Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds just 28% of GE2017 LAB voters support the pa

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited January 2 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds just 28% of GE2017 LAB voters support the party’s stance on Brexit

New polling data just made available on the YouGov website shows the scale of the gamble LAB is taking with the party’s stance on Brexit. To the question “Do you support or oppose the stance that the Labour party have taken towards Brexit?” GE2017 LAB voters split by 28% to 25% on whether they supported or opposed.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    1st unlike Corbyn
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    2nd - more like Corbyn :)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    It is like waiting for a bus... will three come along all at once?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061
    3rd - like the Tories. 😱
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    Cyclefree said:

    3rd - like the Tories. 😱

    @cyclefree - what? You mean "cannot count" :D :dizzy:
    HNY BTW
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,473
    Tory voters against a new GE and a 2nd referendum is the crucial polling morsel from this.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,177
    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    I thought women were meant to be martyrs to their footwear?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    3rd - like the Tories. 😱

    @cyclefree - what? You mean "cannot count" :D :dizzy:
    HNY BTW
    I was typing while you were naughtily posting.

    HNY to you too!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 6,595
    edited January 2
    I feel sure the Jezziah will be along shortly to tell us not to trust opinion polls that show Corbyn's ratings as terrible/that Corbyn is the Messiah.../and that the ratings are not as bad as we think
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Is it really? Last year I had trouble buying something that was NOT suede. I wound up with suede ankle books and a pair of 3" heels in suede. I wanted a nice soft leather for the boots, but oh no... anything you like as long as it is suede.

    Any reason for blue ones? Or are you hankering back to earlier eras?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 6,595
    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Russell and Bromley acc to my wife, but you need deep pockets that I certainly do not have
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    I thought women were meant to be martyrs to their footwear?
    Only the silly ones.

    I ADORE shoes. I often decide what shoes I am going to wear first and choose my outfit around the shoes. I wearing a very lovely pair today.

    But comfort is most important.

    Anyway the search continues. Thank God for online shopping.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    3rd - like the Tories. 😱

    @cyclefree - what? You mean "cannot count" :D :dizzy:
    HNY BTW
    I was typing while you were naughtily posting.

    HNY to you too!
    :+1:

    Did you spend New Year in your Northern Redoubt or Tory Central down south?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,434
    edited January 2
    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,277
    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    You could become hopping mad
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Russell and Bromley acc to my wife, but you need deep pockets that I certainly do not have
    Nah - too dear for what they are.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    I thought women were meant to be martyrs to their footwear?
    Only the silly ones.

    I ADORE shoes. I often decide what shoes I am going to wear first and choose my outfit around the shoes. I wearing a very lovely pair today.

    But comfort is most important.

    Anyway the search continues. Thank God for online shopping.
    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Indeed. Proof (if it was required) that the govt is populated with seemingly deranged incompetents.

    At least the rest of the world is having a good laugh....
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,144

    I feel sure the Jezziah will be along shortly to tell us not to trust opinion polls that show Corbyn's ratings as terrible/that Corbyn is the Messiah.../and that the ratings are not as bad as we think

    I'd insult you back but I haven't paid quite enough attention to your views to parody them...

    You out of touch/metropolitan/xenophobe Centrist/right/hard right who thinks Blair/D. Miliband/May/Boris/Farage/Cable/? is good are stupid/some other variant on out of touch/ some variant on xenophobe.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Is it really? Last year I had trouble buying something that was NOT suede. I wound up with suede ankle books and a pair of 3" heels in suede. I wanted a nice soft leather for the boots, but oh no... anything you like as long as it is suede.

    Any reason for blue ones? Or are you hankering back to earlier eras?
    To go with some new and old clothes. Also deep blue is stylish. And not as dull as black. I have some fantastic turquoise shoes for spring but I need (OK - want) deep blue ones.

    The number and variety of my shoe collection would probably appal the men on here.

    But you can never have too many shoes or handbags. ☺
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,434

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    Or he just isn't very smart.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 7,440

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Russell and Bromley acc to my wife, but you need deep pockets that I certainly do not have
    Nah - too dear for what they are.
    Have you tried Hobbs Sophia? They are the only heeled shoes I can wear.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    Why not both?

    It's amazing nobody has tried to tell him that simply remaining in a customs union with the EU won't be enough to obviate a backstop; we also need to remain in the single market to avoid an NI/RoI regulatory border.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Is it really? Last year I had trouble buying something that was NOT suede. I wound up with suede ankle books and a pair of 3" heels in suede. I wanted a nice soft leather for the boots, but oh no... anything you like as long as it is suede.

    Any reason for blue ones? Or are you hankering back to earlier eras?
    To go with some new and old clothes. Also deep blue is stylish. And not as dull as black. I have some fantastic turquoise shoes for spring but I need (OK - want) deep blue ones.
    Ooo... deep blue? That could look very nice. I tend to look better in stronger colours whereas my best friend, who is blonde, can wear pastel shades that look lovely but turn me into a dreadful frump if I try them.
    Cyclefree said:

    The number and variety of my shoe collection would probably appal the men on here.

    But you can never have too many shoes or handbags. ☺

    What do you expect? For them, the same shoes / wallet / suit can last for years, probably decades....

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    3rd - like the Tories. 😱

    @cyclefree - what? You mean "cannot count" :D :dizzy:
    HNY BTW
    I was typing while you were naughtily posting.

    HNY to you too!
    :+1:

    Did you spend New Year in your Northern Redoubt or Tory Central down south?
    London.

    We are moving out of the Lakes house this month to allow the builders in .....

    God and builders willing we should be having next Xmas in our Grand Designs-style house. I am project managing from a nearby cottage while earning the money to pay for it all and trying to limit the arguments with my other half to, ooh, one a week. 😕 😛
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Russell and Bromley acc to my wife, but you need deep pockets that I certainly do not have
    Nah - too dear for what they are.
    Have you tried Hobbs Sophia? They are the only heeled shoes I can wear.
    I have a court shoe very similar to their Erika, but not their price :)

    Sadly they were from BHS so no more of them.... :( and they are so comfy and looks good too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,074

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.
    I don't think that really so. Existing rules do allow for significant state support (via regional industrial policy for example) and a customs union, and indeed WTO rules also work against such subsidy.

    More likely Jezza is either uninterested in the EU, or thick, or both.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,144

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    Why not both?

    It's amazing nobody has tried to tell him that simply remaining in a customs union with the EU won't be enough to obviate a backstop; we also need to remain in the single market to avoid an NI/RoI regulatory border.
    My hunch is BINO, we'll claim Brexit with some fudge, small opt outs and warm words.

    Although at this stage I don't see Labour getting to have a go at that anyway.

    Labour's best bet electorally now is avoiding giving May her line about just wanting to stop Brexit, let her deal be killed first.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,059
    edited January 2


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 20,219

    I feel sure the Jezziah will be along shortly to tell us not to trust opinion polls that show Corbyn's ratings as terrible/that Corbyn is the Messiah.../and that the ratings are not as bad as we think

    I'd insult you back but I haven't paid quite enough attention to your views to parody them...

    You out of touch/metropolitan/xenophobe Centrist/right/hard right who thinks Blair/D. Miliband/May/Boris/Farage/Cable/? is good are stupid/some other variant on out of touch/ some variant on xenophobe.
    LOL.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Is it really? Last year I had trouble buying something that was NOT suede. I wound up with suede ankle books and a pair of 3" heels in suede. I wanted a nice soft leather for the boots, but oh no... anything you like as long as it is suede.

    Any reason for blue ones? Or are you hankering back to earlier eras?
    To go with some new and old clothes. Also deep blue is stylish. And not as dull as black. I have some fantastic turquoise shoes for spring but I need (OK - want) deep blue ones.
    Ooo... deep blue? That could look very nice. I tend to look better in stronger colours whereas my best friend, who is blonde, can wear pastel shades that look lovely but turn me into a dreadful frump if I try them.
    Cyclefree said:

    The number and variety of my shoe collection would probably appal the men on here.

    But you can never have too many shoes or handbags. ☺

    What do you expect? For them, the same shoes / wallet / suit can last for years, probably decades....

    I too like and wear strong colours. I love changing my style. Some of my clothes are Westwood-style outrageous.

    None of this invisible older woman nonsense for me.

    A large dressing room is already laid out in the Northern eyrie.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    You could become hopping mad
    😁
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,827
    I think the Brexiteers have may have misapprehended the Nelsonian approach of seeing no ships as actually meaning there are no ships.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,074
    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 20,219


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.

    Heels etc - absolutely worn by women, for women.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,081
    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061
    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,798
    Foxy said:

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.
    I don't think that really so. Existing rules do allow for significant state support (via regional industrial policy for example) and a customs union, and indeed WTO rules also work against such subsidy.

    More likely Jezza is either uninterested in the EU, or thick, or both.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,074


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.

    Heels etc - absolutely worn by women, for women.
    Though it is worth noting that women are shoe obsessives when dressing to impress, as indeed are Italians.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 2,727
    Foxy said:

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.
    I don't think that really so. Existing rules do allow for significant state support (via regional industrial policy for example) and a customs union, and indeed WTO rules also work against such subsidy.

    More likely Jezza is either uninterested in the EU, or thick, or both.
    Both.

    Brexiteers who have spent their lives obsessing about the EU tend to see Corbyn as one of them on this topic a la Kate Hoey but that is not really true IMO, he does not see it as a talismanic issue and does not care much about it either way. In the end he will have to listen to the views of his party - as he did at the referendum and has also done on other issues where he is in a clear minority such as Trident.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,827
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
    I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,059
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
    No, not in the least. I genuinely find costmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    If I was virtue signalling I'd be piously not-my-place-to-tell-women-what-to-wear.

    I'm often slighlty amused at the feminist position on e.g. Daily Mail articles written about what successful sportswomen x wears to an awards ceremony, fuming that the same fuss wouldn't be made about a man. I sympathise - but there is no wat that articles of that struos are written for anything other than a female audience. No man cares what dress Rebecca Adlington wears to SPOTY, or os even sure what anyone female should be wearing. Men generally have no more than four gradations of sartorial formality (pyjamas; not at work; at work; dinner jacket) and find the complex sartorial rules that women have made for themsleves utterly baffling.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Halllooooooooo....... is there anybody here?

    Yes. Me.

    Never mind Corbyn. Why is it so bloody difficult to find stylish comfortable blue suede shoes?
    Is it really? Last year I had trouble buying something that was NOT suede. I wound up with suede ankle books and a pair of 3" heels in suede. I wanted a nice soft leather for the boots, but oh no... anything you like as long as it is suede.

    Any reason for blue ones? Or are you hankering back to earlier eras?
    To go with some new and old clothes. Also deep blue is stylish. And not as dull as black. I have some fantastic turquoise shoes for spring but I need (OK - want) deep blue ones.
    Ooo... deep blue? That could look very nice. I tend to look better in stronger colours whereas my best friend, who is blonde, can wear pastel shades that look lovely but turn me into a dreadful frump if I try them.
    Cyclefree said:

    The number and variety of my shoe collection would probably appal the men on here.

    But you can never have too many shoes or handbags. ☺

    What do you expect? For them, the same shoes / wallet / suit can last for years, probably decades....

    I too like and wear strong colours. I love changing my style. Some of my clothes are Westwood-style outrageous.

    None of this invisible older woman nonsense for me.

    A large dressing room is already laid out in the Northern eyrie.
    Excellent. My dressing room has shrunk somewhat, but I am definitely not invisible :D :D :D
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
    I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.
    I feel for you. Shoes are a joy and men just seem to have either brown or black canoes. :(
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 401
    Lol at Corbyn! Wonderful to kick 2019 off with some good news for once :)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Foxy said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.

    Heels etc - absolutely worn by women, for women.
    Though it is worth noting that women are shoe obsessives when dressing to impress, as indeed are Italians.
    If we turn up looking "frowsy" it is the men who complain. Trust me on this...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Foxy said:

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?
    He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.
    I don't think that really so. Existing rules do allow for significant state support (via regional industrial policy for example) and a customs union, and indeed WTO rules also work against such subsidy.

    More likely Jezza is either uninterested in the EU, or thick, or both.
    Both.

    Brexiteers who have spent their lives obsessing about the EU tend to see Corbyn as one of them on this topic a la Kate Hoey but that is not really true IMO, he does not see it as a talismanic issue and does not care much about it either way. In the end he will have to listen to the views of his party - as he did at the referendum and has also done on other issues where he is in a clear minority such as Trident.
    Wishful thinking. He is doing everything he can to avoid going for Remain or a 2nd referendum. And is being much more successful than party members are in getting him to go along with their views.

    Didn't he recently say at some overseas meeting of fellow socialists that he thought of the EU as a capitalists' club?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,059
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    I do realise that, yes, and it doesn't work - it still looks like make-up. It's preference to the 'clown' setting that some women choose (happily that faded waway after the early 80s) but it looks less good that no make-up at all. And nude lipsticks still look like they have painted their lips lip-colour - but a lip-colour made by someone who was in a hurry and hasn't quite got it right.

    As I said, I don't know how widely held this view is - this is just my reaction.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,827

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
    I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.
    I feel for you. Shoes are a joy and men just seem to have either brown or black canoes. :(
    Tbf I have a few canoes, but they are beautifully crafted from the finest materials!
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
    I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.
    I love shoes. But I buy them for my own gratification. Shoes are a deeply personal affectation.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,196
    Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,074

    Foxy said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.

    Heels etc - absolutely worn by women, for women.
    Though it is worth noting that women are shoe obsessives when dressing to impress, as indeed are Italians.
    If we turn up looking "frowsy" it is the men who complain. Trust me on this...
    There are social aspects to makeup and context:

    https://www.spring.org.uk/2016/06/make-affects-perceptions.php

    Though I do notice an inverse social class gradient with amount of makeup, amongst patients.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    I do realise that, yes, and it doesn't work - it still looks like make-up. It's preference to the 'clown' setting that some women choose (happily that faded waway after the early 80s) but it looks less good that no make-up at all. And nude lipsticks still look like they have painted their lips lip-colour - but a lip-colour made by someone who was in a hurry and hasn't quite got it right.

    As I said, I don't know how widely held this view is - this is just my reaction.
    Fair enough. In my experience you are unusual.

    There are - at least once you are past your 30's - very few women whose faces look that good completely au naturel, unless they are lucky to have very good skin.

    The best thing for any face, though, is a smile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,644
    edited January 2

    Its ok Jezza's on the case,

    “What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back

    It's all so simple!

    No one has, so far, sworn off unicorns for the New Year apparently.

    I predict an epic Corbyn u-turn soon. I don't care how stubborn he is, the members put him there, the members secured him there, and he won't risk losing them when push comes to shove.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,828
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    You don't speak for all women. Mrs J wears make-up very infrequently: I nearly fainted with surprise when she nipped into a Debenhams to ask which lipstick suited her. The lipstick was purchased, and was used once.

    The reason she does not need it, of course, is that she is naturally beautiful. ;)

    Our dressing table is sagging under the weight of hair products: then again, she does have the devil's curly hair ...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,061

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    You don't speak for all women. Mrs J wears make-up very infrequently: I nearly fainted with surprise when she nipped into a Debenhams to ask which lipstick suited her. The lipstick was purchased, and was used once.

    The reason she does not need it, of course, is that she is naturally beautiful. ;)

    Our dressing table is sagging under the weight of hair products: then again, she does have the devil's curly hair ...
    I never said I did speak for all women. I speak only for myself.

    I do think - and I realise it is the Italian in me - that one ought to look presentable when out in public. Some people are absolute eye sores.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,059
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    I do realise that, yes, and it doesn't work - it still looks like make-up. It's preference to the 'clown' setting that some women choose (happily that faded waway after the early 80s) but it looks less good that no make-up at all. And nude lipsticks still look like they have painted their lips lip-colour - but a lip-colour made by someone who was in a hurry and hasn't quite got it right.

    As I said, I don't know how widely held this view is - this is just my reaction.
    Fair enough. In my experience you are unusual.

    There are - at least once you are past your 30's - very few women whose faces look that good completely au naturel, unless they are lucky to have very good skin.

    The best thing for any face, though, is a smile.
    Ms. Cyclefree, I am sure you do yourself down! Though I agree with your final point.
    I am married to a woman in her 40s. I wake up to her face every morning. As a man in my forties, I find it extremely attractive.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Exactly what man ever looks at a woman's shoes
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,798

    Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.

    Labour could be making the same mistake in England that they made in Scotland.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,457
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
    No, not in the least. I genuinely find costmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    If I was virtue signalling I'd be piously not-my-place-to-tell-women-what-to-wear.

    I'm often slighlty amused at the feminist position on e.g. Daily Mail articles written about what successful sportswomen x wears to an awards ceremony, fuming that the same fuss wouldn't be made about a man. I sympathise - but there is no wat that articles of that struos are written for anything other than a female audience. No man cares what dress Rebecca Adlington wears to SPOTY, or os even sure what anyone female should be wearing. Men generally have no more than four gradations of sartorial formality (pyjamas; not at work; at work; dinner jacket) and find the complex sartorial rules that women have made for themsleves utterly baffling.
    +1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".

    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,387
    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,081
    Cookie said:

    No, not in the least. I genuinely find cosmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    Only joshing. Just that it's the sort of thing that women like men to say. Sort of thing that I might come out with when attempting to render myself endearing to a woman.

    Truth is, I love make-up and high heels. It led to the breakdown of my 1st marriage.

    Taxi!
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,144
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    I do realise that, yes, and it doesn't work - it still looks like make-up. It's preference to the 'clown' setting that some women choose (happily that faded waway after the early 80s) but it looks less good that no make-up at all. And nude lipsticks still look like they have painted their lips lip-colour - but a lip-colour made by someone who was in a hurry and hasn't quite got it right.

    As I said, I don't know how widely held this view is - this is just my reaction.
    Fair enough. In my experience you are unusual.

    There are - at least once you are past your 30's - very few women whose faces look that good completely au naturel, unless they are lucky to have very good skin.

    The best thing for any face, though, is a smile.
    Most of my friends who would talk about the natural look would of course refer to people who naturally look stunning. Someone with scarring, spots and terrible skin would probably not be complimented by them on the natural appearance if they went without makeup.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    I do realise that, yes, and it doesn't work - it still looks like make-up. It's preference to the 'clown' setting that some women choose (happily that faded waway after the early 80s) but it looks less good that no make-up at all. And nude lipsticks still look like they have painted their lips lip-colour - but a lip-colour made by someone who was in a hurry and hasn't quite got it right.

    As I said, I don't know how widely held this view is - this is just my reaction.
    You sound like a bundle of laughs
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,828
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.
    You don't speak for all women. Mrs J wears make-up very infrequently: I nearly fainted with surprise when she nipped into a Debenhams to ask which lipstick suited her. The lipstick was purchased, and was used once.

    The reason she does not need it, of course, is that she is naturally beautiful. ;)

    Our dressing table is sagging under the weight of hair products: then again, she does have the devil's curly hair ...
    I never said I did speak for all women. I speak only for myself.

    I do think - and I realise it is the Italian in me - that one ought to look presentable when out in public. Some people are absolute eye sores.
    That's why God invented balaclavas. ;)

    (But you did say: "all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up)
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234



    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.

    Women are continually judged and publicly shamed for their appearance in ways men are not. It's not surprising women try to take control of that process by being in control of the way they feel best about looking.

    Though most of the men I know are just obsessive about their faces, it's just all sublimated into the beard&stache.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 7,728
    And yet, in spite of this supposed Remainer fury towards Labour, this exact same set of polling has the Lib Dems still stuck at the 7% they polled at the last election....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    malcolmg said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Exactly what man ever looks at a woman's shoes
    Some men like that sort of thing. :eyes:
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2
    I am glad that men on PB are so liberated. It must just be chance that it is the made-up woman in 4"heels what a cleavage you can ski down gets so much male attention ;)

    Anyway... i need to get some dinner organised so I can slip into my Louboutins and g-string and wax my eyebrows

    :D :D :D

    Later peeps ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042

    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing

    Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    SeanT said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Er, you're gay.
    Exactly, and I love heels on drag queens. Drag queens know how to do heels justice.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,828

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
    No, not in the least. I genuinely find costmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    If I was virtue signalling I'd be piously not-my-place-to-tell-women-what-to-wear.

    I'm often slighlty amused at the feminist position on e.g. Daily Mail articles written about what successful sportswomen x wears to an awards ceremony, fuming that the same fuss wouldn't be made about a man. I sympathise - but there is no wat that articles of that struos are written for anything other than a female audience. No man cares what dress Rebecca Adlington wears to SPOTY, or os even sure what anyone female should be wearing. Men generally have no more than four gradations of sartorial formality (pyjamas; not at work; at work; dinner jacket) and find the complex sartorial rules that women have made for themsleves utterly baffling.
    +1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".

    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
    AIUI male grooming is becoming a massive industry as well.

    My own attitude to make up on women is that most of it is essentially pointless, and the hours-long rigmarole some go through slapping on make up - and taking it off afterwards - is more some form of religion or mental prop than any desire to look good. Especially when they don't look good afterwards.

    "Snog, marry, avoid" was brilliant for showing gents and ladies going a little (ahem) too far with clothes and make up. Often less is more.

    And don't get me started on fake tans ... ;)

    Then again, I'm a scruffy pleb and proud of it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,827
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    No, not in the least. I genuinely find cosmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    Only joshing. Just that it's the sort of thing that women like men to say. Sort of thing that I might come out with when attempting to render myself endearing to a woman.

    Truth is, I love make-up and high heels. It led to the breakdown of my 1st marriage.

    Taxi!
    Didn't ask permission before borrowing them, eh?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,387
    edited January 2
    Danny565 said:

    And yet, in spite of this supposed Remainer fury towards Labour, this exact same set of polling has the Lib Dems still stuck at the 7% they polled at the last election....

    I believe labour supporters do not believe Corbyn backs brexit to the extent he does and when the votes come on TM deal in a couple of weeks, labour mps will have nowhere to hide.

    It is at this point the balloon will go up and with it very serious problems for labour and a possible boost for the lib dems
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,059

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
    No, not in the least. I genuinely find costmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    If I was virtue signalling I'd be piously not-my-place-to-tell-women-what-to-wear.

    I'm often slighlty amused at the feminist position on e.g. Daily Mail articles written about what successful sportswomen x wears to an awards ceremony, fuming that the same fuss wouldn't be made about a man. I sympathise - but there is no wat that articles of that struos are written for anything other than a female audience. No man cares what dress Rebecca Adlington wears to SPOTY, or os even sure what anyone female should be wearing. Men generally have no more than four gradations of sartorial formality (pyjamas; not at work; at work; dinner jacket) and find the complex sartorial rules that women have made for themsleves utterly baffling.
    +1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".

    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
    Well done to Danish women, but - sigh - I would counter to your Danish fenminists that a) the previous argument about it not, actually being that attractive and b) if there was a way men could dress which would make them more likely women might want to mate with them it would almost certainly be adopted almost universally.

    Anyway, hair - now this is an interesting one and I'm sure you're right: I'm fairly sure that hair is something men do notice about women without realising they're noticing. I think I remember reading something to this affect, and also that hair is a good indicator for fertility, or something to that effect.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042
    SeanT said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Er, you're gay.

    I'm straight. Shoes are absolutely important to me, stilettos on the right occasion can be hugely sexy, but so can Converse and hotpants. I'll stop there.

    The same goes both ways of course. I long ago realised a lot of women judge a guy by his shoes, happily I have been able to afford good ones. £300+
    Do you have large price tags on them so people know they were expensive, anybody that chooses you by your shoes should be avoided like the plague unless you are wearing wellies in town or your shoes are absolute bachles.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 10,911
    malcolmg said:

    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing

    Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.
    Check out the chart on page 8:

    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/rail-finance-statistical-release-2017-18.pdf

    It's those rich commuters who subsidise Scottish railways.

    That said, I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if the government deregulated rail fares. I currently pay £3,350 for a season ticket from Woking to Waterloo. I reckon the optimum price on that fare would be at least £5,000.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    No, not in the least. I genuinely find cosmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    Only joshing. Just that it's the sort of thing that women like men to say. Sort of thing that I might come out with when attempting to render myself endearing to a woman.

    Truth is, I love make-up and high heels. It led to the breakdown of my 1st marriage.

    Taxi!
    Didn't ask permission before borrowing them, eh?
    Either you had tiny feet or she had massive ones.

    Found out recently thanks to the loyal patronage of drag queens, Manolo Blahnik make all his heels to order up to size 15.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 2,883
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-up on deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    Are you virtue signalling?
    No, not in the least. I genuinely find costmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    If I was virtue signalling I'd be piously not-my-place-to-tell-women-what-to-wear.

    I'm often slighlty amused at the feminist position on e.g. Daily Mail articles written about what successful sportswomen x wears to an awards ceremony, fuming that the same fuss wouldn't be made about a man. I sympathise - but there is no wat that articles of that struos are written for anything other than a female audience. No man cares what dress Rebecca Adlington wears to SPOTY, or os even sure what anyone female should be wearing. Men generally have no more than four gradations of sartorial formality (pyjamas; not at work; at work; dinner jacket) and find the complex sartorial rules that women have made for themsleves utterly baffling.
    What a strange comment. It's like saying you don't understand the feminist position on Barbie dolls because it's mainly girls that play with them
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,081
    malcolmg said:

    Exactly what man ever looks at a woman's shoes?

    No comment.

    I know a trap when I see it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042



    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.

    Women are continually judged and publicly shamed for their appearance in ways men are not. It's not surprising women try to take control of that process by being in control of the way they feel best about looking.

    Though most of the men I know are just obsessive about their faces, it's just all sublimated into the beard&stache.
    you are spending too much time mixing with ponces
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 7,728

    Danny565 said:

    And yet, in spite of this supposed Remainer fury towards Labour, this exact same set of polling has the Lib Dems still stuck at the 7% they polled at the last election....

    I believe labour supporters do not believe Corbyn backs brexit to the extent he does and when the votes come on TM deal in a couple of weeks, labour mps will have nowhere to hide.

    It is at this point the balloon will go up and with it very serious problems for labour and a possible boost for the lib dems
    LOL, how many times have you previously predicted the "penny will drop" / "balloon will go up" for all these Labour Remain voters supposedly obsessed with the EU above all else? :D
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042
    SeanT said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.

    On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.

    And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
    Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.
    I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.
    I feel for you. Shoes are a joy and men just seem to have either brown or black canoes. :(
    I love buying shoes. I dislike buying most other clothes unless I already know exactly what I want. Clothes buying is generally a mild chore for me, which can end badly and remorsefully.

    But shoes, however, Mmm. I know all about them, I know where to get the best, I can afford the best. I've been known to drop a grand on Jermyn Street, in one afternoon of shoe-shopping.

    And, uniondivvie, I have had both men and women come up to me, uninvited, and say, "I;m sorry to intrude, but those are lovely shoes." One guy even waxed lyrical about my patina. As they say.

    You should come to London more. We appreciate a good brogue.
    No they just think you are gay
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited January 2
    For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.

    So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,387
    malcolmg said:

    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing

    Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.
    You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day return

    Looks like really good value to me
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,509

    malcolmg said:


    Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.

    I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.
    Exactly what man ever looks at a woman's shoes
    Some men like that sort of thing. :eyes:
    A woman in f*** me heels and cherry red lipstick can inflame the passions in the right circumstances, but I've never had better nor felt better than waking up next to the woman I love(d) looking like a complete mess from the night before, no make up, hair all over the place, and a tatty old t shirt.

    In short, high heels are no substitute for emotional intimacy.

    Can we keep talking about stuff like this? It's much more fun than endless ****ing Brexit.

    I also agree about watches. I complimented a stranger in a bar on his very nice sky dweller and he replied "I bought this to impress girls and all I ever get is compliments from guys!"

    Perhaps Rolex should go after the pink pound...
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    SeanT said:


    And, uniondivvie, I have had both men and women come up to me, uninvited, and say, "I;m sorry to intrude, but those are lovely shoes." One guy even waxed lyrical about my patina. As they say.

    You should come to London more. We appreciate a good brogue.

    Saw a pair of teal brogues in Spitalfields the other day that I swear I would have murdered my own mother for.

    I have never felt such lust for an item of footwear before.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    malcolmg said:



    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.

    Women are continually judged and publicly shamed for their appearance in ways men are not. It's not surprising women try to take control of that process by being in control of the way they feel best about looking.

    Though most of the men I know are just obsessive about their faces, it's just all sublimated into the beard&stache.
    you are spending too much time mixing with ponces
    Homophobia, Malcolm?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 56,070
    The fact 57% of Labour voters back a second EU referendum offers a clear opportunity for the LDs if Corbyn sticks to his stance of opposing one
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042
    tlg86 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing

    Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.
    Check out the chart on page 8:

    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/rail-finance-statistical-release-2017-18.pdf

    It's those rich commuters who subsidise Scottish railways.

    That said, I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if the government deregulated rail fares. I currently pay £3,350 for a season ticket from Woking to Waterloo. I reckon the optimum price on that fare would be at least £5,000.
    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.
    A small amount of public support may be acceptable but in this country they are heavily subsidised and transport is still crap. You go to Europe and it is all integrated, here it is all bits and pieces and almost impossible to get any joined up thinking.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 56,070

    For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.

    So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?

    I can see Labour voters going LD in safe Labour inner city Remain and university town seats where the Tories are little threat. See the Lewisham East by election
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    HYUFD said:

    The fact 57% of Labour voters back a second EU referendum offers a clear opportunity for the LDs if Corbyn sticks to his stance of opposing one

    Do you think he will, though? If/when he loses a VONC in the government, there's really nowhere else for Corbyn to hide.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 2,883

    Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.

    Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.

    Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing

    You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,042

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    No, not in the least. I genuinely find cosmetics unattractive, and lipstick in particular triggers my disgust reflex. I don't know whether I'm alone in this. But I've never heard a man talk in positive terms about a woman's make-up.

    Only joshing. Just that it's the sort of thing that women like men to say. Sort of thing that I might come out with when attempting to render myself endearing to a woman.

    Truth is, I love make-up and high heels. It led to the breakdown of my 1st marriage.

    Taxi!
    Didn't ask permission before borrowing them, eh?
    Either you had tiny feet or she had massive ones.

    Found out recently thanks to the loyal patronage of drag queens, Manolo Blahnik make all his heels to order up to size 15.
    Someone must have looked a right Charlie in those 15's.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,387
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    And yet, in spite of this supposed Remainer fury towards Labour, this exact same set of polling has the Lib Dems still stuck at the 7% they polled at the last election....

    I believe labour supporters do not believe Corbyn backs brexit to the extent he does and when the votes come on TM deal in a couple of weeks, labour mps will have nowhere to hide.

    It is at this point the balloon will go up and with it very serious problems for labour and a possible boost for the lib dems
    LOL, how many times have you previously predicted the "penny will drop" / "balloon will go up" for all these Labour Remain voters supposedly obsessed with the EU above all else? :D
    Not many to be fair but this months votes will expose all the mps positions for everyone to see including on the amendments for a second referendum. No place to hide
This discussion has been closed.