My problem with medical use of weed is the risk/benefit analysis, or rather the lack of it. Registered drugs have side-effects as well as benefits; before being registered, this needs to be assessed. That's why the 'benefits' need to be seen to be real in scientific studies.
If this goes ahead, I await the first major law-suit against the suppliers. I worked for Roche, in toxicology, for more than 16 years during the heyday of the benzos. They, like many drugs, are receptor-mediated, and thus rebound can occur. Some people will have idiosyncratic reactions to any drug. I worry this is politicians going for the popular and ignoring the unforeseen (for them) consequences.
Although I never made marketing decisions, I'd have always erred on the cautious side. Public opinion is fickle, and being on the right side now is no guarantee.
Edit: By all means, accelerate the process, but keep a process.
I wouldn't suggest we go crazy with it or anything. At first you only go for patients with the most serious conditions, either ones for who other treatments don't work or for people who the alternative treatments come with terrible side effects.
I was actually thinking of worse than this but for example
The downsides of marijuana are pretty well known, it must be one of the worlds most widely used drugs. Looking at the difference it makes for the guy above and taking into account that alcohol is actually worse for you would you suggest the guy with Parkinson above would be better off drinking a couple of shots or suffering like he was?
By all means we should do as much testing as we can but the reasons for holding marijuana back from people with the most serious conditions are false, it does them far more good than harm.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Nowhere near enough tattoos. Come to think of it If it wasn't for so many young people and the absence of Conservative associations and the lack of sunshine I'd have thought I was in Ludlow.
Wasn't the Mediterranean coastline just a bit of a giveaway that you weren't?!
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Do they execute Monkeys?
Isn't that Gibraltar? Malta is much more civilized than Gibraltar which reminds me of Stockport shopping precinct
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Nowhere near enough tattoos. Come to think of it If it wasn't for so many young people and the absence of Conservative associations and the lack of sunshine I'd have thought I was in Ludlow.
remember Roger Malta is only independent because the friends of Mussolini wouldnt go to the polls. but then youve always been a sucker for those young snappy folk in tight Hugo Boss outfits and synchronised demos. :-)
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
He wasn't injected. He had an incision made in his arm and the different kinds of pustule rubbed in it.
(That said, I agree with your substantive point. Given marijuana has been used freely in the west for 100 years its side effects must be pretty well known. And it's hard to see what damage it's likely to do in cases of terminal illness.)
If this goes ahead, I await the first major law-suit against the suppliers. I worked for Roche, in toxicology, for more than 16 years during the heyday of the benzos. They, like many drugs, are receptor-mediated, and thus rebound can occur. Some people will have idiosyncratic reactions to any drug. I worry this is politicians going for the popular and ignoring the unforeseen (for them) consequences.
Although I never made marketing decisions, I'd have always erred on the cautious side. Public opinion is fickle, and being on the right side now is no guarantee.
Edit: By all means, accelerate the process, but keep a process.
I wouldn't suggest we go crazy with it or anything. At first you only go for patients with the most serious conditions, either ones for who other treatments don't work or for people who the alternative treatments come with terrible side effects.
I was actually thinking of worse than this but for example
The downsides of marijuana are pretty well known, it must be one of the worlds most widely used drugs. Looking at the difference it makes for the guy above and taking into account that alcohol is actually worse for you would you suggest the guy with Parkinson above would be better off drinking a couple of shots or suffering like he was?
By all means we should do as much testing as we can but the reasons for holding marijuana back from people with the most serious conditions are false, it does them far more good than harm.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
I think there is a medical benefit from some molecules within marijuana. There are cannabinoid based pharmaceuticals that have been approved based on randomised clinical trials.
However there have not (as far as I am aware) been statistically significant RCTs on marijuana itself. There are also real problems around quality and consistency of the product. As a result there is no sound basis for approving marijuana as a medical product: at the moment your argument is “some sick people used marijuana and felt better” without excluding the possibility it was a placebo effect, random chance, or some other factor.
Of course you can make an argument for allowing access to marijuana for sick patients with no alternative. But let’s not pretend this is based on science or is part of the medical regulatory framework (I know it’s frustratingly slow at times but it is there for a reason). It’s simply a political decision.
Okay that's fair enough, although I would point out the reason we knew about the medical benefits of marijuana and started investigating it is because people who were ill, who marijuana helped told us, you do get crazy stoners who claim it cures anything and everything (which is silly) but it genuinely does have a medical benefit for some conditions.
You don't have large numbers of people with serious conditions all claiming that they have to pop e's on the weekend, or that they have to go out drinking especially when it wasn't something they did before their illness.
Also people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect. Given that some of them would have tried various medicines first they would have had the placebo effect already from a different drug they tried. The medicines we produce from marijuana don't actually create anything new in the marijuana, they take parts from marijuana which work when you use the marijuana as it is. Obviously if you are using saying oils there is a process but that is the same process you would use to create recreational marijuana.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
He wasn't injected. He had an incision made in his arm and the different kinds of pustule rubbed in it.
(That said, I agree with your substantive point. Given marijuana has been used freely in the west for 100 years its side effects must be pretty well known. And it's hard to see what damage it's likely to do in cases of terminal illness.)
My mistake on the detail, ydoethur, thanks for the correction.
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Nowhere near enough tattoos. Come to think of it If it wasn't for so many young people and the absence of Conservative associations and the lack of sunshine I'd have thought I was in Ludlow.
With analysis of this quality it is a mystery to me why anyone voted for Brexit.
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Do they execute Monkeys?
Isn't that Gibraltar? Malta is much more civilized than Gibraltar which reminds me of Stockport shopping precinct
I think he means the alleged foreign spy monkey during the Napoleonic Wars. Although the story is likely made up.
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Nowhere near enough tattoos. Come to think of it If it wasn't for so many young people and the absence of Conservative associations and the lack of sunshine I'd have thought I was in Ludlow.
Wasn't the Mediterranean coastline just a bit of a giveaway that you weren't?!
Alanbrooke often talks fondly about the Mediterranian coastline in Ludlow
I wouldn't suggest we go crazy with it or anything. At first you only go for patients with the most serious conditions, either ones for who other treatments don't work or for people who the alternative treatments come with terrible side effects.
I was actually thinking of worse than this but for example
The downsides of marijuana are pretty well known, it must be one of the worlds most widely used drugs. Looking at the difference it makes for the guy above and taking into account that alcohol is actually worse for you would you suggest the guy with Parkinson above would be better off drinking a couple of shots or suffering like he was?
By all means we should do as much testing as we can but the reasons for holding marijuana back from people with the most serious conditions are false, it does them far more good than harm.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Slightly different old bean. In fact the Thalidomide example undermines your argument that only drugs that have gone through the approved regulatory process of testing should be allowed,. Thalidomide was tested (on animals) and passed on that basis.
Looks like the cabinet is turning toward no deal rather than no brexit when May's deal fails.
Let's hope Brussels thinks that, eh?
I don't think that you can rely on others to save us from No Deal.
But it is still probably your best hope.
If we No Deal Brexit, it will represent the biggest fuck up of diplomocy since [Morris Dancer to insert example from about 3,000 years ago].
"We have the Brits exactly where we want them. Their only option is to crash out and they would never....FUUUUUUUUUCK! That crazy woman is actually going to crash out....."
We'll all have a ringside seat as the Tory Party destroys its credibility.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Your point seems like the equivalent of leaving a person starving because we can't be sure the food from the fridge has been kept at the exact right chilled temperature.
As they start to black out as their body shuts down preparing to die you shout at them telling them they you are saving them from potential food poisoning.
Do you really think you are helping people with seriously debilitating conditions who have a big improvement of quality of life by using marijuana with your arguments?
What is someone whose life is barely worth living without the use of marijuana potentially losing in your mind?!
I'm not proposing we give it to a 6 year old with a baddie on his knee, people with serious conditions who have very little quality of life.
Looks like the cabinet is turning toward no deal rather than no brexit when May's deal fails.
The Cabinet backs May's Deal but given both the Deal and EUref2 require Commons majorities which are not clear No Deal as the default must be prepared for
Of course you can make an argument for allowing access to marijuana for sick patients with no alternative. But let’s not pretend this is based on science or is part of the medical regulatory framework (I know it’s frustratingly slow at times but it is there for a reason). It’s simply a political decision.
Okay that's fair enough, although I would point out the reason we knew about the medical benefits of marijuana and started investigating it is because people who were ill, who marijuana helped told us, you do get crazy stoners who claim it cures anything and everything (which is silly) but it genuinely does have a medical benefit for some conditions.
You don't have large numbers of people with serious conditions all claiming that they have to pop e's on the weekend, or that they have to go out drinking especially when it wasn't something they did before their illness.
Also people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect. Given that some of them would have tried various medicines first they would have had the placebo effect already from a different drug they tried. The medicines we produce from marijuana don't actually create anything new in the marijuana, they take parts from marijuana which work when you use the marijuana as it is. Obviously if you are using saying oils there is a process but that is the same process you would use to create recreational marijuana.
Sure. A lot of pharmaceutical discovery starts with non scientific observation. Aspirin was discovered because people wondered why bears would go miles out of their way to find willow trees to chew
You can’t say “people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect”. It’s effectively belief that triggers the reaction (it’s also the basis of faith healing)
Additionally you can’t argue that because the pharmacologically active substances are derivatives of marijuana that marijuana works. If you want me to start talking about PK dynamics, area under the curve, and time to Cmax I can but suggest you just take my word for it!
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
the Hartlepool of the Medterranean
Do they execute Monkeys?
odd to think that Malta could have been as british as hartlepool if the 1956 referendum had gone the right way.
Then Roger could have complained about overcrowded streets, shabby buildings and fat Maltese littering the beaches.
IIRC it did go the right way but we turned them down because we couldn't afford it?
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Your point seems like the equivalent of leaving a person starving because we can't be sure the food from the fridge has been kept at the exact right chilled temperature.
As they start to black out as their body shuts down preparing to die you shout at them telling them they you are saving them from potential food poisoning.
Do you really think you are helping people with seriously debilitating conditions who have a big improvement of quality of life by using marijuana with your arguments?
What is someone whose life is barely worth living without the use of marijuana potentially losing in your mind?!
I'm not proposing we give it to a 6 year old with a baddie on his knee, people with serious conditions who have very little quality of life.
Spot on. Why you would stop someone from taking a medicine that they feel improves their quality of life enormously and where they know the potential risks and downside on the basis it has not been approved is beyond me.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Your point seems like the equivalent of leaving a person starving because we can't be sure the food from the fridge has been kept at the exact right chilled temperature.
As they start to black out as their body shuts down preparing to die you shout at them telling them they you are saving them from potential food poisoning.
Do you really think you are helping people with seriously debilitating conditions who have a big improvement of quality of life by using marijuana with your arguments?
What is someone whose life is barely worth living without the use of marijuana potentially losing in your mind?!
I'm not proposing we give it to a 6 year old with a baddie on his knee, people with serious conditions who have very little quality of life.
Spot on. Why you would stop someone from taking a medicine that they feel improves their quality of life enormously and where they know the potential risks and downside on the basis it has not been approved is beyond me.
Also people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect. Given that some of them would have tried various medicines first they would have had the placebo effect already from a different drug they tried. The medicines we produce from marijuana don't actually create anything new in the marijuana, they take parts from marijuana which work when you use the marijuana as it is. Obviously if you are using saying oils there is a process but that is the same process you would use to create recreational marijuana.
Sure. A lot of pharmaceutical discovery starts with non scientific observation. Aspirin was discovered because people wondered why bears would go miles out of their way to find willow trees to chew
You can’t say “people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect”. It’s effectively belief that triggers the reaction (it’s also the basis of faith healing)
Additionally you can’t argue that because the pharmacologically active substances are derivatives of marijuana that marijuana works. If you want me to start talking about PK dynamics, area under the curve, and time to Cmax I can but suggest you just take my word for it!
Arguably it's closer to we discovered that eating vegetables was healthy and good for you. It always was we just hadn't discovered it yet. Similarly the active compounds in marijuana that provide the medical benefit were there before we discovered them.
Considering the range of people and that other medicines they used which should have provided the placebo effect but didn't . Also the range of people who use it have no religious beliefs in it that would cause a placebo effect with especially marijuana but not any of the other medicines they used before. There seems no logical reason why all these people would have a this same reproducible placebo effect with only marijuana but not other things.
When it does that it is generally just known as medicine no more placebo than other medicine.
We can argue that marijuana works though if they are simply attempting to copy the effects. Because marijuana is already an effective drug they aren't using some small part of it and mixing it with other stuff to create something new. The main thing they are trying to do is isolate the already medically effective part without the rest. Or increase strength, decrease stoned effects etc.
Looks like the cabinet is turning toward no deal rather than no brexit when May's deal fails.
Let's hope Brussels thinks that, eh?
I don't think that you can rely on others to save us from No Deal.
But it is still probably your best hope.
If we No Deal Brexit, it will represent the biggest fuck up of diplomocy since [Morris Dancer to insert example from about 3,000 years ago].
"We have the Brits exactly where we want them. Their only option is to crash out and they would never....FUUUUUUUUUCK! That crazy woman is actually going to crash out....."
...we don't have to go back that far. I'd nominate July 1914, when the Austrians considered the Kaiser had given them a blank cheque to take whatever measures they felt necessary against Serbia.
Any views on this story in Telegraph that A50 can't be extended past July, as otherwise we would need to elect a new round of MEPs?
A referendum could, just about, be held in May?
The referendum could be held at any time. It is not clear why the Telegraph's informant mentioned it at all. The point about needing to elect new MEPs if Article 50 were revoked or extended will presumably be discussed at the Cabinet meeting called for today.
I wouldn't suggest we go crazy with it or anything. At first you only go for patients with the most serious conditions, either ones for who other treatments don't work or for people who the alternative treatments come with terrible side effects.
I was actually thinking of worse than this but for example
The downsides of marijuana are pretty well known, it must be one of the worlds most widely used drugs. Looking at the difference it makes for the guy above and taking into account that alcohol is actually worse for you would you suggest the guy with Parkinson above would be better off drinking a couple of shots or suffering like he was?
By all means we should do as much testing as we can but the reasons for holding marijuana back from people with the most serious conditions are false, it does them far more good than harm.
I know not all will appreciate comparing dogs with people but our dog has aggressive terminal cancer and was / is in a lot of pain that stopped her eating. We gave her CBD twice a day and it definitely made an improvement, she started to eat again and was able to go on decent, if not longish, walks. We then took her off once she started her chemotherapy treatment on the advice of the vets (to be fair, they said they just did not know what would be the effects with the chemo as there was no research). She has now gone back to not eating and being lethargic so we have decided to start again. I know other dog owners who have said that CBD has also being a big benefit to their dogs with cancer.
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Slightly different old bean. In fact the Thalidomide example undermines your argument that only drugs that have gone through the approved regulatory process of testing should be allowed,. Thalidomide was tested (on animals) and passed on that basis.
Thalidomide was the reason why the current process was introduced!
Perhaps we should cancel the second to pay for the first ?
Yes the coalition tried to artificially reduce government borrowing by replacing government funding to universities with loans to pay tuition fees. Essentially replacing public sector debt born by taxpayers in general with off balance sheet private sector debt born by students. Now it turns out that those loans are not in the large part going to be repaid, so we're back to square one with much of those dodgy loans having to become public sector debt again.
I wouldn't suggest we go crazy with it or anything. At first you only go for patients with the most serious conditions, either ones for who other treatments don't work or for people who the alternative treatments come with terrible side effects.
I was actually thinking of worse than this but for example
The downsides of marijuana are pretty well known, it must be one of the worlds most widely used drugs. Looking at the difference it makes for the guy above and taking into account that alcohol is actually worse for you would you suggest the guy with Parkinson above would be better off drinking a couple of shots or suffering like he was?
By all means we should do as much testing as we can but the reasons for holding marijuana back from people with the most serious conditions are false, it does them far more good than harm.
Hey there’s this medicine that’s really good at stopping morning sickness
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
Slightly different old bean. In fact the Thalidomide example undermines your argument that only drugs that have gone through the approved regulatory process of testing should be allowed,. Thalidomide was tested (on animals) and passed on that basis.
Thalidomide was the reason why the current process was introduced!
You are proposing to ignore it
I'm not choosing to ignore it. What I am saying is that, if people are fully aware that there is a risk but they want to take it because they believe the drug in question helps them, then they should. Your statement assumes the current system is 100% foolproof - Vikoxx is a classic example.
Perhaps we should cancel the second to pay for the first ?
Yes the coalition tried to artificially reduce government borrowing by replacing government funding to universities with loans to pay tuition fees. Essentially replacing public sector debt born by taxpayers in general with off balance sheet private sector debt born by students. Now it turns out that those loans are not in the large part going to be repaid, so we're back to square one with much of those dodgy loans having to become public sector debt again.
Indeed.
And the real genius of it is that it managed to permanently reduce the likelihood of all future students voting either Conservative or LibDem.
OT. If anyone wants to emigrate from this damp and deteriorating country could I put in a word for Valletta the European City of Culture 2018.
A very pleasant surprise. Small. Beautifully designed. Cosmopolitan with something of the lingering socialist spirit of Dom Mintoff. Cheap transport on boats cars buses and motorised bikes. Free entry to galleries museums. Excellent and relatively inexpensive restaurants. Full employment with a young and lively vibe. The atmosphere reminded me of Arles.
I was told that since they joined the euro in 2008 their ecconomy has gone from strength to strength and the innovative EU financed projects are there for all to see.
A great positive advert for the EU.
Unlike say cities such Lille, Palermo, Dortmund, Glasgow etc
What is wrong with Glasgow, you been there in the last 20 years?
If the government are talking about preparing for no deal then it means they can't have a referendum without no deal as an option now as they have legitimised it.
Perhaps it's an attempt to get remainers on board with the deal.
Comments
I am with Jezz here, if it helps people, let them have it. I get the point on tests but, if that was the case, the Smallpox vaccine would have been a long time coming - hard to imagine Edward Jennings being allowed to pay a boy to be injected with the vaccine and the smallpox virus these days.
😆
(That said, I agree with your substantive point. Given marijuana has been used freely in the west for 100 years its side effects must be pretty well known. And it's hard to see what damage it's likely to do in cases of terminal illness.)
Have a good morning.
That’s great. Let’s give it to all pregnant women!
Cool. What shall we call it?
How about thalidomide?
You don't have large numbers of people with serious conditions all claiming that they have to pop e's on the weekend, or that they have to go out drinking especially when it wasn't something they did before their illness.
Also people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect. Given that some of them would have tried various medicines first they would have had the placebo effect already from a different drug they tried. The medicines we produce from marijuana don't actually create anything new in the marijuana, they take parts from marijuana which work when you use the marijuana as it is. Obviously if you are using saying oils there is a process but that is the same process you would use to create recreational marijuana.
I wish I had 0.1% of his wealth.
Mr. Charles, yes.
Edited extra bit: I'm aware that's the Latin version, but I doubt I'll ever get to use a pun like that again, so...
Right-o......
As they start to black out as their body shuts down preparing to die you shout at them telling them they you are saving them from potential food poisoning.
Do you really think you are helping people with seriously debilitating conditions who have a big improvement of quality of life by using marijuana with your arguments?
What is someone whose life is barely worth living without the use of marijuana potentially losing in your mind?!
I'm not proposing we give it to a 6 year old with a baddie on his knee, people with serious conditions who have very little quality of life.
You can’t say “people get far too much from it to be a placebo effect”. It’s effectively belief that triggers the reaction (it’s also the basis of faith healing)
Additionally you can’t argue that because the pharmacologically active substances are derivatives of marijuana that marijuana works. If you want me to start talking about PK dynamics, area under the curve, and time to Cmax I can but suggest you just take my word for it!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series7/thalidomide.shtml
Any views on this story in Telegraph that A50 can't be extended past July, as otherwise we would need to elect a new round of MEPs?
A referendum could, just about, be held in May?
Considering the range of people and that other medicines they used which should have provided the placebo effect but didn't . Also the range of people who use it have no religious beliefs in it that would cause a placebo effect with especially marijuana but not any of the other medicines they used before. There seems no logical reason why all these people would have a this same reproducible placebo effect with only marijuana but not other things.
When it does that it is generally just known as medicine no more placebo than other medicine.
We can argue that marijuana works though if they are simply attempting to copy the effects. Because marijuana is already an effective drug they aren't using some small part of it and mixing it with other stuff to create something new. The main thing they are trying to do is isolate the already medically effective part without the rest. Or increase strength, decrease stoned effects etc.
Firstly we get the debt from the increased student loans emerge:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46591500
and then we get more revelations about the finances of HS2:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46586603.
Perhaps we should cancel the second to pay for the first ?
If necessary elections can surely be for a short term of office, as has happened when local councils are reorganised, merged or abolished.
Eighteen months ago Vince Cable was claiming they had all disappeared:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGggnF0WAc
You are proposing to ignore it
Not happening anyway.
And the real genius of it is that it managed to permanently reduce the likelihood of all future students voting either Conservative or LibDem.
Perhaps it's an attempt to get remainers on board with the deal.
https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/russian-trolls-election-black-americans-senate-reports.html
Ps. Why was my username (notme) blocked from posting?