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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With “cabinet resignations” in the air who is going to be firs

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    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    I can really recommend Francois as topping Nadine in those stakes
    Perhaps we could start a reality TV show where politicians are required to go into a jungle and carry out IQ and aptitude tests. The politician who gets the lowest scores has to stay in the jungle. I nominate Nadine ( I am sure she will get approval from the whips office) and Mr Thicky Corbyn. We could simultaneously see whether that increased the collective IQ of the House of Commons
    As has been said Bridgen is a better nominee
  • Options
    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    AndyJS said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
    Well quite. Inveterate Remoaners on here love to claim Leave MPs they disagree with are thick - last night someone applied that to Leadsom, today we have Dorries. Dorries I'd suggest is anything but thick despite not having a university degree. Her back story is unusual and her switch towards supporting May's deal suggests she possesses a degree of common sense some of the quirkier members of the ERG haven't displayed as yet.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
    They may come from "ordinary" backgrounds indeed. However, I prefer to have legislators to be intelligent, so no, they are not meant to be ordinary in that regard. Corbyn is a particularly bad example, as he comes forma non-ordinary background (manor house, prep school, top grammar school) and is intellectually challenged.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited January 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    Andrew Bridgen.

    JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.

    There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
  • Options
    Norm said:

    AndyJS said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
    Well quite. Inveterate Remoaners on here love to claim Leave MPs they disagree with are thick - last night someone applied that to Leadsom, today we have Dorries. Dorries I'd suggest is anything but thick despite not having a university degree. Her back story is unusual and her switch towards supporting May's deal suggests she possesses a degree of common sense some of the quirkier members of the ERG haven't displayed as yet.
    You don't exactly set out your own intellectual credentials by calling people "remoaners". It just makes you look silly. Oh, and by the way, Dorries is definitely thick.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Dura_Ace said:



    I once flew into Alderney in a small gap in the then prevailing fog. We were in an four-seater air-taxi; the pilot more or less shoved us out and took off as soon as we were clear of the wings in his haste to get back to Guernsey.

    When flying an approach to the carrier in the Sea Harrier we had to dump fuel to get down to hover weight of 800lb. The mighty Shar could only dump down to 2,200lbs (AFAICR) and we generally flew it at 60lbs/minute This meant in an instrument guided or "case 3" approach in poor visibility this lucky naval aviator would be flying through all manner of shit weather discarding precious fuel well before I had a visual on the carrier. My hopes avoiding a ride on the ejection seat and subsequent lengthy swim was entirely in the hands of the AD 2770 TACAN (which had be designed and constructed with no great skill by BAe Systems). It's amazing we aren't all dead.
    So you were doing CAT 3 instrument approaches onto a carrier with no more than 13 minutes of fuel left to an empty tank, and presumably no other runway within range most of the time? :o:o:o
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    eek said:
    But not yet fed up enough to admit their negotiators have made a complete Horlicks of Brexit?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158

    eek said:
    That's all well and good but this is a mess that they have helped make. I have little patience with their passive-aggressive defensiveness.

    What do you think they should do (setting aside the question of whether they will)?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Scott_P said:
    Hey, what am I, a method actor? Hans, babe, put away the gun, this is radio, not television.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    I can really recommend Francois as topping Nadine in those stakes
    Perhaps we could start a reality TV show where politicians are required to go into a jungle and carry out IQ and aptitude tests. The politician who gets the lowest scores has to stay in the jungle. I nominate Nadine ( I am sure she will get approval from the whips office) and Mr Thicky Corbyn. We could simultaneously see whether that increased the collective IQ of the House of Commons
    As has been said Bridgen is a better nominee
    I'd nominate Guto Bebb.
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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    eek said:
    Still think it's more like "whatevs (gallic shrug)(eye roll)".

    The dynamic still reminds me of that urban myth with the radio conversation between a US navy ship and an unidentified vessel on its radar arguing over which one needed to change course. After an increasingly heated exchange involving threats of military force, the last line is "this is a lighthouse. Your move".
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    edited January 2019
    _Anazina_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Some nasty rocks around Alderney, too. Flying into the airport can be a bit hairy.
    Indeed so, here's hoping for a good outcome, but as hours pass that looks increasingly unlikely.

    Sadly, sounds like another case of what's known in aviation as getthereitis (get-there-itis), where a seemingly overpowering need to complete the planned flight overrides sensible decision making in changing conditions.

    Also stand by for Premier League clubs (more specifically their insurers) to ban players from travelling in single engined planes.
    I once flew into Alderney in a small gap in the then prevailing fog. We were in an four-seater air-taxi; the pilot more or less shoved us out and took off as soon as we were clear of the wings in his haste to get back to Guernsey.
    Yep, happens all the time in the light charter market and executive travel. 99% of the time it's okay, but occasionally it goes wrong and the weather gods win.
    It was my mothers funeral, I was very anxious to get there and we'd been waiting at Southampton for four hours. The weather gods sense of irony ensured that the service plane from Southampton the Alderney got in about an hour later with the rest of my family.
    The fog then closed in properly and we were all stuck on Alderney for two days.
    Alderney's a b*&^%r for that in winter.
    Is it not possible to catch the boat there?
    No; summer only. And at the time no regular ones even then.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:
    That's all well and good but this is a mess that they have helped make. I have little patience with their passive-aggressive defensiveness.

    What do you think they should do (setting aside the question of whether they will)?
    Offer to time limit the back-stop to ten years. No-one wants it lasting remotely that long, but it at least kills the Hotel California Brexit meme.

    We could settle at seven.
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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    Cyclefree said:

    We must surely be getting near to the point where there are more MPs who have been on the government payroll and have resigned than there are MPs left to fill any vacancies, whether in Cabinet or elsewhere.

    In the future, everyone will be Minister for Pensions for 15 minutes.
    I'd prefer "famous".
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Norm said:

    AndyJS said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
    Well quite. Inveterate Remoaners on here love to claim Leave MPs they disagree with are thick - last night someone applied that to Leadsom, today we have Dorries. Dorries I'd suggest is anything but thick despite not having a university degree. Her back story is unusual and her switch towards supporting May's deal suggests she possesses a degree of common sense some of the quirkier members of the ERG haven't displayed as yet.
    You don't exactly set out your own intellectual credentials by calling people "remoaners". It just makes you look silly. Oh, and by the way, Dorries is definitely thick.
    Not really Remainers I respect, Remoaners who want to upend the 2016 referendum I don't.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    eek said:
    Still think it's more like "whatevs (gallic shrug)(eye roll)".

    The dynamic still reminds me of that urban myth with the radio conversation between a US navy ship and an unidentified vessel on its radar arguing over which one needed to change course. After an increasingly heated exchange involving threats of military force, the last line is "this is a lighthouse. Your move".
    Quite. It was our idea to play silly beggars.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
    For goods, carriage to port of import

    Seller responsibility: DDP, DAP, DAT, CIP, CPT, CIF, CFR
    Buyer responsibility: FOB, FAS, FCA, EXW.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    I can really recommend Francois as topping Nadine in those stakes
    Perhaps we could start a reality TV show where politicians are required to go into a jungle and carry out IQ and aptitude tests. The politician who gets the lowest scores has to stay in the jungle. I nominate Nadine ( I am sure she will get approval from the whips office) and Mr Thicky Corbyn. We could simultaneously see whether that increased the collective IQ of the House of Commons
    As has been said Bridgen is a better nominee
    I'd nominate Guto Bebb.
    Maybe joint
  • Options
    _Anazina_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Some nasty rocks around Alderney, too. Flying into the airport can be a bit hairy.
    Indeed so, here's hoping for a good outcome, but as hours pass that looks increasingly unlikely.

    Sadly, sounds like another case of what's known in aviation as getthereitis (get-there-itis), where a seemingly overpowering need to complete the planned flight overrides sensible decision making in changing conditions.

    Also stand by for Premier League clubs (more specifically their insurers) to ban players from travelling in single engined planes.
    I once flew into Alderney in a small gap in the then prevailing fog. We were in an four-seater air-taxi; the pilot more or less shoved us out and took off as soon as we were clear of the wings in his haste to get back to Guernsey.
    Yep, happens all the time in the light charter market and executive travel. 99% of the time it's okay, but occasionally it goes wrong and the weather gods win.
    It was my mothers funeral, I was very anxious to get there and we'd been waiting at Southampton for four hours. The weather gods sense of irony ensured that the service plane from Southampton the Alderney got in about an hour later with the rest of my family.
    The fog then closed in properly and we were all stuck on Alderney for two days.
    Alderney's a b*&^%r for that in winter.
    Is it not possible to catch the boat there?
    Boats aren't safer to my knowledge but they're less newsworthy when they get missing (except if there is a high profile individual in them).
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    Andrew Bridgen.

    JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.

    There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
    My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Lay Hammond - whilst Rudd etc may get recalled in the future, spreadsheet Phil is friendless and even May wanted to replace him.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    edited January 2019
    I see ICM have a new poll Con 39%, Lab 40%, Lib Dem 9%, UKIP 6%.

    They list a number of options for what Parliament should do now, and the public are as divided as the MP's, although No Deal is the single most popular, with 32% support.

    Averaging the most recent polls from Kantar, YouGov, ICM, Number Cruncher, Survation, Com Res, and Opinium gives exactly 38% each.
  • Options

    Cyclefree said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    Andrew Bridgen.

    JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.

    There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
    My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
    Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I once flew into Alderney in a small gap in the then prevailing fog. We were in an four-seater air-taxi; the pilot more or less shoved us out and took off as soon as we were clear of the wings in his haste to get back to Guernsey.

    When flying an approach to the carrier in the Sea Harrier we had to dump fuel to get down to hover weight of 800lb. The mighty Shar could only dump down to 2,200lbs (AFAICR) and we generally flew it at 60lbs/minute This meant in an instrument guided or "case 3" approach in poor visibility this lucky naval aviator would be flying through all manner of shit weather discarding precious fuel well before I had a visual on the carrier. My hopes avoiding a ride on the ejection seat and subsequent lengthy swim was entirely in the hands of the AD 2770 TACAN (which had be designed and constructed with no great skill by BAe Systems). It's amazing we aren't all dead.
    So you were doing CAT 3 instrument approaches onto a carrier with no more than 13 minutes of fuel left to an empty tank, and presumably no other runway within range most of the time? :o:o:o
    It was a lot less then 13 minutes in practice as, once in the hover, it would burn from 800lbs down to 250lbs (the goal for landing and the fuel weight below which a flameout was a real possibility) in a couple of minutes.

    The process was enlivened by the fact that one was expected to arrive at the designated 'Charlie Time' in the hover next to the carrier at +/- 30 seconds. Failure to do so would provoke a raised eyebrow from Cdr Air which posed the unvoiced question as to whether one was really suited to naval aviation.

    Also, if one flew the approach too slowly, as one might be inclined to do for sound reasons of self-preservation, one could expect absolutely savage barracking from the rest of squadron for 'soft' flying.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
    For goods, carriage to port of import

    Seller responsibility: DDP, DAP, DAT, CIP, CPT, CIF, CFR
    Buyer responsibility: FOB, FAS, FCA, EXW.
    I am sure those TLAs mean something to someone.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Cyclefree said:

    We must surely be getting near to the point where there are more MPs who have been on the government payroll and have resigned than there are MPs left to fill any vacancies, whether in Cabinet or elsewhere.

    This is the list:
    https://twitter.com/addadc/status/1087280731506860032
  • Options
    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    Sean_F said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    I can really recommend Francois as topping Nadine in those stakes
    Perhaps we could start a reality TV show where politicians are required to go into a jungle and carry out IQ and aptitude tests. The politician who gets the lowest scores has to stay in the jungle. I nominate Nadine ( I am sure she will get approval from the whips office) and Mr Thicky Corbyn. We could simultaneously see whether that increased the collective IQ of the House of Commons
    As has been said Bridgen is a better nominee
    I'd nominate Guto Bebb.
    Maybe joint
    There's certainly a class of MP who believes that as long as you say something semi-coherently and with enough conviction, you'll get on TV and convince the barely-interested. eg JRM and OPatz.. probably Corbyn too.

    There are also some who fall down on the coherence and quickly become a laughing stock. (Dorries; Bridgen when it's not a well-polished bon mot delivered by email to the Daily Mail)

    Some start off in camp 1 but move into camp 2 as soon as they're exposed to any more than fleeting challenge. (Dominic Raab.. I have my eye on you)
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2019

    eek said:
    Still think it's more like "whatevs (gallic shrug)(eye roll)".

    The dynamic still reminds me of that urban myth with the radio conversation between a US navy ship and an unidentified vessel on its radar arguing over which one needed to change course. After an increasingly heated exchange involving threats of military force, the last line is "this is a lighthouse. Your move".
    That’s good but not as good as this one (even if only for the pilot’s storybtelling technique)

    @Dura_Ace might like it too

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ILop3Kn3JO8
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Cyclefree said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    Andrew Bridgen.

    JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.

    There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
    My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
    Y ou are entitled to your view - in a democracy to exactly the same degree as the rest of us.. and no more. It is your inability to see this that points to a lack of self-awareness when criticising the intellect of MPs whose views you dislike.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    Check your statements every month. It’s 101.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
    For goods, carriage to port of import

    Seller responsibility: DDP, DAP, DAT, CIP, CPT, CIF, CFR
    Buyer responsibility: FOB, FAS, FCA, EXW.
    I am sure those TLAs mean something to someone.
    Standard shipping incoterms.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    Fee was quoted as 15m, not sure whether pounds or euros, and at what point in the process the bank transfer happens. I'm assuming that clubs have large amounts of insurance for players, against injury or accident. In this case I can imagine several insurers arguing over who was responsible for Mr Sala as he got on that plane.

    Insurers in general will be paying much closer attention in general to the activities of people with large valuations on them. F1 drivers are already banned from anything more dangerous than a go-kart race, after several found interesting ways to get injured out of season.
    I can see this being a bit similar to the Dean Ashton case.

    His career was ended when on England duty he fell over Shaun Wright-Philips. I think it took over 3-4 years of different insurers, England's, Man City's (Wright-Philips club at the time) and West Ham's (Ashton's club at the time) all arguing who should pay out.

    I believe in the end Ashton had to personally sue Wright-Philips before there was a resolution.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:
    That's all well and good but this is a mess that they have helped make. I have little patience with their passive-aggressive defensiveness.

    What do you think they should do (setting aside the question of whether they will)?
    Thanks for your comment on bitcoin/blockchain.

    That's a good question. However, shrugging their shoulders and saying it's not their problem is not the answer.

    The EU has in large part set the parameters for the current mess. It decided on its red lines and has stuck to them rigidly.

    Does it want a no-deal Brexit? I'd strongly suggest that is not in the EU's interest. If not, it needs to decide how it proposes to avoid that. Other shapes of deals should be mooted and it should be indicating that an extension would be freely granted to explore those.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
    the PM is not the U.K.

    She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    To add to that, most banks recruiting IT staff demand extensive banking experience, so people are just moving from one bank to another and no experienced people from other industries are coming in.

    So the systems are a mess of very old, old and new, no-one really knows how they all work together (but they do, so let's not change anything) and the industry is averse to experienced outsiders. What could possibly go wrong? :s
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
    the PM is not the U.K.

    She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
    Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    edited January 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
    For goods, carriage to port of import

    Seller responsibility: DDP, DAP, DAT, CIP, CPT, CIF, CFR
    Buyer responsibility: FOB, FAS, FCA, EXW.
    I am sure those TLAs mean something to someone.
    Standard shipping incoterms.
    May be wrong here but I'd say there's a fair chance that those who know the abbreviations, know the seller & buyer responsibilities already too. So I am not sure what value your post added to the sum of human knowledge. :wink:
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
  • Options
    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    You can imagine Cork and Roscoff (or whatever) might need some Ramsgate-style improvements. Or even ones which might work.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    Check your statements every month. It’s 101.
    I agree. It’s seen, I think , by some as a bit old-fashioned. But essential.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2019

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    You can imagine Cork and Roscoff (or whatever) might need some Ramsgate-style improvements. Or even ones which might work.
    I believe there is a new ferry company that can offer its services....UK government recommended..
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158

    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:
    That's all well and good but this is a mess that they have helped make. I have little patience with their passive-aggressive defensiveness.

    What do you think they should do (setting aside the question of whether they will)?
    Thanks for your comment on bitcoin/blockchain.

    That's a good question. However, shrugging their shoulders and saying it's not their problem is not the answer.

    The EU has in large part set the parameters for the current mess. It decided on its red lines and has stuck to them rigidly.

    Does it want a no-deal Brexit? I'd strongly suggest that is not in the EU's interest. If not, it needs to decide how it proposes to avoid that. Other shapes of deals should be mooted and it should be indicating that an extension would be freely granted to explore those.

    Thanks.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    edited January 2019
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    To add to that, most banks recruiting IT staff demand extensive banking experience, so people are just moving from one bank to another and no experienced people from other industries are coming in.

    So the systems are a mess of very old, old and new, no-one really knows how they all work together (but they do, so let's not change anything) and the industry is averse to experienced outsiders. What could possibly go wrong? :s
    You might be proved right but in my personal experience at least one major high-street bank has a massive focus on security, and I have no reason to doubt the others do too.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,132

    Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?

    Gove and Johnson certainly are. They are both very clever.

    All relative, of course. Most MPs are brighter than most people.

    But to use that pass-the-sick-bucket phrase a 'rolls royce intellect', how many then?

    Still Gove, IMO, but that's about it on the Leave side. Happy to consider other applications.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
  • Options
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Ireland is expanding its container seaport capacity to ship direct back and forth to the continent but this will take a few years to complete. A good move anyway to take some HGVs off Britain's roads.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I once flew into Alderney in a small gap in the then prevailing fog. We were in an four-seater air-taxi; the pilot more or less shoved us out and took off as soon as we were clear of the wings in his haste to get back to Guernsey.

    When flying an approach to the carrier in the Sea Harrier we had to dump fuel to get down to hover weight of 800lb. The mighty Shar could only dump down to 2,200lbs (AFAICR) and we generally flew it at 60lbs/minute This meant in an instrument guided or "case 3" approach in poor visibility this lucky naval aviator would be flying through all manner of shit weather discarding precious fuel well before I had a visual on the carrier. My hopes avoiding a ride on the ejection seat and subsequent lengthy swim was entirely in the hands of the AD 2770 TACAN (which had be designed and constructed with no great skill by BAe Systems). It's amazing we aren't all dead.
    So you were doing CAT 3 instrument approaches onto a carrier with no more than 13 minutes of fuel left to an empty tank, and presumably no other runway within range most of the time? :o:o:o
    It was a lot less then 13 minutes in practice as, once in the hover, it would burn from 800lbs down to 250lbs (the goal for landing and the fuel weight below which a flameout was a real possibility) in a couple of minutes.

    The process was enlivened by the fact that one was expected to arrive at the designated 'Charlie Time' in the hover next to the carrier at +/- 30 seconds. Failure to do so would provoke a raised eyebrow from Cdr Air which posed the unvoiced question as to whether one was really suited to naval aviation.

    Also, if one flew the approach too slowly, as one might be inclined to do for sound reasons of self-preservation, one could expect absolutely savage barracking from the rest of squadron for 'soft' flying.
    Bloody hell, you lot definitely had a screw loose! I was going to comment that it's no surprise so many of your Naval colleagues ended up going swimming, but having ready that account I'm surprised it wasn't many more!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
    the PM is not the U.K.

    She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
    Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
    Neither of us knows that

    It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,699
    DavidL said:


    Is this the unicorn poo that so much time was spent discussing yesterday or the more common or garden variety?

    As the father of a little girl, I can confirm you can buy Unicorn poo in tubs, and my daughter has some.

    Perhaps it will be needed pretty darn soon.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    Charles said:

    eek said:
    Still think it's more like "whatevs (gallic shrug)(eye roll)".

    The dynamic still reminds me of that urban myth with the radio conversation between a US navy ship and an unidentified vessel on its radar arguing over which one needed to change course. After an increasingly heated exchange involving threats of military force, the last line is "this is a lighthouse. Your move".
    That’s good but not as good as this one (even if only for the pilot’s storybtelling technique)

    @Dura_Ace might like it too

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ILop3Kn3JO8
    I have met Major Shul at Oceana when he was doing something or other with USNFDS. He has many great yarns but the story of his shootdown, evasion and eventual rescue in Vietnam turned my hair white just hearing about it. He was running around the jungle with most of his skin burned off and being pursued by "Charlie" for days until AFSOC pulled him out. The USAF put 104 aircraft in the air that day to cover his extraction!
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?

    Gove and Johnson certainly are. They are both very clever.

    All relative, of course. Most MPs are brighter than most people.

    But to use that pass-the-sick-bucket phrase a 'rolls royce intellect', how many then?

    Still Gove, IMO, but that's about it on the Leave side. Happy to consider other applications.
    Sir John Redwood is a Fellow of All Souls, which suggests he's not short of a braincell or two!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?

    Gove and Johnson certainly are. They are both very clever.

    All relative, of course. Most MPs are brighter than most people.

    But to use that pass-the-sick-bucket phrase a 'rolls royce intellect', how many then?

    Still Gove, IMO, but that's about it on the Leave side. Happy to consider other applications.
    Kwasi is seriously bright
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sad news from Cardiff FC. French police confirm that their new signing Emiliano Sala was on board light aircraft missing since last night in the English Channel just off Brittany. Search underway again, having being called off for bad weather in the early hours.
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1087635184260923392

    Would they have insurance on the fee?

    I could see an argument about it if he never turned up for work

    (Too soon?)
    I thought the exact same thing when I heard the story - it's an awkward question which I'm sure TSE will avoid answering.
    Doesn't that amount to life insurance on the life of another person (not being your spouse or civil partner)?
    Isn't it just a variation of key person insurance for a company?
    Fair point
    I think the argument will be when the contract is fulfilled

    The contract has been signed, the money wired but the asset has not been conveyed as expected

    One would assume that the insurance policies indicate when liability passes from one insurer to the other but it’s not necessarily on signature. The sums are large enough that I expect t my learned friends will be earning their fees soon enough
    For goods, carriage to port of import

    Seller responsibility: DDP, DAP, DAT, CIP, CPT, CIF, CFR
    Buyer responsibility: FOB, FAS, FCA, EXW.
    I am sure those TLAs mean something to someone.
    Standard shipping incoterms.
    May be wrong here but I'd say there's a fair chance that those who know the abbreviations, know the seller & buyer responsibilities already too. So I am not sure what value your post added to the sum of human knowledge. :wink:
    It reminded me of what I had forgotten about this logistics topic.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    TGOHF said:

    Lay Hammond - whilst Rudd etc may get recalled in the future, spreadsheet Phil is friendless and even May wanted to replace him.

    He does, though, appear to have some idea about which way is up!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    To add to that, most banks recruiting IT staff demand extensive banking experience, so people are just moving from one bank to another and no experienced people from other industries are coming in.

    So the systems are a mess of very old, old and new, no-one really knows how they all work together (but they do, so let's not change anything) and the industry is averse to experienced outsiders. What could possibly go wrong? :s
    You might be proved right but in my personal experience at least one major high-street bank has a massive focus on security, and I have no reason to doubt the others do too.
    They certainly have focus on security now, but IMO it's only a matter of time before a major bank suffers a seriously damaging data loss from malicious activity.
    (Or maybe I just complain because banks never give me interviews!).
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Cyclefree said:

    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.

    Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    Not a huge amount though
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.

    When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,132
    Sean_F said:

    I see ICM have a new poll Con 39%, Lab 40%, Lib Dem 9%, UKIP 6%.

    Averaging the most recent polls from Kantar, YouGov, ICM, Number Cruncher, Survation, Com Res, and Opinium gives exactly 38% each.

    Thanks. I will forward to Fiona Bruce.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
    the PM is not the U.K.

    She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
    Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
    Neither of us knows that

    It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
    Why would the ERG agree to pay £39bn for two years as a "vassal state" and no guarantee of a deal to their liking at the end of it when their preferred option of no deal is within reach? It would be a total capitulation from them.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    I don't want to worry anyone, but this has just come up on my Facebook page from Trade Deal Watch, whoever they are.
    'According to a Twitter poll by Sky News, 26% of people think "no deal" Brexit means staying in the EU...'
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    Not a huge amount though
    Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited January 2019


    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?

    But what is the other option - Leave with No Deal or remain.

    Remember that 26% of people who want No Deal think it means remaining in the EU....
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.

    Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
    That's a very good summary :+1:
  • Options
    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    DavidL said:


    Is this the unicorn poo that so much time was spent discussing yesterday or the more common or garden variety?

    As the father of a little girl, I can confirm you can buy Unicorn poo in tubs, and my daughter has some.

    Perhaps it will be needed pretty darn soon.
    CCO's put in a bulk order as an election sweetener.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    I don't want to worry anyone, but this has just come up on my Facebook page from Trade Deal Watch, whoever they are.
    'According to a Twitter poll by Sky News, 26% of people think "no deal" Brexit means staying in the EU...'

    It's not a real poll. However proper polls show that a similar number to that think that everything would carry on as now without change. Only around 1% think it actually means staying in the EU.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    eek said:

    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?

    But what is the other option - Leave with No Deal or remain.

    Remember that 26% of people who want No Deal think it means remaining in the EU....

    Philip Cowley's report, published today, suggests that the proportion who think No Deal means the status quo is 8%.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.

    Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
    Very interesting comments from you and Sandpit on this subject. As an utterly uninformed idiot on these matters I just assumed bank IT security would be good...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    DavidL said:

    Have they got beer and sandwiches at the ready?
    David, unions nowadays will want foie gras and champers, no working class union leaders nowadays
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?
    Or Norway, or Labour's Customs Union, or some other variant, or simply a rerun.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If whoever is next to go does so because of a policy argument, rather than a scandal, then it's going to depend on whether Mrs May goes for the 'harder' or 'softer' option on Brexit.

    If she goes for no deal, then Amber et al will resign, if she goes for a softer negotiation (SM/CU etc) then it could be Penny et al instead.

    Didn't the manifesto rule out SM/CU?

    Anyone holding the Tory whip should be opposing that.
    Yes, and yes they should.

    But then Dominic Grieve still somehow holds the Tory whip, I think with almost any other Parliamentary arithmetic he'd have been suspended by the party before now.
    That and Cameron's constitutional vandalism of the FTPA that removed the four line whip.

    How different would this ratification process be if May could make a vote a confidence vote like Major did to force his bastards into line over Maastricht. Modern day bastards like Grieve don't face that.
    Indeed. This past few weeks would have gone down very differently without the FTPA and the 'four line whip' it removed.

    It's inadvertently created a situation with a completely hung Parliament and small splits in both main parties, whereby nothing substantial can be passed yet the government doesn't lose a vote of confidence.
    That's not a legislative problem it's mps being cowards.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161

    I don't want to worry anyone, but this has just come up on my Facebook page from Trade Deal Watch, whoever they are.
    'According to a Twitter poll by Sky News, 26% of people think "no deal" Brexit means staying in the EU...'

    It's not a real poll. However proper polls show that a similar number to that think that everything would carry on as now without change. Only around 1% think it actually means staying in the EU.
    Around a quarter of population then are in for a very nasty shock in April.
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    HGV levy:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy

    No idea how yield compares to the additional wear and tear cost on roads though.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    I don't want to worry anyone, but this has just come up on my Facebook page from Trade Deal Watch, whoever they are.
    'According to a Twitter poll by Sky News, 26% of people think "no deal" Brexit means staying in the EU...'

    It's not a real poll. However proper polls show that a similar number to that think that everything would carry on as now without change. Only around 1% think it actually means staying in the EU.
    Of course a Twitter poll isn't real. However, reading things like this can be concerning. I mean, perhaps that's what Nadine Dorries believes.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.

    When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
    Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Indeed.

    But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border

    The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
    The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
    the PM is not the U.K.

    She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
    Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
    Neither of us knows that

    It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
    Why would the ERG agree to pay £39bn for two years as a "vassal state" and no guarantee of a deal to their liking at the end of it when their preferred option of no deal is within reach? It would be a total capitulation from them.
    Risk mitigation
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    eek said:
    That's all well and good but this is a mess that they have helped make. I have little patience with their passive-aggressive defensiveness.
    Well quite. It's also right out of their playbook from before the referendum to constantly express befuddlement at those silly brits. Us being more to blame doesn't merit their rather casual indifference. It's why I assume that they do now want no deal or remain, because usually the EU loves to talk.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?

    But what is the other option - Leave with No Deal or remain.

    Remember that 26% of people who want No Deal think it means remaining in the EU....
    Philip Cowley's report, published today, suggests that the proportion who think No Deal means the status quo is 8%.
    Still 1 in 12 people getting a nasty surprise...
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,804
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-



    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
    Banks generally still have decent IT documentation and processes, but the amount of layers, probably still all with the core banking systems on a mainframe that few of the younger engineers properly understand, mean that there are many nooks and crannies where the written knowledge doesn't quite join up properly. If they've also had a couple of outsource / insource cycles and lost key knowledge through cursory knowledge transfers, the gaps can be quite big.

    Thus the siren lure of the new, clean and shiny (or cloudy): but you normally still have to understand a lot of the daft old wiring to successfully design and move to the new and shiny, and testing won't always tell you every last thing. TSB found out the hard way, it probably contributed with Brexit to RBS giving up on their Williams & Glyn project, and Co-op may face / have faced it if they ever try and disentangle food and banking IT at the back end.

    Whenever someone gets a big outage, loads of IT engineers go onto The Register and state 'it couldn't happen here', I'm more of the school of 'by the gaps we have closed and a little of the grace of God'.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    edited January 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.

    Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
    Very interesting comments from you and Sandpit on this subject. As an utterly uninformed idiot on these matters I just assumed bank IT security would be good...
    Personally I always check my (on-line) account daily. Or pretty nearly so! And my credit card transactions.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.

    When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
    All of the media noise has been about UK weaknesses but it seems to me that the Republic could be pretty inconvenienced by hard borders and its solution to those inconveniences could be beneficial for the UK. This is an unpressed button so far as the UK is concerned. Also all those privileges that accrue to EU/ Irish citizens.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    Not a huge amount though
    Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
    More of a problem for Ireland?
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    eek said:


    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?

    But what is the other option - Leave with No Deal or remain.

    Remember that 26% of people who want No Deal think it means remaining in the EU....
    The problem to solve here is how to get a majority for something, and the MPs who want No Deal are strongly against a referendum anyhow, so the other option is obviously Remain.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158
    edited January 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something.

    Marc Francois is even worse
    I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
    Andrew Bridgen.

    JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.

    There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
    My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
    Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?
    Gove is not a fool. Though he has said some silly things in the past on this topic. He has shown some signs of resiling from some of those statements.

    I would make a distinction between those who support Brexit and understand that it has its costs and difficulties but nonetheless think it the right way forward for Britain and are prepared to put forward practical plans for addressing the difficulties.

    And those who support Brexit but refuse to admit that there are costs and trade offs, refuse to educate themselves about the legal, technical and other issues involved and make untrue and easily checkable statements.

    I may disagree with the former but it is a valid position to hold. The latter are being dishonest and/or stupid.

    My position is that while I have some very considerable sympathy with those who think, not without good reason, that there are some very serious incompatibilities between Britain and the EU and that not enough serious thought has been given by either Britain or the EU to how to create a workable modus vivendi between them, the last two and a half years have shown that those pushing Brexit have not really had a clue about how to achieve it nor about what their long-term strategy should be vis-a-vis Europe. To proceed in the absence of plans or strategy and with the country so divided seems to me to be the height of folly, partiularly in light of the gepolitical changes that have happened since June 2016 (Trump, the rise of China, Putin’s increasing aggression). That is why I think the Pause button should be pushed while we do some hard thinking.

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.

    Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.

    One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.

    With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
    Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?

    Besides the odd cup of coffee?

    Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
    Employment in the ports, I guess.
    Not a huge amount though
    Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
    The soda bread and butter
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    AndyJS said:

    Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are

    Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
    When has that ever been true? It's job is to represent the people's interests not just be a perfect reflection of the people. Hereditary peers can now sit in the commons.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:


    It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.

    The May-Barnier deal, shorely?

    But what is the other option - Leave with No Deal or remain.

    Remember that 26% of people who want No Deal think it means remaining in the EU....
    Philip Cowley's report, published today, suggests that the proportion who think No Deal means the status quo is 8%.
    Still 1 in 12 people getting a nasty surprise...
    My mistake, it's actually 4%.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Have they got beer and sandwiches at the ready?
    David, unions nowadays will want foie gras and champers, no working class union leaders nowadays
    True - socialists one and all
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re @AlistairMeeks’s request re bitcoin and blockchain (fpt):-

    Paul Donovan, the former Chief Economist of UBS has written quite a lot about bitcoin. He is convinced it is a bubble and there have certainly been a few scandals around it. Quite a lot of people who invest in it don’t understand it, always a very bad sign.

    Blockchain is different. It is, in essence, a way of storing payment and ownership information (very simplistically put) and has the potential for being useful and possibly disruptive in the way that new technologies can be. A very good friend of mine is an expert in this area and does a lot of work with various institutions on how it can be used. But a lot about it is oversold and many who sing its praises don’t really understand it.

    So I would proceed with caution unless you can really understand it. My general view is that there is nothing in this world so complicated that someone who understands it can’t explain it simply. And if they can’t, one of two things is usually happening: they’re either trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they don’t understand it themselves.

    And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.

    Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
    I agree completely. We won that argument with one institution when we sent them a photograph of the door of their "secure" on prem server facility propped open with a rather nice case of wine, "because it had got a bit warm for the people working in there". If anything, I'm more surprised and outraged by the way they were treating the wine.
This discussion has been closed.