Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
May 2017 won a 59 seat majority. Cameron 2015 won a 103 seat majority. Cameron 2010 won a 61 seat majority. Blair 2005 won a 43 seat majority. Blair 2001 won a 117 seat majority Blair 1997 won a 127 seat majority. Major 1992 won a 114 seat majority.
Yet even England backs Remain over No Deal 50% to 40% with Survation.
If England backed No Deal Brexit but Scotland did not you may have a point but England is also opposed to it and even with Brexit the only polls putting Yes ahead in Scotland are with No Deal
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
More devolution is sensible, divorce is a very bad idea
He describes May's deal as "an agreement that would explicitly and indefinitely make Britain a rule-taker but not a rule-maker."
This is simply, factually untrue. We would be a rule maker over 80% of our economy and a rule taker in less than 20%. What a shining example of Remain media bias printing lies.
A rule taker in 20% is too much. We are a G7 nation, one of the 7 largest economies in the world, we can survive on our own and make our own rules thank you very much.
About 2/3 of UK exports go to the EU, China and the USA, all of them have bigger economies than us
So what? Canada copes just fine without having 20% of its laws set by any of those unions. So does Australia. So does New Zealand. So does Singapore. So do plenty of other nations. So can we.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore all have free trade agreements with their nearest neighbours. Canada is also in NAFTA and its successor
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
May 2017 won a 59 seat majority. Cameron 2015 won a 103 seat majority. Cameron 2010 won a 61 seat majority. Blair 2005 won a 43 seat majority. Blair 2001 won a 117 seat majority Blair 1997 won a 127 seat majority. Major 1992 won a 114 seat majority.
In 2005, Bliar won an English majority, but he actually got fewer votes than Howard's Tories.
May, the famous debate dodger, is favourite to beat the magic grandpa? So she bloody should be. If she's only willing to debate on topics she feels comfortable discussing (Brexit being her government's raison d'etre) then the least she can do is beat Obi-wan Corbyni. Anything other than a sound thrashing for the leader of the oppisition will make this yet another farce that dogs her premiership.
If Corbyn gets through with only minor scratches it'll surely just look like May is frit of debating anything that isn't Europe related and show she can't even conclusively beat anyone at that. If that happened it'd be yet another nail in the coffin of the dead woman walking.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
You were going on the other day about people who support staying in the EU as traitors, yet today you are calling for the end of the United Kingdom....
It's becoming clear that the real problem with the referendum was the equal airtime given to both sides. With no obligation to follow normal advertising practices of provable truth the non establishment side could say whatever they liked-and did. The establishment was constrained by the reputation of their office.
Since the referendum the truth or lack of is being slowly peeled back. Evan Davis did a devastating job on where the Referendum has left us. If there is ever another one I hope this is never allowed to happen again
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
You were going on the other day about people who support staying in the EU as traitors, yet today you are calling for the end of the United Kingdom....
Scotland, like any other country, has a right to self-determination. It's inconsistent to support leaving the EU but be against Scottish independence - though that's only if it's what the Scottish people desire.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
Are you suggesting instead of manufacturing Airbus wings in the UK, that every nation that has airplanes should manufacture their own wings?
No, and by trying to reduce the argument to an absurd level you do yourself no favours. In short, economies of scale matter but not to the extreme overriding degree that you suggest. I am suggesting to you that there are downsides as well as some upsides to extreme globalisation.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
More devolution is sensible, divorce is a very bad idea
It's good to know that we have MPs with integrity who will be voting on principle in the meaningful vote.
I assume that you are comfortable that your pension is safe.
My pensions are primarily private pensions - mostly already in payment.
That’s obvious. You’re very keen to take risk with other peoples’ futures when yours is assured. I understand that 40% of Brexit voters think a close relative losing their job as a consequences is acceptable collateral damage.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
You were going on the other day about people who support staying in the EU as traitors, yet today you are calling for the end of the United Kingdom....
Scotland, like any other country, has a right to self-determination. It's inconsistent to support leaving the EU but be against Scottish independence - though that's only if it's what the Scottish people desire.
It's becoming clear that the real problem with the referendum was the equal airtime given to both sides. With no obligation to follow normal advertising practices of provable truth the non establishment side could say whatever they liked-and did. The establishment was constrained by the reputation of their office.
Since the referendum the truth or lack of is being slowly peeled back. Evan Davis did a devastating job on where the Referendum has left us. If there is ever another one I hope this is never allowed to happen again
The Tory press are responsible for 2016 IMO. The influence media outlets like the Daily Mail, the Sun, Daily Express &Daily Telegraph have over people should not be underestimated. Again, today we have heard in some of these media outlets about project fear being rejuvenated by these same media outlets.
The basic crux of the B of E Governor's statement is the UK by leaving the EU will in the best scenarios have lowered its growth rate or rather its ability to grow. In No deal we will be heading for a recession. Brexit supporters counter that we will have trade deals with other countries but this misses the point that the B of E cannot factor in these growth scenarios as they are at present purely hypothetical. Brexit is not hypothetical in this context as we are going to leave in 2019, unless the country wakes up to the prospect of another decade of lower growth, less public spending than would have been the case.
The Tory media are totally disingenuous and live in a fantasy world.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
More devolution is sensible, divorce is a very bad idea
Christ please not more power to the third rates in Cardiff Bay. It’s bad enough as it is.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Well said, fellow Briton. Who are these English people who care so little? Is it because I am Cornish and Celtic but also English? I DO care. The Union Jack is a magnificent flag, so much greater than the sum of its parts, and the same goes for the constituent nations.
We've hung together for 300 years, during which we conquered the world, created the globe's greatest empire, invented modern industry, established global democracy, abolished slavery worldwide, defeated Hitler, defeated communism, imposed English as the world's greatest and most popular language, and when we were having lunch we casually created the computer, TV, the internet and the world's best pop music, and virtually all of the world's most popular sports. All from this rainy, beautiful little island.
Our best days are probably behind us but..... jeez, given our track record, Who knows? We may invent a robot that can invade the nearest galaxy and turn it on to the Smiths.
All the things you cite were done by British people critically working with others across the globe. Some in formal alliances, some not so formal.
We used to be good at working with others and making something better or something new.
Right now we're turned too inward and too backward looking to succeed.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It's good to know that we have MPs with integrity who will be voting on principle in the meaningful vote.
I assume that you are comfortable that your pension is safe.
My pensions are primarily private pensions - mostly already in payment.
That’s obvious. You’re very keen to take risk with other peoples’ futures when yours is assured. I understand that 40% of Brexit voters think a close relative losing their job as a consequences is acceptable collateral damage.
I cannot understand the mentality of the type of people you highlight. They are bonkers! Those who want Brexit because of immigration and the number of immigrants are going to find people they know suffer lots of pain for no gain, the immigrants will still be here. The EU will be on our doorstep and probably stronger and even more integrated than now, which will mean they have even more influence over us with no British representation on its institutions.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It will happen tho. And soon.
Of course, it’s where the EU is going.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Whilst our Brexiteers want to make us unable to influence it, so it develops ignoring or antagonistic to our interests.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Well said, fellow Briton. Who are these English people who care so little? Is it because I am Cornish and Celtic but also English? I DO care. The Union Jack is a magnificent flag, so much greater than the sum of its parts, and the same goes for the constituent nations.
We've hung together for 300 years, during which we conquered the world, created the globe's greatest empire, invented modern industry, established global democracy, abolished slavery worldwide, defeated Hitler, defeated communism, imposed English as the world's greatest and most popular language, and when we were having lunch we casually created the computer, TV, the internet and the world's best pop music, and virtually all of the world's most popular sports. All from this rainy, beautiful little island.
Our best days are probably behind us but..... jeez, given our track record, Who knows? We may invent a robot that can invade the nearest galaxy and turn it on to the Smiths.
One of the sad issues highlighted in brexit is how some ultra englanders are ready to break up the union for their cause
I agree entirely. Carney does a first class job and has probably done more to prepare us for any eventuality than anyone in Government. I rate him as probably the best Governor of the BoE since Brown gave them independence.
Both the media and many politicians behave in a shameful way towards him.
Actually, I'm going to agree with you both here.
To be fair, Carney has stressed this is not what WILL happen but what MIGHT happen but what he has done is illustrate how unprepared May and her Government are for a No Deal Brexit.
This is for me staggering incompetence and ineptitude when local authorities and private companies have been working on contingency planning for months to discover the Government appears to have done next to nothing.
This is the kind of thing for which the Government deserves to be held accountable in that a No Deal Brexit clearly wouldn't be too serious IF adequate and timely contingency planning had been carried out. The fact it hasn't fails to mitigate the risk and makes disruption more likely.
It couldn't and daren't do any serious planning because it has promised business that there is no question of us leaving without a deal.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
More devolution is sensible, divorce is a very bad idea
Christ please not more power to the third rates in Cardiff Bay. It’s bad enough as it is.
With you on that but Scotland is a different matter
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
You were going on the other day about people who support staying in the EU as traitors, yet today you are calling for the end of the United Kingdom....
Scotland, like any other country, has a right to self-determination. It's inconsistent to support leaving the EU but be against Scottish independence - though that's only if it's what the Scottish people desire.
How about Cornwall?
Do the Cornish want to be independent? Obvs. there was once a Celtic kingdom more or less coterminus with the county boundaries, but we'd have to then entertain Wessex, Mercia, Strathclyde and so forth. Internet debatery aside, I'd only class Scotland as having all the trappings of a 'country'. Before the Welsh get apoplectic, I'm half Welsh myself, and my family are stalwarts of the Rhondda and Port Talbot. I don't see an independent Wales as being particularly viable, but who knows? Moldova manages.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It will happen tho. And soon.
Of course, it’s where the EU is going.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Whilst our Brexiteers want to make us unable to influence it, so it develops ignoring or antagonistic to our interests.
+1 They seem to think they will do things for us out of some benevolent instinct. They are sadly deluded. If a political party were running on reducing the ability of the economy to grow in the future they would be massively defeated, this is exactly what Brexit supporters are proposing and it sucks.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It will happen tho. And soon.
Of course, it’s where the EU is going.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Whilst our Brexiteers want to make us unable to influence it, so it develops ignoring or antagonistic to our interests.
I think the idea we could stop the EU going in that direction is rather sweet.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Well said, fellow Briton. Who are these English people who care so little? Is it because I am Cornish and Celtic but also English? I DO care. The Union Jack is a magnificent flag, so much greater than the sum of its parts, and the same goes for the constituent nations.
We've hung together for 300 years, during which we conquered the world, created the globe's greatest empire, invented modern industry, established global democracy, abolished slavery worldwide, defeated Hitler, defeated communism, imposed English as the world's greatest and most popular language, and when we were having lunch we casually created the computer, TV, the internet and the world's best pop music, and virtually all of the world's most popular sports. All from this rainy, beautiful little island.
Our best days are probably behind us but..... jeez, given our track record, Who knows? We may invent a robot that can invade the nearest galaxy and turn it on to the Smiths.
All the things you cite were done by British people critically working with others across the globe. Some in formal alliances, some not so formal.
We used to be good at working with others and making something better or something new.
Right now we're turned too inward and too backward looking to succeed.
Yep. It was all that collaborative soft-left multilateralism that built the greatest empire the world has ever known.
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It will happen tho. And soon.
Of course, it’s where the EU is going.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Whilst our Brexiteers want to make us unable to influence it, so it develops ignoring or antagonistic to our interests.
I think the idea we could stop the EU going in that direction is rather sweet.
If we accepted we were in the EU to stay, why would we want to stop it? The idea that we should measure our influence over the EU by how much we can frustrate the project is nuts.
Maybe we could have a personal Brexit as a compromise. Those individuals who want to Brexit can personally Brexit, those that don't can stay as they are. We could make it a club with two levels of memberships, Deal and Hard.
The only real difference is that the Brexit club members have to pay up somewhere between £1000 and £2000, lose access to certain rights and services and forfeit their right to vote for certain laws that will continue to be set by non-members.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Well said, fellow Briton. Who are these English people who care so little? Is it because I am Cornish and Celtic but also English? I DO care. The Union Jack is a magnificent flag, so much greater than the sum of its parts, and the same goes for the constituent nations.
We've hung together for 300 years, during which we conquered the world, created the globe's greatest empire, invented modern industry, established global democracy, abolished slavery worldwide, defeated Hitler, defeated communism, imposed English as the world's greatest and most popular language, and when we were having lunch we casually created the computer, TV, the internet and the world's best pop music, and virtually all of the world's most popular sports. All from this rainy, beautiful little island.
Our best days are probably behind us but..... jeez, given our track record, Who knows? We may invent a robot that can invade the nearest galaxy and turn it on to the Smiths.
All the things you cite were done by British people critically working with others across the globe. Some in formal alliances, some not so formal.
We used to be good at working with others and making something better or something new.
Right now we're turned too inward and too backward looking to succeed.
Yep. It was all that collaborative soft-left multilateralism that built the greatest empire the world has ever known.
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
We're gonna plummet down the list anyway. Just like France, Italy, Spain, Germany.
India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, a reunited Korea, and Russia will each overtake all those European countries,leaving us down around number 10, 12, 15?. Maybe even Vietnam (population 95m), Nigeria (population 190m), or even Pakistan (population 195m) will overtake.
Eventually, you'd assume. PWC still has us 9th largest GDP by 2050 though ((top 10 China, US, India, Indonesia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, Mexico, UK, Russia).
I loved the haughty, faintly desperate French reaction, today, to the German minister's suggestion that France shares her UNSC seat with the rest of the EU. The French were keen to share the might of the D-Mark, somehow they are less keen on quid pro quo and sharing diplomatic power with Germany, Italy etc.
It will happen tho. And soon.
Of course, it’s where the EU is going.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Whilst our Brexiteers want to make us unable to influence it, so it develops ignoring or antagonistic to our interests.
I think the idea we could stop the EU going in that direction is rather sweet.
If we accepted we were in the EU to stay, why would we want to stop it? The idea that we should measure our influence over the EU by how much we can frustrate the project is nuts.
From a europhile’s perspective that viewpoint is absolutely right: their view is that you fully participate in the project, and assist as fast as you can in moving political integration forwards, in order to ultimately have a greater say in the federal level policies it will eventually adopt across all areas.
There are others who consider that bonkers and don’t see trading a modelled 33% GDP growth to 2030 to a modelled 37% growth as material, next to that.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Well said, fellow Briton. Who are these English people who care so little? Is it because I am Cornish and Celtic but also English? I DO care. The Union Jack is a magnificent flag, so much greater than the sum of its parts, and the same goes for the constituent nations.
We've hung together for 300 years, during which we conquered the world, created the globe's greatest empire, invented modern industry, established global democracy, abolished slavery worldwide, defeated Hitler, defeated communism, imposed English as the world's greatest and most popular language, and when we were having lunch we casually created the computer, TV, the internet and the world's best pop music, and virtually all of the world's most popular sports. All from this rainy, beautiful little island.
Our best days are probably behind us but..... jeez, given our track record, Who knows? We may invent a robot that can invade the nearest galaxy and turn it on to the Smiths.
One of the sad issues highlighted in brexit is how some ultra englanders are ready to break up the union for their cause
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I gs like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
Remainers continue to fail to understand that Brexiteers prioritise political independence over a nominal (modelled) level of a slightly higher GDP growth rate. Every. Single. Time. Political and economic disintegration with the EU, and divergence, is broadly correlated with nominal GDP growth rates at present as our economy is currently built around the assumptions of the former.
For the avoidance of doubt, I was speaking with a Brexiteer audience to underline the silliness of arguing this deal is a sell out.
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
I think we're a long way past what anyone wants by now
Are you suggesting instead of manufacturing Airbus wings in the UK, that every nation that has airplanes should manufacture their own wings?
No, and by trying to reduce the argument to an absurd level you do yourself no favours. In short, economies of scale matter but not to the extreme overriding degree that you suggest. I am suggesting to you that there are downsides as well as some upsides to extreme globalisation.
Its not an absurd level. The reality is in 2018 nations do not produce everything they consume. Yes we are importing some chemicals that are only produced in fewer nations than they're consumed. That's not a failing any more than those nations importing airplane wings is a failing.
Maybe we could have a personal Brexit as a compromise. Those individuals who want to Brexit can personally Brexit, those that don't can stay as they are. We could make it a club with two levels of memberships, Deal and Hard.
The only real difference is that the Brexit club members have to pay up somewhere between £1000 and £2000, lose access to certain rights and services and forfeit their right to vote for certain laws that will continue to be set by non-members.
They should be happy.
Only if we can we have this for Corbynism as well.
I have a feeling that by making the prognostications of doom quite so... doomey, the Bank is overplaying its hand.
By being so extreme, they look less like serious forecasts and more like a coordinated political gangbang.
This isn't going to change a single mind, since Leavers weren't going to believe them anyway, but by making the forecasts so bad, it's just going to enrage Tory leavers and further steel their determination against May.
Are you suggesting instead of manufacturing Airbus wings in the UK, that every nation that has airplanes should manufacture their own wings?
No, and by trying to reduce the argument to an absurd level you do yourself no favours. In short, economies of scale matter but not to the extreme overriding degree that you suggest. I am suggesting to you that there are downsides as well as some upsides to extreme globalisation.
Its not an absurd level. The reality is in 2018 nations do not produce everything they consume. Yes we are importing some chemicals that are only produced in fewer nations than they're consumed. That's not a failing any more than those nations importing airplane wings is a failing.
Completely off topic, can anyone help me please? I'm trying to find out what proportion of households have NHS staff in them? I believe I read somewhere that it was 10% but I'm not sure if that was NHS, teachers or if I've made it up.
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
I think we're a long way past what anyone wants by now
What you mustn't do in politics, is listen to people.
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
I think we're a long way past what anyone wants by now
Not at all. I’m happy with the deal and it’s better than expected. I’m not even that worried by the backstop anymore.
But, it doesn’t matter what I think. We will end up bouncing back into a fully federal EU because we are governed by a plethora of retards.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
I am another who does not care about the Union at all. I would be very happy to see Scots being able to decide all their own laws, not just the scraps they are allowed from Westminster.
You were going on the other day about people who support staying in the EU as traitors, yet today you are calling for the end of the United Kingdom....
Scotland, like any other country, has a right to self-determination. It's inconsistent to support leaving the EU but be against Scottish independence - though that's only if it's what the Scottish people desire.
How about Cornwall?
Do the Cornish want to be independent? Obvs. there was once a Celtic kingdom more or less coterminus with the county boundaries, but we'd have to then entertain Wessex, Mercia, Strathclyde and so forth. Internet debatery aside, I'd only class Scotland as having all the trappings of a 'country'. Before the Welsh get apoplectic, I'm half Welsh myself, and my family are stalwarts of the Rhondda and Port Talbot. I don't see an independent Wales as being particularly viable, but who knows? Moldova manages.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Shouldn’t Scotland be allowed independence if they wantt it?
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
Completely off topic, can anyone help me please? I'm trying to find out what proportion of households have NHS staff in them? I believe I read somewhere that it was 10% but I'm not sure if that was NHS, teachers or if I've made it up.
Given that the NHS employs about 1.5 million people and there are about 27 million UK households, it isn't going to be 10%, particularly considering the propensity of people with such a big employer to marry each other or follow in their parents' footsteps, etc. I guess if the criterion included retired NHS employees the number might approach 10%, since there must be a lot of those
Completely off topic, can anyone help me please? I'm trying to find out what proportion of households have NHS staff in them? I believe I read somewhere that it was 10% but I'm not sure if that was NHS, teachers or if I've made it up.
That sounds rather high. There are over 27 million UK households, so 10% would be 2.7 million. Average household is 2.4 people, and of course many households with NHS workers (inc my own) contain 2 NHS workers. I would have thought that 5% of households approximately sounds about right.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Shouldn’t Scotland be allowed independence if they wantt it?
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
Yes of course but Norway deal or remain makes it less likely
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Shouldn’t Scotland be allowed independence if they wantt it?
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
Who said they should be chained against their will? I believe they should be allowed it if they want it, that won't stop me from pleading with them not to, nor does it prevent me disagreeing, strongly, with people who denigrate the nature of the union, just as people who see no value in it (and there are many in England as there are in Scotland) can disagree with my praise of it.
I think a basic position of not believing economic predictions rarely hurts individuals, but I'm sure Krugman has also been very wrong about things before, and motivated by politics.
I mean if the sorry saga of Brexit doesn't convince Scots that the English are an omnishambolic wall of piss, wind and gammon they're better off shot of, I dunno what will.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Shouldn’t Scotland be allowed independence if they wantt it?
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
Who said they should be chained against their will? I believe they should be allowed it if they want it, that won't stop me from pleading with them not too, nor does it prevent me disagreeing, strongly, with people who denigrate the nature of the union, just as people who see no value in it (and there are many in England as there are in Scotland) can disagree with my praise of it.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Shouldn’t Scotland be allowed independence if they wantt it?
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I
I'm not one to say economic pain is of no concern, but surely it is a very modern, trendy liberal position in this day and age to believe that economic growth is not everything.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I
I'm not one to say economic pain is of no concern, but surely it is a very modern, trendy liberal position in this day and age to believe that economic growth is not everything.
If we measure the wellbeing of society by the level of shouting, we're going to be very prosperous indeed.
Chequers -0.6% to -2.5% May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
Yep. It’s better than Chequers.
You actually THINK IT IS BETTER TO HAVE A LOWER RATE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH? I cannot understand why usually normal rational people think lowering the ability of the UK to grow in the future is good. Unless you have signed up to Corbyn's agenda and that will not end well. Lower growth means less scope to do things like investing in the military, cutting taxes for businesses or individuals and other public spending decisions....
You sound like someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing
He describes May's deal as "an agreement that would explicitly and indefinitely make Britain a rule-taker but not a rule-maker."
This is simply, factually untrue. We would be a rule maker over 80% of our economy and a rule taker in less than 20%. What a shining example of Remain media bias printing lies.
A rule taker in 20% is too much. We are a G7 nation, one of the 7 largest economies in the world, we can survive on our own and make our own rules thank you very much.
About 2/3 of UK exports go to the EU, China and the USA, all of them have bigger economies than us
So what? Canada copes just fine without having 20% of its laws set by any of those unions. So does Australia. So does New Zealand. So does Singapore. So do plenty of other nations. So can we.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore all have free trade agreements with their nearest neighbours. Canada is also in NAFTA and its successor
Indeed so ultimately we should seek to get a Canadian style FTA with our nearest neighbours too. No need to be part of a political union though. If a Candian style FTA is not available at the moment I'm prepared to transition via a backstop of no deal until the EU is willing to talk and offer an FTA to the whole of our country.
I mean if the sorry saga of Brexit doesn't convince Scots that the English are an omnishambolic wall of piss, wind and gammon they're better off shot of, I dunno what will.
Before anyone takes the Hammond and May's Treasury's estimates of the effect of Brexit as gospel, they need to read the other side of the argument and take a view on what Minford considers to be the "absurd" assumptions used to underpin earlier forecasts:
Minford's conclusion: "What this all comes down to is, if you use the correct assumptions, you get substantial gains from Brexit under either Canada+ or a World Trade deal under WTO rules. It is only if you make the absurd assumptions embraced by Whitehall that you get the large negative effects they forecast. These assumptions – whose absurdity anyone can understand with a moment’s thought – are the skeleton in the Chancellor’s cupboard. No wonder he refuses to open the cupboard; but we must insist."
I love Patrick Minford, but for a second imagine that all tariffs were unilaterally removed. It would decimate rural England, because we'd be holding our own farmers to much higher costs (i.e. standards) than those from abroad. The number of Conservatives in rural seats - and there are a lot of them - voting in favour would be... ummm... zero.
I mean if the sorry saga of Brexit doesn't convince Scots that the English are an omnishambolic wall of piss, wind and gammon they're better off shot of, I dunno what will.
Not regaining control of fish?
I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea the people of these isles were so fish-horny.
Strip out the tertiary nations in the UK and England is very fair and balanced politically. Instead of struggling to get a small working majority or none at all, Cameron, Major and May would all be comparable to Tony Blair, either at his peak or in 2005. I am OK with that.
It's a shame the Scots were too feart to seek independence, but oh well I can live with that.
If all the other nations were full members of the EU, would you still want England to be fully detached from it, or would it make sense to integrate?
Yes. I want the MPs we elect to set our laws. That's why I supported Yes in 2014. I would like a free trade agreement with Scotland, but I see no reason to be in a union with them if they no longer wish it.
But like a big brother I'm OK with them tagging along with us if that's what they want. I wouldn't want to kick them out or us to seek independence from them, they can go if they want or they can stay, I'm OK either way.
I am sorry to see such an attitude to our union and Scotland. If my wife read that she would be furious. A Scot who is absolutely proud of our union
Would she be equally furious with @malcomg and the 45% of her Scottish compatriots who voted for independence? Why is it shocking for an Englishman to prefer an independent England (so long as the Scots want that themselves) but its perfectly OK for a Scot to prefer an independent Scotland (regardless of what the English may or may not want)?
I love my brothers but we've all grown up and moved out of the family home. That doesn't diminish my love for them. Scotland can be like Australia, New Zealand and Canada, a fond relative but no longer in the same abode.
Before anyone takes the Hammond and May's Treasury's estimates of the effect of Brexit as gospel, they need to read the other side of the argument and take a view on what Minford considers to be the "absurd" assumptions used to underpin earlier forecasts:
Minford's conclusion: "What this all comes down to is, if you use the correct assumptions, you get substantial gains from Brexit under either Canada+ or a World Trade deal under WTO rules. It is only if you make the absurd assumptions embraced by Whitehall that you get the large negative effects they forecast. These assumptions – whose absurdity anyone can understand with a moment’s thought – are the skeleton in the Chancellor’s cupboard. No wonder he refuses to open the cupboard; but we must insist."
I love Patrick Minford, but for a second imagine that all tariffs were unilaterally removed. It would decimate rural England, because we'd be holding our own farmers to much higher costs (i.e. standards) than those from abroad. The number of Conservatives in rural seats - and there are a lot of them - voting in favour would be... ummm... zero.
He starts from a politically impossible premise.
Yeah the decimation of rural New Zealand was tragic.
Well, the second round of Carney's Project Fear should bolster support for May's Deal considerably as it is either (seemingly) a bad Deal or economic catastrophe.
What comes out clearly from Carney is less the consequences of leaving a No Deal than leaving without having adequately prepared for No Deal. It's evident much of the "damage" could and indeed should be mitigated by reasonable and timely contingency planning but while some large companies and many local authorities have spent time and resource on it, central Government, it appears, has not.
I find that hard to believe but if true it's colossal negligence for which May and others need to be held to account. The problem is in the relief and euphoria that we will have saved ourselves going over the cliff edge no one will bother to ask how we got to the stage when the only option was a poor deal.
Part of the problem, of course, is that Mrs May (and her team, including David Davis) spent a lot of time going round telling business that - while we'd be leaving the EU, we'd have a close trading relationship, and they shouldn't defer investments in the UK.
All our negotiations need to be seen through that prism.
Before anyone takes the Hammond and May's Treasury's estimates of the effect of Brexit as gospel, they need to read the other side of the argument and take a view on what Minford considers to be the "absurd" assumptions used to underpin earlier forecasts:
Minford's conclusion: "What this all comes down to is, if you use the correct assumptions, you get substantial gains from Brexit under either Canada+ or a World Trade deal under WTO rules. It is only if you make the absurd assumptions embraced by Whitehall that you get the large negative effects they forecast. These assumptions – whose absurdity anyone can understand with a moment’s thought – are the skeleton in the Chancellor’s cupboard. No wonder he refuses to open the cupboard; but we must insist."
I love Patrick Minford, but for a second imagine that all tariffs were unilaterally removed. It would decimate rural England, because we'd be holding our own farmers to much higher costs (i.e. standards) than those from abroad. The number of Conservatives in rural seats - and there are a lot of them - voting in favour would be... ummm... zero.
He starts from a politically impossible premise.
We could of course say all tariffs are zero on food but you have to match our food standards to export to us and it is UK food inspectors that will visit your food producers to say yes or no.
Comments
If England backed No Deal Brexit but Scotland did not you may have a point but England is also opposed to it and even with Brexit the only polls putting Yes ahead in Scotland are with No Deal
If Corbyn gets through with only minor scratches it'll surely just look like May is frit of debating anything that isn't Europe related and show she can't even conclusively beat anyone at that. If that happened it'd be yet another nail in the coffin of the dead woman walking.
Since the referendum the truth or lack of is being slowly peeled back. Evan Davis did a devastating job on where the Referendum has left us. If there is ever another one I hope this is never allowed to happen again
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/world-2050/assets/pwc-the-world-in-2050-full-report-feb-2017.pdf#page=68
The basic crux of the B of E Governor's statement is the UK by leaving the EU will in the best scenarios have lowered its growth rate or rather its ability to grow. In No deal we will be heading for a recession. Brexit supporters counter that we will have trade deals with other countries but this misses the point that the B of E cannot factor in these growth scenarios as they are at present purely hypothetical. Brexit is not hypothetical in this context as we are going to leave in 2019, unless the country wakes up to the prospect of another decade of lower growth, less public spending than would have been the case.
The Tory media are totally disingenuous and live in a fantasy world.
We used to be good at working with others and making something better or something new.
Right now we're turned too inward and too backward looking to succeed.
And our MPs will make sure we’re part of it.
Huawei: Why has UK not blocked Chinese firm's 5G kit?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46370014
Who knew what when.
https://twitter.com/MiamiHerald/status/1067778749276536832?s=19
Brexit may have driven me to embrace my Irish side, but I have a huge affection for the UK and would never wish it ill. That is why I oppose Brexit.
ERG morons too dumb to see it.
May's agreed Deal -2.1% to -3.9%
"Better than Chequers"?
The only real difference is that the Brexit club members have to pay up somewhere between £1000 and £2000, lose access to certain rights and services and forfeit their right to vote for certain laws that will continue to be set by non-members.
They should be happy.
There are others who consider that bonkers and don’t see trading a modelled 33% GDP growth to 2030 to a modelled 37% growth as material, next to that.
For the avoidance of doubt, I was speaking with a Brexiteer audience to underline the silliness of arguing this deal is a sell out.
By being so extreme, they look less like serious forecasts and more like a coordinated political gangbang.
This isn't going to change a single mind, since Leavers weren't going to believe them anyway, but by making the forecasts so bad, it's just going to enrage Tory leavers and further steel their determination against May.
But, it doesn’t matter what I think. We will end up bouncing back into a fully federal EU because we are governed by a plethora of retards.
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1067854650471313408
I hope Carney is ready for a backlash.
https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1067796050805776391?s=21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria
Being able to lie convincingly and fake sincerity is the one skill a politician _has_ to master, yet it seems quite beyond her.
It’s only the morons resulting to baseless windy rhetoric and crys of betrayal.
I’d be sad to see them go but I’m not going to chain them
But do it with sincerity
(Just to be clear, I have never heard any credible allegations against Clinton on this sort of matter so there is no implication otherwise)
Yes 45%
He starts from a politically impossible premise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajqYgOmqGyg
(*That was a lie**)
(**So was that)
(Or was it..?)
I love my brothers but we've all grown up and moved out of the family home. That doesn't diminish my love for them. Scotland can be like Australia, New Zealand and Canada, a fond relative but no longer in the same abode.
It needed 40% less doom, at least.
All our negotiations need to be seen through that prism.