Well said that man. It amazes me how the SNP get such an easy ride in the British media.
Because most people in England just shrug their shoulders and think it is up to the people in Scotland.
Bolton and others should know better - they're SF equivalents and should be treated as such.
Pardon?
SF are the political arm of a paramilitary organisation with a very long and bloody history of killing innocent people.
The SNP are a mainstream left of centre political movement which believes in an independent Scotland. They have absolutely no association with terrorism (or freedom fighters if you happen to prefer that term) and have never - at least in modern times - advocated or acted as apologists for violence as a means to achieve their ends.
The comparison would be offensive to most reasonable people.
They're both want the destruction of the UK - that's equivalence enough for me. If I had my way the SNP top brass would all be in jail for Sedition
The SNP are nothing like Sinn Fein. The latter have a long record of murder.
it is entirely legitimate for people to campaign peacefully for an independent Scotland, and if they can persuade most Scots to agree, it is in our interests to allow them to go their own way, rather than trying to keep them by force in the Union.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
Suppose the buffoon isn't bluffing and he does pull that call a General Election after leaving stunt. What's to stop the EU agreeing to a new govt rejoining on the old terms instantaneously? We'd have been out of the EU for a couple of weeks so the referendum would be honoured.
Worth it for the look on Johnson and Cummings faces when announced about a week into the campaign.
Treaty law I'm afraid. For the same reason we should never consider unilaterally breaking treaties, the EU would be bound by its own laws to go through the accession process again.
We're considering unilaterally and deliberately breaking our treaty commitments under the GATT 1947 and 1994 treaties.
And as I have argued all along we should not do that. If a country breaks its treaty commitments then it is setting a very dangerous precedent.
The Irony is of course that if the EU did break its own treaties then it is inevitable it would end up being taken to court for it.
Am I right in thinking that the EU has a treaty obligation to secure a withdrawal deal with a leaving member? If so, presumably the EU will be taken to court in the event of no deal. Gina Miller, anyone? She likes due process.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
And all credit, when Project Fear is shown to be overblown.
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
And all credit, when Project Fear is shown to be overblown.
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
And all credit, when Project Fear is shown to be overblown.
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
Ok start by explaining how WTO tariffs are going to work across uk imports and exports and which industries need to do what to prepare, the after that explain where the required customs agents are going to come from.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
The only age group that he has a positive rating with is the over 65's, and even there not by much.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
And all credit, when Project Fear is shown to be overblown.
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
When you say when. You mean if.q
No, when. The great irony is that it will be Gove's planning that will have got Boris out a hole.....
I am surprised, actually, at how poor Johnson’s polling is and how weak his “bounce”. And look at how his NHS funding announcement collapses.
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
I am surprised, actually, at how poor Johnson’s polling is and how weak his “bounce”. And look at how his NHS funding announcement collapses.
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
I wonder if Boris has managed to peak too early. I can imagine a full on attack in the media starting after the August Bank Holiday ready for everyone to get back in September and sort something out.
On SF and SNP, it certainly is true that SF are now the mainstream Irish Nationalist party, whatever their heritage.
Indeed NI is an interesting example of how culture wars develop. I am old enough to remember when the SDLP and Official Unionists were the main parties there. Now (having dropped their support for paramilitary action, overt or covert) it is SF and DUP. I suppose that polarisation matters less when only words rather than bullets are exchanged, but harder and harder to see a way out of division.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
Why on earth are we not talking to the French about this rather than relying on satellite photos? This is ridiculous.
They speak French for gods sake when they speak English and give us what we want, which we don’t actually know what we want, we will talk to them. Until then we will just shout at the to help them understand.
On SF and SNP, it certainly is true that SF are now the mainstream Irish Nationalist party, whatever their heritage.
Indeed NI is an interesting example of how culture wars develop. I am old enough to remember when the SDLP and Official Unionists were the main parties there. Now (having dropped their support for paramilitary action, overt or covert) it is SF and DUP. I suppose that polarisation matters less when only words rather than bullets are exchanged, but harder and harder to see a way out of division.
A more optimistic view is that you need the sectarian divide to polarise in order to create the space for a non-sectarian politics to emerge in the centre. There's some evidence that Brexit is forcing this to happen.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
I don't think there'll be any shift on the Remain side, but I expect that the proportion of Leavers supporting him will rise considerably. If he gets to 80% of Leavers, then he'll be level-pegging.
In the short term you may be correct - longer term Boris is Mr Brexit and all problems will land on his (and the Tory party's) plate.
And all credit, when Project Fear is shown to be overblown.
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
Just out of interest how do you see the economy fairing if Brexit is executed? I would also be interested on the basis of your predictions.
Brexit will fundamentally adjust the way the economy works be in no doubt about that. Do you think companies and individuals will behave exactly the same if the margins of profitability are suddenly cut for say companies owned by overseas shareholders? If business is suddenly more expensive and less profitable for Japanese or American companies as an example do you think they will stay in the UK? As I say Brexiteers have a new economic theory that flies in the face of everything we have seen in the past. You and people who advocate Brexit seem to think we can to use Margret Thatcher's phrase "buck the market"?
They speak French for gods sake when they speak English and give us what we want, which we don’t actually know what we want, we will talk to them. Until then we will just shout at the to help them understand.
I would advise waving your hands, but team BoZo are already hand-waiving the entire agenda...
It's interesting how Twitter, in less than 10 years, has seemingly demolished about 1,000 years of good manners in public discourse. What an achievement. But it's the people who post rude comments on Twitter who are mostly to blame, not the platform, since you can't reasonably blame a medium for the content individuals choose to post on it.
I blame emojis and reaction gifs. We reply in memes not arguments. It's one of the best things about PB. The quality of debate here - certainly on the topic of UK politics, possibly also on the topic of pinapple and pizza - surpasses anywhere else on the web.
It's certainly true that he is never likely to be more popular than he is today, as he starts to disappoint more and more of his apostles.
Just imagine the protection bill for Boris when he leaves Downing Street for the last time! He is going to need a small army to start with IMO. But then again nothing Boris does has regard for the economy or the taxpayer...
Johnson's poor personal ratings won't matter if he can raise the Tories to around 40% in the polls. They will matter if the Tories are stuck on about 30%.
FPT bit late to this but wanted to say to David Herdson that he has my sympathy, as it must be a wrench to him to leave the party he belonged to for so long.
I am sorry he rejects the Lib Dems - although am ever hopeful he might come round - but I suggest that actually what needs to happen is for both the Tories and Labour parties to split into right/left moderates and right/left extremists. Government would then be possible via coalitions of the moderate versions and the Lib Dems. And sanity might return.
Johnson's poor personal ratings won't matter if he can raise the Tories to around 40% in the polls. They will matter if the Tories are stuck on about 30%.
Johnson's poor ratings are the reason he will never raise the Tories to 40% in the polls.
I am surprised, actually, at how poor Johnson’s polling is and how weak his “bounce”. And look at how his NHS funding announcement collapses.
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
I am not surprised by the poor polling Boris is experiencing. I am aware of whole families who used to vote Tory who will not vote for that idiot! Brexiteer Tories seem to think voters who usually support Labour and were Leavers will support him but I think this fundamentally misjudges why these people voted for Leave and will never vote Tory. It just goes to show how out of touch the nutters in office are that they even think Labour voters in historically Labour seats will support a party led by a man who thinks the rich should have more money!
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
2% of former Remainers give Johnson a very favourable rating, so not much upside as a unity leader. Not only is there less support than opposition to Johnson, the support he does have is softer than the opposition
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
The only age group that he has a positive rating with is the over 65's, and even there not by much.
Am struck by 2 things. Apologies if they have been covered, but cba reading 300+ posts. 1) The 50-64 age group is -10. That is dire. We know the age of voting Tory rose to 48 at last election, signs it may rise again. He is negative with ALL working age groups. 2) The dislike is strong with this one. The like is weak. The very unfavourables are way higher than the somewhats. Equally, the very favourables are much lower than the somewhats.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
But that's all that politics is now. A choice between which pile of shit stinks the least.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
David Cameron's net approval ratings amongst Tory voters used to be consistently in the 90s for most of his Premiership.
Positively North Korean.
And look how he bloody turned out in the end.
I think a fair chunk of the population would grab at the chance of dumping this motley crew in favour of Cameron and Osborne facing off once more against Miliband Minor and Ed Balls.
David Cameron's net approval ratings amongst Tory voters used to be consistently in the 90s for most of his Premiership.
Positively North Korean.
And look how he bloody turned out in the end.
I think a fair chunk of the population would grab at the chance of dumping this motley crew in favour of Cameron and Osborne facing off once more against Miliband Minor and Ed Balls.
That would be a great question for an opinion poll.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
But that's all that politics is now. A choice between which pile of shit stinks the least.
I live in a Con-Lab swing seat that has been won by the winning party at every general election for forty years save 1992.
If I live here when the next election is called and Johnson and Corbyn are still leading their respective parties I will not vote for either of them.
So clearly the future WTO tariffs regime is either of no importance or that you are all like me completely unsure what it means. I have tried since this afternoon to raise the issue but it seems to have got lost in bull cheese.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Most people nowadays want and expect their 2 weeks in the Sun. If that becomes unaffordable the people responsible will never be forgiven.
Looks like the SNP are getting the same free ride on PB as they do on the MSM. I'd expect better - but whatever.
It'll obviously take more time for the SNP to win independence, but the direction of travel is both obvious and inevitable.
No arrangement like the UK in which 40% or more of the people in two of the constituent elements - Scotland and Northern Ireland, of course - are desperate to sod off is sustainable. We shouldn't even be trying to perpetuate the arrangement.
England and Wales will probably be joined at the hip for the rest of our lifetimes, but the wider Union is finished. It's just a matter of time.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
You are wasting your time. I've been there and done that.
It appears that the gain I have made on swiss shares I hold quoted in swiss francs is not real nor the increase in the cost of my holiday to Iceland. These are figments of my imagination.
If you're lucky enough to afford foreign shares or foreign holidays then good for you, however ordinary income and expenditure is in Sterling. Whether something is imported or not is immaterial, the price to the end consumer is in Sterling and CPI inflation captures the Sterling price changes.
David Cameron's net approval ratings amongst Tory voters used to be consistently in the 90s for most of his Premiership.
Positively North Korean.
And look how he bloody turned out in the end.
I think a fair chunk of the population would grab at the chance of dumping this motley crew in favour of Cameron and Osborne facing off once more against Miliband Minor and Ed Balls.
That would be a great question for an opinion poll.
"If you could turn back time to the 2015 GE, how would you vote?"
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
But ASDA bought it in Euros, and it takes more of your Sterling to pay for it than it did previously.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
But that's all that politics is now. A choice between which pile of shit stinks the least.
I live in a Con-Lab swing seat that has been won by the winning party at every general election for forty years save 1992.
If I live here when the next election is called and Johnson and Corbyn are still leading their respective parties I will not vote for either of them.
Do you plan to vote for anyone, or do you consider the entire exercise pointless? I'm currently in the latter camp.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Most people nowadays want and expect their 2 weeks in the Sun. If that becomes unaffordable the people responsible will never be forgiven.
Yes they may want their 2 weeks* in the sun but that is an exception not the rule and people save up for that. Its not their day to day expenditure. Tax changes, price changes, personal circumstances changes etc all have a far more dramatic impact on real life than a currency change during your holiday rather than the rest of the year.
* I know a lot of people happy with a weekend in the sun, or a week in the sun, but either way you've got 50+ weeks in the UK earning and spending in sterling.
Having listened to McDonnell and Chris Leslie today (Whatever their sub 1% polling Change UK's votes are important in VONC goings on !) I think "No deal" inches closer.
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
But ASDA bought it in Euros, and it takes more of your Sterling to pay for it than it did previously.
Which is measured by inflation. Hence why I said inflation matters all along.
You are familiar with the concept of inflation aren't you?
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
But that's all that politics is now. A choice between which pile of shit stinks the least.
I live in a Con-Lab swing seat that has been won by the winning party at every general election for forty years save 1992.
If I live here when the next election is called and Johnson and Corbyn are still leading their respective parties I will not vote for either of them.
Do you plan to vote for anyone, or do you consider the entire exercise pointless? I'm currently in the latter camp.
I'll vote. I just don't know who I'll be voting for at this moment.
I always feel those people who fail to vote rather forfeit the right to grouse afterwards. 'Well, if you don't like them, do something actually constructive and vote against them.'
If everybody who failed to vote in 2001 had voted for a party other than Labour for example, that party would probably have won.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Most people nowadays want and expect their 2 weeks in the Sun. If that becomes unaffordable the people responsible will never be forgiven.
Yes they may want their 2 weeks* in the sun but that is an exception not the rule and people save up for that. Its not their day to day expenditure. Tax changes, price changes, personal circumstances changes etc all have a far more dramatic impact on real life than a currency change during your holiday rather than the rest of the year.
* I know a lot of people happy with a weekend in the sun, or a week in the sun, but either way you've got 50+ weeks in the UK earning and spending in sterling.
Brexit: a world where the public is expected to prefer Skegness to Sardinia, Amstrad to Apple, Austin Allegros to Audis.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
The only age group that he has a positive rating with is the over 65's, and even there not by much.
Am struck by 2 things. Apologies if they have been covered, but cba reading 300+ posts. 1) The 50-64 age group is -10. That is dire. We know the age of voting Tory rose to 48 at last election, signs it may rise again. He is negative with ALL working age groups. 2) The dislike is strong with this one. The like is weak. The very unfavourables are way higher than the somewhats. Equally, the very favourables are much lower than the somewhats.
Both very astute observations. Boris is not going to gain swing voters.
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
But ASDA bought it in Euros, and it takes more of your Sterling to pay for it than it did previously.
Which is captured in the CPI as you carefully deleted from his post
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Most people nowadays want and expect their 2 weeks in the Sun. If that becomes unaffordable the people responsible will never be forgiven.
Yes they may want their 2 weeks* in the sun but that is an exception not the rule and people save up for that. Its not their day to day expenditure. Tax changes, price changes, personal circumstances changes etc all have a far more dramatic impact on real life than a currency change during your holiday rather than the rest of the year.
* I know a lot of people happy with a weekend in the sun, or a week in the sun, but either way you've got 50+ weeks in the UK earning and spending in sterling.
Brexit: a world where the public is expected to prefer Skegness to Sardinia, Amstrad to Apple, Austin Allegros to Audis.
All for the sake of a so called democratic principle that was eventually going to be resolved by a FTA or a technology solution, or could have been avoided altogether by respecting the wishes of the NI voters
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Foreign holidays a luxury and an exception? You are just showing how ridiculously out of touch you are...
There were 46.6 million holiday visits abroad by UK residents in 2017 according to the ONS.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
Most people nowadays want and expect their 2 weeks in the Sun. If that becomes unaffordable the people responsible will never be forgiven.
Yes they may want their 2 weeks* in the sun but that is an exception not the rule and people save up for that. Its not their day to day expenditure. Tax changes, price changes, personal circumstances changes etc all have a far more dramatic impact on real life than a currency change during your holiday rather than the rest of the year.
* I know a lot of people happy with a weekend in the sun, or a week in the sun, but either way you've got 50+ weeks in the UK earning and spending in sterling.
Brexit: a world where the public is expected to prefer Skegness to Sardinia, Amstrad to Apple, Austin Allegros to Audis.
Amstrad had a lot of potential at one time actually. I had an Amstrad computer and for its day it was very advanced.
They never capitalised on it, but then Apple as near as toucher went bust as well at one time.
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
But ASDA bought it in Euros, and it takes more of your Sterling to pay for it than it did previously.
Which is captured in the CPI as you carefully deleted from his post
So this begs the question: why has inflation not increased substantially? Are businesses taking slimmer margins?
Brexit: a world where the public is expected to prefer Skegness to Sardinia, Amstrad to Apple, Austin Allegros to Audis.
Amstrad had a lot of potential at one time actually. I had an Amstrad computer and for its day it was very advanced.
They never capitalised on it, but then Apple as near as toucher went bust as well at one time.
Had the single market had been completed in the 70s there are quite a few 80s era European technology companies that might have achieved the scale to match the Americans instead of falling by the wayside.
Having listened to McDonnell and Chris Leslie today (Whatever their sub 1% polling Change UK's votes are important in VONC goings on !) I think "No deal" inches closer.
What's CL said?
Does he still want a 2nd vote except not in his own Constituency.
I am surprised, actually, at how poor Johnson’s polling is and how weak his “bounce”. And look at how his NHS funding announcement collapses.
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
I am not surprised by the poor polling Boris is experiencing. I am aware of whole families who used to vote Tory who will not vote for that idiot! Brexiteer Tories seem to think voters who usually support Labour and were Leavers will support him but I think this fundamentally misjudges why these people voted for Leave and will never vote Tory. It just goes to show how out of touch the nutters in office are that they even think Labour voters in historically Labour seats will support a party led by a man who thinks the rich should have more money!
I don't think Johnson's polling is at all poor. He's pushed up the Conservatives' share by about 10% or so, and I expect it will rise a bit further.
I would expect his rating to be hitting 80% + among Conservatives and Leavers shortly.
I think he's lecherous and unprincipled, but on this forum, people completely overstate the hatred that the public have for him, because they hate him.
Brexit: a world where the public is expected to prefer Skegness to Sardinia, Amstrad to Apple, Austin Allegros to Audis.
Amstrad had a lot of potential at one time actually. I had an Amstrad computer and for its day it was very advanced.
They never capitalised on it, but then Apple as near as toucher went bust as well at one time.
Had the single market had been completed in the 70s there are quite a few 80s era European technology companies that might have achieved the scale to match the Americans instead of falling by the wayside.
If Microsoft hadn't rescued Apple in 1997, it would surely have gone under. And they did that because of anti-trust laws, which they feared would see Microsoft accused of running a monopoly.
If Apple could nearly go under with the whole US market to play with, and Amiga did, forgive me if I am sceptical about the survival possibilities for European companies in what was then a much smaller potential market of twelve mid-sized states who would not have had the same threat to hold over Microsoft. The dominance of the big player was the problem.
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
This stuff just gets stupider and stupider.
Do you not understand that ASDA has to pay for it in Euros, and that they have to make a profit by selling it on to you?
The reason people are harping on about bollocks like sterling when we both earn our income and spend our expenditure in sterling so it's moot is because there is no real evidence.
Employment is up, wages are up, inflation is low. A trifecta of good news but why let that stand in the way of a good moan?
What on earth is this drivel about earning our income in sterling and spending our expenditure in sterling?
Is the lunatic fringe now assuming we're going to stop trading with the rest of the world altogether on 31 October?
On a day to day basis what trade with the rest of the world do consumers do to spend their wages?
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
This stuff just gets stupider and stupider.
Do you not understand that ASDA has to pay for it in Euros, and that they have to make a profit by selling it on to you?
Italy was Europe's economic superstar from 1950 - 1990 when its currency dropped like a stone. Its economy stopped growing after 2000, when it joined the Euro.
The thing that should most concern Boris Johnson is how few don’t knows there are. He’s a known quantity and he’s cordially loathed by an absolute majority already.
66% of Tories give him a favourable rating and 62% of Leavers
Both figures are low when you consider that these are his home supporters. The Conservative figure especially is low. The 34% of Conservative voters who aren’t convinced will take some holding.
Not whilst the alternative is Corbyn they won't.
Relying on them believing that anthrax is preferable to Ebola is an adventurous strategy.
But that's all that politics is now. A choice between which pile of shit stinks the least.
I live in a Con-Lab swing seat that has been won by the winning party at every general election for forty years save 1992.
If I live here when the next election is called and Johnson and Corbyn are still leading their respective parties I will not vote for either of them.
Do you plan to vote for anyone, or do you consider the entire exercise pointless? I'm currently in the latter camp.
I'll vote. I just don't know who I'll be voting for at this moment.
I always feel those people who fail to vote rather forfeit the right to grouse afterwards. 'Well, if you don't like them, do something actually constructive and vote against them.'
If everybody who failed to vote in 2001 had voted for a party other than Labour for example, that party would probably have won.
Admittedly my own view is somewhat coloured by the safe seat issue. In my local example, Sir Oliver Heald would survive a nuclear war - therefore, why bother dragging oneself to the polling station either to support or to oppose his return for the 74th consecutive election? Objectively, the exercise is a complete waste of time and effort. One would be more constructively occupied going down the gym or watching something mildly interesting on the telly.
Now, if this were a marginal then I might be motivated to back the Tory to keep Labour out (the main reason for anybody to vote Conservative being to keep Labour out, or vice versa.) But even then I'm not as sure as I once was that I would bother. The problem with voting is that politicians, naturally, treat votes as endorsements. I don't really want to endorse any of them.
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
But ASDA bought it in Euros, and it takes more of your Sterling to pay for it than it did previously.
Which is captured in the CPI as you carefully deleted from his post
So this begs the question: why has inflation not increased substantially? Are businesses taking slimmer margins?
Yes, I think that is partly true at least. In the difficult world of retail, profits are being squeeezed to maintain sales volumes.
I am surprised, actually, at how poor Johnson’s polling is and how weak his “bounce”. And look at how his NHS funding announcement collapses.
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
I am not surprised by the poor polling Boris is experiencing. I am aware of whole families who used to vote Tory who will not vote for that idiot! Brexiteer Tories seem to think voters who usually support Labour and were Leavers will support him but I think this fundamentally misjudges why these people voted for Leave and will never vote Tory. It just goes to show how out of touch the nutters in office are that they even think Labour voters in historically Labour seats will support a party led by a man who thinks the rich should have more money!
I don't think Johnson's polling is at all poor. He's pushed up the Conservatives' share by about 10% or so, and I expect it will rise a bit further.
I would expect his rating to be hitting 80% + among Conservatives and Leavers shortly.
I think he's lecherous and unprincipled, but on this forum, people completely overstate the hatred that the public have for him, because they hate him.
Moralizing is beside the point when it comes to assessing politicians unless the public in general have a view about it which affects their likelihood to vote for them. On that score Boris's peccadillos are discounted just as much as May's virtues. The only thing that matters is their ability to deliver what the electorate wants.
I'll vote. I just don't know who I'll be voting for at this moment.
I always feel those people who fail to vote rather forfeit the right to grouse afterwards. 'Well, if you don't like them, do something actually constructive and vote against them.'
If everybody who failed to vote in 2001 had voted for a party other than Labour for example, that party would probably have won.
Admittedly my own view is somewhat coloured by the safe seat issue. In my local example, Sir Oliver Heald would survive a nuclear war - therefore, why bother dragging oneself to the polling station either to support or to oppose his return for the 74th consecutive election? Objectively, the exercise is a complete waste of time and effort. One would be more constructively occupied going down the gym or watching something mildly interesting on the telly.
Now, if this were a marginal then I might be motivated to back the Tory to keep Labour out (the main reason for anybody to vote Conservative being to keep Labour out, or vice versa.) But even then I'm not as sure as I once was that I would bother. The problem with voting is that politicians, naturally, treat votes as endorsements. I don't really want to endorse any of them.
The point is that if nobody votes against him, he will certainly win.
If enough people feel disenchanted and vote for one of his opponents, he might lose.
Comments
it is entirely legitimate for people to campaign peacefully for an independent Scotland, and if they can persuade most Scots to agree, it is in our interests to allow them to go their own way, rather than trying to keep them by force in the Union.
Who takes over the work they did may be as important as anything else..
Remainers risk setting up to make Boris a great PM.....
It also feels like the media, having built him up, and keen to take him down. Also, having Cummings suggest he a potential coup d’etat seems to have been a bridge too far for some, and incensed others.
Still, it’s silly season. Most of the public are on a beach somewhere. September is when shit gets real.
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1159167165825802240
Indeed NI is an interesting example of how culture wars develop. I am old enough to remember when the SDLP and Official Unionists were the main parties there. Now (having dropped their support for paramilitary action, overt or covert) it is SF and DUP. I suppose that polarisation matters less when only words rather than bullets are exchanged, but harder and harder to see a way out of division.
Brexit will fundamentally adjust the way the economy works be in no doubt about that. Do you think companies and individuals will behave exactly the same if the margins of profitability are suddenly cut for say companies owned by overseas shareholders? If business is suddenly more expensive and less profitable for Japanese or American companies as an example do you think they will stay in the UK? As I say Brexiteers have a new economic theory that flies in the face of everything we have seen in the past. You and people who advocate Brexit seem to think we can to use Margret Thatcher's phrase "buck the market"?
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5kugpi
I am sorry he rejects the Lib Dems - although am ever hopeful he might come round - but I suggest that actually what needs to happen is for both the Tories and Labour parties to split into right/left moderates and right/left extremists. Government would then be possible via coalitions of the moderate versions and the Lib Dems. And sanity might return.
Although I got through Tom Bradley from kerbside to lounge in 17 minutes last week which surprised even me 😃
Positively North Korean.
1) The 50-64 age group is -10. That is dire. We know the age of voting Tory rose to 48 at last election, signs it may rise again. He is negative with ALL working age groups.
2) The dislike is strong with this one. The like is weak. The very unfavourables are way higher than the somewhats. Equally, the very favourables are much lower than the somewhats.
Let us say I want to buy some olive oil imported from Italy. I don't go to Italy to buy it . . . I go to Morrisons or ASDA to buy it. Now if I went to Italy to buy it, it would be priced in Euros, however since I am buying it from ASDA or Morrisons I pay for it in Sterling.
Or say I want to buy a new mobile phone. It will be made in the Far East so will I go to the Far East to buy it? No, I buy it locally. I got my mobile phone from Sky Mobile but you might get yours from Carphone Warehouse, or a supermarket, or Vodafone or whoever. And again, I pay for that in Sterling.
It doesn't matter where something is imported from, to the consumer it will be paid for in Sterling and CPI inflation will capture any price changes in Sterling.
Short of foreign holidays, which are a luxury and an exception, I can't think of any reason you need to spend your money not in sterling.
If I live here when the next election is called and Johnson and Corbyn are still leading their respective parties I will not vote for either of them.
No arrangement like the UK in which 40% or more of the people in two of the constituent elements - Scotland and Northern Ireland, of course - are desperate to sod off is sustainable. We shouldn't even be trying to perpetuate the arrangement.
England and Wales will probably be joined at the hip for the rest of our lifetimes, but the wider Union is finished. It's just a matter of time.
* I know a lot of people happy with a weekend in the sun, or a week in the sun, but either way you've got 50+ weeks in the UK earning and spending in sterling.
You are familiar with the concept of inflation aren't you?
I always feel those people who fail to vote rather forfeit the right to grouse afterwards. 'Well, if you don't like them, do something actually constructive and vote against them.'
If everybody who failed to vote in 2001 had voted for a party other than Labour for example, that party would probably have won.
The weak currency makes it more expensive.
You are familiar with the concept of exchange rates aren't you?
Assuming you have a mobile boarding pass, go via Terminal 4 (American Airlines) next door. You can then use the walkway to get between the terminals.
It can easily save you 20 minutes queueing.
"I guarantee Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have taken the UK out of the European Union."
https://news.sky.com/story/churchills-grandson-brexit-is-uks-worst-crisis-since-1940-11779060
https://twitter.com/51TJK/status/1159070177423691778
There were 46.6 million holiday visits abroad by UK residents in 2017 according to the ONS.
They never capitalised on it, but then Apple as near as toucher went bust as well at one time.
Does he still want a 2nd vote except not in his own Constituency.
I would expect his rating to be hitting 80% + among Conservatives and Leavers shortly.
I think he's lecherous and unprincipled, but on this forum, people completely overstate the hatred that the public have for him, because they hate him.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/el-paso-shooting-twitter/
The pound has lost about 80% of its value against the dollar over the past century.
Does that mean our standard of living has fallen by 80% over that period?
If Apple could nearly go under with the whole US market to play with, and Amiga did, forgive me if I am sceptical about the survival possibilities for European companies in what was then a much smaller potential market of twelve mid-sized states who would not have had the same threat to hold over Microsoft. The dominance of the big player was the problem.
Do you not understand that ASDA has to pay for it in Euros, and that they have to make a profit by selling it on to you?
Now, if this were a marginal then I might be motivated to back the Tory to keep Labour out (the main reason for anybody to vote Conservative being to keep Labour out, or vice versa.) But even then I'm not as sure as I once was that I would bother. The problem with voting is that politicians, naturally, treat votes as endorsements. I don't really want to endorse any of them.
If enough people feel disenchanted and vote for one of his opponents, he might lose.