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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Northern Ireland polling suggests that a no deal Brexit co

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  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    That’s why the Republic’s debt burden per capita is higher than Greece’s is it.
    But Ireland has the economic prospects to grow out of that debt, with a well educated English speaking workforce and high tech industries, plus a worldwide diaspora in support. It would be the best thing that has happened in Ireland for decades.
    That’s why it’s national debt is increasing is it ? Against a backdrop of a shrinking world economy, higher EU contributions and possible access problems to U.K. markeys, your optimism exceeds that ofthe most optimistic Brexiteers about Brexit.
    Yes, there would be short term hiccups, and quite possibly some population movements*, but resolving the legacy of colonialism would be a step forward for both our islands.

    *Some of my own ancestors were Irish Presbyterians from the 26 counties.

    It will in 2019, if believe the experts so beloved of you Remainers, particularly as credit conditions are tightening. It will for the EU too if there is a no trade agreement with the U.K.

    If Brexiteers talk as glibly as you about “short term hiccups” you would be trying to lambast them. Pits and kettles, I think.

    I don’t really think your ancestors are particularly relevant to this discussion.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,915

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Big G is not a "frother" - He is quite pragmatic on Brexit to be fair.
  • Foxy said:

    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
    The grinding austerity in the UK which includes retail sales, house prices and employment levels at all time highs.

    With the government having borrowed a trillion quid to fund our desire of imported consumer tat and foreign holidays.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 39,849

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Pent up investment would be unleashed.
    Doesn’t that happen in any eventuality?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 9,451
    edited December 2018
    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
  • IanB2 said:

    And the drone returns...

    Maybe its a different drone ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 11,558

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    I know you display amazing cynicism but that is a step too far
    No, I am not a cynic. I have a healthy optimism concerning the human spirit. It is why I am a Lib Dem and a Remainer. Suspicious cynicism is no way to go through life, it rots the soul.

    My comment was meant as a joke! I do not seriously think that drone defence systems are running a protection racket.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,535

    The committed Leavers won't care. Brexit is a project for rural England.

    I'm liking the way this is shaping up. We get Dublin they get Chipping Sodbury
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
    So you would have supported Osborne taking that approach to the UK economy in 2010 and replicating Howe’s approach in his 1981 budget would you ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,451
    Danny565 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Gatwick reported suspended again

    LMAO.

    How incompetent are the "powers that be".
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Pent up investment would be unleashed.
    And could you put a number to this and tell us which sectors of the economy might benefit ?
  • Foxy said:

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    It is a bold prediction, but I dont think much will happen. May will run down the clock and we will No Deal. It will be bad but not the rat eating zombie holocaust of our more exciteable press.
    You know, for the first time my instinct tells me we will not leave. I accept TM deal as Brexit but if it does not survive the pressure for a referendum will be overwhelming and is the most likely path out of the impasse

    My instinct is usually quite good
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,535
    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    A friend of mine thinks it was an owl.....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,489
    Danny565 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Gatwick reported suspended again

    LMAO.

    How incompetent are the "powers that be".
    Looks like an Air Maroc flight from Casablanca pulled out of final approach a couple of miles east of Gatwick and did several stack loops before diverting to Heathrow, where it is on approach now.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,915
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    I had wondered whether it is the Russians flexing their muscles and running a dry run for this type of thing. Putin has said he welcomes Brexit, his country may well have financed Leave.

    It does not take a massive stretch of the imagination to wonder if he has plans to cripple the economy even more if a No Deal Brexit occurs. What better way for hostile states to the UK to cause further shocks to the economy than close all the big airports down with drones operated by Russian agents or private contractors? Its cost to them maybe £10,000 for the equipment and the man power very little. Its cost to our economy massive!

    A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy and the economic fallout will leave the UK less able to protect itself from hostile states.
    They can do that with or without Brexit.
    Yes, but it has more economic and psychological impact if a No Deal Brexit occurs.

    Look to recent statements from the Chief officer of the Port of Dover on their inability to function in a hard Brexit. If you have all the ports gridlocked, then the airports are shutdown the economy will be severely impaired.

    Given the UKs present relations with Russia it is not inconceivable that this sort of attack on our infrastructure might be co-ordinated with the biggest self-imposed hit to our economy in years.
    In my opinion it is more likely to be a non-state actor. I’m not sure what the response would be if it was found to be the Russians. Would be totally unacceptable.
    I think it would be a non-state actor but financed by Russia.

    The sort of activity that has been going on in Ukraine for instance. Russia have changed the method of war by creating asymmetrical conflicts that seem to be inspired by terrorist type activity.

    If it is Russian backed interference in our infrastructure, what can we do other than pile more sanctions on them and increase counter intelligence spending.

    The UK is wide open to Russian interference, I hope OFCOM closes RT down as well! I say this in the knowledge that the World service will be shut down in Russia as well. Surely, the World Service should be replaced by something that actively promotes western values instead of being a balanced broadcast. Play them at their own game!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 8,524
    I see the drones are back

    Over Gatwick, not the remainers on here :-)

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 11,558

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
    So you would have supported Osborne taking that approach to the UK economy in 2010 and replicating Howe’s approach in his 1981 budget would you ?
    Yes, and I think that I posted here in that line at the time. I am socially liberal and internationalist in outlook, but dry as dust on financial matters. I hate debt and think it offensive to overspend now and send the bill to our children.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 1,965
    Not looking good for my flight out of Gatwick in a few days.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    I know you display amazing cynicism but that is a step too far
    No, I am not a cynic. I have a healthy optimism concerning the human spirit. It is why I am a Lib Dem and a Remainer. Suspicious cynicism is no way to go through life, it rots the soul.

    My comment was meant as a joke! I do not seriously think that drone defence systems are running a protection racket.

    Maybe I was a bit unfair Dr Foxy and let us all hope that the disaster that is Brexit is resolved to the approval of a majority

    May you have a wonderful christmas and may we all have a great 2019 either with the WDA now on offer or we remain
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
    A 'boost to the pound' would make it harder for both exporting businesses and the the UK tourism industry.

    As to 'unlock massive investment' perhaps you could tell us how many billions you think that would be, who would be doing all this extra investing and which sectors of the UK economy would benefit.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Big G is not a "frother" - He is quite pragmatic on Brexit to be fair.
    BigG froths on the basis of what he has most recently seen or heard.

    For example a couple of months back he was in a fury about how the EU had treated May and wanted to Leave under any circumstances.
  • The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,878
    nico67 said:

    A united Ireland would be wonderful revenge on the DUP for backing Leave and acting as if they talk for the whole of NI.

    It’s clear they want a hard border and are stupidly short sighted .

    I had to laugh listening to LBC when a Leave caller rang up moaning they’re going to lose their freedom of movement and had wanted to retire to Spain ! Because of course some Brits think they’re special and stopping FOM was only going to be for EU nationals, all they had to do was wave their blue passport and the world was their oyster !

    That’s the thing Leavers don’t understand , normally votes don’t remove other peoples rights but Brexit did and that’s why there’s no chance of the country coming together .

    Brits will now be second class citizens of Europe , less rights and freedoms . Thank heavens my parents were born in an EU country and I can remain a proud citizen of the EU .

    What a tragedy for those who aren’t that lucky especially younger people who were completely betrayed by many of their grandparents who should be utterly ashamed !

    FOM has nothing to do with retiring in the EU. Retiring is and always was at the discretion of the nation state. Usually dependent on having medical insurance and an income large enough so the person would not be a burden on the country.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
    A 'boost to the pound' would make it harder for both exporting businesses and the the UK tourism industry.

    As to 'unlock massive investment' perhaps you could tell us how many billions you think that would be, who would be doing all this extra investing and which sectors of the UK economy would benefit.
    Many billions and all sectors
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,586

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Please help me as I am not sure of your query
    Some relationships are given specific names to make things quicker to write down. For example:

    * The child of my father's brother is my "first cousin"
    * The child of my first cousin is my "first cousin once removed"
    * The grandchild of my grandfather's brother is my "second cousin"
    * The child of my second cousin is my "second cousin once removed"

    You referred to "your son-in-law's father", who is the father of the man who married your daughter. I was wondering if there was a specific name for that relationship.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 5,317
    edited December 2018
    The re-unification of Ireland seems inevitable before too long and therefore it would be preferable if it came about through clear and settled consent and under benign and stable conditions, e.g. not as a consequence of the UK tumbling in disarray out of the European Union. Under those circumstances people on both sides of the border and both sides of the Irish Sea will be stressed and not be thinking straight.

    Please parliament, do not let us tumble in disarray out of the European Union.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 28,069
    edited December 2018

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Big G is not a "frother" - He is quite pragmatic on Brexit to be fair.
    BigG froths on the basis of what he has most recently seen or heard.

    For example a couple of months back he was in a fury about how the EU had treated May and wanted to Leave under any circumstances.
    That was a long time ago. I am consistent that I support TM brexit or if not remain

    Just because I detect a change in mood and express it does not make it wrong, though it does seem to upset you and I am sorry if it does
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 64,110
    Given Northern Ireland voters clearly prefer staying in the UK to a United Ireland in the event of May's Deal and EUref2 and Remain but switch to backing a United Ireland in the event of a hard border with the Republic and No Deal then the biggest threats to the Union in Northern Ireland ironically have come from the DUP who both backed Leave unlike the UUP and now prefer No Deal to May's Deal
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899
    Scott_P said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Gatwick reported suspended again

    LMAO.

    How incompetent are the "powers that be".
    If the answer is Grayling, the question is 'how fucked are we ?'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899

    My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Big G is not a "frother" - He is quite pragmatic on Brexit to be fair.
    BigG froths on the basis of what he has most recently seen or heard.

    For example a couple of months back he was in a fury about how the EU had treated May and wanted to Leave under any circumstances.
    That's not frothing; it's righteous indignation.
    :smile:
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,878
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 27,394
    edited December 2018

    Does anyone know how consumption levels in NI compare with the UK in general ?

    Because consumption per head in the UK is at 114 compared with 93 in the RoI (100 being the EU average):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumptionperhead/2018

    (That's because we over-consume relative to our incomes. And because the Irish are still paying down some of their pre-Eurozone crisis debts.)

    Edit: to answer your original question, my guess would be that NI consumption is marginally below the Republic, something in the 80-90 range.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Please help me as I am not sure of your query
    Some relationships are given specific names to make things quicker to write down. For example:

    * The child of my father's brother is my "first cousin"
    * The child of my first cousin is my "first cousin once removed"
    * The grandchild of my grandfather's brother is my "second cousin"
    * The child of my second cousin is my "second cousin once removed"

    You referred to "your son-in-law's father", who is the father of the man who married your daughter. I was wondering if there was a specific name for that relationship.
    I really do not think so and that is why I expressed it the way I did but it would be very interesting if there is a specific name for it
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,709

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    They can do that with or without Brexit.

    Yes, but it has more economic and psychological impact if a No Deal Brexit occurs.

    Look to recent statements from the Chief officer of the Port of Dover on their inability to function in a hard Brexit. If you have all the ports gridlocked, then the airports are shutdown the economy will be severely impaired.

    Given the UKs present relations with Russia it is not inconceivable that this sort of attack on our infrastructure might be co-ordinated with the biggest self-imposed hit to our economy in years.
    In my opinion it is more likely to be a non-state actor. I’m not sure what the response would be if it was found to be the Russians. Would be totally unacceptable.
    I think it would be a non-state actor but financed by Russia.

    The sort of activity that has been going on in Ukraine for instance. Russia have changed the method of war by creating asymmetrical conflicts that seem to be inspired by terrorist type activity.

    If it is Russian backed interference in our infrastructure, what can we do other than pile more sanctions on them and increase counter intelligence spending.

    The UK is wide open to Russian interference, I hope OFCOM closes RT down as well! I say this in the knowledge that the World service will be shut down in Russia as well. Surely, the World Service should be replaced by something that actively promotes western values instead of being a balanced broadcast. Play them at their own game!
    The correct answer, when they murdered people on our soil, was to retaliate in kind and kill a couple of theirs on their home turf. An equal and proportionate response. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

    Once the playground bully knows he has the best of you, he will keep coming back for more.

    It sounds extreme, but once you have read Aleksander Dugin and understand how these people operate, it really is the only response. The weaker we look, the more the vultures (or the drones) will circle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899
    I really hope this judge gets to sentence Trump....

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/james-wolfe-sentencing
    "This court routinely sentences people who come from nothing, who have nothing, and whose life circumstances are such that they really don't have a realistic shot of doing anything other than committing crimes," Jackson said. "The unfortunate life circumstances of those defendants don't result in a lower penalty, so why should someone who had every chance of doing the right thing, a person who society rightly expects to live up to high moral and ethical standards and who has no excuse for breaking the law, be treated any better in this regard."
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
    A 'boost to the pound' would make it harder for both exporting businesses and the the UK tourism industry.

    As to 'unlock massive investment' perhaps you could tell us how many billions you think that would be, who would be doing all this extra investing and which sectors of the UK economy would benefit.
    Many billions and all sectors
    Another meaningless comment.

    So let me make it easy for you.

    How much do you think business investment would increase if we Remain ?

    1% ? 2% ? 5% ? 10% ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,447
    kyf_100 said:

    It sounds extreme, but once you have read Aleksander Dugin and understand how these people operate, it really is the only response. The weaker we look, the more the vultures (or the drones) will circle.

    Dugin is very keen on Brexit, you know?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355
    edited December 2018

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
  • The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
  • RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
    There is a huge investment in new pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. This is real business not just accounting trick

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,637

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Please help me as I am not sure of your query
    Some relationships are given specific names to make things quicker to write down. For example:

    * The child of my father's brother is my "first cousin"
    * The child of my first cousin is my "first cousin once removed"
    * The grandchild of my grandfather's brother is my "second cousin"
    * The child of my second cousin is my "second cousin once removed"

    You referred to "your son-in-law's father", who is the father of the man who married your daughter. I was wondering if there was a specific name for that relationship.
    I really do not think so and that is why I expressed it the way I did but it would be very interesting if there is a specific name for it
    Logic suggests that your son-in-law's father is you-in-law, if you think about it.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,915
    kyf_100 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    They can do that with or without Brexit.

    Yes, but it has more economic and psychological impact if a No Deal Brexit occurs.

    Look to recent statements from the Chief officer of the Port of Dover on their inability to function in a hard Brexit. If you have all the ports gridlocked, then the airports are shutdown the economy will be severely impaired.

    Given the UKs present relations with Russia it is not inconceivable that this sort of attack on our infrastructure might be co-ordinated with the biggest self-imposed hit to our economy in years.
    In my opinion it is more likely to be a non-state actor. I’m not sure what the response would be if it was found to be the Russians. Would be totally unacceptable.
    I think it would be a non-state actor but financed by Russia.

    The sort of activity that has been going on in Ukraine for instance. Russia have changed the method of war by creating asymmetrical conflicts that seem to be inspired by terrorist type activity.

    If it is Russian backed interference in our infrastructure, what can we do other than pile more sanctions on them and increase counter intelligence spending.

    The UK is wide open to Russian interference, I hope OFCOM closes RT down as well! I say this in the knowledge that the World service will be shut down in Russia as well. Surely, the World Service should be replaced by something that actively promotes western values instead of being a balanced broadcast. Play them at their own game!
    The correct answer, when they murdered people on our soil, was to retaliate in kind and kill a couple of theirs on their home turf. An equal and proportionate response. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

    Once the playground bully knows he has the best of you, he will keep coming back for more.

    It sounds extreme, but once you have read Aleksander Dugin and understand how these people operate, it really is the only response. The weaker we look, the more the vultures (or the drones) will circle.
    I agree, You have to be tough on them and proportionally respond. It would not surprise me if the Russians are behind these Drones, a dry run for the end of March 2019 when this country will if No Deal occurs be under critical stress on all of our borders.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
    A 'boost to the pound' would make it harder for both exporting businesses and the the UK tourism industry.

    As to 'unlock massive investment' perhaps you could tell us how many billions you think that would be, who would be doing all this extra investing and which sectors of the UK economy would benefit.
    Many billions and all sectors
    Another meaningless comment.

    So let me make it easy for you.

    How much do you think business investment would increase if we Remain ?

    1% ? 2% ? 5% ? 10% ?
    10% plus
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
  • Mr. Twelve, ha. I would've gone for Northumbria, or Greater Yorkshire, but there we are.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    Please help me as I am not sure of your query
    Some relationships are given specific names to make things quicker to write down. For example:

    * The child of my father's brother is my "first cousin"
    * The child of my first cousin is my "first cousin once removed"
    * The grandchild of my grandfather's brother is my "second cousin"
    * The child of my second cousin is my "second cousin once removed"

    You referred to "your son-in-law's father", who is the father of the man who married your daughter. I was wondering if there was a specific name for that relationship.
    I really do not think so and that is why I expressed it the way I did but it would be very interesting if there is a specific name for it
    Logic suggests that your son-in-law's father is you-in-law, if you think about it.
    Thanks for helping out but not sure
  • RobDRobD Posts: 39,849

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
    There is a huge investment in new pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. This is real business not just accounting trick

    Yeah, some is real, some isn't.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    Mr. Twelve, ha. I would've gone for Northumbria, or Greater Yorkshire, but there we are.

    Contradiction in terms :)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 8,524
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
    So you would have supported Osborne taking that approach to the UK economy in 2010 and replicating Howe’s approach in his 1981 budget would you ?
    Yes, and I think that I posted here in that line at the time. I am socially liberal and internationalist in outlook, but dry as dust on financial matters. I hate debt and think it offensive to overspend now and send the bill to our children.
    Don't you complain about austerity - how to square that circle?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 49,311

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're not all winners, admittedly. When it has been referenced previously people have questioned if the population divisions shown are accurate. Cool map though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
    There is a huge investment in new pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. This is real business not just accounting trick

    So you're saying the Irish economy is going high on drugs?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone know how consumption levels in NI compare with the UK in general ?

    Because consumption per head in the UK is at 114 compared with 93 in the RoI (100 being the EU average):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumptionperhead/2018

    (That's because we over-consume relative to our incomes. And because the Irish are still paying down some of their pre-Eurozone crisis debts.)

    Edit: to answer your original question, my guess would be that NI consumption is marginally below the Republic, something in the 80-90 range.
    There's certainly a factor within the consumption figures of which countries are living within or beyond their means.

    I'd like to see that calibrated on that basis.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,863
    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899
    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 8,524
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    A friend of mine thinks it was an owl.....
    Was it one of Labours free ones?

    On a serious note Roger ask your friend which owls have red and blue lights :-)
  • SirBenjaminSirBenjamin Posts: 195
    edited December 2018
    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.
  • ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    Norland would not be entirely inappropriate...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norland,_West_Yorkshire
  • RobDRobD Posts: 39,849

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    You could argue it was unified while within the UK.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899
    edited December 2018
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
    There is a huge investment in new pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. This is real business not just accounting trick

    So you're saying the Irish economy is going high on drugs?
    And chips*.

    Not terrifically healthy, I'll grant.

    *Intel's Fab 24, for example.
  • tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    No.

    They'd say the recession would be much deeper and longer if we Leave.
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    So Greater Durham then?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 1,965
    All check-in further out than 90mins suspended and passengers being told that there will likely be no further flights going out tonight.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 28,617
    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    A friend of mine thinks it was an owl.....
    Was it one of Labours free ones?

    On a serious note Roger ask your friend which owls have red and blue lights :-)
    There is a Red Owl in Madagascar, but I think not named for its onboard lighting system.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,863

    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    No.

    They'd say the recession would be much deeper and longer if we Leave.
    That would require discipline from remainer commentators to not attribute the recession to Brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    The Prince Bishopric was part of what had been Northumbria, but Northumbria was not the Prince Bishopric.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,915
    edited December 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    A No Deal Brexit would in those circumstances be a secondary shock to a recession hit economy. A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy, if the UK were in recession then it could well turn into a depression in those circumstances as further demand would be deferred by domestic consumers as well as the external shocks associated with Brexit.


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
    Those seem good words. Can we steal them into English along with (off the top of my head) khaki, pyjamas, etc?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    The Prince Bishopric was part of what had been Northumbria, but Northumbria was not the Prince Bishopric.
    And Northumbria is not Northland, neither.
    As an administrative region, there is much to be said for a Prince Bishopric.

    And it would wind up both the royalists and republicans.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 24,181
    edited December 2018
    Amazon trying to deliver a package by drone to RH6 0NP, retrying after failing yesterday?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    Not quite correct. Ireland became independent as one country in 1922. Six counties had an opt-out that came into effect if they chose to use it after one month. So it would be reunification.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,878

    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    A No Deal Brexit would in those circumstances be a secondary shock to a recession hit economy. A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy, if the UK were in recession then it could well turn into a depression in those circumstances as further demand would be deferred by domestic consumers as well as the external shocks associated with Brexit.


    I always ask myself would a no deal brexit be worse than the GFC? Seeing as that Nice Mr Carney tells me that the UK banks have piles of cash to fully support the economy, which they did not in the GFC, then my answer is no it will not.
  • RobD said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    You could argue it was unified while within the UK.
    Only in the same way that Crimea was unified within the USSR...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    The Prince Bishopric was part of what had been Northumbria, but Northumbria was not the Prince Bishopric.
    And Northumbria is not Northland, neither.
    As an administrative region, there is much to be said for a Prince Bishopric.

    And it would wind up both the royalists and republicans.
    And secularists.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    No.

    They'd say the recession would be much deeper and longer if we Leave.
    That would require discipline from remainer commentators to not attribute the recession to Brexit.
    We can blame the recession on the uncertainty caused by the potential of no deal.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 24,181
    edited December 2018

    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    A No Deal Brexit would in those circumstances be a secondary shock to a recession hit economy. A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy, if the UK were in recession then it could well turn into a depression in those circumstances as further demand would be deferred by domestic consumers as well as the external shocks associated with Brexit.


    I always ask myself would a no deal brexit be worse than the GFC? Seeing as that Nice Mr Carney tells me that the UK banks have piles of cash to fully support the economy, which they did not in the GFC, then my answer is no it will not.
    I think it could well be of about the same magnitude, although obviously different in terms of sectors most badly hit. But TBH no-one really knows, nothing like this has every been tried before.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
    Those seem good words. Can we steal them into English along with (off the top of my head) khaki, pyjamas, etc?
    Father: You see, you have these English people sitting on the veranda's of their bungalow's. looking at the jungle, using their shampoo. And they talk about Western Civilisation! Rubbish!

    Son: (sighs with despair) Well, I don't think you can discount the whole of Western Civilisation just because they borrowed the word shampoo.

    Father: Ah, not just shampoo. Also conditioner.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 21,531

    tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    A No Deal Brexit would in those circumstances be a secondary shock to a recession hit economy. A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy, if the UK were in recession then it could well turn into a depression in those circumstances as further demand would be deferred by domestic consumers as well as the external shocks associated with Brexit.


    There's the interesting point arising, that if the Tories deny the people's vote now, there could be a big political price to pay if people decide later on that they really should have been given a say.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 3,237
    edited December 2018
    W

    nico67 said:

    A united Ireland would be wonderful revenge on the DUP for backing Leave and acting as if they talk for the whole of NI.

    It’s clear they want a hard border and are stupidly short sighted .

    I had to laugh listening to LBC when a Leave caller rang up moaning they’re going to lose their freedom of movement and had wanted to retire to Spain ! Because of course some Brits think they’re special and stopping FOM was only going to be for EU nationals, all they had to do was wave their blue passport and the world was their oyster !

    That’s the thing Leavers don’t understand , normally votes don’t remove other peoples rights but Brexit did and that’s why there’s no chance of the country coming together .

    Brits will now be second class citizens of Europe , less rights and freedoms . Thank heavens my parents were born in an EU country and I can remain a proud citizen of the EU .

    What a tragedy for those who aren’t that lucky especially younger people who were completely betrayed by many of their grandparents who should be utterly ashamed !

    FOM has nothing to do with retiring in the EU. Retiring is and always was at the discretion of the nation state. Usually dependent on having medical insurance and an income large enough so the person would not be a burden on the country.
    Whilst technically true, being able to retire in the EU has become a defacto right that will be sorely missed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    So Greater Durham then?
    As I said, there would be dispute about the centre of influence. Pretty sure that York would throw its hat (or mitre) into the ring.
    And of course the arrivistes of Leeds and Manchester might want to make a case.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 39,849
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The pro-EU types may go a bit misty-eyed at this map:

    “North-Land”?!?
    They're ignorant of history, they think Northumbria is a quaint name for an English county, not a country.
    I would suggest using Prince Bishopric rather than country (though there might be some argument about the seat of power).
    And after all, it is a description not unknown in Europe.
    The Prince Bishopric was part of what had been Northumbria, but Northumbria was not the Prince Bishopric.
    A region so large would surely be a Prince Archbishopric?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
    Those seem good words. Can we steal them into English along with (off the top of my head) khaki, pyjamas, etc?
    Sounds like cultural appropriation* to me.

    I mean the curry is the national dish of the UK which delighted my mother, so yes you can use this word.

    *I hold people who accuse others of cultural appropriation one rung below people who eat pineapple pizza and think Mark Reckless is a good egg.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 22,355

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
    Those seem good words. Can we steal them into English along with (off the top of my head) khaki, pyjamas, etc?
    Father: You see, you have these English people sitting on the veranda's of their bungalow's. looking at the jungle, using their shampoo. And they talk about Western Civilisation! Rubbish!

    Son: (sighs with despair) Well, I don't think you can discount the whole of Western Civilisation just because they borrowed the word shampoo.

    Father: Ah, not just shampoo. Also conditioner.
    Setting conditioners on using the words?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 39,849

    W

    nico67 said:

    A united Ireland would be wonderful revenge on the DUP for backing Leave and acting as if they talk for the whole of NI.

    It’s clear they want a hard border and are stupidly short sighted .

    I had to laugh listening to LBC when a Leave caller rang up moaning they’re going to lose their freedom of movement and had wanted to retire to Spain ! Because of course some Brits think they’re special and stopping FOM was only going to be for EU nationals, all they had to do was wave their blue passport and the world was their oyster !

    That’s the thing Leavers don’t understand , normally votes don’t remove other peoples rights but Brexit did and that’s why there’s no chance of the country coming together .

    Brits will now be second class citizens of Europe , less rights and freedoms . Thank heavens my parents were born in an EU country and I can remain a proud citizen of the EU .

    What a tragedy for those who aren’t that lucky especially younger people who were completely betrayed by many of their grandparents who should be utterly ashamed !

    FOM has nothing to do with retiring in the EU. Retiring is and always was at the discretion of the nation state. Usually dependent on having medical insurance and an income large enough so the person would not be a burden on the country.
    Whilst technically true, being able to retire in the EU has become a defacto right that will be sorely missed.
    Sounds as though it's not a de facto right though, if they are requirements. Likely these requirements won't change after Brexit.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,621
    Mr Nabavi,

    "Amazon trying to deliver a package by drone to RH6 0NP, retrying after failing yesterday? "

    Nah, it's the Greens, isn't it. Nothing's too stupid for them. Best execute the lot of them, think of the carbon dioxide emissions we'd save.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,709

    kyf_100 said:



    I think it would be a non-state actor but financed by Russia.

    The sort of activity that has been going on in Ukraine for instance. Russia have changed the method of war by creating asymmetrical conflicts that seem to be inspired by terrorist type activity.

    If it is Russian backed interference in our infrastructure, what can we do other than pile more sanctions on them and increase counter intelligence spending.

    The UK is wide open to Russian interference, I hope OFCOM closes RT down as well! I say this in the knowledge that the World service will be shut down in Russia as well. Surely, the World Service should be replaced by something that actively promotes western values instead of being a balanced broadcast. Play them at their own game!

    The correct answer, when they murdered people on our soil, was to retaliate in kind and kill a couple of theirs on their home turf. An equal and proportionate response. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

    Once the playground bully knows he has the best of you, he will keep coming back for more.

    It sounds extreme, but once you have read Aleksander Dugin and understand how these people operate, it really is the only response. The weaker we look, the more the vultures (or the drones) will circle.
    I agree, You have to be tough on them and proportionally respond. It would not surprise me if the Russians are behind these Drones, a dry run for the end of March 2019 when this country will if No Deal occurs be under critical stress on all of our borders.
    That is a terrifying thought and all too believeable, since our politicans appear incapable of organising a light afternoon drinking session in a brewery.

    Without wishing to trivialise the crimes they've committed, the Russian government are playing a brilliant game.

    We don't know the Gatwick Droner is the Russians. It could be eco-nutters, it could be 4chan for heaven's sake. But the Russians have played their cards in such a way as we think it might be them. For good reason - it could actually be them.

    I think when the history books are written about this era, it will be said that the cold war didn't end, it merely changed shape.

    The Russians have mastered postmodern warfare. Dugin and his disciples are what you get if you cross Baudrillard with Goebbels and give them the nihilistic bent of a sixteen year old who's just discovered Nietzsche and amphetamines.

    They are fighting a superior war - muskets against our swords, machine guns against our rifles, tanks against our cavalry.

    The history books may look back on this time as a time of war. One which, at present, the west is losing.

    Has there ever been a theory more discredited than Fukuyama's?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 15,899

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    "My son in law's father"

    Is there a word for this relationship?

    I bet there is a word for it in Punjabi. There are about half a dozen different words for uncle, depending on the specific relationship. I'll have to check when Wor Lass gets home.

    Edit - and of course the word 'uncle' is reserved for men who aren't your uncle!
    Calling @TSE

    If Punjab fails us, what about Punjabi French?
    Kurrum in Punjabi. Samdi in Urdu.

    I had to ask my Mum, is a catch all term for the parents of the person your kids have married.
    Those seem good words. Can we steal them into English along with (off the top of my head) khaki, pyjamas, etc?
    Father: You see, you have these English people sitting on the veranda's of their bungalow's. looking at the jungle, using their shampoo. And they talk about Western Civilisation! Rubbish!

    Son: (sighs with despair) Well, I don't think you can discount the whole of Western Civilisation just because they borrowed the word shampoo.

    Father: Ah, not just shampoo. Also conditioner.
    You are a veritable Pundit...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 11,558

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    I know you display amazing cynicism but that is a step too far
    No, I am not a cynic. I have a healthy optimism concerning the human spirit. It is why I am a Lib Dem and a Remainer. Suspicious cynicism is no way to go through life, it rots the soul.

    My comment was meant as a joke! I do not seriously think that drone defence systems are running a protection racket.

    Maybe I was a bit unfair Dr Foxy and let us all hope that the disaster that is Brexit is resolved to the approval of a majority

    May you have a wonderful christmas and may we all have a great 2019 either with the WDA now on offer or we remain
    I have drawn the short straw at work so have a fairly busy week of emergency duties. Generally it goes a bit quieter, but yours truly will need to be sober and available all week. As if to grind my nose in it, patients and colleagues keep giving me bottles of wine and whisky, much appreciated in the long term, but cruel in the meantime!

    I actually think that despite all the huffing and puffing, Brexit will go with a whimper. Little will change, and both the hopes of the Brexiteers and the fears of the Remainers will be turn out to be greatly exagerrated. Indeed, so little will change that people will wonder what the point was. Probably the populists will be the most disappointed as the distressed towns and coast continue to languish in the doldrums.

    All the best to you and yours.
  • Mr. Rentool, Mr. India was my favourite Goodness Gracious Me character. The skit on the royal family was especially good.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Even TM deal saw a boost to the pound, remain would not only see a boost to the pound but would unlock massive investment into the UK

    It is the absolute reverse of no deal
    A 'boost to the pound' would make it harder for both exporting businesses and the the UK tourism industry.

    As to 'unlock massive investment' perhaps you could tell us how many billions you think that would be, who would be doing all this extra investing and which sectors of the UK economy would benefit.
    Many billions and all sectors
    Another meaningless comment.

    So let me make it easy for you.

    How much do you think business investment would increase if we Remain ?

    1% ? 2% ? 5% ? 10% ?
    10% plus
    The biggest annual increase in business investment in recent years was 7% in 2012 and the average since 1997 has only been about 2%.

    So with us due a cyclical recession you can forget about 10% let alone 10% plus.

    And a 10% increase in business investment would amount to less than 1% of GDP in any case.
  • tlg86 said:

    Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier today. Suppose we do have another referendum - say next October - and by then the economy is in recession. Do remainers promise to end the recession with a vote to remain in the EU?

    A No Deal Brexit would in those circumstances be a secondary shock to a recession hit economy. A No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy, if the UK were in recession then it could well turn into a depression in those circumstances as further demand would be deferred by domestic consumers as well as the external shocks associated with Brexit.


    I always ask myself would a no deal brexit be worse than the GFC? Seeing as that Nice Mr Carney tells me that the UK banks have piles of cash to fully support the economy, which they did not in the GFC, then my answer is no it will not.
    What caused the GFC shouldn't happen given the capital adequacy requirements and splitting of bank operations.

    The GFC wasn't a normal recession, there was no massive increases in interest rates or inflation.

    A No Deal recession could see both of those as well as a seizure of the economy.
  • My son in laws father called today and is really angry over brexit and is demanding a referendum

    I have never heard him mention the subject or politics before and he added he would not be able to vote for any party at present

    I expect the next 17 days will see a big move to remain and a referendum and brexit last, and only chance, is TM deal, but I doubt it will get past the amendments

    My prediction for 2019 is an extension to A50, a referendum and conclusive vote to remain in the EU which will see a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer

    If you could cease the frothing for a minute would you be so kind to explain why a vote to Remain would see 'a huge uplift in the economy from the early summer' ?
    Big G is not a "frother" - He is quite pragmatic on Brexit to be fair.
    BigG froths on the basis of what he has most recently seen or heard.

    For example a couple of months back he was in a fury about how the EU had treated May and wanted to Leave under any circumstances.
    That was a long time ago. I am consistent that I support TM brexit or if not remain

    Just because I detect a change in mood and express it does not make it wrong, though it does seem to upset you and I am sorry if it does
    I'm not upset so there's no need for you to feel sorry.

    But general moods tend to change more slowly than for those who excessively consume Sky News and BBC political programs.
  • Awb683Awb683 Posts: 80
    If we get a united Ireland after a proper Brexit so be it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 49,311
    Awb683 said:

    If we get a united Ireland after a proper Brexit so be it.

    Fair play to you for preferring that, but a lot of the harder Brexiters are seemingly in favour of the UK union, so should be more concerned at its break up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 21,531
    The 'expert' on WATO was speculating that since they wouldn't have risked re-opening Gatwick purely because no-one had seen the drone for a while, they must have imported some of the anti-drone technology that Heathrow already has. But it appears not.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 5,317
    Just thinking back to the tumultuous year of 1989, the collapse of the Soviet Bloc and as a consequence the re-unification of Germany. Berlin Wall coming down, remember that? An event so globally momentous and joyful that only a concert on the scene, right there and then, by David Hasselhoff could carry the weight of it all.

    And it got me wondering. Could we be seeing something similar with Ireland, 30 years later in 2019?

    The Emerald Isle at long last intact and whole again, NI waving a cheery goodbye to the UK, embracing the prosperous South as the erstwhile Mother Ship, vandalized beyond repair by an angry and malevolent Hard Brexit, sinks slowly, majestically beneath the waves. Concert this time not Hasselhoff, obviously, but somebody like Ronan Keating or (if something a little more high brow is thought appropriate) Johnny Logan.

    Unlikely? Sure. Vanishingly unlikely. But not impossible.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This drone story is most odd I must say.

    For two days, an airport is shut down. The drone (or drones) is not shot out of the sky but just stops appearing. No individual or group claims responsibility. The operator is not, as far as we know, found and arrested. And yet from one day to the next, the airport is declared safe for flying.

    It is most odd.

    High tech drone detection and tracking systems have been installed and effectively negates the drone

    It is likely the company who have developed this tech will be in line for billions of pounds worth of contracts worldwide
    Perhaps it's them operating the drone...
    I know you display amazing cynicism but that is a step too far
    No, I am not a cynic. I have a healthy optimism concerning the human spirit. It is why I am a Lib Dem and a Remainer. Suspicious cynicism is no way to go through life, it rots the soul.

    My comment was meant as a joke! I do not seriously think that drone defence systems are running a protection racket.

    Maybe I was a bit unfair Dr Foxy and let us all hope that the disaster that is Brexit is resolved to the approval of a majority

    May you have a wonderful christmas and may we all have a great 2019 either with the WDA now on offer or we remain
    I have drawn the short straw at work so have a fairly busy week of emergency duties. Generally it goes a bit quieter, but yours truly will need to be sober and available all week. As if to grind my nose in it, patients and colleagues keep giving me bottles of wine and whisky, much appreciated in the long term, but cruel in the meantime!

    I actually think that despite all the huffing and puffing, Brexit will go with a whimper. Little will change, and both the hopes of the Brexiteers and the fears of the Remainers will be turn out to be greatly exagerrated. Indeed, so little will change that people will wonder what the point was. Probably the populists will be the most disappointed as the distressed towns and coast continue to languish in the doldrums.

    All the best to you and yours.
    I am sure the satisfaction you experience in undertaking your calling compensates for the downsides

    I do so hope we emerge as a happier and more at ease with itself country in 2019

    Best wishes for xmas and 2019 to all your family and friends
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 49,311
    kinabalu said:

    Just thinking back to the tumultuous year of 1989, the collapse of the Soviet Bloc and as a consequence the re-unification of Germany. Berlin Wall coming down, remember that? An event so globally momentous and joyful that only a concert on the scene, right there and then, by David Hasselhoff could carry the weight of it all.

    And it got me wondering. Could we be seeing something similar with Ireland, 30 years later in 2019?

    The Emerald Isle at long last intact and whole again, NI waving a cheery goodbye to the UK, embracing the prosperous South as the erstwhile Mother Ship, vandalized beyond repair by an angry and malevolent Hard Brexit, sinks slowly, majestically beneath the waves. Concert this time not Hasselhoff, obviously, but somebody like Ronan Keating or (if something a little more high brow is thought appropriate) Johnny Logan.

    Unlikely? Sure. Vanishingly unlikely. But not impossible.

    An analogy seemingly designed to upset those in support of the UK.
This discussion has been closed.