Hunt says chances of a no deal brexit are much higher than a million to one then in the next breath says Parliament will take it off the table, he can't have it both ways.
Well we will see how this Labour pivot will play in the polls. Although the acid test will be the election if we get it - which I doubt.
And I don't see the Labour deal as unicorn. It would be the WA plus the PD amended for closer alignment.
I think the pivot is just an explicit articulation of their previous studied ambiguity.
It really is saying both things to both sides.
As for the deal the PD means nothing.
Oh and despite all Nick’s fireside chats with him, Corbyn is a fervent leaver, has been for the past few decades, and as we know he sticks to his principles.
We are going to be so prepared for no deal that we won’t have to worry about any economic damage.
Yet the EU (which is already better prepared than us) will apparently be so panicked by the risk of impending no deal that they will reverse their previous position and give Boris the agreement he wants.
I don’t think this stacks up. There isn’t a no deal exit what is simultaneously harmless for us and a nightmare for the EU.
Boris says he will do a FTA with the EU and a new partnership based on mutual defence etc but not through Brussels
We already have a partnership of "mutual defence" - it's called NATO and the UK has been a members since its inception or had you and the other Boris fans forgotten that little "fact" as well ?
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal. I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
The policy is to hold a referendum with remain as an option in all circumstances basically.
Or at least that is my understanding from reading PB.
Edit: and most Labour MPs would campaign for remain.
1. you have to trust corbyn to actually have a referendum after he wins a commons majority and negotiates a deal he is happy with, I don’t think he would claiming he had a mandate for his policy.
2. I don’t think he will throw his weight behind any remain campaign and will go on holiday whilst it is going on.
He is responsible for this mess by his piss poor performance in the referendum to bring labour voters on side.
1. He'd have won his mandate on a manifesto that included the referendum, even if Corbyn were to magically turn around and pretend it didn't happen do you think the Labour MPs would go along with that? 85% of Labour MPs already voted for another referendum why would they suddenly not want one when they won a majority on that specific policy?
2. Well he did more events than any other Labour MP last time and this caused the vote to leave, so presumably you wouldn't want him doing much?
3. Although actually unnumbered. Facts aren't really one your side here, Labour voters voted remain in a very similar proportion to SNP and Lib Dem voters. Is it by any chance that you are unhappy you side lost and looking for people to blame?
As I said before, someone who blames Labour for Brexit and think Corbyn is a secret no dealer and doesn't believe Labour will do what they say in the manifesto is a non existent person as far as Labour strategists are concerned.
If you want another referendum more than the other stuff you mention is a problem then Labour has made an offer to you, if you don't believe whatever Labour will offer then you don't matter because Labour can't make any offer to you.
Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
Which both surprises and frustrates me.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal. I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
The policy is to hold a referendum with remain as an option in all circumstances basically.
Or at least that is my understanding from reading PB.
Edit: and most Labour MPs would campaign for remain.
I know you may not like it but if that is the case, I am all for it. Well done John, Diane, Emily...…………………….
I signed the revoke petition and voted remain originally, I have cooled* a little on the idea but I have always thought (and still do) remaining was a better option
*Would also be reasonably happy with a sofish Brexit.
We are going to be so prepared for no deal that we won’t have to worry about any economic damage.
Yet the EU (which is already better prepared than us) will apparently be so panicked by the risk of impending no deal that they will reverse their previous position and give Boris the agreement he wants.
I don’t think this stacks up. There isn’t a no deal exit what is simultaneously harmless for us and a nightmare for the EU.
Hunt says US UK alliance most important relationship in history but UK Ambassador to DC stays, Boris condemns leaker but refuses to say Darroch will stay beyond Christmas. He and he alone will decide
Hunt says US UK alliance most important relationship in history but UK Ambassador to DC stays, Boris condemns leaker but refuses to say Darroch will stay beyond Christmas. He and he alone will decide
No - Bozo wants to sack him this summer, not le him serve out his term.
Hunt says US UK alliance most important relationship in history but UK Ambassador to DC stays, Boris condemns leaker but refuses to say Darroch will stay beyond Christmas. He and he alone will decide
No - Bozo wants to sack him this summer, not le him serve out his term.
Quite right too, the sooner he gets the boot the better and we can start repairing the damage
Hunt says US UK alliance most important relationship in history but UK Ambassador to DC stays, Boris condemns leaker but refuses to say Darroch will stay beyond Christmas. He and he alone will decide
No - Bozo wants to sack him this summer, not le him serve out his term.
He did not actually say that - it was typical Boris - fudge
Hunt says US UK alliance most important relationship in history but UK Ambassador to DC stays, Boris condemns leaker but refuses to say Darroch will stay beyond Christmas. He and he alone will decide
No - Bozo wants to sack him this summer, not le him serve out his term.
Quite right too, the sooner he gets the boot the better and we can start repairing the damage
He didn't cause the damage. That was some mate of your man Bozo.
Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism
But not 'how'
Unless Boris has some extremely cunning plan that no one else has thought of, his premiership will be destroyed by Brexit within months.
He can wiffle and piffle until the cows return to their vestibules of hay but he can't change the maths of the HoC.
He can if he wins a majority
He better brush up on his debating skills if thst is to happen.
Nothing wrong with his debating skills other than diehard Remainers don't like what he says
He did OK in London Mayor debates in 2008 and 2012 and Red Ken was/is a more formidible debater than Jezza.
Why is he so incredibly shite now, then?
Not watching (will catch up later) but I suspect he's not much different in debating style from 08/12 it's just the message is different now and you hate it.
Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism
But not 'how'
Unless Boris has some extremely cunning plan that no one else has thought of, his premiership will be destroyed by Brexit within months.
He can wiffle and piffle until the cows return to their vestibules of hay but he can't change the maths of the HoC.
He can if he wins a majority
He better brush up on his debating skills if thst is to happen.
Nothing wrong with his debating skills other than diehard Remainers don't like what he says
He did OK in London Mayor debates in 2008 and 2012 and Red Ken was/is a more formidible debater than Jezza.
Why is he so incredibly shite now, then?
Not watching (will catch up later) but I suspect he's not much different in debating style from 08/12 it's just the message is different now and you hate it.
He’s really dire. Was there a televised debate with Livingstone?
What did Boris mean about "winning the forthcoming election": it implies a GE in the near future. Has he just gaffed? He is as leaky as sieve!
Well there is officially a "forecoming election" in 2022.
I am well aware 2022 is the last date for a GE. I would not use the word forthcoming to describe an election 3 years away. I think he showed how inept he is by blurting out a GE this year! You keep on saying he should have one so dont be surprised if he is going to have one, which he will probably do worse than May i hasten to add!
Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism
But not 'how'
Unless Boris has some extremely cunning plan that no one else has thought of, his premiership will be destroyed by Brexit within months.
He can wiffle and piffle until the cows return to their vestibules of hay but he can't change the maths of the HoC.
He can if he wins a majority
He better brush up on his debating skills if thst is to happen.
Nothing wrong with his debating skills other than diehard Remainers don't like what he says
He did OK in London Mayor debates in 2008 and 2012 and Red Ken was/is a more formidible debater than Jezza.
Why is he so incredibly shite now, then?
Not watching (will catch up later) but I suspect he's not much different in debating style from 08/12 it's just the message is different now and you hate it.
He’s really dire. Was there a televised debate with Livingstone?
Yes there were debates for 2008 and 2012 Mayoralty elections (the London Mayor debates were really what paved the way for general election debates I think)
Well Johnson no answer on the ambassador, no answer on heathrow third runway, an appalling answer of gay rights and abortion in NI and several other things if he is the answer....
Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism
But not 'how'
Unless Boris has some extremely cunning plan that no one else has thought of, his premiership will be destroyed by Brexit within months.
He can wiffle and piffle until the cows return to their vestibules of hay but he can't change the maths of the HoC.
He can if he wins a majority
He better brush up on his debating skills if thst is to happen.
Nothing wrong with his debating skills other than diehard Remainers don't like what he says
He did OK in London Mayor debates in 2008 and 2012 and Red Ken was/is a more formidible debater than Jezza.
Why is he so incredibly shite now, then?
Not watching (will catch up later) but I suspect he's not much different in debating style from 08/12 it's just the message is different now and you hate it.
He’s really dire. Was there a televised debate with Livingstone?
I’m not watching and I think that Johnson’s best years are behind him but I suspect that he’s the sort of person who can adjust his performance to be 10% better than the opposition in almost any circumstance. He performs to the opposition not to absolute potential. Lots of people are like that.
Plus, people here have an opinion and adjust any facts to fit that opinion. You think Johnson’s a dick (see what I did there) - he could be performing as if he were the lovechild of Churchill, Aristotle and Disraeli and you’d still think him a dick.
Well Johnson no answer on the ambassador, no answer on heathrow third runway, an appalling answer of gay rights and abortion in NI and several other things if he is the answer....
You can see why the diehard Tories like Boris, but the rest of us have just seen his weaknesses on display and can only be left fearing what lies ahead.
You can see why the diehard Tories like Boris, but the rest of us have just seen his weaknesses on display and can only be left fearing what lies ahead.
I’m not even sure why “diehard Tories” would like Boris since he basically failed to answer any question. Who but an idiot would trust him?
You can see why the diehard Tories like Boris, but the rest of us have just seen his weaknesses on display and can only be left fearing what lies ahead.
I’m not even sure why “diehard Tories” would like Boris since he basically failed to answer any question. Who but an idiot would trust him?
Comments
It really is saying both things to both sides.
As for the deal the PD means nothing.
Oh and despite all Nick’s fireside chats with him, Corbyn is a fervent leaver, has been for the past few decades, and as we know he sticks to his principles.
Only surprise is how strongly Hunt is challenging Boris given that he must know he has lost however well he does tonight.
He can wiffle and piffle until the cows return to their vestibules of hay but he can't change the maths of the HoC.
Yet the EU (which is already better prepared than us) will apparently be so panicked by the risk of impending no deal that they will reverse their previous position and give Boris the agreement he wants.
I don’t think this stacks up. There isn’t a no deal exit what is simultaneously harmless for us and a nightmare for the EU.
Hat tip to Big G.
I suspect it will. Because the public go on big picture not detail.
Good luck idiots. You'll find the snake oil is just absolutely fine.
She will end up laughing her head off on the backbenches.
2. Well he did more events than any other Labour MP last time and this caused the vote to leave, so presumably you wouldn't want him doing much?
3. Although actually unnumbered. Facts aren't really one your side here, Labour voters voted remain in a very similar proportion to SNP and Lib Dem voters. Is it by any chance that you are unhappy you side lost and looking for people to blame?
As I said before, someone who blames Labour for Brexit and think Corbyn is a secret no dealer and doesn't believe Labour will do what they say in the manifesto is a non existent person as far as Labour strategists are concerned.
If you want another referendum more than the other stuff you mention is a problem then Labour has made an offer to you, if you don't believe whatever Labour will offer then you don't matter because Labour can't make any offer to you.
*Would also be reasonably happy with a sofish Brexit.
Oh, and New Thread, btw.
Was there a televised debate with Livingstone?
They may be on YouTube if you do some digging.
Plus, people here have an opinion and adjust any facts to fit that opinion. You think Johnson’s a dick (see what I did there) - he could be performing as if he were the lovechild of Churchill, Aristotle and Disraeli and you’d still think him a dick.
You can see why the diehard Tories like Boris, but the rest of us have just seen his weaknesses on display and can only be left fearing what lies ahead.
General public always go on big picture / general impression.