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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    notme2 said:

    Trump has just now on air threatened a trade war with Europe.

    Lol, he loves a good trade war.
    Comments on BBC News now - he is utterly deranged.
    Are we talking Trump, Cummings or Corbyn?
    Or Chope?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    rpjs said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    I follow American news closely. They too have culture wars, and they too have a weird class of people using identity politics to deconstruct their own hardwon freedoms. BUT they have that Constituion. A vital bulwark against the madness. Plus they have a more vibrant economy. Especially in California, where I’d go. Maybe Santa Barbara.
    California is generally badly run. Its schools are on a par with those of Mississippi, it has almost the highest State taxes in the USA, its infrastructure is falling apart, it's overregulated, and over-unionised.

    It's great if you've got enough money to ignore these failings.
    That’s true about all of the US: it’s a great place to live if you have money.
    Even if you have money, in tghe US you often have to work longer hours, commute for longer and have half the annual leave compared to comparable work in the UK and Europe.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    Ofsted should step in and close the school.
    They'd probably end up having to close a great many schools in Birmingham.
    This is what it’s like when the Muslim population of the country is just 5%. We cower and cringe, and abandon precious freedoms and principles with barely a fight. We already have a de facto blasphemy law - that only protects Islam.

    Imagine what it will be like if and when the Muslim population reaches 10%, or 20%.

    Grim.
    According to the article, all kinds of God Squadders have got involved.

    Christians and Jews have also joined the protests, and on one Friday this month campaigners claimed that 600 of the school’s 750 children did not attend classes after being pulled out by their parents.
    Do you really think the school would have abandoned these lessons if it was just Christians or Jews complaining? Of course not. And what’s your guess as to the religious complexion of the kids in this school. In Birmingham. Majority Jewish? Welsh evangelicals?
    Mind you, you've got to hand it to Andrew Moffat, whose teaching program kicked off the protests. He's nothing if not persistent. Looks as if he was involved in an almost identical controversy five years ago:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gay-teacher-resigns-after-parent-protest-3tp2kxnf25n
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545
    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Life is curious isn't it? Throughout the Referendum campaign Leave said we had to restore the power and sovereignty of Parliament.. Now they are doing just that they hate it.

    No, they are choosing to reject those powers and leave them with the EU. That is not what the people voted for.
    And you have ascertained what 'the people' voted for? How exactly? 40 years of campaigning has taught me nothing of the sort!
    17.4 million people voted leave but each had a different perception of what "leave" meant.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019

    We got into this mess because it was obvious we were afraid to keep No deal on the table. (Properly on the table - using the last 3 years to visibly prepare our ports, infrastructure, tax system, really good practical advice for businesses). A certain amount has been done - should have been more ambitious.
    Britain is capable of so much more than this. The country voted to leave. We don't need months or years of asking the EU or Ireland what we can or can't do.
    I appreciate the PM's efforts and attention to detail.
    Anyway, the law currently says we leave the EU on 29th March.

    Hi Joe, nice to see you on here. I got blocked from UKPR for some reason. Still read all the comments on there.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,630
    So we'll soon have loads of people telling Trump to but out of Brexit coz he's a bloody foreigner who shouldn't try to tip the scales, right?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1106214740425089024
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    matt said:



    TGOHF said:

    https://dominiccummings.com/

    "The Conservative Party now has almost no intellectual connection to crucial debates about the ecosystem of science, productivity, universities, funding, startups and so on. I know from personal experience that even billionaire entrepreneurs whose donations are vital to the survival of CCHQ cannot get people like Hammond to listen to anything about all this — Hammond’s focus is obeying his orders from Goldman Sachs.

    Downing Street is much more interested in protecting corporate looting by large banks and companies and protecting rent-seekers than they are in productivity and entrepreneurs. "

    'orders from Goldman Sachs' - what a loon.
    Jews run HMG, it appears.
    they get everywhere....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    The motion is now the property of the house, any of the signatories can now move......
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    The ridiculous Yvette has opened pandoras box
  • The one thing I'm looking forward to, when all this is eventually over, is the end of those irritating protestors who stand behind Simon McCoy/Huw Edwards and scream.

    FFS, get a job.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Is the boyfriend the one in the dress?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    TOPPING said:

    Fenster said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Extraordinary to hear Conservative MPs publicly threatening to vote against their own Government in a VoNC. That suggests internal party order has now collapsed and perhaps the first head on the block should be that of Brandon Lewis. I watched some hapless Government spokesman from the Lords wheeled out to be the cannon fodder to Ken Clarke who naturally treated his argument as though it was something into which his shoe had inadvertently gone.

    As for SeanT claiming the end of civilisation has come - maybe but nowhere is perfect. Everywhere has its flaws - all the Tories on here seem to hate California with a healthy passion. I love San Diego and Rancho Mirage but could I live there? No. Mrs Stodge tells me New Zealand is still a decent place - maybe but you won't find Utopia on a map - you might be bale to make a local Utopia for yourself somewhere but that's all.

    Ystrad Mynach, South Wales Valleys = Utopia

    :)
    stephenpritchard.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/snaffles-hunting-prints-the-finest-view-in-europe.jpg
    Very nice. I don't know many hunters, mind you :)

    It is lovely here. We are close enough to Cardiff to be a relatively well-off area; lots of parks and walks and sports facilities. Very friendly and communal, barely any serious crime. A good council; two great primary schools. It's a happy little place.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    tlg86 said:

    SeanT said:

    In other news, this is just TERRIBLE for Boeing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/new-software-in-boeing-737-max-planes-under-scrutinty-after-second-crash/2019/03/13/06716fda-45c7-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html

    They are going to get sued for billions. This is worse than dieselgate. Many people have died.

    Plenty of people have died because of dieselgate.
    Yes: but it's really hard to know which actual deaths were due to Volkswagen. We can make estimates of the effect, but an individual death? And this makes individual litigation hard.

    With Boeing and the 737Max, I think we can work out exactly which deaths are the responsibility of Boeing.

    So what do we reckon - $10m/death? That works out at $3bn. A large check, but not one Boeing cannot shrug off.

    The biggest question is whether the 737Max remains under a cloud for some time. Ironic, really, that Airbus already has seven year waiting lists for the A320Neo, and therefore won't be able to benefit.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    Think yourself lucky we haven't got 650 Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770

    Andrew said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1106202908805210112


    So again it comes back down to the DUP.

    The question then: how many Tory holdouts? 5 remainers, 15 ultra-ERGers? That would mean May needed 15 Labour Ayes.

    Time to tell the DUP No Deal means an Irish unity referendum.

    Oh and Westminster will pass legislation to make same sex marriage legal compulsory in Northern Ireland.

    ‘Cause the DUP hate any difference between NI and GB.
    FTFY
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Fair play to Mr Varadkar, he's done well for himself.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Fair play to Mr Varadkar, he's done well for himself.
    :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    TGOHF said:

    https://dominiccummings.com/

    "The Conservative Party now has almost no intellectual connection to crucial debates about the ecosystem of science, productivity, universities, funding, startups and so on. I know from personal experience that even billionaire entrepreneurs whose donations are vital to the survival of CCHQ cannot get people like Hammond to listen to anything about all this — Hammond’s focus is obeying his orders from Goldman Sachs.

    Downing Street is much more interested in protecting corporate looting by large banks and companies and protecting rent-seekers than they are in productivity and entrepreneurs. "

    With all due respect to Mr Cummings, and I speak as a former Goldman Sachs employee and an entrepreneur, that is bollocks.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    I think that the Palace of Westminster is like the hotel in The Shining.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Fenster said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fenster said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Extraordinary to hear Conservative MPs publicly threatening to vote against their own Government in a VoNC. That suggests internal party order has now collapsed and perhaps the first head on the block should be that of Brandon Lewis. I watched some hapless Government spokesman from the Lords wheeled out to be the cannon fodder to Ken Clarke who naturally treated his argument as though it was something into which his shoe had inadvertently gone.

    As for SeanT claiming the end of civilisation has come - maybe but nowhere is perfect. Everywhere has its flaws - all the Tories on here seem to hate California with a healthy passion. I love San Diego and Rancho Mirage but could I live there? No. Mrs Stodge tells me New Zealand is still a decent place - maybe but you won't find Utopia on a map - you might be bale to make a local Utopia for yourself somewhere but that's all.

    Ystrad Mynach, South Wales Valleys = Utopia

    :)
    stephenpritchard.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/snaffles-hunting-prints-the-finest-view-in-europe.jpg
    Very nice. I don't know many hunters, mind you :)

    It is lovely here. We are close enough to Cardiff to be a relatively well-off area; lots of parks and walks and sports facilities. Very friendly and communal, barely any serious crime. A good council; two great primary schools. It's a happy little place.
    Looks fantastic. Oh and...

    https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/ju-directory/63-glamorgan/46-ystrad-taf-fechan-hunt.html

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    edited March 2019

    We got into this mess because it was obvious we were afraid to keep No deal on the table. (Properly on the table - using the last 3 years to visibly prepare our ports, infrastructure, tax system, really good practical advice for businesses). A certain amount has been done - should have been more ambitious.
    Britain is capable of so much more than this. The country voted to leave. We don't need months or years of asking the EU or Ireland what we can or can't do.
    I appreciate the PM's efforts and attention to detail.
    Anyway, the law currently says we leave the EU on 29th March.

    I have seen nothing in the last couple of years to suggest that "Britain is capable of so much more than this". I'm with SeanT and would be looking to get out if I was younger, as it is I'm retired and may yet do it once the post-Brexit implications of moving to another part of Europe become clearer.

    Welcome to PB by the way
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    I think that the Palace of Westminster is like the hotel in The Shining.
    The quieter ones are probably more intelligent than the rentagobs that love to air their views.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    Or try eating some of their 'cheese'.
    In posh parts of California you can get every variety of European cheese plus their own new artisanal stuff, which is nice. Also Californian wines (not quite as good as Aussie, but v pleasant). Plus all those deserts and mountains. The sweet summer sweat. Warm smell of calyptus.

    Fuck it, I’m going.
    Los Angeles is particularly attractive at this time of year. I'm currently having breakfast in The Brentwood Countrymart, sitting about five yards from a selection of excellent artisinal cheeses*. This weekend, we'll go hiking in the Santa Monica mountains, and I may go for a swim in ocean. Next weekend, we're going skiing, which is perfectly simple, due to the fact that the nearest ski resort is just 90 minutes drive away.

    And at the kids school** fundraiser last week there was a basket of weed products - mostly edibles, but some "pre-rolls too" - in the auction.

    * The artisinal cheeses are quite eyewateringly expensive.
    ** Just the local public elementary school
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    I think that the Palace of Westminster is like the hotel in The Shining.
    The hotel was in a better state of repair.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    Really? Every time someone complains about Bercow's choice of amendments we're told they are the rules, suck it up. I think MPs have every right to vote on something, even if the original proposer would rather not go through with it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Letwin says he has 20 Cons voting for his amendment (ITV).
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Paul Masterton MP explains his actions last night:

    https://www.paulmasterton.org.uk/news/brexit-update-14th-march-2019
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    Really? Every time someone complains about Bercow's choice of amendments we're told they are the rules, suck it up. I think MPs have every right to vote on something, even if the original proposer would rather not go through with it.
    I daresay you're right.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    SeanT said:

    In other news, this is just TERRIBLE for Boeing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/new-software-in-boeing-737-max-planes-under-scrutinty-after-second-crash/2019/03/13/06716fda-45c7-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html

    They are going to get sued for billions. This is worse than dieselgate. Many people have died.

    Plenty of people have died because of dieselgate.
    Yes: but it's really hard to know which actual deaths were due to Volkswagen. We can make estimates of the effect, but an individual death? And this makes individual litigation hard.

    With Boeing and the 737Max, I think we can work out exactly which deaths are the responsibility of Boeing.

    So what do we reckon - $10m/death? That works out at $3bn. A large check, but not one Boeing cannot shrug off.

    The biggest question is whether the 737Max remains under a cloud for some time. Ironic, really, that Airbus already has seven year waiting lists for the A320Neo, and therefore won't be able to benefit.
    10 mil a life is on on the high side as an average I would say.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    SeanT said:

    In other news, this is just TERRIBLE for Boeing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/new-software-in-boeing-737-max-planes-under-scrutinty-after-second-crash/2019/03/13/06716fda-45c7-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html

    They are going to get sued for billions. This is worse than dieselgate. Many people have died.

    Plenty of people have died because of dieselgate.
    Yes: but it's really hard to know which actual deaths were due to Volkswagen. We can make estimates of the effect, but an individual death? And this makes individual litigation hard.

    With Boeing and the 737Max, I think we can work out exactly which deaths are the responsibility of Boeing.

    So what do we reckon - $10m/death? That works out at $3bn. A large check, but not one Boeing cannot shrug off.

    The biggest question is whether the 737Max remains under a cloud for some time. Ironic, really, that Airbus already has seven year waiting lists for the A320Neo, and therefore won't be able to benefit.
    As noted below Boeing are highly likely to have substantial liability insurance to cover any claims against them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    I wish we had politicians as good as the SNP in England.

    They have some talented people and ate very disciplined but there does seem to be some hero worship of them by some in England that ignites that they are still politicians and suffer the same sorts of issues. Are they the best of a bad bunch? I dont know, maybe, but they surely dont deserve hagiographic praise that they get
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wish we had politicians as good as the SNP in England.

    They have some talented people and ate very disciplined but there does seem to be some hero worship of them by some in England that ignites that they are still politicians and suffer the same sorts of issues.
    Would anyone want Alex Salmond?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited March 2019
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    Really? Every time someone complains about Bercow's choice of amendments we're told they are the rules, suck it up. I think MPs have every right to vote on something, even if the original proposer would rather not go through with it.
    Especially as the constant refrain on here is that MPs actually need to decide on something.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    RobD said:

    Also breaking: his keyboard. I'm imagining how furiously that tweet was typed.

    Probably paving the way for saying another Presidential election will be unfair because he's already been elected bigly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Fenman said:

    Life is curious isn't it? Throughout the Referendum campaign Leave said we had to restore the power and sovereignty of Parliament.. Now they are doing just that they hate it.

    They haven't done it yet. And when the government wins things parliament is still sovereign then yet the losers still claim parliament is not listened to. So in short, a lot of guff is spoken about such things, but parliament is still in control were May to get her deal through it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Chope says he would seriously consider voting with Labour to no confidence the government.

    Is even making the threat against party rules?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    notme2 said:

    Trump has just now on air threatened a trade war with Europe.

    Trump needs an enemy to blame things on.

    He reminds me a bit of General Galtieri.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    148grss said:

    So we'll soon have loads of people telling Trump to but out of Brexit coz he's a bloody foreigner who shouldn't try to tip the scales, right?
    Absolutely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    Really? Every time someone complains about Bercow's choice of amendments we're told they are the rules, suck it up. I think MPs have every right to vote on something, even if the original proposer would rather not go through with it.
    If its permissible for them to add their names I cannot see the problem. Play procedural games and the other side will too. The ERG I do not like but Starmer and Grieve have been lionised for their use of procedural arcana.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Be interesting to see how much they can retrieve:

    https://twitter.com/BEA_Aero/status/1106221599735332864
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I'm going to hell for laughing at that, aren't I...
  • I hope Christopher Chope gets sodomised by a herd of horny honey badgers.

    I’d call him a c*nt but he lacks the depth and the warmth.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    edited March 2019
    That's a colourful way of describing his import/export strategy.
  • Danny565 said:

    I'm going to hell for laughing at that, aren't I...
    You’ll be joining me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    Chope says he would seriously consider voting with Labour to no confidence the government.

    Is even making the threat against party rules?
    If so about a dozen Remainers have already broken party rules.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    Really? Every time someone complains about Bercow's choice of amendments we're told they are the rules, suck it up. I think MPs have every right to vote on something, even if the original proposer would rather not go through with it.
    If its permissible for them to add their names I cannot see the problem. Play procedural games and the other side will too. The ERG I do not like but Starmer and Grieve have been lionised for their use of procedural arcana.
    I don't have a problem with this.

    It seems to me that both sides are making entirely unnecessary strategic errors at the moment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Chope says he would seriously consider voting with Labour to no confidence the government.

    Is even making the threat against party rules?
    If so about a dozen Remainers have already broken party rules.
    So presumably not then. In fairness the remainers made threats to quit first, and Indeed some did so.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    148grss said:

    So we'll soon have loads of people telling Trump to but out of Brexit coz he's a bloody foreigner who shouldn't try to tip the scales, right?
    On an even more basic level Trump should butt out because, bloody foreigner or not, he is an utter tosser.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    I think that the Palace of Westminster is like the hotel in The Shining.
    The hotel was in a better state of repair.
    Yes, but the image of Mrs. May at her typewriter....
    WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    On both potential Wollaston-2 and MV3 being ineligible because they've already been asked, hasn't a customs union been voted down about 5 times by the house already ?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1106202908805210112


    So again it comes back down to the DUP.

    The question then: how many Tory holdouts? 5 remainers, 15 ultra-ERGers? That would mean May needed 15 Labour Ayes.

    Time to tell the DUP No Deal means an Irish unity referendum.

    Oh and Westminster will pass legislation to make same sex marriage legal compulsory and implement an Abortion law to ensure people do not need to travel in Northern Ireland.



    ‘Cause the DUP hate any difference between NI and GB.
    FTFY
    FTFY properly as the second abortion issue really does need to be fixed as part of a concerted plan to bring Ulster into the 1990s..
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Be interesting to see how much they can retrieve:

    twitter.com/BEA_Aero/status/1106221599735332864

    Probably everything - those things are built to take incredible punishment.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    I'm surprised Andrew Lilico hasn't formed Tories for Corbyn.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,061
    Pulpstar said:

    On both potential Wollaston-2 and MV3 being ineligible because they've already been asked, hasn't a customs union been voted down about 5 times by the house already ?

    As has No Deal

    So that leaves Revoke...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    148grss said:

    So we'll soon have loads of people telling Trump to but out of Brexit coz he's a bloody foreigner who shouldn't try to tip the scales, right?
    On an even more basic level Trump should butt out because, bloody foreigner or not, he is an utter tosser.
    If you exclude utter tossers we might lose half of Parliament ...

    ... wait I'm not sure if that's a negative or positive.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Scott_P said:
    Did the ludicrous Cox bellow in everyone's earhole?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    Or try eating some of their 'cheese'.
    In posh parts of California you can get every variety of European cheese plus their own new artisanal stuff, which is nice. Also Californian wines (not quite as good as Aussie, but v pleasant). Plus all those deserts and mountains. The sweet summer sweat. Warm smell of calyptus.

    Fuck it, I’m going.
    True, there are small pockets of the US where one can get decent stuff. Dreadful bureaucracy though - much worse than here.
    Indeed. I have encountered the US tax system. I am still recovering.

    It is amazing how vivacious their economy is - creating giants like apple, and amazon, and google - when the bureaucracy seems designed to frustrate it.
    Go to Socal.

    The weather is what you imagine, while in Norcal on a good day it's like Birmingham
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Scott_P said:
    Love it. Also, how many is the right amount of leaks?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Pulpstar, quite.

    And nobody that I can remember, from either side, advocated staying in the customs union if we left the EU.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    GIN1138 said:
    Trumpton really is a soggy cockend.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    I think that the Palace of Westminster is like the hotel in The Shining.
    The hotel was in a better state of repair.
    And its maze wasn't quite as difficult to negotiate as Brexit - even when being pursued by an axe-wielding Jack Nicholson......
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Would the Chris Bryant motion actually block the govt from bringing "MV3", or would it just be symbolic?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited March 2019

    Be interesting to see how much they can retrieve:

    https://twitter.com/BEA_Aero/status/1106221599735332864

    The important bit is the memory held in the cylinder, so it'll probably be fine.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On both potential Wollaston-2 and MV3 being ineligible because they've already been asked, hasn't a customs union been voted down about 5 times by the house already ?

    As has No Deal

    So that leaves Revoke...
    I might be misremembering but I'm sure SNP amendments to revoke article 50 have been defeated before now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    Or try eating some of their 'cheese'.
    In posh parts of California you can get every variety of European cheese plus their own new artisanal stuff, which is nice. Also Californian wines (not quite as good as Aussie, but v pleasant). Plus all those deserts and mountains. The sweet summer sweat. Warm smell of calyptus.

    Fuck it, I’m going.
    True, there are small pockets of the US where one can get decent stuff. Dreadful bureaucracy though - much worse than here.
    Indeed. I have encountered the US tax system. I am still recovering.

    It is amazing how vivacious their economy is - creating giants like apple, and amazon, and google - when the bureaucracy seems designed to frustrate it.
    Go to Socal.

    The weather is what you imagine, while in Norcal on a good day it's like Birmingham
    Where is Birmingham's Napa Valley?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    What time will Parliament be commencing tonight's entertainments? :D
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    edited March 2019

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    Think yourself lucky we haven't got 650 Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs
    Why? – nowt wrong with AOC. She has got serious game and would one considered a centre-left moderate were she European.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://dominiccummings.com/

    "The Conservative Party now has almost no intellectual connection to crucial debates about the ecosystem of science, productivity, universities, funding, startups and so on. I know from personal experience that even billionaire entrepreneurs whose donations are vital to the survival of CCHQ cannot get people like Hammond to listen to anything about all this — Hammond’s focus is obeying his orders from Goldman Sachs.

    Downing Street is much more interested in protecting corporate looting by large banks and companies and protecting rent-seekers than they are in productivity and entrepreneurs. "

    With all due respect to Mr Cummings, and I speak as a former Goldman Sachs employee and an entrepreneur, that is bollocks.
    They prefer big banks to entrepreneurial minnows though! Otherwise where are the minnows paying massive amounts into the compensation funds because of the big banks f*** ups ?
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Be interesting to see how much they can retrieve:

    https://twitter.com/BEA_Aero/status/1106221599735332864


    Just stop.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    Or try eating some of their 'cheese'.
    In posh parts of California you can get every variety of European cheese plus their own new artisanal stuff, which is nice. Also Californian wines (not quite as good as Aussie, but v pleasant). Plus all those deserts and mountains. The sweet summer sweat. Warm smell of calyptus.

    Fuck it, I’m going.
    True, there are small pockets of the US where one can get decent stuff. Dreadful bureaucracy though - much worse than here.
    Indeed. I have encountered the US tax system. I am still recovering.

    It is amazing how vivacious their economy is - creating giants like apple, and amazon, and google - when the bureaucracy seems designed to frustrate it.
    Go to Socal.

    The weather is what you imagine, while in Norcal on a good day it's like Birmingham
    Where is Birmingham's Napa Valley?
    Clearly you haven’t been to Dudley.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    edited March 2019

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1106214740425089024
    With the ERG's political nous, the other MPs will probably pass it - just to spite them.....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Well yes, but the House of Commons' own expressed view on the subject is clearly going to be a highly relevant consideration for the chair. The Bryant amendment seems highly risky to me for that reason.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1106214740425089024
    With the ERG's political nous, the other MPs will probably pass it - just to spite them.....
    Or the ERG might end up voting for it by mistake.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    edited March 2019
    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    Or try eating some of their 'cheese'.
    In posh parts of California you can get every variety of European cheese plus their own new artisanal stuff, which is nice. Also Californian wines (not quite as good as Aussie, but v pleasant). Plus all those deserts and mountains. The sweet summer sweat. Warm smell of calyptus.

    Fuck it, I’m going.
    True, there are small pockets of the US where one can get decent stuff. Dreadful bureaucracy though - much worse than here.
    Indeed. I have encountered the US tax system. I am still recovering.

    It is amazing how vivacious their economy is - creating giants like apple, and amazon, and google - when the bureaucracy seems designed to frustrate it.
    Go to Socal.

    The weather is what you imagine, while in Norcal on a good day it's like Birmingham
    Where is Birmingham's Napa Valley?
    Clearly you haven’t been to Dudley.
    And Brum had Hollywood before LA.....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Christ, he can't even get his 'I was belt and braces prepared for No Deal & look what those naughty terrorists have done' strategy right.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    eristdoof said:

    rpjs said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    I follow American news closely. They too have culture wars, and they too have a weird class of people using identity politics to deconstruct their own hardwon freedoms. BUT they have that Constituion. A vital bulwark against the madness. Plus they have a more vibrant economy. Especially in California, where I’d go. Maybe Santa Barbara.
    California is generally badly run. Its schools are on a par with those of Mississippi, it has almost the highest State taxes in the USA, its infrastructure is falling apart, it's overregulated, and over-unionised.

    It's great if you've got enough money to ignore these failings.
    That’s true about all of the US: it’s a great place to live if you have money.
    Even if you have money, in tghe US you often have to work longer hours, commute for longer and have half the annual leave compared to comparable work in the UK and Europe.
    Not necessarily, I work similar hours, get as much, if not more vacation than I did in the UK, and my commute is infinitely less stressful as it no longer involves Southeastern (the subway is worse than the tube I grant you). OK, so my employer is a European company, but my T&Cs were pretty much the same at my last job which was an American company.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Christ, everything has to be about him doesn't it?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    I don't think that's cricket.
    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1106214740425089024
    With the ERG's political nous, the other MPs will probably pass it - just to spite them.....
    Or the ERG might end up voting for it by mistake.
    Some of them seem to have enjoyed making impossible promises during a referendum campaign a lot more than the challenges of delivering on them afterwards.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited March 2019
    His comments are very funny, in the context of how much she's invested in him, and he knows that.

    He's ever the unforgiving political clown-provocateur.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Christ, he can't even get his 'I was belt and braces prepared for No Deal & look what those naughty terrorists have done' strategy right.
    Germans, playing the long game again.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    edited March 2019
    rpjs said:

    eristdoof said:

    rpjs said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    This is infinitely depressing. We have lost. We have no backbone. The Enlightenment is over. Now comes the Darkening.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1106196762690314240?s=21

    Imagine the furore and outrage if another school had caved into pressure from protesters and stopped teaching classes on Islam...
    An utter disgrace.
    It is
    If I were 25 years old, I would emigrate tomorrow. Britain is finished. Europe is finished. Stagnation and religious strife await.

    I’d go to America. Where English freedoms and the Enlightenment are still, thank god, protected by that Constitution. And I’d buy lots of guns.

    Or I’d go to Asia. The future.
    You might want to look more closely at American news before making that decision.

    I follow American news closely. They too have culture wars, and they too have a weird class of people using identity politics to deconstruct their own hardwon freedoms. BUT they have that Constituion. A vital bulwark against the madness. Plus they have a more vibrant economy. Especially in California, where I’d go. Maybe Santa Barbara.
    California is generally badly run. Its schools are on a par with those of Mississippi, it has almost the highest State taxes in the USA, its infrastructure is falling apart, it's overregulated, and over-unionised.

    It's great if you've got enough money to ignore these failings.
    That’s true about all of the US: it’s a great place to live if you have money.
    Even if you have money, in tghe US you often have to work longer hours, commute for longer and have half the annual leave compared to comparable work in the UK and Europe.
    Not necessarily, I work similar hours, get as much, if not more vacation than I did in the UK, and my commute is infinitely less stressful as it no longer involves Southeastern (the subway is worse than the tube I grant you). OK, so my employer is a European company, but my T&Cs were pretty much the same at my last job which was an American company.
    Overall, the standard of living is about a third higher in the US than it is here, but probably worse there the bottom quarter of the population than it is here.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    Turned on the TV to watch the Commons.

    Managed 5 minutes. TV off again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Well yes, but the House of Commons' own expressed view on the subject is clearly going to be a highly relevant consideration for the chair. The Bryant amendment seems highly risky to me for that reason.
    The full section in Erskine may seems to allow for someone suitably creative to bring back the same thing, or if the house says we just want to, or the underlying situation has changed. If it wants to do it again it can find a way. But it all still hinges on Bercow.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,716
    kle4 said:

    Christ, everything has to be about him doesn't it?
    Actually, she probably did, and look where that's got her!

    Afternoon everyone.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Christ, he can't even get his 'I was belt and braces prepared for No Deal & look what those naughty terrorists have done' strategy right.
    Germans, playing the long game again.....
    It's a British bomb.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    _Anazina_ said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    Think yourself lucky we haven't got 650 Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs
    Why? – nowt wrong with AOC. She has got serious game and would one considered a centre-left moderate were she European.
    She represents America's future far more than Trump and his base do.
This discussion has been closed.