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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile the approval rating of the EU leadership by UK voter

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile the approval rating of the EU leadership by UK voters is at a record high

Since it stopped carrying out voting surveys for the Telegraph after the 2001 general election Gallup has not really been a force in British political polling. This was the firm, of course, that really started the business and on which so much has been based.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,014
    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.
  • He has just moved votes to the deal

  • The GFC seems to have been the watershed.

    Both approval and disapproval have risen by 8% since then.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,832
    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D
  • TM assured as ever and drowning Corbyn in detail
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018
    86 and 87

    Bob Stewart: "I will be highly likely to vote against Mrs May’s deal"
    Rob Halfon: "I do not believe the Prime Minister's deal as it stands fulfils what people have voted for"


    We can do it, guys, the big 100 by the weekend.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 5,850
    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
  • Ha! Corbyn says “Chequers has been chucked”.

    Isn't that what he wanted? It's certainly what Tory rebels wanted.

    (It's even partially true, in that what is being proposed seems to be slightly looser and less cumbersome than Chequers.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,690
    FPT +1

    AEP this morning, basically saying May's deal is a complete disaster.

    But that,

    "My working assumption is that a bloc of Labour MPs will support Theresa May’s package and push it over the top in December."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/21/theresa-mays-culpable-naivety-means-explosive-brexit-showdown/

    That's fantastic. How could anyone not vote for it now? Success is nailed on.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    If May really wants the vote to pass she needs to get Eddie Izzard to say he's against it.
  • Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,690
    Anorak said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
    I am not sure my liver is up to a Jean-Claude Juncker day. Maybe we could give him a couple of hours?
  • This has to be a reflection of the complete failure of the British Gov to handle the negotiations professionally or competently rather than anything else. The EU have highlighted a complete failure of British statecraft as the U.K. Gov has cravenly sought a deal at any price.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,690

    If May really wants the vote to pass she needs to get Eddie Izzard to say he's against it.

    I think she already has Lord Adonis and AEP against. Surely that is enough?
  • Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,754

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

  • Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
  • DavidL said:

    Anorak said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
    I am not sure my liver is up to a Jean-Claude Juncker day. Maybe we could give him a couple of hours?
    I wonder who would win a contest between Jean Claude Juncker and Edward VII.
  • There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    And some of them will resign to vote against.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,014

    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
    Yes - but you would have hoped for a forensic analysis - but you never get that from him
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 5,850

    Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    Most of the country, then.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,754

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    Also, she's forgotten about the implicit seventh, "we just don't want to, ok?" test.
    The tests are designed to be impossible to meet.
  • May's had her Weetabix today.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Anorak said:

    Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    Most of the country, then.
    We don't get a vote.

    Well, not yet.
  • Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,014

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
  • Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 9,349
    edited November 2018
    Bercow called IDS and Cash so far on Tory side.. and now Oklahoma Paterson.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Never in a million cold, dead, desolate years will this horrible bint we call a Prime Minister ever get this Magical Unicorn Withdrawal Agreement through Parliament.
  • Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    IMHO, there are benefits and costs to leaving the EU, though my view is that the benefits outweigh the costs.

    But, it's certainly not possible to leave and have exactly the same benefits. That's like saying a square is a circle.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 2,701

    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    I wonder if it will ever get to a vote. It would be a very unusual step for a government to bring forward a flagship policy when it knows it will be defeated by a substantial majority.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    The declared Tories against just hit 87
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,754

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
    It was originally a quote from David Davis.
  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
  • Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
    It was originally a quote from David Davis.
    That's not much of an appeal to authority!
  • There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    I wonder if it will ever get to a vote. It would be a very unusual step for a government to bring forward a flagship policy when it knows it will be defeated by a substantial majority.
    Yes. The Commons should own any decision that we take in the end, whether it's May's deal, revoking A50, or crashing out.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    You know, there's an easy way for her to put this to the People, perhaps in some kind of Vote.

  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,041

    Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.

    Not a chance
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
  • May seems to be faltering all of sudden. Backstop related detail.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    May seems to be faltering all of sudden. Backstop related detail.

    It's hard for May to put a brave face on the backstop, since it's it the single greatest foreign policy fuckup since Suez and it's hers.
  • malcolmg said:

    Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.

    Not a chance
    I have no idea who would have thought that but so many on here seem to think they know Scots politics
  • Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.
  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    No - the inevitable consequence
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    I mean I'm sure he wants to call a Tory backbencher in favour of May's deal.

    A search party has been dispatched.
  • Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    Big_G is correct.

    Keep your diary free in May/June.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
  • May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    No - the inevitable consequence
    :+1:

    Seems a matter of time to me now. Just a question of when May is forced to pull that trigger.
  • Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880
    edited November 2018

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,384
    Jonathan said:

    T

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    No. Perhaps the ERG are actually a bunch of latent remainers though.
  • Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    I think it's far from certain what the outcome of a second referendum would be.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,246
    edited November 2018

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
    I'll be fine, it'll yield a profit if he becomes leader/PM.

    Plus JohnO gets his peerage and I get my GCMG.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
    Is Raab C Brexit hot? Really?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    T

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    No. Perhaps the ERG are actually a bunch of latent remainers though.
    I *absolutely* would not be surprised if Bojo flipped and became a People's Vote-r.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,384
    Sean_Fear said:

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    I think it's far from certain what the outcome of a second referendum would be.
    The return of Farage in a big way.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880
    edited November 2018
    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)
  • Jonathan said:

    T

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    I do think she has been single minded to get a deal, put it to the HOC, and if it falls she will open it to the will of the HOC
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    The historians will tell us, or perhaps her memoirs.

    It seems at least as likely that she faced the reality and this is the best that could be done.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,429
    edited November 2018

    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
    Yes - but you would have hoped for a forensic analysis - but you never get that from him
    Corbyn has been on the blower, what asked what does forensic mean? He claims he has managed to get to page 10 of the draft withdrawal agreement now. He hopes to get it all read by Christmas...2020.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,384
    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
  • Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
  • I see the disgraced Ian Paisley Junior is back in Parliament.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,506
    edited November 2018
    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will, let's say for argument's sake, a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

  • Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    I see the disgraced Ian Paisley Junior is back in Parliament.

    Another -1 for the deal.

    Every little helps.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880
    edited November 2018

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    "I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right."

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,246
    edited November 2018
    CD13 said:

    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will. let's say for argument's sake. a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

    Have you run out of straw?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,725
    edited November 2018
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right.

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
    She is right, without question. But you are right that she is useless at bringing people with her.
  • Grieve's a no on this by sound of it.
  • Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
  • Sean_Fear said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    Exactly
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,402
    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
    No deal (combined with our legislation) almost certainly precludes short term rejoin - so I don’t see the steps to a second referendum.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right.

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
    She is right, without question. But you are right that she is useless at bringing people with her.
    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
  • Sean_Fear said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    I'm not sure, I think the vote might be lost because of stupid miscalculations on both sides - you see here some people still clinging to the myth that there's some better deal available, and plenty of Brexiteers who have convinced themselves that crashing out without any deal would mean a painless transition to WTO terms with no economic catastrophe in the meantime.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal, there's an A50 extension and Norway4Now, there's a Labour BRINO, there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal. There's Super-remain. There's remain--. There's getting rid of May, apologizing to the EU for wasting their and our time for two years on her incompetence and dishonesty and restarting the whole process, in good faith, this time not under the control of a useless, dishonest and pointless waste of space.

    There are so many possibilities for you as a saboteur to undermine Brexit properly. You just have to let go of your frankly untenable attachment to May.
  • Sky hitting out at Bercow for calling a stream of ERG members
  • Sean_Fear said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    That sums it up pretty much. It's a game of chicken.

    Frankly the Brexiteers have the upper hand in theory, as No-Deal is the current default option.
  • I mean I'm sure he wants to call a Tory backbencher in favour of May's deal.

    A search party has been dispatched.
    Could it be that he doesn't like the proposed deal and so is quite happy to avoid supporting voices
  • Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
  • CD13 said:

    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will, let's say for argument's sake, a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

    A Remain vote would mean the people's will at that point in time was, narrowly, in line with the majority of Parliament.

    The fundamental constitutional problem is that the current leave result is not supported in Parliament.

    It is a f***ing mess.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,506
    Mr Eagles,

    "Have you straw?"

    A valid comment in a Panglossian world. As it's you, I know it's firmly tongue in cheek, but seriously, what do you think would happen?
  • Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal,
    there's an A50 extension -no there isn't
    and Norway4Now-no there isn't
    , there's a Labour BRINO-no there isn't
    , there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. -no there isn't
    There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal.- no there isn't
    There's Super-remain. No there isn't
    There's remain-no there isn't
    .
    Fixed for you.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,880

    Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
    Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.
  • Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal, there's an A50 extension and Norway4Now, there's a Labour BRINO, there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal. There's Super-remain. There's remain--. There's getting rid of May, apologizing to the EU for wasting their and our time for two years on her incompetence and dishonesty and restarting the whole process, in good faith, this time not under the control of a useless, dishonest and pointless waste of space.

    There are so many possibilities for you as a saboteur to undermine Brexit properly. You just have to let go of your frankly untenable attachment to May.
    For the avoidance of doubt, I have zero attachment to Mrs May, I think she's a dreadfully poor leader. That doesn't make her wrong on this point, not does it mean that anyone else could have bamboozled the EU into a better deal - in fact, I think by her obstinacy she's actually done OK.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
    No deal (combined with our legislation) almost certainly precludes short term rejoin - so I don’t see the steps to a second referendum.
    The EU if they were being mean would force us to go through the full accession procedure.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
    Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.
    Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.
  • I was intrigued at Starmer's reaction throughout the PMs statement - he wasn't shaking his head, posturing etc as she went but genuinely seemed to be listening rather than the normal panto reactions....

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal,
    there's an A50 extension -no there isn't
    and Norway4Now-no there isn't
    , there's a Labour BRINO-no there isn't
    , there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. -no there isn't
    There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal.- no there isn't
    There's Super-remain. No there isn't
    There's remain-no there isn't
    .
    Fixed for you.
    The reason you guys have ended up in this mess in the first place was because you listened to May's lies. Continuing to believe her bullshit isn't going to help you out again.
  • Sean_Fear said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.

    So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.

    Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
This discussion has been closed.