This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
But as I say we have seen exactly the same behaviour from the left for decades and your calls for action have been notably absent. where were your protests over the way Rees-Mogg was abused outside his own home?
I didn't like the way that she was harassed by those idiots yesterday, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see any physical contact. Some numpty in a red cap tried to block her path at the Commons entrance, but he got jostled out of the way by others.
If the Met do decide that a crime was committed just due to the verbal abuse, then I hope there are plenty of spare cells in Manchester for the end of September.
There is another issue: the safety of MPs and their staff. We recently had an MP assassinated, and a terrorist attack outside parliament. The guys protesting are nutters, and one might have a knife or other weapon - or someone with evil intent might use them as cover.
I'd have expected the police to have reacted in a slightly stronger manner than they did. Or at all.
Isn't the issue that the police in and around Parliament are there for security? Are they in a position to start arresting people for gobbing off at politicians? Or do they have to stay in position to deal with a potential terrorist attack?
MPs would probably be better to call the police and get a regular Met copper down to sort them out.
They are quick enough to run round to people's houses when some clown says they were offended on twitter.
Quite a good "The long view" on R4 this morning comparing Brexit (there really is no escape) to the travails of the Tories under Balfour trying to deal with tariff reform. Unlike some of the programs where the comparison seems somewhat contrived this worked surprisingly well. Worth a listen despite the B word.
Couldn't bring myself to watch the film last night but probably will at some point.
Hague in the Telegraph today makes the case for May's deal well, not least because he shows some clear sympathy with the concerns of the no dealers. Will it have any effect? Not if you read JRM right below him. As in 1905 it is increasingly hard to see the Tory party in its current form surviving this. Given the alternatives available that is somewhat unfortunate.
It would probably be a good thing if neither the Tory nor the Labour parties survived 'in their current form'.
and boom, your moral authority just took a break and is currently enjoying a long holiday in Fiji.
Looking for Fiji Water Girl, no doubt.
I have to say given the eco virtual signalling that hollywood like to do I was surprised to see they would have anything to do with that company. I was under the impression that Fiji water was on the naughty list due to extracting a lot of water under a pretty unfair deal to the local population. And how can it ever be justified by your save the planet greenie celebs to buy water that was extracted 1000s of miles away, bottle it and ship it to idiots willing to pay £3 for a tiny bottle.
Quite a good "The long view" on R4 this morning comparing Brexit (there really is no escape) to the travails of the Tories under Balfour trying to deal with tariff reform. Unlike some of the programs where the comparison seems somewhat contrived this worked surprisingly well. Worth a listen despite the B word.
Couldn't bring myself to watch the film last night but probably will at some point.
Hague in the Telegraph today makes the case for May's deal well, not least because he shows some clear sympathy with the concerns of the no dealers. Will it have any effect? Not if you read JRM right below him. As in 1905 it is increasingly hard to see the Tory party in its current form surviving this. Given the alternatives available that is somewhat unfortunate.
I've been doing some totting up this morning. As of today, I count exactly 100 Conservative MPs not supporting the Deal from the Brexit end and 12 Conservative MPs not supporting the Deal from a second referendum end. I've bothered to read what they actually have had to say about the Deal and I'd say roughly a third of those might abstain rather than vote against. Maybe 10 might have their minds changed if they were duffed up in the lavvies by the whips. The rest look to have made their minds up pretty strongly.
Of those 112, 17 resigned from a government position in protest at the way in which negotiations have been handled and a further 25 went public on having issued a letter of no confidence.
Not included in those 42 are Iain Duncan Smith, Andrew Rosindell, John Baron, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Sir John Redwood, Priti Patel and Theresa Villiers. That looks like 50 firm votes against to me.
If the Deal is to get through, there is going to have to be a major change to it or a lot of help from the opposition.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
I think he's saying that your viewpoint is the classical liberal one, not his.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
* Traitor * Nazi * Enemy of the people There is no difference. Each is violent, intimidatory and designed to trigger the same emotion: hate. The response of some haters will be violent, even murderous. Anyone who uses or condones such terms owns what happens next.
It is also a fact that far left mobs have been gobbing at people they do not like, and shouting in their faces, for years. They behave in exactly the same ways as the right wing scum we saw yesterday. If you do not condemn it all, you are a hypocrite. No ifs, no buts.
Agreed. This has been going on for decades.
One reason I am surprised there seemed such a reaction yesterday, but hopefully that will be a good thing.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Being tolerant of intolerance encourages the spread of intolerance. As we are seeing in the UK right now. We have tolerated the far right, and they have infiltrated our public spaces, spread hatred and division, and we stood by and allowed it to happen, we even encouraged people to "listen" and let them "air their legitimate grievances".
This is where tolerance of intolerance leads.
The response, of course, is aggressive intolerance of the intolerant. Punching Nazis is always and everywhere a moral imperative.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
* Traitor * Nazi * Enemy of the people There is no difference. Each is violent, intimidatory and designed to trigger the same emotion: hate. The response of some haters will be violent, even murderous. Anyone who uses or condones such terms owns what happens next.
It is also a fact that far left mobs have been gobbing at people they do not like, and shouting in their faces, for years. They behave in exactly the same ways as the right wing scum we saw yesterday. If you do not condemn it all, you are a hypocrite. No ifs, no buts.
Agreed. This has been going on for decades.
One reason I am surprised there seemed such a reaction yesterday, but hopefully that will be a good thing.
Wrong kind of protesters displaying bullying behaviour.
Quite a good "The long view" on R4 this morning comparing Brexit (there really is no escape) to the travails of the Tories under Balfour trying to deal with tariff reform. Unlike some of the programs where the comparison seems somewhat contrived this worked surprisingly well. Worth a listen despite the B word.
Couldn't bring myself to watch the film last night but probably will at some point.
Hague in the Telegraph today makes the case for May's deal well, not least because he shows some clear sympathy with the concerns of the no dealers. Will it have any effect? Not if you read JRM right below him. As in 1905 it is increasingly hard to see the Tory party in its current form surviving this. Given the alternatives available that is somewhat unfortunate.
Dr Blaxill is a keen political bettor btw, had a profitable chat with him pre GE 17 about backing Labour in Wales particularly Ynys Mon...
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
If I saw one of these c*nts speaking treating a woman they way they did, I doubt I'd be standing around hand-wringing about it and tweeting mealy-mouthed equivocations.
If we were one iota of the society we were during the 1940s, those people would have had the shit kicked out of them roundly the aggressors would be national heroes for the ages.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Being tolerant of intolerance encourages the spread of intolerance. As we are seeing in the UK right now. We have tolerated the far right, and they have infiltrated our public spaces, spread hatred and division, and we stood by and allowed it to happen, we even encouraged people to "listen" and let them "air their legitimate grievances".
This is where tolerance of intolerance leads.
The response, of course, is aggressive intolerance of the intolerant. Punching Nazis is always and everywhere a moral imperative.
Still notable that your target is only those of the far right and not of the far left who have been far more pernicious and damaging in our society since in the last few decades.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Being tolerant of intolerance encourages the spread of intolerance. As we are seeing in the UK right now. We have tolerated the far right, and they have infiltrated our public spaces, spread hatred and division, and we stood by and allowed it to happen, we even encouraged people to "listen" and let them "air their legitimate grievances".
This is where tolerance of intolerance leads.
The response, of course, is aggressive intolerance of the intolerant. Punching Nazis is always and everywhere a moral imperative.
It's similar to how centrists have snivelled and apologised for the last decade and now wonder why they're no longer popular. They've yet to meet a political position which they aren't brimming with enthusiasm to compromise with, and wonder why they're not achieving their political goals.
Still notable that your target is only those of the far right and not of the far left who have been far more pernicious and damaging in our society since in the last few decades.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
I didn't see any left wing activists threatening to rape Kay Burley with an EU flagpole yesterday..?
It is becoming more likely we will not leave at end March. The betting markets are beginning to reflect this. It is now 8/5 on us leaving by this date and a coin toss whether May goes first or Brexit occurs.
If we assume staying in power is the aim of May then a delay is basically the best course for her. It avoids a motion of no confidence. Once the delay starts then what triggers a restart?
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
If I saw one of these c*nts speaking treating a woman they way they did, I doubt I'd be standing around hand-wringing about it and tweeting mealy-mouthed equivocations.
If we were one iota of the society we were during the 1940s, those people would have had the shit kicked out of them roundly the aggressors would be national heroes for the ages.
I very much doubt that
youre sat in your comfy chair typing not tramping the streets in your Doc Martens
and as for the intolerance of the intolerant well I dont see much from you on Soviet communism which murdered more people than the nazis or the nazis modern heirs the islamo-facists,
as I said we just like to pick on people who we think wont fight back
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
2Es is enough to get you in as PM.....
Leader of the opposition perhaps, but hopefully not PM.
It is becoming more likely we will not leave at end March. The betting markets are beginning to reflect this. It is now 8/5 on us leaving by this date and a coin toss whether May goes first or Brexit occurs.
If we assume staying in power is the aim of May then a delay is basically the best course for her. It avoids a motion of no confidence. Once the delay starts then what triggers a restart?
Er, what is the point of more delay? How does that deliver Brexit?
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
JJ , Degrees are for jessies who don't want to do a days work.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
do Oxford go that high ?
They only asked me for 2Es....
Drug dealing now as well as head propaganda spreader.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
It's similar to how centrists have snivelled and apologised for the last decade and now wonder why they're no longer popular. They've yet to meet a political position which they aren't brimming with enthusiasm to compromise with, and wonder why they're not achieving their political goals.
Centrists, as you call them, have this thing called freedom which they think is a jolly good thing. Freedom means Freedom of Speech, Expression and Assembly but it has been conflated with the Right to Offend and the Right to be Offended.
The intolerant have used these as a shield behind which they can espouse their views and, if challenged, their response is "it's my right" or "we have freedom of speech so I can say what I like". In other societies where such freedoms are more restricted, there is no right to criticise a leader or a member of the Government or the Government in general. The coming of Twitter and Facebook has simply broadened the platform for the intolerant and unfortunately too many have responded to intolerance with their own intolerance which has poured petrol on a perfectly good fire.
The cost of Freedom is what we see - the intolerant, using the rights and freedoms of our society, exercising that freedom. No one is snivelling or brimming with compromise as you put it - it's the price those supporting freedom have to pay to maintain that freedom.
The problem with Freedom TO is that it's the wrong word - we should be much more interested in Freedom FROM whether that be poverty, ignorance, corruption, oppression, harassment or whatever. We've spent so long eulogising the right of the individual to be heard we've forgotten about those from whom we never hear.
That is where I part company with classical liberals - the overemphasis on the individual at the expense of the disadvantaged. For liberals in the past, educating and improving the lives of others was the paramount concern - yes, there was an ulterior motive in improving the profitability of their businesses but the wiser heads recognised the philanthropic benefit.
Off topic but Sears in the US is going into Liquidation - the era of the sell everything department store is over https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1082625784529997824 Yes I know its zero hedge but they are often first with the news.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
Quite right. I tend to notice an inverse relationship between a poster's self-proclaimed academic attainments and the quality of his or her outpourings.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
Lots of successful people do not possess degrees.
University should be for an elite few who excel academically.
I feel sorry for those who rack up of lots of debts going to university and no hope of getting a job with high income.
They are better off going straight into work than going to university.
I mean what jobs will a BA in the history of lipstick from the University of Brighton get you?
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
But as I say we have seen exactly the same behaviour from the left for decades and your calls for action have been notably absent. where were your protests over the way Rees-Mogg was abused outside his own home?
Prescisely. We see this kind of behaviour every year at the Tory party conference where MPs and delegates are heckled and abused (and sometimes physically attacked with eggs etc) as they arrive and leave but it's never made into such an issue - presumably because the perpeprators are from the fascist left.
And, of course, Lab's John McDonell has actively encouraged this behaviour as well calling for Esther McVey to be hung.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
do Oxford go that high ?
They only asked me for 2Es....
Drug dealing now as well as head propaganda spreader.
I don't want the government to surrender to blackmail or terrorism. We have a fair alternative ready.
I love the way that many of the people saying this also threaten that there will be civil unrest and terror if another referendum were to happen and result in the people voting to stop.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
You see you were spot on until you mentioned Apple products. Now I doubt your sanity
Still notable that your target is only those of the far right and not of the far left who have been far more pernicious and damaging in our society since in the last few decades.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
Don't want to doxx anyone but there's a whole backstory you're unaware of
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
They're efforts would certainly be appreciated in the West Country.
Still notable that your target is only those of the far right and not of the far left who have been far more pernicious and damaging in our society since in the last few decades.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
I didn't see any left wing activists threatening to rape Kay Burley with an EU flagpole yesterday..?
And yet it was only December 2017 when we had left wing activists threatening the pregnant wife of a Tory MP and saying they were going to 'spear' him and put his head on a spike.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
I too am of the classical liberal persuasion but I do not recognise your call to violence nor your hypocrisy as being characteristics of that tendency.
Richard sometimes violence is needed and, IMO, when it is it should be directed against the baddies.
well theres a sudden change in british political thinking
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
If I saw one of these c*nts speaking treating a woman they way they did, I doubt I'd be standing around hand-wringing about it and tweeting mealy-mouthed equivocations.
If we were one iota of the society we were during the 1940s, those people would have had the shit kicked out of them roundly the aggressors would be national heroes for the ages.
I don't want the government to surrender to blackmail or terrorism. We have a fair alternative ready.
I love the way that many of the people saying this also threaten that there will be civil unrest and terror if another referendum were to happen and result in the people voting to stop.
Even someone as blinkered as you should be able to see there is a difference between saying one fears something will happen and actually advocating it. Or are those claiming there would be a return to the Troubles in the event of a hard border advocating terrorism?
University should be for an elite few who excel academically.
I feel sorry for those who rack up of lots of debts going to university and no hope of getting a job with high income.
They are better off going straight into work than going to university.
I mean what jobs will a BA in the history of lipstick from the University of Brighton get you?
Abolish the polys.
I utterly agree that too many young people are paying for degrees that will not bring an adequate financial return, and personally think the 50% target for universities is a very poor one.
However; *) Not everyone wants to get an adequate financial return. Some people may just want to learn more about a particular area; after all, many people with good degrees don't go into work within that subject area.
*) We need a massive range of skills, and the old universities do not cover them all. As an example, AIUI both Sheffield Uni and Sheffield Hallam are centres of excellence in ceramics. And that does not mean just pottery, but modern high-tech materials research. Or Derby and Staffordshire Unis are apparently rather good with fashion and textiles - and yes, there is a need for qualified people in these areas.
But there are far too many poor courses at poor universities, and even poor courses at good universities. I am all for some universities specialising down into centres of excellence in narrowish areas, but still being universities.
*) There is a related problem, in that some courses are cheap to run, and some are expensive. The scuttlebutt is that Queen Mary and Westfield (now plain old Queen Mary) stopped offering civil engineering as an undergraduate courses as it was so expensive to run. If so, this is a big problem.
I don't want the government to surrender to blackmail or terrorism. We have a fair alternative ready.
I love the way that many of the people saying this also threaten that there will be civil unrest and terror if another referendum were to happen and result in the people voting to stop.
I've never said that. I've long said another referendum would be fine as no Parliament binds its successors, but first we need to enact the results of last referendum then have a government elected on a manifesto pledge of having another referendum which by that point would be a rejoin referendum.
Still notable that your target is only those of the far right and not of the far left who have been far more pernicious and damaging in our society since in the last few decades.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
Don't want to doxx anyone but there's a whole backstory you're unaware of
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
do Oxford go that high ?
They only asked me for 2Es....
I assume you had already passed the Entrance Exam.
This is what happens when people stop punching the far right.
Ah, incitement to violence. A typical response from the left.
I'm not of the left. Classical liberal viewpoint, that the paradox of tolerance is real. The only way to ensure a tolerant society is to be aggressively intolerant of intolerance.
The reason the far right now operate with impunity is precisely because we stopped punching them.
But as I say we have seen exactly the same behaviour from the left for decades and your calls for action have been notably absent. where were your protests over the way Rees-Mogg was abused outside his own home?
Prescisely. We see this kind of behaviour every year at the Tory party conference where MPs and delegates are heckled and abused (and sometimes physically attacked with eggs etc) as they arrive and leave but it's never made into such an issue - presumably because the perpeprators are from the fascist left.
And, of course, Lab's John McDonell has actively encouraged this behaviour as well calling for Esther McVey to be hung.
I saw a quote today in which he said he would not be happy until every Coservative MP was hounded wherever they go.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
You see you were spot on until you mentioned Apple products. Now I doubt your sanity
Apple is a wonderful company. I've never, ever, said that they steal and sell overpriced tat to idiots who care more about form than function.
People who get D and E grades today would have failed A levels under the Relative Marking system used until the late 1980s - or at best would have been awarded an O level pass.
Proposals to bar students without three Ds at A-level would hit courses such as nursing and ‘strike at heart of social mobility’
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
I agree.
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
I don't have a degree, and think that those who sneer at people without degrees or poor qualifications should go and work in their natural habitat, the sewers.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
They're efforts would certainly be appreciated in the West Country.
As an aside, it's interesting they called Soubry a Nazi.
Nazis tend not to attack people they dislike by using the term.
Possibly because those far right, anti immigration, anti EU racists don't see themselves as Nazis. Or they've adapted the current far right tactic of deflecting accusations of Nazism by calling the accusers Nazis.
I don't want the government to surrender to blackmail or terrorism. We have a fair alternative ready.
I love the way that many of the people saying this also threaten that there will be civil unrest and terror if another referendum were to happen and result in the people voting to stop.
Even someone as blinkered as you should be able to see there is a difference between saying one fears something will happen and actually advocating it. Or are those claiming there would be a return to the Troubles in the event of a hard border advocating terrorism?
Richard, I'm a bit disappointed in the "as blinkered as you" line, to be honest.
Those saying that we'd have violence/civil unrest, etc. tend to use that as an argument for why we mustn't go down that route. I did not intend to imply that either side were saying they would do it, or support it (I can see how it could be read that way, to be fair).
It rather struck me as a vivid contradiction, especially as the line on public unrest and violence stated by people rejecting a further referendum has been fairly frequent. Consistency would be nice.
As an aside, it's interesting they called Soubry a Nazi.
Nazis tend not to attack people they dislike by using the term.
The term has been abused that often its lost its meaning really.
Someone [I forget who] recently wrote regarding Trump and his genuinely-fascist supporters that "we spent so long calling everyone we don't like Nazis that when actual Nazis came to the fore we had no words left to use."
and boom, your moral authority just took a break and is currently enjoying a long holiday in Fiji.
Looking for Fiji Water Girl, no doubt.
I have to say given the eco virtual signalling that hollywood like to do I was surprised to see they would have anything to do with that company. I was under the impression that Fiji water was on the naughty list due to extracting a lot of water under a pretty unfair deal to the local population. And how can it ever be justified by your save the planet greenie celebs to buy water that was extracted 1000s of miles away, bottle it and ship it to idiots willing to pay £3 for a tiny bottle.
Ummm: I don't think that's true re Fiji Water.
(Except the bit about celebs paying £3 for a small bottle of water that'd been transported half way around the world.)
Comments
Of those 112, 17 resigned from a government position in protest at the way in which negotiations have been handled and a further 25 went public on having issued a letter of no confidence.
Not included in those 42 are Iain Duncan Smith, Andrew Rosindell, John Baron, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Sir John Redwood, Priti Patel and Theresa Villiers. That looks like 50 firm votes against to me.
If the Deal is to get through, there is going to have to be a major change to it or a lot of help from the opposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Being tolerant of intolerance encourages the spread of intolerance. As we are seeing in the UK right now. We have tolerated the far right, and they have infiltrated our public spaces, spread hatred and division, and we stood by and allowed it to happen, we even encouraged people to "listen" and let them "air their legitimate grievances".
This is where tolerance of intolerance leads.
The response, of course, is aggressive intolerance of the intolerant. Punching Nazis is always and everywhere a moral imperative.
normally we dont do baddies but people we dont think will fight back
If we were one iota of the society we were during the 1940s, those people would have had the shit kicked out of them roundly the aggressors would be national heroes for the ages.
Where is your condemnation of them and their intolerance?
If we assume staying in power is the aim of May then a delay is basically the best course for her. It avoids a motion of no confidence. Once the delay starts then what triggers a restart?
The ideas have been leaked from the prime minister’s review of post-18 education, chaired by Philip Augar, a former equities broker, which is expected to report next month. One idea would stop young people qualifying for a loan if they didn’t get three Ds at A-level.
Last year nearly 8,000 UK 18-year-olds were accepted to study at university with 3Ds or lower, according to new data released by the admissions service Ucas last month. Universities say these applicants are much more likely to be from poorer families.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/08/university-chiefs-angry-elitish-student-loan-plans
It is just me, or it is not ever so slightly concerning that 3 Ds is enough to get you on a nursing course in the first place! And social mobility, if you can't get 3 Ds, should you be going to uni full time regardless of where you come from?
youre sat in your comfy chair typing not tramping the streets in your Doc Martens
and as for the intolerance of the intolerant well I dont see much from you on Soviet communism which murdered more people than the nazis or the nazis modern heirs the islamo-facists,
as I said we just like to pick on people who we think wont fight back
3Ds means you should be working at McDonalds or getting a place at Oxford.
If you're the PM, No Deal Brexit means Brexit.
Except those who buy Apple products. They are, naturally, excellent lads and lasses.
The intolerant have used these as a shield behind which they can espouse their views and, if challenged, their response is "it's my right" or "we have freedom of speech so I can say what I like". In other societies where such freedoms are more restricted, there is no right to criticise a leader or a member of the Government or the Government in general. The coming of Twitter and Facebook has simply broadened the platform for the intolerant and unfortunately too many have responded to intolerance with their own intolerance which has poured petrol on a perfectly good fire.
The cost of Freedom is what we see - the intolerant, using the rights and freedoms of our society, exercising that freedom. No one is snivelling or brimming with compromise as you put it - it's the price those supporting freedom have to pay to maintain that freedom.
The problem with Freedom TO is that it's the wrong word - we should be much more interested in Freedom FROM whether that be poverty, ignorance, corruption, oppression, harassment or whatever. We've spent so long eulogising the right of the individual to be heard we've forgotten about those from whom we never hear.
That is where I part company with classical liberals - the overemphasis on the individual at the expense of the disadvantaged. For liberals in the past, educating and improving the lives of others was the paramount concern - yes, there was an ulterior motive in improving the profitability of their businesses but the wiser heads recognised the philanthropic benefit.
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1082625784529997824
Yes I know its zero hedge but they are often first with the news.
University should be for an elite few who excel academically.
I feel sorry for those who rack up of lots of debts going to university and no hope of getting a job with high income.
They are better off going straight into work than going to university.
I mean what jobs will a BA in the history of lipstick from the University of Brighton get you?
Abolish the polys.
And, of course, Lab's John McDonell has actively encouraged this behaviour as well calling for Esther McVey to be hung.
Poor Nicola, eh?
But then Eck's not out of the woods yet.....
https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/1082608370803195910
They're efforts would certainly be appreciated in the West Country.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1082623651982266368
Wtf have the wurzels been eating?
What would you do if they kicked back?
However;
*) Not everyone wants to get an adequate financial return. Some people may just want to learn more about a particular area; after all, many people with good degrees don't go into work within that subject area.
*) We need a massive range of skills, and the old universities do not cover them all. As an example, AIUI both Sheffield Uni and Sheffield Hallam are centres of excellence in ceramics. And that does not mean just pottery, but modern high-tech materials research. Or Derby and Staffordshire Unis are apparently rather good with fashion and textiles - and yes, there is a need for qualified people in these areas.
But there are far too many poor courses at poor universities, and even poor courses at good universities. I am all for some universities specialising down into centres of excellence in narrowish areas, but still being universities.
*) There is a related problem, in that some courses are cheap to run, and some are expensive. The scuttlebutt is that Queen Mary and Westfield (now plain old Queen Mary) stopped offering civil engineering as an undergraduate courses as it was so expensive to run. If so, this is a big problem.
When even Malc tells you to calm the hell down you know your in trouble!
As an aside, this is an interesting case for us:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/12/20/apples-iphone-found-to-infringe-on-qualcomm-patent-in-german-court
I'll leave others to guess why it's interesting.
Nazis tend not to attack people they dislike by using the term.
We defeated other nations fascists using warfare. Our own we defeated democratically.
Those saying that we'd have violence/civil unrest, etc. tend to use that as an argument for why we mustn't go down that route.
I did not intend to imply that either side were saying they would do it, or support it (I can see how it could be read that way, to be fair).
It rather struck me as a vivid contradiction, especially as the line on public unrest and violence stated by people rejecting a further referendum has been fairly frequent. Consistency would be nice.
It's still weird, even if they are (perhaps especially if they are) far right. Imagine far left lunatics using 'socialist' as an insult.
Someone [I forget who] recently wrote regarding Trump and his genuinely-fascist supporters that "we spent so long calling everyone we don't like Nazis that when actual Nazis came to the fore we had no words left to use."
(Except the bit about celebs paying £3 for a small bottle of water that'd been transported half way around the world.)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46795406
NEW THREAD
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jan/07/you-whitewashed-the-corruption-james-graham-and-carole-cadwalladr-on-brexit-the-uncivil-war?CMP=share_btn_tw