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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    Woah! WTF is a Shinner doing at the Plaid Conference? Did she get lost? Ireland's a bit further west than Cardiff, shurely...?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Flanner said:

    malcolmg said:
    Can you believe the knuckle draggers, shocking.
    This clip appears to show people from these islands chanting in support of the IRA. I've no idea where it was shot, but for some reason a Twitter account attributes it to "Catholic Schools and sectarian bigotry."


    But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.

    Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.

    Are you stupid, it was F the pope and the IRA, get your ears checked you halfwitted cretin.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    If you don't like it we can leave :lol:
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    Agreed.

    But who will be PM through those months?
    Sir Trevor McDonald :wink:
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Aren’t times strange . I grew up with those fears around the IRA bombing London when I lived there . I thought Sinn Fein were evil and now fast forward to now and they seem quite sane and the DUP the nutjobs .
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of...European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    Hahaha...that is fantastic.

    Orwell couldn't have kept a straight face if he'd written that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    I was going to make a joke about "powerful organ", but then I realised I'm an adult with a mortgage... :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Freggles said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    If you don't like it we can leave :lol:
    About that.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    SunnyJim said:

    viewcode said:


    Have you thought this thru? He extends and throws a strop, and...

    1. Will this damage the EU? No. It gets problematic in June next year because of the budget, but even after that its more delay than destroy
    2. Will nominating an awkward EU Commissioner damage the EU? No, because the role of each commissioner is decided by the EU, so he could well end up as "Commissioner for paperclips" (if you think that's a joke, look at the other ones.)

    But if you genuinely feel that staying in and mocking the EU is the way to go, then please, please don't let me stop you. If you want to have a really long bit of really severe mocking (just so you can fully vent), please feel free to extend for many, many years. Knock yourself out. Stay in and mock them up until, ooh, 2022? That way he can get a really good strop on... :)

    This would a tactical rather than strategic move.

    Its only purpose would be to mitigate the damage of extending.
    Ah, I see, thank you
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited October 2019
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    I was going to make a joke about "powerful organ", but then I realised I'm an adult with a mortgage... :)
    Perhaps it was intentional :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    eristdoof said:

    Then why don't you send your 7 MPs to Westminster to help prevent him from bullying Ireland?
    Given the SNP have 35 and not counting the useless Tories, Labour and Lib Dems , yet Scotland gets bullied all the time, what impact do you think 7 will have.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited October 2019
    eristdoof said:

    Then why don't you send your 7 MPs to Westminster to help prevent him from bullying Ireland?
    Simply because their consciences will not allow them to swear an oath or make an affirmation that they "will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth".

    You may dislike and despise them but the logic of their position is hard to deny.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
    I think you need reading comprehension lessons.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    edited October 2019
    viewcode said:

    Since I'm a good Muslim boy and don't drink alcohol can someone explain to me why this is product is against God and nature?

    https://twitter.com/TheGlenlivet/status/1179447297807147009

    Excellent! Whisky sweeties!
    Me as a child "Excellent! Sweeties!"
    Me as an adult "Excellent! Whisky!"
    "Excellent! Whisky sweeties!" over my dead body!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231

    viewcode said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I wondered how he was going to dig himself out of the hole of having to extend.

    If Cameron's flounce was worth 5 points on his polling this will be dynamite.
    Have you thought this thru? He extends and throws a strop, and...

    1. Will this damage the EU? No. It gets problematic in June next year because of the budget, but even after that its more delay than destroy
    2. Will nominating an awkward EU Commissioner damage the EU? No, because the role of each commissioner is decided by the EU, so he could well end up as "Commissioner for paperclips" (if you think that's a joke, look at the other ones.)

    But if you genuinely feel that staying in and mocking the EU is the way to go, then please, please don't let me stop you. If you want to have a really long bit of really severe mocking (just so you can fully vent), please feel free to extend for many, many years. Knock yourself out. Stay in and mock them up until, ooh, 2022? That way he can get a really good strop on... :)
    That's the point though, isn't it? Leavers feel like their guy is fighting for them, the EU isn't damaged in any material way, everybody wins... Just like Cameron's flounce, where he got a pretty decent polling boost and the rest of the EU just carried on and did what they'd been doing in the first place.
    I know. My advice was only partly in jest.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    Having a hissy fit mitigates the 'damage' of extending?

    Yes! This is the whole point about brexitism, and all the previous strains. It's not about outcomes - there isn't even a coherent outcome that these people want. If you gave them everything they asked for they'd be even angrier.

    It's about somebody fighting. Fighting for US. Fighting against THEM.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    Commissioners are there to support the EU not work against it. Would you support an MP in the Commons actively working to bring it down . I’ve never understood why Farage and the rest want to be MEPs , if they hate the place so much then why be part of it.
    They tell me the pay and perks are rather good.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
    I think you need reading comprehension lessons.
    Nice. The word and here implies these are the two criteria against which a candidate is judged, and I was commenting on the second.

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
    I think you need reading comprehension lessons.
    Nice. The word and here implies these are the two criteria against which a candidate is judged, and I was commenting on the second.

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."
    Try harder.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
    I think you need reading comprehension lessons.
    Nice. The word and here implies these are the two criteria against which a candidate is judged, and I was commenting on the second.

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."
    Try harder.
    I’m trying to debate this seriously?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106



    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?

    As a voice for the 52% who voted to leave?

    Never mind, don't bother replying lol.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Just one poll - poor show.

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    eristdoof said:

    Then why don't you send your 7 MPs to Westminster to help prevent him from bullying Ireland?
    Simply because their consciences will not allow them to swear an oath or make an affirmation that they "will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth".

    You may dislike and despise them but the logic of their position is hard to deny.
    Yes I get that. But it is ironic that the consequences are that it is easier for the Conservatives to form a government and the DUP to be C&S partners.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    He'll do anything for their money
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Bozo is going to find himself in trouble with the courts .

    Actively seeking to sabotage an extension will be ruled out on Monday when the Court of Sessions rules against the government .

  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Provisional Plaid ?

    I guess they have tried being sane and it hasn’t got them far..
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    So that idiots can’t play silly buggers in just the sort of way contemplated here.
    I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse to block people with a legitimate viewpoint from being appointed.
    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?
    Isn’t that separate from the criteria that they must be a fully signed up federalist?
    I think you need reading comprehension lessons.
    Nice. The word and here implies these are the two criteria against which a candidate is judged, and I was commenting on the second.

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."
    Try harder.
    I’m trying to debate this seriously?
    First, there are three not two criteria. Secondly, your mind seems to have a weird short circuit where you leap from “European commitment” to “fully signed up federalist”.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    SunnyJim said:


    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of...European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    Hahaha...that is fantastic.

    Orwell couldn't have kept a straight face if he'd written that.
    You can’t say that!!! Everything the EU is, says and does is beyond criticism.

    Criticism of the EU in anyway shows you to be an illiterate little Englander, racist xenophobic bigot.

    If you were in any way educated you would know the EU is the paragon of good government, stability, transparency and democracy. It cannot be faulted. In any way. It shall continue eternally without the need for any amendment.

    All decisions are just. All decisions are without prejudice. All statements are true and beyond doubt.

    Under its benevolent oversight no one will ever lose their job. The economy will forever grow and living standards forever rise in a utopian paradise of peace and contentment.

    Open your mind.


  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    Con equals lab + lib dem. I had a sudden flashback to April 2017...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    PeterC said:

    They tell me the pay and perks are rather good.

    It's genius, Farage will also get a generous pension... but only if Britain leaves with a deal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SunnyJim said:



    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?

    As a voice for the 52% who voted to leave?

    Never mind, don't bother replying lol.

    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    nico67 said:

    Bozo is going to find himself in trouble with the courts .

    Actively seeking to sabotage an extension will be ruled out on Monday when the Court of Sessions rules against the government .


    Captioned in the papers alongside Lady Hale's slide.

    Perfect for the Tories.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    She applied for hundreds of jobs? And who has hundreds of emails relating to her apart from her?
    A hacked email account; a conveniently-stolen laptop? Arcurigate seems a bit meh! so far. The ST needs to move beyond proving Arcuri and Boris knew each other. Is it the ST's position that Boris was a silly old fool to be taken in by a young woman on the make? The ST should follow the money or give it a rest.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The LDs have endorsed Dominic Grieve in Beaconsfield. They're not standing.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    I guess Plaid and SF/IRA do have one thing in common..

    They both like a good leek.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Boris is threatening to go all Bullingdon in a posh restaurant....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1180585538622910465?s=20

    Pathetic. I suggest the OODA loopers consider Article 17 of the Treaty of the European Union.
    Just looked it up at your prompting, thanks:

    "The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt..."

    "...A member of the Commission shall resign if the President so requests."
    Doesn’t sound very democratic to me. Why shouldn’t a eurosceptic be able to have a position in a powerful organ of the EU?
    I was going to make a joke about "powerful organ", but then I realised I'm an adult with a mortgage... :)
    You're just too modest to mention your 32 foot Diapason. :wink:
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019
    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.
  • The leader of Redbridge Council has been suspended from the Labour Party over "extremely serious allegations".

    Jas Athwal is running to become Labour's parliamentary candidate in Ilford South, and a decision was due on Saturday. Applications have since reopened.

    The move sparked accusations of a "stitch-up" to allow a Jeremy Corbyn supporter to become the candidate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49944605
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.

    If the only way the EU can function is with drones whilst accusing anybody with a dissenting view as a 'monomaniac' then it tells you all you need to know about it as an organisation.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The leader of Redbridge Council has been suspended from the Labour Party over "extremely serious allegations".

    Jas Athwal is running to become Labour's parliamentary candidate in Ilford South, and a decision was due on Saturday. Applications have since reopened.

    The move sparked accusations of a "stitch-up" to allow a Jeremy Corbyn supporter to become the candidate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49944605

    We did this the other night. Didn't Corbyn intervene to stop the so-called pro-Corbyn stitch-up?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    The leader of Redbridge Council has been suspended from the Labour Party over "extremely serious allegations".

    Jas Athwal is running to become Labour's parliamentary candidate in Ilford South, and a decision was due on Saturday. Applications have since reopened.

    The move sparked accusations of a "stitch-up" to allow a Jeremy Corbyn supporter to become the candidate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49944605

    This is a bit old now, things have moved on:

    "Labour reopens applications for safe seat after 'stitch-up' accusations"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/05/labour-reopens-applications-for-ilford-south

    Nevertheless it still adds up to yet another reason I'm not likely to vote Labour.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Oooh, the Boris Paradox. I like it. Everything about him is a paradox.
  • Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    eristdoof said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Oooh, the Boris Paradox. I like it. Everything about him is a paradox.
    Let's not forget that Labour were ahead in most of the polls in April and May this year, and also in about half of the polls in January and June.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SunnyJim said:


    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.

    If the only way the EU can function is with drones whilst accusing anybody with a dissenting view as a 'monomaniac' then it tells you all you need to know about it as an organisation.
    Nigel Farage wants to destroy the EU. No sane organisation gives such a person a position of responsibility in its running.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    PeterC said:

    They tell me the pay and perks are rather good.

    It's genius, Farage will also get a generous pension... but only if Britain leaves with a deal.
    And as the pension is based on no. of year's service, the longer it takes to get a deal, the larger his pension!!!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    SunnyJim said:


    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.

    If the only way the EU can function is with drones whilst accusing anybody with a dissenting view as a 'monomaniac' then it tells you all you need to know about it as an organisation.
    Sounds like the Tory party to me 😜
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2019

    SunnyJim said:


    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.

    If the only way the EU can function is with drones whilst accusing anybody with a dissenting view as a 'monomaniac' then it tells you all you need to know about it as an organisation.
    Nigel Farage wants to destroy the EU. No sane organisation gives such a person a position of responsibility in its running.
    The SNP/SF want to destroy the UK yet Corbyn would quite happily work with both if he ever ran the country.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    LMAO, you thought Labour would get annihilated by their own supporters just for initially refusing Johnson's request for an election. Whilst the public have a lot of problems with Labour right now, nobody gives a shit about Corbyn being "frit" to have an election - why do you think even the Tories gave up on their "Chicken Corbyn" thing after a couple of days?

    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    Anybody know what happens if we're still in the EU when the new budget is implemented? As it was presumably designed on the basis of our leaving, does it have to be redrafted?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Danny565 said:


    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.

    A more accurate summary of the craven venality of Labour MPs would be difficult to write.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,546
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    LMAO, you thought Labour would get annihilated by their own supporters just for initially refusing Johnson's request for an election. Whilst the public have a lot of problems with Labour right now, nobody gives a shit about Corbyn being "frit" to have an election - why do you think even the Tories gave up on their "Chicken Corbyn" thing after a couple of days?

    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.
    Quite. And when Johnson has caved and accepted an extension beyond 31 October it's not likely the Tories will want an election either. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all his "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Re leadership approval ratings:

    Theresa May averaged 48% in the 3 months up to the June 2017 election.

    Boris Johnson has averaged 36% in his first 3 months as PM.

    Draw your own conclusions.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.
    There's very little evidence to support this is how it will play. But it's all Labour has to cling onto to justify preventing an election.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.

    This I do agree with.

    Which is why once parliament rejects the opportunity to avoid the no-deal they claim to be terrified of the government will resign.

    GE.

    Labour annihilated.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    SunnyJim said:



    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?

    As a voice for the 52% who voted to leave?

    Never mind, don't bother replying lol.

    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.
    Half of Britain is Eurosceptic. At least. These legal demands for EU commissioners to be europhile and ‘possessed of a European vocation’, etc, mean at least half of British people could NEVER be part of their supreme government and executive, the EU Commission. Hence, Brexit.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    LMAO, you thought Labour would get annihilated by their own supporters just for initially refusing Johnson's request for an election. Whilst the public have a lot of problems with Labour right now, nobody gives a shit about Corbyn being "frit" to have an election - why do you think even the Tories gave up on their "Chicken Corbyn" thing after a couple of days?

    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.
    Quite. And when Johnson has caved and accepted an extension beyond 31 October it's not likely the Tories will want an election either. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all his "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
    He said he would die in a ditch for an october brexit.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Re leadership approval ratings:

    Theresa May averaged 48% in the 3 months up to the June 2017 election.

    Boris Johnson has averaged 36% in his first 3 months as PM.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    I conclude that there is a reason you haven’t mentioned the figure for Jezza..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    Byronic said:

    SunnyJim said:



    What valuable role do you think Nigel Farage could perform for the EU?

    As a voice for the 52% who voted to leave?

    Never mind, don't bother replying lol.

    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.
    Half of Britain is Eurosceptic. At least. These legal demands for EU commissioners to be europhile and ‘possessed of a European vocation’, etc, mean at least half of British people could NEVER be part of their supreme government and executive, the EU Commission. Hence, Brexit.
    It would be entertaining to see Nigel F at a confirmation hearing, arguing that he supports Europe but the EU always operates against Europe's interests. He could no doubt provide hundreds of instances where that is so. Then watch his interrogators squirm.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,546
    eristdoof said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    LMAO, you thought Labour would get annihilated by their own supporters just for initially refusing Johnson's request for an election. Whilst the public have a lot of problems with Labour right now, nobody gives a shit about Corbyn being "frit" to have an election - why do you think even the Tories gave up on their "Chicken Corbyn" thing after a couple of days?

    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.
    Quite. And when Johnson has caved and accepted an extension beyond 31 October it's not likely the Tories will want an election either. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all his "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
    He said he would die in a ditch for an october brexit.
    An October Brexit is not going to happen. Johnson may be deceased in the ditch but the UK will still be in the EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.
    According to Opinium tonight by offering the EU a Deal Boris has gained LD votes and a few Labour voters too to make up for any lost to the Brexit Party
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    TGOHF2 said:

    Re leadership approval ratings:

    Theresa May averaged 48% in the 3 months up to the June 2017 election.

    Boris Johnson has averaged 36% in his first 3 months as PM.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    I conclude that there is a reason you haven’t mentioned the figure for Jezza..
    I didn't think Jezza's general crappiness was in dispute but since you prompted me and I have the right Wiki pages open and a spreadsheet to hand:

    Jezza's average approval ratings:

    3 months to June 2017 = 24%
    3 months to date = 19%
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,546
    SunnyJim said:


    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.

    This I do agree with.

    Which is why once parliament rejects the opportunity to avoid the no-deal they claim to be terrified of the government will resign.

    GE.

    Labour annihilated.
    Johnson has spent all his life coveting the premiership. He will not resign until he is forced to do so.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    eristdoof said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    LMAO, you thought Labour would get annihilated by their own supporters just for initially refusing Johnson's request for an election. Whilst the public have a lot of problems with Labour right now, nobody gives a shit about Corbyn being "frit" to have an election - why do you think even the Tories gave up on their "Chicken Corbyn" thing after a couple of days?

    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.
    Quite. And when Johnson has caved and accepted an extension beyond 31 October it's not likely the Tories will want an election either. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all his "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
    He said he would die in a ditch for an october brexit.
    What hasn't he said in his career?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    SunnyJim said:


    Other than that - Remain / Revoke is my preferred option because Brexit is the biggest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.

    Seeking to overturn the democratic will of over 17 million voters before implementing that verdict would be the greatest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.

    Leaving the EU and then campaigning to rejoin on a manifesto commitment woud be the honest way of achieving remainer/rejoiner aims.

    And yet they seem terrified of having to go before the people and make the case.
    Believe it or not, I would be quite happy for you to get your precious Brexit. I would be interested to hear what excuses you would come up with for the non-delivery of your unicorns.

    I will be alright (note the flag in my avatar - there is clue there)

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    SunnyJim said:

    Danny565 said:


    Labour MPs are politicians, and therefore will do whatever serves their own interests at any time. If they think they'll do badly in an election, they won't approve one.

    A more accurate summary of the craven venality of Labour MPs would be difficult to write.
    This would be the same Labour party who complain that they think the tories are putting party above country?

    And they hope we will not notice.....
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very good Opinium poll for the Tories. Which means we should remember the Boris Paradox: the better the Tories look like they'd do in an election, the less likely it is an election gets called (since the majority of MPs who hate him have no wish to help him).

    Unless the Tories do collapse after Boris extends A50, I'd say lay a 2019 election hard, and I wouldn't even be that keen on taking 2020.

    You think that Labour will be able to cower and hide from the electorate until 2022?

    How's that going to look to their supporters? Labour would be annihilated if they even tried that.
    The Reverse Boris Paradox also applies... The longer he goes on as PM without delivering Brexit the weaker his support will become.
    According to Opinium tonight by offering the EU a Deal Boris has gained LD votes and a few Labour voters too to make up for any lost to the Brexit Party
    Oh, that's the explanation Opinium gives for the poll changes is it?

    And there's me thinking it was just polling noise that has led the last four Opinium polls to show 37%, 37%, 36% and 38% for the Tories. Silly me, eh!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Fishing said:

    Anybody know what happens if we're still in the EU when the new budget is implemented? As it was presumably designed on the basis of our leaving, does it have to be redrafted?

    Apparently the next MFF or 7 year budget has to be agreed in June . That needs unanimous consent . So the EU is likely to view that as the absolute latest the UK could extend to . There’s nothing before that which needs all 28 members agreeing so for all of the latest sabotage threats the EU can just ignore the latest Bozo tantrums .

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Believe it or not, I would be quite happy for you to get your precious Brexit. I would be interested to hear what excuses you would come up with for the non-delivery of your unicorns.

    I will be alright (note the flag in my avatar - there is clue there)

    It isn't 'my' Brexit...it is the Brexit of over 17 million voters.

    And waving your flag whilst supporting efforts to overturn the result is an interesting angle.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    nico67 said:

    Fishing said:

    Anybody know what happens if we're still in the EU when the new budget is implemented? As it was presumably designed on the basis of our leaving, does it have to be redrafted?

    Apparently the next MFF or 7 year budget has to be agreed in June . That needs unanimous consent . So the EU is likely to view that as the absolute latest the UK could extend to . There’s nothing before that which needs all 28 members agreeing so for all of the latest sabotage threats the EU can just ignore the latest Bozo tantrums .

    Makes sense, so extend to June, and if we end up back in the same situation come June then parliament may also have to legislate to make the PM agree the MFF.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited October 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. I mean the abuse you would get off people. It can be quite intimidating canvassing in a safe Labour seat for the Tories up North. You get threats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. I mean the abuse you would get off people. It can be quite intimidating canvassing in a safe Labour seat for the Tories up North. You get threats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited October 2019
    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited October 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Maybe if the Majority in Parliament is not able to support the Tories, someone else should get a turn before an election? A GE might not provide a clear cut result either. Everything reasonable has to be tried before going back to the public. BJ throw his Parliamentary advantage away by removing the whip from 20 odd MPs remember that!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    TGOHF2 said:

    Just one poll - poor show.

    There must be a YouGov? There is ALWAYS YouGov! :D
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    The nastiest fuckers on the doorsteps are not Labour but LibDems.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The longer the UK stays in the lower the so called exit bill is .

    I wish the media would stop peddling the 39 billion line . That’s already been reduced by 7 months of EU payments .

    I expect the EU will offer one final extension till the end of May 2020 .

    They’ll probably call it a flexible extension and can be ended sooner with a deal .



  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Maybe if the Majority in Parliament is not able to support the Tories, someone else should get a turn before an election? A GE might not provide a clear cut result either. Everything reasonable has to be tried before going back to the public. BJ throw his Parliamentary advantage away by removing the whip from 20 odd MPs remember that!
    McDonnell has already said in no circumstances will Labour support anyone other than Jezza heading a "unity" government and Lib-Dems + Exiled Con will never go for it.

    If the Queens Speech is voted down the only outcome can be a general election.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I don't think trying to sabotage the EU is a good idea from the Tories. They'd lose support with that policy IMO.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that,
    Since PB is Pedantic Betting (sometimes) I should point out that, technically, Dec 5th is late Autumn. Winter commences on 22nd Dec. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    The nastiest fuckers on the doorsteps are not Labour but LibDems.
    Yes it is the patronising tone of contempt that grates from LDs, Labour at least either politely tell you they are not interested or tell you to bugger off
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    The nastiest fuckers on the doorsteps are not Labour but LibDems.
    Yes it is the patronising tone of contempt that grates from LDs, Labour at least either politely tell you they are not interested or tell you to bugger off
    Politely, bugger off, HYUFD. :smile:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that,
    Since PB is Pedantic Betting (sometimes) I should point out that, technically, Dec 5th is late Autumn. Winter commences on 22nd Dec. ;)
    Pah, says who?

    In meteorological reckoning it's December, January and February in the UK.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. I mean the abuse you would get off people. It can be quite intimidating canvassing in a safe Labour seat for the Tories up North. You get threats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    SunnyJim said:


    Believe it or not, I would be quite happy for you to get your precious Brexit. I would be interested to hear what excuses you would come up with for the non-delivery of your unicorns.

    I will be alright (note the flag in my avatar - there is clue there)

    It isn't 'my' Brexit...it is the Brexit of over 17 million voters.

    And waving your flag whilst supporting efforts to overturn the result is an interesting angle.
    I am not really waving it. Just pointing out that I will still be an EU citizen regardless of the outcome. However, I do not enjoy the thought of the UK getting hammered just because the Leave campaign was highly effective at lying and convincing enough people that bad = good.

    We already know that Brexit is already costing more than that magical £350m a week we are supposed to be saving. We have proven that Parliament is sovereign, so we never lost control (therefore no need to Take it Back). We also have uncovered the fact that we could ALWAYS have had blue passports, but out govt went for red. Finally we discovered that the whole of Turkey and Syria is not joining the EU and therefore not popping over to Britain to establish the western Caliphate.

    So, you have to ask - what is the point of it all?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    AndyJS said:

    I don't think trying to sabotage the EU is a good idea from the Tories. They'd lose support with that policy IMO.

    I think this is a huge own goal . And not a great look if you’re trying to play the blame game . It will also cause huge anger amongst the 20 Tory rebels . This looks like a petulant child now throwing its toys out of the pram because it can’t get its way .
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Joker:

    Critics rating: 70%
    Audience rating: 92%

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/joker_2019
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited October 2019
    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that,
    Since PB is Pedantic Betting (sometimes) I should point out that, technically, Dec 5th is late Autumn. Winter commences on 22nd Dec. ;)
    Pah, says who?

    In meteorological reckoning it's December, January and February in the UK.
    Oh yeah? Those climate types.... who listens to anything they say? Darned experts....
This discussion has been closed.