Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
Nope. That was in line with all the professional estimates, including neutral posters on here.
Go on give us a link to 270K that wasn't posted by you.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
Nope. That was in line with all the professional estimates, including neutral posters on here.
It will never pass. No dealers have no reason to, and remainers are holding true to the faith, content they will not receive most of the blame if we no deal as a result.
The statement that the deal and no deal are disaster and catastrophe respectively means that anyone else must give up on Brexit at all - Labour members want that, as do most of their MPs, but that seems beyond them taking up as an official position.
OK.
So what happens next?
Will Justing Greening desert the Conservative Party for the TIGgers, and will Remainers looks to put a caretaker "government of national (remainer) unity" in place?
I think he’s right.
Non-starter. Corbyn would quite reasonably insist on leading at alternative administration, which would be unacceptable to any Tory.
I was referring to kle4.
Not enough ERG and DUP’ers have (or ever will) smell the coffee. And many of them think the coffee isn’t even there to be smelt.
So the Deal won’t pass, and we will end up revoking and remaining.
They will then start blaming people (including me) for the failure of Brexit.
I will do my best to deselect them.
The PM will not revoke. I am certain of that.
Besides, it’s not even clear she could, legally speaking.
She won’t. I mentioned that as the inevitable endgame.
All sorts of parliamentary and electoral routes to get there.
Casino, we differ on this, you'll remember but I hope we can remain friends, whoever is right.
I shall be addressing Mrs JackW at 20:15 to advise her that a short extension to her husbands earthly presence is anticipated after a deal passed the medical authorities ....
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Are you talking about crowds of shoppers on Oxford Street?
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
And you of course were an entirely neutral and objective observer as a participant.
The reason this lie got traction is because the police decided not to get involved in estimating the numbers. Because politics.
I have had it with the ERG and May needs to shift and make it her Deal or revoke and No Brexit not her Deal or No Deal if it is to have a chance of getting through, though if Labour shift on the WA but seek to change the PD it could still have an alternative avenue I suppose
As an aside, I think the most difficult political skill is, to paraphrase the gambler, "knowing when to walk away and knowing when to run". Perhaps the notion becomes that no one else could do the job but if you accept all political careers end in failure the notion of not overstaying your welcome becomes more critical.
Part of me wonders - IF May promised to resign the day after the WA cleared the Commons, whether that would be the answer. Her head might be the price worth paying to preserve Conservative unity and fulfill the democratic decision of 23/6/16.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
Nope. That was in line with all the professional estimates, including neutral posters on here.
Go on give us a link to 270K that wasn't posted by you.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Except he does, because he is a spokesman for 10 other MPs and they are not. Independent Independents are not coordinated, but the Tiggers are, and a swing group of 11 MPs is significant. Entitlement to be there is meaningless, the issue would be does he have anything to add to the discussion. Given he potentially carries with him as many votes as the LDs, I'd say yes.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
And you of course were an entirely neutral and objective observer as a participant.
The reason this lie got traction is because the police decided not to get involved in estimating the numbers. Because politics.
Still waiting for all those neutral links stating it was 270K that you referred to CS. Where are they?
It will never pass. No dealers have no reason to, and remainers are holding true to the faith, content they will not receive most of the blame if we no deal as a result.
The statement that the deal and no deal are disaster and catastrophe respectively means that anyone else must give up on Brexit at all - Labour members want that, as do most of their MPs, but that seems beyond them taking up as an official position.
OK.
So what happens next?
Will Justing Greening desert the Conservative Party for the TIGgers, and will Remainers looks to put a caretaker "government of national (remainer) unity" in place?
I think he’s right.
Non-starter. Corbyn would quite reasonably insist on leading at alternative administration, which would be unacceptable to any Tory.
I was referring to kle4.
Not enough ERG and DUP’ers have (or ever will) smell the coffee. And many of them think the coffee isn’t even there to be smelt.
So the Deal won’t pass, and we will end up revoking and remaining.
They will then start blaming people (including me) for the failure of Brexit.
I will do my best to deselect them.
The PM will not revoke. I am certain of that.
Besides, it’s not even clear she could, legally speaking.
She won’t. I mentioned that as the inevitable endgame.
All sorts of parliamentary and electoral routes to get there.
Casino, we differ on this, you'll remember but I hope we can remain friends, whoever is right.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
And you of course were an entirely neutral and objective observer as a participant.
The reason this lie got traction is because the police decided not to get involved in estimating the numbers. Because politics.
Still waiting for all those neutral links stating it was 270K that you referred to CS. Where are they?
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Does it matter? Corbyn demanded a meeting, and then walked out.
Seems May has told the leaders and the Tig2 that she will leave with no deal. The Tig2 believe her.
I don't believe her. If the Tiggers do, puts them in a bind as they cannot vote for the deal given their reasons for setting up the peoples vote group. So nothing has changed and they are back to hoping Labour and the Griever tendency can wrestle things away from May.
Seems May has told the leaders and the Tig2 that she will leave with no deal. The Tig2 believe her.
I think she would as well. I think she does take her pledge to leave incredibly seriously. Now that might be massively misguided, particularly as I think she believes no deal is a bad outcome. But delivering Brexit overrides everything else in TMWorld. I’ve said it before - it’s a legacy thing.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
The October march was unexpectedly large. The organisers anticipated something like 100k, and clearly there were many many more than that. I have been in crowds over 100 000 before and this was multiples of that. The most remarkeable bit was how peaceful and self policing it was, as the crowd far exceeded the numbers of stewards. Apart from stickering the Cabinet Office with "Bollocks to Brexit" stickers there was no trouble at all. All very civilised and British, and a stark contrast to Tommy Robinsons mob of Neon Nazis.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Does Parliament know something we don't?
From that page
Register to vote To vote in local, national and EU elections, you must be registered to vote.
It takes less than 5 minutes.
More likely that the builders of the site view anyone looking at petitions, let alone signing them, as qualified potential customers for the franchise.
Corbyn really wants no deal - lets walk out of talks to avoid that
Whether he wants no deal or not storming out seems very much to the sort of faux dramatic gesture one makes if you are not serious (though I doubt he was the only one there who was not serious, May included). If the Tiggers had not been there he'd probably storm out because there were no vol-au-vents being served.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
No, because those took place before any decision had been made in Parliament. The nation has voted to leave, in a referendum promised in the winning party’s manifesto, prior to which it was made clear that the decision would be implemented either way. Protesting the implementation of that decision is protesting democracy.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
The October march was unexpectedly large. The organisers anticipated something like 100k, and clearly there were many many more than that. I have been in crowds over 100 000 before and this was multiples of that. The most remarkeable bit was how peaceful and self policing it was, as the crowd far exceeded the numbers of stewards. Apart from stickering the Cabinet Office with "Bollocks to Brexit" stickers there was no trouble at all. All very civilised and British, and a stark contrast to Tommy Robinsons mob of Neon Nazis.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
The 100k was expectations management so the organisers could report an “unexpected” “surge” in numbers on the day.
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
No, because those took place before any decision had been made in Parliament. The nation has voted to leave, in a referendum promised in the winning party’s manifesto, prior to which it was made clear that the decision would be implemented either way. Protesting the implementation of that decision is protesting democracy.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
There's 11 of them in a group. That is clearly different than being completely individual. They don't deserve being treated as a party as they are not one, but are you seriously saying inviting the spokesman of a group of coordinating MPs which equals the numbers of LDs, is treating them like a party rather than just acknowledging they can delivery 11 votes for something? I don't believe that.
People don't seem to object to Lucas being included in things either.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
Seems May has told the leaders and the Tig2 that she will leave with no deal. The Tig2 believe her.
I think she would as well. I think she does take her pledge to leave incredibly seriously. Now that might be massively misguided, particularly as I think she believes no deal is a bad outcome. But delivering Brexit overrides everything else in TMWorld. I’ve said it before - it’s a legacy thing.
It’s definitely a legacy thing - she will either by a leader who suffered and delivered a better future or far more likely remember as the worst PM in history and the cause of the break up of the United Kingdom.
It will never pass. No dealers have no reason to, and remainers are holding true to the faith, content they will not receive most of the blame if we no deal as a result.
The statement that the deal and no deal are disaster and catastrophe respectively means that anyone else must give up on Brexit at all - Labour members want that, as do most of their MPs, but that seems beyond them taking up as an official position.
OK.
So what happens next?
Will Justing Greening desert the Conservative Party for the TIGgers, and will Remainers looks to put a caretaker "government of national (remainer) unity" in place?
I think he’s right.
Non-starter. Corbyn would quite reasonably insist on leading at alternative administration, which would be unacceptable to any Tory.
I was referring to kle4.
Not enough ERG and DUP’ers have (or ever will) smell the coffee. And many of them think the coffee isn’t even there to be smelt.
So the Deal won’t pass, and we will end up revoking and remaining.
They will then start blaming people (including me) for the failure of Brexit.
I will do my best to deselect them.
The PM will not revoke. I am certain of that.
Besides, it’s not even clear she could, legally speaking.
She won’t. I mentioned that as the inevitable endgame.
All sorts of parliamentary and electoral routes to get there.
Casino, we differ on this, you'll remember but I hope we can remain friends, whoever is right.
C4 News saying the PM's statement will be a reiteration of her position.
Nothing has... etc etc
So what was all that nonsense earlier about "cancel your dinner" , "it's going to be big", etc ?
A little dickie bird tells me May might have initially been trailed to say something else.
Seems to be the way of things. She intends to do X, we're hear of leaks of the ERG or Cabinet Remainers hitting the roof, and she shows up to deliver a new dance move.
If she moonwalks out of No.2 it's a sign things are going either very well, or very badly.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
The October march was unexpectedly large. The organisers anticipated something like 100k, and clearly there were many many more than that. I have been in crowds over 100 000 before and this was multiples of that. The most remarkeable bit was how peaceful and self policing it was, as the crowd far exceeded the numbers of stewards. Apart from stickering the Cabinet Office with "Bollocks to Brexit" stickers there was no trouble at all. All very civilised and British, and a stark contrast to Tommy Robinsons mob of Neon Nazis.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
And your “forces of light and dark” contrast between Remainers and Leavers is absolutely disgusting.
I could just as well highlight my absolute contempt for my fellow citizens who under a fit of pique decide to demonstrate their proclivity for Stockholm syndrome by marching with the Traitor’s Apron, rather than their own nation’s flag.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
The October march was unexpectedly large. The organisers anticipated something like 100k, and clearly there were many many more than that. I have been in crowds over 100 000 before and this was multiples of that. The most remarkeable bit was how peaceful and self policing it was, as the crowd far exceeded the numbers of stewards. Apart from stickering the Cabinet Office with "Bollocks to Brexit" stickers there was no trouble at all. All very civilised and British, and a stark contrast to Tommy Robinsons mob of Neon Nazis.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
The 100k was expectations management so the organisers could report an “unexpected” “surge” in numbers on the day.
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
It seems pointless to even estimate crowd numbers. Protestors always say it is one number, police estimates are then much much lower, stories are run on it being difficulty to estimate, and if someone is committed to the most or least impressive number it never persuades anyone else anyway. It was clearly a lot, beyond that no one will agree.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
A pretty lame excuse for not at least hearing out what might have been said. What would it have costed to stick around for 10 minutes, and then afterward confirm it was a farce and May was indulging in trickery?
Corbyn is no fool (no laughter at the back), and he is no newbie to politics at the highest level anymore. Stomping out like that on such a pretext is very likely to have just been posturing, if he was even slightly concerned about being there he would have objected but stayed.
The DUP would probably approve though, they love posturing.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
The 100k was expectations management so the organisers could report an “unexpected” “surge” in numbers on the day.
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
No, it was genuinely unexpectedly much larger than the June event. Certainly the very light police presence and lack of preparation by London Transport showed that those organisations did not expect so many. Fortunately the supreme good humour of the crowd prevented problems.
You know 16 million voted Remain and that many are as passionate as you are for Leave. Wy are you so surprised that they want to publically express their views?
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
The 100k was expectations management so the organisers could report an “unexpected” “surge” in numbers on the day.
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
It seems pointless to even estimate crowd numbers. Protestors always say it is one number, police estimates are then much much lower, stories are run on it being difficulty to estimate, and if someone is committed to the most or least impressive number it never persuades anyone else anyway. It was clearly a lot, beyond that no one will agree.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Freedom of peaceful and protest are fundamental parts of a working democracy.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
The 100k was expectations management so the organisers could report an “unexpected” “surge” in numbers on the day.
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
No, it was genuinely unexpectedly much larger than the June event. Certainly the very light police presence and lack of preparation by London Transport showed that those organisations did not expect so many. Fortunately the supreme good humour of the crowd prevented problems.
You know 16 million voted Remain and that many are as passionate as you are for Leave. Wy are you so surprised that they want to publically express their views?
Is it pissing it down in London, or has someone decided that watching May open a door and walk nervously to a lectern in the middle of the street doesn't quite have the gravitas for this moment of national crisis?
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
No, because those took place before any decision had been made in Parliament. The nation has voted to leave, in a referendum promised in the winning party’s manifesto, prior to which it was made clear that the decision would be implemented either way. Protesting the implementation of that decision is protesting democracy.
That’s probably the silliest thing I have ever read on here. There are plenty of protests against settled policy contained in manifestos or referendums. Given that most people in Northern Ireland vote to stay in the union are republican demonstrations inherently undemocratic? Independence protests in Scotland or Quebec? Or anti-EEC demonstrations after the 1975 referendum? Or protests against the Poll Tax? I could go on. Protests are partly there to highlight causes and change views. They are asking for another vote on Saturday. It’s pushing the bounds of credulity to cal that “protrsting democracy”.
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
Perhaps attending and participating in the meeting and then expressing displeasure at tiggers invite might have been more a reasonable response given the circumstances? Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
No, because those took place before any decision had been made in Parliament. The nation has voted to leave, in a referendum promised in the winning party’s manifesto, prior to which it was made clear that the decision would be implemented either way. Protesting the implementation of that decision is protesting democracy.
That’s probably the silliest thing I have ever read on here. There are plenty of protests against settled policy contained in manifestos or referendums. Given that most people in Northern Ireland vote to stay in the union are republican demonstrations inherently undemocratic? Independence protests in Scotland or Quebec? Or anti-EEC demonstrations after the 1975 referendum? Or protests against the Poll Tax? I could go on. Protests are partly there to highlight causes and change views. They are asking for another vote on Saturday. It’s pushing the bounds of credulity to cal that “protrsting democracy”.
Indeed. I thought the batshit might be reducing as we get closer to MayDay, but perhaps not.
Edit/ and the map of the signatures is interesting.
Why are we getting excited about 60,000 signatures on that?
I could see that easily it topping a million soon from those who hitherto supported a 2nd referendum.
70,000 now....
So what?
Unless the number gets huge I don't think it matters one iota, but it is fun watching you get exasperated by it. It is the People's Vote march all over again. I assume you are not going to challenge the numbers though on this are you?
I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.
I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.
Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
Nope. That was in line with all the professional estimates, including neutral posters on here.
Go on give us a link to 270K that wasn't posted by you.
Link to the GLA report? Have you got that? Does it exist? Context? Or are just quoting other Brexiteers like yourself who just made up the numbers. All the other quotes of numbers - Are you just ignoring them or just believing stuff you want to believe?
So we now know that Corbyn is willing to call murderers and terrorists his friends, but refuses to be in a meeting with someone who served Labour faithfully for years ...
So we now know that Corbyn is willing to call murderers and terrorists his friends, but refuses to be in a meeting with someone who served Labour faithfully for years ...
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
So all you have is excuses
I am not a Corbyn fan anyway - but can see his point of view on this. If Caroline Lucas was there as the sole Green MP , every Independent ought to have been included.
So we now know that Corbyn is willing to call murderers and terrorists his friends, but refuses to be in a meeting with someone who served Labour faithfully for years ...
Maybe he got word his jam was boiling over? Or that he has done his 8hr shift for the day already?
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
So all you have is excuses
I am not a Corbyn fan anyway - but can see his point of view on this. If Caroline Lucas was there as the sole Green MP , every Independent ought to have been included.
In other news have just won a Gold and Silver award for our products here at the Free From Food Awards. No longer care about Brexit. Getting slammed. On the free bar #drinktoforgetbrexit
So we now know that Corbyn is willing to call murderers and terrorists his friends, but refuses to be in a meeting with someone who served Labour faithfully for years ...
Not entirely. I don't see that Chuka Umunna had any more entitlement to be at such a meeting than others such as Frank Field, Jared Omara - or indeed Fiona Onasanya.
Throwing his toys out of pram is such a good look at a time of national crisis eh?
Why should they be treated preferentially compared with other Independent MPs? They have no status as a political party.
I repeat the question
Had all the non alligned MPs been invited, he might have taken a different view. There are reports that the agreed terms of the meeting were not adhered to.
So all you have is excuses
I am not a Corbyn fan anyway - but can see his point of view on this. If Caroline Lucas was there as the sole Green MP , every Independent ought to have been included.
You need to understamd how the public view his childish behaviour. Not fit for office
We need the equivalent of the US 25th amendment - removal of PM due to inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the Office - with the office devolving on the deputy PM. Needs a two-thirds majority of the House.
If people want to advertise their self-regard and immaturity, that’s fine. It’s tiresome that they block up the centre of the capital while doing so.
Do you think those who marched against the Iraq War and those who marched in favour of the Countryside (including a considerable number of Conservatives) were advertising their self regard and immaturity?
No, because those took place before any decision had been made in Parliament. The nation has voted to leave, in a referendum promised in the winning party’s manifesto, prior to which it was made clear that the decision would be implemented either way. Protesting the implementation of that decision is protesting democracy.
That’s probably the silliest thing I have ever read on here. There are plenty of protests against settled policy contained in manifestos or referendums. Given that most people in Northern Ireland vote to stay in the union are republican demonstrations inherently undemocratic? Independence protests in Scotland or Quebec? Or anti-EEC demonstrations after the 1975 referendum? Or protests against the Poll Tax? I could go on. Protests are partly there to highlight causes and change views. They are asking for another vote on Saturday. It’s pushing the bounds of credulity to cal that “protrsting democracy”.
In a country with a free press and competitive elections, most protest is seldom justified. In authoritarian regimes, it’s an act of bravery.
They can be a very easy way to lose support, as well as gain it. I remember the huge amount of junk left on my morning walk to work after the anti-austerity protests and the last Remoaner fest. It didn’t endear me to either.
Comments
It was the second biggest political demonstration in British history, and the forecast looks good for Saturday to be a similar size.
It really seems to bother him that so many people have genuine affection for the EU and are happy to protest in its favour. I am sure there will be plenty of international news cover again.
Bodes really well for when he is PM.
I'm starting to rethink my low ratings of Gordon Brown. They are that bad (and I don't just mean Labour...)
Whether you are pro or anti Brexit, I think we can all agree that we are being led by a bunch of clueless f*ckwits....
The reason this lie got traction is because the police decided not to get involved in estimating the numbers. Because politics.
Part of me wonders - IF May promised to resign the day after the WA cleared the Commons, whether that would be the answer. Her head might be the price worth paying to preserve Conservative unity and fulfill the democratic decision of 23/6/16.
Corbyn really wants no deal - lets walk out of talks to avoid that
The October march was unexpectedly large. The organisers anticipated something like 100k, and clearly there were many many more than that. I have been in crowds over 100 000 before and this was multiples of that. The most remarkeable bit was how peaceful and self policing it was, as the crowd far exceeded the numbers of stewards. Apart from stickering the Cabinet Office with "Bollocks to Brexit" stickers there was no trouble at all. All very civilised and British, and a stark contrast to Tommy Robinsons mob of Neon Nazis.
I am quite looking forward to Saturday, have my flags and signs ready, and have invested in a new megaphone. Mrs Foxy wants to march with the Tiggers, so we shall.
Plus TIG are clearly in discussion with the EC to become a party and gave confirmed they will be one. Corbyn is playing games
These people are advised by the likes of Alastair Campbell, know what they are doing when it comes to spin and are very, very good at it.
A little dickie bird tells me May might have initially been trailed to say something else.
People don't seem to object to Lucas being included in things either.
If she moonwalks out of No.2 it's a sign things are going either very well, or very badly.
I could just as well highlight my absolute contempt for my fellow citizens who under a fit of pique decide to demonstrate their proclivity for Stockholm syndrome by marching with the Traitor’s Apron, rather than their own nation’s flag.
If he can't handle the presence of Chukka at a meeting, what use is he?
Corbyn is no fool (no laughter at the back), and he is no newbie to politics at the highest level anymore. Stomping out like that on such a pretext is very likely to have just been posturing, if he was even slightly concerned about being there he would have objected but stayed.
The DUP would probably approve though, they love posturing.
You know 16 million voted Remain and that many are as passionate as you are for Leave. Wy are you so surprised that they want to publically express their views?
So it’s up to us to challenge the propaganda.
I really hope tomorrow's headlines say "Corbyn refuses to meet May at moment of national crisis"
hope that works
Your confirmation bias far less so.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1108453417469599744
1. It’s Her Deal or No Deal?
2. It’s Her Deal or we remain?
3. Nothing has changed?
4. Election to be called?
5. She’s resigning?
6. Something else.
As soon as the final endgame is 100% clear, she is goneburgers.
Edit: She has stored up the strangest mix of grudging respect and absolute loathing - from all sides.
They can be a very easy way to lose support, as well as gain it. I remember the huge amount of junk left on my morning walk to work after the anti-austerity protests and the last Remoaner fest. It didn’t endear me to either.