Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Marc Francois is even worse
I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
Andrew Bridgen.
JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.
There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
Owen Patterson is the worst of that bunch, on a par with Tredinnick.
If they are going to cancel Brexit - and they are - I wish they'd just get on with it.
Indeed. The pretence from some that is not the aim is insulting and they're trying to walk us into it slowly rather than do it. It's on our interests now, so no need to delay.
I was reading the other day that one of the reasons that the EU is seriously thinking that extending article 50 is a bad idea is because they do not want the Brits to send even more Faragista's to the EU parliament. They are worried enough about the populists in other countries without adding to their numbers.
I don't want to worry anyone, but this has just come up on my Facebook page from Trade Deal Watch, whoever they are. 'According to a Twitter poll by Sky News, 26% of people think "no deal" Brexit means staying in the EU...'
It's not a real poll. However proper polls show that a similar number to that think that everything would carry on as now without change. Only around 1% think it actually means staying in the EU.
Of course a Twitter poll isn't real. However, reading things like this can be concerning. I mean, perhaps that's what Nadine Dorries believes.
It also shows how a second referendum is (as David Herdson points out) a process, not an outcome. It's not at all clear that the Commons will come up with any alternative to Remain, even if it can force through legislation to hold a second referendum.
The May-Barnier deal, shorely?
Or Norway, or Labour's Customs Union, or some other variant, or simply a rerun.
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit here but if it's the current parliament I'd have thought they'd go for something that: 1) Actually exists 2) Has a clearly defined meaning so you can actually implement it
If there was a general election in between and Labour wins it then it looks like Corbyn's going to run on renegotiation+referendum, so the Remain option would be a Cameronized version of May-Barnier.
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
They may come from "ordinary" backgrounds indeed. However, I prefer to have legislators to be intelligent, so no, they are not meant to be ordinary in that regard. Corbyn is a particularly bad example, as he comes forma non-ordinary background (manor house, prep school, top grammar school) and is intellectually challenged.
150+ IQ would mean around 15,000 eligible adults in the country, it's an extraordinary bar...
My guess is there might be perhaps 1 parliamentarian with such an IQ in the house right now - and they're probably not a household name.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Sorry Big_G, but the recreation of Little England is worth any price to the inward looking brigade. The Welsh are simply finding out how "valued" they are to those in rural Englandshire.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
Not a huge amount though
Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
More of a problem for Ireland?
Logically there must be the same absolute impact on revenue cross-channel (assuming the Ireland-UK lorries continue regardless), even if a smaller proportion of total traffic.
More people (trips) visit Ireland than travel overseas from Ireland. How this translates into ferry travel in each direction I have no idea.
If they are going to cancel Brexit - and they are - I wish they'd just get on with it.
Indeed. The pretence from some that is not the aim is insulting and they're trying to walk us into it slowly rather than do it. It's on our interests now, so no need to delay.
There isn't a plot to cancel Brexit, Mrs May genuinely wants to provide it. The problem for Brexiteers is that reality is intervening,
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
Not a huge amount though
Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
More of a problem for Ireland?
Logically there must be the same absolute impact on revenue cross-channel (assuming the Ireland-UK lorries continue regardless), even if a smaller proportion of total traffic.
More people (trips) visit Ireland than travel overseas from Ireland. How this translates into ferry travel in each direction I have no idea.
34% of plane take offs in Ireland land in the UK. Why take the ferry when cheapo airline will fly you for 9 euros.
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
They may come from "ordinary" backgrounds indeed. However, I prefer to have legislators to be intelligent, so no, they are not meant to be ordinary in that regard. Corbyn is a particularly bad example, as he comes forma non-ordinary background (manor house, prep school, top grammar school) and is intellectually challenged.
150+ IQ would mean around 15,000 eligible adults in the country, it's an extraordinary bar...
My guess is there might be perhaps 1 parliamentarian with such an IQ in the house right now - and they're probably not a household name.
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
They may come from "ordinary" backgrounds indeed. However, I prefer to have legislators to be intelligent, so no, they are not meant to be ordinary in that regard. Corbyn is a particularly bad example, as he comes forma non-ordinary background (manor house, prep school, top grammar school) and is intellectually challenged.
150+ IQ would mean around 15,000 eligible adults in the country, it's an extraordinary bar...
My guess is there might be perhaps 1 parliamentarian with such an IQ in the house right now - and they're probably not a household name.
What's needed is good judgement rather than exceptional IQ.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
Very interesting comments from you and Sandpit on this subject. As an utterly uninformed idiot on these matters I just assumed bank IT security would be good...
Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
Bank security is uniformly terrible. Almost all of the well known large internet companies have better security than any retail bank. I think the only reason banks get away with crap security is that the spend a fortune on fraud detection and insurance. AFAICT bank IT is a good generation behind best practice. I think a big part of the problem parodoxically is regulation, which makes banks extremely conservative and slow to act. Which has left bank IT systems, both internal and customer facing, far behind the state of the art.
Very interesting comments from you and Sandpit on this subject. As an utterly uninformed idiot on these matters I just assumed bank IT security would be good...
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
How long do you think it takes to cross the Irish Sea, cross Wales and England, and then cross over to Rotterdam?
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Sorry Big_G, but the recreation of Little England is worth any price to the inward looking brigade. The Welsh are simply finding out how "valued" they are to those in rural Englandshire.
It is why ERG need to be put back in their box. TM deal or amended is my favoured option, othrrwise remain even though that is going to be so divisive
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
I saw the ship being made ready in Dublin. As I said, I don't know what proportion of traffic it could take, nor whether it's a realistic long-term proposition or simply a precaution in case no deal brings cross-channel traffic to a halt.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
Not a huge amount though
Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
More of a problem for Ireland?
Logically there must be the same absolute impact on revenue cross-channel (assuming the Ireland-UK lorries continue regardless), even if a smaller proportion of total traffic.
More people (trips) visit Ireland than travel overseas from Ireland. How this translates into ferry travel in each direction I have no idea.
34% of plane take offs in Ireland land in the UK. Why take the ferry when cheapo airline will fly you for 9 euros.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
Not a huge amount though
Freight is the bread and butter for the Irish sea crossings; I doubt they are viable with passengers only, outside the holiday period.
More of a problem for Ireland?
Logically there must be the same absolute impact on revenue cross-channel (assuming the Ireland-UK lorries continue regardless), even if a smaller proportion of total traffic.
More people (trips) visit Ireland than travel overseas from Ireland. How this translates into ferry travel in each direction I have no idea.
34% of plane take offs in Ireland land in the UK. Why take the ferry when cheapo airline will fly you for 9 euros.
You'd have to ask the three and a half million people (trips) each year who do.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
Sir John Redwood is a Fellow of All Souls, which suggests he's not short of a braincell or two!
OK. Churlish not to admit him then. Sir John, you're in.
He strikes me as one of those people who are intensely clever but who has come adrift from what for want of a better word we can call reality.
One of my heroes, the late Bobby Fischer, was a par excellence example of that.
In fact, if Redwood's obsession was chess rather than crashing out of Europe without a deal, he would probably be in my good books.
The way we talk about intelligence is so weird. Does being extremely good at one game but being unable to process day to day reality in a sensible way really count as intelligent?
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Isn't the point of the House of Commons to have ordinary people sitting in it, not just those with IQs of 150?
They may come from "ordinary" backgrounds indeed. However, I prefer to have legislators to be intelligent, so no, they are not meant to be ordinary in that regard. Corbyn is a particularly bad example, as he comes forma non-ordinary background (manor house, prep school, top grammar school) and is intellectually challenged.
150+ IQ would mean around 15,000 eligible adults in the country, it's an extraordinary bar...
My guess is there might be perhaps 1 parliamentarian with such an IQ in the house right now - and they're probably not a household name.
I think Cummings is probably at that level, to be fair.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Little Welshlander?
What is the point in Brexit if you destroy the union ?
For a subset of leavers, the disassembly of the UK is not a bug, it's a feature. If (say) you want to convert the UK into a Singapore, then having a malleable and disorganised population helps.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
Analysis suggests Wales was actually marginally less Brexit than you'd expect based on modelling from the age and qualifications of its population.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
How long do you think it takes to cross the Irish Sea, cross Wales and England, and then cross over to Rotterdam?
Yes he is. Unfortunately it is masked by an almost ridiculous amount of smoothness. What a smooth smooth guy that guy is. Which is a problem. You see him on TV and, regardless of the very intelligent things he is no doubt saying, you come away thinking, wow, what a smoothie, handle with care.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Sorry Big_G, but the recreation of Little England is worth any price to the inward looking brigade. The Welsh are simply finding out how "valued" they are to those in rural Englandshire.
It is why ERG need to be put back in their box. TM deal or amended is my favoured option, othrrwise remain even though that is going to be so divisive
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Sorry Big_G, but the recreation of Little England is worth any price to the inward looking brigade. The Welsh are simply finding out how "valued" they are to those in rural Englandshire.
It is why ERG need to be put back in their box. TM deal or amended is my favoured option, othrrwise remain even though that is going to be so divisive
Very divisive.
Yes, we wouldn't want a divisive referendum, only the kind of unifying, healing referendum that Conservative voters voted for in 2015.
And as I stated in the previous post I've yet to see a suggested usage that wouldn't be better served by an agreed upon exchange / registrar. And that's before I talk about the risk of malicious third parties and bugs / social engineering.
Mind you I do seem to be spending my days at the moment explaining to Banks why it's better to trust Microsoft and AWS's security rather than their own.
Bank security is the next scandal - look at all the IT problems RBS, Natwest, TSB and others have had. From my experience most bank IT systems are an absolute nightmare. We are, I fear, far too trusting about waving our phones and cards around in public and not keeping physical records and checking.
Banks generally still have decent IT documentation and processes, but the amount of layers, probably still all with the core banking systems on a mainframe that few of the younger engineers properly understand, mean that there are many nooks and crannies where the written knowledge doesn't quite join up properly. If they've also had a couple of outsource / insource cycles and lost key knowledge through cursory knowledge transfers, the gaps can be quite big.
Thus the siren lure of the new, clean and shiny (or cloudy): but you normally still have to understand a lot of the daft old wiring to successfully design and move to the new and shiny, and testing won't always tell you every last thing. TSB found out the hard way, it probably contributed with Brexit to RBS giving up on their Williams & Glyn project, and Co-op may face / have faced it if they ever try and disentangle food and banking IT at the back end.
Whenever someone gets a big outage, loads of IT engineers go onto The Register and state 'it couldn't happen here', I'm more of the school of 'by the gaps we have closed and a little of the grace of God'.
Both the examples you give were big bang migrations / solutions where the likelihood of all things going correct first time round is minimal.
It's better to go for a far slower step by step approach - which really wasn't an option for the TSB - mind you the Williams and Glyn project shows the poor state of RBS's infrastructure
But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border
The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
the PM is not the U.K.
She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
Neither of us knows that
It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
Why would the ERG agree to pay £39bn for two years as a "vassal state" and no guarantee of a deal to their liking at the end of it when their preferred option of no deal is within reach? It would be a total capitulation from them.
I don’t know what the ERG are so worried the EU will do during those two years that the U.K. couldn’t immediately repeal afterwards, if there were a problem.
It’s not like they’ll immediately legislate for death of the firstborn.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
It is coming though absurd or not G
Morning Malc and hope you had a great birthday
The Dublin - Rotterdam sea route can only replace a small amount of the 85% of freight now going through UK ports and obviously none of the 60% coming here
But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border
The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
the PM is not the U.K.
She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
Neither of us knows that
It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
Why would the ERG agree to pay £39bn for two years as a "vassal state" and no guarantee of a deal to their liking at the end of it when their preferred option of no deal is within reach? It would be a total capitulation from them.
I don’t know what the ERG are so worried the EU will do during those two years that the U.K. couldn’t immediately repeal afterwards, if there were a problem.
It’s not like they’ll immediately legislate for death of the firstborn.
If death of the firstborn were required to secure Brexit, the ERG would see that as an acceptable price to pay.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
Analysis suggests Wales was actually marginally less Brexit than you'd expect based on modelling from the age and qualifications of its population.
But rather more Brexit than you would expect in a region heavily supported by EU subsidies.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
Does the U.K. get any value from acting as a transhipping route for Irish trucks?
Besides the odd cup of coffee?
Otherwise it’s congestion, pollution and wear & tear on the roads
Employment in the ports, I guess.
It keeps the ferry companies going, and hence a regular service for passengers to Ireland, and presumably the same for cross-Channel. Toll income on the M6 and Dartford crossing. Some income for service stations and fuel stops.
When I was in Dublin a couple of weeks back they were preparing a ship to run Dublin-Dunkirk and Rotterdam. But I doubt one ship can take the volumes, given the length of the voyage.
Really? I get the importance of trucking but given the relative size of the U.K. and Irish economy we’d have most of the capacity (and employment @Benpointer ) without them
85% of Irish freight use UK ports with 60% remaining in the UK
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
It is coming though absurd or not G
I am surprised that Ryanair has not created an airfreight division for fast moving light cargo
But with the backstop there’s no deal so a hard border
The EU’s time would be better spent looking for a solution which might not be 100% perfect but would get us there and be improved on over time
The UK has already agreed a deal with the backstop. The reasons it can't get through parliament are many and varied.
the PM is not the U.K.
She needs to get Parliament’s ratification
Removing the backstop doesn't secure a parliamentary majority.
Neither of us knows that
It gets the ERG and DUP and I double that Grieve will want to be responsible for No Deal. (This is obviously an opinion not a fact)
Why would the ERG agree to pay £39bn for two years as a "vassal state" and no guarantee of a deal to their liking at the end of it when their preferred option of no deal is within reach? It would be a total capitulation from them.
I don’t know what the ERG are so worried the EU will do during those two years that the U.K. couldn’t immediately repeal afterwards, if there were a problem.
It’s not like they’ll immediately legislate for death of the firstborn.
If death of the firstborn were required to secure Brexit, the ERG would see that as an acceptable price to pay.
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Marc Francois is even worse
I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
Andrew Bridgen.
JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.
There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?
Gove. Hannah (with reservations). Carswell. Cummings (again with reservations). Matthew Eliott (will have to reread Tim Shipman to check: I think he's mentioned). Farage.
Please stop thinking I'm stupid enough to think the opposition is stupid.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
Analysis suggests Wales was actually marginally less Brexit than you'd expect based on modelling from the age and qualifications of its population.
But rather more Brexit than you would expect in a region heavily supported by EU subsidies.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
"Useful Idiots" as Vladimir Ilyich once put it ...
If they are going to cancel Brexit - and they are - I wish they'd just get on with it.
Indeed. The pretence from some that is not the aim is insulting and they're trying to walk us into it slowly rather than do it. It's on our interests now, so no need to delay.
There isn't a plot to cancel Brexit, Mrs May genuinely wants to provide it. The problem for Brexiteers is that reality is intervening,
May wants Brexit, parliament does not, that is very apparent but barely a handful are brave enough to admit. Hence talk of delays which will become deferral which will become cancellation. We might as well skip to the end.
Clarke, Hammond, Rudd, Gauke could all resign if prevented from voting for the amendment to extend Article 50 if no Deal reached by the middle of next month
Prominent Leavers divide by and large into three categories: the deranged, the dishonest and the dim. Two out of those three categories include some very smart people.
A rather cross woman on R4 just now who has just had her holiday booking with Brittany Ferries cancelled because the government has commandeered the space for transport of medicines.
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
Analysis suggests Wales was actually marginally less Brexit than you'd expect based on modelling from the age and qualifications of its population.
But rather more Brexit than you would expect in a region heavily supported by EU subsidies.
Perhaps they recognised that those subsidies were just their own tax money being laundered by Brussels and sent back to them.
That is why I think the Pause button should be pushed while we do some hard thinking.
What makes you think that Mrs May, if given a pause, would spend it doing hard thinking, rather than running the clock down to the end of the pause?
Well exactly. Her and others. A pause is just an argument for cancellation. There are arguments for that so make those directly. It's fundamentally dishonest.
Time is needed to prepare after a decision but we've had plenty of time for a decision, there's no reason to think more will help.
Spent a large amount of time yesterday in the car and had the dubious privilege to listen to Nadine Dorries on R4. How the heck did someone so thick get into parliament? She makes Corbyn sound like an intellectual colossus, and that is saying something. With people like her in the legislature it is little surprise we are where we are
Marc Francois is even worse
I don't think I have had the pleasure of hearing him speak. If he is even worse than Nadine I am actually looking forward to it. I have often been accused of being prejudiced for calling members of the ERG stupid, but Nadine certainly didn't disabuse me of my strongly held belief that they really are very thick indeed.
Andrew Bridgen.
JR-M is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. Owen Paterson: dim. IDS: also dim.
There are a lot of empty vessels in Parliament and a lot of sound.
My view too. I am just a remoaner though, so my ability to spot a thicky clearly doesn't count.
Which Brexit supporting MPs do Remainer PB posters think are bright?
Gove. Hannah (with reservations). Carswell. Cummings (again with reservations). Matthew Eliott (will have to reread Tim Shipman to check: I think he's mentioned). Farage.
Please stop thinking I'm stupid enough to think the opposition is stupid.
A rather cross woman on R4 just now who has just had her holiday booking with Brittany Ferries cancelled because the government has commandeered the space for transport of medicines.
Prominent Leavers divide by and large into three categories: the deranged, the dishonest and the dim. Two out of those three categories include some very smart people.
One of the head remainers hits all 3 categories - Anna soubry .
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Not to mention the 'no' to a tidal barrage.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is. Which isn't much of a policy.
Wales voted overwhelming for Brexit though, did it not?
"Useful Idiots" as Vladimir Ilyich once put it ...
It's not a hard Irish border - its an EU-Uk border.
Irish exporters will face two of these as they use our motorway network as a cheap, fast land bridge.
One as they enter Wales and another at Calais.
With a bit of luck they will take their trucks to the continent via an alternative route.
You are actively wanting to devastate Holyhead and this on top of the suspension of the nuclear power station.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
Little Welshlander?
What is the point in Brexit if you destroy the union ?
For a subset of leavers, the disassembly of the UK is not a bug, it's a feature. If (say) you want to convert the UK into a Singapore, then having a malleable and disorganised population helps.
I am not interested in the Singapore on Sea idea but I do think the breakup of the Union is a benefit rather than a flaw in Brexit. Of course this is based on my own personal view of countries and self determination so I don't expect it to be a popular view and understand why others feel differently.
Comments
1) Actually exists
2) Has a clearly defined meaning so you can actually implement it
If there was a general election in between and Labour wins it then it looks like Corbyn's going to run on renegotiation+referendum, so the Remain option would be a Cameronized version of May-Barnier.
My guess is there might be perhaps 1 parliamentarian with such an IQ in the house right now - and they're probably not a household name.
No deal is not remotely worth this price
The EU should say that if Britain remained it could do so on the basis of the Cameron deal (opt out from political union etc).
I know, I know: un chat among les pigeons, won’t ever happen, etc But might break the logjam and make some think again.....
Anyway, till later. Have fun!
More people (trips) visit Ireland than travel overseas from Ireland. How this translates into ferry travel in each direction I have no idea.
The idea a Dublin - Rotterdam sea route taking nearly 3 days sailing to replace the UK land bridge is absurd
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1087677235526582272
He strikes me as one of those people who are intensely clever but who has come adrift from what for want of a better word we can call reality.
One of my heroes, the late Bobby Fischer, was a par excellence example of that.
In fact, if Redwood's obsession was chess rather than crashing out of Europe without a deal, he would probably be in my good books.
So far, this government's only positive contribution towards Wales seems to be pointing out how poor the Labour administration is.
Which isn't much of a policy.
Although as a concept it's still wrong.
It's better to go for a far slower step by step approach - which really wasn't an option for the TSB - mind you the Williams and Glyn project shows the poor state of RBS's infrastructure
It’s not like they’ll immediately legislate for death of the firstborn.
Cameron's deal was the one thing explicitly rejected in the referendum.
People can read whatever the prefer into it. Stupid!
Leavers would never accept it either because they’d suspect (probably rightly) that the pause button would stay depressed for about 30-40 years.
The Dublin - Rotterdam sea route can only replace a small amount of the 85% of freight now going through UK ports and obviously none of the 60% coming here
We need a deal or remain pretty quickly
The poorest will suffer most.
Williamson is another deluded fool.
Please stop thinking I'm stupid enough to think the opposition is stupid.
This explains it quite well.
Time is needed to prepare after a decision but we've had plenty of time for a decision, there's no reason to think more will help.