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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The curious incident of the ERG at Christmas 2017

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  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    Abandoned: how the poor lost their bank branches but the rich kept theirs
    The rich retain branches as the elderly, hard-up and less well-connected lose theirs, say Tom Calver and Kenza Bryan"

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/abandoned-how-the-poor-lost-their-bank-branches-but-the-rich-kept-theirs-25dq7gxxn
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    strange headline when they seem to be introducing a new option to make it cheaper.
    I've just signed up for the 2% commission option instead of 5%. It's quite hard to find on the Betfair site. I wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't been alerted here. Thanks to Francis U.
  • strange headline when they seem to be introducing a new option to make it cheaper.
    Certianly for me the change has been to cut the commission rate from 5% to 2%. On proper sports I understand the "bonus" items are more important.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    AndyJS said:

    Abandoned: how the poor lost their bank branches but the rich kept theirs
    The rich retain branches as the elderly, hard-up and less well-connected lose theirs, say Tom Calver and Kenza Bryan"

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/abandoned-how-the-poor-lost-their-bank-branches-but-the-rich-kept-theirs-25dq7gxxn

    Banks are for people with money? Who knew? :smiley:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952

    Its all going a bit Pete Tong for Spurs. Looks like Lloris is seriously injured to boot.

    "Spursy" is going to have to be recalibrated for once-in-a-generation crapness.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    edited October 2019

    Its all going a bit Pete Tong for Spurs. Looks like Lloris is seriously injured to boot.

    "Spursy" is going to have to be recalibrated for once-in-a-generation crapness.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    Unless he just wants it all over. Which I think may well be how he feels now.
  • strange headline when they seem to be introducing a new option to make it cheaper.
    Certianly for me the change has been to cut the commission rate from 5% to 2%. On proper sports I understand the "bonus" items are more important.
    Where is this option on the website? They sent me an email about changing things and 5 to 2pc sounds about right for me.
  • strange headline when they seem to be introducing a new option to make it cheaper.
    Certianly for me the change has been to cut the commission rate from 5% to 2%. On proper sports I understand the "bonus" items are more important.
    Where is this option on the website? They sent me an email about changing things and 5 to 2pc sounds about right for me.
    Found it on the link - thanks all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    Unless he just wants it all over. Which I think may well be how he feels now.
    Are we talking about his politics or his sex life?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

    You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

    Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.
    The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

    The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    Unless he just wants it all over. Which I think may well be how he feels now.
    I think every Labour leader feels like that.
    After the relentless , character attacks.
    I was always surprised that Neil Kinnock , lasted so long.
  • JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited October 2019
    RE: Betfair

    Any Remoaners unhappy their losses will now be going to Canada rather than the EU's Ireland????
  • RE: Betfair

    Any Remoaners unhappy their losses will now be going to Canada rather than the EU's Ireland????

    Dumbass Briskin does of course mean Commission.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    He allowed the 2017 GE despite far worse polling!
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013



    But I agree, the Leave campaign was run by people who want to deregulate the UK economy, degrade the environment, cut public spending and reduce workers' rights, using cutting immigration as their wedge issue.

    This, a million times, this.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    He allowed the 2017 GE despite far worse polling!
    Ah yes, the "lightning will strike twice" strategy......
  • Mango said:



    But I agree, the Leave campaign was run by people who want to deregulate the UK economy, degrade the environment, cut public spending and reduce workers' rights, using cutting immigration as their wedge issue.

    This, a million times, this.

    Nothing to with the EU being a farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense then?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.
    Not necessarily. An EU-state’s ambassador’s wife would still have diplomatic immunity and he state would have to waive it before an EAW could be enforced. I don’t know what France or any other EU countries’ track records are like in this regard.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Mango said:



    But I agree, the Leave campaign was run by people who want to deregulate the UK economy, degrade the environment, cut public spending and reduce workers' rights, using cutting immigration as their wedge issue.

    This, a million times, this.

    Nothing to with the EU being a farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense then?
    Retainers have carefully explained to us that maintaining a large and corrupt Parliament shuttling uselessly between Brussels and Strasbourg is what is meant by "democracy".
  • nichomar said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1180447076062117888

    Who is this Nick bloke that people keep retweeting? As far as I can see he is just some random off twitter with a few 1000 followers.
    10,300 followers you will find
    Random unknown dude without a blue tick is set to be believed on issues of law?

    In case you missed it there is legally no forthcoming election coming up. Its not due under the FTPA and an early one has been repeatedly rejected by the Commons. Had the Commons voted for an early election then there'd be no Queen's Speech.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Labour are like Spurs.
    Close to winning a GE in 2017.
    Spurs get to European cup final.
    Both go into collapse mode.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    Yorkcity said:

    Labour are like Spurs.
    Close to winning a GE in 2017.
    Spurs get to European cup final.
    Both go into collapse mode.

    Spurs fluked their way through the group stages, then got outrageously lucky against City and Ajax to qualify for the final. The stats say they have been awful since January, their last gasp cup wins were just a sticking plaster.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited October 2019
    A complete misreading of the situation I'm sure, the prosecco makers are about to put their feet down, Bayerische Motoren Werke is revving up.

    https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1180482179593363457?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    HYUFD said:
    I just don't see the UK as being the weak, powerless, helpless victim the Brexit loons believe it to be.

    As long as we remain within the EU we are.

    Yep, I just don't see it. I guess people like me and you look at the world in completely different ways. We have to work out a way to get along despite that!

    Stopping calling people you disagree with "loons" might be a good place to start
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728

    A complete misreading of the situation I'm sure, the prosecco makers are about to put their feet down.

    Bloody prosecco makers, always gassing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's fine, Corbyn will never allow a GE on his polling.....
    He allowed the 2017 GE despite far worse polling!
    He hadn't previously refused a general election at that time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    A complete misreading of the situation I'm sure, the prosecco makers are about to put their feet down, Bayerische Motoren Werke is revving up.

    https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1180482179593363457?s=20

    https://twitter.com/MinPres/status/1180470674529439745
  • AndyJS said:
    Nothing has facilitated the spread of fake news as much as twatter has.
  • Former world champion Neil Robertson had to forfeit his World Open qualifier on Friday - because he drove to the wrong Barnsley.

    The Australian, who lives in Cambridge, accidentally set his sat-nav for the village of Barnsley in Gloucestershire.

    However, the qualifiers were being held at the Barnsley Metrodome in the Yorkshire town - 170 miles away.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/snooker/49944958

    An example of the dangers of using minimal information - clearly not using postcode or county - plus failing to use any oversight of computer output.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    isam said:

    Stopping calling people you disagree with "loons" might be a good place to start

    What should you call loons who you disagree with?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    Yorkcity said:

    Labour are like Spurs.
    Close to winning a GE in 2017.
    Spurs get to European cup final.
    Both go into collapse mode.

    See what you mean - but why are people so scared of them then?

    Nobody is scared of Spurs.
  • In an echo of times past today in Tesco there were British strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, kiwiberries and apricots.

    Counties of origin included Perthshire, Staffordshire, Norfolk, Herefordshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Kent.

    At 1.30pm yellow stickers were already in widespread use.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I am starting to wonder what happens if the election is 40-25-20 with the Lib Dems ahead of Labour. Could a landslide for Bozza.

    200 Seat Con Majority? That'd get the job done! :D
    The job being turning the fragmenting UK into Alabama (but without the trade deals)?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013



    Yep, I just don't see it. I guess people like me and you look at the world in completely different ways. We have to work out a way to get along despite that!

    Not gonna happen. Bring on the civil war.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    isam said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Labour are like Spurs.
    Close to winning a GE in 2017.
    Spurs get to European cup final.
    Both go into collapse mode.

    Spurs fluked their way through the group stages, then got outrageously lucky against City and Ajax to qualify for the final. The stats say they have been awful since January, their last gasp cup wins were just a sticking plaster.
    I agree, their record since January is relegation material.
    Hard to see Poch turning it around.
    Levy needs to do something , to pay for that new ground.
  • Its all going a bit Pete Tong for Spurs. Looks like Lloris is seriously injured to boot.

    "Spursy" is going to have to be recalibrated for once-in-a-generation crapness.
    Tottenham should be viewed as a medium sized club who over performed last season rather than as a big club which is now underperforming.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013

    Mr. HYUFD, ironically, the SNP was in favour of leaving the UK and EU in 2014. Now they're aghast at leaving the EU.

    That position at least makes sense. Leaving the EU and then the UK are progressive steps towards independence. The dream of leaving the UK but remaining within the EU simply sets Scotland and its putative leaders up as a decorative toy state with zero influence whatsoever. It is a situation that anybody genuinely interested in independence would be horrified by.
    And yet the newly(ish) independent countries of Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are happy to have joined the EU, with North Macedonia and Montenegro soon to follow.

    You understand nothing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Mango said:

    Mr. HYUFD, ironically, the SNP was in favour of leaving the UK and EU in 2014. Now they're aghast at leaving the EU.

    That position at least makes sense. Leaving the EU and then the UK are progressive steps towards independence. The dream of leaving the UK but remaining within the EU simply sets Scotland and its putative leaders up as a decorative toy state with zero influence whatsoever. It is a situation that anybody genuinely interested in independence would be horrified by.
    And yet the newly(ish) independent countries of Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are happy to have joined the EU, with North Macedonia and Montenegro soon to follow.

    You understand nothing.
    Something to do with the direction the money flows, perhaps?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Er, I was responding to what I took to be a humorous post on your part with what I hoped was one in a similar spirit. I knew you were being sarcastic because everone knows that all deals conducted with the US are completely one-sided.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited October 2019
    kinabalu said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Labour are like Spurs.
    Close to winning a GE in 2017.
    Spurs get to European cup final.
    Both go into collapse mode.

    See what you mean - but why are people so scared of them then?

    Nobody is scared of Spurs.
    Any shade of Labour government scares some people.
    Was always the case , and a tactic used by their oppononents.

    As for Spurs,they would not frighten York City.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013

    Surely the answer to Mr Herdson's query as to why the Brexit dogs did not bark is a fairly simple one - they did not put the effort in to understand what Mrs May was offering.

    It is a complex subject and requires attention to detail. That seems to be their weak point.

    Partly that, and partly that the ERG wing is built on emotion rather than reason or logic. Being acceptable in 2017 doesnt make it acceptable in 2019 by logic if senior clerics have declared it heresy. And clerics like Raab & Francois saw an obvious path of self promotion by being as extreme as possible, once they have made their case, others most follow or look like weak quislings.
    I do find it hard to understand why anyone rates Raab. He seems to be utterly vacuous. I can see no redeeming qualities in him, nor any form of ability other than being able to speak complete nonsense.

    My opinion of Francois is much more straightforward - he is an idiot. Or perhaps a mouth on legs with no brain.

    TBF to the Tories and the Brexiteers, Labour has a similar problem in The Cult.

    How did these people get elected? Obviously we, the electorate, have only ourselves to blame. We put those idiots in there, but, in mitigation, maybe these idiots where the only ones prepared to stand.
    Don't blame the voters - they are stuck with the donkey with a rosette that is offered to them. Blame the local party members; they are the ones with the time and inclination to assess the suitability of potential candidates.
    Blame FPTP. It destroys everything in the end.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    Mr. HYUFD, ironically, the SNP was in favour of leaving the UK and EU in 2014. Now they're aghast at leaving the EU.

    That position at least makes sense. Leaving the EU and then the UK are progressive steps towards independence. The dream of leaving the UK but remaining within the EU simply sets Scotland and its putative leaders up as a decorative toy state with zero influence whatsoever. It is a situation that anybody genuinely interested in independence would be horrified by.
    And yet the newly(ish) independent countries of Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are happy to have joined the EU, with North Macedonia and Montenegro soon to follow.

    You understand nothing.
    Something to do with the direction the money flows, perhaps?
    You understand nothing too.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Stopping calling people you disagree with "loons" might be a good place to start

    What should you call loons who you disagree with?
    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,
  • Surely the answer to Mr Herdson's query as to why the Brexit dogs did not bark is a fairly simple one - they did not put the effort in to understand what Mrs May was offering.

    It is a complex subject and requires attention to detail. That seems to be their weak point.

    Partly that, and partly that the ERG wing is built on emotion rather than reason or logic. Being acceptable in 2017 doesnt make it acceptable in 2019 by logic if senior clerics have declared it heresy. And clerics like Raab & Francois saw an obvious path of self promotion by being as extreme as possible, once they have made their case, others most follow or look like weak quislings.
    I do find it hard to understand why anyone rates Raab. He seems to be utterly vacuous. I can see no redeeming qualities in him, nor any form of ability other than being able to speak complete nonsense.

    My opinion of Francois is much more straightforward - he is an idiot. Or perhaps a mouth on legs with no brain.

    TBF to the Tories and the Brexiteers, Labour has a similar problem in The Cult.

    How did these people get elected? Obviously we, the electorate, have only ourselves to blame. We put those idiots in there, but, in mitigation, maybe these idiots where the only ones prepared to stand.
    The most shocking thing about Mark Francois is that he was a government minister throughout the Cameron Premiership.

    Perhaps the Bullingdon boys regarded him as the personification of 'Essex Man'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Er, I was responding to what I took to be a humorous post on your part with what I hoped was one in a similar spirit. I knew you were being sarcastic because everone knows that all deals conducted with the US are completely one-sided.
    Ah.

    Clearly I need to develop a sarcasm detector myself...

    I apologise. Reading it again in light of your new comment, your post was indeed a very good response.
  • Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Philip Thompson.

    I doubt the quid he would have saved will make much difference to his finances.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
    Next time I'll remember to put in an awesome pun just to show what I'm trying to achieve.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Some rambling thoughts.

    Moving forward, as opposed to treading water, requires either side to make a breakthrough.

    As I see it, Remain's best chance is with the current composition of Parliament (even though they *might* have a better composition after the next election that's uncertain) which has a pro-EU majority. If they move before the election with a referendum (it seems unlikely any alternative could pass, though this also is far from certain) that has A Deal versus Remain, that's a plebiscite they can very much win.

    After the election the Commons will probably see its deadlock end and one side have sufficient numbers to either take us out without a deal, if need be, or to revoke/have a referendum.

    If I were a pro-EU type I'd be in no rush for an election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Mango said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    Mr. HYUFD, ironically, the SNP was in favour of leaving the UK and EU in 2014. Now they're aghast at leaving the EU.

    That position at least makes sense. Leaving the EU and then the UK are progressive steps towards independence. The dream of leaving the UK but remaining within the EU simply sets Scotland and its putative leaders up as a decorative toy state with zero influence whatsoever. It is a situation that anybody genuinely interested in independence would be horrified by.
    And yet the newly(ish) independent countries of Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are happy to have joined the EU, with North Macedonia and Montenegro soon to follow.

    You understand nothing.
    Something to do with the direction the money flows, perhaps?
    You understand nothing too.
    So you are suggesting money has nothing to do with it? Perhaps we both understand nothing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    Lucky, lucky Arsenal Liverpool
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
    Next time I'll remember to put in an awesome pun just to show what I'm trying to achieve.
    That's ok, I don't expect anything awesome from you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Lady luck is having an orgy with Liverpool !

    As an Arsenal fan fighting for the scraps I really don’t mind Liverpool winning the league , you can’t help but like Klopp.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Which was obvious from the beginning. Hungary probably wants something from the EU and is playing games. Once again we fail to understand how the EU works
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
    Next time I'll remember to put in an awesome pun just to show what I'm trying to achieve.
    That's ok, I don't expect anything awesome from you.
    People often get what they don't expect.

    Just look at Jeremy Corbyn.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
    Next time I'll remember to put in an awesome pun just to show what I'm trying to achieve.
    That's ok, I don't expect anything awesome from you.
    People often get what they don't expect.

    Just look at Jeremy Corbyn.
    I'd prefer not to if that's ok with you.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    A deal is a big ask before 311019.
    However a thumping maj is nailed on imo.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    Steer clear of the opposition, the Conservatives are bound to win the next election.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I just don't see the UK as being the weak, powerless, helpless victim the Brexit loons believe it to be.

    As long as we remain within the EU we are.
    The opposite is more likely to be the truth.
    LOL. Of course it isn't. That is actually so wrong it is funny.
    Richard, can you explain your thinking as to how you think the UK (if it survives) would be stronger outside the EU? Genuine question.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    I should add that I stand wholeheartedly by my advice that betting on Liverpool winning all their games before Christmas is best avoided. Obviously today was one of the trickier home matches, and they've squeaked over this hurdle, but I still have an extremely good chance of being shown to be right. Just... not today.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited October 2019
    Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

    If some shady deal had been done it was bound to leak and then what , why would Hungary trash relations with the rest of the EU for years to come for a departing member.

    The UK had it remained could have of course wielded more power in the EU now that it has more Eurosceptic members that would have backed it including Hungary .

  • Some rambling thoughts.

    Moving forward, as opposed to treading water, requires either side to make a breakthrough.

    As I see it, Remain's best chance is with the current composition of Parliament (even though they *might* have a better composition after the next election that's uncertain) which has a pro-EU majority. If they move before the election with a referendum (it seems unlikely any alternative could pass, though this also is far from certain) that has A Deal versus Remain, that's a plebiscite they can very much win.

    After the election the Commons will probably see its deadlock end and one side have sufficient numbers to either take us out without a deal, if need be, or to revoke/have a referendum.

    If I were a pro-EU type I'd be in no rush for an election.

    Sounds about right.

    The government's best bet is probably a "Brexit is in peril. Defend it with all your might." election, and getting a big enough majority to ignore any holdouts on either side of the internal debate. (What sort of majority will they need to do that? I doubt that they could sleep totally easily unless it was 50ish +.)

    Securing Brexit, then having an election feels a lot more chancy. Some (many?) will be grateful, but the debate will just move onto the long-term relationship. So much for "Getting Brexit Done". Besides, once the spotlight moves onto the future vision, the Northern Strategy looks much harder- the Britannia Unchained lot aren't going to want the same thing as the good people of, say, Dewsbury.

    So- Remainers, and feathersoft Leavers are better off acting before any election. If only on the "do the opposite of what your opponent wants" principle. If they can put the subject to bed (e.g. Deal vs Remain referendum), so much the better. A two week post-Boris government can't do that. Can a government coalesce for long enough to make this work? I don't know.

    Still, in a few weeks time, we might find out.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Yorkcity said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    A deal is a big ask before 311019.
    However a thumping maj is nailed on imo.
    More nailed on than it was last time, I guess you mean?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, yes, but the minor detail was that as they had been repeatedly told, that was not possible.

    And to be sure it's not a minor detail.

    ydoethur said:

    I feel sure that if the French diplomat's wife were a suspect in a hit and run and had skipped the country after making promises to the contrary somebody would have posted it by now. Further evidence of the respect in which Brexiteers' favourite Anglosphere ally holds us, and the kind of classy people employed by the Trump administration...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49945461

    I don't think it would do her much good, of course, if she were French. The EAW would come into play.

    I do look forward to the day though if we get a free trade deal with the USA when we have extradition on equal terms with them too. So we just arrest Donald Trump stateside...
    Good luck with that. The whole of the NHS will have been turned into a Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken franchise before the US will allow us to extradite any of their citizens.
    Some people need to develop sarcasm detectors.
    Sarcasm doesn't really come across in written text. There is an emoji that can help you communicate that.
    There's enough earnest stupidity on here that if someone pops up with some sarcastic stupidity, it doesn't stand out as obviously sarcastic.
    Next time I'll remember to put in an awesome pun just to show what I'm trying to achieve.
    That's ok, I don't expect anything awesome from you.
    People often get what they don't expect.

    Just look at Jeremy Corbyn.
    I'd prefer not to if that's ok with you.
    Well, I thought of offering you the chance of looking at Boris Johnson, but he's worse.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    RobD said:



    So you are suggesting money has nothing to do with it? Perhaps we both understand nothing.

    "Nothing" might be overstating it, but it is not the primary motive. After all, one could just suck up to Russia or China or Saudi Arabia and reap plenty of financial inflows in the short term, but the countries of central and eastern Europe are mostly not interested in that.

    It is more about identifying with European values, and yes, the relatively successful economies and practices of the West (the rule of law and other such unfashionable ideas). I lived in a couple of the A8 countries in the pre-accession period, and this was how the debate was seen. It is a fundamental weakness of the Brits (and Brexiteers are worse, but by no means alone) that they fail to understand what a triumph the enlargement has been in at least giving these countries a fighting chance of lasting institutional strength and stability. All the more tragic in that it was a triumph for the UK, which did so much to drive the enlargement. But that fog in the Channel runs thick...

    As a further example, in my opinion Greece would have done better to exit the euro in 2012, but for people there, the euro is an identity, a sign that they have moved onwards from the failed practices of old. Not really true, of course, but the motive is undeniable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    IanB2 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    A deal is a big ask before 311019.
    However a thumping maj is nailed on imo.
    More nailed on than it was last time, I guess you mean?
    Yorkcity (for all he and I are hardly on cordial terms) is unlikely to rejoice at a Tory majority.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Raab the tough guy has told the USA what for regarding the hit and run .

    He was then patted and given a bone !
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    Some rambling thoughts.

    Moving forward, as opposed to treading water, requires either side to make a breakthrough.

    As I see it, Remain's best chance is with the current composition of Parliament (even though they *might* have a better composition after the next election that's uncertain) which has a pro-EU majority. If they move before the election with a referendum (it seems unlikely any alternative could pass, though this also is far from certain) that has A Deal versus Remain, that's a plebiscite they can very much win.

    After the election the Commons will probably see its deadlock end and one side have sufficient numbers to either take us out without a deal, if need be, or to revoke/have a referendum.

    If I were a pro-EU type I'd be in no rush for an election.

    Sounds about right.

    The government's best bet is probably a "Brexit is in peril. Defend it with all your might." election, and getting a big enough majority to ignore any holdouts on either side of the internal debate. (What sort of majority will they need to do that? I doubt that they could sleep totally easily unless it was 50ish +.)

    Securing Brexit, then having an election feels a lot more chancy. Some (many?) will be grateful, but the debate will just move onto the long-term relationship. So much for "Getting Brexit Done". Besides, once the spotlight moves onto the future vision, the Northern Strategy looks much harder- the Britannia Unchained lot aren't going to want the same thing as the good people of, say, Dewsbury.

    So- Remainers, and feathersoft Leavers are better off acting before any election. If only on the "do the opposite of what your opponent wants" principle. If they can put the subject to bed (e.g. Deal vs Remain referendum), so much the better. A two week post-Boris government can't do that. Can a government coalesce for long enough to make this work? I don't know.

    Still, in a few weeks time, we might find out.
    I can't really see the current commons voting for a referendum.

    The steam left in the current house is barely sufficient to force an extension and pack up for an election. If the opposition can't even agree on a leader to do that (though I can see the attraction in forcing Boris to), it ain't going to steer us for six months to a referendum.. nor probably find a majority for one.

    Slightly perversely, I *could* see an emergency revoke if Boris found a way to head full speed for the cliffs.

    As an aside, after all this "Get Brexit Done" nonsense, the look on leavers' faces when the debate starts about the future relationship is going to be a *picture*.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,550
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    nico67 said:

    Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

    We seem to be in the position where Johnson has staked his career on being an immovable object, but in two weeks' time he is going to encounter an irresistible force.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    Who would have though it?

    And some people want to make junior school kids consider whether they really are the sex they, for want of a better word or phrase, are
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    I would have said it was denazified in exactly the same way as postwar Germany - an initial burst of enthusiasm, followed up by bureaucratic incompetence and institutional lethargy leaving large numbers of Nazis untouched.

    Not forgetting that the most prominent Austrian Nazi was among those hanged at Nuremburg.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    ydoethur said:



    Not forgetting that the most prominent Austrian Nazi was among those hanged at Nuremburg.

    Second-most, surely? ;-)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Surely he was not likely to break into Edelweiss, seeing that (1) it's not an Austrian song and (2) it was written as an anthem of anti-Nazism.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Chris said:

    nico67 said:

    Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

    We seem to be in the position where Johnson has staked his career on being an immovable object, but in two weeks' time he is going to encounter an irresistible force.
    The EU should offer one final extension till next June. The new budget has to be decided after that point and the UK can’t cause too much drama upto then with its veto .

    That gives enough time for a GE , new negotiation or another EU referendum .

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Chris said:

    nico67 said:

    Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

    We seem to be in the position where Johnson has staked his career on being an immovable object, but in two weeks' time he is going to encounter an irresistible force.
    Other way around, surely?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    I would have said it was denazified in exactly the same way as postwar Germany - an initial burst of enthusiasm, followed up by bureaucratic incompetence and institutional lethargy leaving large numbers of Nazis untouched.

    Not forgetting that the most prominent Austrian Nazi was among those hanged at Nuremburg.
    Surely Hitler was the most prominent Austrian Nazi?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    The sun is setting on this thread
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    I would have said it was denazified in exactly the same way as postwar Germany - an initial burst of enthusiasm, followed up by bureaucratic incompetence and institutional lethargy leaving large numbers of Nazis untouched.

    Not forgetting that the most prominent Austrian Nazi was among those hanged at Nuremburg.
    Surely Hitler was the most prominent Austrian Nazi?
    The Austrians would have disagreed. They revoked his Austrian passport in 1924. But yes, I concede the point.

    Who was it said the greatest achievement of Austria was to convince the World Hitler was German and Mozart was Austrian?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    I would have said it was denazified in exactly the same way as postwar Germany - an initial burst of enthusiasm, followed up by bureaucratic incompetence and institutional lethargy leaving large numbers of Nazis untouched.

    Not forgetting that the most prominent Austrian Nazi was among those hanged at Nuremburg.
    Surely Hitler was the most prominent Austrian Nazi?
    Let's ask Ken?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I don't know that it's a good idea to describe anyone in derogatory terms just because you disagree with them politically,

    Certainly not as a matter of course. If you do that you are the loon.

    However - quick tale - back in my reprehensible City days I once spent an evening with an Austrian chap in Vienna. We were celebrating a transaction with a few beers. Seemed a solid enough bloke and all fine until about the 3rd beverage when talk turned to politics. He started emoting about the 'Old Austria' and became a little emotional. Teary even. I probed as to what he meant and it opened the floodgates. Lengthy monologue, voice wobbly, table banged, much talk of racial purity and the need to defend it at all costs. Did everything except break into Edelweiss.

    I realized I was in the presence of a loon.
    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    The sequence of events allowed them to think themselves, in retrospect, as first victim.


  • Sounds about right.

    The government's best bet is probably a "Brexit is in peril. Defend it with all your might." election, and getting a big enough majority to ignore any holdouts on either side of the internal debate. (What sort of majority will they need to do that? I doubt that they could sleep totally easily unless it was 50ish +.)

    Securing Brexit, then having an election feels a lot more chancy. Some (many?) will be grateful, but the debate will just move onto the long-term relationship. So much for "Getting Brexit Done". Besides, once the spotlight moves onto the future vision, the Northern Strategy looks much harder- the Britannia Unchained lot aren't going to want the same thing as the good people of, say, Dewsbury.

    So- Remainers, and feathersoft Leavers are better off acting before any election. If only on the "do the opposite of what your opponent wants" principle. If they can put the subject to bed (e.g. Deal vs Remain referendum), so much the better. A two week post-Boris government can't do that. Can a government coalesce for long enough to make this work? I don't know.

    Still, in a few weeks time, we might find out.

    I can't really see the current commons voting for a referendum.

    The steam left in the current house is barely sufficient to force an extension and pack up for an election. If the opposition can't even agree on a leader to do that (though I can see the attraction in forcing Boris to), it ain't going to steer us for six months to a referendum.. nor probably find a majority for one.

    Slightly perversely, I *could* see an emergency revoke if Boris found a way to head full speed for the cliffs.

    As an aside, after all this "Get Brexit Done" nonsense, the look on leavers' faces when the debate starts about the future relationship is going to be a *picture*.
    Depends how bonkers things get in the next three and a half weeks.

    If No 10 goes full-on Bond villain in their Do Or Die plan, an emergency dumping of the PM, followed by a quick Revoke and election might work. It's probably the way to a huge Boris Party majority, though.

    So to prevent that, time is needed, to calm things down and leak all the stuff that will embarrass the previous government. So that needs a medium term deal.

    Nobody wants that, which is why it's not happened yet. The question is whether there comes a point where the alternatives are all even worse. That's what we're about to see.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    Chris said:

    Surely he was not likely to break into Edelweiss, seeing that (1) it's not an Austrian song and (2) it was written as an anthem of anti-Nazism.

    Sound Of Music fan!

    No shame. I am.

    And the 'Edelweiss' scene is my favourite. Lump in throat.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    Nigelb said:

    Austria was never de-Nazified in the manner of postwar Germany, so I suspect that was not uncommon.

    I spent a lot of time in Vienna and I did sense a sinister undertone there.

    Which occasionally - as happened on that night - became overt.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,260
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

    Ahem.....
    :D
    Well that was bound to happen
    Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....
    Steer clear of the opposition, the Conservatives are bound to win the next election.
    🤞 Hopefully you've jinxed that now!
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