Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB MidTerms Prize Competition – did you get closest to the

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited November 8 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB MidTerms Prize Competition – did you get closest to the O’Rourke vote share?

Exactly a month ago we launched the PB Prize Midterms competition with the question being:

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,756
    Bah, I had 48.16 but then I got misled about some Libertarian and went down to 47.56. I should have stuck to my guns.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,756
    Oh and is that a provisional first, Vanilla permitting?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,280
    Looks like a photo-finish between:

    bookseller: 48.35 and
    YBarddCwsc: 48.28

    With the former just nosing it.

    Didn't do too badly on 48.52......
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,832

    Looks like a photo-finish between:

    bookseller: 48.35 and
    YBarddCwsc: 48.28

    With the former just nosing it.

    Didn't do too badly on 48.52......

    I agree I just checked that !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845
    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,832
    So thats three of us who agree¬!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,978
    Good morning, everyone.

    Bad luck, Mr. Cwsc, and congratulations to Mr. Bookseller.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    FTPT
    Nigelb said:

    The AG has the legal authority to share details of Grand Jury investigations with the President:
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/11/07/matt-whitaker-has-authority-to-share-proceedings-of-national-security-grand-jury-investigations-with-trump/

    Without any paper trail.

    Trump,just appointed an acting AG , who judging by his previous comments is a tool of the president, without the usual Senate oversight (which would have ben required had Sessions been formally sacked rather than bowing to pressure to resign.

    I'm beginning to wonder if Sessions was on the indictment list and so by resigning he's effectively shutting down the investigation before he gets charged.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,551
    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,058
    Having watched Sadiq Khan on TV this morning with his response to the crime ridden streets of the City that he his mayor of, I can't get over what a terrible mayor he is. I don't understand why he is so highly rated. He is awful. Boris was different class to him and that must be the ultimate affront to his ability.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845
    Interestingly Tester has extended his lead beyond that which the New York Times originally predicted. It looks like his final margin will be 3.5%.

    Interesting but historical news you may say - well not entirely. The Arizona race could follow the same script, with first a slightly widening GOP lead - but as the slower counting Dem city areas (The counties in Az are very large so probably not entirely homogenous) come in,... personally I think it will tighten.

    I have £20 at even money on Sinema and I don't believe the bet is dead yet !

    Let's see.

    Arizona is very very slow at counting too so this will take a while.
  • PlankPlank Posts: 57

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Looks like the Republicans are worried too.

    https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/07/arizona-senate-republicans-sue-county-recorders-election-martha-mcsally-kyrsten-sinema-adrian-fontes/1925719002/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    Multiple law type people are suggesting then new acting AG may not have been legally appointed



    That would probably upgrade Trump to obstruction of justice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,501
    edited November 8
    Pulpstar said:

    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28

    48.78. Close, but no cigar! Thought the Libertarian would get a lot more, too!
    Congrats Mr Bookseller!!!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,737
    @Bookseller won and I've got his email from his Vanilla data and have contacted him.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,737

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    FiveThirtyEight was forecasting that the GOP would hold the House at 0130 yesterday
  • PlankPlank Posts: 57
    Pulpstar said:

    Interestingly Tester has extended his lead beyond that which the New York Times originally predicted. It looks like his final margin will be 3.5%.

    Interesting but historical news you may say - well not entirely. The Arizona race could follow the same script, with first a slightly widening GOP lead - but as the slower counting Dem city areas (The counties in Az are very large so probably not entirely homogenous) come in,... personally I think it will tighten.

    I have £20 at even money on Sinema and I don't believe the bet is dead yet !

    Let's see.

    Arizona is very very slow at counting too so this will take a while.

    538 say TCTC

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-16-races-still-too-close-to-call/

    Dems currently at 6.2 on betfair

    (In the interest of clarity I am on for small stakes, at lower odds, from a previous bet).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,145

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Is Arizona now a better prospect for the Democrats than Florida?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 2,319
    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    You can both be a hero and an idiot, an intellectual titan and a bigot.

    Those tweets are the kind of intellectual black and white box fitting exercise that I thought the 'free thinking' right despised.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,256
    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,203
    Alistair said:

    Multiple law type people are suggesting then new acting AG may not have been legally appointed



    That would probably upgrade Trump to obstruction of justice.

    Constitutionally conscientious ? We’re talking about a wrecking ball.

    If Mueller has evidence, then I suspect he’ll be trying to get it out in public (via indicting & requesting a judge unseal the evidence) asap.

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 2,565
    currystar said:

    Having watched Sadiq Khan on TV this morning with his response to the crime ridden streets of the City that he his mayor of, I can't get over what a terrible mayor he is. I don't understand why he is so highly rated. He is awful. Boris was different class to him and that must be the ultimate affront to his ability.

    Crime ridden streets of the city (note lower case not upper case)?

    Utter hyperbole.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,145
    Dutchman launches legal action to reduce his age from 69 to 49 and improve his employment and Tinder chances

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46133262
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,280
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
    Evidently not. Moral absolutists have such a simple life, bereft of shades of grey. Man labours over many years behind the Iron Curtain at personal risk to himself, but his view on foxes puts him beyond the pale.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,280
    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 18,043

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
    Evidently not. Moral absolutists have such a simple life, bereft of shades of grey. Man labours over many years behind the Iron Curtain at personal risk to himself, but his view on foxes puts him beyond the pale.
    not so much moral absolutism as moral pick and mix

  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,551
    Alistair said:

    Multiple law type people are suggesting then new acting AG may not have been legally appointed



    That would probably upgrade Trump to obstruction of justice.

    HYUFD said:

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Is Arizona now a better prospect for the Democrats than Florida?
    Yes, almost certainly.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 2,565

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
    Evidently not. Moral absolutists have such a simple life, bereft of shades of grey. Man labours over many years behind the Iron Curtain at personal risk to himself, but his view on foxes puts him beyond the pale.
    Yes, believe it or not, the fact that is in favour of chasing terrified wild animals across fields, then setting on them with a pack of bloodthirsty dogs until their skin and limbs are torn from them while they are still alive, tends to colour some people's view of him.

    Who knew?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,203

    Alistair said:

    Multiple law type people are suggesting then new acting AG may not have been legally appointed



    That would probably upgrade Trump to obstruction of justice.

    HYUFD said:

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Is Arizona now a better prospect for the Democrats than Florida?
    Yes, almost certainly.
    But it pales into insignificance in electoral terms for presidential elections.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    edited November 8

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 860
    currystar said:
    I did find it a strange interview. To be fair to Davis and his record it was apparent when the Chequers plan came out that he was Brexit Secretary in name only. I do find Humphreys a funny interviewer - Not picking up Davis on his record but then sticking to premeditated questions like questioning Davis on his assertion that the would be frictionless WTO trade on day 1 when he had just said the opposite.

    With regards to the latest proposal it May wants to bring it to parliament then I cannot see anything but defeat. I can only assume that May has decided it will be better to negotiate after a defeat rather than with the EU demanding more and more unrealistic outcomes.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 18,043
    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolution its have it so easy.
    yes but he didnt go fox hunting so must be a good guy
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,418
    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 197

    Pulpstar said:

    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28

    48.78. Close, but no cigar! Thought the Libertarian would get a lot more, too!
    Congrats Mr Bookseller!!!
    Blimey. I am now desperately trying to reverse engineer my thought processes at the time I entered so that I can claim anything other than blind luck. I believe I looked at two or three estimates from PB regulars I trust and then made my own adjustments.

    I am ludicrously excited about winning and receiving the book. Thanks to Mike and everyone for maintaining such an excellent site. In lieu of a victory speech, can I just say that my own political views and engagement has been significantly deepened by years of 'lurking' and (occasional) posting on this site, and that is to the credit of everyone who contributes. It's becoming increasingly important to have somewhere where - though some of us profoundly disagree with each other - we can engage in robust political debate and banter, in a world getting more partisan by the day, and yet - paraphrasing Ben Goldacre - "it’s a bit more complicated than that".

    Thank you :smile:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 18,043
    edited November 8
    Scott_P said:
    odd that the two 2005 prospective Tory leaders both have massive screwups to their names

    the two Daves could be the successors to the two Ronnies
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 2,319
    DD was being touted as a caretaker PM about 3 weeks ago. Which might have actually been 15 minutes or a year due to Brexit time dilation effects.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    edited November 8
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
    Ah, so there's a point where someone goes from a goody to a baddy then. Left of the line they are a universal goody and we ignore the animal cruelty and bigotry but to the right they are a baddy where everything good they did is forgotten.

    No shades of gray, got it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,418

    Pulpstar said:

    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28

    48.78. Close, but no cigar! Thought the Libertarian would get a lot more, too!
    Congrats Mr Bookseller!!!
    Blimey. I am now desperately trying to reverse engineer my thought processes at the time I entered so that I can claim anything other than blind luck. I believe I looked at two or three estimates from PB regulars I trust and then made my own adjustments.

    I am ludicrously excited about winning and receiving the book. Thanks to Mike and everyone for maintaining such an excellent site. In lieu of a victory speech, can I just say that my own political views and engagement has been significantly deepened by years of 'lurking' and (occasional) posting on this site, and that is to the credit of everyone who contributes. It's becoming increasingly important to have somewhere where - though some of us profoundly disagree with each other - we can engage in robust political debate and banter, in a world getting more partisan by the day, and yet - paraphrasing Ben Goldacre - "it’s a bit more complicated than that".

    Thank you :smile:
    Did you think O'Rourke would win with that score?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845
    Plank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Interestingly Tester has extended his lead beyond that which the New York Times originally predicted. It looks like his final margin will be 3.5%.

    Interesting but historical news you may say - well not entirely. The Arizona race could follow the same script, with first a slightly widening GOP lead - but as the slower counting Dem city areas (The counties in Az are very large so probably not entirely homogenous) come in,... personally I think it will tighten.

    I have £20 at even money on Sinema and I don't believe the bet is dead yet !

    Let's see.

    Arizona is very very slow at counting too so this will take a while.

    538 say TCTC

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-16-races-still-too-close-to-call/

    Dems currently at 6.2 on betfair

    (In the interest of clarity I am on for small stakes, at lower odds, from a previous bet).
    I've topped up slightly to -28/+67.38
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,418
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
    Ah, so there's a point where someone goes from a goody to a baddy then. Left of the line they are a universal goody and we ignore the animal cruelty and bigotry but to the right they are a baddy where everything good they did is forgotten.

    No shades of gray, got it.
    No, there are shades of gray, that's the point. But I'd have thought those two things are very much at different ends of the scale. I'm struggling to think of anything worse than collaborating with Nazis and sending people to their death.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,705
    edited November 8
    I wonder what @bookseller might do with the book once they receive it?!?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,993
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
    Evidently not. Moral absolutists have such a simple life, bereft of shades of grey. Man labours over many years behind the Iron Curtain at personal risk to himself, but his view on foxes puts him beyond the pale.
    Yes, believe it or not, the fact that is in favour of chasing terrified wild animals across fields, then setting on them with a pack of bloodthirsty dogs until their skin and limbs are torn from them while they are still alive, tends to colour some people's view of him.

    Who knew?
    The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.

    Fox hunting? Meh.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
    Ah, so there's a point where someone goes from a goody to a baddy then. Left of the line they are a universal goody and we ignore the animal cruelty and bigotry but to the right they are a baddy where everything good they did is forgotten.

    No shades of gray, got it.
    No, there are shades of gray, that's the point. But I'd have thought those two things are very much at different ends of the scale. I'm struggling to think of anything worse than collaborating with Nazis and sending people to their death.
    Pineapple on pizza.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 1,628
    Dura_Ace said:

    DD was being touted as a caretaker PM about 3 weeks ago. Which might have actually been 15 minutes or a year due to Brexit time dilation effects.

    The comments from Raab and Davis in this thread show perfectly the combination of ignorance, arrogance and lack of realism which pervades the whole Leave prospectus. It's beyond believe that Raab can claim he did not know how dependent the UK is on cross-channel trade and Davis's lack of self-awareness is staggering - the idea that this man is a serious leadership contender shows is symptomatic of the fantasy world in which most senior politicians seem to exist these days.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 2,319
    edited November 8
    But the UK never produced a legal text setting out what it thought the joint report meant. The EU did, and in doing so set the terms for future negotiation.

    Is this bit true? Was it DD busking it as usual?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 1,756
    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,737

    Pulpstar said:

    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28

    48.78. Close, but no cigar! Thought the Libertarian would get a lot more, too!
    Congrats Mr Bookseller!!!
    Blimey. I am now desperately trying to reverse engineer my thought processes at the time I entered so that I can claim anything other than blind luck. I believe I looked at two or three estimates from PB regulars I trust and then made my own adjustments.

    I am ludicrously excited about winning and receiving the book. Thanks to Mike and everyone for maintaining such an excellent site. In lieu of a victory speech, can I just say that my own political views and engagement has been significantly deepened by years of 'lurking' and (occasional) posting on this site, and that is to the credit of everyone who contributes. It's becoming increasingly important to have somewhere where - though some of us profoundly disagree with each other - we can engage in robust political debate and banter, in a world getting more partisan by the day, and yet - paraphrasing Ben Goldacre - "it’s a bit more complicated than that".

    Thank you :smile:
    Well done. I have forwarded your details to the publisher who should send you the prize.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 15,074
    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    Tally ho away.

    Helluva chip there, flyboy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,280
    MattW said:

    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Scruton is virulently pro fox hunting so he can go and fuck himself. Twice in all holes.
    It is not possible that someone might be very wrong on some issues while being admirable in others And undeserving of complete condemnation?
    Evidently not. Moral absolutists have such a simple life, bereft of shades of grey. Man labours over many years behind the Iron Curtain at personal risk to himself, but his view on foxes puts him beyond the pale.
    Yes, believe it or not, the fact that is in favour of chasing terrified wild animals across fields, then setting on them with a pack of bloodthirsty dogs until their skin and limbs are torn from them while they are still alive, tends to colour some people's view of him.

    Who knew?
    The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.

    Fox hunting? Meh.
    Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:

    “Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.

    “Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions.

    “If people actually read my comments regarding the interplay between George Soros and Hungary they will realise they are not in any way anti-Semitic, indeed quite the opposite.

    “Only two years ago I supported George Soros by making representations to Prime Minister Orban’s regime to keep open the Central European University so that intellectual freedom could continue to flourish in Hungary.

    “My statements on Islamic states points only to the failure of these states, which is a fact. My views on Islam are well known and can be found in my book The West And The Rest.”


    https://www.roger-scruton.com/articles/20-latest/550-statement-from-professor-sir-roger-scruton
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,111
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
    Ah, so there's a point where someone goes from a goody to a baddy then. Left of the line they are a universal goody and we ignore the animal cruelty and bigotry but to the right they are a baddy where everything good they did is forgotten.

    No shades of gray, got it.
    No, there are shades of gray, that's the point. But I'd have thought those two things are very much at different ends of the scale. I'm struggling to think of anything worse than collaborating with Nazis and sending people to their death.
    Pineapple on pizza.
    Jokes about pineaple on pizza on a thread about collaborating with Nazis and sending people to their death?
  • Congratulations Bookseller.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,111

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Next week, Emmanuel Macron sets off on a crusade to get a statue of Jimmy Saville erected in Westminster "in tribute to his excellent charity work....."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,587
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    Emmanuel Macron has announced that Marshal Philippe Pétain, the Nazi collaborator whose administration helped deport of tens of thousands of French Jews to death camps, will be honoured a centenary tribute because he “was a great soldier in World War One.”

    France’s leading Jewish organisation, Crif, said it was “shocked” at the decision, which the French President announced on Wednesday.

    “I consider it entirely legitimate that we pay homage to the marshals who led our army to victory,” Mr Macron said.

    “Marshal Pétain was a great soldier in World War One.”...

    After the war, Pétain was tried and convicted for treason. His death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his age and First World War service. He died in 1951.


    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shock-emmanuel-macron-announces-french-nazi-marshal-pétain-honoured-first-world-war-service-1.472148

    Man fights heroically for his country's freedom at great personal risk and then collaborates with the Nazi's just one time and suddenly he is beyond the pale. Moral absolutists have such a simple life.
    You're actually comparing sending thousands of people to their death with support for hunting foxes with dogs?
    Ah, so there's a point where someone goes from a goody to a baddy then. Left of the line they are a universal goody and we ignore the animal cruelty and bigotry but to the right they are a baddy where everything good they did is forgotten.

    No shades of gray, got it.
    No, there are shades of gray, that's the point. But I'd have thought those two things are very much at different ends of the scale. I'm struggling to think of anything worse than collaborating with Nazis and sending people to their death.
    Collaborating with Stalin and sending people to their death? Or 'bout the same?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,111
    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,587
    Alistair said:

    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.

    'You're a wretchedly selective moral relativist, I'm a wise perceiver of nuance.'
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,280
    Dura_Ace said:

    But the UK never produced a legal text setting out what it thought the joint report meant. The EU did, and in doing so set the terms for future negotiation.

    Is this bit true? Was it DD busking it as usual?
    Yep. It was a shocking dereliction - either Number 10 or DEXEU should have pulled one together pronto and got in first.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,418
    Alistair said:

    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.

    Sorry, I did guess that. I'm intrigued to know why Macron is doing this. Is there a campaign for him to be honoured?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,355

    MattW said:

    Anazina said:
    The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.

    Fox hunting? Meh.
    Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:

    “Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.

    “Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions.

    “If people actually read my comments regarding the interplay between George Soros and Hungary they will realise they are not in any way anti-Semitic, indeed quite the opposite.

    “Only two years ago I supported George Soros by making representations to Prime Minister Orban’s regime to keep open the Central European University so that intellectual freedom could continue to flourish in Hungary.

    “My statements on Islamic states points only to the failure of these states, which is a fact. My views on Islam are well known and can be found in my book The West And The Rest.”


    https://www.roger-scruton.com/articles/20-latest/550-statement-from-professor-sir-roger-scruton
    The next assault on him will be his views on date rape.

    It is all very depressing. All of us are a mixture of good and bad. The very same people who refuse to accept any fault at all in Corbyn over his attitudes to Jews and anti-semitism are all too willing to lob accusations of fascism and anti-semitism at people for not sharing a "received opinion". Most of the people who make these sorts of accusations are almost certainly guilty of the same sort of behaviour they condemn. Look at the vegan lady who received those stupid emails from the Waitrose editor. It turned out that she said "Good!" when seven people died in a Spanish bull run. Celebrating the death of people is, IMO, far more worthy of condemnation than an utterly bad taste joke. Why is it any less worthy of condemnation, for instance, than those idiots burning a model Grenfell Tower last week?

    This sort of behaviour is utterly infantile, quite frightening in its implications and far too similar to the sort of behaviour exhibited like Trump for comfort.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,246
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.

    Sorry, I did guess that. I'm intrigued to know why Macron is doing this. Is there a campaign for him to be honoured?
    No clue, it does seem utterly perplexing to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 69,764
    edited November 8
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.

    Sorry, I did guess that. I'm intrigued to know why Macron is doing this. Is there a campaign for him to be honoured?
    Other French Presidents have honoured The Lion of Verdun, notably de Gaulle and Mitterrand.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,203

    Dura_Ace said:

    But the UK never produced a legal text setting out what it thought the joint report meant. The EU did, and in doing so set the terms for future negotiation.

    Is this bit true? Was it DD busking it as usual?
    Yep. It was a shocking dereliction - either Number 10 or DEXEU should have pulled one together pronto and got in first.
    A couple of snippets from surprisingly good article...
    if there is no deal, 80 per cent of the customs duties will go to the European Commission itself rather than the member states....

    ...In France, he’d be fighting against the pro-Brexit Marine Le Pen — one recent poll has her party on course to defeat Macron’s En Marche. It would, politically, help Macron to be able to point to how leaving the EU brings stagnation, not freedom. His team imagine pictures of a gridlocked Kent are to their political benefit. They believe they could use them as proof that populism comes at a price. They are, I understand, sanguine about the likely impact on Anglo-French relations....

    That Raab is only now waking up to the problems is a telling demonstration of just how limited discussion of Brexit scenarios has been within the government.
    PB has probably done a better job, for all the coatis tedium of Brexit arguments on here.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,355
    tlg86 said:

    Alistair said:

    As it happens I think honoring the memory of a Nazi collaborator is a bad thing but I was highly amused by the proximity of Carlotta's posts.

    Sorry, I did guess that. I'm intrigued to know why Macron is doing this. Is there a campaign for him to be honoured?
    French Presidents have always had a somewhat "blind eye" approach to the reality of what France actually did between 1939 - 1945. Only Chirac was willing to come close to confronting it and apologising for it.

    Mitterand refused to and it is perhaps worth remembering that Macron started out in the Socialists as a protege of Hollande. But this ambiguous view of its own past is something which cuts across the whole political spectrum in France.

    See this "Even her recent statement that it was not France which rounded up Jews during the war but the Vichy regime, as if the latter had nothing to do with France, was no different to the justification given by President Mitterand (whose activities during the pre-war and early Vichy period did him no credit) for refusing to give an official apology to French Jews for what France did to them. “I will not apologise in the name of France,” he said in 1994. “The Republic had nothing to do with this. I do not believe France is responsible.” A sentiment echoed almost word for word by Le Pen in recent days. Still, given that President Chirac apologised on behalf of France in 1995, it is troubling – and disgraceful – that over two decades later Le Pen still uses the same sophistry used decades earlier by post-war politicians who, to be generous, needed a polite fiction to help heal a wounded nation."

    in this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/04/30/the-death-of-populism/
  • The laying of flowers on Maréchal Philippe Pétain's tomb from 1984 to 1991 has caused much controversy. Under the presidency of de Gaulle, Pétain's tomb was decorated with flowers in the president's name on 10 November 1968 for the 50th anniversary of the 1918 armistice[17][18][19] and again in February 1973 (under Georges Pompidou), following attacks on the tomb at L'Île-d'Yeu and once more in 1978 (under Valéry Giscard d'Estaing), for the 60th anniversary of the victory in 1918.

    During Mitterrand's presidency, the grave was decorated with flowers 22 September 1984 (the day Mitterrand met Helmut Kohl at Verdun),[20] then on 15 June 1986 (70th anniversary of the Battle for Verdun) and every 11 November from 1987 to 1992. The practice stopped only after numerous protests from the Jewish community.[21]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitterrand_and_the_far_right
  • It is the 100th anniversary of the ending of WWI, you cannot remember it without making reference to Pétain and his influence.
  • To use a British example we’re not honouring Roald Dahl because ot his anti Semitism.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,090

    Pulpstar said:

    i) @Bookseller, 48.35
    ii) @YBarddCwsc, 48.28

    48.78. Close, but no cigar! Thought the Libertarian would get a lot more, too!
    Congrats Mr Bookseller!!!
    Blimey. I am now desperately trying to reverse engineer my thought processes at the time I entered so that I can claim anything other than blind luck. I believe I looked at two or three estimates from PB regulars I trust and then made my own adjustments.

    I am ludicrously excited about winning and receiving the book. Thanks to Mike and everyone for maintaining such an excellent site. In lieu of a victory speech, can I just say that my own political views and engagement has been significantly deepened by years of 'lurking' and (occasional) posting on this site, and that is to the credit of everyone who contributes. It's becoming increasingly important to have somewhere where - though some of us profoundly disagree with each other - we can engage in robust political debate and banter, in a world getting more partisan by the day, and yet - paraphrasing Ben Goldacre - "it’s a bit more complicated than that".

    Thank you :smile:
    Well said Sir, and congratulations. No shame in taking the wisdom of others and improving on it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,355

    To use a British example we’re not honouring Roald Dahl because ot his anti Semitism.

    There would be an interesting Venn diagram to be drawn of those who say that Roald Dahl should not be honoured because of his anti-semitism and those voting Labour despite (or perhaps because of) its problems with anti-semitism.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,065
    HYUFD said:

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Is Arizona now a better prospect for the Democrats than Florida?
    Anyone know the confirmed Arizona result?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 17,325
    Great quote in the header.

    Have the Dems found the new RFK?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 8,122
    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
    The NYT's projection is still 7% though
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845
    edited November 8

    HYUFD said:

    FiveThirtyEight forecasting a net GOP change of +2 Senate seats, implying they think the Dems will win Arizona.

    Is Arizona now a better prospect for the Democrats than Florida?
    Anyone know the confirmed Arizona result?
    It's not confirmed. Sinema has a real chance still, see my posts throughout the thread.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845

    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
    The NYT's projection is still 7% though
    Late late ballots on the west coast :)
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,065
    From NYTimes.Arizona.
    Martha McSally
    Republican
    856,848 49.4%
    Kyrsten Sinema
    Democrat
    839,775 48.4
    Angela Green
    Green
    38,978 2.2

    Blast,damn and bollocks.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,355

    It is the 100th anniversary of the ending of WWI, you cannot remember it without making reference to Pétain and his influence.


    You can make reference to the battle of Verdun and have some ceremony at the battlefield. It is not necessary to do so at Petain's grave. But this is for the French to decide and the French have had a difficult history in the 20th century to come to terms with.

    We simply need to accept that very talented people who have often done a great deal of good in one part of at one time in their lives can also have unpalatable views and have done bad things as well. It's what being human is.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 8,122
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
    The NYT's projection is still 7% though
    Late late ballots on the west coast :)
    how does it handle uncontested seats - most of which would have been 80/20 Dem/Rep?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 27,425
    Has this been posted? These quotes from Raab surely can’t be genuine.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845

    From NYTimes.Arizona.
    Martha McSally
    Republican
    856,848 49.4%
    Kyrsten Sinema
    Democrat
    839,775 48.4
    Angela Green
    Green
    38,978 2.2

    Blast,damn and bollocks.

    Those aren't the final totals. Plenty of ballots to come.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,845

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
    The NYT's projection is still 7% though
    Late late ballots on the west coast :)
    how does it handle uncontested seats - most of which would have been 80/20 Dem/Rep?
    I'm not sure - California's senate race is also slightly more democrat than it would be in presidential election.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 17,325
    "The Democrats won the popular vote by 7pc at the absolute apogee of a Republican fiscal boom."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/07/trumps-reckless-economic-gamble-has-failed-political-noose-tightening/
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 1,191
    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    Apologies if discussed already but I believe the generic Dem lead is around 7% so the notion that some subscribed to that Rasmussen had got their polling right when everyone else was wrong can be filed in the bin. Back to being the joke Republican-ramping pollster for them I'm afraid

    File under "why do they bother?"
    It is currently 4.1% in the house ?!
    538 are currently projecting a 37 seat Dem gain in the House. In their final pre-election forecasts of 2 days ago (still on their main site) they were predicting 39 House seat Dem gains which was consistent with a 9% lead in the generic polls.

    The implication of that is that the actual lead in the popular vote must be around 7% or 8%, once you make the necessary adjustments e.g. for seats that were uncontested.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 39,277

    Has this been posted? These quotes from Raab surely can’t be genuine.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,111

    From NYTimes.Arizona.
    Martha McSally
    Republican
    856,848 49.4%
    Kyrsten Sinema
    Democrat
    839,775 48.4
    Angela Green
    Green
    38,978 2.2

    Blast,damn and bollocks.

    Looks like the Green might have cost the Dems the seat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,203
    edited November 8
    Cyclefree said:

    MattW said:



    The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.

    Fox hunting? Meh.

    Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:

    “Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.

    “Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions...”


    https://www.roger-scruton.com/articles/20-latest/550-statement-from-professor-sir-roger-scruton
    The next assault on him will be his views on date rape.

    It is all very depressing. All of us are a mixture of good and bad. The very same people who refuse to accept any fault at all in Corbyn over his attitudes to Jews and anti-semitism are all too willing to lob accusations of fascism and anti-semitism at people for not sharing a "received opinion". Most of the people who make these sorts of accusations are almost certainly guilty of the same sort of behaviour they condemn. Look at the vegan lady who received those stupid emails from the Waitrose editor. It turned out that she said "Good!" when seven people died in a Spanish bull run. Celebrating the death of people is, IMO, far more worthy of condemnation than an utterly bad taste joke. Why is it any less worthy of condemnation, for instance, than those idiots burning a model Grenfell Tower last week?

    This sort of behaviour is utterly infantile, quite frightening in its implications and far too similar to the sort of behaviour exhibited like Trump for comfort.
    I tend to agree.
    If the post to which he was being appointed had anything to do with social policy, I could entirely understand why he might be thought a totally unsuitable choice. His is, to put it politely, a bit of a plonker, with decidedly eccentric, and erratically argued philosophical views.
    But the built environment ?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/753671/Building_Better_Commission_Submission_-_ToR.pdf
    I'm not sure how much of an expert he is on this, but he has at least published on the subject, albeit quite some time ago.
    Set against that, surely the chair of anything has to be some sort of consensus figure, and I can see the argument for his not being a great choice to lead something like this, as opposed to contribute to it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,587

    From NYTimes.Arizona.
    Martha McSally
    Republican
    856,848 49.4%
    Kyrsten Sinema
    Democrat
    839,775 48.4
    Angela Green
    Green
    38,978 2.2

    Blast,damn and bollocks.

    Looks like the Green might have cost the Dems the seat.
    Did I read somewhere that Green had withdrawn & endorsed Sinema, but her name couldn't be taken off the ballot at that stage?
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,985
    Cyclefree said:

    MattW said:

    Anazina said:
    The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.

    Fox hunting? Meh.
    Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:

    “Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.

    “Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions.

    “If people actually read my comments regarding the interplay between George Soros and Hungary they will realise they are not in any way anti-Semitic, indeed quite the opposite.

    “Only two years ago I supported George Soros by making representations to Prime Minister Orban’s regime to keep open the Central European University so that intellectual freedom could continue to flourish in Hungary.

    “My statements on Islamic states points only to the failure of these states, which is a fact. My views on Islam are well known and can be found in my book The West And The Rest.”


    https://www.roger-scruton.com/articles/20-latest/550-statement-from-professor-sir-roger-scruton
    The next assault on him will be his views on date rape.

    It is all very depressing. All of us are a mixture of good and bad. The very same people who refuse to accept any fault at all in Corbyn over his attitudes to Jews and anti-semitism are all too willing to lob accusations of fascism and anti-semitism at people for not sharing a "received opinion". Most of the people who make these sorts of accusations are almost certainly guilty of the same sort of behaviour they condemn. Look at the vegan lady who received those stupid emails from the Waitrose editor. It turned out that she said "Good!" when seven people died in a Spanish bull run. Celebrating the death of people is, IMO, far more worthy of condemnation than an utterly bad taste joke. Why is it any less worthy of condemnation, for instance, than those idiots burning a model Grenfell Tower last week?

    This sort of behaviour is utterly infantile, quite frightening in its implications and far too similar to the sort of behaviour exhibited like Trump for comfort.
    We are all Trumpers now?
This discussion has been closed.