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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This could be right – Corbyn blocking moves for a second referendum triggering more MPs going

Labour sources think crunch point for several other Labour MPs considering resigning the whip will be whether or not Corbyn accepts Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson amendment on Feb 27 calling for public vote on May’s deal, modelled on Good Friday Agreement referendum

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FrancisUrquhart

First...like chuka off a train when he hears it’s going to Swindon.

Fenster

On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

AlastairMeeks

Party affiliations have loosened to the extent that stepping across to a new grouping seems much less remarkable than it would have done even a few years ago.

El_Capitano

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Sandpit

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP.

Philip_Thompson

Fenster said:

On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

It's odd to say the least.

RobD

It seems both parties have gone deselection-crazy.

Black_Rook

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

OldKingCole

Black_Rook said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

There are more LD MP's.
Seventh.

FrancisUrquhart

Sandpit said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP.

And Sinn Fein....

TudorRose

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Black_Rook

I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?

Nigelb

And MPs going will harden Corbyn's resolve...

RobD

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Sounds as though that’s the name of the party. Maybe a case of upper/lower case “i”.

Big_G_NorthWales

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

FrancisUrquhart

OldKingCole said:

Black_Rook said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

There are more LD MP's.
Seventh.

How did we all forget about the Lib Dem’s?

Pulpstar

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

May's Tories
Labour
SNP
Baker/Mogg's ERG...
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

TudorRose

RobD said:

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Sounds as though that’s the name of the party. Maybe a case of upper/lower case “i”.

I think they could be the UK Independents Party....

Nigelb

Black_Rook said:

I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?

I think the aim is indeed to 'form a proper party', but they likely want to see who else might be up for the enterprise before they determine its boundaries.

RobD

Pulpstar said:

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

Tories
Labour
SNP
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

Speaker?

FrancisUrquhart

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

TudorRose

Pulpstar said:

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

Tories
Labour
SNP
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

Speaker?

dyedwoolie

Black_Rook said:

I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?

They appear to ge going for a bottom up grass roots type arrangement, the party will form around the support after input from backers etc. There is a possible market for branding as 'people taking back politics' and running as NOTA/peoples candidates

FrancisUrquhart

RobD said:

Pulpstar said:

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

Tories
Labour
SNP
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

Speaker?

He is surely a tigger?

Pulpstar

TudorRose said:

Pulpstar said:

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

Tories
Labour
SNP
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

Speaker?

Nominally a Tory... You could stick the speakers as equal to Plaid as a group though seeing as there are 4 of them.

malcolmg

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

JohnWheatley

Deep down they want the Party to change so they can go back ultimately. Gapes is about as Labour to the core as it is possible to be. It must have hurt him terribly.

On Woolaston, I think she would have a sporting chance to hold the seat as an indie.

All eyes on the Labour candidate for Newport....

JosiasJessop

I have often said that anyone putting themselves forward to be an MP has a bravery (or foolhardishness?) that I lack. They can get some fairly horrendous treatment from the public and press.

Therefore my first reaction to the news was how brave these seven people are. They are going to have the forces of hell thrown at them - and it's not as if Labour doesn't have a history of that.

GIN1138

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Big_G_NorthWales

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

RobD

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days

El_Capitano

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.

dyedwoolie

Umuna clearly thinks Macron is the template but Macron got bought by L'Establishment, hence the yellow vests, tiggers need to be genuine localist old style liberals

FrancisUrquhart

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.

Big_G_NorthWales

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.

Alleged

SandyRentool

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.

malcolmg

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days

Not if you have more than two braincells Rob. Shows how stupid and how little knowledge of politics outside the M25 some idiots on here have. Donkeys galore.

Pulpstar

How many take the ERG whip these days ? Are they bigger or smaller than the SNP.

Black_Rook

OldKingCole said:

Black_Rook said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

There are more LD MP's.
Seventh.

***BR pedantry alert!***

Con 1st
Lab 2nd
SNP 3rd
LD 4th
DUP 5th
Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

***Pedantry ends***

Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.

dyedwoolie

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think

MikeSmithson

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Why should they? They were elected as individuals.

malcolmg

El_Capitano said:

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.

Put on the big hat and go sit in the corner

FrancisUrquhart

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.

Alleged

Well yes, he is being investigated...but he claims it is politically motivated. Even if it isn’t true, I am not sure the tiggers want to be bogged down with it (especially after in tinge-gate) at the moment.

RobD

SandyRentool said:

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.

You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?

AndyJS

edit

rottenborough

Wasn't the good doctor actually selected on an open primary?

How can a few members of the local association deselect her?

Danny565

dyedwoolie said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think

I dunno, I think Frank might give it a go as an actual independent candidate (and probably would come a lot closer to defending his seat than today's bunch of no-marks).

GIN1138

malcolmg said:

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days

Not if you have more than two braincells Rob. Shows how stupid and how little knowledge of politics outside the M25 some idiots on here have. Donkeys galore.

Evening Malc.

Are you turned on by Chuka's new political force?

twistedfirestopper3

I think that ultimately, the tiggers will want Corbyn to fall so that they can be welcomed back into the Labour fold. At the moment, they are a bit of a one trick pony- antibrexit- so there is only a finite number of voters they can attract-leavers ain't gonna be interested. It's too early to talk of new parties being formed. Maybe affer March 29th, we'll have more idea.

El_Capitano

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

malcolmg said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.

Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.

Put on the big hat and go sit in the corner

(full stop)

To be honest I wish we had a party in England even halfway as competent as the SNP, but hey ho. I did display an SNP poster in my window at GE 2015 purely to troll the local Tories. Isabel Oakeshott tweeted a picture of it with the caption "Spotted in David Cameron's constituency" and the Cybernats of Twitter were delighted.

Black_Rook

Pulpstar said:

How many take the ERG whip these days ? Are they bigger or smaller than the SNP.

The ERG contingent certainly outnumber that of the SNP, but they don't count as a separate party.

Yet.

SandyRentool

RobD said:

SandyRentool said:

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.

You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?

I would describe them as Social Democrats.

Pulpstar

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Why should they? They were elected as individuals.

Lol they all know full well they wouldn't get in without the rose next to their name on the ballot paper. Same for Stephen Lloyd (yellow bird) or Frank Field running as independents too.

FrancisUrquhart

Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.

dyedwoolie

Danny565 said:

dyedwoolie said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.

Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible

Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think

I dunno, I think Frank might give it a go as an actual independent candidate (and probably would come a lot closer to defending his seat than today's bunch of no-marks).

Or let the Tories through the middle in a genuine 'Tories gain birkenhead' moment

GIN1138

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Why should they? They were elected as individuals.

Just asking the question...

MaxPB

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

AramintaMoonbeamQC

Black_Rook said:

OldKingCole said:

Black_Rook said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

There are more LD MP's.
Seventh.

***BR pedantry alert!***

Con 1st
Lab 2nd
SNP 3rd
LD 4th
DUP 5th
Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

***Pedantry ends***

Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.

We're going to need a decent pun name for this lot - SDP 2:Electric Boogaloo isn't going to cut it.

MaxPB

twistedfirestopper3 said:

I think that ultimately, the tiggers will want Corbyn to fall so that they can be welcomed back into the Labour fold. At the moment, they are a bit of a one trick pony- antibrexit- so there is only a finite number of voters they can attract-leavers ain't gonna be interested. It's too early to talk of new parties being formed. Maybe affer March 29th, we'll have more idea.

I don't think they can go back now even if Corbyn falls. The backstabber always needs to dig two (or 7 in this case) graves.

Endillion

SandyRentool said:

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.

According to my Twitter feed, there are two extraneous letters in your post.

RobD

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

Pulpstar

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Why should they? They were elected as individuals.

Lol they all know full well they wouldn't get in without the rose next to their name on the ballot paper. Same for Stephen Lloyd (yellow bird) or Frank Field running as independents too.

Although Zac did nearly hold as an independent, though I expect the chances of Corbyn not sticking up an official Labour candidate against any of this lot are between nought and zero.

Theuniondivvie

Honda first on BBC news at 6.

RobD

SandyRentool said:

RobD said:

SandyRentool said:

TudorRose said:

Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.

You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?

I would describe them as Social Democrats.

Typical non-denial denial.

MaxPB

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

williamglenn

Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

— Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

— We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

FrancisUrquhart

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

DonTsInferno_

This morning when I woke up I had never heard of Angela Smith MP. By this evening I have learned...

She was elected by promising voters her party wouldn’t win

She has resigned from the party because she thinks it’s racist, then made the most racist comment ever on the BBC’s new lunchtime show

She represents a constituency who voted Leave yet criticises her old party for enabling Brexit

I think she’s right and politics is broken!

MaxPB

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.

twistedfirestopper3

FrancisUrquhart said:

Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.

I'd have thought old Tone himself would be jizzing his pants as he pulled a few million quid of his hard earned out of his pocket to give 'em.

FrancisUrquhart

twistedfirestopper3 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.

I'd have thought old Tone himself would be jizzing his pants as he pulled a few million quid of his hard earned out of his pocket to give 'em.

I don’t know, I get the feeling tone is the kind of guy happy to spend other people’s money but rather tight with his own....cough network of private companies, cough tax efficiency cough. And hence why he is absolutely loaded.

FrancisUrquhart

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.

It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.

RobD

williamglenn said:

Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

— Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

— We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

35 years is a long time

MaxPB

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.

It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.

Indeed. I think it's a first that a group of MPs have declared themselves as being controlled by a private company rather than a political party. It's definitely a grey area that needs clarification very fast before we end up in a similar situation to the US where huge companies buy off politicians completely through dodgy SuperPACs.

RobD

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Very odd.

twistedfirestopper3

williamglenn said:

Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

— Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

— We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

In 1982, the world was my lobster. A lot has happened since then.

Floater

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Only certain "people's votes" required it seems.

Pulpstar

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.

It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.

Indeed. I think it's a first that a group of MPs have declared themselves as being controlled by a private company rather than a political party. It's definitely a grey area that needs clarification very fast before we end up in a similar situation to the US where huge companies buy off politicians completely through dodgy SuperPACs.

Max, probably best to fire off an enquiry/complaint to the electoral commission about it. CC your local MP in too perhaps (No idea who that is)

AlastairMeeks

Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

kyf_100

GIN1138 said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

Any more Labrexit news?

Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election?

Why should they? They were elected as individuals.

Just asking the question...

I think the people have the right to a second vote, now all the facts are available... the voters simply weren't informed enough at the time about what voting for their MP would actually entail... now all the facts are available, what's wrong with demanding a second vote?

AnotherEngineer

williamglenn said:

Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

— Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

— We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

Unfortunately the EC no longer exists. If it did...then I'd bet we would still be members.

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

I trust you are equally curious.

rawzer

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MaxPB said:

RobD said:

MaxPB said:

I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?

No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.

Will they be allowed to do that long term?

I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.

Information about its create, its ownership, its articles of association etc etc is available in about 30 seconds from Companies House - they will presumably be subject to exactly the same rules as any other Company LImited by Guarantee? If they form a political party then they will be subject to the relevant rules for political parties. Not sure whats at all odd about this - they have to have a trading entity to buy stuff (like a website) and take in stuff (like donations)

MaxPB

AlastairMeeks said:

Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

Tonight's irony: Remainers that have been agitating about where the not Leave campaign's money came from completely unbothered by the new group's opaque set up.

Pulpstar

AlastairMeeks said:

Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

Isn't one of the lessons from the referendum that it is best to clarify stuff like this early on (Which noone did for really for the leave campaigns) rather than leave unresolved and pproach it when its all too late ?

HYUFD

I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May

AlastairMeeks

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

I trust you are equally curious.

I’m curious in proportion to the money. So much more curious about where all that opaque money for Leave came from. I trust you are too.

FrancisUrquhart

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

Black_Rook

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Black_Rook said:

OldKingCole said:

Black_Rook said:

El_Capitano said:

Fourth like the Independent Group.

Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

And the DUP. Sixth.

There are more LD MP's.
Seventh.

***BR pedantry alert!***

Con 1st
Lab 2nd
SNP 3rd
LD 4th
DUP 5th
Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

***Pedantry ends***

Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.

We're going to need a decent pun name for this lot - SDP 2:Electric Boogaloo isn't going to cut it.

The Spliterati?

Fishing

JosiasJessop said:

I have often said that anyone putting themselves forward to be an MP has a bravery (or foolhardishness?) that I lack. They can get some fairly horrendous treatment from the public and press.

Try standing for PM. Or POTUS ...

MaxPB

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

But why not just register a political party?

_Anazina_

Philip_Thompson said:

Fenster said:

On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

It's odd to say the least.

Philip_Thompson said:

Fenster said:

On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

It's odd to say the least.

.

RobD said:

Pulpstar said:

I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

Tories
Labour
SNP
Lib Dems
DUP
Sinn Fein
Tiggers
Plaid
Non tigger Ex Labour independents
Ex Lib Dems
Green

Speaker?

Lady Hermon

FrancisUrquhart

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

But why not just register a political party?

I am not sure they even know if they are going to be a political party. It was all very wishy washy. Remember maomentum is a private company for collecting data, perhaps they are aping that approach.

Pulpstar

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

Yes so best to pin it all down whilst the foal is still learning to stand up in its stable. Meanwhile the leave stallion has galloped about 20 races since it bolted.

_Anazina_

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

But why not just register a political party?

Plenty of spare addresses on the Finchley Road

HYUFD

Liam Fox flew to Jerusalem today to sign a deal to roll over the existing EU Israel trade agreement for the UK after Brexit

El_Capitano

https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1097559955245359108

Essexit

HYUFD said:

I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May

How can they field 200 candidates when we only have 70 something seats?

dyedwoolie

HYUFD said:

I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May

We only send 73 members fo Europe, what are the other 127 candidates standing for?

MaxPB

Pulpstar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

Yes so best to pin it all down whilst the foal is still learning to stand up in its stable. Meanwhile the leave stallion has galloped about 20 races since it bolted.

Indeed. In theory a new party could effectively accept a donation from the company and then not declare where the cash originated as the company will just be declaring political donations as income for services rendered.