BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Looks like the Lancet are releasing a detailed analysis of the UK medical impact of a no deal Brexit at midnight. Indications that it's very damning and presumably will put even more pressure for no deal to be taken off the table asap.
And so we start to reach the Brexit endgame, as people finally start to shift positions. Labour are almost to the point of backing Remain again. The Tories, well, still split over no deal. But there's movement at least, which is more than has happened in 2 months.
Most important thing is the Tiggers have been successful but also stopped dead in their tracks. What remainer Lab MP would desert now, after Corbyn has, to some extent, gotten on board? That'd be to tell him to back away from a referendum. He can do anything he wants now, they are his to toy with. Unless, maybe, they can just shortcut things and find accommodation with the LDs, and soon.
The poll found the Tories on 36 per cent, down two points from last week and Labour on 23 per cent, down three points. However, TIG received a four-point boost, at 18 per cent, with the Lib Dems on 6 per cent, down one.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
Shows Corbyn is absolute toast if he plays games on his referendum pledge or now claims a technical issue with offering one. He has been outplayed by some of his colleagues here.
Amazing that there can be 18% (of a sample, admittedly) wishing to vote for the nebulous concept of not-Labour-or-Conservative-not-even-a-party-yet. I mean that's a damning indictment of where we've got to under Brexit so far.
Amazing that there can be 18% (of a sample, admittedly) wishing to vote for the nebulous concept of not-Labour-or-Conservative-not-even-a-party-yet. I mean that's a damning indictment of where we've got to under Brexit so far.
Electoral calculas including lib dems and tigs at 24% gives a conservative majority of 42
Corbyn's genius is to decide he's in favour of a referendum a few days after he loses a group of MPs who left mainly because he wasn't in favour of holding another referendum.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
Presumably the EU, like most second referendum supporters, is utterly confident that we would vote to remain, because we have changed our minds after all, as we have been told many times, and it would be insane not to. So I would think they would gladly grant an extension for a referendum whatever the question, since they think they know the outcome anyway.
MPs should really quit more often. Something actually happens when you do.
Indeed. Ok, there is a reason we don't want utter chaos and lack of staying power all the time, but when it is already chaos and practically a time loop to boot, it actually achieves things.
How are they doing vs the early days of the SDP? Obviously it's all rather strange because how could someone even answer the question of voting for a party with no idea what it would actually want to do, but for now at least the Tiggers seem to be doing ok to grab some attention. Can they keep it up sans defections and now that Labour, in headline at least, have shot their fox?
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
Tusk seemed very open today in his speech to a ‘faffing about’ extension. I heard a figure of 21 months being bandied about, can’t remember source. Smart play by the EU, as they know support for Brexit is only going one way - down. Every month that goes by, it gets weaker.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
1) Yes 2) Possibly, but if it's Deal vs Remain then we're good, and that's the one that sounds like it might have the votes
It puts the Tories on 41, unchanged since last week, Labour on 30 per cent, down three points, the Lib Dems on 10 per cent and rest on 19 per cent. Asked to choose who would be the best prime minister, 39 per cent said Theresa May, down one point, while Mr Corbyn was on 16 per cent, down three, with 45 per cent unsure or refusing to answer. Only 37 per cent of the people who voted Labour in 2017 said Mr Corbyn would be the best prime minister, with 12 per cent picking Mrs May and 52 per cent unsure or refusing to say.
No doubt helped focus Corbynite minds to back EUref2, if we end up not leaving the EU on schedule and Brexit is delayed the beneficiaries may end up being Farage's Brexit Party rather than TIG as would have been the case had we headed for No Deal and Corbyn still refused to back EUref2.
In the last 24 hours the anger has started to shift from Remainers to Leavers
I wonder if there are any differences in score depending on the way they are presented, although YouGov usually has the lowest Labour score so maybe it also usually has the highest TIG score.. based on 2 polls.
Also do we have a poll with just the actual parties in it?
Corbyn's genius is to decide he's in favour of a referendum a few days after he loses a group of MPs who left mainly because he wasn't in favour of holding another referendum.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
If she does formally rule out No Deal, her deal fails in Parliament but then the EU (or, rather, one country) refuse to extend, doesn't that lead us to Revoke as the only standing option.
I wonder if there are any differences in score depending on the way they are presented, although YouGov usually has the lowest Labour score so maybe it also usually has the highest TIG score.. based on 2 polls.
Also do we have a poll with just the actual parties in it?
I wonder if there are any differences in score depending on the way they are presented, although YouGov usually has the lowest Labour score so maybe it also usually has the highest TIG score.. based on 2 polls.
Also do we have a poll with just the actual parties in it?
It puts the Tories on 41, unchanged since last week, Labour on 30 per cent, down three points, the Lib Dems on 10 per cent and rest on 19 per cent. Asked to choose who would be the best prime minister, 39 per cent said Theresa May, down one point, while Mr Corbyn was on 16 per cent, down three, with 45 per cent unsure or refusing to answer. Only 37 per cent of the people who voted Labour in 2017 said Mr Corbyn would be the best prime minister, with 12 per cent picking Mrs May and 52 per cent unsure or refusing to say.
11% lead.
Have we had a double digit lead for anyone since the 2017 GE ?
It puts the Tories on 41, unchanged since last week, Labour on 30 per cent, down three points, the Lib Dems on 10 per cent and rest on 19 per cent. Asked to choose who would be the best prime minister, 39 per cent said Theresa May, down one point, while Mr Corbyn was on 16 per cent, down three, with 45 per cent unsure or refusing to answer. Only 37 per cent of the people who voted Labour in 2017 said Mr Corbyn would be the best prime minister, with 12 per cent picking Mrs May and 52 per cent unsure or refusing to say.
11% lead.
Have we had a double digit lead for anyone since the 2017 GE ?
Last double digit lead was, er, Wednesday 7th June 2017...
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
If she does formally rule out No Deal, her deal fails in Parliament but then the EU (or, rather, one country) refuse to extend, doesn't that lead us to Revoke as the only standing option.
Now, that WOULD be popcorn politics.
If the EU refused extension she would u turn again as revoke would destroy the Tory party , she would pin it on the EU who were being unreasonable and go to country on basis of no deal
Corbyn's genius is to decide he's in favour of a referendum a few days after he loses a group of MPs who left mainly because he wasn't in favour of holding another referendum.
I think the factor you haven't considered there is getting rid of those MPs in the first place is a good thing.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
So we've got the following labour parties as it stands from the 17 election Labour Corbyn branch Ex labour tiggers Labour brexiteers Labour elementaries under Watson Independent ex labour non tigger Labour prison branch
Great timing on the day that Corbyn finally pleased so many of his MPs. You'd think on numbers like that members and activists would be leaving in droves. I look forward to the next poll from the same company.
I wonder if there are any differences in score depending on the way they are presented, although YouGov usually has the lowest Labour score so maybe it also usually has the highest TIG score.. based on 2 polls.
Also do we have a poll with just the actual parties in it?
We do, Tories 11% ahead, see my post at 10.24pm
In my defence it was a long post.
Started typing when it wasn't there. Thanks!
Still YouGov with a decent difference from other polls in Labour score and less reliably based on just the 2 polls, with the highest TIG scores. Whether they are right and others wrong or the other way around is another question though.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
Kinnock is fine with a #peoplesvote, but putting on a show for his constituents, perhaps it is Corbyn removing his nuts from the fire which really appals.
If nothing else it's interesting watching the Conservatives, Labour, British politics in general, increasingly crack under the stress applied by Brexit. The whole system appears to be breaking into fragments.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
Tusk seemed very open today in his speech to a ‘faffing about’ extension. I heard a figure of 21 months being bandied about, can’t remember source. Smart play by the EU, as they know support for Brexit is only going one way - down. Every month that goes by, it gets weaker.
Support for Brexit degrades at approximately 1 point every 4 months due to demographic changes.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
If she does formally rule out No Deal, her deal fails in Parliament but then the EU (or, rather, one country) refuse to extend, doesn't that lead us to Revoke as the only standing option.
Now, that WOULD be popcorn politics.
If the EU refused extension she would u turn again as revoke would destroy the Tory party , she would pin it on the EU who were being unreasonable and go to country on basis of no deal
That'd be a bit like squabbling about who left the binoculars behind in Southampton while trying to maintain your balance on Collapsible B.
How many Farage party candidates will we see in local and bye elections now ? Plus of course in this Mays euro elections ..
Who cares? Farage and his moronic nationalist brethren are perennial losers. They might attract some gammonite protest votes from time to time, but one would be an idiot to fear them.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
Kinnock is fine with a #peoplesvote, but putting on a show for his constituents, perhaps it is Corbyn removing his nuts from the fire which really appals.
Great timing on the day that Corbyn finally pleased so many of his MPs. You'd think on numbers like that members and activists would be leaving in droves. I look forward to the next poll from the same company.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
Kinnock is fine with a #peoplesvote, but putting on a show for his constituents, perhaps it is Corbyn removing his nuts from the fire which really appals.
He was not fine on the news tonight
I watched it. He was fine, but putting on his best disappointed face.
All this excitable talk about another referendum ignores one crucial fact. Will the EU agree to an extension and won’t this depend on what the question is?
Tusk seemed very open today in his speech to a ‘faffing about’ extension. I heard a figure of 21 months being bandied about, can’t remember source. Smart play by the EU, as they know support for Brexit is only going one way - down. Every month that goes by, it gets weaker.
Support for Brexit degrades at approximately 1 point every 4 months due to demographic changes.
Top marks to Guardian's Martin Kettle methinks. He predicted Labour would end up here, eventually, months and months ago iirc.
But he's still pissing about as to what kind of referendum he will offer, and when
The Magical Gramps has, finally and royally, fucked up, by making a screeching U-turn which will not satisfy Remainers but WILL will hack off Leavers, meanwhile appearing foolish, confused and dithering to everyone else.
Corbyn's decline and fall might be quite swift from here. Labour will not allow themselves to disintegrate further. The hard left, especially, can see their hopes dissolving.
I picture McDonnell, Thornberry, Lansman et al wielding the knife to slay the vest-wearer. Who will defend him?
Corbyn needs to confirm exactly his proposition because I am confused and not at all sure this is the referendum his remainers want
It's not possible to hold this referendum before March 29th. If an extension is not sorted out in time, (and we only have 32 days 20 minutes left) it will not happen.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
Kinnock is fine with a #peoplesvote, but putting on a show for his constituents, perhaps it is Corbyn removing his nuts from the fire which really appals.
He was not fine on the news tonight
I understand why you are panicking Big G. You are a one nation Tory. You believe and you care.
this suspicion the age of one nation Tory, just to the right economically culturally to the left embracing social liberalism is coming to an end. Why? Listening to the Conservative Party Education Minister on R4 this morning, it seems wrong the Conservatives running rough shod over parents concerns on their primary child’s teaching on sexual and religious matters. Such a thing as Conservatism so progressive, utilitarian and social liberal has surely had its day, it is due time for a reformation, values renewal.
Farage calls it realignment. And he’s right. His Brexit party will destroy the Tories if brexit doesn’t happen.
BBC news confirming confusion over Corbyn's position which seems he will only back his deal (which is not available) and then put it to a referendum
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
Incredible decision by Corbyn tonight, especially in light of the YouGov Welsh poll earlier today, no wonder Stephen Kinnock is dismayed.
Kinnock is fine with a #peoplesvote, but putting on a show for his constituents, perhaps it is Corbyn removing his nuts from the fire which really appals.
He was not fine on the news tonight
I watched it. He was fine, but putting on his best disappointed face.
Labour are already in trouble in Wales and this is bad news for Kinnock, not matter what you say
Amazed that Con vote is holding up - a new Brexit party could make Merry hell right now.
Why are you amazed? In 1983 the Tory share only dropped by 1.5% despite the surge for the SDP/Alliance to 26% even though the party was hoping to take almost as many votes from the Conservatives as Labour when they launched.
Corbyn's genius is to decide he's in favour of a referendum a few days after he loses a group of MPs who left mainly because he wasn't in favour of holding another referendum.
So we've got the following labour parties as it stands from the 17 election Labour Corbyn branch Ex labour tiggers Labour brexiteers Labour elementaries under Watson Independent ex labour non tigger Labour prison branch
Lol
Weren't there something like 19 different Communist/left socialist parties registered in the UK at one point?
Comments
He seems to be tying himself in knots.
Stephen Kinnock has just expressed dismay at the thought of a referendum and the BBC said that while he has pleased the remain part of his party, he has not pleased his leaving mps
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1100125897158524931?s=20
Most important thing is the Tiggers have been successful but also stopped dead in their tracks. What remainer Lab MP would desert now, after Corbyn has, to some extent, gotten on board? That'd be to tell him to back away from a referendum. He can do anything he wants now, they are his to toy with. Unless, maybe, they can just shortcut things and find accommodation with the LDs, and soon.
SNAFU
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3c79aaaa-3949-11e9-ac2f-7ff26270aa53
2) Possibly, but if it's Deal vs Remain then we're good, and that's the one that sounds like it might have the votes
It puts the Tories on 41, unchanged since last week, Labour on 30 per cent, down three points, the Lib Dems on 10 per cent and rest on 19 per cent. Asked to choose who would be the best prime minister, 39 per cent said Theresa May, down one point, while Mr Corbyn was on 16 per cent, down three, with 45 per cent unsure or refusing to answer. Only 37 per cent of the people who voted Labour in 2017 said Mr Corbyn would be the best prime minister, with 12 per cent picking Mrs May and 52 per cent unsure or refusing to say.
In the last 24 hours the anger has started to shift from Remainers to Leavers
Clearly Jezza has seen some polling as well.
I wonder if there are any differences in score depending on the way they are presented, although YouGov usually has the lowest Labour score so maybe it also usually has the highest TIG score.. based on 2 polls.
Also do we have a poll with just the actual parties in it?
Always preparing for the last war.
Now, that WOULD be popcorn politics.
Sam Coates Times
Verified account @SamCoatesTimes
5m5 minutes ago
Times / YouGov
Tories take 11 point lead over Labour in latest weekly YouGov poll which shows further decline in Corbyn rating
(Before today’s announcement)
The Times - Poll shows Labour fall as Independent Group rises
The chapter where Tigger enters the story, by visiting Pooh, remains a comedy classic.
https://goo.gl/images/RCpAaz
Have we had a double digit lead for anyone since the 2017 GE ?
https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1100158795894980610?s=21
Labour Corbyn branch
Ex labour tiggers
Labour brexiteers
Labour elementaries under Watson
Independent ex labour non tigger
Labour prison branch
Lol
Started typing when it wasn't there. Thanks!
Still YouGov with a decent difference from other polls in Labour score and less reliably based on just the 2 polls, with the highest TIG scores. Whether they are right and others wrong or the other way around is another question though.
Now is the time!
Anti referendum 36
Though the newest parties in Britain are, according to the Electoral Commission, Gwlad Gwlad, The Compass Party and the Independent Union
Con: 24%
Lab 23%
TIG 14%
Brexit 12%
LD 6%
UKIP 5%
!!
The Magical Gramps has, finally and royally, fucked up, by making a screeching U-turn which will not satisfy Remainers but WILL will hack off Leavers, meanwhile appearing foolish, confused and dithering to everyone else.
Corbyn's decline and fall might be quite swift from here. Labour will not allow themselves to disintegrate further. The hard left, especially, can see their hopes dissolving.
I picture McDonnell, Thornberry, Lansman et al wielding the knife to slay the vest-wearer. Who will defend him?
this suspicion the age of one nation Tory, just to the right economically culturally to the left embracing social liberalism is coming to an end. Why? Listening to the Conservative Party Education Minister on R4 this morning, it seems wrong the Conservatives running rough shod over parents concerns on their primary child’s teaching on sexual and religious matters. Such a thing as Conservatism so progressive, utilitarian and social liberal has surely had its day, it is due time for a reformation, values renewal.
Farage calls it realignment. And he’s right. His Brexit party will destroy the Tories if brexit doesn’t happen.
https://twitter.com/GPW_Portland/status/1100164509745012736
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1100164571254247426