I may not appear to have the first comment, but I think you'll find overwhelming support for my post to be considered the first response on a Parliamentary website petition.
Very difficult seat to campaign in; it's basically South Powys a very rural and mountainous area. A by-election would probably see activity unlike that seat has seen for a long time.
But no doubt, the Lib Dems would be in it to win it, not least because it would add beautifully to the narrative about the "will of the people" having changed - like Richmond Park was - and I wonder how hard the divided and de-motivated Tory party would be able to campaign at the moment.
As he pleaded guilty in a Magistrate's Court, he can't be given a 12 month sentence.
So, unless he resigns voluntarily, voters will have to go down the route of a recall petition.
As I understand it magistrates' courts can impose a maximum 12 month sentence where there has been two or more offences committed or 6 for just one. Davies has pleaded guilty to two offences but the chances of that maximum sentence are nil.
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
I don't know if you heard it but the sycophantic guffawing that occompanied the "jokes" from Tusk and Juncker last night was something to be heard. It was about as real as Trump's hairline.
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
IIRC he had a legitimate expense of £700 which would have been approved.
But he didn't submit an invoice and would have not been reimbursed if he didn't submit on time, so he created two fake invoices so he wouldn't be out of pocket by £700.
Absolute bonkers you've trashed your reputation and career for £700 when you're earning nearly 80k a year plus expenses.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
IIRC he had a legitimate expense of £700 which would have been approved.
But he didn't submit an invoice and would have not been reimbursed if he didn't submit on time, so he created two fake invoices so he wouldn't be out of pocket by £700.
Absolute bonkers you've trashed your reputation and career for £700 when you're earning nearly 80k a year plus expenses.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
The government is not thinking. Kwarteng was channelling May, and she appears to have abandoned rational deliberation some time ago.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
The government is not thinking. Kwarteng was channelling May, and she appears to have abandoned rational deliberation some time ago.
IMHO, they should have successive votes and just keep eliminating the option that gets fewest votes.
That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
I don't know if you heard it but the sycophantic guffawing that occompanied the "jokes" from Tusk and Juncker last night was something to be heard. It was about as real as Trump's hairline.
The EU's media operation is pretty diabolical. It expects a higher level of respect for the institutions than the US media to the US President. This seems to be observed by most of the media of the member states and their own internal media provider, and it sees the British media including pro-Remain outlets as a thorn in the side when they ask unwanted questions. I was pro-Remain in the referendum and would probably vote the same if there were another referendum, but the way the EU attempts to portray itself as an infallible force for good does not wash with me.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
If we have indicative votes on a bunch of options, and they all fail, what then? For it to be useful, you have to start ruling them out on the basis of the those votes- and that's why May has avoided this approach. Because she's worried- correctly- that her deal would be one of the early options to be ruled out.
I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
If we have indicative votes on a bunch of options, and they all fail, what then? For it to be useful, you have to start ruling them out on the basis of the those votes- and that's why May has avoided this approach. Because she's worried- correctly- that her deal would be one of the early options to be ruled out.
But that's why I was suggesting votes on the other real or imaginary options first.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
The government is not thinking. Kwarteng was channelling May, and she appears to have abandoned rational deliberation some time ago.
IMHO, they should have successive votes and just keep eliminating the option that gets fewest votes.
Is Ann Robinson still around. She could do a special edition of The Weakest Link.
That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
I don't know if you heard it but the sycophantic guffawing that occompanied the "jokes" from Tusk and Juncker last night was something to be heard. It was about as real as Trump's hairline.
The EU's media operation is pretty diabolical. It expects a higher level of respect for the institutions than the US media to the US President. This seems to be observed by most of the media of the member states and their own internal media provider, and it sees the British media including pro-Remain outlets as a thorn in the side when they ask unwanted questions. I was pro-Remain in the referendum and would probably vote the same if there were another referendum, but the way the EU attempts to portray itself as an infallible force for good does not wash with me.
Agreed. Even as a pro-European I think the EU is far too self-congratulatory. That said, so is the British right wing. If institutions are to improve they must first be cognisant of their fallibilities.
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
IIRC he had a legitimate expense of £700 which would have been approved.
But he didn't submit an invoice and would have not been reimbursed if he didn't submit on time, so he created two fake invoices so he wouldn't be out of pocket by £700.
Absolute bonkers you've trashed your reputation and career for £700 when you're earning nearly 80k a year plus expenses.
which MP was accused of splitting expenses between invoices to stay under the cap?
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
If we have indicative votes on a bunch of options, and they all fail, what then? For it to be useful, you have to start ruling them out on the basis of the those votes- and that's why May has avoided this approach. Because she's worried- correctly- that her deal would be one of the early options to be ruled out.
But that's why I was suggesting votes on the other real or imaginary options first.
I think you have to take away the ability to vote 'No' So from these options, what do you vote for - can be more than one, but if none of the options on the table are acceptable to you, then you're abstaining as you have no view between the choices being voted for.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
If we have indicative votes on a bunch of options, and they all fail, what then? For it to be useful, you have to start ruling them out on the basis of the those votes- and that's why May has avoided this approach. Because she's worried- correctly- that her deal would be one of the early options to be ruled out.
But that's why I was suggesting votes on the other real or imaginary options first.
The order of the votes doesn't really matter. May has been happy to vote on MV again despite it having already been voted on, and the ERG are clearly considering that No Deal is still an option despite that having been voted on. Nobody's going to consider an option ruled out just because it was voted on first. What they might consider to rule out an option is if all options were voted on and it had the biggest margin of defeat, and there's where the risk lies for May and her deal.
Sadly it won't matter if it reached 60 million. Leavers and faux-remainers like Mrs May have the result they want and they will stick with it even if it meant complete meltdown. They put party before country and they are reflected by Mr Thicky and his Marxist cohorts on the opposite benches.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
If we have indicative votes on a bunch of options, and they all fail, what then? For it to be useful, you have to start ruling them out on the basis of the those votes- and that's why May has avoided this approach. Because she's worried- correctly- that her deal would be one of the early options to be ruled out.
They should run all the options (ok, 50 MPs to nominate an option) against all the other options and see if there's a condorcet winner.
That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
I don't know if you heard it but the sycophantic guffawing that occompanied the "jokes" from Tusk and Juncker last night was something to be heard. It was about as real as Trump's hairline.
The EU's media operation is pretty diabolical. It expects a higher level of respect for the institutions than the US media to the US President. This seems to be observed by most of the media of the member states and their own internal media provider, and it sees the British media including pro-Remain outlets as a thorn in the side when they ask unwanted questions. I was pro-Remain in the referendum and would probably vote the same if there were another referendum, but the way the EU attempts to portray itself as an infallible force for good does not wash with me.
Agreed. Even as a pro-European I think the EU is far too self-congratulatory. That said, so is the British right wing. If institutions are to improve they must first be cognisant of their fallibilities.
Exactly, and that banner is a symptom of it. Rather than a simple piece of graphic design and a nice subtle "25 years of the EEA" they've made it look like kids will jump for joy at the EEA. Way too far for the occasion.
I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
And something of Liberal tradition like other rural Welsh seats - the Liberals polled 20% in 1945 for example
Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
I will probably just take the jail time for my next one. I went to boarding school and served on Ark Royal so I am well accustomed to terrible food and sleeping in close proximity to very enthusiastic wanking.
That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
I don't know if you heard it but the sycophantic guffawing that occompanied the "jokes" from Tusk and Juncker last night was something to be heard. It was about as real as Trump's hairline.
The EU's media operation is pretty diabolical. It expects a higher level of respect for the institutions than the US media to the US President. This seems to be observed by most of the media of the member states and their own internal media provider, and it sees the British media including pro-Remain outlets as a thorn in the side when they ask unwanted questions. I was pro-Remain in the referendum and would probably vote the same if there were another referendum, but the way the EU attempts to portray itself as an infallible force for good does not wash with me.
Agreed. Even as a pro-European I think the EU is far too self-congratulatory. That said, so is the British right wing. If institutions are to improve they must first be cognisant of their fallibilities.
Exactly, and that banner is a symptom of it. Rather than a simple piece of graphic design and a nice subtle "25 years of the EEA" they've made it look like kids will jump for joy at the EEA. Way too far for the occasion.
It’s a video. That photo just happens to capture one still.
Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
It's a great site, worth making the trip to celebrate
I will probably just take the jail time for my next one. I went to boarding school and served on Ark Royal so I am well accustomed to terrible food and sleeping in close proximity to very enthusiastic wanking.
Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
A little more on why I've moved on from the deal somewhat. It is simply the degree of chaos that this stage has brought in the last few weeks and the prospect that this political dystopia continues through the trade deal at various points. I don't think we can sustain this for years. Now, I have some sympathy with the SeanT view that this stage is the hard bit, the cliffiest edge, the stage that asks most of the existential stuff about who we are and who we want to be, and that discussing technical trade details really ought to be more background work. I said as much in December 17, when we had sufficient progress, imagining us almost gambolling through 2018 putting lots and lots of flesh on the Political Declaration.
Well, that thought was well deserving of the 'Commented on by Donkeys' treatment, so I cannot have any confidence that it will be true after the exit deal is signed, not least because a new Eurosceptic leader is still quite likely to faff about trying to pick at the seams of the WA even if it does pass.
Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
I knew a man who lost a £150,000 job for fiddling £80 of expenses, although he was not prosecuted.
I once had to fire a facilities manager who had nicked a couple of electric shower units. Probably worth £200 or so, he wouldn't have been anywhere near £150k but lost job, no reference, crazy.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
You are correct, Richard, but you are making the schoolboy error of attempting to apply logic to the deranged machinations of MayDay's shambolic administration.
Three million and rising. I think that even Brexiteers should sin this: Revoke and then consider starting again but with a competent team in charge, but no one can be happy with present arangements
Sometimes it is far easier to justify the little lies than the big lies in your mind.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
IIRC he had a legitimate expense of £700 which would have been approved.
But he didn't submit an invoice and would have not been reimbursed if he didn't submit on time, so he created two fake invoices so he wouldn't be out of pocket by £700.
Absolute bonkers you've trashed your reputation and career for £700 when you're earning nearly 80k a year plus expenses.
I would expect his expenses were only investigated because they were, in the round, considered excessive or suspicious, and only a token few instances where there is good proof pushed to trial.
I used to be in charge of expenses management for a very large company and dealt with a fair few cases over the years. They were difficult to prove but often fascinating. Quite often they seemed to be driven by a sense of entitlement or overwork or underrecognition; interviewing people about the detail of their claims managers would keep returning to how important or busy they were, and often needed dragging back to the detail of what they had spent and what they had claimed. Often people started small and having got away from it moved on to overclaiming by larger and larger amounts until they eventually got found out.
I had an arrangement with payroll where they would copy me the claims of the five highest value claimants each month, and that was how we identified much of the fraud. People simply got greedy. I remember one case where a female senior manager had a pattern of regular trips she made; like most people she rounded an 85 mile trip up to 90 miles, but over time the distances she claimed for such trips increased until she was routinely claiming double the actual mileage for every trip. Together with lots of other stuff that eventually pushed her into the five highest claimants and hence she was caught.
Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
I hope you will keep a close eye on the cops trying to underplay the numbers Mike?
Three million and rising. I think that even Brexiteers should sin this: Revoke and then consider starting again but with a competent team in charge, but no one can be happy with present arangements
3 million is still 13 million than Remain hot in the referendum, Norway Plus is still far likelier than Revoke
Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.
I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
That bit is nowadays... Labour around Cardiff/Swansea/Wrexham; then the empty bits are split between PC in the west and Tories in the east (plus Pembrokeshire.. aka "Little England Beyond Wales")
Comments
So, unless he resigns voluntarily, voters will have to go down the route of a recall petition.
He's worse than Fiona Onasanya.
They really want Layla Moran in place for this, though - both helps win and gives her a nice winning vibe.
But no doubt, the Lib Dems would be in it to win it, not least because it would add beautifully to the narrative about the "will of the people" having changed - like Richmond Park was - and I wonder how hard the divided and de-motivated Tory party would be able to campaign at the moment.
All for £700.
Do we actually know the details of what the claims were for? I've seen very little information about this case - is it actually black and white or do we need to know the whole story?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/665887979/boris-johnson-brexit-candle
That looks more like a cross between Ted Heath and Jeremy Clarkson!
But he didn't submit an invoice and would have not been reimbursed if he didn't submit on time, so he created two fake invoices so he wouldn't be out of pocket by £700.
Absolute bonkers you've trashed your reputation and career for £700 when you're earning nearly 80k a year plus expenses.
Labour’s Karen Buck asks if the government is still committed to going ahead with the indicative votes process as promised by David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, last week.
Kwarteng says he agrees that that should go ahead, but he suggests only if MPs vote down the deal for a third time.
I don't understand the government's thinking here. Surely it would be better to hold any indicative votes first, in order to try to close off some or even all of the other options? The big problem all along in getting the deal agreed is that MPs have been clinging to contradictory fantasies about alternatives.
The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
Justin webb
Democrats are in danger of looking angrier than the president as they follow the lead of campus identity politics" (£)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/trump-s-opponents-are-falling-into-his-trap-hg7sgqpmb
Kwarteng was channelling May, and she appears to have abandoned rational deliberation some time ago.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
https://twitter.com/georgebowden/status/1109063884382572551?s=21
No wonder the economy's doing so well.
Anyway, I must be off.
which MP was accused of splitting expenses between invoices to stay under the cap?
The fine can now be 175% (yes one hundred and seventy five percent) of your weekly salary.
https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speeding-fine-calculator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum_by_constituency
https://twitter.com/slovakiaineu/status/1109041214710534145?s=21
Everything's fine, nothing to see, TM is a very good Prime Minister, we're all very happy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
Well, that thought was well deserving of the 'Commented on by Donkeys' treatment, so I cannot have any confidence that it will be true after the exit deal is signed, not least because a new Eurosceptic leader is still quite likely to faff about trying to pick at the seams of the WA even if it does pass.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47667080
The Jug Eared Nerd lasted longer than The Ludicrous Cox, so there's that.
I used to be in charge of expenses management for a very large company and dealt with a fair few cases over the years. They were difficult to prove but often fascinating. Quite often they seemed to be driven by a sense of entitlement or overwork or underrecognition; interviewing people about the detail of their claims managers would keep returning to how important or busy they were, and often needed dragging back to the detail of what they had spent and what they had claimed. Often people started small and having got away from it moved on to overclaiming by larger and larger amounts until they eventually got found out.
I had an arrangement with payroll where they would copy me the claims of the five highest value claimants each month, and that was how we identified much of the fraud. People simply got greedy. I remember one case where a female senior manager had a pattern of regular trips she made; like most people she rounded an 85 mile trip up to 90 miles, but over time the distances she claimed for such trips increased until she was routinely claiming double the actual mileage for every trip. Together with lots of other stuff that eventually pushed her into the five highest claimants and hence she was caught.