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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The reason the Corbyn “stupid row” continues to make news is b

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Anazina said:

    16:49: Gatwick closed until at least 9pm
    17:00: Gatwick closed until at least 10pm

    Just extraordinary,

    1709hrs: Gatwick closed until 11pm???

    matt said:

    Glad I flew out of Southend this morning.

    I’d be glad to fly out of Southend too. Drive or walk as well.
    nsted.
    Don't let them in on the secret.
    Bad Guy Stansted airport
    Calls itself "London" Stansted
    Is actually nearly in Norfolk
    "Nearly in Norfolk ...?'

    LOL. Your knowledge of geography is as poor as your knowledge of the EU !
    I was exaggerating for comic effect. I grew up in Essex.
    Ah, that explains a lot.

    You've done well to learn to type. Have you progressed past the randomly-bashing-at-the-keys stage ;)

    matt said:

    Glad I flew out of Southend this morning.

    I’d be glad to fly out of Southend too. Drive or walk as well.
    Southend Airport is a very pleasant place, for an airport. Considerably, by a considerable stretch, better than Stansted.
    Don't let them in on the secret.
    Bad Guy Stansted airport
    Calls itself "London" Stansted
    Is actually nearly in Norfolk
    "Nearly in Norfolk ...?'

    LOL. Your knowledge of geography is as poor as your knowledge of the EU !
    Iin Essex.
    Ah, that explains a lot.

    You've done well to learn to type. Have you progressed past the randomly-bashing-at-the-keys stage ;)
    It's attitudes like that that encourage Brexit. Even as if, as I assume intended, 'humorous'!

    My eldest granddaughter, when at Uni in the N of England, always described herself as a 'girl from Essex', NOT as Essex Girl.
    Incidentally, she now works in Yorkshire.
    Nowt wrong with Essex. It's a beautiful county, in parts. Dedham Vale is stunning, Epping Forest 12 miles of blissful solitude on the edge of London, and has the longest coastline of any county in England (and the most islands).
    Longer than Cornwall? Surprising if true; that sounds like a quiz question
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    Indeed it is. Personal relationships are very important. If May had spent more time cultivating backbench MPs of all parties she might well be close to getting her deal through. But her high handed remoteness and personal diffidence antagonises people and makes them less likely to be supportive. Her attempts to get Labour MPs on board consisted solely of briefing the media about how at least 30 Labour MPs favoured a deal. If she had actually spoken privately to any MPs she would have realised that this was wishful thinking.

    As it happens I think that her deal is ok and IS going to get ratified with some help from Labour, but I agree with you about the woman herself. Very one dimensional she is, and an arch purveyor of sterile soundbites. One I particularly hated was 'no deal is better than a bad deal'. That really upset me. Because it is literally meaningless. It must first be corrected to 'no deal is better than a bad deal that is so bad that it is worse than no deal'. Then eliminating the subjective word 'bad' which appears on both sides that becomes 'no deal is better than a deal that is worse than no deal'. Final evolution to 'a deal is better than no deal if it is better than no deal'. This is the tone that she has set for the Brexit debate. Is it any wonder we are where we are.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    notme2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    This was four years ago. There should have had a contingency plan for the Gatwick situation.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30369701

    Not sure what contingency plans you can have. Planes and drones simply don't mix and there is a big enough exclusion zone around airports than no one can do it 'by accident'.

    The Government is introducing tougher rules for drones and anyone who wants to fly one for commercial reasons already needs a CAA licence. But if someone actually wants to cause disruption or worse an accident there is not that much more the airport can do proactively to prevent it. All their actions are likely to be reactive.
    The contingency plans will be around how to manage disruption.
    This was last week in Mexico
    https://metro.co.uk/2018/12/14/passenger-plane-left-gaping-hole-crashing-drone-8249661/

    It resembles the damage caused by a large bird
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4543186/bird-strike-boeing-737-sudan/

    We don't close airports because of flocks of geese. Just carry on flying.
    But a drone could be used maliciously. I don't think we have developed the technology to pilot geese.
    WE could train geese to knock out drones.
    The Dutch are already using Eagles to take out drones.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKNN49idCUo
    It better not do that with one with metal blades, it will be the eagle falling to the ground, not the drone.
    The Dutch have actually given up on the idea

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/12/16767000/police-netherlands-eagles-rogue-drones

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    rpjs said:

    So, no-dealers of PB, how sanguine do you feel about the UK's ability to cope with a crash-out Brexit now?

    Doubt it can be much worse than periods of the 70's such as the 3 day week or winter of discontent. Of course you have to be of a certain vintage to remember the 70's.
    Brexit: Not much worse than the three-day week
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    He was only muttering what most people were thinking as she launched into that cruel and bullying pantomime routine. She was mocking him. Mocking him in front of his own MPs and inviting her own MPs to laugh along. Hardly surprising that Jeremy felt the need to retaliate. I bet what he really wanted to do was get up and slap her round the chops. Yet he did not do that. No violence whatsoever. Mark of the man.

    Still, to be serious, has he not stood up and lied to the House of Commons? Yes, he undeniably has. Therefore could this not, trivial as it seems to many, lead to a scandal which grows and grows until the only way to end it is for him to stand down as Labour leader? Unlikely. Very unlikely indeed. But not impossible.

    If so, what a time for that to happen, right slap bang in the middle of the biggest political crisis that this country has seen for many a year!

    A new Labour leader, or even Tom Watson as interim leader would be a very interesting development.

    Though I think the real significance of the row is to make some sort of negotiated Labour support for the Deal even less likely. An olive branch would have been better from TM, but she is too partisan.
    The word of Brexit was revealed to Theresa May and to Theresa May alone. And she has a direct line to the views of the vast mority of the "British People'!

    She just isn't interested in what anyone else, who hasn't had the benefit of that revelation, hs to say.
    I believe TM knew the two extremes of no deal and no brexit were not possible so she set herself on a course that delivers a business friendly brexit which is leaving but also is not remain

    It is a brave course and she may not succeed but she will always go down as the British PM who obtained a legal brexit treaty with the EU
    I don't think there is any treaty involved at this stage - at least not until ratified by Parliament.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    Has the Labour MP in the speedingticketgate case been sentenced yet?
    Does anyone know what the parameters are?

    No. I asked this am, and someone posted it was not until the New Year.
    As was said to me when I was a witness once 'At least they'll have Christmas with their families.'
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Has the Labour MP in the speedingticketgate case been sentenced yet?
    Does anyone know what the parameters are?

    Believe sentencing is in January
    Based on conversations with others, my understanding is she loses her seat of sentenced to a year or more in prison (although she'll presumably come under enormous pressure, and possibly be subject to a recall petition, in any event if she doesn't shift voluntarily.)

    If and when she goes, I take it that Corbyn gets to set the date for the by-election?

    Perhaps he'll show us he has a sense of humour and go for March 29th?
  • Maybe they should offer Theresa May confidence and supply!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    stodge said:

    I believe TM knew the two extremes of no deal and no brexit were not possible so she set herself on a course that delivers a business friendly brexit which is leaving but also is not remain

    It is a brave course and she may not succeed but she will always go down as the British PM who obtained a legal brexit treaty with the EU

    It may or may not be "business friendly" - some bits of business like it (because they are terrified of No Deal) and other parts of business are less enthusiastic. Don't assume the CBI is either a) united or b) speaks for all business.

    To be picky, it won't be a legal treaty unless we approve it. If the Commons fails to back her next month, she could go down in history as another Conservative PM wrecked on the rocks of Europe.
    Maybe but she has an EU approved treaty and is likely to be unique in history if we fail to leave
    It's not EU approved yet. It's been approved by the EUCO, but it has not yet been approved by the European Parliament, the Parliament of the UK or the Parliaments of the EU27.
    It doesn't have to be approved by the parliaments of the EU27. At least not all of them.
    I don't think that's true. Ruling from the Chair?
    From Article 50: "That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3)[10] of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."

    So I guess that means that as a treaty, the WDA will be a bilateral agreement between the UK and the EU itself, not a multilateral treaty between the UK and all of the EU27.

    Brexiteers note: the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties does not apply to agreements between sovereign states and international organizations.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:
    He doesn't mince his words, especially in the two bottom paragraphs on the first page.
    I thought that the preceding paragraph was pretty damning as well.
    He whinges about the lack of a child poverty strategy, and his pride under Blair and Brown. I would like to point out on every single measure of child poverty, every one, it is lower now than at any point during the labour government.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Donny43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Donny43 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And we should always make decisions based on sharp increases on polling for one side as that will never change as PM of a huge majority T May could tell us.
    We may end up with every single person unhappy with the final result at this rate.
    I am OK with that, it makes Rejoin far more likely if the Brexit outcome is forced on a public that has changed its mind.

    Brexiteers who want it to stick should support a #peoplesvote.
    I do support the People's Vote. It was close but decisive.
    Your close but decisive support for the people's vote is welcome! When the vote comes let's hope it is decisive and not close.
    I'll give you a time machine to go back to a point where the People's Vote was still in the future.
    That time machine doesn't appear to be working. Today is still today.
  • Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    He was only muttering what most people were thinking as she launched into that cruel and bullying pantomime routine. She was mocking him. Mocking him in front of his own MPs and inviting her own MPs to laugh along. Hardly surprising that Jeremy felt the need to retaliate. I bet what he really wanted to do was get up and slap her round the chops. Yet he did not do that. No violence whatsoever. Mark of the man.

    Still, to be serious, has he not stood up and lied to the House of Commons? Yes, he undeniably has. Therefore could this not, trivial as it seems to many, lead to a scandal which grows and grows until the only way to end it is for him to stand down as Labour leader? Unlikely. Very unlikely indeed. But not impossible.

    If so, what a time for that to happen, right slap bang in the middle of the biggest political crisis that this country has seen for many a year!

    A new Labour leader, or even Tom Watson as interim leader would be a very interesting development.

    Though I think the real significance of the row is to make some sort of negotiated Labour support for the Deal even less likely. An olive branch would have been better from TM, but she is too partisan.
    The word of Brexit was revealed to Theresa May and to Theresa May alone. And she has a direct line to the views of the vast mority of the "British People'!

    She just isn't interested in what anyone else, who hasn't had the benefit of that revelation, hs to say.
    I believe TM knew the two extremes of no deal and no brexit were not possible so she set herself on a course that delivers a business friendly brexit which is leaving but also is not remain

    It is a brave course and she may not succeed but she will always go down as the British PM who obtained a legal brexit treaty with the EU
    Sorry, Mr G; as you know I have a high opinion of you, so, in the words of Oliver Cromwell, I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.
    Not sure what I have expressed wrongly to be honest, especially to involve Oliver Cromwell and the Good Lord
    The post to which I replied. That Mrs May knows what she is doing, and it is her 'best'!
    Well I see now and I do think she knows what she is doing and is getting away with it so far. I do not understand where her 'best' is quoted
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    RoyalBlue said:

    Dismal on the part of the police and the armed forces.

    Then again, why are we surprised? It took several nights of criminal rampage in 2011 before the police realised that perhaps it would be best to try to stop the rioters.

    Thanks to New Labour, the leadership of the police is now the same ineffectual caste that infests the civil service. Now that we have Crapita organising recruitment for the armed forces, I’m sure they’ll be next.

    I'm trying to remember which Government has overseen a fall in Police numbers and the closure of operational stations and which Home Secretary wanted Police off the beat and moving round in vans. As for 2011, my recollection was most areas suffered one night of trouble but it spread round the country over three or four days until a large deployment of Police quietened things down.

    Putting aside the party political posturing, I heard a pilot on Sky saying airports in other countries had some way of detecting and dealing with drones and we didn't because we wouldn't pay to get the technology in place.

    Typical penny pinching half arsed Britain - I suspect the EU are privately glad to be rid of our rebate-obsessed mean-spirited opt-out riddled half hearted membership.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Scott_P said:
    Quick question: should that be "neither...nor" or "either...or"? It's bugging me.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    So, no-dealers of PB, how sanguine do you feel about the UK's ability to cope with a crash-out Brexit now?

    Doubt it can be much worse than periods of the 70's such as the 3 day week or winter of discontent. Of course you have to be of a certain vintage to remember the 70's.
    I am. So better stock up on candles then.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    IanB2 said:

    Donny43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Donny43 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And we should always make decisions based on sharp increases on polling for one side as that will never change as PM of a huge majority T May could tell us.
    We may end up with every single person unhappy with the final result at this rate.
    I am OK with that, it makes Rejoin far more likely if the Brexit outcome is forced on a public that has changed its mind.

    Brexiteers who want it to stick should support a #peoplesvote.
    I do support the People's Vote. It was close but decisive.
    Your close but decisive support for the people's vote is welcome! When the vote comes let's hope it is decisive and not close.
    I'll give you a time machine to go back to a point where the People's Vote was still in the future.
    That time machine doesn't appear to be working. Today is still today.
    So the People's Vote is still more than two and a half years in the past.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    viewcode said:

    Quick question: should that be "neither...nor" or "either...or"? It's bugging me.

    either...or as he already has a not in front of it
  • stodge said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Dismal on the part of the police and the armed forces.

    Then again, why are we surprised? It took several nights of criminal rampage in 2011 before the police realised that perhaps it would be best to try to stop the rioters.

    Thanks to New Labour, the leadership of the police is now the same ineffectual caste that infests the civil service. Now that we have Crapita organising recruitment for the armed forces, I’m sure they’ll be next.

    I'm trying to remember which Government has overseen a fall in Police numbers and the closure of operational stations and which Home Secretary wanted Police off the beat and moving round in vans. As for 2011, my recollection was most areas suffered one night of trouble but it spread round the country over three or four days until a large deployment of Police quietened things down.

    Putting aside the party political posturing, I heard a pilot on Sky saying airports in other countries had some way of detecting and dealing with drones and we didn't because we wouldn't pay to get the technology in place.

    Typical penny pinching half arsed Britain - I suspect the EU are privately glad to be rid of our rebate-obsessed mean-spirited opt-out riddled half hearted membership.
    EU airports are better prepared, are they? Or are you just working backwards from your conclusion?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    IanB2 said:

    Anazina said:

    ,

    1709hrs: Gatwick closed until 11pm???

    matt said:

    Glad I flew out of Southend this morning.

    nsted.
    Don't let them in on the secret.

    Is actually nearly in Norfolk
    !
    I was exaggerating for comic effect. I grew up in Essex.

    You've done well to learn to type. Have you progressed past the randomly-bashing-at-the-keys stage ;)

    matt said:

    Glad I flew out of Southend this morning.

    I’d be glad to fly out of Southend too. Drive or walk as well.
    Southend Airport is a very pleasant place, for an airport. Considerably, by a considerable stretch, better than Stansted.
    Don't let them in on the secret.
    Is actually nearly in Norfolk
    "Nearly in Norfolk ...?'

    !
    Iin Essex.
    Ah, that explains a lot.

    You've done well to learn to type. Have you progressed past the randomly-bashing-at-the-keys stage ;)
    It's attitudes like that that encourage Brexit. Even as if, as I assume intended, 'humorous'!

    My eldest granddaughter, when at Uni in the N of England, always described herself as a 'girl from Essex', NOT as Essex Girl.
    Incidentally, she now works in Yorkshire.
    Nowt wrong with Essex. It's a beautiful county, in parts. Dedham Vale is stunning, Epping Forest 12 miles of blissful solitude on the edge of London, and has the longest coastline of any county in England (and the most islands).
    Longer than Cornwall? Surprising if true; that sounds like a quiz question
    While I yield to no-one in appreciation of my native, albeit not my ancestral, county, the Ordnance Survey says,
    'We used our Boundary-Line product, an open dataset, which is at 1:10,000 scale and is the scale also used by the Boundary Commission. Comparing the length of English county coastlines using Boundary-Line high-water data, Essex didn’t top the table. Cornwall has the longest coastline (even without including the Isles of Scilly).'
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    Quick question: should that be "neither...nor" or "either...or"? It's bugging me.
    I believe that sentence to be structured correctly. If he'd wanted to use neither/nor then he'd have had to begin with something like "The reason I believe that neither no deal nor May's deal are now possible..."
  • Scott_P said:
    What Dura said earlier, just with longer words :-)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Apparently Ivan Lewis had been advised that he was shortly to be given a date for the disciplinary hearing. By resigning in this way he has prevented that taking place. Of course, not the least bit suspicious.!
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    edited December 2018

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    Quick question: should that be "neither...nor" or "either...or"? It's bugging me.
    I believe that sentence to be structured correctly. If he'd wanted to use neither/nor then he'd have had to begin with something like "The reason I believe that neither no deal nor May's deal are now possible..."
    It should in any case be "is now possible".
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    justin124 said:

    Apparently Ivan Lewis had been advised that he was shortly to be given a date for the disciplinary hearing. By resigning in this way he has prevented that taking place. Of course, not the least bit suspicious.!

    After a year? Hmm, let's play the "what is more likely" game:

    Is it more likely that after sitting on the process for a year Labour decided to fix a date; or
    Is it more likely that the person briefing the date had been fixed is making it up to discredit Lewis?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Donny43 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apparently Ivan Lewis had been advised that he was shortly to be given a date for the disciplinary hearing. By resigning in this way he has prevented that taking place. Of course, not the least bit suspicious.!

    After a year? Hmm, let's play the "what is more likely" game:

    Is it more likely that after sitting on the process for a year Labour decided to fix a date; or
    Is it more likely that the person briefing the date had been fixed is making it up to discredit Lewis?
    Not according to Sky News.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Donny43 said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    Quick question: should that be "neither...nor" or "either...or"? It's bugging me.
    I believe that sentence to be structured correctly. If he'd wanted to use neither/nor then he'd have had to begin with something like "The reason I believe that neither no deal nor May's deal are now possible..."
    It should in any case be "is now possible".
    The correct grammatical formulation is "believe...neither..."
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    justin124 said:

    Donny43 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apparently Ivan Lewis had been advised that he was shortly to be given a date for the disciplinary hearing. By resigning in this way he has prevented that taking place. Of course, not the least bit suspicious.!

    After a year? Hmm, let's play the "what is more likely" game:

    Is it more likely that after sitting on the process for a year Labour decided to fix a date; or
    Is it more likely that the person briefing the date had been fixed is making it up to discredit Lewis?
    Not according to Sky News.
    By whom were Sky News briefed?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Donny43 said:

    justin124 said:

    Donny43 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apparently Ivan Lewis had been advised that he was shortly to be given a date for the disciplinary hearing. By resigning in this way he has prevented that taking place. Of course, not the least bit suspicious.!

    After a year? Hmm, let's play the "what is more likely" game:

    Is it more likely that after sitting on the process for a year Labour decided to fix a date; or
    Is it more likely that the person briefing the date had been fixed is making it up to discredit Lewis?
    Not according to Sky News.
    By whom were Sky News briefed?
    Perhaps you should ask them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    I would need to be decisive to put it to bed, like the second Irish one. And a promise to never hold a sodding one ever again on anything. Put it in a manifesto and to a general election.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Pleased I flew into Birmingham this morning! The number of people affected is now going to be in the hundreds of thousands, lots of people are going to have to cancel Christmas plans thanks to a group of idiots.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
    I think we've established that Leave would need to win 80:20 but Remain only by 50.1:49.9.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520


    I thought that desciption applied to Yorkshire!

    If I can explain my concern, it's that Brexit was voted for by people who were disenchanted by what they saw as the attitudes of a 'metropolitan elite'

    And, for the avoidance of doubt I voted FOR British involvement in the EU as I did in 1975. And this time, as again I did in '75 I'll do my best to encourage my neighbours to do the same thing. I didn't do enough, I fear and regret, in 2016.

    Edited for date. I'm sure we'll have sorted this within 100 years!

    "I thought that description applied to Yorkshire!"

    It's a self-deprecating alteration of a classic Derbyshire term:
    http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/dialect1.htm

    Yorkshire use something like it as well, but that's just a result of their thieving, whinging and penny-pinching ways, ;)

    I've never been called the 'Metropolitan Elite' before. Since I'm rarely happier than when I'm in a tent on a godforsaken hillside, that's probably a weird definition of 'Metropolitan'!

    I wonder what the intersection is between the people who pick up their handbags at such terms being used and using them as an excuse for Brexit, and those who say all Muslims should be deported and then cry about free speech when called up about it? ;)

    (As an aside, years back someone went online to publicise a book called 'Ey up mi duck' about Derbyshire dialects - I have a copy somewhere. He got rather annoyed by people making jokes, until someone pointed out he had replaced the 'u' in the last word with an 'i' ...)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
    In contrast to 2016, I think a second campaign could see a late swing towards the side that's ahead, as people subconsciously aim to get a decisive result so that we don't revisit the question.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520

    While I yield to no-one in appreciation of my native, albeit not my ancestral, county, the Ordnance Survey says,
    'We used our Boundary-Line product, an open dataset, which is at 1:10,000 scale and is the scale also used by the Boundary Commission. Comparing the length of English county coastlines using Boundary-Line high-water data, Essex didn’t top the table. Cornwall has the longest coastline (even without including the Isles of Scilly).'

    Having walked around both, I can honestly say that Essex's coastline may be long, but it is a real ballache to walk around. It's also fairly rubbish - except for a few glorious bits, such as St Peter's Church - http://www.bradwellchapel.org/

    The main problem with Cornwall is that it's set up for tourism. Everything is about tourists. Which is fair enough, but gets a bit samey when you;re going through the fifteenth tourist-based village.

    Give me the Pembrokeshire coast any day. even Milford Haven is fascinating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Jolyon Maugham 'The people can prevent a No Deal Brexit with a General Strike'

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/19/people-prevent-no-deal-brexit-general-strike-eu?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,429
    By-election watch.

    Following the retirement of Lord Northbourne there was a by-election on 28 November for a crossbencher peer elected by the 31 crossbencher peers. Lord Carrington was elected.

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Result-by-election-28-11-18.pdf

    In January there will be another by-election due to the death of Lord Skelmersdale. This time all members of the House of Lords are eligible to vote.

    The list of candidates and their short CVs were published earlier this week.

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Arrangements-by-election-17-12-18.pdf

    Would Lord Oranmore and Browne solve the Irish border question given his pedigree?
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    HYUFD said:
    The least likely thing a conservative government would listen to.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
    Yougov had Remain ahead pre EU referendum and recently had Remain 50% May's Deal 50% and Remain 52% No Deal 48% head to head
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    viewcode said:

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
    😆
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520
    stodge said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Dismal on the part of the police and the armed forces.

    Then again, why are we surprised? It took several nights of criminal rampage in 2011 before the police realised that perhaps it would be best to try to stop the rioters.

    Thanks to New Labour, the leadership of the police is now the same ineffectual caste that infests the civil service. Now that we have Crapita organising recruitment for the armed forces, I’m sure they’ll be next.

    I'm trying to remember which Government has overseen a fall in Police numbers and the closure of operational stations and which Home Secretary wanted Police off the beat and moving round in vans. As for 2011, my recollection was most areas suffered one night of trouble but it spread round the country over three or four days until a large deployment of Police quietened things down.

    Putting aside the party political posturing, I heard a pilot on Sky saying airports in other countries had some way of detecting and dealing with drones and we didn't because we wouldn't pay to get the technology in place.

    Typical penny pinching half arsed Britain - I suspect the EU are privately glad to be rid of our rebate-obsessed mean-spirited opt-out riddled half hearted membership.
    What do you expect more police to be doing? Holding broomhandles in the air to get the drones down, Simpsons' style ?

    "Putting aside the party political posturing, I heard a pilot on Sky saying airports in other countries had some way of detecting and dealing with drones and we didn't because we wouldn't pay to get the technology in place."

    More likely that the technology doesn't work reliably, or has unforeseen consequences: e.g. blocking radio signals might interfere with other items, and not work at all on drones that had a GPS-based route set up. Unless you want to jam GPS signals as well. That'll have no problems with SatNavs ...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233

    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    Lasers? Guided missiles? Kamikase drones? Somebody flying alongside with a chopper and a rifle? There are lots of things you can do. It's not even close to impossible.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    While I yield to no-one in appreciation of my native, albeit not my ancestral, county, the Ordnance Survey says,
    'We used our Boundary-Line product, an open dataset, which is at 1:10,000 scale and is the scale also used by the Boundary Commission. Comparing the length of English county coastlines using Boundary-Line high-water data, Essex didn’t top the table. Cornwall has the longest coastline (even without including the Isles of Scilly).'

    Having walked around both, I can honestly say that Essex's coastline may be long, but it is a real ballache to walk around. It's also fairly rubbish - except for a few glorious bits, such as St Peter's Church - http://www.bradwellchapel.org/

    The main problem with Cornwall is that it's set up for tourism. Everything is about tourists. Which is fair enough, but gets a bit samey when you;re going through the fifteenth tourist-based village.

    Give me the Pembrokeshire coast any day. even Milford Haven is fascinating.
    It’s all about Northumberland’s wild, undisturbed coastline. An area of outstanding natural beauty I’ll have you know.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
    Essentially nothing? I’m glad you’re not involved in the teams trying to stop these drones.

    I’m sure the Israelis could cook up something to take care of this on a Thursday afternoon. They probably already have. Perhaps we should ask for help?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    viewcode said:

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
    Post of the year
  • AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
  • stodge said:

    I believe TM knew the two extremes of no deal and no brexit were not possible so she set herself on a course that delivers a business friendly brexit which is leaving but also is not remain

    It is a brave course and she may not succeed but she will always go down as the British PM who obtained a legal brexit treaty with the EU

    It may or may not be "business friendly" - some bits of business like it (because they are terrified of No Deal) and other parts of business are less enthusiastic. Don't assume the CBI is either a) united or b) speaks for all business.

    To be picky, it won't be a legal treaty unless we approve it. If the Commons fails to back her next month, she could go down in history as another Conservative PM wrecked on the rocks of Europe.
    Maybe but she has an EU approved treaty and is likely to be unique in history if we fail to leave
    It's not EU approved yet. It's been approved by the EUCO, but it has not yet been approved by the European Parliament, the Parliament of the UK or the Parliaments of the EU27.
    It doesn't have to be approved by the parliaments of the EU27. At least not all of them.
    I don't think that's true. Ruling from the Chair?
    The withdrawal agreement under Article 50 is decided by QMV. The subsequent trade agreement however has to be agreed by all 27 member states.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Lol
    viewcode said:

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
    LOL :D
  • viewcode said:

    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    Lasers? Guided missiles? Kamikase drones? Somebody flying alongside with a chopper and a rifle? There are lots of things you can do. It's not even close to impossible.

    bloke in a chopper in a rifle option did *not* work in The Thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718


    I thought that desciption applied to Yorkshire!

    If I can explain my concern, it's that Brexit was voted for by people who were disenchanted by what they saw as the attitudes of a 'metropolitan elite'

    And, for the avoidance of doubt I voted FOR British involvement in the EU as I did in 1975. And this time, as again I did in '75 I'll do my best to encourage my neighbours to do the same thing. I didn't do enough, I fear and regret, in 2016.

    Edited for date. I'm sure we'll have sorted this within 100 years!

    "I thought that description applied to Yorkshire!"

    It's a self-deprecating alteration of a classic Derbyshire term:
    http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/dialect1.htm

    Yorkshire use something like it as well, but that's just a result of their thieving, whinging and penny-pinching ways, ;)

    I've never been called the 'Metropolitan Elite' before. Since I'm rarely happier than when I'm in a tent on a godforsaken hillside, that's probably a weird definition of 'Metropolitan'!

    I wonder what the intersection is between the people who pick up their handbags at such terms being used and using them as an excuse for Brexit, and those who say all Muslims should be deported and then cry about free speech when called up about it? ;)

    (As an aside, years back someone went online to publicise a book called 'Ey up mi duck' about Derbyshire dialects - I have a copy somewhere. He got rather annoyed by people making jokes, until someone pointed out he had replaced the 'u' in the last word with an 'i' ...)
    Touché!.
    I recently wrote a short story for the Creative Writing group to which I belong which included some Norfolk dialect..... a character used the word 'bor' when addressing a friend, ...... and was told by another member that not only had she never heard the word but she wouldn't mix with people who used language like that.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    viewcode said:

    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    Lasers? Guided missiles? Kamikase drones? Somebody flying alongside with a chopper and a rifle? There are lots of things you can do. It's not even close to impossible.

    Someone said on R4 that recommendations were made in 2016. The govt may have been distracted I think. If the army's drones are bigger than the drone(s) they want to catch, they could try this

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5357575/Drone-catching-drones-armed-nets-hit-Winter-Olympics.html
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
    A number of technical solutions have recently been proposed, including targeting the things with lasers and using signal jamming to cut them off from whoever's controlling them. Regardless, even if we've been doing little or no work on the problem in this country I'm sure the Americans at least have been applying themselves to it. It can't be beyond the wit of man to prevent a twat with a few hundred grams of remote-controlled flying plastic from shutting down an international airport for an entire day.

    In the longer term the authorities need to give more thought to what to do about the threat posed by drones. The things are a menace. People have already strapped guns to drones and fired them mid-air. It's only a matter of time before one is used to deliver an explosive device.
  • AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I think it is going to turn out to be Airport Protestors.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    viewcode said:

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
    We need to vote down the drone and negotiate a SuperCopter +++.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
    Essentially nothing? I’m glad you’re not involved in the teams trying to stop these drones.

    I’m sure the Israelis could cook up something to take care of this on a Thursday afternoon. They probably already have. Perhaps we should ask for help?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Beam

    (I googled)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233

    viewcode said:

    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    Lasers? Guided missiles? Kamikase drones? Somebody flying alongside with a chopper and a rifle? There are lots of things you can do. It's not even close to impossible.

    bloke in a chopper in a rifle option did *not* work in The Thing.
    :)
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    viewcode said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
    Essentially nothing? I’m glad you’re not involved in the teams trying to stop these drones.

    I’m sure the Israelis could cook up something to take care of this on a Thursday afternoon. They probably already have. Perhaps we should ask for help?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Beam

    (I googled)
    Thanks!

    God bless the State of Israel. Now, if only they’d finish it...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    While I yield to no-one in appreciation of my native, albeit not my ancestral, county, the Ordnance Survey says,
    'We used our Boundary-Line product, an open dataset, which is at 1:10,000 scale and is the scale also used by the Boundary Commission. Comparing the length of English county coastlines using Boundary-Line high-water data, Essex didn’t top the table. Cornwall has the longest coastline (even without including the Isles of Scilly).'

    Having walked around both, I can honestly say that Essex's coastline may be long, but it is a real ballache to walk around. It's also fairly rubbish - except for a few glorious bits, such as St Peter's Church - http://www.bradwellchapel.org/

    The main problem with Cornwall is that it's set up for tourism. Everything is about tourists. Which is fair enough, but gets a bit samey when you;re going through the fifteenth tourist-based village.

    Give me the Pembrokeshire coast any day. even Milford Haven is fascinating.
    Agree at the area around St Peters. Otherwise the Essex coast North and North-East of Maldon is a bird-watchers heaven in winter. That's until one gets past Mersea Island. South of St Peters is pretty good too.
  • AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
  • By-election watch.

    Following the retirement of Lord Northbourne there was a by-election on 28 November for a crossbencher peer elected by the 31 crossbencher peers. Lord Carrington was elected.

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Result-by-election-28-11-18.pdf

    In January there will be another by-election due to the death of Lord Skelmersdale. This time all members of the House of Lords are eligible to vote.

    The list of candidates and their short CVs were published earlier this week.

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Arrangements-by-election-17-12-18.pdf

    Would Lord Oranmore and Browne solve the Irish border question given his pedigree?

    Hopefully Rupert Carington will show the same sense and standards as his illustrious father.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited December 2018
    Are we sure Gatwick isn't actually being plagued by a herd of winged golden unicorns arriving in good time to secure their residency in UK PLC
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    If he's that close, it would at least mean we could arrest him over Salisbury and give him five years for conspiracy...
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    If the stuffed suits who run the forces and the police can’t stop a few drones, I don’t think a war with Russia would end well.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520

    While I yield to no-one in appreciation of my native, albeit not my ancestral, county, the Ordnance Survey says,
    'We used our Boundary-Line product, an open dataset, which is at 1:10,000 scale and is the scale also used by the Boundary Commission. Comparing the length of English county coastlines using Boundary-Line high-water data, Essex didn’t top the table. Cornwall has the longest coastline (even without including the Isles of Scilly).'

    Having walked around both, I can honestly say that Essex's coastline may be long, but it is a real ballache to walk around. It's also fairly rubbish - except for a few glorious bits, such as St Peter's Church - http://www.bradwellchapel.org/

    The main problem with Cornwall is that it's set up for tourism. Everything is about tourists. Which is fair enough, but gets a bit samey when you;re going through the fifteenth tourist-based village.

    Give me the Pembrokeshire coast any day. even Milford Haven is fascinating.
    It’s all about Northumberland’s wild, undisturbed coastline. An area of outstanding natural beauty I’ll have you know.
    I will happily second that. Northumberland's coasst is superb.

    I did meet a rather odd man on the beach below Bamburgh Castle who, when I said I was walking around the coast, kept on insisting I was walking the 'wrong way'. And I wasn't even walking widdershins ...
  • I think the front page of the Mail had it about right. All Corbyn is doing now is reinforcing the fact that the electorate would be stupid to believe a word he says let alone trust him or his party. He has dug himself I’m so deep that apologising now would just confirm what most of us think. Still, we can’t expect anything different from the leader of a party in which misogyny is rife.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    viewcode said:

    This is ridiculous. What the hell are the authorities doing?

    I believe the "managed no-drone" scenario (aka the "WTO no-drone" scenario) is to point out that we coped with no Gatwick during WW2 and that the drones will suffer worse
    We need to vote down the drone and negotiate a SuperCopter +++.
    This is not so much managed no-drone as unmanaged no-plane :disappointed:

    I feel very sorry for those whose Christmases have been ruined.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    So - tis the season to be jolly part 1....

    I was in a supermarket with my wife lunchtime to pick up a few ((£196!!!!!!) things.

    Very busy, not easy to navigate a way through each aisle.

    As we pass down one I nudge someones trolley as I pass it - not deliberately.

    A slight nudge no more.

    I apologise straight away with a smile.

    The person turns round and the next words out of his mouth are..........

    "touch my trolley again and I will break your fecking jaw"

    I look at this "gentleman" - he must be in his 70's if he is a day.........

    Merry xmas one and all!!!!

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    That would be an act of war surely?

    So are using radiological or chemical weapons against civilian targets.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
    Yougov had Remain ahead pre EU referendum and recently had Remain 50% May's Deal 50% and Remain 52% No Deal 48% head to head
    Which is unbelievably good for Leave given the fact that the news flow since the referendum has been totally negative and the scaremongering verging on paranoia.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    RoyalBlue said:

    viewcode said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Or it could just be that the Government is floundering? It wouldn't exactly be the first time.

    Regardless, serious questions will be asked if an incident like this is allowed to occur again.
    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    This feels like what could be the first of many disruptions of this sort. It causes massive inconvenience and it is easy to do.
    Essentially nothing? I’m glad you’re not involved in the teams trying to stop these drones.

    I’m sure the Israelis could cook up something to take care of this on a Thursday afternoon. They probably already have. Perhaps we should ask for help?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Beam

    (I googled)
    Thanks!

    God bless the State of Israel. Now, if only they’d finish it...
    Well, this one is up and running...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System
  • Floater said:

    So - tis the season to be jolly part 1....

    I was in a supermarket with my wife lunchtime to pick up a few ((£196!!!!!!) things.

    Very busy, not easy to navigate a way through each aisle.

    As we pass down one I nudge someones trolley as I pass it - not deliberately.

    A slight nudge no more.

    I apologise straight away with a smile.

    The person turns round and the next words out of his mouth are..........

    "touch my trolley again and I will break your fecking jaw"

    I look at this "gentleman" - he must be in his 70's if he is a day.........

    Merry xmas one and all!!!!

    Sounds like the usual pre-xmas food madness.

    I saw two women literally fighting over the last joint of beef at our local supermarket last year.

    The shop assistant who sorted out told me afterwards it was all bloody silly, as new stocks were about to be put on the shelf.

    Still, all good practice for April 2019.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:
    Such a man of the people.......
  • AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520
    RoyalBlue said:

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    If the stuffed suits who run the forces and the police can’t stop a few drones, I don’t think a war with Russia would end well.
    The rules they would operate under during a war with Russia would be very different to the rules they operate under now, in peacetime.

    One of the glorious, and little discussed, things about Britain are the rights and freedoms we have up during World War II, and the way most (all?) seamlessly returned after the war.

    (There were exceptions, a book I read mentioned a law that was passed restricting freedoms, that was soon withdrawn as there was widespread condemnation of it. Annoyingly I cannot remember what it was - perhaps something to do with people of Germanic ancestry.)
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Erm, maybe we should try to destroy them rather than just hope they go away? Lord help us.

    @Dura_Ace - what’s the smallest target an ASRAAM could hit?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
    I would strongly advise you not to let anyone from Salisbury hear you calling it 'a small town.'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If we suspend our scepticism about the accuracy of opinion polls for a moment, and imagine that a "People's Vote" might end up with a result somewhere in the ballpark of Yes to leaving the Union 45%, No to leaving the Union 55%, then how far do we think that would get us in the long run?

    The last 45:55 split in one of these rotten referendums didn't exactly make the issue go away.
    60:40 is needed to settle the matter. Latest YouGov suggests we are more or less there already.
    Yougov had Remain ahead pre EU referendum and recently had Remain 50% May's Deal 50% and Remain 52% No Deal 48% head to head
    Which is unbelievably good for Leave given the fact that the news flow since the referendum has been totally negative and the scaremongering verging on paranoia.
    Yes there are no guarantees Remain would win any EUref2
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    viewcode said:

    How do you propose to stop it? There is essentially nothing you can do to prevent a drone being flown into an airport if someone wants to do it.

    Lasers? Guided missiles? Kamikase drones? Somebody flying alongside with a chopper and a rifle? There are lots of things you can do. It's not even close to impossible.

    All of your solutions only work once a breach of airspace has taken place. Airport perimeters are vast. We can't have permanent helicopter patrols covering all of them.

    There are solutions that can take them down once they are over the prohibited air space - but no solution that I can imagine that would stop the incursion from taking place in the first place.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Floater said:

    So - tis the season to be jolly part 1....

    I was in a supermarket with my wife lunchtime to pick up a few ((£196!!!!!!) things.

    Very busy, not easy to navigate a way through each aisle.

    As we pass down one I nudge someones trolley as I pass it - not deliberately.

    A slight nudge no more.

    I apologise straight away with a smile.

    The person turns round and the next words out of his mouth are..........

    "touch my trolley again and I will break your fecking jaw"

    I look at this "gentleman" - he must be in his 70's if he is a day.........

    Merry xmas one and all!!!!

    This Christmas feels more anxious, angry and frantic than last year. Then again, I’ve been away for months so maybe I’m still not acclimatised to life in the Big Smoke.
  • ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
    I would strongly advise you not to let anyone from Salisbury hear you calling it 'a small town.'
    Good point! A small city.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited December 2018
    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
    I would strongly advise you not to let anyone from Salisbury hear you calling it 'a small town.'
    It's technically a city of course but it is small - 2011 census population 40,302, which I confess was much lower than I had assumed.

    EDIT: tbf the Salisbury 'urban zone' had a population of over 62,000 in 2011, which seems more reasonable.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,520
    My inexpert views:

    1) This is organised, but not highly organised. In that there is probably more than one person involved, but real chaos would see Heathrow, Stansted, Manchester, Birmingham etc having the same thing happen). It's also probably not too expensive to pull off.

    2) It is not directly endangering lives, because the airport authorities have acted in the proper manner. As such I cannot see it as 'terrorism'. If they wanted terror, lasers are a much 'easier', discriminate, dangerous and cheaper method.

    3) Over reactions to this might risk life more than the actual act itself, e.g. trying to shoot the drones out of the sky.

    4) Technologically, this is quite hard to combat.

    Given this, I reckon it's airport protestors reacting to the recent guilty verdicts in trials.

    How would I combat it? One easy thing: immediately announce a reward of a million pounds to anyone not directly involved who gives evidence that leads to the jailing of the people doing this. It'll be far less than its cost people and airlines.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    edited December 2018

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
    I would strongly advise you not to let anyone from Salisbury hear you calling it 'a small town.'
    It's technically a city of course but it is small - 2011 census population 40,302, which I confess was much lower than I had assumed.
    Larger than Truro or Lichfield.

    Edit - anyway, I would describe 'forty thousand' as medium sized, not small.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    I hope Putin isn't behind the drones.

    I suspect he may be.
    That would be an act of war surely?
    He's used nerve agents in a small UK town, and his cyber warfare experts regularly try to disrupt Western economies and probably elections, so I wouldn't put it past him.

    I agree with @Richard_Tyndall that it could be airport protesters of some sort, but this seems to be on a rather large scale, over an extended period, and using heavy drones. That points to some well-funded and organised group.
    I would strongly advise you not to let anyone from Salisbury hear you calling it 'a small town.'
    It's technically a city of course but it is small - 2011 census population 40,302, which I confess was much lower than I had assumed.
    Larger than Truro or Lichfield.
    But smaller than many towns (c.f. my home town Hastings at 98,000).

    Ii has great facilities though - good museums, shops, restaurants (mainly chains tbf), cafes, and has to be one of the prettiest small city centres in England.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Still, I am sure we will be able to handle a No Deal Brexit, no sweat.
This discussion has been closed.