Charles Walker is my MP. I can only imagine that "senior tory" is polite journo speak to mean he is a total non entity. He is past "junior" but not yet "veteran". He isnt "talented", "prominent", "outspoken" or "influential" and has never been tipped for any kind of promotion. This is the only time i can ever remember him being mentioned in national discourse except in a list of rank outsiders for the non-vacancy of House speaker.
What would it take to be described as plain "tory"?
Isn't he chair of a Commons committee? That's not a total non-entity.
If you are ERG you are going to get another go at voting on May's deal, either before the end of the month or after an extension. There is no need to vote for it now with 3 weeks left until we leave. They may however have their hand forced next time round in order to ensure Brexit goes ahead.
I'm not sure...I think there's a good chance if she doesn't get it tonight. She's gone tomorrow.
Maybe. I do think the 'not this time but next time' crowd will regret it as they dont get another chance.
Charles Walker is my MP. I can only imagine that "senior tory" is polite journo speak to mean he is a total non entity. He is past "junior" but not yet "veteran". He isnt "talented", "prominent", "outspoken" or "influential" and has never been tipped for any kind of promotion. This is the only time i can ever remember him being mentioned in national discourse except in a list of rank outsiders for the non-vacancy of House speaker.
What would it take to be described as plain "tory"?
Isn't he chair of a Commons committee? That's not a total non-entity.
Nor is he a senior Tory.
When quoted by journalists, all backbenchers are 'senior', except for a very few who are 'up and coming'.
IMO, Labour's position in a snap election will be "we'll extend Article 50 for two years, we'll negotiate our version of Brexit (Customs Union etc.), then we'll put that deal vs Remain in a referendum at the end of it".
Which would store up a lot of problems for them down the road if they actually got into government, but could potentially work as a short-term position to get them through the election campaign.
I second this emotion.
That would be the policy and I would give Labour a good chance of winning such an election.
I haven't got a stable view in my mind on the likely outcome of a snap election. However there are some pretty negative forces that will work against Labour and they are starting behind in the polls. I'm not confident of predicting anything, or should I say I'm much less confident than normal and I'm never that confident.
Is the view still that a GE at this point would kill TIG before it had even got off the ground? At least that would have the benefit of removing 11 Remainers from Parliament.
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
IMO, Labour's position in a snap election will be "we'll extend Article 50 for two years, we'll negotiate our version of Brexit (Customs Union etc.), then we'll put that deal vs Remain in a referendum at the end of it".
Which would store up a lot of problems for them down the road if they actually got into government, but could potentially work as a short-term position to get them through the election campaign.
A GE on that basis could be 1997 all over again for the Tories, although, in spite of themselves, I suspect the LD's might do better than they did then.
But Kantar has them 10% ahead! In reality,though, most of the 6% recorded for Greens would end up voting Labour.
Polls taken outside of a GE campaign give a nationwide figure of party support. Once an election is called voters start to consider what are the options in their own constituency. There must be millions of centre left voters who are not prepared to speak in favour of Corbyn or Cable in a YouGov poll, but would vote for their Labour candidate in constituencies where the choice comes down to Labour or Tory.
Also if an election is held in May, there are not going to be many TIG constituencies to mop up their 8% or so.
For all of Theresa May's faults, how would anyone else pass Brexit when the House of Commons has a clear majority of Remainers who oppose Brexit, and Leavers who oppose Brexit?
Come up with a Brexit that can be backed by Leavers then go to the polls to get backing for that.
If MPs can ignore the result of a referendum they can certainly ignore manifesto commitments from a general election.
"The Prime Minister may have lost her voice but would she agree with me that if we end up with a second referendum 17.2 million people will have lost theirs."
I liked that. Elegant.
Also untrue unless Leave voters are to be barred from taking part in a second referendum, but yes, certainly elegant.
Nope it is absolutely true. There is no point asking people to vote if you do not follow through on what they vote for. All those who voted to Leave will have been old their votes are worthless.
That is also the message that many of us will be pushing in the coming years. Democracy in Britain has failed and the whole system needs to be swept away.
Irrespective of the referendum, I'm certainly with you on the latter point.
If you are ERG you are going to get another go at voting on May's deal, either before the end of the month or after an extension. There is no need to vote for it now with 3 weeks left until we leave. They may however have their hand forced next time round in order to ensure Brexit goes ahead.
I'm not sure...I think there's a good chance if she doesn't get it tonight. She's gone tomorrow.
Maybe. I do think the 'not this time but next time' crowd will regret it as they dont get another chance.
Sometimes the last time really means last time.
I really think that this is it, at least for this deal. The EU have been much more flexible than many predicted (indicating that they too want a deal) but there are limits.
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
The problem they have is that, to some extent at least, NI remaining part of the UK depends on the good will and agreement of Parliament and of the Government. If they do screw us over Brexit then they run the serious risk of a future Government deciding the time is right for a referendum on reunification (as set out in the GFA) that they may well lose. There will be plenty of people like me who would be happy to see the back of them after this.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Not really... Its basically shown our political class at their most self-indulgent and absolute worst.
Nah, apart from the two major party leaders it has been our politicians trying their best to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It is not the politicians fault that they have been given impossible and contradictory instructions by their electorates.
Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Grieve
Ugh. No. Fuck that. I am happy to admit most Brexiteers have been diminished by Brexit, but the same applies to the awful Remoaners, and Grieve is possibly the worst of that odious bunch. He claims to be doing everything with some higher principle in mind, but really he just wants to reverse the vote, and ignore the stupid proles. Even worse, he can’t really be bothered to disguise his snobbish contempt. It positively OOZES.
He is disgusting.
When we, as a nation, write THE SECOND TWAT he will not get a positive notice.
Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Ken Clarke.
He already had an outstanding reputation.
True but amongst those who supported Leave he has also managed to show himself to be the one English MP who maintained his reputation for absolute honesty whilst also adhering to his beliefs. Any reasonable Leaver can admire that.
For all of Theresa May's faults, how would anyone else pass Brexit when the House of Commons has a clear majority of Remainers who oppose Brexit, and Leavers who oppose Brexit?
Come up with a Brexit that can be backed by Leavers then go to the polls to get backing for that.
I doubt that a "Brexit that can be backed by leavers" will get majority support in the country.
where is this confidence that if the deal goes down, so does May, come from?
The woman just keeps going. Im not expecting some kind of tearful statement outside Number 10 this evening confirming its towel-chucking time. More likely there’ll be a nothing’s changed, I’m carrying on, next vote is tomorrow, this deal takesbackcontrolofourmoneybordersandlaws etc etc.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
My wife and children are booked to fly with Icelandair in a few weeks. Is there any way to tell whether their flight is booked to be on a Boeing 8 Max or not?
Nothing up on Icelandair's website or on their Twitter page that I can see regarding this.
Noone will be flying out of UK airspace on an 8 Max, and quite rightly so. So I assume if the flight was originally going to be an 8-Max it'd be another Boeing, or more likely being a european(ish) operator the fleet would mainly be Airbus.
So the flight would still be going ahead? I'm worried we're going to be told the flight is cancelled.
Either Boeing will satisfactorily demonstrate the Max is safe, and that the two crashes were unrelated (which is still quite possible to be the case) or it will find and fix the issue. Chances are that the Maxes will be flying again by the time you and your family are.
There is a third alternative: the planes are mechanically safe, but the changes to handling a near stall is the critical link. Experienced but inadequately retrained pilots are at risk in extreme pressure situations of reverting to their standard training, ending in a crash.
If this is the case, Boeing will have to convince the airlines, aviation authorities and the public, that the appropriate retraining to all 8 Max pilots is adequate. How long this takes is much harder to predict.
That is not going to happen, IMO.
When Boeing re-engined the aircraft, the necessary repositioning of the larger engines on a layout not designed for them made the aircraft inherently unstable in pitch.
With appropriate modern flight control software, that need not be a problem, but as I understand it, rather than a full rewrite of the software, Boeing appears to have applied a patch (the 'Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System') on top of the existing flight control software used on previous versions of the 737.
The interactions between the software, the patch, and pilot input are complex, and apparently unpredictable (and very likely resulted in the first crash, and quite possibly the second). Until the full investigation is concluded on both crashes, I don't see how you could even begin to say what "appropriate retraining" might be, or whether that might be capable of addressing the problem safely.
Similar comments might be made of the software upgrade that Boeing is currently intending to deliver next month, which (I think) is a patch to the patch.
So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
You claim to be in favour of the Deal as the best way of honouring democracy, with the least damage to the country, and you do it plausibly (you actually persuaded me I should be in favour).
But you ruin your case with that list. Grieve, Soubry, et al, have never accepted the democratic will and have conspired at all times to subvert it. They are snakes
I can see the culture war, when Brexit is cancelled, is going to be very very nasty. We are a poisoned nation.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.
In fairness, Letwin has voted in favour of the Brexit legislation. I don't blame those like Letwin, Spelman, Boles, who have showed themselves willing to vote for Brexit, but not a No Deal Brexit.
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
The problem they have is that, to some extent at least, NI remaining part of the UK depends on the good will and agreement of Parliament and of the Government. If they do screw us over Brexit then they run the serious risk of a future Government deciding the time is right for a referendum on reunification (as set out in the GFA) that they may well lose. There will be plenty of people like me who would be happy to see the back of them after this.
In fairness Richard, I think on this agenda item we can agree: we'd be happy to see the back of the DUP after this, before this, at the time of this or indeed at any time in history that one could mention.
So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
Isn't he responsible for there being a meaningful vote in the first place? Without it the deal would have been signed months ago.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Indeed. Well said.
Its untrue though. They would not have triggered a50 if any Brexit at all was unacceptable to them. That would be honourable. I now back remain as I've changed my mind but if they are defended as not changing their minds, doing what they believed, their earlier actions show they did not always do so.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.
I haven't got a stable view in my mind on the likely outcome of a snap election. However there are some pretty negative forces that will work against Labour and they are starting behind in the polls. I'm not confident of predicting anything, or should I say I'm much less confident than normal and I'm never that confident.
Well, agreed, 'confident' would not be quite the right word for how I feel either. I actually, believe it or not, would not be amazed if TM gets the WA through in the end, survives and thrives.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
But, he has done his utmost to torpedo an orderly Brexit, so as to prevent any form of Brexit. He may well succeed, or he may indeed precipitate the No Deal that he claims not to want.
An aside: watched ITV News at Ten last night. Peston wibbled about the ERG. He forgot that they're a small part of one party. Most MPs are pro-EU. The deal lost last time by 200 votes. Most of those opposing the deal were pro-EU, and many were from other parties.
The myopic focus on some on the ERG (a group worthy of attention but not to an exclusive extent), as if there aren't 600 or so other MPs in Parliament, is just weird.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.
In fairness, Letwin has voted in favour of the Brexit legislation. I don't blame those like Letwin, Spelman, Boles, who have showed themselves willing to vote for Brexit, but not a No Deal Brexit.
Apologies I hadn't realised Letwin voted for the Deal. I agree also about Boles. Living in the next constituency I have never really understood where there was quite such antipathy to him.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Rory Stewart.
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.
And Cooper (big time) and arguably Benn
I would agree on Cooper. She sometimes seems the only sane person in parliament. I like her, increasingly. It is utterly tragic she is marooned on the Opposition back benches while your fucking Trotskyite clown of a leader peddles his Jew-hatred.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
Agreed. I can understand, however, that leavers are unhappy with the way that he has run intellectual rings around them, and that the Tories are in any event notorious for despising cleverness.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
You claim to be in favour of the Deal as the best way of honouring democracy, with the least damage to the country, and you do it plausibly (you actually persuaded me I should be in favour).
But you ruin your case with that list. Grieve, Soubry, et al, have never accepted the democratic will and have conspired at all times to subvert it. They are snakes
I can see the culture war, when Brexit is cancelled, is going to be very very nasty. We are a poisoned nation.
One man's 'snake' is another man's saviour of the nation. We are talking about their reputations, not whether we agree with them.
So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.
Whatever they may wish to believe, pretty much every white inhabitant of the UK is ethnically similar. There has often been a great deal of intermarriage, even if later generations prefer to think otherwise.
An aside: watched ITV News at Ten last night. Peston wibbled about the ERG. He forgot that they're a small part of one party. Most MPs are pro-EU. The deal lost last time by 200 votes. Most of those opposing the deal were pro-EU, and many were from other parties.
The myopic focus on some on the ERG (a group worthy of attention but not to an exclusive extent), as if there aren't 600 or so other MPs in Parliament, is just weird.
That focus originated with, and was maintained by May.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.
Damn it, Richard. You have me agreeing with you again.
So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
That is also the message that many of us will be pushing in the coming years. Democracy in Britain has failed and the whole system needs to be swept away.
That gets my vote. Call in the US, France and the Bundesrepublik to oversee that the British develp a new written constitution and a voting system which combines FPTP with PR. :-)
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.
Whatever they may wish to believe, pretty much every white inhabitant of the UK is ethnically similar. There has often been a great deal of intermarriage, even if later generations prefer to think otherwise.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.
Damn it, Richard. You have me agreeing with you again.
Fear not, I'll find something you can disagree with soon!
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.
It would've passed perfectly fine if no-one had been able to vote on it.
Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.
He's certainly not mostly to blame for things. But he's a fanatic who gets away with it by being clever and because people want to remain, and that annoys me because he's just as unbending and high risk in his approach as Rees Mogg. He shouldn't get away with pretending he's not just as willing to day ir do anything to get what he wants and damn everyone else, as the leaver ultras. I'd back remain now and I think Grieve is a hypocrit and a disgrace.
Comments
Sometimes the last time really means last time.
Not that any of them would have a good chance of winning. Chuka might get a respectable 15% or something.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
Also if an election is held in May, there are not going to be many TIG constituencies to mop up their 8% or so.
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.
But would they extend (specifically) for a Tory leadership contest?
https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1105475150860845057?s=21
Corbyn = Uncle Vernon?
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
He is disgusting.
When we, as a nation, write THE SECOND TWAT he will not get a positive notice.
I'll go for Ken Clarke, Nick Boles & Caroline Spelman and that is just about it.
The woman just keeps going. Im not expecting some kind of tearful statement outside Number 10 this evening confirming its towel-chucking time. More likely there’ll be a nothing’s changed, I’m carrying on, next vote is tomorrow, this deal takesbackcontrolofourmoneybordersandlaws etc etc.
They need to vote for something else instead
When Boeing re-engined the aircraft, the necessary repositioning of the larger engines on a layout not designed for them made the aircraft inherently unstable in pitch.
With appropriate modern flight control software, that need not be a problem, but as I understand it, rather than a full rewrite of the software, Boeing appears to have applied a patch (the 'Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System') on top of the existing flight control software used on previous versions of the 737.
The interactions between the software, the patch, and pilot input are complex, and apparently unpredictable (and very likely resulted in the first crash, and quite possibly the second).
Until the full investigation is concluded on both crashes, I don't see how you could even begin to say what "appropriate retraining" might be, or whether that might be capable of addressing the problem safely.
Similar comments might be made of the software upgrade that Boeing is currently intending to deliver next month, which (I think) is a patch to the patch.
Still, blue passports or something. Yippee.
They appear to prioritising demonstrating they hold the whip hand over the Tories rather than realise that the Tories cannot do anything if paralysed
But you ruin your case with that list. Grieve, Soubry, et al, have never accepted the democratic will and have conspired at all times to subvert it. They are snakes
I can see the culture war, when Brexit is cancelled, is going to be very very nasty. We are a poisoned nation.
Duty, delay for perishables???
That he has been a consistent voice of common sense and principle throughout a process which he had rather wasn't happening, is utterly admirable.
I forgot one more MP whose reputation has been enhanced: Stephen Lloyd.
The myopic focus on some on the ERG (a group worthy of attention but not to an exclusive extent), as if there aren't 600 or so other MPs in Parliament, is just weird.
https://twitter.com/BradfordPearson/status/1105464669353971712
These idiots are still acting like theres buckets of time.
And there are things government should be doing besides Brexit.
I can understand, however, that leavers are unhappy with the way that he has run intellectual rings around them, and that the Tories are in any event notorious for despising cleverness.
https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1105449771760791552
Edited extra bit: I think I used 'snollygoster' in Sir Edric and the Plague (either that or Sir Edric's Kingdom).
What I can never forgive is portrait videography – a crime against humanity.
Mr. B, anyone who takes their intellectual lead from May is daft as a brush.
https://www.nature.com/news/british-isles-mapped-out-by-genetic-ancestry-1.17136
Throttlebottom: Francois
Catchfart: Fabricant
virtuecrat; Grieve