There is a few hundred quid available to back 53 Republican Senate seats. This seems like a guaranteed 4% return on your money given that both Dems have conceded for a second time.
It's a 4% return based on the Mississippi run off not delivering a huge upset.
Oh, of course, had completely forgotten about the runoff, presumably because I must have mentally filed it as a certainty.
I suppose after the hanging comments and the video tape of the candidate approving of targeted voter suppression against Dems that reduces the chance of a guaranteed GOP win down a fraction.
Geoffrey Cox putting out feelers for his leadership bid.
Well if they need someone to try to get a few tweaks then sell it as something remarkable perhaps his enchanting voice will sway the persuadable even if little has changed.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
Just published by the DT: Senior Conservatives are in talks with opposition MPs over a "fallback plan" for Brexit in the belief Theresa May's deal will be voted down in the Commons.
Influential former ministers are drawing up plans to put a Norway-style deal with the EU to a Commons vote in an emergency motion days after an expected defeat in the "meaningful vote" on her plan.
Nandy and Flint etc ie Labour MPs in Leave seats may vote for May's Deal but they will vote against a Norway-style deal as it needs free movement
Out of interest, has any Labour MP come out publicly to say they will vote for this deal? Not a theoretical one, but this one?
Flint has but they will not vote for Norway style Deal which would totally betray their constitutents' vote to end free movement
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Should May prevail in a leadership contest, then the Tories have no chance of getting rid of her in order to restore their working parliamentary majority with the support of the DUP. A lost vote of no confidence in parliament then looms.
Those Tory MPs intending to vote for her in the forthcoming leadership ballot should ask themselves whether they are up for an unplanned general election when they are down to 36% in the latest poll.
My point was that, if May goes as PM, then the Tories have their working parliamentary majority back so there is no risk of an imminent general election which Corbyn might win.
On the other hand, confidence and supply will end while May remains as PM. So, there is every prospect of the Government losing a confidence vote in parliament with May as PM. May would not resign, the Tory Party could not force her to (after winning a ballot earlier on her leadership) and so a new Tory leader could not win a new confidence motion in the 14 days period of grace allowed. May would stubborn as ever force her party into contesting an otherwise avoidable general election in which she would be a drag on her party's ratings. Keep Theresa risk Corbyn as PM.
Geoffrey Cox putting out feelers for his leadership bid.
Well if they need someone to try to get a few tweaks then sell it as something remarkable perhaps his enchanting voice will sway the persuadable even if little has changed.
Never underestimate the qualities of a Cambridge educated lawyer.
OT thanks for all the 'welcome backs' from everyone. I am afraid my return counts as something as a personal failure as, rather like smoking, I had come to consider PB as a vice I needed to give up.
Unlike smoking I have been unable to maintain my resolve.
Good for you on smoking. I stopped 15 years ago when my first grandchild was born and have since developed mild copd. My practice nurse said that decision has saved my life
I was convinced on that when I saw the statistic that non-smokers live an average of TEN YEARS longer. I know there may be intervening variables contributing (if smokers tend to have other unhealthy habits on average) but it's pretty damn persuasive IMO.
Should May prevail in a leadership contest, then the Tories have no chance of getting rid of her in order to restore their working parliamentary majority with the support of the DUP. A lost vote of no confidence in parliament then looms.
Those Tory MPs intending to vote for her in the forthcoming leadership ballot should ask themselves whether they are up for an unplanned general election when they are down to 36% in the latest poll.
I should have thought the opposite was the case based upon the last General Election, the reaction to Chequers and the total lack of any domestic policy agenda. Stick with May and a Corbyn Gov becomes a racing certainty.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, is a racing certainty
Last weeks Scots poll showed labour down from 7 to 1 seat in Scotland and falls in conservative seats
Anyone who says they know the results of the next GE are either making a partisan statement or more likely whistling in the wind
Actually, if May gets her deal through Parliament (and I have a sneaking feeling she will eventually) one of the more entertaining consequences will be playing back all the pundits who have confidently asserted that she won't. Starting with Peston...
Peston’s never weaker than when he’s relying on his own views. I’m hugely impressed by his progress given his reputation was built on being little more than the mouthpiece for Brown and Balls.
He is wrong more often than Rogerdamus....
What's Peston's predictions on the Oscars?
I hate to think. Hans Solo Movie for best picture?
I just watched it on Blu-Ray this evening
My commiserations. I do hope you recover from whatever serious illness you have very soon.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Quite.
Not sure if this got the audience it deserved at the time
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
I can usually understand the point of view of others even if I do not agree with it, but on this one I get totally baffled - Raab and co show the course for people who think the deal is not good enough and that it could be amended, and that is to argue the case from the outside. We're not at the 'behind closed doors let's formulate policy stage' the PM is publicly stating 'It is this or nothing' and people ostensibly in support of her are openly contradicting that.
I don't see that it helps her, and in any case helping her is not the point - the point is helping the nation, and if they believe that requires a new deal, it also requires a new leader. That's an honourable position to take.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
That is not possible though, given the respective party strengths, and the result of the referendum. UUP were officially for Remain.
I'm still not sure where the talk of a snap election comes from. Under the FTP Act May can't call one if the backbenchers won't vote for it, and the DUP are free to vote against the deal without risking an election.
Indeed, May is more likely to call EUref2 if her Deal fails in my view than a general election and EUref2 has more chance of passing the Commons
May said again this week that there'll be no second referendum. She's now said that an awful lot of times. If you think she'll call a second referendum what do you think the question will be?
She said the same about a general election, she said the same about the customs union, what is clear is if the circumstances change so do May's 'red lines.'
The question would be straight Remain v Leave with No Deal given the Commons will not pass her Deal.
I expect she would secretly savour Remain winning EUref2 and socking it to the ERG if they vote down her Deal
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Bringing May down would be entirely honourable if he cannot support the deal May says cannot be improved. By saying otherwise he is calling her a liar and pretending he supports her deal when he doesn't. That is not loyalty, it doesn't help her get a deal through.
If he wants to improve the deal (and yes, that would be the best option of getting something passed, if the EU is willing) the option is to support someone else as leader who agrees that they can improve the deal, not call the PM a liar for saying it is her deal or no deal.
Except such a ‘someone’ is entirely mythical. A leadership election would more likely produce either confusion, leading to a no deal Brexit, or a headbanger... leading to a no deal Brexit.
Should May prevail in a leadership contest, then the Tories have no chance of getting rid of her in order to restore their working parliamentary majority with the support of the DUP. A lost vote of no confidence in parliament then looms.
Those Tory MPs intending to vote for her in the forthcoming leadership ballot should ask themselves whether they are up for an unplanned general election when they are down to 36% in the latest poll.
I should have thought the opposite was the case based upon the last General Election, the reaction to Chequers and the total lack of any domestic policy agenda. Stick with May and a Corbyn Gov becomes a racing certainty.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, is a racing certainty
Last weeks Scots poll showed labour down from 7 to 1 seat in Scotland and falls in conservative seats
Anyone who says they know the results of the next GE are either making a partisan statement or more likely whistling in the wind
Actually, if May gets her deal through Parliament (and I have a sneaking feeling she will eventually) one of the more entertaining consequences will be playing back all the pundits who have confidently asserted that she won't. Starting with Peston...
Peston’s never weaker than when he’s relying on his own views. I’m hugely impressed by his progress given his reputation was built on being little more than the mouthpiece for Brown and Balls.
He is wrong more often than Rogerdamus....
What's Peston's predictions on the Oscars?
I hate to think. Hans Solo Movie for best picture?
I just watched it on Blu-Ray this evening
My commiserations. I do hope you recover from whatever serious illness you have very soon.
Better than Rogue One
That's like saying somebody's a better batsman than Chris Martin.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Remainers despise Gove, most Leavers now loathe Gove if the Tories really want to be obliterated at the next general election they will pick him as their next leader. If ever the phrase 'too clever by half' applies to anyone it is Michael Gove. He now makes Mandelson look straight forward and honest
There is a few hundred quid available to back 53 Republican Senate seats. This seems like a guaranteed 4% return on your money given that both Dems have conceded for a second time.
It's a 4% return based on the Mississippi run off not delivering a huge upset.
Oh, of course, had completely forgotten about the runoff, presumably because I must have mentally filed it as a certainty.
I suppose after the hanging comments and the video tape of the candidate approving of targeted voter suppression against Dems that reduces the chance of a guaranteed GOP win down a fraction.
And the perception that it won't change the overall outcome, thus depressing Rep turnout. Not sure that amounts to 4% chance, mind.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
They might be willing to, and he can argue it from outside Cabinet. Are you seriously telling me that the PM saying the Cabinet (as remains) backs her policy does not mean it is government policy? What is the government's policy then? How is it decided what is government policy if the PM saying her Cabinet back X does not count? Why did Raab and McVey resign if what May is saying is not government policy? They could have stayed in place because they don't need to back what the PM says.
It would be more than 7 - you can add Hunt, Gove, Tugendthat, Mercer as well, although I’d drop Rudd if I were you. If May goes, she goes and she is still tainted by Windrush.
The idea that a few tweaks to the agreement and it will suddenly magically be seen as acceptable by the headbangers is fantastical. Time and time again they have made clear that they will not accept any agreement that the EU are willing to give, because they can't conceive that the EU would be willing to give any agreement that doesn't screw the UK. They have no fixed views on what is an acceptable agreement, only that whatever it is won't be something that the EU have willingly offered.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Remainers despise Gove, most Leavers now loathe Gove if the Tories really want to be obliterated at the next general election they will pick him as their next leader. If ever the phrase 'too clever by half' applies to anyone it is Michael Gove. He now makes Mandelson look straight forward and honest
It would be more than 7 - you can add Hunt, Gove, Tugendthat, Mercer as well, although I’d drop Rudd if I were you. If May goes, she goes and she is still tainted by Windrush.
Just relaying the Sunday Times front page. And Hunt is on that list.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Bringing May down would be entirely honourable if he cannot support the deal May says cannot be improved. By saying otherwise he is calling her a liar and pretending he supports her deal when he doesn't. That is not loyalty, it doesn't help her get a deal through.
If he wants to improve the deal (and yes, that would be the best option of getting something passed, if the EU is willing) the option is to support someone else as leader who agrees that they can improve the deal, not call the PM a liar for saying it is her deal or no deal.
Except such a ‘someone’ is entirely mythical. A leadership election would more likely produce either confusion, leading to a no deal Brexit, or a headbanger... leading to a no deal Brexit.
It might. But there seem huge numbers of MPs, not just among the Tories, who think the deal can be amended. That is their main reason for voting down this deal in some cases. If May is the principle block to even trying again then she must go, and we shall see if she will next week. But May says she won't try. And yeah yeah, politician says X then does Y and all that, but the reason she says she won't is at least in part because it is part of the inducement for others to back this as it makes no deal the alternative, so she cannot change her mind on it.
It would be more than 7 - you can add Hunt, Gove, Tugendthat, Mercer as well, although I’d drop Rudd if I were you. If May goes, she goes and she is still tainted by Windrush.
So if Hunt comes first and second, then we don't need a run-off?
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
That is not possible though, given the respective party strengths, and the result of the referendum. UUP were officially for Remain.
I was generalising to one extra level of detail.
Not every DUP UUP voter was leave. Similarly neither were the SF's etc Remain. The Leave proportion was differentially larger in the Unionist returning areas and so their HoC representatives outlook reflects it.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
OT thanks for all the 'welcome backs' from everyone. I am afraid my return counts as something as a personal failure as, rather like smoking, I had come to consider PB as a vice I needed to give up.
Unlike smoking I have been unable to maintain my resolve.
Good for you on smoking. I stopped 15 years ago when my first grandchild was born and have since developed mild copd. My practice nurse said that decision has saved my life
I was convinced on that when I saw the statistic that non-smokers live an average of TEN YEARS longer. I know there may be intervening variables contributing (if smokers tend to have other unhealthy habits on average) but it's pretty damn persuasive IMO.
I had sarcoidosis when I was 30 and subsequently asthma. I smoked on and off about 10 a day despite these problems and my daughter instruction to quit smoking when her daughter was born nearly 16 years ago was the best thing I have done. It was also the most difficult stopping immediately with no aids and going cold turkey
I cannot stand the smell of tobacco nor the clouds from vaping and manage my copd quite well
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Remainers despise Gove, most Leavers now loathe Gove if the Tories really want to be obliterated at the next general election they will pick him as their next leader. If ever the phrase 'too clever by half' applies to anyone it is Michael Gove. He now makes Mandelson look straight forward and honest
I was fairly indifferent toward Gove, and indeed the others, and with Gove I recognise him as someone who seems to put in real effort whereever is and to come up with ideas, not just sit back and do nothing, which I can respect. Now I loathe him and the others in a way I don't think I do any other politicians out there.
NOT, I hasten to add, because they want to renegotiate the deal and thus, by definition, oppose the present deal. There are good reasons to do both. But not to do what they are doing. The sole defense so far seems to be based on accepting that Cabinet Ministers are welcome to do anything they like in opposition to the PM and that this is loyalty somehow, for that is the implication of the defense given.
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
I have seen many cases where reported behaviour and comments has to be judged as to whether someone is acting in specific official capacities or not, and I think a reasonable observer would think the PM announcing something to the House intending it to come to a vote would conclude it was government policy, particularly when a number of the Cabinet resigned because they could not back that policy.
The idea that a few tweaks to the agreement and it will suddenly magically be seen as acceptable by the headbangers is fantastical. Time and time again they have made clear that they will not accept any agreement that the EU are willing to give, because they can't conceive that the EU would be willing to give any agreement that doesn't screw the UK. They have no fixed views on what is an acceptable agreement, only that whatever it is won't be something that the EU have willingly offered.
If leaving is 100% certain in our own hands, that would - I believe - be the one change that would get the Conservative Party back on side.
It's frankly bizarre that May has tried to push her party into a deal that doesn't. It could only ever have one outcome.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Nah. The DUP exists to further the interests of their clients (in the Roman sense)
To date that had been by blackmailing the British government
This is the first time someone has called their bluff
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
Ok, which Cabinet Ministers have spoken out in favour of May's Deal?
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Nah. The DUP exists to further the interests of their clients (in the Roman sense)
To date that had been by blackmailing the British government
This is the first time someone has called their bluff
Brexit insanity has clearly reached its tertiary stage in this case.
The idea that a few tweaks to the agreement and it will suddenly magically be seen as acceptable by the headbangers is fantastical. Time and time again they have made clear that they will not accept any agreement that the EU are willing to give, because they can't conceive that the EU would be willing to give any agreement that doesn't screw the UK. They have no fixed views on what is an acceptable agreement, only that whatever it is won't be something that the EU have willingly offered.
If leaving is 100% certain in our own hands, that would - I believe - be the one change that would get the Conservative Party back on side.
It's frankly bizarre that May has tried to push her party into a deal that doesn't. It could only ever have one outcome.
It's not bizarre. It was the best deal she could get, so she is attempting to push it. Would someone else have done better? Could someone else now get something better even at this late stage? We will have to hope the answer to the latter is yes, and many people will say the answer to the former is an emphatic yes as well. But having achieved what she got of course she attempts to sell it. To not do that would be to admit she could have done better but for some reason didn't.
I said back in September it was time for her to go and someone else to have a last ditch go at it instead, it's remarkable JRM and co decided to give her more time despite her being insistent she would head down a path they don't like, and which clearly the party would not have the votes to pass on its own with the DUP.
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
To be fair Gove has actually been doing his job well, instead of spending all his time maneuvering like some.
The ultimate maneuver. What better way to present yourself as primeminerestry than avoiding the mudslinging of the most important issue of the day and getting on with your day job invisibly.
That's called, doing a Theresa May after her EuRef performance.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
Ok, which Cabinet Ministers have spoken out in favour of May's Deal?
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
Ok, which Cabinet Ministers have spoken out in favour of May's Deal?
None I know of, which they deserve criticism for, since if they support it they should be trying to sell it. But not doing a good job being vocally in support of government policy is not the same thing as openly acting in contradiction to government policy. I don't remember every Cabinet Minister speaking in support of every government policy that exists, but it is still accepted that policy exists. Is there an upper limit here? If the PM and Chancellor say something is their policy but no one else really comments is that government policy? If the Justice Minister doesn't comment on a new proposal from the PM around Transport issues is that still government policy? He didn't confirm it, maybe it was just an idea the PM had.
I imagine Javid, Hunt and most of the rest are being cowardly and that when a no confidence vote comes they may or may not vote for May, but if it forces her out (either because she loses or there are just too many against despite her winning for her to carry on) that they will agree to back some new leader (hopefully themselves) on the Gove/Leadsome etc plan.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
I have seen many cases where reported behaviour and comments has to be judged as to whether someone is acting in specific official capacities or not, and I think a reasonable observer would think the PM announcing something to the House intending it to come to a vote would conclude it was government policy, particularly when a number of the Cabinet resigned because they could not back that policy.
Come come, todays Tory party has moved beyond that, the idea that the PM is in charge of the government is so last year. This work has been put out to tender and the contract was awarded to the craziest bidder, the ERG.
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
Boris has been quite invisible lately.....
He's been focussing on a different type of withdrawal method.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only if MrsMay's 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
Ok, which Cabinet Ministers have spoken out in favour of May's Deal?
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
Ok, which Cabinet Ministers have spoken out in favour of May's Deal?
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
There's something seriously wrong with this country if the next PM comes down to a choice from that list.
Well there's a small pool to choose from, even restricted to every Tory MP who might conceivably dream of it, however improbably.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
Boris has been quite invisible lately.....
Yes, that is odd. My guess is he recognises May is going down, he doesn't need to go overboard in leading the charge or anything, and he can make his pitch to his fellows when the time comes having been as reluctant as all of them to have gotten to this place, I am sure.
I'm hoping Jo Johnson gets it ahead of him - that would be hilarious.
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
Gove knifed Cameron by backing Leave and then Johnson over his leadership bid. Gove does not behave honourably. The reason he hasn’t resigned is to preserve what little remains of his credibility.
Remainers despise Gove, most Leavers now loathe Gove if the Tories really want to be obliterated at the next general election they will pick him as their next leader. If ever the phrase 'too clever by half' applies to anyone it is Michael Gove. He now makes Mandelson look straight forward and honest
I was fairly indifferent toward Gove, and indeed the others, and with Gove I recognise him as someone who seems to put in real effort whereever is and to come up with ideas, not just sit back and do nothing, which I can respect. Now I loathe him and the others in a way I don't think I do any other politicians out there.
NOT, I hasten to add, because they want to renegotiate the deal and thus, by definition, oppose the present deal. There are good reasons to do both. But not to do what they are doing. The sole defense so far seems to be based on accepting that Cabinet Ministers are welcome to do anything they like in opposition to the PM and that this is loyalty somehow, for that is the implication of the defense given.
Leadsom, Grayling, Mourdaunt, Gove if they really opposed May's Deal they should have resigned last week with McVey and Raab not try and undermine it from within
Appropriate to have a picture of Gove below a headline about rebellion, given his own more insidious and dishonourable rebellion.
Gove is behaving honourably. Him resigning might well have done for May. He's showing loyalty by sticking with her and trying to improve a deal he thinks will not be supported in the Commons as it is.
It is rather unusual for a group of cabinet ministers to campaign publicly against government policy.
It's not government policy, it's May's policy. I doubt you've seen many members of the government supporting it in public. May says this agreement is the best we can get. The EU say they won't renegotiate. If the deal is defeated in the House both sides are looking down the barrel of no deal. In that instance I think there will be scope to renegotiate some key aspects of the deal as both sides want to avoid no deal. Gove has judged this correctly.
So when the PM announces a policy she is not speaking for the government?
I thought it was obvious when she made her statement to the House that she was speaking for herself.
Her statement from the government benches in front of the dispatch box where the PM speaks?
I have seen many cases where reported behaviour and comments has to be judged as to whether someone is acting in specific official capacities or not, and I think a reasonable observer would think the PM announcing something to the House intending it to come to a vote would conclude it was government policy, particularly when a number of the Cabinet resigned because they could not back that policy.
Come come, todays Tory party has moved beyond that, the idea that the PM is in charge of the government is so last year. This work has been put out to tender and the contract was awarded to the craziest bidder, the ERG.
Perhaps we are just going full circle. It was a mistake to allow the government dominance of Walpole to head us down this route for evermore, of even having a clear PM at all.
Why do we even need a Cabinet? Parliament is sovereign and all that, let's run it on a committee system.
If a new Tory leader comes in on a platform of pursuing no deal (which they will have to after about 1 meeting with the EU) then i suspect a vote of confidence will be called in the HoC, and they will lose.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only if MrsMay's 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
'NODEAL preserves the Union.' I cannot believe you can write such rubbish.
Not only does No Deal give the SNP their best ever chance for a Yes vote to independence it also means a hard border in Ireland hugely increasing the momentum for Irish Unity
If a new Tory leader comes in on a platform of pursuing no deal (which they will have to after about 1 meeting with the EU) then i suspect a vote of confidence will be called in the HoC, and they will lose.
Yes, I expect Soubry, Grieve etc will no confidence a Tory PM installed after a coup to oust May and go for No Deal, though I think May survives anyway, her opponents do not have the numbers to no confidence her
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
You clearly haven't been looking at how tight the mogg&co are with the DUP.
The 'wholly avoidable risk' has placed them as the kingmakers for probably 5y in the UK parliament. Such is 'playing out badly'
Given your condition, madness is unavoidable I suppose. Oh well
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
52:48
Still works for the deal as well as no deal I am afraid, might want to try something else.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
But it is a long-held prejudice. The EU is full of Catholics, Treaty of Rome and all that. Like all prejudices it owes little to logic or calculation.
Oh well, have a good weekend everybody - it will be interesting to see if the Tories go for an interim Brexit only leader if May goes or not. I'm still thinking she survives long enough to see her deal voted down in the House, and then she goes, survived confidence vote notwithstanding.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
You clearly haven't been looking at how tight the mogg&co are with the DUP.
The 'wholly avoidable risk' has placed them as the kingmakers for probably 5y in the UK parliament. Such is 'playing out badly'
Given your condition, madness is unavoidable I suppose. Oh well
52:48
You think the Northern Irish (NB not the DUP) haven’t noticed that Leavers are willing to see Northern Ireland go up in flames to secure Brexit? Irish unity has never looked closer. The DUP exist to ensure the opposite. They have walked into a strategic disaster.
Tory MPs are also i suspect missing that the uncertainty is finally beginning to impact on ordinary people's lives. I have had conversations with people at work who are starting to discuss things like holidays next year, and how they can't plan ahead on their usual timescales, and the idea that this can go on for much longer, even theoretically right up to the wire on 31st March is for those away with the fairies. People are increasingly going to start getting very angry. God only knows what they would think of the Tories taking a couple of months out to have a leadership contest.
The message of the polls is strong - people still support May as the best option and don't want her to go.
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
You clearly haven't been looking at how tight the mogg&co are with the DUP.
The 'wholly avoidable risk' has placed them as the kingmakers for probably 5y in the UK parliament. Such is 'playing out badly'
Given your condition, madness is unavoidable I suppose. Oh well
Are the DUP serious ? Could they not just be bought on Vote 2 onwards ? I mean serious eye watering cash ?
On anything that makes the union weaker, the catchphrase is never x 4. They will never x 50 trust Jeremy Corbyn. Their supporters would show him even less trust.
Their backing of Brexit is the most inexplicable strategic error by any political party in my lifetime.
Their voters want it.
The endlessly repeated 'NI voted Remain' is a generaliseation that misses the point.
SF, SDLP Alliance voted Remain. DUP and UUP voters were LEAVE.
The header article is wrong.
The DUP exist to keep Northern Ireland in the union. Backing Brexit has imperilled that in a way no other development has for a generation. It was a ridiculous blunder.
Only MrsMay 'Deal' is accepted.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
Erm in your Brexit insanity you miss the point. The DUP took a wholly avoidable risk at long odds in pursuit of a subsidiary prejudice. It’s playing out badly for them. This was entirely predictable.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
You clearly haven't been looking at how tight the mogg&co are with the DUP.
The 'wholly avoidable risk' has placed them as the kingmakers for probably 5y in the UK parliament. Such is 'playing out badly'
Given your condition, madness is unavoidable I suppose. Oh well
52:48
You think the Northern Irish (NB not the DUP) haven’t noticed that Leavers are willing to see Northern Ireland go up in flames to secure Brexit? Irish unity has never looked closer. The DUP exist to ensure the opposite. They have walked into a strategic disaster.
Interesting: you obviously missed Varadkar dail statement the other day.
He reiterated: The DUP has to agree for any change to NI status under the GFA.
No doubt your discovery of the 'Strategic Disaster' will change everything
Tory MPs are also i suspect missing that the uncertainty is finally beginning to impact on ordinary people's lives. I have had conversations with people at work who are starting to discuss things like holidays next year, and how they can't plan ahead on their usual timescales, and the idea that this can go on for much longer, even theoretically right up to the wire on 31st March is for those away with the fairies. People are increasingly going to start getting very angry. God only knows what they would think of the Tories taking a couple of months out to have a leadership contest.
The message of the polls is strong - people still support May as the best option and don't want her to go.
Not sure about the last point but I am also increasingly finding people worried and frustrated about the lack of certainty beyond March next year. Holidays not being booked... which might sound like a first world problem but for many it's a really important thing they look forward to planning and enjoying.
Comments
I suppose after the hanging comments and the video tape of the candidate approving of targeted voter suppression against Dems that reduces the chance of a guaranteed GOP win down a fraction.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/17/conservative-plot-oust-theresa-may-nears-tipping-point-mps-rebellion/
Not sure if this got the audience it deserved at the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnXoQeGnT4Q
I don't see that it helps her, and in any case helping her is not the point - the point is helping the nation, and if they believe that requires a new deal, it also requires a new leader. That's an honourable position to take.
She said the same about a general election, she said the same about the customs union, what is clear is if the circumstances change so do May's 'red lines.'
The question would be straight Remain v Leave with No Deal given the Commons will not pass her Deal.
I expect she would secretly savour Remain winning EUref2 and socking it to the ERG if they vote down her Deal
Plus seven "beasts" actively preparing campaigns: Boris, Hunt, Rudd, Mordaunt, Javid, Davis, Raab
A leadership election would more likely produce either confusion, leading to a no deal Brexit, or a headbanger... leading to a no deal Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/17/smooth-brexit-could-cost-10bn-extra
You can all thank me now.
Not every DUP UUP voter was leave. Similarly neither were the SF's etc Remain. The Leave proportion was differentially larger in the Unionist returning areas and so their HoC representatives outlook reflects it.
I cannot stand the smell of tobacco nor the clouds from vaping and manage my copd quite well
I urge everyone who smokes - quit now
NOT, I hasten to add, because they want to renegotiate the deal and thus, by definition, oppose the present deal. There are good reasons to do both. But not to do what they are doing. The sole defense so far seems to be based on accepting that Cabinet Ministers are welcome to do anything they like in opposition to the PM and that this is loyalty somehow, for that is the implication of the defense given.
I recommend choosing the blandest, most invisible Tory MP they can find, to act as PM while the Cabinet just does their own thing, since apparently that's cool now.
I have seen many cases where reported behaviour and comments has to be judged as to whether someone is acting in specific official capacities or not, and I think a reasonable observer would think the PM announcing something to the House intending it to come to a vote would conclude it was government policy, particularly when a number of the Cabinet resigned because they could not back that policy.
It's frankly bizarre that May has tried to push her party into a deal that doesn't. It could only ever have one outcome.
That alternative vote?
I would, however, sincerely appreciate a spasm of enthusiasm for David Lidington before Theresa May is replaced.
To date that had been by blackmailing the British government
This is the first time someone has called their bluff
I said back in September it was time for her to go and someone else to have a last ditch go at it instead, it's remarkable JRM and co decided to give her more time despite her being insistent she would head down a path they don't like, and which clearly the party would not have the votes to pass on its own with the DUP.
That's called, doing a Theresa May after her EuRef performance.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/17/arron-banks-emails-steve-bannon-brexit-campaign-funds
I imagine Javid, Hunt and most of the rest are being cowardly and that when a no confidence vote comes they may or may not vote for May, but if it forces her out (either because she loses or there are just too many against despite her winning for her to carry on) that they will agree to back some new leader (hopefully themselves) on the Gove/Leadsome etc plan.
Probably.
NODEAL preserves the Union. And may well generate a fair bit of Us and Them with the EU given their likely behaviour. Solidarity will be useful.
There are others.
Meanwhile the Northern Irish have learned just how little English nationalists care about them. Regardless of how this plays out now, the Northern Irish are going to be looking to their options in a way they never previously did.
I'm hoping Jo Johnson gets it ahead of him - that would be hilarious.
Why do we even need a Cabinet? Parliament is sovereign and all that, let's run it on a committee system.
Not only does No Deal give the SNP their best ever chance for a Yes vote to independence it also means a hard border in Ireland hugely increasing the momentum for Irish Unity
The 'wholly avoidable risk' has placed them as the kingmakers for probably 5y in the UK parliament. Such is 'playing out badly'
Given your condition, madness is unavoidable I suppose. Oh well
52:48
Like all prejudices it owes little to logic or calculation.
The message of the polls is strong - people still support May as the best option and don't want her to go.
He reiterated: The DUP has to agree for any change to NI status under the GFA.
No doubt your discovery of the 'Strategic Disaster' will change everything
52:48