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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there are UK Euro elections in May Farage’s new Brexit party could easily beat UKIP

While all sorts of attention has been given to the splits within the Conservative and Labour parties there has been very little coverage of the fact that UKIP, which won the 2014 UK euro elections, has been totally divided over the past 5 years. Barely a 3rd of 24 UKIP MEPs elected in May 2014 are still within the fold.

Read the full story here

eek

Any Euro elections will be a proxy for the referendum that follows that goes without saying as Euro elections are otherwise low turnout except where local elections are held on the same day.

And yes I can see the Brexit party doing well. I can also see the TIGgers doing very well if they are a party. For Labour and the Tories the result will be dire especially if a Remain party that isn't the Lib Dems stand.

IanB2

First. Oops, second. Falling fast like ukip

Casino_Royale

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

ReggieCide

eek said:

Any Euro elections will be a proxy for the referendum that follows that goes without saying as Euro elections are otherwise low turnout except where local elections are held on the same day.

And yes I can see the Brexit party doing well. I can also see the TIGgers doing very well if they are a party. For Labour and the Tories the result will be dire especially if a Remain party that isn't the Lib Dems stand.

I can't see the todgers doing well

Sean_F

Casino_Royale said:

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

I think Sir Lewis Harcourt may have been worse.

ReggieCide

IanB2 said:

First. Oops, second. Falling fast like ukip

not fast enough to be fair

OblitusSumMe

Farage is box office and will get the BBC airtime advantage over UKIP.

The problem with seeing any EU Parliament elections as a mini-referendum is Labour. Their official policy headline will still be formally for Brexit (albeit a Labour unicorn Brexit) but many of their members and voters will see their support as being for voting Remain in another referendum.

TGOHF

Deal is going to go through before or on the 29th so all a bit moot.

Cyclefree

Casino_Royale said:

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

It is a shame that we don't have the power to surcharge Ministers for their fuck-ups. As well as the Eurotunnel disaster, he managed to ruin the Probation Service as well. In fact, there is nothing he touched at Justice that has not turned out to be an absolute Grade "A*" FUBAR.

Alistair

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1101418537611071488?s=21

Philip_Thompson

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Cyclefree

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Why Grayling has ever been a Minister is a mystery? Why?? He shouldn't be let out of the house without a carer to guide him across the road. Incompetent is too kind a word for him.

ralphmalph

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1101418537611071488?s=21

The real interesting point that is not being made by the tweeters is that the UK is stockpiling but the EU27 are not. So an assumption can be made that the UK is buying a lot of ahead of time from the EU27 but they are not reciprocating. So why are the PMI's for the large EU economies all negative or falling whilst the UK has fallen slightly but still quite solidly positive.

When UK businesses stop stockpiling then the EU27 is going to get hit even more.

I would put forward the theory that for the EU27 now (exception Ireland) when Germany sneezes the rest of the EU gets flu.

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1101418537611071488?s=21

That is just being responsible and not surprising. Indeed it would be very worrying if they were no stockpiling

Anorak

OblitusSumMe said:

Farage is box office and will get the BBC airtime advantage over UKIP.

The problem with seeing any EU Parliament elections as a mini-referendum is Labour. Their official policy headline will still be formally for Brexit (albeit a Labour unicorn Brexit) but many of their members and voters will see their support as being for voting Remain in another referendum.

Yes Farage interviews very well, and has [mostly] avoided the taint of the completely bonkers people remaining in UKIP. UKIP are two steps from using banners and large gold eagles, IMO.

Big_G_NorthWales

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

Anorak

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1101418537611071488?s=21

That is just being responsible and not surprising. Indeed it would be very worrying if they were no stockpiling

There are going to be a lot of UK companies facing a cash crisis because of this. Some wont survive.

Anorak

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

SandyRentool

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Did May and Grayling ever go on a motorcycle tour of East Germany together?

Cyclefree

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Grayling exists to make May look good. (Or better than him, anyway.)

We have one of the most useless Cabinets in history. Utterly useless.

Cyclefree

SandyRentool said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Did May and Grayling ever go on a motorcycle tour of East Germany together?

Jeez: that's a mental image we really don't need..........

Anorak

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

OblitusSumMe

The Central England Temperature figures for February have been finalised and the monthly average (for the daily mean) is joint 15th warmest in the 361 year record. On average you would expect one month in twenty-four to be this anomalously warm, or warmer. In the past twelve months three have been that warm (Feb 15th, Dec 15th, Jul 3rd) which is six times the expected rate.

Anorak

SandyRentool said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Did May and Grayling ever go on a motorcycle tour of East Germany together?

And now I need to sandpaper my brain. Thanks.

OldKingCole

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He must know something about May. Like which wheat field she runs in.

Cyclefree

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

1, 5, 3, 4, 2 for me.

Pulpstar

On Grayling...

Thescreamingeagles said:

Backing Chris Grayling as the next Chancellor of the Exchequer at 12/1 looks like a good bet.

Ladbrokes have put back up their market on the next Chancellor of the Exchequer, given recent events whomever becomes Prime Minister will likely be appointing a new Chancellor, although there are stories that were Michael Gove to become Prime Minister, he’d retain George Osborne as Chancellor.

However I’m proceeding on the assumption that Michael Gove won’t be the new Prime Minister, if it is Theresa May then I think backing Chris Grayling at 12/1 is the best option. He’s known Theresa May for a few decades, he’s her campaign manager, and he’s also a Brexiteer, which would allow a fractious party to unite.

OblitusSumMe

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

TOPPING

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

TheJezziah

GammonballRun is trending on twitter.

The internet is just a much more talented and quick version of headline writers from years gone by!

malcolmg

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

Dura_Ace

SandyRentool said:

Did May and Grayling ever go on a motorcycle tour of East Germany together?

Grayling would crash it into a petrol tanker and May would say "Nothing has changed" as the flesh melted from their bones in resulting inferno,

Cyclefree

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

Steve Baker needs to be on the list. And Seamus Milne.

OldKingCole

Pulpstar said:

On Grayling...

Thescreamingeagles said:

Backing Chris Grayling as the next Chancellor of the Exchequer at 12/1 looks like a good bet.

Ladbrokes have put back up their market on the next Chancellor of the Exchequer, given recent events whomever becomes Prime Minister will likely be appointing a new Chancellor, although there are stories that were Michael Gove to become Prime Minister, he’d retain George Osborne as Chancellor.

However I’m proceeding on the assumption that Michael Gove won’t be the new Prime Minister, if it is Theresa May then I think backing Chris Grayling at 12/1 is the best option. He’s known Theresa May for a few decades, he’s her campaign manager, and he’s also a Brexiteer, which would allow a fractious party to unite.

'Kinell. Are you trying to give us nightmares?

MaxPB

Casino_Royale said:

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

Yes. He's a disaster. What's the opposite of the Midas touch?

Cyclefree

OblitusSumMe said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

What do you mean - "not personally involved"? She's the PM. The buck stops with her.

Harris_Tweed

Anorak said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Farage is box office and will get the BBC airtime advantage over UKIP.

The problem with seeing any EU Parliament elections as a mini-referendum is Labour. Their official policy headline will still be formally for Brexit (albeit a Labour unicorn Brexit) but many of their members and voters will see their support as being for voting Remain in another referendum.

Yes Farage interviews very well, and has [mostly] avoided the taint of the completely bonkers people remaining in UKIP. UKIP are two steps from using banners and large gold eagles, IMO.

That'll be a difficult editorial policy question for Ofcom and the BBC in assessing "demonstrable electoral support". From past experience, UKIP would get the nod and a great deal of airtime on the basis of the last EU election (probably tempered by somewhat quieter GE's since). But there'd be a counter-argument from Farage that UKIP's moved a long way since then, and he's the continuity act.

If you accepted that, though, you'd have the same argument from Chukka that he's the true inheritor of the Miliband dynasty!

MikeSmithson

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1101442058655592448

Anorak

Cyclefree said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

Steve Baker needs to be on the list. And Seamus Milne.

I nearly put Seamus on there. But he just didn't meet the 'skin crawl' test, however unpleasant he is.

OldKingCole

Cyclefree said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

What do you mean - "not personally involved"? She's the PM. The buck stops with her.

I suspect, Ms Cyclefree, that the days of 'taking responsibility' when things go wrong are lost in the mists of time.
Sadly.

Morris_Dancer

Between UKIP, I Can't Believe It's Not UKIP, and the Tiggers, could be a bloodbath for the 'big two' parties.

Philip_Thompson

OblitusSumMe said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

Has to be odds-on surely that he won't survive the first reshuffle of a new PM being elected.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Max, point of order: Midas hated turning everything to gold.

Philip_Thompson

Harris_Tweed said:

Anorak said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Farage is box office and will get the BBC airtime advantage over UKIP.

The problem with seeing any EU Parliament elections as a mini-referendum is Labour. Their official policy headline will still be formally for Brexit (albeit a Labour unicorn Brexit) but many of their members and voters will see their support as being for voting Remain in another referendum.

Yes Farage interviews very well, and has [mostly] avoided the taint of the completely bonkers people remaining in UKIP. UKIP are two steps from using banners and large gold eagles, IMO.

That'll be a difficult editorial policy question for Ofcom and the BBC in assessing "demonstrable electoral support". From past experience, UKIP would get the nod and a great deal of airtime on the basis of the last EU election (probably tempered by somewhat quieter GE's since). But there'd be a counter-argument from Farage that UKIP's moved a long way since then, and he's the continuity act.

If you accepted that, though, you'd have the same argument from Chukka that he's the true inheritor of the Miliband dynasty!

That's where opnion polls, local elections and the European Elections [if they happen] will have a role to play.

Dura_Ace

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

4, 4, 4, 4, 4

I like CW.

TrèsDifficile

Anorak said:

Cyclefree said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

Steve Baker needs to be on the list. And Seamus Milne.

I nearly put Seamus on there. But he just didn't meet the 'skin crawl' test, however unpleasant he is.

Seumas

Philip_Thompson

Oh and @Harris_Tweed while Farage would be able to claim [with some basis] inheritance of UKIP's past electoral performance, Chukka couldn't as the current Labour Leader is still the same as the Labour Leader at the last General Election so Miliband is irrelevant.

Anorak

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

williamglenn

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

I saw some comments on the Momentum video on the Rothschilds along the lines of: "But they own all the central banks. Are you saying we can't criticise them because they're Jewish?"

Pulpstar

Cyclefree said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

Steve Baker needs to be on the list. And Seamus Milne.

Boris.

OldKingCole

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Max, point of order: Midas hated turning everything to gold.

While he hated doing it, he did. Is the opposite 'doing a May"?

Philip_Thompson

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Max, point of order: Midas hated turning everything to gold.

Whereas the opposite is that we hate Grayling turning everything to ....

OblitusSumMe

Philip_Thompson said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

Has to be odds-on surely that he won't survive the first reshuffle of a new PM being elected.

I cannot envisage any circumstance in which Chris Grayling remains a Minister once May ceases to be PM.

Even a caretaker PM who sought to change as little as possible would take the opportunity to shuffle him off.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1101456393796808706

Pulpstar

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

I delivered for Clegg at GE17 for a reason !

Verulamius

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1101418537611071488?s=21

How much of a boost to Q1 GDP will this extra stock create?

OblitusSumMe

OldKingCole said:

Cyclefree said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Anorak said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

He benefits from May's patronage, but even here patience must be at its end by now. Surely?

Loyalty is valued particularly highly at this time and Brexit means that political attention moves on from a Minister in trouble. Amber Rudd was only forced to leave the Home Office because otherwise the responsibility for the failings would have fallen at May's door, but as long as May has not been personally involved in Grayling's failures at Justice or Transport he will remain in place.

What do you mean - "not personally involved"? She's the PM. The buck stops with her.

I suspect, Ms Cyclefree, that the days of 'taking responsibility' when things go wrong are lost in the mists of time.
Sadly.

Yes, that is my thinking. Underlings and quangos exist to absorb the responsibility that should reside at a higher level.

eek

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

rottenborough

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1101457880325283841

Ishmael_Z

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1101456393796808706

Does he mean "died", and will he ever learn that if you are explaining a cartoon you are losing?

rottenborough

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It is even worse than that (terrible though the jew-hating is). The root of this is belief in mad conspiracy theories about how the world works and also defending the Leader and the Party in all circumstances no matter how terrible the morals involved are. No personal compromise is too great in order to show support of the leader and his power to revolutionise the UK.

This is Leninism. Pure and simple.

Who knows who the next target will be, especially if they are in government? But whichever group gets targeted (I'd guess journalists, then academics), then all the CLPs will support whatever is being done by these kinds of numbers.

Floater

rottenborough said:

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It is even worse than that (terrible though the jew-hating is). The root of this is belief in mad conspiracy theories about how the world works and also defending the Leader and the Party in all circumstances no matter how terrible the morals involved are. No personal compromise is too great in order to show support of the leader and his power to revolutionise the UK.

This is Leninism. Pure and simple.

Who knows who the next target will be, especially if they are in government? But whichever group gets targeted (I'd guess journalists, then academics), then all the CLPs will support whatever is being done by these kinds of numbers.

Yes - if they get in it will be ugly, very ugly.

Floater

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

They are a vile fucking disgrace is what they are.

OblitusSumMe

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

I don't know. 40 people in each of 500 constituencies is still only 20,000 - a minority among the membership as a whole, but clearly one that is currently intimidating the majority.

I reckon that if they could turf out the ringleaders, maybe a couple of thousand people, then the rest would fall into line in a different environment. If Corbyn stood aside and the central party organisation rallied behind Watson I reckon he could probably purge the ranks and steady the ship, but there's a lot of work to be done.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/socialist_app/status/1100834468774977544

Floater

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/socialist_app/status/1100834468774977544

Arghhhhhhhhh!!!

Brom

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

The answer is always David Lammy

Floater

OblitusSumMe said:

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

I don't know. 40 people in each of 500 constituencies is still only 20,000 - a minority among the membership as a whole, but clearly one that is currently intimidating the majority.

I reckon that if they could turf out the ringleaders, maybe a couple of thousand people, then the rest would fall into line in a different environment. If Corbyn stood aside and the central party organisation rallied behind Watson I reckon he could probably purge the ranks and steady the ship, but there's a lot of work to be done.

If if if

While they dither the virus takes over the host.

Anorak

Floater said:

rottenborough said:

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It is even worse than that (terrible though the jew-hating is). The root of this is belief in mad conspiracy theories about how the world works and also defending the Leader and the Party in all circumstances no matter how terrible the morals involved are. No personal compromise is too great in order to show support of the leader and his power to revolutionise the UK.

This is Leninism. Pure and simple.

Who knows who the next target will be, especially if they are in government? But whichever group gets targeted (I'd guess journalists, then academics), then all the CLPs will support whatever is being done by these kinds of numbers.

Yes - if they get in it will be ugly, very ugly.

Similar motion passed in Hackney North. A smaller margin but Diane was present and said nothing. Institutional.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-labour-members-in-tears-diane-abbott-s-local-party-passes-motion-questioning-instituti-1.480825

BannedInParis

rottenborough said:

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It is even worse than that (terrible though the jew-hating is). The root of this is belief in mad conspiracy theories about how the world works and also defending the Leader and the Party in all circumstances no matter how terrible the morals involved are. No personal compromise is too great in order to show support of the leader and his power to revolutionise the UK.

This is Leninism. Pure and simple.

Who knows who the next target will be, especially if they are in government? But whichever group gets targeted (I'd guess journalists, then academics), then all the CLPs will support whatever is being done by these kinds of numbers.

journalists - well, mainstream journalists - are already on the list.

not sure if academics will - the non-scientists here are all pretty much Team JC, while the scientists get on with doing science.

rottenborough

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/socialist_app/status/1100834468774977544

The Blairite witchhunt?

BannedInParis

... but if they ever start to 'decolonise' my 3rd year Statistical Thermodynamics course, I will wage eternal holy war on their souls.

DavidL

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Grayling is utterly useless and in any ordinary cabinet he would have been fired ages ago

Sacking someone for being utterly useless would be a dangerous precedent indeed.

Sean_F

Ishmael_Z said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1101456393796808706

Does he mean "died", and will he ever learn that if you are explaining a cartoon you are losing?

Has he ever produced an amusing cartoon?

BannedInParis

Anorak said:

Floater said:

rottenborough said:

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It is even worse than that (terrible though the jew-hating is). The root of this is belief in mad conspiracy theories about how the world works and also defending the Leader and the Party in all circumstances no matter how terrible the morals involved are. No personal compromise is too great in order to show support of the leader and his power to revolutionise the UK.

This is Leninism. Pure and simple.

Who knows who the next target will be, especially if they are in government? But whichever group gets targeted (I'd guess journalists, then academics), then all the CLPs will support whatever is being done by these kinds of numbers.

Yes - if they get in it will be ugly, very ugly.

Similar motion passed in Hackney North. A smaller margin but Diane was present and said nothing. Institutional.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-labour-members-in-tears-diane-abbott-s-local-party-passes-motion-questioning-instituti-1.480825

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor"

Streeter

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

Yes. He's a disaster. What's the opposite of the Midas touch?

The Merdeas touch. Everything turns to shit.

Dura_Ace

rottenborough said:

This is Leninism. Pure and simple

I'd say it's more Stalinism than Leninism (the best of all the -isms). "Freedom of discussion, unity of action" was a key tenet of Leninism that didn't survive in Stalinism.

OblitusSumMe

Floater said:

OblitusSumMe said:

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

I don't know. 40 people in each of 500 constituencies is still only 20,000 - a minority among the membership as a whole, but clearly one that is currently intimidating the majority.

I reckon that if they could turf out the ringleaders, maybe a couple of thousand people, then the rest would fall into line in a different environment. If Corbyn stood aside and the central party organisation rallied behind Watson I reckon he could probably purge the ranks and steady the ship, but there's a lot of work to be done.

If if if

While they dither the virus takes over the host.

Yes, if. I think it is possible that the point of no return has not yet passed, but time is running out for those like Watson who want to save the Labour Party.

It may be too late, but I expect Watson and others will have to have that proved to themselves by experience.

williamglenn

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/socialist_app/status/1100834468774977544

The Blairite witchhunt?

Even Trump is backing Williamson.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1089340201204441088

Anorak

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/socialist_app/status/1100834468774977544

The Blairite witchhunt?

The Blairite Witchhunt Project.

Corbyn, McDonnell, Williamson and Diane spend a night camping in the forest, only to find the Star of David scratched into every tree trunk. Oscar cert.

JosiasJessop

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

I'm really, really, really trying to not buy one of these:
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/B512.html

Mrs J won't object as we got married on the real one, and I can just say it's a tribute to our love.

Philip_Thompson

Whatever the rights or wrong's of Brexit, the UK will be just fine either inside or outside of the European Union.

The UK will not be just fine if Corbyn's gang take over.

Sean_F

BannedInParis said:

... but if they ever start to 'decolonise' my 3rd year Statistical Thermodynamics course, I will wage eternal holy war on their souls.

Science is apparently racist.

BannedInParis

Sean_F said:

BannedInParis said:

... but if they ever start to 'decolonise' my 3rd year Statistical Thermodynamics course, I will wage eternal holy war on their souls.

Science is apparently racist.

if that starts to take root in UK universities, I am off.

Pulpstar

Philip_Thompson said:

Whatever the rights or wrong's of Brexit, the UK will be just fine either inside or outside of the European Union.

The UK will not be just fine if Corbyn's gang take over.

It's one of the better reasons to leave, as any sort of "not leaving" will crucify the Tories in the polls I suspect.

Dura_Ace

Philip_Thompson said:

Whatever the rights or wrong's of Brexit, the UK will be just fine either inside or outside of the European Union.

Brexit mean's Brexit.

Harris_Tweed

Philip_Thompson said:

Harris_Tweed said:

Anorak said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Farage is box office and will get the BBC airtime advantage over UKIP.

The problem with seeing any EU Parliament elections as a mini-referendum is Labour. Their official policy headline will still be formally for Brexit (albeit a Labour unicorn Brexit) but many of their members and voters will see their support as being for voting Remain in another referendum.

Yes Farage interviews very well, and has [mostly] avoided the taint of the completely bonkers people remaining in UKIP. UKIP are two steps from using banners and large gold eagles, IMO.

That'll be a difficult editorial policy question for Ofcom and the BBC in assessing "demonstrable electoral support". From past experience, UKIP would get the nod and a great deal of airtime on the basis of the last EU election (probably tempered by somewhat quieter GE's since). But there'd be a counter-argument from Farage that UKIP's moved a long way since then, and he's the continuity act.

If you accepted that, though, you'd have the same argument from Chukka that he's the true inheritor of the Miliband dynasty!

That's where opnion polls, local elections and the European Elections [if they happen] will have a role to play.

I was thinking of the period leading up to any such EU elections. Neither the Brexit Party nor TIG would have a shred of claim to any past electoral support - but both are arguably important strands of opinion. The lag inherent with proven support is the reason UKIP moaned about its coverage before the last EU election.. then got a lot more after it’s success in that.

(And yes, I agree with your later point about Umunna - I was being slightly flippant )

malcolmg

Floater said:

OblitusSumMe said:

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

I don't know. 40 people in each of 500 constituencies is still only 20,000 - a minority among the membership as a whole, but clearly one that is currently intimidating the majority.

I reckon that if they could turf out the ringleaders, maybe a couple of thousand people, then the rest would fall into line in a different environment. If Corbyn stood aside and the central party organisation rallied behind Watson I reckon he could probably purge the ranks and steady the ship, but there's a lot of work to be done.

If if if

While they dither the virus takes over the host.

Floater, I posted a reply above to your question on last thread re avatar. Has been there a while.

ReggieCide

eek said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

Well it's fixable by leaving it open for a month finding out which other CLP's agree with them and kicking the entire CLP out of the party.

Other than that yep - the Labour party clearly has a antisemitism issue that has taken hold of the body and is going to be utterly impossible to remove.

It seems to me that all the apologising has been more or less for saying something; nothing about thinking it, both then and presumably continuing to do so. It's all a sham.

TudorRose

Streeter said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

I think Chris Grayling must be the worst cabinet minister of all time.

Yes. He's a disaster. What's the opposite of the Midas touch?

The Merdeas touch. Everything turns to shit.

Can't we just agree to call it the Grayling touch from now on?

TGOHF

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

Chris Grayling's time at justice should be a black mark against David Cameron.

Fixed that for you.

Is there a department Grayling has ever done well at? Why on Earth he has gotten to the Cabinet and stayed there is beyond me.

Contrast with people like Gove at Justice and the difference is remarkable.

Gove upsets civil servants whereever he goes.

Grayling obviously doesn't by enough.

Of course this whole ferry fiasco may cause Grayling to rightly get the chop - but the civil servants wont' feel the pain.

algarkirk

Brom said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

The answer is always David Lammy

Beg to disagree. Christopher Chope and David Lammy are utterly decent human beings. Of course I often disagree with them, and no doubt they often disagree with each other. Incidentally, speaking from a centre right traditionalist position, I think David Lammy is about correct in his recent controversy.

ReggieCide

algarkirk said:

Brom said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

The answer is always David Lammy

Beg to disagree. Christopher Chope and David Lammy are utterly decent human beings. I often disagree with them, and no doubt they disagree with each other. Incidentally, speaking from a centre right traditionalist position in many ways I think David Lammy is about correct in his recent controversy.

You're a chum are you?

eek

algarkirk said:

Brom said:

TOPPING said:

Anorak said:

Apropos of nothing, who is the worst human being out of:
1. George Galloway
2. Piers Morgan
3. Andrew Bridgen
4. Christopher Chope
5. Chris Williamson

I rank them 1,3,5,4,2 (first being worst). But open to persuasion.

6. Mark Francois

The answer is always David Lammy

Beg to disagree. Christopher Chope and David Lammy are utterly decent human beings. I often disagree with them, and no doubt they disagree with each other. Incidentally, speaking from a centre right traditionalist position in many ways I think David Lammy is about correct in his recent controversy.

Christopher Chope a decent human being? Given that his private member bill policy is to object to all bills except those from his mates you really can't call him decent....

Frankly he is about the biggest embarrassment in the Tory party and that has a lot of competition.

FeersumEnjineeya

Dura_Ace said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Whatever the rights or wrong's of Brexit, the UK will be just fine either inside or outside of the European Union.

Brexit mean's Brexit.

lol

ReggieCide

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Dura_Ace said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Whatever the rights or wrong's of Brexit, the UK will be just fine either inside or outside of the European Union.

Brexit mean's Brexit.

lol

lo'l?

Floater

malcolmg said:

Floater said:

OblitusSumMe said:

rottenborough said:

Anorak said:

No problem here. This is unfixable from within.
https://twitter.com/l_attfield/status/1101449436423745536

The virus really is very widespread across Labour isn't it?

The party is finished. Watson needs to lead his people out of this cesspit.

I don't know. 40 people in each of 500 constituencies is still only 20,000 - a minority among the membership as a whole, but clearly one that is currently intimidating the majority.

I reckon that if they could turf out the ringleaders, maybe a couple of thousand people, then the rest would fall into line in a different environment. If Corbyn stood aside and the central party organisation rallied behind Watson I reckon he could probably purge the ranks and steady the ship, but there's a lot of work to be done.

If if if

While they dither the virus takes over the host.

Floater, I posted a reply above to your question on last thread re avatar. Has been there a while.

Saw it Malc - thanks

HYUFD

I think if the Deal is passed or especially if we get a long extension of Article 50 and EUref2 with a Remain option and still end up electing MEPs then Farage, as the most charismatic and well known of the hardline Brexiteers whp were within UKIP will carry much of his former party's supporters with him, while UKIP becomes the Tommy Robinson/EDL party effectively moving on from Brexit to focus mainly on an anti immigration message