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SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2019 in General

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Third like Boris
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Why would she resign? She's still PM, she can still win confidence votes.

    She's no longer in charge of implementing Brexit, but who would want to be in charge of implementing Brexit?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    To continue the Civil War analogy from a thread or two ago, has a new Oliver come to save us from a leader who appears to believe she's been anointed by God to lead?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Because she might "enjoy" watching MPs make a bigger horlicks of it than she has?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    So IIUC Letwin gets to choose the voting system, so he can basically choose the result.
    * FPTP: TMay's deal
    * AV: Customs Union
    - Condorcet: TMay's deal subject to Remain vs Leave referendum
    - Approval voting: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    No doubt a very long time in the works - but still not great news for Boeing:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1110236613609705474
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Why would she resign? She's still PM, she can still win confidence votes.

    She's no longer in charge of implementing Brexit, but who would want to be in charge of implementing Brexit?
    Are you saying that the Commons would, effectively, say to her that she can run the country, but not be in charge of its most important issue of the early(isn, anyway) 21st Century?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Hopefully Letwin will find a park bin to dump Brexit in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15301859
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited March 2019
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Why would she resign? She's still PM, she can still win confidence votes.

    She's no longer in charge of implementing Brexit, but who would want to be in charge of implementing Brexit?
    Are you saying that the Commons would, effectively, say to her that she can run the country, but not be in charge of its most important issue of the early(isn, anyway) 21st Century?
    Yeah, why not? I mean, imagine there was no Brexit. She'd still want to be Prime Minister, right? It's even better than that, because everybody's got their eyes focused on Brexit, so for everything else she can do what she likes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    FPT:
    IanB2 said:

    There would be some logic in allowing MPs multiple votes, so that they could indicate a preference for all those options they were prepared to support. This might be a better way to identify where the consensus lies than forcing everyone to a first choice and then trying to transfer the votes about. In Letwin's place I would do that first and publish the results to inform whatever exhaustive or transferable process they decide to use.

    Hilary Benn on R4 appears to be describing something very like this
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Scott_P said:
    Would the paper ballot be anonymous?
    Would it be whipped?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Scott_P said:
    Would the paper ballot be anonymous?
    Would it be whipped?
    I've never named my ballot papers. Don't generally have them long enough. And I'm assuming if you whip paper it tears, so that would seem pointless.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Bercow was totally out of order last night in his comments on Greg Hands. I hope that, if we can get Brexit out of the way, he will announce his retirement.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    He's certainly made politics into a basket case.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited March 2019

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    So he's been given the bums-rush?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    I see Boris writing in today's Telegraph still believes no deal can have a two year transition period.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    He's certainly made politics into a basket case.
    He is a Testament as to how not to do it
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Corbyn is described as a virgin, despite all the wives?

    And the assumption that May will lead the Tories into any early GE should nicely wake up PB Tories this fine morning?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    Finally, a triumph for democracy as the People's Representatives seek to overturn the decadent populism of the electorate.

    Given how things have progressed generally, I anticipate the worst possible outcome (probably leaving in name only, with a campaign to rejoin and be shackled into the single currency. Oh, and the rise of the far right).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited March 2019
    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    IanB2 said:

    Corbyn is described as a virgin, despite all the wives?

    And the assumption that May will lead the Tories into any early GE should nicely wake up PB Tories this fine morning?
    Doesn't it worry you that you'll be led by Vince Cable? Serious question.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    An intelligent tweet by Michael White?

    Truly, we are in the end times.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Corbyn is described as a virgin, despite all the wives?

    And the assumption that May will lead the Tories into any early GE should nicely wake up PB Tories this fine morning?
    Doesn't it worry you that you'll be led by Vince Cable? Serious question.
    Definitely. He's due to be replaced in May as I understand it. Depends on when the election comes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Corbyn is described as a virgin, despite all the wives?

    And the assumption that May will lead the Tories into any early GE should nicely wake up PB Tories this fine morning?
    Doesn't it worry you that you'll be led by Vince Cable? Serious question.
    Definitely. He's due to be replaced in May as I understand it. Depends on when the election comes.
    The way things are going, he might be replaced BY May!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Why would she resign? She's still PM, she can still win confidence votes.

    She's no longer in charge of implementing Brexit, but who would want to be in charge of implementing Brexit?
    Are you saying that the Commons would, effectively, say to her that she can run the country, but not be in charge of its most important issue of the early(isn, anyway) 21st Century?
    The irony is her having appointed Boris as FS and then taking the biggest foreign issue away from the FCO
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited March 2019

    Scott_P said:
    Would the paper ballot be anonymous?
    Would it be whipped?
    Benn said secret at the time but published afterwards.

    So not so easy to whip, although both Labour and Tory are struggling to relinquish the habit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    I'd just like to know why nobody was actually checking boarding passes. Gross breach of security.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Why would she resign? She's still PM, she can still win confidence votes.

    She's no longer in charge of implementing Brexit, but who would want to be in charge of implementing Brexit?
    Are you saying that the Commons would, effectively, say to her that she can run the country, but not be in charge of its most important issue of the early(isn, anyway) 21st Century?
    The irony is her having appointed Boris as FS and then taking the biggest foreign issue away from the FCO
    Well you couldn't trust Boris with it. He is a buffoon.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited March 2019
    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    They did lodge the wrong flight plan, then followed it. The airlines have template docs for the flights they make regularly in the cockpit, and it appears as simple as having pulled out the wrong set of papers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    He made a desert and he called it peace

    (I know that’s about France but it’s still my favourite bit of political knockabout, along with Distaeli’s “range of exhausted volcanos”)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    👏
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    Ouch 🙉
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1110441204381032448

    If Brexit is a spasm of English Nationalism, is Revoke a spasm of English internationalism?

    Or something else?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    They did lodge the wrong flight plan, then followed it. The airlines have template docs for the flights they make regularly in the cockpit, and it appears as simple as having pulled out the wrong set of papers.
    Still amazed they got a landing slot without Edinburgh asking what the hell was going on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    He made a desert and he called it peace

    (I know that’s about France but it’s still my favourite bit of political knockabout, along with Distaeli’s “range of exhausted volcanos”)
    Mons Graupius was in France? Is that why we've never been able to find the bloody place? All these years of looking in Scotland...
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr B2

    "the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference."

    There's something far worse coming. It's the clash between voters' given preference and the MP's preference, despite the MP's lying promises. They promised to honour the referendum result. You might remember that - it was all over the newspapers not long ago.

    By comparison the LDs' promise about tuition fees was less brazen. At least they had the excuse of the coalition where they were only the junior partner. And this time, they were honestly anti-democratic from the beginning.

    The EU and our future in it is now irrelevant by comparison. MPs are forever tarnished by this.

    Expenses … a mere bagatelle. The world looks on and grimaces.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    CD13 said:

    Mr B2

    "the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference."

    There's something far worse coming. It's the clash between voters' given preference and the MP's preference, despite the MP's lying promises. They promised to honour the referendum result. You might remember that - it was all over the newspapers not long ago.

    By comparison the LDs' promise about tuition fees was less brazen. At least they had the excuse of the coalition where they were only the junior partner. And this time, they were honestly anti-democratic from the beginning.

    The EU and our future in it is now irrelevant by comparison. MPs are forever tarnished by this.

    Expenses … a mere bagatelle. The world looks on and grimaces.

    Which is why there will probably be a referendum at the end, to confirm the voters' preference.
  • DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    They did lodge the wrong flight plan, then followed it. The airlines have template docs for the flights they make regularly in the cockpit, and it appears as simple as having pulled out the wrong set of papers.
    Still amazed they got a landing slot without Edinburgh asking what the hell was going on.
    Why? When the flight plan was filed they got added to expected arrivals in Edinburgh. ATC at airports hasn't got time to check the incoming flights against the airline timetable.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    The previous day they flew to Edinburgh. Someone filed the previous day's flight plan by mistake. Mind you, if they'd been RyanAir they'd have simply said "Welcome to Dusseldorf (Turnhouse)!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    👏
    +1 - that was the best of a sorry parade.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    The irony is that they did. May got a deal which gave BMW unrestricted access to our market without tariffs for at least the transitional period and probably much longer. On the upside we got the continued glories of a £60bn a year trade deficit without having to pay for being members. I think that's called a win win.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. B2, should hold said referendum this year (for reasons of my wallet). That said, if I were plotting this particular scheme I'd go for a 2-3 year extension, then have the referendum as late as possible.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    BA said in a statement that the pilot was “following orders from Germany”

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/25/british-airways-flight-dusseldorf-lands-edinburgh--mistake
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    I'd just like to know why nobody was actually checking boarding passes. Gross breach of security.
    I think the cabin crew knew it was a dusseldorf flight, just the pilots who didn't!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    BA said in a statement that the pilot was “following orders from Germany”

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/25/british-airways-flight-dusseldorf-lands-edinburgh--mistake
    Very worrying.. "I was only obeying orders" Yikes
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1110441204381032448

    If Brexit is a spasm of English Nationalism, is Revoke a spasm of English internationalism?

    Or something else?

    Those in Northern Ireland and Scotland who are opposed to Brexit because it is a spasm of English nationalism have another option as an escape route from Brexit, independence from England.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    CD13 said:

    Mr B2

    "the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference."

    There's something far worse coming. It's the clash between voters' given preference and the MP's preference, despite the MP's lying promises. They promised to honour the referendum result. You might remember that - it was all over the newspapers not long ago.

    By comparison the LDs' promise about tuition fees was less brazen. At least they had the excuse of the coalition where they were only the junior partner. And this time, they were honestly anti-democratic from the beginning.

    The EU and our future in it is now irrelevant by comparison. MPs are forever tarnished by this.

    Expenses … a mere bagatelle. The world looks on and grimaces.

    Stephen Lloyd takes the LD whip again and stands for Leader?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    I wonder how many Tory MPs have just had a sleepless night?

    Those days of December when they celebrated having seen off Boris must seem a long, long time ago. And for what? Power. Employment. Party. All heading down the pan.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    The previous day they flew to Edinburgh. Someone filed the previous day's flight plan by mistake. Mind you, if they'd been RyanAir they'd have simply said "Welcome to Dusseldorf (Turnhouse)!
    They could have laid on a transfer bus and charged passengers £50 quid each for the trip to Düsseldorf. When I went to Oslo with RyanAir the bus took hours to get into the city and appeared to be serving as a local bus service stopping at towns en route as well.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    I'm surprised by the additional hurdles leavers have placed in the way of their project. Makes you wonder if they ever really wanted to succeed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
    Come on @ydoethur, call a spade a spade. Or don't you have the heart to make trumps this morning? Did you waste all your diamond wit on Egypt? Not like you to miss a punning club.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.
    I'm not sure the coffee the same for DUP and ERG. In extremis, the ERG could accept the Irish backstop as something to work around. The DUP never. Which means May's Deal would get most but not all Conservative MPs, no DUP and a handful of Labour MPs. The numbers aren't there without Labour being substantially on board. To do that May has to cut the ERG loose and it might not work even so.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    He made a desert and he called it peace

    (I know that’s about France but it’s still my favourite bit of political knockabout, along with Distaeli’s “range of exhausted volcanos”)
    Mons Graupius was in France? Is that why we've never been able to find the bloody place? All these years of looking in Scotland...
    To think I’ve been blaming Caesar all these years!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr B2,

    "Which is why there will probably be a referendum at the end, to confirm the voters' preference."

    The result of that referendum is irrelevant. It's the simple five-letter word that will endure. That is TRUST.

    They cannot be trusted to keep their word, and once that is gone, we may as well have dictatorship. Manifestos are just words, solemn promises are only hot air. They knowingly lie and they make no apology for it. We can carry on voting but if you don't know who they represent, they may as well be cardboard cut-outs.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

    you had better check the Numbers
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.

    From here surely the DUP would want a softer, UK-wide Brexit that essentially takes the possibility of a separate status for Northern Ireland off the table - or no Brexit at all.

    That said, I am now totally lost. There is no logic to any of this. All I do know is that I cannot think of another PM who has been so humiliated and emasculated, and remained in office.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    BA said in a statement that the pilot was “following orders from Germany”

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/25/british-airways-flight-dusseldorf-lands-edinburgh--mistake
    Ah, the Nuremberg defence. Always goes well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
    Come on @ydoethur, call a spade a spade. Or don't you have the heart to make trumps this morning? Did you waste all your diamond wit on Egypt? Not like you to miss a punning club.
    I aced it with Egypt. I can't hope to trump that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.

    From here surely the DUP would want a softer, UK-wide Brexit that essentially takes the possibility of a separate status for Northern Ireland off the table - or no Brexit at all.

    That said, I am now totally lost. There is no logic to any of this. All I do know is that I cannot think of another PM who has been so humiliated and emasculated, and remained in office.

    Yeah, it's a dangerous precedent for sure.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: plans to level financial playing field are proposed (they will shortly be shot down).

    Rampant hypocrisy award goes to McLaren, who objected to the last cost cap plan, back when they had loads of money and won stuff:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47691443

    McLaren chief executive officer Zak Brown said: "We need a level playing field, not just for McLaren but for the entire grid. That means fair revenue distribution. I don't think that means equal."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    BA said in a statement that the pilot was “following orders from Germany”

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/25/british-airways-flight-dusseldorf-lands-edinburgh--mistake
    Ah, the Nuremberg defence. Always goes well.
    They are throwing him under the bus though.

    As it were.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    edited March 2019
    Mr Me,

    "an escape route from Brexit, independence from England."

    Achieved by an independence referendum? Only if the UK MPs approve.

    How sweet and trusting these Scots are.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Rampant hypocrisy award goes to McLaren

    Plus ca change...

    Have a good morning.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    I expect this will not be a good time for Dominic Grieve to seek a vote of confidence from his association.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
    Come on @ydoethur, call a spade a spade. Or don't you have the heart to make trumps this morning? Did you waste all your diamond wit on Egypt? Not like you to miss a punning club.
    I aced it with Egypt. I can't hope to trump that.
    You joker. Unless you’re not playing with a full deck, I suggest you shuffle something up like a racing demon before I snap.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

    you had better check the Numbers
    Pass it over to the Judges? Or wouldn't that be ruth-less enough?
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    Scott_P said:
    This could be Mays chance to redeem herself with the public- to take a stance against the parliament trying to block brexit and ignore the manifesto the government was elected on and go to the country in a GE to get brexit delivered and PS - no death tax
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
    Come on @ydoethur, call a spade a spade. Or don't you have the heart to make trumps this morning? Did you waste all your diamond wit on Egypt? Not like you to miss a punning club.
    I aced it with Egypt. I can't hope to trump that.
    You've created a void in your pun bank with no bridge back?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sean_F said:

    I expect this will not be a good time for Dominic Grieve to seek a vote of confidence from his association.

    Part of the farce here is that he and Letwin still have the Tory whip (not that that makes any difference to their behavior of course). Minority governments, eh? What a hoot.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    CD13 said:

    Mr B2,

    "Which is why there will probably be a referendum at the end, to confirm the voters' preference."

    The result of that referendum is irrelevant. It's the simple five-letter word that will endure. That is TRUST.

    They cannot be trusted to keep their word, and once that is gone, we may as well have dictatorship. Manifestos are just words, solemn promises are only hot air. They knowingly lie and they make no apology for it. We can carry on voting but if you don't know who they represent, they may as well be cardboard cut-outs.

    The only upside from this betrayal is we know there is circa 50% of the nations voters who will be fired up to wreak revenge at the next GE... this has to be the end of one of the main parties, why would any leave voter ever back one of them again?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Given that we have experts on here can anyone explain how a plane destined for Germany managed to end up in Edinburgh? Would they not have had to lodge the wrong flight plan as well, otherwise they would presumably have been notified that they were off course at an early stage? How on earth could that not be noticed? How did they manage to get a landing slot at Edinburgh? It just seems really, really strange.

    They did lodge the wrong flight plan, then followed it. The airlines have template docs for the flights they make regularly in the cockpit, and it appears as simple as having pulled out the wrong set of papers.
    Still amazed they got a landing slot without Edinburgh asking what the hell was going on.
    If the festival was on and Fleabag had a show they'd have had to settle for Prestwick
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Looks like parliament are going to reverse Brexit.

    Phew!

    Did you ever seriously doubt it? Just look at the thicket of additional hurdles that have been erected over the last 3 years.
    You say thicket, I say reality.

    I mean BMW didn’t force Merkel to give us a good deal nor did we hold all the cards.
    Indeed, there are knaves on all sides.
    Come on @ydoethur, call a spade a spade. Or don't you have the heart to make trumps this morning? Did you waste all your diamond wit on Egypt? Not like you to miss a punning club.
    I aced it with Egypt. I can't hope to trump that.
    You've created a void in your pun bank with no bridge back?
    It's a rummy do.....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

    you had better check the Numbers
    Pass it over to the Judges? Or wouldn't that be ruth-less enough?
    It would be a Job and a half.,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.

    From here surely the DUP would want a softer, UK-wide Brexit that essentially takes the possibility of a separate status for Northern Ireland off the table - or no Brexit at all.

    That said, I am now totally lost. There is no logic to any of this. All I do know is that I cannot think of another PM who has been so humiliated and emasculated, and remained in office.

    There isn’t - and that is the direct consequence of May presenting a hung Parliament with a fait accompli, with barely the time to rubber stamp it, let alone make another choice.

    I’ve said before that the only way out of this I can see is Norway, as it is the option which takes away the least from those who voted against Brexit, while still complying with the terms of the referendum vote.
    And it is a stable solution, which retains the potential for future movement in either direction, without requiring it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

    That would be a Revalation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    So what is the next stage in this farce? Presumably the Commons will vote for a second referendum or, at the least, a confirmatory referendum seeking approval of any deal that is done with an alternative of remain before departure? What will May do then?

    Have the ERG worked out they've lost yet or is that still much for them to grasp? Idiots doesn't come close.

    The two scenarios that seem to be rising in probability are May's deal, on the basis that the ERG and DUP finally smell the coffee, or a GE, on the basis that the clash between Parliament's preference and Government preference can't otherwise be resolved.

    Problem with May's deal is that just as she wins over her extremists she is losing Labour and Tory remainer support. They now have alternatives to root for.

    From here surely the DUP would want a softer, UK-wide Brexit that essentially takes the possibility of a separate status for Northern Ireland off the table - or no Brexit at all.

    That said, I am now totally lost. There is no logic to any of this. All I do know is that I cannot think of another PM who has been so humiliated and emasculated, and remained in office.

    There isn’t - and that is the direct consequence of May presenting a hung Parliament with a fait accompli, with barely the time to rubber stamp it, let alone make another choice.

    I’ve said before that the only way out of this I can see is Norway, as it is the option which takes away the least from those who voted against Brexit, while still complying with the terms of the referendum vote.
    And it is a stable solution, which retains the potential for future movement in either direction, without requiring it.
    I'll ask again - what is the mechanism for leaving Norway?
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    isam said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr B2,

    "Which is why there will probably be a referendum at the end, to confirm the voters' preference."

    The result of that referendum is irrelevant. It's the simple five-letter word that will endure. That is TRUST.

    They cannot be trusted to keep their word, and once that is gone, we may as well have dictatorship. Manifestos are just words, solemn promises are only hot air. They knowingly lie and they make no apology for it. We can carry on voting but if you don't know who they represent, they may as well be cardboard cut-outs.

    The only upside from this betrayal is we know there is circa 50% of the nations voters who will be fired up to wreak revenge at the next GE... this has to be the end of one of the main parties, why would any leave voter ever back one of them again?
    My son works for network rail and everyone he works with say they will never vote again if brexit is betrayed . The contempt for politicians has fallen to rock bottom
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: incidentally, after the annoyingly early start for Australia, Bahrain (next up) jumps in the opposite direction and starts qualifying at 3pm and the race itself at 4.10pm. The qualifying ramble might be up a little earlier than usual (before rather than after third practice) but should still be up on Saturday.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    First; wow what a morning after such a night. I cannot understand why Mrs May does not resign.

    Everyone hates Boris, our new Moses.
    There's a general feeling he isn't being Pharoah about Brexit.
    He is in de-Nile
    And he delta very bad hand to May, and indeed the rest of us.
    Boris is like a bul-rush in a china shop
    If he thinks he can just Toot-and-come-in to 10 Downing Street he should think again.
    And such an event would lead to an Exodus of half the Tory party..

    That would be a Revalation.
    They'd no longer have the Numbers....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    I expect this will not be a good time for Dominic Grieve to seek a vote of confidence from his association.

    Part of the farce here is that he and Letwin still have the Tory whip (not that that makes any difference to their behavior of course). Minority governments, eh? What a hoot.
    And yet Letwin has voted against the government a tiny fraction of the times that the ERG have. And is still prepared to vote for May’s deal as his first preference.

This discussion has been closed.