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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mr. Johnson becomes favourite once again to succeed Mrs. May

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mr. Johnson becomes favourite once again to succeed Mrs. May

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  • If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.

    May's deal has a transition period, the final deal is very much up for grabs after that. The backstop is customs union without single market for GB so far as I can tell - not something the EU would like us to be in for too long.
  • Pulpstar said:

    If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.

    May's deal has a transition period, the final deal is very much up for grabs after that. The backstop is customs union without single market for GB so far as I can tell - not something the EU would like us to be in for too long.
    Well you know that and I know that Pulpstar - I was just trying to put Davis' best foot forward as he seems incapable of splitting the WA and the long term partnership up in his head.
  • Keep on laying him like his many mistresses.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609
    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.
  • I see BF has a nascent "will there be a no confidence vote" market up
  • NotchNotch Posts: 145
    edited November 2018
    Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,135
    It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.

    I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.

    He’s either very thick or a shit Manchurian candidate.
  • We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383
    Notch said:

    Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.

    Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Notch said:

    Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.

    Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
    She'd probably remain leader in the meantime, though.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
    The Brexits will continue until morale improves.
  • Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    Because it is a treaty and, thankfully, we don't have a history of reneging on treaty commitments.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,725
    edited November 2018

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    Have they claimed that? I think they've just ignored it, and hoped no-one would notice.
  • We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
    Which will make things interesting regarding the whole question of a second referendum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.
    Time to start arresting Remainers calling for the arrest of the majority.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 968
    How about we have a GE and a EUREF2 on the same day?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    Pulpstar said:

    Notch said:

    Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.

    Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
    She'd probably remain leader in the meantime, though.
    Yes but best to string out and delay that vote as long as possible. Hopefully they'll be plenty of time for debate as well as amendments being attempted to be put forward. Bercow should oblige us on that front I'd hope ?
  • We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
    Which will make things interesting regarding the whole question of a second referendum.
    Yep.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.
    Time to start arresting Remainers calling for the arrest of the majority.
    Let's just arrest everybody, it's the only fair way.
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    Have they claimed that? I think they've just ignored it.
    Not in the last few weeks but it was a common claim at the beginning of the year.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609
    edited November 2018

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view. Not in that they have been not very accommodating (of course they fight hard in a negotiation), but because I think their tactics have contributed to making a deal less likely and their official position is they want a deal.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.

    You don't fight stupid with more stupid. Unless you're on Question Time I suppose.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383
    edited November 2018
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown.
    Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view. Not in that they have been not very accommodating, but because I think it made a deal less likely and their official position is they want a deal.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    I think you are right. Hence my reluctant support for the Deal.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273

    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    Because it is a treaty and, thankfully, we don't have a history of reneging on treaty commitments.
    It doesn't seem to bother others. Who writes history?
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.
    Time to start arresting Remainers calling for the arrest of the majority.
    I’ve always made the distinction between those who voted Leave and those who said it would easy, that we held all the aces and there was only sunlit uplands to Brexit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    edited November 2018
    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotiate a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    Because it is a treaty and, thankfully, we don't have a history of reneging on treaty commitments.
    It doesn't seem to bother others. Who writes history?
    The winners.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,754

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    On day one, there wouldn’t. We would soon have to agree terms to avoid one though, and we’d be in a weaker negotiating position.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,535
    edited November 2018
    TOPPING said:

    It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.

    I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.

    Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!

    I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.

    I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    timmo said:

    How about we have a GE and a EUREF2 on the same day?

    January 1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609
    Notch said:

    O

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.

    I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.

    He’s either very thick or a shit Manchurian candidate.
    I'm looking forward to the Brexit show trials. First up Cameron, then Johnson then Corbyn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    As the head of the CBI said earlier in this Country we have zero employment yet politicians from all sides are willing to put this at risk just for some mad political dogma/posturing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    He probably will not be feeling so smart if that happens, no. It might happen. I don't see how that helps us in our present predicament, however, as framed by Tory rebels and Labour, that Barnier and co will change things up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383
    edited November 2018

    TOPPING said:

    It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.

    I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.

    Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!

    I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.

    I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
    I think I vote for the Moggster in that scenario, then X the Labour box in blood at the next GE if they get someone more sensible to lead. It's truly an awful choice though.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The Brexit Truth and Reconciliation Committee.

    Led by an impartial panel of judges: Gary Lineker, James O'Brien and Joanne Rowling.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown.
    Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
    Labour obviously thinks if anyone can, it can
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    kle4 said:

    Notch said:

    O

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.

    I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
    Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609

    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    We could add "Vi coactus" next to the signature like Diane James.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 1,614
    edited November 2018
    Wow what an open market (for Tory leadership). In this information/data age, remarkable that it's possible that we have no idea who will win.

    Glad now, that I didn't throw my Amber Rudd betting slip in the bin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609

    kle4 said:

    Notch said:

    O

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.

    I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
    Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
    Very important case, that, and a worthy one whichever side people fell in the Brexit divide.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    Pulpstar said:

    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    Because it is a treaty and, thankfully, we don't have a history of reneging on treaty commitments.
    It doesn't seem to bother others. Who writes history?
    The winners.
    Quite. I'm for leaving.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 4,818

    timmo said:

    How about we have a GE and a EUREF2 on the same day?

    January 1
    April 1 would be more appropriate.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    edited November 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,135

    TOPPING said:

    It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.

    I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.

    Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!

    I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.

    I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
    What a gruesome game of "would you rather..."

    I refuse to contemplate that I, together with the country, might soon be confronted with that choice.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown.
    Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
    Labour obviously thinks if anyone can, it can
    If the Brexiteers think May's deal is a capitulation, they ain't seen nothing yet.
  • kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.

    He’s either very thick or a shit Manchurian candidate.
    I'm looking forward to the Brexit show trials. First up Cameron, then Johnson then Corbyn.
    Nah if there are show trials it will be leavers for not being "proper leavers".
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    I wonder what price the EU would extract for agreeing to revocation.
  • NotchNotch Posts: 145

    We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
    Which will make things interesting regarding the whole question of a second referendum.
    Macron has said the porte remains ouverte. Which member states might say no it doesn't?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    On day one, there wouldn’t. We would soon have to agree terms to avoid one though, and we’d be in a weaker negotiating position.
    The stronger position would be the side that cared less. Not sure where that would lie - UK or Eire population-wise.
  • Which of these runners and riders is a 21st century Robert Peel?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Notch said:

    We should revoke Article 50.
    Then invoke it again.

    Call the first Brexit a mulligan.

    I think you have succinctly summed up the likely ECJ judgement on why we can't unilaterally revoke Article 50.
    Which will make things interesting regarding the whole question of a second referendum.
    Macron has said the porte remains ouverte. Which member states might say no it doesn't?
    We don't know if the door remains open or not. It's up to the ECJ to tell us.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 1,614

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383
    edited November 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 26,863
    "View: The oil price is now controlled by just three men

    OPEC has lost what control of the oil market it ever had. The actions (or tweets) of three men — President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman — will determine the course of oil prices in 2019 and beyond. But of course they each want different things."

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/view-the-oil-price-is-now-controlled-by-just-three-men/articleshow/66680773.cms
  • Another public school educated Thames Valley Tory is the last thing theTories need. None of those 6 is particularly worthwhile. All blow with the wind and none has a worthwhile track record. They badly need new talent from the back benches untarnished by the failures of the last few years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    Surely, a Madame Tussaud's waxwork of a fictional government minster....

    Anyway, they'll be melting him down by the end of the week. Once he's finished counting the DExEU paperclips.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273

    kle4 said:

    Notch said:

    O

    Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.

    I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
    Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
    Amen
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018
    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
    When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.

    Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
  • Is it mad to think that once EU pretty much agree deal, May will announce that firm commitment to 'no new referendum' was a necessary ruse to get EU concentrating on what to negotiate if we do leave. Had referendum been announced before EU would give bad terms to persuade us to stay, so ruse of saying no new referendum was necessary. Once a deal of some sort has been negotiated, she can now say the public's information has changed on what brexit deal will be then the public should get a new say on what is to happen.

    May has form for this sort of thing, but that didn't work out too well last time.

    The people this would really annoy are those saying 'get on with it' but that seems to me like saying 'don't want a new referendum because we might lose'. That seems like it should be easy to marginalise as trying to do something against current will of the people.

    Not sure if this would be seen as coup for May, or more like snatching respite from jaws of defeat, or something else? (Probably more like politically impossible for reasons I can't see, so feel free to enlighten me.)
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    I think that must be simply name recognition. Can't see the (Parliamentary) party backing Boris.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
    Democracy, innit......
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    kle4 said:

    Why don't we sign the WA with our fingers crossed? Serious question?

    We could add "Vi coactus" next to the signature like Diane James.
    What a sensible suggestion but, belt and braces, let's do both.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,135
    edited November 2018
    They have gone stark, staring mad. It's like all the Brexiters have gone to school camp, have had 10 nights without sleep, and then been told to cross a river using only twigs and some baler twine. They've lost all powers of rational thought.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 27,774
    crandles said:

    Is it mad to think that once EU pretty much agree deal, May will announce that firm commitment to 'no new referendum' was a necessary ruse to get EU concentrating on what to negotiate if we do leave. Had referendum been announced before EU would give bad terms to persuade us to stay, so ruse of saying no new referendum was necessary. Once a deal of some sort has been negotiated, she can now say the public's information has changed on what brexit deal will be then the public should get a new say on what is to happen.

    May has form for this sort of thing, but that didn't work out too well last time.

    The people this would really annoy are those saying 'get on with it' but that seems to me like saying 'don't want a new referendum because we might lose'. That seems like it should be easy to marginalise as trying to do something against current will of the people.

    Not sure if this would be seen as coup for May, or more like snatching respite from jaws of defeat, or something else? (Probably more like politically impossible for reasons I can't see, so feel free to enlighten me.)

    It would infuriate most of her party.
    Andrew Lilico believes that a Corbyn government and/or ten years of economic disruption would be worth it, in order to prevent the WA.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    dixiedean said:

    timmo said:

    How about we have a GE and a EUREF2 on the same day?

    January 1
    April 1 would be more appropriate.
    What happens on March 31?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 1,614

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
    When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.

    Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
    If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown.
    Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
    Labour obviously thinks if anyone can, it can
    If the Brexiteers think May's deal is a capitulation, they ain't seen nothing yet.
    Hopefully no one gets to see that
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 4,818
    Boris and Raab...lay the favourite. Lay the second favourite.
    Golden rule of Tory elections.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173
    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
    When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.

    Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
    If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
    But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.

    Which, of course, we can trigger.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383
    edited November 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
  • Amazing how quickly things change. Not long ago the Leavers were building giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. Now they seem more inclined to throw her off.
  • eekeek Posts: 3,874

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,135

    But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.

    Which, of course, we can trigger.

    We can't get no deal - I will say this right up until we get, er, no deal.

    But modern day, pragmatic, no alternative, politics means that we will get a deal and the backstop will be a part of it. Perhaps all we will get will be the backstop now there's a thought.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,273

    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
    The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.

    However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
    The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.

    Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?

    TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
    Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:

    "and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."

    How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
    When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.

    Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
    If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
    But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.

    Which, of course, we can trigger.
    Would that I could be confident such common sense prevails
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 11,676
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
    Abstaining would make less sense than voting against. Either the deal is terrible for the country or it isn't (isn't in this context could include 'bad, but better than any other option').
    I appreciate that tweet quite a lot. It's extreme, but is open that rejecting the deal might lead to a number of different outcomes, not just someone's preferred, mythical outcome.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 11,676

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
    BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.

    Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
  • kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
    Abstaining would make less sense than voting against. Either the deal is terrible for the country or it isn't (isn't in this context could include 'bad, but better than any other option').
    I appreciate that tweet quite a lot. It's extreme, but is open that rejecting the deal might lead to a number of different outcomes, not just someone's preferred, mythical outcome.
    It's amazing how collectively the ERG/Brexiteers have lost their mind that NO BREXIT is better.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,609

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
    Why do you only seem to care who 'owns' Brexit. Labour have the ability to categorically prevent no deal. There is an argument that they should not vote for the deal in order to prevent that because other no deal options are available (how realistically is up for debate) but screwing the Tories, or having them screw themselves, should not matter in the slightest. If it was deal or no deal Labour will be crucial, and whoever puts them in that position Labour will be accountable for their own choice.

    At present they are rejecting the choice as being that binary, which certainly makes it simpler for them. But the Tories getting all or most blame hardly matters here.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,383

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
    BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.

    Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
    He certainly is, I've had to quit the party over his reckless threat to vote down the deal. Which is a shame because I the local Lib Dems round here are a great bunch.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,173

    dixiedean said:

    timmo said:

    How about we have a GE and a EUREF2 on the same day?

    January 1
    April 1 would be more appropriate.
    What happens on March 31?
    Apparently, we start grubbing around for roots and berries and commence using sea-shells as currency....
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
    BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.

    Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
    He certainly is, I've had to quit the party over his reckless threat to vote down the deal. Which is a shame because I the local Lib Dems round here are a great bunch.
    My guess is that LD MPs will end up voting for the deal.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,135
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.

    So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....

    For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
    Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.

    For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
    They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit.
    Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
    Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.

    I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
    Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
    Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO

    Tories own BREXIT
    Why do you only seem to care who 'owns' Brexit. Labour have the ability to categorically prevent no deal. There is an argument that they should not vote for the deal in order to prevent that because other no deal options are available (how realistically is up for debate) but screwing the Tories, or having them screw themselves, should not matter in the slightest. If it was deal or no deal Labour will be crucial, and whoever puts them in that position Labour will be accountable for their own choice.

    At present they are rejecting the choice as being that binary, which certainly makes it simpler for them. But the Tories getting all or most blame hardly matters here.
    Rubbish. The Tories themselves are saying that a better deal can be achieved so why on earth wouldn't Labour advance the argument that if there is a better deal to be had, they are the ones who should be charged to achieve it?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    kle4 said:

    A consequence of him being relatively quiet in the last week?

    Hot on the heels of trying to secure a trade deal with Oklahoma, David davis comes out with another cracker ...

    I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
    Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.

    He’s either very thick or a shit Manchurian candidate.
    I'm looking forward to the Brexit show trials. First up Cameron, then Johnson then Corbyn.
    Bloody liberal democrats ;-)
This discussion has been closed.