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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Corbyn could be the one to extend Article 50 in the New Ye

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  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    HYUFD said:

    As far as I can see the only difference between Corbyn's planned Deal and May's Deal is Corbyn wants the UK in a permanent Customs Union rather than a temporary Customs Union with a few more workers' rights added on, so if he did extend Article 50 that would be what he was aiming for

    Corbyn wants a cakeist customs union where the UK and Commission jointly run trade policy for the EU + UK.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    notme2 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    Are you been serious or polemic?
    Ironic
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    HYUFD said:

    As far as I can see the only difference between Corbyn's planned Deal and May's Deal is Corbyn wants the UK in a permanent Customs Union rather than a temporary Customs Union with a few more workers' rights added on, so if he did extend Article 50 that would be what he was aiming for

    Corbyn wants a cakeist customs union where the UK and Commission jointly run trade policy for the EU + UK.
    Here's an idea, why doesn't the EU join the UK? :p
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    As far as I can see the only difference between Corbyn's planned Deal and May's Deal is Corbyn wants the UK in a permanent Customs Union rather than a temporary Customs Union with a few more workers' rights added on, so if he did extend Article 50 that would be what he was aiming for

    It is not Corbyn's deal. It is Labour's and specifically Starmers. Jezza wants out of the capitalists club. Always has and always will.

    But he can't decide what to actually do, because he loses friends and fellow campaigners which ever way turns.

    This is instructive from Demos researcher: https://capx.co/brexit-will-be-jeremy-corbyns-waterloo/
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    More importantly, this is just brilliant:

    https://twitter.com/menosave/status/1076051191468036096/photo/1
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,574
    I don't think a GE is at all likely but if one happened before March 29 it would put the Tories in a much more difficult position than Labour imo.

    Would the ERG headbangers campaign under a manifesto that included May's deal? or a 2nd referendum?

    Equally, would Morgan Soubry, Clarke, Greive, Hammond, Rudd etc. etc. camapign for a manifesto which had No Deal in it?

    The more I think about it, let's have a snap GE! :lol:
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,574
    rcs1000 said:
    Brilliant!!

    (At least there are lots of edge pieces I see! :smile:)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    JohnO said:

    RobD said:

    I think all of these icecream puns are Fab.

    Although some do Zoom over my head.

    Meanwhile, we still await TSE's AV Magnum opus.

    That last one had me tittering like a schoolgirl. :D
    All in all it’s another brick of the Walls.
    Hope you're not gonna wafer a response to that one.
    If the Tories Split, how many Screwballs will be left?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113
    edited December 2018

    notme2 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    Are you been serious or polemic?
    Ironic
    You can't be ironic about a steelworks. It's a pig of thing to do.

    Corbyn is not having a great week:
    https://www.twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1076378828912689152
    But the suggestion Pidcock might be his successor is a crazy one. She would be the youngest leader of a political party since 1783, and she is no Pitt the Younger or even William Hague. She is controversial even among Labour and she still has awkward questions to answer about her work ethic (Italy vs UC, anybody)?

    Replacing Corbyn with her would be like replacing a pea-shooter with a water pistol before a battle with somebody sporting an AK 47.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113

    rcs1000 said:
    Brilliant!!

    (At least there are lots of edge pieces I see! :smile:)
    I can feel your enthusiasm crackling all through the servers...
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    Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    I think all of these icecream puns are Fab.

    Although some do Zoom over my head.

    Meanwhile, we still await TSE's AV Magnum opus.

    LOLly.
  • Options
    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113
    Donny43 said:

    I think all of these icecream puns are Fab.

    Although some do Zoom over my head.

    Meanwhile, we still await TSE's AV Magnum opus.

    LOLly.
    You deserve some stick for that.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
  • Options
    notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    We tried all of that. It just resulted in us making really shitty cars and products others don’t want. We now have highest levels of labour participation since the whole post war consensus in the 70s collapsed around us.

    How do you choose and direct who gets support?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113
    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    I was going to say 'politics' but on reflection...
  • Options
    notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.


    It was the people of Britain who voted to leave.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    As far as I can see the only difference between Corbyn's planned Deal and May's Deal is Corbyn wants the UK in a permanent Customs Union rather than a temporary Customs Union with a few more workers' rights added on, so if he did extend Article 50 that would be what he was aiming for

    It is not Corbyn's deal. It is Labour's and specifically Starmers. Jezza wants out of the capitalists club. Always has and always will.

    But he can't decide what to actually do, because he loses friends and fellow campaigners which ever way turns.

    This is instructive from Demos researcher: https://capx.co/brexit-will-be-jeremy-corbyns-waterloo/
    It is when Brexit Day looms and still Corbyn refuses to back EUref2 that problems will start to mount for him
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited December 2018
    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    Of course the Tories did it!!!! It's as stupid to say the Tories didn't do it as to say the Nazis didn't 'do it' because a majority of the public voted for Hitler. They asked the country a stupid question which they were unqualified to answer and we're left deep in the shit as a result.
  • Options


    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.

    Short-term yes, but you're taking on a debt: Those people who would have eventually got jobs in something more productive (where they had a comparative advantage) are still in destroying value, and you have to keep on subsidizing the business to keep them doing it.

    There may be a case for doing this kind of thing short-term to smooth the transition, but democratic politics isn't very good at making decisions like this; What tends to happen in practice is that resources get sucked into lobbying and bribing politicians instead, the people who need help don't get helped, and zombie industries just keep on sucking up subsidies indefinitely. Whereas if you help people whose industries die with normal methods like benefits, tax credits, free/subsidized education and training etc, the government doesn't have to micromanage who should get it, so there's less scope for corruption and mismanagement.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    Outdated? So no one builds ships, no one makes steel, no one mines coal, no one makes textiles, no one makes consumer white goods?

    All of these industries are very much alive and well. Elsewhere.

    That’s OK though - the nail bar sector is flourishing.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    The Tories are in charge and, at the moment, they are running full-steam towards the cliff-edge. They can see the polls showing opinion has changed but they insist that nothing has changed and we must Brexit.

    It is in their power to stop this. If they choose not to then the blame is all theirs.

    I will also save a portion for Corbyn, but his crime is more one of being a blinkered ar*e in thtrall to an out-moded and discredited political doctrine. Marxiem has been a failure everywhere it has been tried.

    If enough outraged MPs created a Centrist party with the countries best interests at heart then i wold vote for it in a heartbeat.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    Of course the Tories did it!!!! It's as stupid to say the Tories didn't do it as to say the Nazis didn't 'do it' because a majority of the public voted for Hitler. They asked the country a stupid question which they were unqualified to answer and we're left deep in the shit as a result.
    It may be a stupid question to people who want to remain in the EU.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited December 2018
    We are entitled to get a certain amount of expertise from our government if not a duty of care. If we wanted a bunch of moronic fat slobs from Harlipool to determine our future at least they could give us sufficent waning so that those of us with an IQ abouve room temperature could have time to make altenative arrangents.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    Nationalising and bailing out Rolls-Royce when they bankrupted themselves developing the RB211 was probably the right move in hindsight.
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    Outdated? So no one builds ships, no one makes steel, no one mines coal, no one makes textiles, no one makes consumer white goods?

    All of these industries are very much alive and well. Elsewhere.
    Yes, it's called China.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As far as I can see the only difference between Corbyn's planned Deal and May's Deal is Corbyn wants the UK in a permanent Customs Union rather than a temporary Customs Union with a few more workers' rights added on, so if he did extend Article 50 that would be what he was aiming for

    It is not Corbyn's deal. It is Labour's and specifically Starmers. Jezza wants out of the capitalists club. Always has and always will.

    But he can't decide what to actually do, because he loses friends and fellow campaigners which ever way turns.

    This is instructive from Demos researcher: https://capx.co/brexit-will-be-jeremy-corbyns-waterloo/
    It is when Brexit Day looms and still Corbyn refuses to back EUref2 that problems will start to mount for him
    If we get to that point, problems will loom for all of us :(
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    Of course the Tories did it!!!! It's as stupid to say the Tories didn't do it as to say the Nazis didn't 'do it' because a majority of the public voted for Hitler. They asked the country a stupid question which they were unqualified to answer and we're left deep in the shit as a result.
    It may be a stupid question to people who want to remain in the EU.
    I'm afraid it's a stupid question. Full stop. We are the EU and the EU are us. Their rules are our rules and vice versa. We can't split from then any more than we can split from ourselves because it is one and the same thing.
  • Options


    That’s OK though - the nail bar sector is flourishing.

    At the risk of sounding like the kind of cunt I hate, you're talking Britain down. Britain has a lot of really good industries that it does really well. Pharma is excellent, higher education is very good, software development is good and often great especially stuff like game development, finance is often world-beating. The things I mentioned are are *service* industries, but "service industry" doesn't equal "nail bar" and the hard currency you get for selling those services to foreigners is just as good as if you were selling them coal. And there's a fair bit of high-value-add manufacturing too.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,631
    edited December 2018

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    Outdated? So no one builds ships, no one makes steel, no one mines coal, no one makes textiles, no one makes consumer white goods?

    All of these industries are very much alive and well. Elsewhere.

    That’s OK though - the nail bar sector is flourishing.
    We still build ships, planes, cars and military vehicles. However we use bits from other countries in the construction process. Those bits will become harder to obtain post-Brexit and the locally-constructed substitutes will be more expensive and/or worse.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    Of course the Tories did it!!!! It's as stupid to say the Tories didn't do it as to say the Nazis didn't 'do it' because a majority of the public voted for Hitler. They asked the country a stupid question which they were unqualified to answer and we're left deep in the shit as a result.
    It may be a stupid question to people who want to remain in the EU.
    I'm afraid it's a stupid question. Full stop. We are the EU and the EU are us. Their rules are our rules and vice versa. We can't split from then any more than we can split from ourselves because it is one and the same thing.
    The EU is indivisible? You're having a laugh....
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited December 2018


    That’s OK though - the nail bar sector is flourishing.

    At the risk of sounding like the kind of cunt I hate, you're talking Britain down. Britain has a lot of really good industries that it does really well. Pharma is excellent, higher education is very good, software development is good and often great especially stuff like game development, finance is often world-beating. The things I mentioned are are *service* industries, but "service industry" doesn't equal "nail bar" and the hard currency you get for selling those services to foreigners is just as good as if you were selling them coal. And there's a fair bit of high-value-add manufacturing too.
    I completely agree. It always annoyed me that "services" are treated like an after-thought to Manufacturing. As if they were somehow 2nd rate
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited December 2018

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    MaxPB said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
    Indeed. The weak pound should be helping him like it’s helping other exporters. We’ve just had a record tear.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    You've been telling us all that was imminently going to happen for the last 30 months.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113
    edited December 2018
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    Of course the Tories did it!!!! It's as stupid to say the Tories didn't do it as to say the Nazis didn't 'do it' because a majority of the public voted for Hitler. They asked the country a stupid question which they were unqualified to answer and we're left deep in the shit as a result.
    There was no election in which a majority of the German public voted for Hitler. The best he managed in a contested election was 43% in 1933. The best he managed in a democratic election was 37% in July 1932 (and that was more than he got in a personal vote in the 1932 presidential election).

    There were referendums but they were rigged, had only one party for election, and were marked by even more massive massive voter intimidation.
  • Options
    Some good news for the Conservatives (and the country) - home ownership levels among the 25-34 age group are rising:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46649565
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    MaxPB said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076428655432208385
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    What if the sky doesn't fall in? What will you piss and moan about then?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    kle4 said:

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit .

    Holding the referendum was a Tory policy. The party was officially neutral, and did everything possible to legitimise Brexit so as not to offend their own members. This included having serving cabinet ministers say that if we vote Leave we can dictate the terms because they need us more than we need them.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,113

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    What if the sky doesn't fall in? What will you piss and moan about then?
    The weather.

    That's what we British do best.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    What if the sky doesn't fall in? What will you piss and moan about then?
    What excuses will you trot out if it does?
  • Options

    Some good news for the Conservatives (and the country) - home ownership levels among the 25-34 age group are rising:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46649565

    Why is it good for the country? It might be, but fans of Norman Tebbitt's "on your bike", German economic performance and Pret A Manger sandwiches, should note that renting means a more flexible labour market.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076428655432208385
    And yet semi manufactured goods exports are up, even the EU statistics say that they are importing more from the UK.

    It's much more likely that this guy has a bad business model and is trying to pin the blame elsewhere like Jamie Oliver when his restaurants went under.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    What if the sky doesn't fall in? What will you piss and moan about then?
    What excuses will you trot out if it does?
    None, what happens, happens.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    It's like you read the first half of my comment, but missed the second.

    What's wrong with how Germany has revitalised the forner DDR?
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
    He seems to be blaming everyone else for his own failings.

    Still anyone who stops working for him will soon be recruited by more successful businesses.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.
    I am pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

    "undertakings and organisations that are established in the United Kingdom but not in the EU and natural persons who reside in the United Kingdom will no longer be eligible to register .eu domain names or, if they are .eu registrants, to renew .eu domain names registered before the withdrawal date."

    https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/notice-stakeholders-withdrawal-united-kingdom-and-eu-rules-eu-domain-names
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

  • Options

    Some good news for the Conservatives (and the country) - home ownership levels among the 25-34 age group are rising:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46649565

    Why is it good for the country? It might be, but fans of Norman Tebbitt's "on your bike", German economic performance and Pret A Manger sandwiches, should note that renting means a more flexible labour market.
    I rather suspect that Norman's subsequent advice on finding a job would have been to buy a house.

    The converse to flexibility is stability - too much of one side is not necessarily a good thing.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited December 2018

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    Odd that his orders from the EU "withered" when other businesses have recorded a big gain in exports to the EU over the last couple of years.
    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076428655432208385
    And yet semi manufactured goods exports are up, even the EU statistics say that they are importing more from the UK.

    It's much more likely that this guy has a bad business model and is trying to pin the blame elsewhere like Jamie Oliver when his restaurants went under.
    Just read the guys posts - he talks about business down across the board and he explicitly mentioned China as a problem area

  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    What if the sky doesn't fall in? What will you piss and moan about then?
    The weather.

    That's what we British do best.
    Ah, the good old days.....
  • Options
    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    What's the problem with anybody having a 'eu' domain?
    Many companies have a 'tv' extension without having any connection to Tuvalu.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    The only one I can think of that ever gained any sort of traction is, rather ironically, leave.eu
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    What's the problem with anybody having a 'eu' domain?
    Many companies have a 'tv' extension without having any connection to Tuvalu.
    None, just weird if you are solely operating in the UK. Like I said, I suspect a lot of those are redirects.

    As for tv, it also stands for television. :smiley:
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    The only one I can think of that ever gained any sort of traction is, rather ironically, leave.eu
    Hah, very true. I hope the EU enjoys the couple of quid they get a year from that :p
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    Yes, the UK could do that - the domains are owned by countries and countries can do what they like. Japan does something similar with .co.jp domains: You have to provide a bunch of corporate registration documents to get one. (OTOH you can register .jp without any fuss.)

    Hopefully it won't be too long before a properly decentralized DNS system like ENS gets some traction and we won't have this weird layer of legacy nation states getting between us and our cat pictures.
  • Options
    notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    McDonnell said as much on Thursday. However, he went on to say that he agreed with the Varoufakis approach of sending as many socialists as possible to Brussels to achieve reform from within.
    Madness. The abandonment of state aid has made the whole European continent wealthier and leaner.
    I'm sure the former steelworkers of Redcar will agree.
    The UK lacks indigenous iron ore. It lacks cheap energy.

    Are you suggesting that the government should subsidise things that we cannot have a competitive advantage in perpetually?

    Or would it be better if the government - as happened in East Germany - encouraged and subsidised areas to move on?
    Look at the bigger picture. If you shut down industry the state has to pay people to sit at home. Healthcare costs rise. Social services costs rise. Criminality increases. Academic performance of the next generation declines. Other businesses in the area go to the wall. Our balance of payments deficit gets worse.

    It can be more cost effective for government to intervene to support British industry and British society. As well being the ethical thing to do.
    When you say ‘can’, could you point to an example of when supporting outdated industry has been a success?
    Nationalising and bailing out Rolls-Royce when they bankrupted themselves developing the RB211 was probably the right move in hindsight.
    Sometimes pragmatism requires exceptions. But it must only ever be done for a short time. The current single market rules do allow state aid in exceptional circumstances.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
    It's surprisingly common. However, the cost of setting up an Estonian subsidiary to own the .eu domain is de minimis
  • Options

    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    What's the problem with anybody having a 'eu' domain?
    Many companies have a 'tv' extension without having any connection to Tuvalu.
    That's because that's the policy of the people the nation of Tuvula granted that TLD to. Likewise .io, which also involves an extra layer of post-colonial exploitation.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
    We can ban non-UK companies if we wish. Don't see why we'd bother though.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    What's the problem with anybody having a 'eu' domain?
    Many companies have a 'tv' extension without having any connection to Tuvalu.
    None, just weird if you are solely operating in the UK. Like I said, I suspect a lot of those are redirects.

    As for tv, it also stands for television. :smiley:
    ... which is why the users chose it. Presumably Tuvalu gets some dosh out of it.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
    We can ban non-UK companies if we wish. Don't see why we'd bother though.
    No, lets leave the petty vindictiveness to the EU
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    Why were they using a .eu address in the first place if it's a UK-only company? I suspect a lot of these are just redirects. e.g., bbc.eu goes to bbc.co.uk
    What's the problem with anybody having a 'eu' domain?
    Many companies have a 'tv' extension without having any connection to Tuvalu.
    None, just weird if you are solely operating in the UK. Like I said, I suspect a lot of those are redirects.

    As for tv, it also stands for television. :smiley:
    ... which is why the users chose it. Presumably Tuvalu gets some dosh out of it.
    And the benefit of using only an eu address if you are UK company? Might be cheaper, but I suspect most of them are redirects to a uk address.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
    We can ban non-UK companies if we wish. Don't see why we'd bother though.
    I agree, it seems like a stupid and petty idea, if anything getting overseas companies to register .co.uk domains and websites/redirects is advantageous IMO.
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    A good article by Paul Johnson, Head of the Institute of Fiscal Studies, about why state aid rules are important.

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13759

    This was first published in The Times.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    For a bit of context, the most popular .eu site is a file-sharing site...

    https://domaintyper.com/top-websites/most-popular-websites-with-eu-domain
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

    Leave.eu might have to pay for some rebranding though. ;)
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

    Leave.eu might have to pay for some rebranding though. ;)
    Transition to Leave.uk and campaign for an independent England.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    What would you have him do? Enact a one man sit-in of the red benches over Christmas?
    Be a little more self aware in his tweeting - but then he's already revealed himself unfit to hold office again, so perhaps its not a bad thing.
    What a pathetic answer. Why should Christmas be cancelled exclusively for Lord Adonis?
    I think he should chain himself to the railings outside Parliament, in protest.
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    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...
    We can ban non-UK companies if we wish. Don't see why we'd bother though.
    I agree, it seems like a stupid and petty idea, if anything getting overseas companies to register .co.uk domains and websites/redirects is advantageous IMO.

    Different TLDs were established for different reasons and were approved on that basis. It's not possible to then change these rules without seeking agreement from ICANN - and that would be a very long and involved process. However, if the .eu TLD was designed specifically to allow EU-based businesses to identify themselves as such it also makes no sense to allow non-EU businesses to own them.

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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

    The waste of time and money comes in redoing existing materials, literature, businesses cards etc.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    rcs1000 said:
    The ideal Christmas present for a vegan
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

    The waste of time and money comes in redoing existing materials, literature, businesses cards etc.
    For the handful of companies that use it as their main address. The rest will just let it expire at no expense.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    That's just projection. Lot's of people support Brexit, and support the Conservatives accordingly,
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    And, if these problems don't occur, what will you complain about then?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    I should add that i did have some customers who were uk based and traded in Holland under a .eu domain. That was their only domain and so they will undoubtedly be affected
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    notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    And, if these problems don't occur, what will you complain about then?
    Catastropharians always find something new.
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    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    One little snippet - there are 317,000 ".eu" domains registered to British companies. After Brexit none of these companies will be allowed to keep their .eu domains.

    The costs of updating websites and marketing materials are not zero. Also the time spent re-working stuff.

    All unnecessary cost and wasted time.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can register any kind of domain.

    No, you have to be domiciled in an EU member state. There are similar rules for many other TLDs.

    Does that mean we can bar EU companies from registering .co.uk domains? Seems like a crazy system...

    The rules are established when the TLD is signed off. Different TLDs have different rules. I am not sure why you'd want a .co,uk TLD if you do not do business in the UK or are not a UK-based company. There might even be an argument that using one if you have no UK link is actually deceptive.

    It's also the case that it costs very little to register and maintain a TLD, so it would be very unusual for a UK business to have a .eu TLD and not a .co.uk one if they are domiciled here, so in practical terms the loss of the .eu moniker is not going to be that disruptive for many businesses.

    The waste of time and money comes in redoing existing materials, literature, businesses cards etc.

    I doubt it will be a big issue for many, to be honest.

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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Sean_F said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    That's just projection. Lot's of people support Brexit, and support the Conservatives accordingly,
    And when the supermarket doesn't have x,y,z because of Brexit the Conservatives will collect all the blame.

    The only reason it isn't obvious now is because Labour is so bad....
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    Off topic: is this the most English headline of the year? https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46658823
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    edited December 2018
    Message for Mike/Robert/TSE.

    I have sent the Christmas Crossword to Mike's email address. It's a (Christmas) Cracker!

    Please can you confirm this has been received and that the grid is in a format that is able to be published. Thanks.

    St John
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Looking forward to it, St John. I've sent them a vanilla message them to make sure they don't miss your message here.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    We do business in the UK, and Ireland, Belgium, Spain and Germany.

    A .eu domain allowed the staff to have a .eu email address whichever office they work out of.

    Until Brexit.
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    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    That's just projection. Lot's of people support Brexit, and support the Conservatives accordingly,
    And when the supermarket doesn't have x,y,z because of Brexit the Conservatives will collect all the blame.

    The only reason it isn't obvious now is because Labour is so bad....
    There are a couple of generations of UK citizens who have grown up in a world of almost endless choice, and ready supply of goods, food and services. You have to be at least, what 50-odd, to even remember the three day week or 70s power cuts etc, never mind war rationing.

    Given the state people get into when say KFC can't deliver, or there is a rail strike, then there will be almighty hell if any of the No Deal warnings turn out to be true.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    I should add that i did have some customers who were uk based and traded in Holland under a .eu domain. That was their only domain and so they will undoubtedly be affected

    Can they not do what Robert suggested, open an Estonian subsidiary for peanuts and keep the website registered under that subsidiary?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    notme2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    And, if these problems don't occur, what will you complain about then?
    Catastropharians always find something new.
    Catastropharians should take it easy, man. Hit the ganja...might be your last spliff inna babylon....
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    From the frontline of this insanity:

    https://twitter.com/batanball/status/1076230038251622400

    The Tories are going to reap a whirlwind for doing this to Britain.

    The Tories did not do this, the public voted for Brexit and both Tories and Labour are officially in favour of Brexit.

    The Tories being in government means they will deservedly take more blame for any negative outcomes, but this idea the Tories have 'done this' to Britain is one of those absolutely ludicrous things that just keeps popping up. Even pointing to the fact they did indeed authorise the referendum does not help that, since it still required the public to approve it, and then the vast majority of MPs, Labour and Tory, to actually enact the result.
    When we are in a massive recession and numerous supply problems, lacking fresh food, transport issues etc etc the public will blame the Tories and they will pay dearly for the mess. It is the Tory Brexit. They own it, lock, stock and broken barrel.

    It wont count one jot to bleat to voters 'oh but you voted for it in a referendum' or 'Labour put it in their manifesto too'.
    And, if these problems don't occur, what will you complain about then?
    The lack of problems obviously. :lol:
This discussion has been closed.