She always seemed way too same and nice to be a Tory MP. The Conservatives seem to be becoming a very narrow church.
It’s funny that we only see that sort of remark from resolute opponents of the Conservatives
Come on, look at who has left, is leaving or is about to be kicked out. Did you really imagine a couple of months ago that the likes of Hammond and Rory Stewart would be kicked out of the party?
The Tories are becoming UKIP Mark 2, people like Richard Nabavi and David Herdson can see it, you and HYUFD can't (or perhaps don't mind)
It's so absurd to see Stewart portrayed as some kind of arch-Remainer, when in fact he was absurdly loyal to Theresa May in her efforts to leave with a sane deal.
His plan specifically ruled out remain or 2nd referendums, yet to no dealers he is a diehard Remainer! No dealers have their own language, sadly it doesn't conform to reality, so needs translation.
Diehard remainer = Someone who votes to Brexit and specifically rules out remain
Very weird.
May's deal was an inferior version of remain. Remain in the jurisdiction of the ECJ, remain subject to EU laws, remain in the customs union. We just lose the right to vote on the EU laws while still being subject to them.
I have no issue with no dealers disliking Stewart or thinking his plans are not great. I disagree with that but of course everyone should have their own opinions.
But calling him a diehard remainer or arch remainer when he voted for Brexit and rules out remain whereas plenty of no dealers voted against Brexit is both ridiculous and an abuse of language.
He voted to delay Brexit.
So did Rees-Mogg. Is he a Die Hard Remainer too?
No he didn't.
The decision to delay Brexit was vote 8 on this list in March:
Yes, I'm not a bad guide to these things, and as I said recently I think the number of Labour rebels will again be
Hope you're right, if Labour rebels are under 5 should be a relatively comfortable win today.
Any Labour MP siding with the government today is almost certainly going to be ending their poltical career, so it's hard to see beyond Hoey and one or two other Lexiteer retirees backing Johnson.
I don't agree. I find them really useful. It's like having your own twitter filter: a handpicked selection of politically pertinent posts that save me hours of twittersphere trawling.
I started posting this morning because when I logged on there were no comments about the most astonishing political interview in years
what interview was that
Hammond one on R4 I assume.
Kuenssberg: The former chancellor has certainly had his Shreddies this morning.
Thanks TUD, I was being sarcastic, yet another pipsqueak has popped up to whine and Scott reckoned it was momentous. Both Labour and Tories are full of these useless nonentities who are supposed to be big beasts and yet they are totally useless , self seeking wan***s. Hammond is just miffed he was dumped by a clown.
Brexit is going to be cancelled. Without an election there is no other way out. The EU will offer a two year extension which we will have to take. As per the H Benn Surrender Treaty, which instructs Boris to do this.
WIthin those two years Brexit will be euthanised.
I think this is it.
Then we head for civil war.
The far right will surge, there will be an anger in this country we have not seen for decades if not centuries at the betrayal of the Leave vote by MPs, Tommy Robinson led riots in the North and Midlands, Farage could well win the next general election as a result (he already leads Corbyn as best PM).
However to avoid that Boris will rightly refuse to budge
Civil War! Picturing septuagenerians in their range rovers driving to the cities to take on the urban youth. Calm down!
We will stay in a state of paralysis where all sides are equally unhappy as there is no majority for anything Brexit related for years to come. Meanwhile Germany, France et al will gradually pick off our better companies and jobs, get a higher percentage of the better start ups, gain more influence with the rest of the world.
HYUFD is PROBABLY exaggerating, a lot, but no one can be entirely sure how the country would react to the annulment of Brexit.
It depends how it happens. If it is through an election and a second referendum, that will vent most of the steam. That at least is democratic.
If Brexit is scotched by endless delays and/or a revoke, that could be very nasty. We need some form of proper closure.
And ultra-Remainers should be careful what they wish for.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
We did. We agreed a 50 year special status for Hong Kong which is now international law and the Chinese are violating.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
Return it as per terms of the lease, you mean Malc.
No expert Topping but I bet they did a shoddy job on it. still the point is they are totally helpless in trying to influence China in any way. Given the state of the violence now it is only a matter of time before they have the army sort it out, only surprise is they have waited so long.
She always seemed way too same and nice to be a Tory MP. The Conservatives seem to be becoming a very narrow church.
It’s funny that we only see that sort of remark from resolute opponents of the Conservatives
Come on, look at who has left, is leaving or is about to be kicked out. Did you really imagine a couple of months ago that the likes of Hammond and Rory Stewart would be kicked out of the party?
The Tories are becoming UKIP Mark 2, people like Richard Nabavi and David Herdson can see it, you and HYUFD can't (or perhaps don't mind)
It's so absurd to see Stewart portrayed as some kind of arch-Remainer, when in fact he was absurdly loyal to Theresa May in her efforts to leave with a sane deal.
His plan specifically ruled out remain or 2nd referendums, yet to no dealers he is a diehard Remainer! No dealers have their own language, sadly it doesn't conform to reality, so needs translation.
Diehard remainer = Someone who votes to Brexit and specifically rules out remain
Very weird.
They are a bunch of wierdos. The Tory version of Momentum with all its childish, irrational zealotry has taken over the Conservative Party
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
Return it as per terms of the lease, you mean Malc.
Only part of it needed to be returned.
But Malc is being unreasonable, it was sorted out when we gave Hong Kong away. China has gradually reneged on their commitments which is no shock but what else could have been done?
Brexit is going to be cancelled. Without an election there is no other way out. The EU will offer a two year extension which we will have to take. As per the H Benn Surrender Treaty, which instructs Boris to do this.
WIthin those two years Brexit will be euthanised.
I think this is it.
Then we head for civil war.
The far right will surge, there will be an anger in this country we have not seen for decades if not centuries at the betrayal of the Leave vote by MPs, Tommy Robinson led riots in the North and Midlands, Farage could well win the next general election as a result (he already leads Corbyn as best PM).
However to avoid that Boris will rightly refuse to budge
Civil war waged by you and whose army, you big girl's blouse? Leavers are at their most impotent and pathetic when they do this I wants to make your flesh creep, lovely little country and what a shame if anything was to 'appen to it, shtick. What do you think the police are for?
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
We did. We agreed a 50 year special status for Hong Kong which is now international law and the Chinese are violating.
As a co-signatory we are obligated to speak out.
The Chinese agreed it. One country two systems. They are operating on the "one country" part of that whereby they see a threat to the functioning of Hong Kong.
What would your thoughts be if Extinction Rebellion shut down LHR for a week? Happy to let them crack on?
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
Return it as per terms of the lease, you mean Malc.
No expert Topping but I bet they did a shoddy job on it. still the point is they are totally helpless in trying to influence China in any way. Given the state of the violence now it is only a matter of time before they have the army sort it out, only surprise is they have waited so long.
She always seemed way too same and nice to be a Tory MP. The Conservatives seem to be becoming a very narrow church.
It’s funny that we only see that sort of remark from resolute opponents of the Conservatives
Come on, look at who has left, is leaving or is about to be kicked out. Did you really imagine a couple of months ago that the likes of Hammond and Rory Stewart would be kicked out of the party?
The Tories are becoming UKIP Mark 2, people like Richard Nabavi and David Herdson can see it, you and HYUFD can't (or perhaps don't mind)
It's so absurd to see Stewart portrayed as some kind of arch-Remainer, when in fact he was absurdly loyal to Theresa May in her efforts to leave with a sane deal.
His plan specifically ruled out remain or 2nd referendums, yet to no dealers he is a diehard Remainer! No dealers have their own language, sadly it doesn't conform to reality, so needs translation.
Diehard remainer = Someone who votes to Brexit and specifically rules out remain
Very weird.
May's deal was an inferior version of remain. Remain in the jurisdiction of the ECJ, remain subject to EU laws, remain in the customs union. We just lose the right to vote on the EU laws while still being subject to them.
I have no issue with no dealers disliking Stewart or thinking his plans are not great. I disagree with that but of course everyone should have their own opinions.
But calling him a diehard remainer or arch remainer when he voted for Brexit and rules out remain whereas plenty of no dealers voted against Brexit is both ridiculous and an abuse of language.
He voted to delay Brexit.
So did Rees-Mogg. Is he a Die Hard Remainer too?
No he didn't.
The decision to delay Brexit was vote 8 on this list in March:
I don't agree. I find them really useful. It's like having your own twitter filter: a handpicked selection of politically pertinent posts that save me hours of twittersphere trawling.
I started posting this morning because when I logged on there were no comments about the most astonishing political interview in years
what interview was that
Hammond one on R4 I assume.
Kuenssberg: The former chancellor has certainly had his Shreddies this morning.
Thanks TUD, I was being sarcastic, yet another pipsqueak has popped up to whine and Scott reckoned it was momentous. Both Labour and Tories are full of these useless nonentities who are supposed to be big beasts and yet they are totally useless , self seeking wan***s. Hammond is just miffed he was dumped by a clown.
Sorry, my sarcasm detector not full activated!
I wonder who are the memorable big beasts of the SNP? Oh, the little fat bloke. Any news on his trial?
Brexit is going to be cancelled. Without an election there is no other way out. The EU will offer a two year extension which we will have to take. As per the H Benn Surrender Treaty, which instructs Boris to do this.
WIthin those two years Brexit will be euthanised.
I think this is it.
Then we head for civil war.
The far right will surge, there will be an anger in this country we have not seen for decades if not centuries at the betrayal of the Leave vote by MPs, Tommy Robinson led riots in the North and Midlands, Farage could well win the next general election as a result (he already leads Corbyn as best PM).
However to avoid that Boris will rightly refuse to budge
Civil War! Picturing septuagenerians in their range rovers driving to the cities to take on the urban youth. Calm down!
We will stay in a state of paralysis where all sides are equally unhappy as there is no majority for anything Brexit related for years to come. Meanwhile Germany, France et al will gradually pick off our better companies and jobs, get a higher percentage of the better start ups, gain more influence with the rest of the world.
HYUFD is PROBABLY exaggerating, a lot, but no one can be entirely sure how the country would react to the annulment of Brexit.
It depends how it happens. If it is through an election and a second referendum, that will vent most of the steam. That at least is democratic.
If Brexit is scotched by endless delays and/or a revoke, that could be very nasty. We need some form of proper closure.
And ultra-Remainers should be careful what they wish for.
There are not many ultra remainers around. Endless delays is most likely, but not because it is some dastardly plan, simply because the country is divided and there is no consensus. Perhaps a 2nd referendum could work if both sides get tired enough of the divisions and delays, surprisingly we are not there yet, even when no deals best chance of happening would be thru a 2nd ref not a GE.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
Been thinking about Farage's announcement last night that in the event of leaving with a deal they'd fight every seat in the East of England. A fatalist vs Priti Patel. Could be interesting.
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Who holds the seat at the moment?
The Tories.
I vote in Ben Bradshaw's seat (Lab - Exeter), which is also a Lab-Con seat. It's not a key marginal but if votes flood from the Labour Party to the LDs then the Cons would win not the LDs. Because Mr Bradshaw has been a stong critic of Corbyn and a proud Remainer, and because I would hate it if Mr Johnson were to increase the number of Con MPs, I will vote for him again.
He also gets some Kudos from me because he gives interviews on German radio seaking fluent German.
I don't think Exeter is winnable for the Tories anymore, even with a big Lab to LD swing. At every election since 1997 it has moved to Labour relative to the national result.
I hope you are right. I know quite a few there who are shifting from Labour to LD, although this is of course just anecdotal information.
Brexit is going to be cancelled. Without an election there is no other way out. The EU will offer a two year extension which we will have to take. As per the H Benn Surrender Treaty, which instructs Boris to do this.
WIthin those two years Brexit will be euthanised.
I think this is it.
Then we head for civil war.
The far right will surge, there will be an anger in this country we have not seen for decades if not centuries at the betrayal of the Leave vote by MPs, Tommy Robinson led riots in the North and Midlands, Farage could well win the next general election as a result (he already leads Corbyn as best PM).
However to avoid that Boris will rightly refuse to budge
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
He also said that Boris would hold a ref. in NI on the backstop.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
Am I right in thinking there is a lot of defecating in the streets.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
We did. We agreed a 50 year special status for Hong Kong which is now international law and the Chinese are violating.
As a co-signatory we are obligated to speak out.
The Chinese agreed it. One country two systems. They are operating on the "one country" part of that whereby they see a threat to the functioning of Hong Kong.
What would your thoughts be if Extinction Rebellion shut down LHR for a week? Happy to let them crack on?
They are arresting members of the legislature, refusing to pull an extradiction bill that enjoys virtually no support in Hong Kong and would allow them to pull their political opponents off the street of Hong Kong without trial, and police are using ever increasing means of brutality. Protestors have taken to the streets because the political system isn't listening to them.
They are not honouring the agreement, and your apologising for Beijing both surprises and disgusts me.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
He also said that Boris would hold a ref. in NI on the backstop.
If Boris had the MPs he likely would. It's an obvious route out of this mess. However he is reliant on the DUP. At the mo.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
That’s happening here too. The middle class is disappearing. Brexit will only increase this.
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Yes it's an interesting one. For many, perhaps most Tories, as @HYUFD correctly points out, the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in charge dispels any worries about voting for the Tories, whatever the hell they are doing under BoJo or anyone else.
The question for you is whether you are willing to overlook Jezza and his anti-semitism, not to say socialist agenda. If you can live with both (something @kinabalu is easily able to do for example), then vote Labour. If not, Cons.
I think if you're a moderate Tory willing to vote LD, but live in a Tory/Lab marginal, a vote for Labour shouldn't be too hard to rationalise.
Sure, Corbyn is too left wing. But, with the SNP, it is practically impossible for him to get a majority alone. If you trust LDs, they will moderate Labour to a point....
I'm not sure that in the current febrile times one can safely make such an assumption. Indeed some of us have already taken a punt on the very long odds which have been available on a Labour outright majority...
Well, taking a punt on those long odds may be profitable for betting, but I think politically unlikely. The SNP will clean up Scotland leaving maybe half a dozen seats left between LDs and Lab (I think Tories lose all their Scottish MPs). LDs look to be making gains in the South East, Hertfordshire and other bits of moderate suburbia. Tories prob hold around the 300 mark, but can't get that majority. Labour will be around 250. They will almost certainly need 80 - 100 non Lab MPs to support their cause. They will get moderated.
But remember the Tories will take Battersea.
What makes you say that? It's the next door constituency to mine, very remain, more likely to swing away from the Tories IMO.
Rees Mogg voted against the motion, Stewart voted for it. Stewart voted against Brexit not Mogg.
Mogg did not vote for the MVs. He is complicit in delaying Brexit.
The MV's weren't required to leave. We had already voted to leave the EU with or without a deal, the only way to change that was to extend.
Stewart voted to extend, Mogg did not. Anyone who chose to extend is reason why we are still in the EU. If we hadn't voted to extend we would have left in March automatically.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Who holds the seat at the moment?
The Tories.
I vote in Ben Bradshaw's seat (Lab - Exeter), which is also a Lab-Con seat. It's not a key marginal but if votes flood from the Labour Party to the LDs then the Cons would win not the LDs. Because Mr Bradshaw has been a stong critic of Corbyn and a proud Remainer, and because I would hate it if Mr Johnson were to increase the number of Con MPs, I will vote for him again.
He also gets some Kudos from me because he gives interviews on German radio seaking fluent German.
I don't think Exeter is winnable for the Tories anymore, even with a big Lab to LD swing. At every election since 1997 it has moved to Labour relative to the national result.
I hope you are right. I know quite a few there who are shifting from Labour to LD, although this is of course just anecdotal information.
It's interesting how Exeter used to be more Tory than Plymouth, which had one or two seats that Labour could win like Devonport. Now it's the other way round, as Labour becomes more popular with middle-class / university voters and less popular with the working-class voters of the Plymouth council estates.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
Am I right in thinking there is a lot of defecating in the streets.
That same article offers the astonishing statistic that SF has 7000+ homeless. For comparison, London (which has its own unpleasant homeless problem) has half that. Maybe 3,500.
And London is TWELVE times the size of Frisco. Ooof.
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Yes it's an interesting one. For many, perhaps most Tories, as @HYUFD correctly points out, the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in charge dispels any worries about voting for the Tories, whatever the hell they are doing under BoJo or anyone else.
The question for you is whether you are willing to overlook Jezza and his anti-semitism, not to say socialist agenda. If you can live with both (something @kinabalu is easily able to do for example), then vote Labour. If not, Cons.
I think if you're a moderate Tory willing to vote LD, but live in a Tory/Lab marginal, a vote for Labour shouldn't be too hard to rationalise.
Sure, Corbyn is too left wing. But, with the SNP, it is practically impossible for him to get a majority alone. If you trust LDs, they will moderate Labour to a point....
I'm not sure that in the current febrile times one can safely make such an assumption. Indeed some of us have already taken a punt on the very long odds which have been available on a Labour outright majority...
Well, taking a punt on those long odds may be profitable for betting, but I think politically unlikely. The SNP will clean up Scotland leaving maybe half a dozen seats left between LDs and Lab (I think Tories lose all their Scottish MPs). LDs look to be making gains in the South East, Hertfordshire and other bits of moderate suburbia. Tories prob hold around the 300 mark, but can't get that majority. Labour will be around 250. They will almost certainly need 80 - 100 non Lab MPs to support their cause. They will get moderated.
But remember the Tories will take Battersea.
What makes you say that? It's the next door constituency to mine, very remain, more likely to swing away from the Tories IMO.
I don’t think they will unless the LD, Lab split is extreme. I was just repeating a prediction from our resident guru @HYUFD.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
That’s happening here too. The middle class is disappearing. Brexit will only increase this.
What do you mean by "here" - if you mean the UK as a whole, you are very wrong. If you mean London, then you might have a point.
Brexit is going to be cancelled. Without an election there is no other way out. The EU will offer a two year extension which we will have to take. As per the H Benn Surrender Treaty, which instructs Boris to do this.
WIthin those two years Brexit will be euthanised.
I think this is it.
Then we head for civil war.
The far right will surge, there will be an anger in this country we have not seen for decades if not centuries at the betrayal of the Leave vote by MPs, Tommy Robinson led riots in the North and Midlands, Farage could well win the next general election as a result (he already leads Corbyn as best PM).
However to avoid that Boris will rightly refuse to budge
Calm down HYUFD, it is only early morning and you are in your 'war' mood
If it does happen over two years then the country will have moved on leaving a few dissidents while everyone else gets on with their lives
I’m with Cromwell.
Which side, I wonder, would Cromwell have been on? the EEC's founding document was, after all, the Treaty Of Rome. And in 1975 some of our traditional NonConformist Liberals were unhappy with campaigning FOR because of that.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
We should run an opinion poll to find out which of these views is correct. Then spin it relentlessly.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
Suggesting approvingly that Loyalist enclaves in NI would take up arms to defend their Britishness, or that Westminster would send the riot police to Scotland to truncheon indy supporting grannies Rajoy stylee, would be toxic if they weren't quite so cretinous.
A general election is a powerful spotlight indeed. I find it very hard to believe that an obvious and inveterate liar like Johnson will win. People just don't like being lied to, and over a 5 week campaign he will be found out.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
I seemed to remember Plato was "detected" as a bot, but she was a real person, whom a number of PB long time member met.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
That’s happening here too. The middle class is disappearing. Brexit will only increase this.
What do you mean by "here" - if you mean the UK as a whole, you are very wrong. If you mean London, then you might have a point.
How am I wrong? All our recent ‘wage growth’ is down to rises in the Minimum Wage. White collar, middle class pay has been stagnant for years and years.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
We should run an opinion poll to find out which of these views is correct. Then spin it relentlessly.
The HYUFD sub sample would be crucial in this scenario.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Welcome to PB
It's turned into Remain Central here but there are still a few sensible Brexit supporters left.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
A general election is a powerful spotlight indeed. I find it very hard to believe that an obvious and inveterate liar like Johnson will win. People just don't like being lied to, and over a 5 week campaign he will be found out.
I remember a lot of people saying that in 2008... And 2012.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
It is not a fact. If the govt offered soft Brexit it would pass. If it offered any Brexit flavour with a referendum it would pass. If the govt is not happy with either of those it can request an elections.
The 2017 GE is just as much a democratic vote as the 2016 Ref and more recent too. Only 1.8% voted for no deal supporting parties at the 2017 GE.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Well Britain voted in its MPs after voting to leave the EU. The only alternative to parliamentary sovereignty is anarchy. our whole system of government rests on a majority in the House of Commons. They are going about it in a strange way which understandably is attracting criticism but in the end THEY have to decide. And if we don't like it we vote them out when we get the chance.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
S/he's banging the civil war drum, talking about gunpowder and street violence. Whatever insights s/he brings to the forum, s/he is clearly much more active than most tweeps and clearly quite aggressive. That is the explanation for getting identified as a bot, a diagnosis I'm seeking explain as mistaken.
By the way, have you sobered up after yesterday's excesses? I'm afraid you embarrassed yourself somewhat on here.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
That’s happening here too. The middle class is disappearing. Brexit will only increase this.
What do you mean by "here" - if you mean the UK as a whole, you are very wrong. If you mean London, then you might have a point.
How am I wrong? All our recent ‘wage growth’ is down to rises in the Minimum Wage. White collar, middle class pay has been stagnant for years and years.
That doesn't mean that the middle class has disappeared, does it? They might be an unhappy bunch, but they still exist. It's just to that they aren't to be found in large numbers in some cities.
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Yes it's an interesting one. For many, perhaps most Tories, as @HYUFD correctly points out, the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in charge dispels any worries about voting for the Tories, whatever the hell they are doing under BoJo or anyone else.
The question for you is whether you are willing to overlook Jezza and his anti-semitism, not to say socialist agenda. If you can live with both (something @kinabalu is easily able to do for example), then vote Labour. If not, Cons.
I think if you're a moderate Tory willing to vote LD, but live in a Tory/Lab marginal, a vote for Labour shouldn't be too hard to rationalise.
Sure, Corbyn is too left wing. But, with the SNP, it is practically impossible for him to get a majority alone. If you trust LDs, they will moderate Labour to a point....
I'm not sure that in the current febrile times one can safely make such an assumption. Indeed some of us have already taken a punt on the very long odds which have been available on a Labour outright majority...
Well, taking a punt on those long odds may be profitable for betting, but I think politically unlikely. The SNP will clean up Scotland leaving maybe half a dozen seats left between LDs and Lab (I think Tories lose all their Scottish MPs). LDs look to be making gains in the South East, Hertfordshire and other bits of moderate suburbia. Tories prob hold around the 300 mark, but can't get that majority. Labour will be around 250. They will almost certainly need 80 - 100 non Lab MPs to support their cause. They will get moderated.
But remember the Tories will take Battersea.
At an Election, or the Civil War which has been mentioned?
"What does this all mean? Chakrabarti seems to be setting up to three conditions.
1) The Benn bill, designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, would have to pass. That is what getting the legislation “locked down” implies. But there is no chance of that bill becoming law before Wednesday, when Johnson wants to hold a vote on an early election if he loses tonight.
2) Ministers would have to promise to obey the bill. As Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, revealed in an interview on Sunday, at the moment they are not giving those assurances. And in in his statement outside Number 10 yesterday, Johnson said he would never ask the EU to delay Brexit - implying that he would not be bound by the law if it passed and if, under its terms, it became obligatory to seek an article 50 extension.
3) Ministers would have to give an assurance that the date of the election would not change after MPs voted for one. Tony Lloyd implied last night that it would be best for Labour to wait until an article 50 extension had been secured, and 31 October had passed without a no-deal Brexit, before allowing an election. An alternative option might be to hold an election before 31 October, knowing that if Labour won, Corbyn could then request an article 50 extension (or, in extremis, revoke article 50 - although he has never said he would do that). But yesterday there were suggestions that Johnson could agree to an election on 14 October, and then change the date once parliaments was dissolved to ensure it happened after a no-deal on 31 October."
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
We did. We agreed a 50 year special status for Hong Kong which is now international law and the Chinese are violating.
As a co-signatory we are obligated to speak out.
The Chinese agreed it. One country two systems. They are operating on the "one country" part of that whereby they see a threat to the functioning of Hong Kong.
What would your thoughts be if Extinction Rebellion shut down LHR for a week? Happy to let them crack on?
They are arresting members of the legislature, refusing to pull an extradiction bill that enjoys virtually no support in Hong Kong and would allow them to pull their political opponents off the street of Hong Kong without trial, and police are using ever increasing means of brutality. Protestors have taken to the streets because the political system isn't listening to them.
They are not honouring the agreement, and your apologising for Beijing both surprises and disgusts me.
What they are doing in HK is trivial compare to the mass surveillance, repression and technology driven social engineering in Xinjiang. In the unlikely event that I,Raabot suddenly develops a moral conscience and the courage to voice it he should probably start with that.
@ydoethur (and others), a historical question. I’m aware that royal assent was last used by Queen Anne and refusal was last considered by George V in relation to the Government of Ireland Act. Are there any 18th or 19th century examples of threats to withhold royal assent? I seem to recall there are but my memory is not obliging me on this occasion.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
S/he's banging the civil war drum, talking about gunpowder and street violence. Whatever insights s/he brings to the forum, s/he is clearly much more active than most tweeps and clearly quite aggressive. That is the explanation for getting identified as a bot, a diagnosis I'm seeking explain as mistaken.
By the way, have you sobered up after yesterday's excesses? I'm afraid you embarrassed yourself somewhat on here.
Labour is giving enough wiggle room this morning. Corbyn wants a pop at Boris at PMQs, and to see something in writing about dates or no deal, but there’ll be an election.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
Especially when they have just activated all their placemen.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
A smart person would be skeptical of both sources. But you are not that smart.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
I seemed to remember Plato was "detected" as a bot, but she was a real person, whom a number of PB long time member met.
HY is a real person and easily identified in real life if you care to piece together the various bits of information he has disclosed.
Is there ever a more useless politician than Dominic Raab
Totally silent on Hong Kong.
What do you want him to say? It's not in the interests of the new Global Britain to raise the ire of China. Shutting the fuck up is probably the only, and coincidentally the best, thing he can do about it.
Better to shut up rather than prove he is an ineffectual fool and as you say, what could they do to China in any event. Time to sort this out was when they were giving Hong Kong away.
We did. We agreed a 50 year special status for Hong Kong which is now international law and the Chinese are violating.
As a co-signatory we are obligated to speak out.
The Chinese agreed it. One country two systems. They are operating on the "one country" part of that whereby they see a threat to the functioning of Hong Kong.
What would your thoughts be if Extinction Rebellion shut down LHR for a week? Happy to let them crack on?
They are arresting members of the legislature, refusing to pull an extradiction bill that enjoys virtually no support in Hong Kong and would allow them to pull their political opponents off the street of Hong Kong without trial, and police are using ever increasing means of brutality. Protestors have taken to the streets because the political system isn't listening to them.
They are not honouring the agreement, and your apologising for Beijing both surprises and disgusts me.
I'm not apologising for anyone I'm trying to explain to you the situation in China/Hong Kong as you clearly don't understand the context or content of the Joint Declaration, or the PRC as currently constituted, or the efficacy or otherwise of the UK, the former colonial power, weighing in on the matter.
It seems terribly unfair to you but that's only because you don't understand what's happening.
And your answer to the Extinction Rebellion and LHR question?
I live in a Labour-Tory marginal. My instinctive vote is for the LDs, but I don’t believe they can “win here”. I want to avoid a Comrade Corbyn government as much as possible, but I find myself despairing at the thought of voting Tory. What do I do?
Yes it's an interesting one. For many, perhaps most Tories, as @HYUFD correctly points out, the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in charge dispels any worries about voting for the Tories, whatever the hell they are doing under BoJo or anyone else.
The question for you is whether you are willing to overlook Jezza and his anti-semitism, not to say socialist agenda. If you can live with both (something @kinabalu is easily able to do for example), then vote Labour. If not, Cons.
I think if you're a moderate Tory willing to vote LD, but live in a Tory/Lab marginal, a vote for Labour shouldn't be too hard to rationalise.
Sure, Corbyn is too left wing. But, with the SNP, it is practically impossible for him to get a majority alone. If you trust LDs, they will moderate Labour to a point....
I'm not sure that in the current febrile times one can safely make such an assumption. Indeed some of us have already taken a punt on the very long odds which have been available on a Labour outright majority...
Well, taking a punt on those long odds may be profitable for betting, but I think politically unlikely. The SNP will clean up Scotland leaving maybe half a dozen seats left between LDs and Lab (I think Tories lose all their Scottish MPs). LDs look to be making gains in the South East, Hertfordshire and other bits of moderate suburbia. Tories prob hold around the 300 mark, but can't get that majority. Labour will be around 250. They will almost certainly need 80 - 100 non Lab MPs to support their cause. They will get moderated.
But remember the Tories will take Battersea.
What makes you say that? It's the next door constituency to mine, very remain, more likely to swing away from the Tories IMO.
I don’t think they will unless the LD, Lab split is extreme. I was just repeating a prediction from our resident guru @HYUFD.
Oh I see. Can safely ignore that prediction then.
FWIW I think there will be a great deal of tactical voting by remainers if there is an early election - this will keep seats like Battersea, where the Lib Dems have never been active and could not hope to win, in the Labour column.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
A smart person would be skeptical of both sources. But you are not that smart.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
The problem is that he is a liar. But he can show us he’s not in this instance by publishing the proposals the UK government has put forward for negotiation, and who is involved in the negotiations.
These were UKIP's '6 key Brexit tests' in the 2017 manifesto. Where would these position them now? : 'Free Britain from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, and if desired, relinquish membership of the European Court of Human Rights
Full control of immigration and asylum policies, and border control
Control of Britain's 200 mile maritime exclusive economic zone, and no constraints on its fishing fleet
Retake seat on the World Trade Organisation and resume right to sign trade agreements with other entities or supra-national bodies
No 'divorce' payment to the EU or contribution to the EU budget. UK must be paid share of financial assets
Brexit must be done and dusted before the end of 2019.'
I don't rate the chances of civil war but a Farage government would seem a more worrying possibility. Not least since it's unclear if he is at all restrained by his party's constitution.
"What does this all mean? Chakrabarti seems to be setting up to three conditions.
1) The Benn bill, designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, would have to pass. That is what getting the legislation “locked down” implies. But there is no chance of that bill becoming law before Wednesday, when Johnson wants to hold a vote on an early election if he loses tonight.
2) Ministers would have to promise to obey the bill. As Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, revealed in an interview on Sunday, at the moment they are not giving those assurances. And in in his statement outside Number 10 yesterday, Johnson said he would never ask the EU to delay Brexit - implying that he would not be bound by the law if it passed and if, under its terms, it became obligatory to seek an article 50 extension.
3) Ministers would have to give an assurance that the date of the election would not change after MPs voted for one. Tony Lloyd implied last night that it would be best for Labour to wait until an article 50 extension had been secured, and 31 October had passed without a no-deal Brexit, before allowing an election. An alternative option might be to hold an election before 31 October, knowing that if Labour won, Corbyn could then request an article 50 extension (or, in extremis, revoke article 50 - although he has never said he would do that). But yesterday there were suggestions that Johnson could agree to an election on 14 October, and then change the date once parliaments was dissolved to ensure it happened after a no-deal on 31 October."
Sounds pretty sensible, actually...
It does from a Labour perspective. Not from Johnson point of view,.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Welcome, Mr (I assume) Brick. The British people, subsequent to the referendum, voted for this Parliament. The members are not some alien species, parachuted in from Outer Space. Members of Parliament are not elected as delegates; they are representatives, elected to use their best judgement as the situation develops, and they are often in possession of information not available to the general public, and are supposed. at least, to have given considerable thought to what they are doing.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
I'm not. EUrocrats never have to face the electorate. They can say whatever shit suits them with impunity.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
I seemed to remember Plato was "detected" as a bot, but she was a real person, whom a number of PB long time member met.
HY is a real person and easily identified in real life if you care to piece together the various bits of information he has disclosed.
Absolutely and an honourable one at that, standing for public office, which is more than most on PB do. But he is at the moment going through a very difficult period of political reorientation and I think is in the angry phase.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
You are blatantly wrong. This view is repeated over and over and over again from several PB commentators.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
The point is that there is no evidence to the contrary. Do you know a single respected and impartial commentator who believes progress is being made? I have strong views on Brexit but also follow it objectively as part of my job, and to the extent it is possible to be objective I have to tell you that my view based on what I consider to be informed opinion is that no progress is being made.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
I'm not. EUrocrats never have to face the electorate. They can say whatever shit suits them with impunity.
Whereas Boris's shit can come back to haunt him.
Wow, using this argument you would believe Mr Johnson more than you would the Pope or the Archboshop of Canterbury.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
That is unnecessarily unpleasant. HYUFD is strident, loyal and partisan. But s/he is also quite insightful and sometimes has insider info. Cf the proroguing,
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
Suggesting approvingly that Loyalist enclaves in NI would take up arms to defend their Britishness, or that Westminster would send the riot police to Scotland to truncheon indy supporting grannies Rajoy stylee, would be toxic if they weren't quite so cretinous.
Pretty standard Brit Nat fare these days. They consider the Irish, Scots and Welsh to be vermin that must be controlled.
What this site seems to be missing this morning is that Britain voted to leave the EU and today we have a Parliament using archaic rules to try to yet again delay this. It is a fact that this Parliament will never vote for any deal with the EU so whilst this Parliament carries on the democratic vote of the British people will continue to be ignored. Is everyone happy with that?
Welcome, Mr (I assume) Brick. The British people, subsequent to the referendum, voted for this Parliament. The members are not some alien species, parachuted in from Outer Space. Members of Parliament are not elected as delegates; they are representatives, elected to use their best judgement as the situation develops, and they are often in possession of information not available to the general public, and are supposed. at least, to have given considerable thought to what they are doing.
Those BOT detectors aren't brilliant. They seem to work in part on volume. So very politically engaged trolls like HYUFD get labelled as bots, because they post angry invective on average 11 times a day for years on end. S/he isn't normal, and is doubtless toxic, but that does not a bot make.
I seemed to remember Plato was "detected" as a bot, but she was a real person, whom a number of PB long time member met.
HY is a real person and easily identified in real life if you care to piece together the various bits of information he has disclosed.
Absolutely and an honourable one at that, standing for public office, which is more than most on PB do. But he is at the moment going through a very difficult period of political reorientation and I think is in the angry phase.
You might not have meant it this way, but standing for office doesn't make someone honourable. A good number of honourable and dishonourable people want power. In fact, I'd say the dishonourable are somewhat more likely to seek public office.
Don't know if anyone cares but the £ just went below 1.20 against the $
Booking hotel for trade show in San Francisco. £400 a night for basic 3 star hotel
SF is ludicrous
I’m going out there in Jan and even with a bulk discount the cheapest hotel we can get (the Hyatt) is over $700 a night
All my friends who’ve been there recently say it is also quite horrible. The only people who can afford to live there are stupidly wealthy but boring techies - and the homeless. The streets are full of bums and crackheads and the overpriced coffee shops are full of nerds with nothing to say.
It is a horrible place. The number of homeless, and their absolute destitution, is like nothing else I have seen anywhere outside of India.
From the reports I've read, the rich in SF are in total denial about the state of their city. They don't want to admit that it's a become a place which only consists of very rich and very poor people, with almost nothing in between.
Am I right in thinking there is a lot of defecating in the streets.
That same article offers the astonishing statistic that SF has 7000+ homeless. For comparison, London (which has its own unpleasant homeless problem) has half that. Maybe 3,500.
And London is TWELVE times the size of Frisco. Ooof.
It's not just that these people are homeless, it is that they are literally in rags and often barefoot, too. They re filthy and haunted and have nowhere to go for help or consolation. They are the living dead. And there are children on the streets, too. The last time i was there I saw a mother and a baby, wearing next to nothing, covered from head to toe in filth. It was precisely how you imagine the worst parts of the east End to have been during the 19th century. It is obscene. I have not been to Seattle, but colleagues tell me it is pretty much the same there. These are among the richest places on earth.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
A smart person would be skeptical of both sources. But you are not that smart.
No, it's entirely rational to be more inclined to believe the EU. That is not the same thing as unconditional credulity.
For a start, the EU requires the acquiescence of all its members to any renegotiated position, so although it's entirely possible they can be somewhat disingenuous in negotiation, there are significant constraints on that. Set against that, we have a reasonable amount of evidence that Boris's renegotiation plan is a sham with no real purpose beyond establishing a position for internal UK politics.
One can be sceptical of both, while strongly inclined to believe one more than the other.
I think it is a realistic scenario to believe, in a snap GE before Brexit, that: Tories would get 30 - 35%, Lab 25 - 28%, LD 18 - 20%, BXP 10 - 15% and then odds and sods to Greens, PC, SNP etc.
This looks like another hung parliament, but Tories still likely the largest party. What Tories cannot do in another hung parliament scenario, though, is govern. Labour / SNP / LD probably could govern, and indeed even those who dislike LDs because they are remainers and the Nats because, well, they're Nats, would admit that they would be a moderating force on any Corbyn government.
To me, a Lab / LD / SNP gov looks the most stable and likely popular position. Indeed, whilst many don't like Corbyn now, I think if he had to govern in coalition with LDs and made some populist demsoc reforms, reformed voting etc. he would become quite popular quite quickly. The main issues would be getting Brexit and IndyRef 2 out the way, but I think IndyRef 2 under a Labour government makes it much more likely they remain in the union, and Brexit negotiations with Lab leading, and LDs wanting to remain make a soft / no Brexit more likely (which will really annoy about a third to two-fifths of the country, but will actually unify and mollify the rest)
If there is a Lab/LD/SNP arrangement and Brexit is cancelled then so, too, is any prospect of IndyRef2. IndyRef2 is premised on a "material change" having taken place after IndyRef1, ie, Brexit, particularly of the hard sort. Support in Scotland for a second go will plummet like a stone if Brexit and Boris bite the dust. For the SNP this will be yet another example of the law of unintended consequences around Brexit, such as the loss of all those seats in 2017.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
I'm not. EUrocrats never have to face the electorate. They can say whatever shit suits them with impunity.
Whereas Boris's shit can come back to haunt him.
He seems to have done ok on the shit haunting stuff so far despite the copious amounts of it.
What's the fucking point in taking quotes like this, at face value? Why do you people always believe whatever the EU says, but presume that No 10 is lying?
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
I’m more inclined to believe the EU than Boris Johnson.
A smart person would be skeptical of both sources. But you are not that smart.
No, it's entirely rational to be more inclined to believe the EU. That is not the same thing as unconditional credulity.
For a start, the EU requires the acquiescence of all its members to any renegotiated position, so although it's entirely possible they can be somewhat disingenuous in negotiation, there are significant constraints on that. Set against that, we have a reasonable amount of evidence that Boris's renegotiation plan is a sham with no real purpose beyond establishing a position for internal UK politics.
One can be sceptical of both, while strongly inclined to believe one more than the other.
that made sense until you added the word strongly.
Comments
The decision to delay Brexit was vote 8 on this list in March:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/mar/12/how-did-your-mp-vote-in-the-march-brexit-votes
Rees Mogg voted against the motion, Stewart voted for it. Stewart voted against Brexit not Mogg.
It depends how it happens. If it is through an election and a second referendum, that will vent most of the steam. That at least is democratic.
If Brexit is scotched by endless delays and/or a revoke, that could be very nasty. We need some form of proper closure.
And ultra-Remainers should be careful what they wish for.
As a co-signatory we are obligated to speak out.
But Malc is being unreasonable, it was sorted out when we gave Hong Kong away. China has gradually reneged on their commitments which is no shock but what else could have been done?
What would your thoughts be if Extinction Rebellion shut down LHR for a week? Happy to let them crack on?
"Toxic" is way over the top. Tsk.
A fatalist vs Priti Patel. Could be interesting.
They are not honouring the agreement, and your apologising for Beijing both surprises and disgusts me.
Very diappointed in Jezza.
Stewart voted to extend, Mogg did not. Anyone who chose to extend is reason why we are still in the EU. If we hadn't voted to extend we would have left in March automatically.
https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/People-are-pooping-more-than-ever-on-the-streets-13778680.php
That same article offers the astonishing statistic that SF has 7000+ homeless. For comparison, London (which has its own unpleasant homeless problem) has half that. Maybe 3,500.
And London is TWELVE times the size of Frisco. Ooof.
But John Major as a Tory Wet has got the most votes ever in a GE and won an unexpected overall majority.
"Well they would say that wouldn't they?"
Nothing happens with the EU until 48 hours before deadlines.
Sometimes in life you just need to be lucky who your opponent is.
It's turned into Remain Central here but there are still a few sensible Brexit supporters left.
Of course the EU will say that No progress has been made. They want Brexit cancelled, and the British brought to heel. They can see they are close to this goal, by watching the same TV as us, and reading the same tweets.
How does it benefit them, to throw Boris a lifeline and say Talks are going great? Answer: it doesn't. So they imply he is a liar. Because this suits them.
Oh, and welcome.
The 2017 GE is just as much a democratic vote as the 2016 Ref and more recent too. Only 1.8% voted for no deal supporting parties at the 2017 GE.
Welcome to the site!
And if we don't like it we vote them out when we get the chance.
By the way, have you sobered up after yesterday's excesses? I'm afraid you embarrassed yourself somewhat on here.
"What does this all mean? Chakrabarti seems to be setting up to three conditions.
1) The Benn bill, designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, would have to pass. That is what getting the legislation “locked down” implies. But there is no chance of that bill becoming law before Wednesday, when Johnson wants to hold a vote on an early election if he loses tonight.
2) Ministers would have to promise to obey the bill. As Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, revealed in an interview on Sunday, at the moment they are not giving those assurances. And in in his statement outside Number 10 yesterday, Johnson said he would never ask the EU to delay Brexit - implying that he would not be bound by the law if it passed and if, under its terms, it became obligatory to seek an article 50 extension.
3) Ministers would have to give an assurance that the date of the election would not change after MPs voted for one. Tony Lloyd implied last night that it would be best for Labour to wait until an article 50 extension had been secured, and 31 October had passed without a no-deal Brexit, before allowing an election. An alternative option might be to hold an election before 31 October, knowing that if Labour won, Corbyn could then request an article 50 extension (or, in extremis, revoke article 50 - although he has never said he would do that). But yesterday there were suggestions that Johnson could agree to an election on 14 October, and then change the date once parliaments was dissolved to ensure it happened after a no-deal on 31 October."
Sounds pretty sensible, actually...
The whistle blows. And over the top they go.....
It seems terribly unfair to you but that's only because you don't understand what's happening.
And your answer to the Extinction Rebellion and LHR question?
FWIW I think there will be a great deal of tactical voting by remainers if there is an early election - this will keep seats like Battersea, where the Lib Dems have never been active and could not hope to win, in the Labour column.
:
'Free Britain from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, and if desired, relinquish membership of the European Court of Human Rights
Full control of immigration and asylum policies, and border control
Control of Britain's 200 mile maritime exclusive economic zone, and no constraints on its fishing fleet
Retake seat on the World Trade Organisation and resume right to sign trade agreements with other entities or supra-national bodies
No 'divorce' payment to the EU or contribution to the EU budget. UK must be paid share of financial assets
Brexit must be done and dusted before the end of 2019.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40042669
Not from Johnson point of view,.
Members of Parliament are not elected as delegates; they are representatives, elected to use their best judgement as the situation develops, and they are often in possession of information not available to the general public, and are supposed. at least, to have given considerable thought to what they are doing.
I know that's very idealistic, but.....
Whereas Boris's shit can come back to haunt him.
But we all know the first rule of Fight Club.
https://unherd.com/2019/08/dominic-cummings-is-no-chicken/
For a start, the EU requires the acquiescence of all its members to any renegotiated position, so although it's entirely possible they can be somewhat disingenuous in negotiation, there are significant constraints on that.
Set against that, we have a reasonable amount of evidence that Boris's renegotiation plan is a sham with no real purpose beyond establishing a position for internal UK politics.
One can be sceptical of both, while strongly inclined to believe one more than the other.
For the SNP this will be yet another example of the law of unintended consequences around Brexit, such as the loss of all those seats in 2017.