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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408


    When does the prorogation kick in?

    At a time of Boris's choosing between Monday and Thursday I believe
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    Whats the point

    Boris will just ignore it

    Boris is a very very loose cannon and those trying to bind him are dealing with someone the like of which we have not seen - and it does appear the more he challenges this parliament the more popular he gets

    If you think of that, the public are furious with all mps at present and continuing playing games rather tban facing the public in a GE is not going to end well
    This isn't 'playing games'. I am a basically healthy 56 year old, but I have an irregular heartbeat, and have to take beta blockers every day to prevent heart problems. No deal - and the possibility that I won't be supplied with the medicine I need terrifies me. I'm really grateful that finally parliamentarians are taking action to prevent no deal in the face of this appalling and irresponsible government.
    I too depend on beta blockers and want a deal.

    The point is the rebel alliance are a mixture of dealers, those wanting a referendum and those wanting to block brexit.

    The problem is they have collectively stopped all discussions with the EU and actually provoked the reaction we now see and made matters worse, much worse
    You're deranged.
    I wish I was, it would make coping with all this mess a lot simpler.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    My point about London is that it is too expensive to deliver a “traditional middle class” lifestyle to all but global kleptocrats and those born into it.

    It’s no good saying, “well move to Hull”, because London is precisely where those upwardly mobile jobs are - in finance; tech; and law.

    At 40, I got in just before the ladder was pulled away...

    It depends what you're looking for.

    There's not much opportunity to be a 'mover and shaker' in Hull but its a lot easier to get the 'traditional middle class' lifestyle.

    I can also point out those people who voted Conservative in 2015 and Remain in 2016 were supporting the system which makes it so difficult for young graduates and the aspirational in London.
    I have a friend who was a lawyer in London and now works as a lawyer in New York, that is what London is competing with jobs wise and is why it is so expensive to live there (certainly in central London).

    However if you want to be a little less ambitious and are happy being a solicitor in Hull I suspect you could buy a nice detached house in the city or in rural Yorkshire by your mid 40s
    Not every lawyer in London is some international high-flyer, many will be involved in housing transactions, will writing, divorce cases and such like just as they are elsewhere.

    And when you say 'mid 40s' do you mean get a mortgage by mid 40s or own outright by mid 40s ?
    Certainly get a mortgage by mid 40s at least.

    Plus most solicitors doing day to day conveyancing, crime, probate, divorce etc tend to be based in Outer London or the East End where it is cheaper to live than central London anyway
  • CatMan said:


    Let the country decide in a GE

    But thanks to our moronic voting system, Johnson could win a majority on 35% (or maybe even less), and then say "See, the public want no deal!", ignoring the majority who don't (even taking into account Brexit Party voters).
    That is not how GE works.
    Why not? @Catman is right... it's a possibility.
    If it happens it is the will of the people under our electoral system

    You cannot gerrymander GE to suit your political view

    If Corbyn won he becomes PM and so be it
    If that happens it will be the will of just 35% of the voters, so maybe 25% of the adult population.

    Now I know that's they way the voting system works but that doesn't make it great.

    I can imaging how the hard leavers will scream blue murder if Corbyn wins a majority on 35% and opts for a BINO.
    But I would accept the decision even though I do not like it
    Of course, so would I, we have no choice. But such an outcome (either way) is going to do nothing to bring the nation together.
    I agree that is some way off but the present bankrupt HOC has be swept away now
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697

    GIN1138 said:

    I love the precedents that Boris and the Brexiteers are setting for Corbyn and McDonell and their ilk if they get in to government.

    Want to ignore a law the against the mass seizure of assets?

    Ignore the law and use the Civil Contingencies Act instead.

    Well if we have a general election on 14th/15th October there would be no need for any of this bullshit and we'd have a chance of sorting this out properly.
    Unlikely, we could have another hung Parliament, and what happens if a majority of the votes are for No Deal parties but the anti No Deal Parties win a majority of the seats, or the opposite could happen.

    It would be a bloody mess.
    We *COULD* have another hung parliament or we *COULD* see a majority government returned. Either way its difficult to see how it could be any worase than now.

    It's already IS a bloody mess. ;)
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    edited September 2019
    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, I'm rapidly becoming part of team Bozza. Didn't think it would happen but the opposition are so awful it's made this deal supporter into a no deal voter.

    Plenty of Leavers have realised sustained No Deal means we rejoin the EU.

    Didn't have you down as a Rejoiner.
    I don't think many remainers agree with you that sustained no deal means we rejoin the EU, or they'd not fear it so much (yes, part of it is fear of the consequences of no deal on the country, but being realistic I don't think it unfair to suggest most of those who don't want Brexit at all, and certainly not no deal, fear any exit means we won't come back in).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Does anyone know what's planned for the HoC for tomorrow?

    Benn Bill passed? Another FTPA election vote?

    When does the prorogation kick in?

    9th to 12th.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Scott_P said:
    So finally they have spoken to Baldrick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited September 2019

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    Bit of a embarrassment in swallowing something that was rejected supposedly on principle awhile back, but frankly with all the gameplaying it is not as though more embarrassing turnarounds have not been around on many sides already.

    In any case I've learned not to get my hopes up when it comes to a deal, any deal. My gut feeling is I don't think that enough people genuinely want one enough, not on our side, not on the EU side, no matter how they might say otherwise.

    On the Boris side Farage has made it clear the WA in any form is unacceptable. If any WA is passed, the Tory rating will therefore take a big hit. WIth an election imminent he cannot risk that.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    It would be great to see the DUP screwed .

    Serves them right. Horrible bunch of bigots .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    CatMan said:


    Let the country decide in a GE

    But thanks to our moronic voting system, Johnson could win a majority on 35% (or maybe even less), and then say "See, the public want no deal!", ignoring the majority who don't (even taking into account Brexit Party voters).
    That is not how GE works.
    Why not? @Catman is right... it's a possibility.
    If it happens it is the will of the people under our electoral system

    You cannot gerrymander GE to suit your political view

    If Corbyn won he becomes PM and so be it
    If that happens it will be the will of just 35% of the voters, so maybe 25% of the adult population.

    Now I know that's they way the voting system works but that doesn't make it great.

    I can imaging how the hard leavers will scream blue murder if Corbyn wins a majority on 35% and opts for a BINO.
    But I would accept the decision even though I do not like it
    Of course, so would I, we have no choice. But such an outcome (either way) is going to do nothing to bring the nation together.
    I agree that is some way off but the present bankrupt HOC has be swept away now
    Most of its existing members will be returned. The hope is only that the numbers will change sufficiently to make a resolution simpler, and even that is not guaranteed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022
    edited September 2019
    @TheScreamingEagles

    VM for you..
  • kle4 said:

    CatMan said:


    Let the country decide in a GE

    But thanks to our moronic voting system, Johnson could win a majority on 35% (or maybe even less), and then say "See, the public want no deal!", ignoring the majority who don't (even taking into account Brexit Party voters).
    That is not how GE works.
    Why not? @Catman is right... it's a possibility.
    If it happens it is the will of the people under our electoral system

    You cannot gerrymander GE to suit your political view

    If Corbyn won he becomes PM and so be it
    If that happens it will be the will of just 35% of the voters, so maybe 25% of the adult population.

    Now I know that's they way the voting system works but that doesn't make it great.

    I can imaging how the hard leavers will scream blue murder if Corbyn wins a majority on 35% and opts for a BINO.
    But I would accept the decision even though I do not like it
    Of course, so would I, we have no choice. But such an outcome (either way) is going to do nothing to bring the nation together.
    I agree that is some way off but the present bankrupt HOC has be swept away now
    Most of its existing members will be returned. The hope is only that the numbers will change sufficiently to make a resolution simpler, and even that is not guaranteed.
    I accept that but we cannot go in with this present HOC
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:


    Let the country decide in a GE

    But thanks to our moronic voting system, Johnson could win a majority on 35% (or maybe even less), and then say "See, the public want no deal!", ignoring the majority who don't (even taking into account Brexit Party voters).
    That is not how GE works.
    Why not? @Catman is right... it's a possibility.
    If it happens it is the will of the people under our electoral system

    You cannot gerrymander GE to suit your political view

    If Corbyn won he becomes PM and so be it
    If that happens it will be the will of just 35% of the voters, so maybe 25% of the adult population.

    Now I know that's they way the voting system works but that doesn't make it great.

    I can imaging how the hard leavers will scream blue murder if Corbyn wins a majority on 35% and opts for a BINO.
    But I would accept the decision even though I do not like it
    Of course, so would I, we have no choice. But such an outcome (either way) is going to do nothing to bring the nation together.
    I agree that is some way off but the present bankrupt HOC has be swept away now
    Most of its existing members will be returned. The hope is only that the numbers will change sufficiently to make a resolution simpler, and even that is not guaranteed.
    I accept that but we cannot go in with this present HOC
    Yes, but glorious visions of it being 'swept away' suggest something a bit more complete than what we will get, I'd advise tempering expectations!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    edited September 2019
    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Well Bozo doesn't rely on the DUP for his majority any more. He is now free to throw them overboard.

    Edit: Beaten to it by Surby!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    The commons rejected that three times.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    RobD said:

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    The commons rejected that three times.
    If we're not resurrecting options the Commons has rejected we're at a very short list.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited September 2019
    RobD said:

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    The commons rejected that three times.
    I thought the deal the HoC rejected 3 times was the one that had the whole of the UK in the CU backstop (a great deal for the UK incidentally!)

    AFAIAA they have never voted on an NI-only backstop.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    RobD said:

    One of the advantages of Johnson is that his government has a majority of -43. So it does not need the DUP any more.
    Throw them under the bus and resurrect the original WA which had a "backstop" only for NI. It would be popular in NI [ except the DUP ] and may even pass in the HoC.

    The commons rejected that three times.
    No, it did not as it was never put to the HoC. This was the December 2018 draft which was vetoed by Arlene Foster following a telephone conversation when May was still in Brussels.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Well if it is legal then that removes one objection, although it'll be settled in Court no doubt.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    Scott_P said:
    That's the same poll that gave Con a 10% lead over Lab? ;)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited September 2019
    tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    No. After 10.30 it's macchiato. You know this. Indeed I don't think cappuccino can be drunk after 10, unless you have a massive hangover and only rise at noon.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    you could just drink an expresso...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited September 2019
    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

  • French official on the UK's anti-no-deal politicians:

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1170675098967322624
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    They would send the the letter from Parliament saying they want to extend and a letter from HMG saying they want to leave with No Deal.

    Given the EU deals with HMG rather than Parliament I wonder which letter carries the most weight?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    So the Cummings/Johnson master plan is to send a 2nd letter to the EU saying "Not really"?

    Really? Is that it?

    Have they thought of crossing their fingers behind their backs too?
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    If we had PR the GE would be a foregone conclusion, Jo Swinson would have the balance of power which would mean no Brexit and no Corbyn

    I must say, my dear old HY, I really do like the sound of that. Your comments are getting more and more reasonable, indeed encouraging, by the day!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    Thank goodness the DUP are reknowned for their willingness to climb down from a position and not be touchy about perceived slights.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Byronic said:

    tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    No. After 10.30 it's macchiato. You know this. Indeed I don't think cappuccino can be drunk after 10, unless you have a massive hangover and only rise at noon.
    The Macchiato is a safe option after 10.00- no quizzical looks, or smirks....but you are right, after over indulging the night before, a cappuco still hits the mark after a lie in....

    And Italy is an hour ahead.....
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Byronic said:

    tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    No. After 10.30 it's macchiato. You know this. Indeed I don't think cappuccino can be drunk after 10, unless you have a massive hangover and only rise at noon.
    Or, unless you get it free in Waitrose, then anytime.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    They would send the the letter from Parliament saying they want to extend and a letter from HMG saying they want to leave with No Deal.

    Given the EU deals with HMG rather than Parliament I wonder which letter carries the most weight?
    No the extension letter goes from the PM and it seems a bit silly to broadcast you’re going to do this 6 weeks in advance .

    The EU hate Bozo and know giving the extension ruins his plans . In any case he will lose a VONC after the EU has granted the extension .
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Does anyone know what's planned for the HoC for tomorrow?

    Benn Bill passed? Another FTPA election vote?

    When does the prorogation kick in?

    Good questions.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    Rather dependent on the current government continuing. No Tories, no chaos...
  • tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    BST or GMT ? crucial.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    They would send the the letter from Parliament saying they want to extend and a letter from HMG saying they want to leave with No Deal.

    Given the EU deals with HMG rather than Parliament I wonder which letter carries the most weight?
    I don't see what difference it makes to the EU - if the request from Parliament is legal, then the EU may as well give us an extension, knowing that the arguments about no deal and extensions are a matter for us and our courts at that point.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we had PR the GE would be a foregone conclusion, Jo Swinson would have the balance of power which would mean no Brexit and no Corbyn

    I must say, my dear old HY, I really do like the sound of that. Your comments are getting more and more reasonable, indeed encouraging, by the day!
    Albeit a small chance it could be Farage rather than Swinson with the balance of power under PR if Leavers turned out in force
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233

    Scott_P said:
    So the Cummings/Johnson master plan is to send a 2nd letter to the EU saying "Not really"?

    Really?
    I am reminded of Tony Banks crossing his fingers as he took the oath. Some politicians are not just worthy of the job.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    tyson said:

    Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Obviously of crucial importance, but I think of a more pressing concern at this moment in time is whether pineapple is better aligned to a deep pan or thin pizza base, and then whether processed ham should be included.

    I think another thread though has to consider if a cappucinuo (full fat frothed milk) can be drunk after 10 30 am. We know after 11.am is a no go- but is there a window between 10.30-11.00 when it can still be drunk?
    BST or GMT ? crucial.
    Excellent point...and a valid reason why we need to go for a full throttle no deal Brexit in case those pesky Euros want to impose their anti-social time zones on us in the future
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    You heard it here first: remaining in the "UK Single Market" and the "EU zone" is a path to prosperity.
    It's such a good idea, I think we should have a referendum on the rest of the UK somehow benefitting from this amazing opportunity. As a sweetener, we could be offered a way of sending elected representatives to the "EU zone" parliament, and our head of government to council meetings. That would ensure we get to shape the rules of this "EU zone".
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    edited September 2019
    nico67 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    They would send the the letter from Parliament saying they want to extend and a letter from HMG saying they want to leave with No Deal.

    Given the EU deals with HMG rather than Parliament I wonder which letter carries the most weight?
    No the extension letter goes from the PM and it seems a bit silly to broadcast you’re going to do this 6 weeks in advance .

    You'd better hope so because if it turns out this law isn't as water tight as Remainers think it is and we No Deal on 31/10/19 the Opposiiton will be wishing they'd agreed to an election after all.

    Oh and keep in mind silly bloody Letwin has devised this legal ruse and we all know everything he's ever touched for 30 years has turned to ashes.... ;)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    So the Cummings/Johnson master plan is to send a 2nd letter to the EU saying "Not really"?

    Really?
    I am reminded of Tony Banks crossing his fingers as he took the oath. Some politicians are not just worthy of the job.
    Indeed - the crossed-fingers get out occurred to me as I posted, hence my edit.

    Since Cummings/Johnson seem to be operating with all the strategy of 6 year olds they have probably already decided to adopt that approach too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Scott_P said:
    Still 39% back go ahead with Brexit on October 31st even with No Deal to 27% who back cancelling Brexit and Remaining in the EU and just 17% who support delaying Brexit until we can negotiate a deal that can pass the House of Commons

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-boris-johnson-is-unable-to-make-changes-to-the-withdrawal-agreement-that-enables-it-to-pass-the-house-of-commons-before-october-31-what-should-he-do/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    The only coffee that should be drunk is an espresso. Everything else is sacrilege.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Noo said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    You heard it here first: remaining in the "UK Single Market" and the "EU zone" is a path to prosperity.
    It's such a good idea, I think we should have a referendum on the rest of the UK somehow benefitting from this amazing opportunity. As a sweetener, we could be offered a way of sending elected representatives to the "EU zone" parliament, and our head of government to council meetings. That would ensure we get to shape the rules of this "EU zone".
    Lovely post...double toes up....

  • kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    The only coffee that should be drunk is an espresso. Everything else is sacrilege.

    made with sparkling water, of course.
  • Good news everybody, a thread about AV should be going up in the next few days.

    Adult Videos???
    :innocent:
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Noo said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    You heard it here first: remaining in the "UK Single Market" and the "EU zone" is a path to prosperity.
    It's such a good idea, I think we should have a referendum on the rest of the UK somehow benefitting from this amazing opportunity. As a sweetener, we could be offered a way of sending elected representatives to the "EU zone" parliament, and our head of government to council meetings. That would ensure we get to shape the rules of this "EU zone".
    Droll.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    As many have said. However, the crucial questions are whether he can get anything through in any case, and whether he would want to when the immediate impact would be a hit to his poll rating right before an election he can no longer pretend people don't want when all parties say they want one.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    Lmao ! Utterly desperate from the DT .

    The bullet proof plan allegedly to sink the anti no deal bill is some unhinged letter accompanying the extension request telling the EU the UK is going to cause havoc .

    They would send the the letter from Parliament saying they want to extend and a letter from HMG saying they want to leave with No Deal.

    Given the EU deals with HMG rather than Parliament I wonder which letter carries the most weight?
    No the extension letter goes from the PM and it seems a bit silly to broadcast you’re going to do this 6 weeks in advance .

    You'd better hope so because if it turns out this law isn't as water tights as Remainers think it is and we No Deal on 31/10/19 the Opposiiton will be withing they'd agreed to an election after all.

    Oh and keep in mind silly bloody Letwin has devised this legal ruse and we all know everything he's ever touched for 30 years has turned to ashes.... ;)
    Thankfully there was lots of input from others ! If you read the Bill it looks pretty watertight . I think they can send though some additional letter , the Bill can’t stop that and anyway Bozo could lose the plot when he meets the other 27 and try and sabotage it.

    It’s anyone’s guess what’s going to happen .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    Most likely the DUP will lose their majority of seats in NI at the next general election anyway, with SF + Alliance + Lady Hermon at least matching the DUP seat total.

    That would give Boris the excuse he needs to 'reluctantly' concede the NI backstop with a figleaf commitment to a technical solution (terribly sorry Arlene my dear but you no longer represent the majority in Northern Ireland and needs must) while ensuring that GB leaves the single market and customs union once the transition period has ended
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited September 2019
    Floater said:
    Yes it is good work and I think the fact that we mercifully have so few actual terrorist attacks in the UK is testament to the brilliant job the security services do on countering them.

    I do have a small gripe with the Guardian though... a sniper rifle, a silencer and 200 rounds of ammunition does not seem to quite fit the bill of the headline's "huge arms cache".
  • I love the precedents that Boris and the Brexiteers are setting for Corbyn and McDonell and their ilk if they get in to government.

    Want to ignore a law the against the mass seizure of assets?

    Ignore the law and use the Civil Contingencies Act instead.

    I can see John McDonnell emoting now: "The level of human suffering is a real emergency. We have no choice."
    Indeed, then watch the No Dealers moan like whores.
    A Gladiator reference ;)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Well you could be right but kicking them out doesn't get the MV passed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Who's favourite to be the next minister to resign? Nicky Morgan?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    If this was Cummings strategy all along.....lose the majority, back yourself into a corner and then pull the rabbit from the hat and put a border around NI who are no longer needed because he gets Lab leave MP votes...he is a genius after all.....

    And double plus points...the ERG get dispatched from the Tory party too....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    While Cummings has said critical things of the ERG spartans in the past, surely the difference is that the spartans genuinely do represent a much more vocal section of the party membership, as well as casual support which jumped ship to BXP. Can Boris win a GE if he has culled people from both extreme wings?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    If this was Cummings strategy all along.....lose the majority, back yourself into a corner and then pull the rabbit from the hat and put a border around NI who are no longer needed because he gets Lab leave MP votes...he is a genius after all.....

    And double plus points...the ERG get dispatched from the Tory party too....
    Not enough Labour leave MP votes for that - nowhere near.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    Indeed there is very little difference in practice between a majority of -43 and a majority of -63.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Well when they have reduced them to fifth or sixth party status I’m sure they will wield significant influence
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    If the extension request bill is not watertight then the oh so smug planners of the move will have some explaining to do. They will have banked everything on this, rather than take far simpler means of stopping no deal like approving a deal, so if no deal happens regardless what a bloody waste of space they would have been.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    Operation 'screw the DUP' actually viable? We can only hope.

    In fairness the DUP have been uncharacteristically keeping their heads down for quite some time.
    Boris has lost his majority anyway, so he can "afford" to jettison the DUP.
    If this was Cummings strategy all along.....lose the majority, back yourself into a corner and then pull the rabbit from the hat and put a border around NI who are no longer needed because he gets Lab leave MP votes...he is a genius after all.....

    And double plus points...the ERG get dispatched from the Tory party too....
    Not enough Labour leave MP votes for that - nowhere near.
    Especially when some of those who backed the deal from among the now expelled will have no reason to.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    Scotland will have the same as well
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Well you could be right but kicking them out doesn't get the MV passed.
    Threatening to kick them out [and meaning it] could.

    As I keep repeating "the bastards" in 1993 literally voted in favour of Maastricht rather than vote down Major once it was a confidence vote.

    The ERG are the heirs to Major's bastards - some of them are the same people - If Boris comes back with a deal that takes us out of the EU imperfectly and makes its passing a confidence motion will Francois and co sacrifice the Tory whip rather than pass a deal?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Scott_P said:
    BuzzFeed sometimes get some great stories. This isn't one of them. Scraping the barrel.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    malcolmg said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    Scotland will have the same as well
    A narrow majority of Scots were happy with the Withdrawal Agreement in the last YouGov I saw, it was only No Deal most were opposed to
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    The reason is that they are a complete bunch of arseholes....even bigger than Mogg, Boris, Gove, Patel and Raab- and that is saying a lot.

    Even Cummings knows these extreme Tories are fucking useless....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    At some point in the next few weeks I suspect it is going to become abundantly clear that the pretence Cummings and Johnson are weaving to make it look like thay have no real plan or strategy is, in fact, not a pretence at all.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    kle4 said:

    If the extension request bill is not watertight then the oh so smug planners of the move will have some explaining to do. They will have banked everything on this, rather than take far simpler means of stopping no deal like approving a deal, so if no deal happens regardless what a bloody waste of space they would have been.

    The SC can’t quash the Bill . They won’t overturn Primary Legislation but just deal with interpretation .

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    Boggis, Bunce and Bean will get their shot in the end.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    Scotland will have the same as well
    A narrow majority of Scots were happy with the Withdrawal Agreement in the last YouGov I saw, it was only No Deal most were opposed to
    Don't talk crap
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Well you could be right but kicking them out doesn't get the MV passed.
    How many Remainer MPs will vote down MV937 The Finale, With New (Old) Ulster Only Backstop! - given that the alternative to this will be either a terrible No Deal, or years more wrangling over a 2nd and 3rd referendum, and more cripping uncertainty?

    Maybe a few hardcore Remoaners who still hope for Revoke, will vote agin, but many will gleefully seize it, with relief. It will be interesting to see the SNP position, on this.

    I predict any MP that did vote it down would face severe punishment from angry electors. The people want this done.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2019
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    The reason is that they are a complete bunch of arseholes....even bigger than Mogg, Boris, Gove, Patel and Raab- and that is saying a lot.

    Even Cummings knows these extreme Tories are fucking useless....
    Yes, they even voted against the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 unlike Boris, Raab, Mogg etc despite knowing that likely meant we would not leave the EU on 31st March.

    Cummings was the mastermind who got Leave to 52% remember, had Farage been in charge of the official Leave campaign I doubt Leave would have got much more than 45%
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    Just help me here - did I miss the point where Cummings took over as PM?

    Is Johnson still involved in any way as his junior assistant?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    While Cummings has said critical things of the ERG spartans in the past, surely the difference is that the spartans genuinely do represent a much more vocal section of the party membership, as well as casual support which jumped ship to BXP. Can Boris win a GE if he has culled people from both extreme wings?
    And made permanent enemies of the DUP too, the only other party willing to support BoZo?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    kle4 said:

    If the extension request bill is not watertight then the oh so smug planners of the move will have some explaining to do. They will have banked everything on this, rather than take far simpler means of stopping no deal like approving a deal, so if no deal happens regardless what a bloody waste of space they would have been.

    If it looks like Cummings, sorry Johnson, has found a way to wriggle out of the requirement to request an extension, he will surely be VoNC'ed soon after the 19th.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    Who is this Cummings you talk about with such absolute power? I have no recollection of such a person ever elected into a position that could wield such power.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited September 2019
    LOL.

    Looks like Boris and Dom have decided they don't want to end up tossing the salad.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    If the extension request bill is not watertight then the oh so smug planners of the move will have some explaining to do. They will have banked everything on this, rather than take far simpler means of stopping no deal like approving a deal, so if no deal happens regardless what a bloody waste of space they would have been.

    The SC can’t quash the Bill . They won’t overturn Primary Legislation but just deal with interpretation .

    Yes, but that's the point - if the bill does not actually legally enforce what the authors thought it did, then they have royally cocked up. Governments have certainly found out in the past they have not given legal authority for something they thought they had in such a manner.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    The only coffee that should be drunk is an espresso. Everything else is sacrilege.

    While falling down an internet rabbit hole, this lunchtime, I discovered that the espresso martini - now ubiquitous around the world - was invented in Fred's nightclub in Soho in the mid-80s. This is a place I frequented nightly at that time, so I might well have been there when it happened, tho unaware of the fact, as I was so banjaxed on coke.

    Can't stand espresso martinis, myself. Aussies adore them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Well you could be right but kicking them out doesn't get the MV passed.
    How many Remainer MPs will vote down MV937 The Finale, With New (Old) Ulster Only Backstop! - given that the alternative to this will be either a terrible No Deal, or years more wrangling over a 2nd and 3rd referendum, and more cripping uncertainty?

    Maybe a few hardcore Remoaners who still hope for Revoke, will vote agin, but many will gleefully seize it, with relief. It will be interesting to see the SNP position, on this.

    I predict any MP that did vote it down would face severe punishment from angry electors. The people want this done.

    Ah yes, thet would explain why the Benn bill got nowhere. Oh...
  • French official on the UK's anti-no-deal politicians:

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1170675098967322624

    I am absolutely certain I have seen that quote from either one of the MEPs or a Vice President of commission.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    While Cummings has said critical things of the ERG spartans in the past, surely the difference is that the spartans genuinely do represent a much more vocal section of the party membership, as well as casual support which jumped ship to BXP. Can Boris win a GE if he has culled people from both extreme wings?
    And made permanent enemies of the DUP too, the only other party willing to support BoZo?
    Yes, but that point is indeed irrelevant if BoJo and co are confident they will win a majority and won't need them. I just don't think he can win a majority alienating both wings of the party, even though it is still possible (albeit harder) to win having ousted those he has.

    The DUP were only ever allies of convenience.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Javid: "We have a cunning plan".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited September 2019

    kle4 said:

    If the extension request bill is not watertight then the oh so smug planners of the move will have some explaining to do. They will have banked everything on this, rather than take far simpler means of stopping no deal like approving a deal, so if no deal happens regardless what a bloody waste of space they would have been.

    If it looks like Cummings, sorry Johnson, has found a way to wriggle out of the requirement to request an extension, he will surely be VoNC'ed soon after the 19th.

    Then they better have their alternate PM lined up ready to go!
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Well you could be right but kicking them out doesn't get the MV passed.
    How many Remainer MPs will vote down MV937 The Finale, With New (Old) Ulster Only Backstop! - given that the alternative to this will be either a terrible No Deal, or years more wrangling over a 2nd and 3rd referendum, and more cripping uncertainty?

    Maybe a few hardcore Remoaners who still hope for Revoke, will vote agin, but many will gleefully seize it, with relief. It will be interesting to see the SNP position, on this.

    I predict any MP that did vote it down would face severe punishment from angry electors. The people want this done.

    No they don't. They want it done, but not in certain ways. They are contradictory in their messaging.

    As for how many Remainer MPs will vote down MV937, hundreds. Many have and will vote for a MV, but the very fact nothing has passed already is a sign they will always, always hope something else will come up, and years more wrangling and uncertainty is just seen as more time to persuade to remain after all. And as we have seen from some on here, some actively support no deal rather than a deal because they think it means we rejoin sooner.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Byronic said:

    so banjaxed on coke

    I can't believe that about you. People on coke are usually obnoxious and with an overinflated sense of their own abilities.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The gossip about a Norn Ireland only solution is intriguing. It solves lots of problems for everyone, and the DUP will moan but quietly delight in it, as it guarantees a pretty prosperous future for the province - in the UK Single Market but ALSO in the EU zone.

    In fact they'd be mad not to take it, and they should stop worrying about a Border Poll because this solution means Ulster would be so well favoured it would never seek to change its arrangements.

    I can't see JRM voting for it. Isn't this going to be seen as the evil EU trying to grab a bit of the UK?
    One of the advantages of Boris and Dom being so BDSMy to the Rebel Alliance, and kicking them out of the Tories, is that he now has the moral authority to say and do the same to the ERG. Indeed I am sure this is part of The Cunning Plan. Seriously.
    Indeed, Cummings does not take dissent well and will be ruthless to those who defy the whip, unlike May.

    There was a reason Steve Baker and Mark Francois and John Redwood were not included in the Boris Cabinet
    The reason is that they are a complete bunch of arseholes....even bigger than Mogg, Boris, Gove, Patel and Raab- and that is saying a lot.

    Even Cummings knows these extreme Tories are fucking useless....
    Yes, they even voted against the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 unlike Boris, Raab, Mogg etc despite knowing that likely meant we would not leave the EU on 31st March.

    Cummings was the mastermind who got Leave to 52% remember, had Farage been in charge of the official Leave campaign I doubt Leave would have got much more than 45%
    To be honest....if the Tories came up with a deal that pissed off the ERG and the DUP...I could live with that...

    But sadly,. that isn't going to happen, because Boris is reliant on those two blocks to stay as PM...and for Boris being PM is much more important than anything else....
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    French official on the UK's anti-no-deal politicians:

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1170675098967322624

    I am absolutely certain I have seen that quote from either one of the MEPs or a Vice President of commission.


    Actually a former conservative mp who still sits in the house I believe
  • Scott_P said:
    Very interesting. The shift is from No Deal to Delay and Don't Know rather than Remain but it backs up all the other pollsters which show as it approaches No Deal support is dropping. Unfortunately the have the Internet in the EU as well as some interns who speak English.
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