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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bernie Sanders reported to be struggling to hang on to his WH2

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited December 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bernie Sanders reported to be struggling to hang on to his WH2016 backers as he ponders WH2020

Next year 2019 one of the big US events that will dominate political betting will be the fight for the WH2020 Democratic party nomination. The early polling here is really not that useful because it is mostly about name recognition and one of the big names is Bernie Sanders, the socialist from Vermont.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,207
    first!!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,207
    2nd .......
  • Bernie looking like the full gammon in the header.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 40,874
    While I'm not going to pretend I saw Sanders' good showing last time coming, I could see why he would have appeal. But whether or not one buys into the O'Rourke hype, or that of others, it did seem tough to replicate. Hilary is not the shoe-in favourite keeping other hopefuls out of the race, and the man is 77 and looks it and more.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 1,574
    I don't like to say this, it feels shallow and unkind, but Bernie is surely too old to run.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 10,621
    The Bern is down to a mild simmer...
  • kinabalu said:

    I don't like to say this, it feels shallow and unkind, but Bernie is surely too old to run.

    He’s only two years older than Cable!
  • kinabalu said:

    I don't like to say this, it feels shallow and unkind, but Bernie is surely too old to run.

    He’s only two years older than Cable!
    You think Cable is young enough to run?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 40,874
    edited December 2018

    kinabalu said:

    I don't like to say this, it feels shallow and unkind, but Bernie is surely too old to run.

    He’s only two years older than Cable!
    And if Cable were running for president the odds would be against him due to age as well. Not that it is impossible, Trump and Hillary were both old for first time presidents and peoples' health can be damn good nowadays, but given the nature of the job it would take a rare candidate indeed to be up for it at that age.

    Of course, the PM of Malaysia is 93.
  • kinabalu said:

    I don't like to say this, it feels shallow and unkind, but Bernie is surely too old to run.

    He’s only two years older than Cable!
    You think Cable is young enough to run?
    I am joking.
    Sanders’s moment was two years ago. He needs to anoint a successor.
  • Bernie is sitting as an Independent isn't he? Would the Democrats vote for him?
  • Bernie is sitting as an Independent isn't he? Would the Democrats vote for him?

    Wasn't he in the last primary season?
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,372

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Just imagine if the EU hadn't decided to play chicken.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 18,579
    edited December 2018

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 51,003
    edited December 2018
    Yet almost all US Democratic primary polls show Sanders second only to Biden and if he wins New Hampshire as he did last time and adds Iowa which he lost by less than 1% he will likely be nominee due to momentum.

    A recent general election poll also showed Sanders doing better against Trump than O'Rourke but Biden doing best of all
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?

    Settled status does not confer the same rights as EU citizenship does currently.
  • Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?

    Settled status does not confer the same rights as EU citizenship does currently.
    No one is taking away their EU citizenship.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 3,356

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    I was registered here and my children are registered here too. My marriage was also registered. https://www.gov.uk/browse/births-deaths-marriages

    Windrush are British citizens so that's entirely different. Though it may have avoided future problems had the Windrush Generation registered at the time.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
  • On topic, all the rain falls down amen on the works of last year’s man.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 40,874

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?

    Settled status does not confer the same rights as EU citizenship does currently.
    It's clearly not something they should be unconcerned about. But it is not Herodian. That sort of talk just undermines genuine criticisms, because it makes people look absurd.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    You have a touching faith in the competence of the Home Office, a faith that has no foundation in its track record.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045
    edited December 2018

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,058
    edited December 2018

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    My mum, who's an Indian national with Indefinite Leave to Remain, still had to fill in a Landing Card when we arrived back at Heathrow from Rome last week. I was going to ask the Border Force bloke why it was necessary, but he was pleasant enough about it so I didn't bother.

    EDIT she didn't have to fill in any card arriving at Rome the weekend before.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 50,139
    Too old. Time for Biden
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    I already have yellow stars to sew on my jacket.... :D
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    You have a touching faith in the competence of the Home Office, a faith that has no foundation in its track record.
    Its precisely because I lack faith in our bureaucracy that I think getting things sorted before it becomes necessary is probably a good idea.

    Its quite remarkable that we have records of births, deaths and marriages through which we can trace the ancestry of someone whose family is from here back to the first millennium - but we can't figure out when someone arrived in this country.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    Yes. Indeed we should adopt the Norwegian system and say that if anyone not born here wants to settle permanently in the UK they have to take 300 hours of compulsory lessons on English language and culture.

    As an aside I have been registered to live and work in more than a dozen countries around the world during my career and certainly don't consider it a burden.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    He thinks of the Irish as errant subjects of the British Crown who will one day recognise their historic mistake in leaving the U.K. and return to the fold.

    Until that happy day we will continue to tolerate their presence here, like foolish children.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,065

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    He thinks of the Irish as errant subjects of the British Crown who will one day recognise their historic mistake in leaving the U.K. and return to the fold.

    Until that happy day we will continue to tolerate their presence here, like foolish children.
    You don’t think it’s more to do with the situation in NI?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    Pulpstar said:

    Too old. Time for Biden

    Why stop there? Carter's eligible and he's a proven winner.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,684
    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 499
    edited December 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Too old. Time for Biden

    Why stop there? Carter's eligible and he's a proven winner.
    Carter has actually grown a lot in stature since the 1970s, and were his health and age not much more prohibitive than Sanders', this might not actually be such a bad idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    edited December 2018
    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
  • There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,459

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    I live in Spain and had to register for residence. Everyone fully expects we will need to register again post Brexit. It's a pain and I did not vote for it but it is pretty normal to have to do this when you move to another country.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    He thinks of the Irish as errant subjects of the British Crown who will one day recognise their historic mistake in leaving the U.K. and return to the fold.

    Until that happy day we will continue to tolerate their presence here, like foolish children.
    There does seem to be a particular problem with imperialistic attitudes being reimported from the farther reaches of the former empire. From Rupert Murdoch to Philip Thompson.
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,459

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    It would make a lot of sense although there is a historical precedent for treating them differently.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    Did you feel you were being put in a hostile environment when you had to register to stay more than 3 months in Hungary?
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
  • ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,459

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    I already have yellow stars to sew on my jacket.... :D
    A rather unnecessarily unpleasant comment. Xmas pud clearly didn't agree with you.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    He thinks of the Irish as errant subjects of the British Crown who will one day recognise their historic mistake in leaving the U.K. and return to the fold.

    Until that happy day we will continue to tolerate their presence here, like foolish children.
    Not at all. I view them akin to cousins. Like I do with Canada, Australia and New Zealand too.

    I don't want let alone expect them to return to the fold any more than I want to live with my cousins. They're still family though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
    Is Australia willing to offer reciprocal free movement to the UK?
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,459

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    I think it is a good thing generally although the majority of Brits do not agree and I both understand why and think it is right to respect their democratic choice.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
    Is Australia willing to offer reciprocal free movement to the UK?
    Ask them. Probably not, in which case it won't happen. If they were willing to though, I'd like that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,238

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    My wife has been informed that the status just needs to be applied for and it is given automatically, at the moment EU citizens live "off the books" with the EU passports, after the transition period those with non-UK passports will need to register or they just fall our of the system.

    Remainers are scaremongering, as always.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 25,847

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    The port started flowing early today.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,684
    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?
    Less crazy perhaps than the Republicans (en masse), but in that instance lacking imagination.
    In so far as one can disentangle them is honesty or sanity more important?

    Considering Trump, I am beginning to think that his success lies with his technique of delivering bull shit with the same apparent authority as that which many/most people seem to regard the printed word. (I think that schools should add skepticism to the three Rs. For instance kids might well benefit from a weekly exercise criticizing a given newspaper article. Such an exercise would combine literacy, numeracy, and skepticism.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,045

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
    Is Australia willing to offer reciprocal free movement to the UK?
    Ask them. Probably not, in which case it won't happen. If they were willing to though, I'd like that.
    Their lack of willingness seems a very valid argument for it not happening.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2018
    MaxPB said:

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    My wife has been informed that the status just needs to be applied for and it is given automatically, at the moment EU citizens live "off the books" with the EU passports, after the transition period those with non-UK passports will need to register or they just fall our of the system.

    Remainers are scaremongering, as always.
    My wife applied for permanent residence in the UK once it became clear what was going on. Means it will be free to apply to convert to settled status. But we're not going to straight away. We expect a legal challenge that those with permanent residence can't have it taken away as the Gvt is planning. Will wait to see the outcome of that before deciding whether to apply for settled status.

    Whatever your views on the settled status scheme, I can see it stuck in a heap of litigation before long. And when the deadline expires, are we back in a Windrush scenario for those who haven't applied? Let's see if the Government has the stomach to begin the deportations to EU countries.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    Toms said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?
    Less crazy perhaps than the Republicans (en masse), but in that instance lacking imagination.
    In so far as one can disentangle them is honesty or sanity more important?

    Considering Trump, almost any given populist I am beginning to think that his success lies with his technique of delivering bull shit with the same apparent authority as that which many/most people seem to regard the printed word. (I think that schools should add skepticism to the three Rs. For instance kids might well benefit from a weekly exercise criticizing a given newspaper article. Such an exercise would combine literacy, numeracy, and skepticism.)
    Minor correction...

    Just because the Democrats are less crazy than the Republicans doesn't mean they're not crazy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,065

    This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
    Is Australia willing to offer reciprocal free movement to the UK?
    Ask them. Probably not, in which case it won't happen. If they were willing to though, I'd like that.
    Their lack of willingness seems a very valid argument for it not happening.
    They’ve been asked?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,684
    edited December 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?
    Less crazy perhaps than the Republicans (en masse), but in that instance lacking imagination.
    In so far as one can disentangle them is honesty or sanity more important?

    Considering Trump, almost any given populist I am beginning to think that his success lies with his technique of delivering bull shit with the same apparent authority as that which many/most people seem to regard the printed word. (I think that schools should add skepticism to the three Rs. For instance kids might well benefit from a weekly exercise criticizing a given newspaper article. Such an exercise would combine literacy, numeracy, and skepticism.)
    Minor correction...

    Just because the Democrats are less crazy than the Republicans doesn't mean they're not crazy.
    A minor quibble: I hate the word "populist" in the political context.
    Edit: the word hysteria might find a relevance.
  • There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,287
    On topic let's just hope the Democrats are as desperate to win as the likes of Trump and Leave. This is no time for a beauty parade or purity battle or a feelgood candidate - it's about a winner, nothing else.

    Who's the winner who can knock Trump out? I reckon that however harsh there is a glass ceiling for a female candidate, and someone like Sherrod Brown may be able to reach the parts that others simply can't.
  • This seems to be quite unpopular, everyone from David Lammy to Fraser Nelson is unhappy about it.



    Of course, the Brexiters said it would never happen:

    Their status hasn't changed, its just being formalised.

    Registering your pre-existing status so that it continues, is hardly equivalent to the slaughter of children (King Herod) now is it?
    And how would you feel if you had to register? I'd be panicking before you could say 'Windrush Generation'.
    Quite. EU citizens are going to be transferred to the hostile environment.
    If they're registered they'll avoid the hostile environment.

    New migrants and unregistered ones should face the same environment as anyone else. If its good enough for Jamaicans it should be good enough for Germans. If its not good enough for Germans, it shouldn't be good enough for Jamaicans.
    Do you think it should apply to Irish citizens too?
    If we can reach a mutually-satisfactory agreement with Ireland to continue mutually-respecting each others nations and rights as something that predates the EU then no. Irish citizenship ought to be enough.

    OTOH if Varadkar continues to be a jackass? Yes.
    So you think reciprocal free movement is fine in principle?
    Yes with countries that we share culture, history and similar economics with, for as long as it remains popular in both nations.

    Personally I'd have it with Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    I see no valid arguments in favour of a reciprocal free movement with Romania but not Australia.
    Is Australia willing to offer reciprocal free movement to the UK?
    Ask them. Probably not, in which case it won't happen. If they were willing to though, I'd like that.
    Their lack of willingness seems a very valid argument for it not happening.
    So a lack of willingness here would also seem a very valid argument one presumes?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,287
    edited December 2018

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,238

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think that's true, Mrs Max only needed to be on the council tax bill.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 13,308
    edited December 2018
  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,065
    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    I think that canvas is what another_richard is talking about.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 703
    edited December 2018

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    This is really the root of it all. We have (had?) an aversion to bureaucrats demanding papers. We are on many levels a much freer society. We don’t have the infrastructure or the desire to set it up to manage migration once you are in the UK. It’s what makes us a magnet for illegal and legal migration. Once you are here you are unlikely to be deported.

    The concept of foreign nationals needing to register seems alien to us (apart from the NI process). We are our own worst enemies. Cameron could have come back with his shoddy deal and also announced a whole series of changes that would have quenched the thirst of the migration aspect of the brexit support. Even May could have done it while also pledging to keep us in the EFTA and join the EEA.

    But no. We will now acquire the pretence of control but no meaningful enforcement. My local town will still have 100% big issue sellers as romainians.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,207

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    this afternoon?

    try most days.
  • tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 43,800

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    Yeah, the one from Dan Hannan is a belter...
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 703
    GIN1138 said:
    “Nothing has changed “
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 13,308
    notme2 said:

    GIN1138 said:
    “Nothing has changed “
    Maybe she's planning to do her constituency surgeries from her prison cell? :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
    They sided with Stalin because Hitler attacked him, no other reason. Indeed, it's very arguable whether Stalin was less crazy than Hitler.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    GIN1138 said:
    That's a surreal column.

    In many ways, the most surreal part is the start:

    Note from the Editor: We have been asked why the PT is publishing Fiona Onasanya’s columns following her conviction at the Old Bailey. The PT offers columns to the two sitting MPs covering Peterborough if they choose to submit one. While she is still the MP - and therefore the elected representative - we believe it would be wrong to deny our readers the chance to read what she has submitted. To censor the column would, in my view, be wrong, and in my experience our readers are quite capable of making their own minds up about the columns submitted by local politicians. The column will of course remain subject to our normal legal and Editor’s Code of Conduct boundaries.
  • Scott_P said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    Yeah, the one from David Lammy is a belter...
    Corrected it for you :innocent:
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
    They sided with Stalin because Hitler attacked him, no other reason. Indeed, it's very arguable whether Stalin was less crazy than Hitler.
    After Stalingrad, Stalin increasingly delegated military strategy to Zhukov, Chuikov et al. On the flip side, Hitler took an increasingly unhealthy control of Wehrmacht strategy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 50,139

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    Someone eventually comes round your house lol
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
    They sided with Stalin because Hitler attacked him, no other reason. Indeed, it's very arguable whether Stalin was less crazy than Hitler.
    After Stalingrad, Stalin increasingly delegated military strategy to Zhukov, Chuikov et al. On the flip side, Hitler took an increasingly unhealthy control of Wehrmacht strategy.
    Ye-es, but is forcing members of the Politburo to dance hornoipes under threat of being shot if they refuse a sign of good mental balance? Or of claiming all the Jews are trying to kill you? Or of having young doctors kidnapped off the street so they can treat a minor toe infection?

    On the whole I would argue not.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,238

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
  • MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
    Sure, but its an example of how much form-filling people do in this country.

    And puts the 'OMG, someone might have to fill in another form because of Brexit' into perspective.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
    They sided with Stalin because Hitler attacked him, no other reason. Indeed, it's very arguable whether Stalin was less crazy than Hitler.
    After Stalingrad, Stalin increasingly delegated military strategy to Zhukov, Chuikov et al. On the flip side, Hitler took an increasingly unhealthy control of Wehrmacht strategy.
    Ye-es, but is forcing members of the Politburo to dance hornoipes under threat of being shot if they refuse a sign of good mental balance? Or of claiming all the Jews are trying to kill you? Or of having young doctors kidnapped off the street so they can treat a minor toe infection?

    On the whole I would argue not.
    Hang on a moment - didn't Hitler have his own "Jewish" issue?
  • MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
    Sure, but its an example of how much form-filling people do in this country.

    And puts the 'OMG, someone might have to fill in another form because of Brexit' into perspective.
    The chances of the Home Office not screwing up in a substantial number of cases involving EU citizens must be close to zero.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    edited December 2018

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    The last two years have taught some of us a lesson---the importance of sanity.
    Bernie's pretty old, but sane.
    Beto's young, and also appears to be sane.
    Could the Democrats combine the two in one ticket?

    The Democrats thought that Hilary Clinton was the right candidate in 2016.

    May I ask where the evidence is that THEY are sane?

    Edit - this blogpost from ten years ago has aged really quite remarkably well:

    http://paullinford.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-elections.html
    They are NOT Trump?
    Neither are Kim Jong Un and Nicholas Maduro. Your point being?
    Didn't have you down as a Trumper!
    Only when I play whist :smile:

    More seriously, just because Trump has given new meaning to the word 'batshit crazy' doesn't automatically mean his opponents are good guys and well-balanced.
    It's a question of degrees. Just like Stalin was marginally less crazy than Hitler. The Western Allies sided with Stalin. Um, apart from Polish Government in Exile, of course.
    They sided with Stalin because Hitler attacked him, no other reason. Indeed, it's very arguable whether Stalin was less crazy than Hitler.
    After Stalingrad, Stalin increasingly delegated military strategy to Zhukov, Chuikov et al. On the flip side, Hitler took an increasingly unhealthy control of Wehrmacht strategy.
    Ye-es, but is forcing members of the Politburo to dance hornoipes under threat of being shot if they refuse a sign of good mental balance? Or of claiming all the Jews are trying to kill you? Or of having young doctors kidnapped off the street so they can treat a minor toe infection?

    On the whole I would argue not.
    Hang on a moment - didn't Hitler have his own "Jewish" issue?
    Yes (assuming you're referring to the Holocaust and not to theories his grandfather was Jewish) but again we're wandering in circles. Hitler was crazy. So was Stalin. The question is whether one was less crazy than the other. I would argue that actually they were both off the wall crazy. It's just that it manifested itself in slightly different ways.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,238

    MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
    Sure, but its an example of how much form-filling people do in this country.

    And puts the 'OMG, someone might have to fill in another form because of Brexit' into perspective.
    The chances of the Home Office not screwing up in a substantial number of cases involving EU citizens must be close to zero.
    That's definitely the worry.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,238
    In other news my mother in law was over this Xmas, she's finally left. One of my friends who met her asked if I voted leave to ensure she wasn't able to come to the UK permanently.
  • MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
    Sure, but its an example of how much form-filling people do in this country.

    And puts the 'OMG, someone might have to fill in another form because of Brexit' into perspective.
    The chances of the Home Office not screwing up in a substantial number of cases involving EU citizens must be close to zero.
    Which means that the Home Office needs reforming not that the registration requirement is wrong.
  • MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.

    In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.

    Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.

    I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
    I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
    It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:

    ' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.

    It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/household-enquiry-form/
    That's true for everyone, though.
    Sure, but its an example of how much form-filling people do in this country.

    And puts the 'OMG, someone might have to fill in another form because of Brexit' into perspective.
    The chances of the Home Office not screwing up in a substantial number of cases involving EU citizens must be close to zero.
    Which means that the Home Office needs reforming not that the registration requirement is wrong.
    Generally it’s a good idea to build your registration requirements on existing capabilities.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 16,641
    MaxPB said:

    In other news my mother in law was over this Xmas, she's finally left. One of my friends who met her asked if I voted leave to ensure she wasn't able to come to the UK permanently.

    What's the penalty for bigamy?

    Two mothers in law.

    What do you find behind very successful man?

    An astonished mother in law.

    Why did the man not want his mother in law buried in Jerusalem?

    They had a resurrection there and he was taking no chances.

    Good night.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:

    In which a respected Times columnist finally succumbs to the terminal stage of Brexit Dementia.



    Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.

    He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
  • The chances of the Home Office not screwing up in a substantial number of cases involving EU citizens must be close to zero.

    In the future are the Home Office more or less likely to screw up if people aren't properly registered now?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,065

    SeanT said:

    In which a respected Times columnist finally succumbs to the terminal stage of Brexit Dementia.



    Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.

    He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
    Yes, MPs can vote for the withdrawal agreement.
  • GIN1138 said:
    Is she likely to face a 12 month jail term?

    I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
  • SeanT said:

    In which a respected Times columnist finally succumbs to the terminal stage of Brexit Dementia.



    Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.

    Parris boasted of referring to Thatcher as Hilda as he thought Margaret was too upmarket a name for her.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Scott_P said:

    There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.

    Yeah, the one from Dan Hannan is a belter...
    Fraser Nelson's is not bad either...
  • GIN1138 said:
    Is she likely to face a 12 month jail term?

    I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
    Huhne didn’t of that’s a guide, but he resigned before he knew how long he’d have to serve.
This discussion has been closed.