May lied to your face, betrayed your constituents and now you're expected to go on TV, support the deeply problematic wording of the PD, and say "thank you Theresa please may I have another".
Imagine how little dignity and self-respect you'd have to have to be a Scots Tory giving May a pass over this.
Aside from Ross and David who've come out diametrically opposed, I think they're all awaiting orders from Ruthie.
Who will fall in line.
I think Ruth backs this, but lets see.
It is hard to see how Nicola objects as it is as good as her Norway choice
True, but also irrelevant. The narrative avalanche has started. If you squint your ears "May betrays UK fishing, gets nothing in return" is being breathed on the political winds.
Quite possibly. But one doesn't need to join in the nonsense.
You keep repeating to yourself into that mirror, Richard. "This is a good deal, Richard. THIS IS A GOOD DEAL".
You're gonna get through this, I believe in you.
And you, Mark, and Ross are a narrative avalanche. Do you advise the ERG ?
What is the point of JRM's long paragraph asserting that Britain's current monarch is descended from the prophet Mohammed through Elizabeth of Bohemia, and that if Asser is correct than she is also descended from Wotan?
I can't take the idea seriously that Boris Johnson will be a serious contender for the Tory leadership.
Might there have been a "coup" inside the ERG? Her office as Leader of the House gives Andrea Leadsom a useful string for her bow in the coming shenanigans.
Theresa May's "deal" kicks all the difficult decisions to another cliff edge in 2020, when the EU will be even less willing, and us even less able, to avert disaster in good faith.
Kicking the can ever further down the road. Saving her skin one more time.
What an utter fucking shambolic shitshow of a disaster May is trying to hawk us.
What is the point of JRM's long paragraph asserting that Britain's current monarch is descended from the prophet Mohammed through Elizabeth of Bohemia, and that if Asser is correct than she is also descended from Wotan?
I can't take the idea seriously that Boris Johnson will be a serious contender for the Tory leadership.
Might there have been a "coup" inside the ERG? Her office as Leader of the House gives Andrea Leadsom a useful string to her bow in the coming shenanigans.
If you can't talk about what you need to talk about, talk about something you want to talk about?
Letter from Scots Tories to May on 14th Nov (Signed by all the Scottish Tories) says "access and quota shares cannot be included in the Future Economic Partnership”.
Have a guess what May has just done...
I assume you have a detailed knowledge of the fishing industry including access and quotas
With a common resource it makes sense to have agreements on how to manage it.
The UK fundamentally disagrees with how the CFP operates
The future relationship document is 26 pages of non-binding waffle with acres of wriggle room built in. It sells no-one out because it contains no firm commitments. To get outraged by it is to reveal yourself to be someone looking for reasons to be outraged.
Whether it's binding or not, May has agreed to something last week she was assuring her Cabinet she absolutely wasn't going to do. And not done something that last week she assured her cabinet she was going to do.
Incompetence or malice? Mixture of both, maybe?
That's a calculation for the Cabinet.
Nicola Sturgeon has criticised the outline for failing to get annual reviews on fisheries and even she does not think the fisheries agreement is part of the FP.
Her criticism is hilarious given that her preferred option is to lock in the betrayal of the fishing industry.
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Bring back the days of buying a game and that's it.
Glad the rumours of the death of 2nd hand game discs haven't yet come true, at least.
As a reasonably hardcore PC gamer, I can only agree with this. These days its: 1. Release game with multiple bugs and charge full price. 2. Release 'DLC' which is effectively paid for patches to bring the game up to speed over the next 2 years.
Total cost of a 'new' game has gone from £30-£40 ten years ago to well over £100 if you buy everything on day one. That increase isn't inflation alone.
I never buy games at release anymore, and when I hear of one I might be interested in playing, I just think 'Oh, that'll interest me to buy in maybe three years time when its all patched and DLCed up'.
You missed.
0. Charge for "early access" version, which isn't even an alpha version, 2 years before actual release. ... 3. Charge extra for access to buggy and unfinished game 4 days before advertised release date. 4. Make the game such a grind to level up, that its requires either use of micotransaction purchases or 100hrs of side missions in order to be strong enough to actually progress with the main story.
Indeed. It's probably the main reasons my favourite games are:
Countdown to Doomsday (1990) Gateway to the Savage Frontier (1991) UFO: Enemy Unknown (1994) Civilisation II (1995) Hearts of Iron 2 (2005) Neverwinter Nights (2002)
The game I'm playing at the moment is Fallout New Vegas, which at a 2010 release is relatively new, but it's also completely 'settled' meaning what I see is what I get. No one is going to fleece me out of another £20 in the future.
Letter from Scots Tories to May on 14th Nov (Signed by all the Scottish Tories) says "access and quota shares cannot be included in the Future Economic Partnership”.
Have a guess what May has just done...
I assume you have a detailed knowledge of the fishing industry including access and quotas
No, but I do have the the ability to read English words and sentences, and to obtain semantic meaning from. Such as when the PD makes the FEP deal contingent on selling out fishing, when she assured Mundell, Ruth and the entire Scottish Tory party that she wasn't going to do that.
Question is, did May know she was going to betray Scottish Tories? This might be the important question for Mundell: she lied to your face, you need to decided whether it's malice or incompetence.
Mundell is a sook and will not give up the trough , he will ditch his principles , lying is second nature to these losers, promise will be glossed over with some weaselly words.
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Off to UKIP with you then.
The Tories on 39% with Yougov this week even with UKIP up
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Off to UKIP with you then.
The Tories on 39% with Yougov this week even with UKIP up
Nope. Not UKIP. Can't stand them. I'd like a business friendly, socially progressive, ideally smaller state but not madly so option please. And no unicorns.
The deal is receiving positive media coverage here and in Europe and you just wonder how many of our mps will come to the conclusion to go with it so as to close off the second referendum and no deal options and actually be able to move on.
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Off to UKIP with you then.
The Tories on 39% with Yougov this week even with UKIP up
That's the greatest joke of all of this shitstainery - Brexit never really had a chance. The entire UK political establishment has closed ranks around managed decline under vassalage rather than having to respect the will of the electorate.
May lied to your face, betrayed your constituents and now you're expected to go on TV, support the deeply problematic wording of the PD, and say "thank you Theresa please may I have another".
Imagine how little dignity and self-respect you'd have to have to be a Scots Tory giving May a pass over this.
Aside from Ross and David who've come out diametrically opposed, I think they're all awaiting orders from Ruthie.
Who will fall in line.
I think Ruth backs this, but lets see.
It is hard to see how Nicola objects as it is as good as her Norway choice
G, because the lying toerags have said all along that they would not give away fishing rights, but as predicted you cannot trust them as far as you can throw them. Devious lying toerags to the bitter end.
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me...
The deal is receiving positive media coverage here and in Europe and you just wonder how many of our mps will come to the conclusion to go with it so as to close off the second referendum and no deal options and actually be able to move on.
Industry agrees that “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent coastal state with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources” (Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation).
The text acknowledges the UK will be “an independent coastal state” with the rights and responsibilities that entails.
The EU wanted “existing reciprocal access to fishing waters and resources [to] be maintained” but this has been rejected - there is no commitment in the political declaration to maintaining existing access.
Instead the declaration says there will be a fisheries agreement which is a separate agreement and separate negotiation to the FTA.
This is similar to the arrangement Norway, as another independent coastal state, has with the EU - they have a fishing agreement which is separate to their trading arrangements.
Theresa May's "deal" kicks all the difficult decisions to another cliff edge in 2020, when the EU will be even less willing, and us even less able, to avert disaster in good faith.
Kicking the can ever further down the road. Saving her skin one more time.
What an utter fucking shambolic shitshow of a disaster May is trying to hawk us.
Keep telling yourself that if it keeps you happy
EU will rape and pillage UK on the trade deal as we will have no cards whilst they hold all the aces. Hard to believe anyone believes these chancers.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
Theresa May's "deal" kicks all the difficult decisions to another cliff edge in 2020, when the EU will be even less willing, and us even less able, to avert disaster in good faith.
Kicking the can ever further down the road. Saving her skin one more time.
What an utter fucking shambolic shitshow of a disaster May is trying to hawk us.
Keep telling yourself that if it keeps you happy
EU will rape and pillage UK on the trade deal as we will have no cards whilst they hold all the aces. Hard to believe anyone believes these chancers.
May lied to your face, betrayed your constituents and now you're expected to go on TV, support the deeply problematic wording of the PD, and say "thank you Theresa please may I have another".
Imagine how little dignity and self-respect you'd have to have to be a Scots Tory giving May a pass over this.
Aside from Ross and David who've come out diametrically opposed, I think they're all awaiting orders from Ruthie.
Who will fall in line.
I think Ruth backs this, but lets see.
It is hard to see how Nicola objects as it is as good as her Norway choice
G, because the lying toerags have said all along that they would not give away fishing rights, but as predicted you cannot trust them as far as you can throw them. Devious lying toerags to the bitter end.
How have they given away fishing rights. We sell most fish into europe so a deal is needed but this deal is far better than the status quo and mirrror's Nicola's Norway position as indeed the Norwegian Fisheries have just confirmed and, have an enjoyable day up there in Ayrshire
The deal is receiving positive media coverage here and in Europe and you just wonder how many of our mps will come to the conclusion to go with it so as to close off the second referendum and no deal options and actually be able to move on.
I am certain the Country will want that
This could be her Falklands Moment(tm)
Falklands or not but if she achieves this she will be greatly respected by very many
The deal is receiving positive media coverage here and in Europe and you just wonder how many of our mps will come to the conclusion to go with it so as to close off the second referendum and no deal options and actually be able to move on.
I am certain the Country will want that
This could be her Falklands Moment(tm)
Falklands or not but if she achieves this she will be greatly respected by very many
I... doubt that. May's only real skills she has ever demonstrated are survival at any cost and being nasty about immigrants.
Also, not my style but if you're playing New Vegas on PC check out the New California mod. Sounds like it's essentially a free new game. Bit tricky to set up, apparently, but tons of content.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Who needs U-boats to starve us when you can have French customs officers?
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Off to UKIP with you then.
The Tories on 39% with Yougov this week even with UKIP up
That's the greatest joke of all of this shitstainery - Brexit never really had a chance. The entire UK political establishment has closed ranks around managed decline under vassalage rather than having to respect the will of the electorate.
Could you explain exactly how "respecting the will of the electorate" (which apparently means a diamond-hard Brexit, although no such thing was consistently promised even by Leave advocates) makes Britain more prosperous and secure than either (a) this deal, (b) continued EU membership?
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
It's interesting to wonder if there is *anyone* May wouldn't betray, lie to or sell out in her campaign to cling on for one more day at any cost.
It really does seem not. It seems like she cared about nobody or no thing, holds nothing sacred, years to preserve nothing.
All that matters, THE ONLY THING, is that May survive another day.
To be honest your posts are becoming increasingly paranoid no doubt as even you think this may just pass
I have no idea what's going to happen. I enjoy the chaos of it all, TBH. This is what I hoped and expected to happen. Chaos.
In the meantime I can still get pleasure mocking well-meaning saboteurs like you and Richard for mistaking Mrs May's repeated incompetence and lies for "grit". Generally speaking, when people get taken in by charlatans, they tend to be people who are actually good at being charlatans. Not you though. It's a very novel approach. I admire it.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
What gets me is the idiots on here that try to defend her and pretend she has a deal, all she does is give in and use weaselly words hoping it will not register when the duplicity is implemented in the great trade deal giveaway bonanza.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
What gets me is the idiots on here that try to defend her and pretend she has a deal, all she does is give in and use weaselly words hoping it will not register when the duplicity is implemented in the great trade deal giveaway bonanza.
As I said downthread, all that matters is May's survival.
The UK fishing industry? If it will keep May in office another day, onto the bonfire of her vanity it goes.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Their Tory mouthpiece though G, he is unlikely to ever not support the Tories.
Can anyone please explain to me why access to waters and access to markets need be linked?
We can both export and import goods without requiring or being able to get the other nations natural resources. If we want to import or export oil we so do,.we don't demand or grant free access to oilfields.
Why would we need to grant access to our waters or demand access to others waters rather than simply trading the haddock, herring etc caught?
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
What gets me is the idiots on here that try to defend her and pretend she has a deal, all she does is give in and use weaselly words hoping it will not register when the duplicity is implemented in the great trade deal giveaway bonanza.
As I said downthread, all that matters is May's survival.
The UK fishing industry? If it will keep May in office another day, onto the bonfire of her vanity it goes.
Look I know you feel this is all very important, but some of us have bets on her surviving the year.
Can anyone please explain to me why access to waters and access to markets need be linked?
Macron demanded it, and May was opposed. So upshot is, Macron and May hammered out a "May compromise" of Macron getting what he wanted and May getting nothing.
The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, er, backs the deal:
"Responding to the Brexit political declaration today, Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said: “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent Coastal State with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources.
“However we know that several EU nations will not give up their attempts to link access with trade in order to retain absolute rights to fish around our coastline.
“So we will continue to seek assurances from the UK Government that it will remain steadfast and will not rest until the future arrangements are signed, sealed and delivered and we secure that critical control over access to our waters and who catches what stocks, where and when."
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
@Richard_Nabavi Mississippi settled at a closing price of 40.70
Just Utah to go now.
I see the Dems flipped a seat in Utah. The "Not a Blue Wave" pundits on election night look like morons now.
California's glacial counting process and the News Networks desperation to call races quickly I think might have resulted in some incorrectly settled Betfair markets.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
What gets me is the idiots on here that try to defend her and pretend she has a deal, all she does is give in and use weaselly words hoping it will not register when the duplicity is implemented in the great trade deal giveaway bonanza.
As I said downthread, all that matters is May's survival.
The UK fishing industry? If it will keep May in office another day, onto the bonfire of her vanity it goes.
Look I know you feel this is all very important, but some of us have bets on her surviving the year.
I know better than to come between a gambler and his open positions.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, er, backs the deal:
"Responding to the Brexit political declaration today, Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said: “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent Coastal State with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources.
“However we know that several EU nations will not give up their attempts to link access with trade in order to retain absolute rights to fish around our coastline.
“So we will continue to seek assurances from the UK Government that it will remain steadfast and will not rest until the future arrangements are signed, sealed and delivered and we secure that critical control over access to our waters and who catches what stocks, where and when."
The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, er, backs the deal:
"Responding to the Brexit political declaration today, Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said: “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent Coastal State with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources.
“However we know that several EU nations will not give up their attempts to link access with trade in order to retain absolute rights to fish around our coastline.
“So we will continue to seek assurances from the UK Government that it will remain steadfast and will not rest until the future arrangements are signed, sealed and delivered and we secure that critical control over access to our waters and who catches what stocks, where and when."
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
We're currently at 84 Tories declared against.
How many do you think we'll be at by bedtime?
Have you looked up the Stotfield disaster
As for numbers it is only the numbers on the day of the vote that count
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
We're currently at 84 Tories declared against.
How many do you think we'll be at by bedtime?
Have you looked up the Stotfield disaster
As for numbers it is only the numbers on the day of the vote that count
Yes, it is. So humour me, how many Tories do you think May's fishing theatrics today is going to add to the No column?
May is such a technocrat. Her technique of never ending repetition, killing intelligent debate by making it tedious, could work for her - but I doubt on this it won't. It might have worked in the Home office, but the passion for Brexit could well override it.
The UK fleet also catches/traps a shit-load of crab, lobster and shellfish (such as cockles and whelks) that have no market in the UK - despite us being an 'island nation' - and which get sent to markets in Europe.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
We're currently at 84 Tories declared against.
How many do you think we'll be at by bedtime?
Have you looked up the Stotfield disaster
As for numbers it is only the numbers on the day of the vote that count
Yes, it is. So humour me, how many Tories do you think May's fishing theatrics today is going to add to the No column?
Might be zero. What do you reckon?
On the day I expect them to vote for the deal rather than risk the possibility of no change
They British people do indeed want this to be settled. By cancelling Brexit.
Hold on, you voted to leave didn't you ?
Yes.
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain People's Vote Labour BRINO/Norway4Now No Deal Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
May's talent for being no things to no people, has led to her producing a deal that is the least favoured choice of everyone. Remainers, Leavers, Tories, Labour, Nationalists, Unionists.
They British people do indeed want this to be settled. By cancelling Brexit.
Hold on, you voted to leave didn't you ?
Yes.
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain People's Vote Labour BRINO/Norway4Now No Deal Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
They British people do indeed want this to be settled. By cancelling Brexit.
Hold on, you voted to leave didn't you ?
Yes.
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain People's Vote Labour BRINO/Norway4Now No Deal Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
I did not expect to say this but have you read that the Scottish Fishermans Federation backs it
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
Once again, Big G, I'd invited you to remove your gums from around whatever part of Theresa May they're currently clamped to, read the words of the PD with thine own eyes, engage your brain, and try to form your own opinion about why they seem to be diametrically opposed to what May was lying to us about last week, and seem suspiciously like exactly what Macron wanted.
You seem to want to assume some superior opinion and at the same time are clearly losing it.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
Do you think we'll get to 90 Tories declared against the deal today?
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
Ignoring my comment on my scots fishing connections then.
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
We're currently at 84 Tories declared against.
How many do you think we'll be at by bedtime?
Have you looked up the Stotfield disaster
As for numbers it is only the numbers on the day of the vote that count
Yes, it is. So humour me, how many Tories do you think May's fishing theatrics today is going to add to the No column?
Might be zero. What do you reckon?
If they actually understand it - as you clearly don't - then none.
The UK fleet also catches/traps a shit-load of crab, lobster and shellfish (such as cockles and whelks) that have no market in the UK - despite us being an 'island nation' - and which get sent to markets in Europe.
We don't eat fish or shellfish (well apart from boneless whitefish which doesn't look like fish) and rarely have done. We're not prepared to pay the cost and we don't know how to cook.
They British people do indeed want this to be settled. By cancelling Brexit.
Hold on, you voted to leave didn't you ?
Yes.
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain People's Vote Labour BRINO/Norway4Now No Deal Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
What do you want though ?
I want people to dance for my amusement.
I thought you were going to go with "May's head on a pike". Interesting change of direction.
Actually the Brexiteers should be pretty pleased with the direction set out in today's document, as it is a little closer to their preferred 'Canada Plus' end-point than Chequers would have been.
'Should' and 'will' are not the same thing, of course. They seem to have got themselves into a mindset of trashing everything even if it's exactly what they've been asking for. More fool them - if they are successful in their trashing, there are only two possible outcomes; either Brexit doesn't happen, or it happens in disaster, in both cases with the added danger of Corbyn.
They British people do indeed want this to be settled. By cancelling Brexit.
Hold on, you voted to leave didn't you ?
Yes.
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain People's Vote Labour BRINO/Norway4Now No Deal Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
If they actually understand it - as you clearly don't - then none.
Over the last week, every time May has made some public statement supporting the deal, the number of Tories publicly declared opposed tends to jump a fair bit.
Based on past trends, May's typically tin eared and oafish handling of the PD should be good for a few more bodies in the red column.
Can anyone please explain to me why access to waters and access to markets need be linked?
We can both export and import goods without requiring or being able to get the other nations natural resources. If we want to import or export oil we so do,.we don't demand or grant free access to oilfields.
Why would we need to grant access to our waters or demand access to others waters rather than simply trading the haddock, herring etc caught?
Perhaps because there is no point catching fish if you can't actually sell them. Just a thought.
Comments
Gove, weirdly, seems to have been chastened by his experiences, he's now a neutered bull.
Do you advise the ERG ?
I can't take the idea seriously that Boris Johnson will be a serious contender for the Tory leadership.
Might there have been a "coup" inside the ERG? Her office as Leader of the House gives Andrea Leadsom a useful string for her bow in the coming shenanigans.
The UK fundamentally disagrees with how the CFP operates
I voted leave. As the vote was close I accepted the need for compromise so was prepared to accept we'd end up with a near BINO. Unfortunately if is now feeling like BAMBINO - Bl**dy Awful May's Brexit In Name Only.
I find my mood hardening. I don't know where it will take me but - for the first time in my life - I cannot now vote Conservative.
Countdown to Doomsday (1990)
Gateway to the Savage Frontier (1991)
UFO: Enemy Unknown (1994)
Civilisation II (1995)
Hearts of Iron 2 (2005)
Neverwinter Nights (2002)
The game I'm playing at the moment is Fallout New Vegas, which at a 2010 release is relatively new, but it's also completely 'settled' meaning what I see is what I get. No one is going to fleece me out of another £20 in the future.
The Tories on 39% with Yougov this week even with UKIP up
Somebody with something sensible to say about Brexit
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dsm52u0XcAEzxEu.jpg
And she confuses passport checks with “Freedom of Movement”.....
I am certain the Country will want that
The UK’s red lines on fish have been protected.
Industry agrees that “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent coastal state with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources” (Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation).
The text acknowledges the UK will be “an independent coastal state” with the rights and responsibilities that entails.
The EU wanted “existing reciprocal access to fishing waters and resources [to] be maintained” but this has been rejected - there is no commitment in the political declaration to maintaining existing access.
Instead the declaration says there will be a fisheries agreement which is a separate agreement and separate negotiation to the FTA.
This is similar to the arrangement Norway, as another independent coastal state, has with the EU - they have a fishing agreement which is separate to their trading arrangements.
Dept of Environment statement.
They're still 2/5 she wins it if it happens.
Yeah no.
May just agreed to allow the EU to hold the UK fishing industry as hostage during trade negotiations. May crossed a red line she promised not to last week. Did the very thing she promised to the cabinet's face not to do.
And best of all, she got NOTHING in return.
Good old May. At least she's consistent.
She has buckled totally to France's demands. Macron took her for a fool, and it seems she was happy to play that role.
https://twitter.com/remkorteweg/status/1065173307769700353
Also, not my style but if you're playing New Vegas on PC check out the New California mod. Sounds like it's essentially a free new game. Bit tricky to set up, apparently, but tons of content.
I would suggest they know a lot mofe about it than your constant anti TM mutterings
It really does seem not. It seems like she cares about nobody or no thing, holds nothing sacred, yearns to preserve nothing.
All that matters, THE ONLY THING, is that May survive another day.
Just Utah to go now.
My wife comes from a Scottish Fishing Community with her late father having been one of Scotlands most successful skippers. I have been associated with the Scottish Fishing Industry for nearly 60 years so do not hector me. This is a good deal for them and certainly a lot better than staying in the EU
In the meantime I can still get pleasure mocking well-meaning saboteurs like you and Richard for mistaking Mrs May's repeated incompetence and lies for "grit". Generally speaking, when people get taken in by charlatans, they tend to be people who are actually good at being charlatans. Not you though. It's a very novel approach. I admire it.
https://twitter.com/Uigeach1/status/1065242941516591104
May lying to her party about not linking trading and fishing gotta be worth a few more red votes against May?
The UK fishing industry? If it will keep May in office another day, onto the bonfire of her vanity it goes.
We can both export and import goods without requiring or being able to get the other nations natural resources. If we want to import or export oil we so do,.we don't demand or grant free access to oilfields.
Why would we need to grant access to our waters or demand access to others waters rather than simply trading the haddock, herring etc caught?
"Responding to the Brexit political declaration today, Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said: “The declaration gives the UK the power to assert its position as an independent Coastal State with full, unfettered sovereignty over our waters and natural resources.
“However we know that several EU nations will not give up their attempts to link access with trade in order to retain absolute rights to fish around our coastline.
“So we will continue to seek assurances from the UK Government that it will remain steadfast and will not rest until the future arrangements are signed, sealed and delivered and we secure that critical control over access to our waters and who catches what stocks, where and when."
https://www.sff.co.uk/statement-political-declaration/
Bet you were surprised when you read that I have a family connection going back generations to the Stotfield Fishing disaster on the 25th December 1806. You should look it up in Wiki, not as a political point scoring, but the effect it had on my wife's forebears
How many do you think we'll be at by bedtime?
Are you calling May a liar?
As for numbers it is only the numbers on the day of the vote that count
Might be zero. What do you reckon?
But the polling is pretty clear. People do want Brexit settled, and what they want is, in order of popularity:
Remain
People's Vote
Labour BRINO/Norway4Now
No Deal
Some other completely insane random made-up nonsense
And then right down at the bottom, May's aborted fetus brexit.
May's talent for being no things to no people, has led to her producing a deal that is the least favoured choice of everyone. Remainers, Leavers, Tories, Labour, Nationalists, Unionists.
She's a great unifier.
'Should' and 'will' are not the same thing, of course. They seem to have got themselves into a mindset of trashing everything even if it's exactly what they've been asking for. More fool them - if they are successful in their trashing, there are only two possible outcomes; either Brexit doesn't happen, or it happens in disaster, in both cases with the added danger of Corbyn.
Based on past trends, May's typically tin eared and oafish handling of the PD should be good for a few more bodies in the red column.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1065605947454889984?s=20