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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I can see a way through the current impasse.

    Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.

    :smile:

    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
    Do stop this constant thought policing.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I can see a way through the current impasse.

    Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.

    :smile:

    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
    Do stop this constant thought policing.
    Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post

    Jo Cox comes to mind
    Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".

    It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981



    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    It appears not.
    It was Johnson himself who introduced the idea of him dying in a ditch. Death may be a taboo subject in pre-school clubs for 4 year olds, but the vast majority of the readership here is probably old enough to confront the subject.

    My view is that we revoke parts of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and string him up for treason. Cue cries of "He said Jehovah! He said Jehovah!"
  • I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    HYUFD said:

    QT audience clapss Richard Tice calling Emily Thornberry a liar after she previously said she would respect the Leave vote

    She is an insufferable woman. Pompous islington pretendy Marxist dinner set
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Why is everyone assuming Boris can refuse to " sign " the letter ? The text of the letter is in the Bill. The Bill creates a legal duty on the office of PM to send it. Why won't the Civil Service just send the letter on autopilot as part of compliance ? What do you think would happen if a Council Leader instructed a Council Chief Exec not to fulfill a statutory duty ?

    What happens if the Head of the Civil Service sends the letter and Boris sends a simultaneous one saying he opposes it entirely and will do what he can to be a wrecker in the EU?

    Would genuinely like to hear the lawyers of PB tell us.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    There have been opportunities for both sides to compromise.

    Leave and Remain have both preferred to go for broke in an election. So be it.

    I personally would have compromised. I have little sympathy with any side & will almost certainly decline to vote at the general election.

    However, I think there should be an election pretty much immediately. and have zero sympathy with those thwarting it.

    Let's get the lottery over with now and see whether it is Leave or Remain who have won the jackpot.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Please would people not mention death in future because I had a cat that died once.

    For the same reason, references to cats are also deprecated.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Ishmael_Z said:



    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    It appears not.
    It was Johnson himself who introduced the idea of him dying in a ditch. Death may be a taboo subject in pre-school clubs for 4 year olds, but the vast majority of the readership here is probably old enough to confront the subject.

    My view is that we revoke parts of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and string him up for treason. Cue cries of "He said Jehovah! He said Jehovah!"
    Regrettably whilst we are in the EU and signatories to the EHRC that wont be possible. The death penalty cannot be restored even in wartime without exiting those esteemed organizations
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited September 2019

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role are probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and even those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    Layla Moran says she doesn't even want an election on QT.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited September 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I can see a way through the current impasse.

    Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.

    :smile:

    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
    Do stop this constant thought policing.
    Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post

    Jo Cox comes to mind

    Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".

    It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.

    I think you suggesting he goes and does it is unnecessary.

    But I know you would not mean it but at present we are struggling with serious family health issues and maybe I am a bit touchy !!!!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    I had a Peking duck pizza once. Surprisingly OK....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    Yes, I'm wondering whether Johnson's master strategy is to force Corbyn into Downing Street for a few days before he's inevitably defeated in a vote of confidence. That may make him look ridiculous just before an election.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019
    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I can see a way through the current impasse.

    Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.

    :smile:

    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
    Do stop this constant thought policing.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I can see a way through the current impasse.

    Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.

    :smile:

    Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.

    We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
    Do stop this constant thought policing.
    Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post

    Jo Cox comes to mind
    Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".

    It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
    I think you suggesting he goes and does it is unnecessary.

    But I know you would not mean it but at present we are struhgling with serious family health ssues and maybe I am a bit touchy !!!!
    Sorry to hear that Big_G - hope things improve for your family soon.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
    Only if the VONC is successful
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Corbyn gets called. That he can't pass anything is neither here nor there. He can sign the letter which is ostensibly what much of the "remain alliance" wants him to do.
  • Listening on radio rather than watching on TV to QT, so not sure if Tice has spoken much but if he has he doesn't seem to be going against the Tories?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Artist said:

    Layla Moran says she doesn't even want an election on QT.

    To be fair, if the current rate of defections keeps up, in six months all MPs will be LD, and no election needed :)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    For context this is true Tory blue old Warwickshire

    https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019
    Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
    Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Peston on ITV news says senior Tories have said Boris will refuse to agree to extend Article 50 under any circumstances whatsoever even if the extension bill passes and will challenge the Commons to impeach him first

    That would be excellent. The ONLY reason Labour are refusing a pre-Oct 31 election is to make Boris break his word and dent his popularity with BXP supporters.

    But two can play at that game. He should expose the opposition strategy for the craven gimmick it is, and tell them to go **** themselves if they think he's going to request an extension. And then let the chips fall where they may.
    I suspect Boris would have difficulty running an electoral campaign from a prison cell.
    Not necessarily, Boris would become a martyr to the Leave cause, a symbolic resistance fighter, a Nelson Mandela for Brexit

    Boris could be the first UK party leader to lead his party to general election victory from prison (even if he cannot return to Parliament himself)
    Boris, a freedom fighter like Mandela? Hmmm?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019

    For context this is true Tory blue old Warwickshire

    https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21

    On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
    Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
    That isn’t true I don’t think. We discussed this earlier and it was established that although the LOTO moving the VONC motion is the only one that takes precedence over other business, the government can still table one themselves.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
    Only if the VONC is successful
    Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019
    CatMan said:

    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20

    Corbyn is so useless he cannot even lead the Tories even if Boris extends again
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
    Only if the VONC is successful
    Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
    How does the VONC get called?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
    Only if the VONC is successful
    Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
    How does the VONC get called?
    On the order paper in the house
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
    Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
    That isn’t true I don’t think. We discussed this earlier and it was established that although the LOTO moving the VONC motion is the only one that takes precedence over other business, the government can still table one themselves.
    But it doesn't get priority over other business and the business for next week has already been set..

    Now were Parliament not being prorogued they could add it to the business for week beginning September 16th..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    CatMan said:

    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20

    It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20

    Corbyn is so useless he cannot even lead the Tories even if Boris extends
    I'm surprised by this as am inclined to lend the tories my vote as they are most likely of brexit(ish) parties to get in plus at least they seem to be genuinely trying to leave now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
  • eek said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.

    He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role are probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and even those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
    The only possible way out for him that I can see is to try and embarrass Mr. Corbyn by refusing to enact the bills purpose and challenging him to form an alternative government. This would significantly lower his prestige if he failed to do so. Given there is unlikely to be any real LD-CON voter shift under any circumstances the subsequent electoral weakness of Labour could only benefit him in the subsequent election.

  • GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    File under: No s##t Sherlock
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    For context this is true Tory blue old Warwickshire

    https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21

    On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
    Most of the whats app messages I have had this week have been brutal for Labour and Corbyn.
  • kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20

    It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
    Suspect their own internal polling indicates a collapse in their support, hence running scared of a GE
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience

    ooh ooh - ask her about Union flags and white vans
  • AndyJS said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    Yes, I'm wondering whether Johnson's master strategy is to force Corbyn into Downing Street for a few days before he's inevitably defeated in a vote of confidence. That may make him look ridiculous just before an election.

    He is the alternative PM. A weakening of Labour to the LDs would strengthen the Conservative electoral chances.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully.
    VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
    Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).

    That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.

    *by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    File under: No s##t Sherlock
    Well exactly - and that's what a lot of the messages I have been getting have been saying.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Previous Penrith result :

    May 2019 result Ind 46%, Con 37%, Lab 17%

    For context this is true Tory blue old Warwickshire

    https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21

    The entire ward is within the Coventry city boundary, though it is solidly middle class suburbia.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Foxy said:

    Artist said:

    Layla Moran says she doesn't even want an election on QT.

    To be fair, if the current rate of defections keeps up, in six months all MPs will be LD, and no election needed :)
    That long?
  • Gabs2 said:

    Why is everyone assuming Boris can refuse to " sign " the letter ? The text of the letter is in the Bill. The Bill creates a legal duty on the office of PM to send it. Why won't the Civil Service just send the letter on autopilot as part of compliance ? What do you think would happen if a Council Leader instructed a Council Chief Exec not to fulfill a statutory duty ?

    What happens if the Head of the Civil Service sends the letter and Boris sends a simultaneous one saying he opposes it entirely and will do what he can to be a wrecker in the EU?

    Would genuinely like to hear the lawyers of PB tell us.
    And what are a citizen's treaty rights worth ? If we leave the EU on 31/10 on a No Deal basis because a the PM refused to fulfill a statutory duty what will the courts award me in compensation ? Multiplied by 10s of Millions of PPI style claims. What about those who experience No Deal costs and injury ? What about non UK citizens ?

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The problem with the Monday vote is there’s no date on it .

    The government is just doing this to put pressure on the opposition . And any amendment even if it’s allowed isn’t legally enforceable .

    Why on earth would the opposition vote to allow the serial liar a get out of jail card .
  • Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience

    ooh ooh - ask her about Union flags and white vans
    Easily my least favourite politician. She is everything a Labour MP should not be.

  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited September 2019
    Noo said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully.
    VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
    Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).

    That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.

    *by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
    Bonus move: Corbyn sends some of the shadow cabinet into the unity government and stays out of it himself. Risky, because people might get used to the idea of Labour being in government without Corbyn, but could look really "presidential" (in the European, not American sense). I.e. doing what Cameron should have done in 2016.
    Unlikely to happen, I know, but could be an incredible use of the soft pedal.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know it's already been said but I think it's nice to see it in a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20

    It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
    False poll - doesn’t say why would we be in after 31/10 - Boris backtracking or Corbyn and the remoaners pissing £3Bn away.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    Yes, no doubt about what Labour internal polling is showing at the moment
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Tory gain from Ind in Cumbria. No LD candidate.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    edited September 2019
    I really hope labour and chums cling to the comfort of those polls. It’ll make the backlash on them more enjoyable when the votes are cast. They all seem to have missed the point that during prorogation, Boris gets the bully pulpit.

    That said, ok a personal note, I’m glad I got some cash on a Corbyn majority last week, and I still think there’s some decent odds that’ll come in more over the next few weeks.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
  • Noo said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully.
    VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
    Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).

    That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.

    *by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
    All things are of course possible in these days but I simply do not believe Mr. Corbyn would allow someone else other than the official leader of the opposition to become temporary PM.

    I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t think that is on the board.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
    Agreed. The public is practical in that sense.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    For context this is true Tory blue old Warwickshire

    https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21

    On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
    Most of the whats app messages I have had this week have been brutal for Labour and Corbyn.
    Did you get any replies?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.

    Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.

    Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
  • HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    Yes, no doubt about what Labour internal polling is showing at the moment
    Oh come. Corbyn voted for an election in 2017 when the polling was worse than it is now. You're not fooling anyone.
  • Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    Vox pop on BBC told its own story. Corbyn was flagged up as the issue for both a Labour remain voter and a Tory looking to switch.

    They would be doing better with literally any idiot* as leader.




    *not Richard Burgon, obviously
  • Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully.
    VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
    Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).

    That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.

    *by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
    All things are of course possible in these days but I simply do not believe Mr. Corbyn would allow someone else other than the official leader of the opposition to become temporary PM.

    I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t think that is on the board.

    If I were a Corbyn loyalist (and the idea would HAVE to come from a loyalist), I'd be begging him to take this course of action.
    You're right about it being very unlikely to happen, though. I wouldn't waste my money right now on JC being the next PM.
    Labour wins elections on quick footwork, Tories win on punching power. The Tories are out of sorts, but they might just be able to keep the press on side enough for them to deliver the punches for them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    https://twitter.com/StephenMcGann/status/1169503088727773184?s=19
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    AndyJS said:

    When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.

    It's a giant game of "pass the bomb". All the Brexit/Tory switchers I know are back with Boris btw.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    AndyJS said:

    When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.

    Boris loses his title as shortest serving PM to Corbyn. Lol. Sweeeeeet
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
    But what is the point of this delay?

    There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).

    We might as well get the election over with.

    I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.

    He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.

    But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    On another note, has a major national newspaper started following Corbyn around in a chicken suit yet? It’s surely a great british tradition (which shifts no votes) that has to be preserved.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.

    Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.

    I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully.
    VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
    Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).

    That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.

    *by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
    Bonus move: Corbyn sends some of the shadow cabinet into the unity government and stays out of it himself. Risky, because people might get used to the idea of Labour being in government without Corbyn, but could look really "presidential" (in the European, not American sense). I.e. doing what Cameron should have done in 2016.
    Unlikely to happen, I know, but could be an incredible use of the soft pedal.
    “Courageous” is the word methinks ;)

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Given how certain Tories moaned when May was willing to attempt to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him somehow, I am curious if those same Tories would think allowing Corbyn to be PM, however briefly, to secure an extension then election, would be a good idea, as one theory now has it as Boris's plan.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
    I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    Oh deat Lady Muck Thornberry having a 'mare on QT. :d
  • Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    https://twitter.com/StephenMcGann/status/1169503088727773184?s=19
    As a kid that guy hung out with some very strange kids.

    I didn't do anything that risked death.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
    But what is the point of this delay?

    There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).

    We might as well get the election over with.

    I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.

    He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.

    But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
    The point of the delay is to force Boris to not exit by October 31st for political reasons.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jezza can’t win now , in a month or in 6 months - he’s a loser.

    He doesn’t want an election ever as he will get ditched by Labour after he loses again.
  • Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
    I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
    Yes but they are, like me, one nation conservatives and will support the party but not no deal
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
    But what is the point of this delay?

    There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).

    We might as well get the election over with.

    I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.

    He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.

    But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
    Corbyn is not the man he was 4 years ago, for better and for worse. Even if we think he is still terrible, he is definitely wilier, more flexible, more cynical.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.

    Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.

    Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
    Rory was not the candidate. It is a different election with a set of alternative issues.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Gabs2 said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?

    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.

    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
    But what is the point of this delay?

    There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).

    We might as well get the election over with.

    I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.

    He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.

    But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
    The point of the delay is to force Boris to not exit by October 31st for political reasons.
    I understand, but I honestly can't see it damaging him.
  • Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
    I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
    Yes but they are, like me, one nation conservatives and will support the party but not no deal
    Hypothetically if we leave no deal - and it proves more to be like my hopes than your worries and isn't a problem - and the country looks to move on then could you look to rejoin the Conservatives?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ab195 said:

    On another note, has a major national newspaper started following Corbyn around in a chicken suit yet? It’s surely a great british tradition (which shifts no votes) that has to be preserved.

    I hope not. The whole thing is degrading and really rather mean-spirited.
    It's time we stopped being so flippant about them and started to try to treat our livestock with a little more dignity instead of comparing them to politicians.
  • If the pattern is repeated, delay will hurt both main parties equally, and the Lib Dems and Brexit Party will benefit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
    Doesn't that somewhat depend on what those policies might be? I am resigned to Boris winning a 5 year term.
    The only comfort I take is that the breakdown of the coalition of low tax, Atlanticist, Singapore on Thames bunch, and the high spend, nativist, anti-foreigner nationalist bunch will be brutal.
    Moreover, it will take place in government, probably with less than 40% support to begin with.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    11.5% swing from Labour to Conservative
    Wonder why Labour are running away from an election as fast as they can.

    Despite calling for one again and again and again.
    https://twitter.com/StephenMcGann/status/1169503088727773184?s=19
    As a kid that guy hung out with some very strange kids.

    I didn't do anything that risked death.
    You should have got out more, I certainly did!

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Scott_P said:
    As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
    My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.

    Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.

    Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
    Rory was not the candidate. It is a different election with a set of alternative issues.
    I wish it were otherwise, but the candidate really matters that much in a General Election.

    A by-election is different. That is why the Tiggers would have been well advised to resign & fight by-elections.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?

    It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
    OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
    It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
    Just the Tory and Labour ones, I think. But they are damaged goods in any case. Totally untrustworthy.
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