The Kinnockite grouping has been chuntering about backing MV4 if the social/environmental/level playing field provisions in the PD were *beefed up*.
Boris has ( so far ) entirely removed them. One of the more mystifying aspects of the PB Brexit echo chamber is why Kinnock is going to ride to the resuce just at the moment the Tories have moved even further from his position.
Read the Wales opinion poll this morning to understand Kinnock's position
Opinion polls only matter at an election.
They have to retain their Labour rosette first and that's going to be a lot harder.
The trend is away from labour and it is a real problem in the Valleys and for Kinnock
Is that why Labour made 3 gains in Wales in 2017 - and nearly took 3 more - including Aberconway?
Oh Justin. That was then, this is now and believe me if you had to put up with Labour's collapsing NHS and Education in our Principality you may have a different view altogether
The second referendum before an election hits the charts and goes straight in at number one , the unicorn global trade guff has lost the top spot after record sales .
Can someone explain how you get a second vote before an election.
Not saying it's the most likely outcome likely but:
1) Boris wants a deal but can't pass it, cuts a deal with opposition parties to back it subject to a referendum, which he can cheerfully sell by being positive and optimistic about winning it
2) VONC, GNU to deliver Brexit. Passes TMay or BJ WA + Softer PD + confirmatory referendum
But a GNU won’t last long enough to enact a second vote and if Bozo goes for a second vote he’s toast . I accept he is one of the only Leavers that could try and sell it but I think even he will fail on that front .
The second referendum before an election hits the charts and goes straight in at number one , the unicorn global trade guff has lost the top spot after record sales .
Can someone explain how you get a second vote before an election.
Not saying it's the most likely outcome likely but:
1) Boris wants a deal but can't pass it, cuts a deal with opposition parties to back it subject to a referendum, which he can cheerfully sell by being positive and optimistic about winning it
2) VONC, GNU to deliver Brexit. Passes TMay or BJ WA + Softer PD + confirmatory referendum
But a GNU won’t last long enough to enact a second vote and if Bozo goes for a second vote he’s toast . I accept he is one of the only Leavers that could try and sell it but I think even he will fail on that front .
Disagree about the GNU. I think the hard part is getting it started, which has the complication of how to get Corbyn out of the way without anyone losing too much face. Provided the ex-Cons don't become ex-ex-Cons there's quite a decent majority there, and the broad outlines of the way forward are pretty clear.
For it to subsequently burn down somebody has to set fire to it, which SNP and LD won't do (lose chance to stop brexit), ex-Cons won't do (potential no deal, careers instantly end in ridiculous failure) and Lab won't do (they need to get brexit out of the way before they fight an election).
This touches on something I've asked Brexit supporters on here a couple of times.
Brexit supporters often are the ones who are most contemptuous of British politicians. Which, on one level, is fair enough. But then I can't understand why they're still so enthusiastic for Brexit, when the main consequence of it is going to be British politicians taking even more decision-making powers over a ton of different things (trade deals, immigration, fishing policy, agriculture, you name it) than they have now. If people feel that politicians have been incompetent / indecisive / have "betrayed Britain" during the Brexit process itself, what makes people think they'll be any different when they're exercising the new powers they get post-Brexit??
Democracy.
If we don't like our politicians we can kick them out and elect new ones.
Democracy happened in 2017, after the Brexit vote, yet that led to politicians who you apparently consider to have arsed things up. Why would the same not happen again??
It can happen. In which case we kick them out again.
Its like evolution via mutations, mutations can be good or bad but over time evolution ensures the good ones are more likely to be passed down than bad ones. Every new government will generally have some good and some bad ideas: We kick them out when they tire and then a fresh government keeps what worked from the last one and deals with what didn't. We never will nor never should be at a point where we have an ideal government that will last us forever, the bastards will always need to be kicked out eventually and that is what democracy is there for. Democracy never ends.
If you live in a marginal constituency your vote may matter if you don’t what you think is irrelevant that’s not democracy
Pretty harsh sentences for the Catalonian Independence leaders in Spain.
That is hard to reconcile and difficult to see the same treatment would be given to Nicola and Co here for primarily political differences and an unauthorised Independence Election.
Pretty harsh sentences for the Catalonian Independence leaders in Spain.
That is hard to reconcile and difficult to see the same treatment would be given to Nicola and Co here for primarily political differences and an unauthorised Independence Election.
The court acquitted them on political charges. Spain cherishes the rule of law and the independence of the courts. I thought that was also the case in the UK.
The second referendum before an election hits the charts and goes straight in at number one , the unicorn global trade guff has lost the top spot after record sales .
Can someone explain how you get a second vote before an election.
This touches on something I've asked Brexit supporters on here a couple of times.
Brexit supporters often are the ones who are most contemptuous of British politicians. Which, on one level, is fair enough. But then I can't understand why they're still so enthusiastic for Brexit, when the main consequence of it is going to be British politicians taking even more decision-making powers over a ton of different things (trade deals, immigration, fishing policy, agriculture, you name it) than they have now. If people feel that politicians have been incompetent / indecisive / have "betrayed Britain" during the Brexit process itself, what makes people think they'll be any different when they're exercising the new powers they get post-Brexit??
Democracy.
If we don't like our politicians we can kick them out and elect new ones.
Democracy happened in 2017, after the Brexit vote, yet that led to politicians who you apparently consider to have arsed things up. Why would the same not happen again??
It can happen. In which case we kick them out again.
Its like evolution via mutations, mutations can be good or bad but over time evolution ensures the good ones are more likely to be passed down than bad ones. Every new government will generally have some good and some bad ideas: We kick them out when they tire and then a fresh government keeps what worked from the last one and deals with what didn't. We never will nor never should be at a point where we have an ideal government that will last us forever, the bastards will always need to be kicked out eventually and that is what democracy is there for. Democracy never ends.
If you live in a marginal constituency your vote may matter if you don’t what you think is irrelevant that’s not democracy
That's absolutely incorrect. There's no such thing as a literally safe seat. If you seat isn't a marginal that is only because the people in your area tend to vote the same way. Nothing prevents them changing their minds and they still need to vote every time.
Exactly . All this garbage spouted by no 10 about the so called surrender act . Bozo only made an effort to get a deal after the Benn Act was passed.
Exactly not. Johnson was clearly making efforts to get a deal before the Benn Act was passed, and appeared to be making some progress. The implications of Newton-Dunn's claim is no more than that the Benn Act undermined the UK's negotiating position even more than previously acknowledged. It did so because it: 1. Made it clear that if the EU offered nothing then they were not running the risk of the UK leaving on 31st October without a deal. [As previously argued by Johnson.] 2. Put additional pressure on Johnson to accept any old reheated gruel they offered up because of Johnson's fear of the consequences of extending beyond 31st October. [As now argued by Newton-Dunn, and clearly something that Johnson could never publically acknowledge.]
Sacrificing the UK's negotiating position in this way does not matter to Remainers promoting the Benn Act because the aim of the Act was quite clearly to stop the UK leaving in any meaningful way at all, whether with or without a deal.
The second referendum before an election hits the charts and goes straight in at number one , the unicorn global trade guff has lost the top spot after record sales .
Can someone explain how you get a second vote before an election.
Not saying it's the most likely outcome likely but:
1) Boris wants a deal but can't pass it, cuts a deal with opposition parties to back it subject to a referendum, which he can cheerfully sell by being positive and optimistic about winning it
2) VONC, GNU to deliver Brexit. Passes TMay or BJ WA + Softer PD + confirmatory referendum
But a GNU won’t last long enough to enact a second vote and if Bozo goes for a second vote he’s toast . I accept he is one of the only Leavers that could try and sell it but I think even he will fail on that front .
GNU. An acronym straight out of 1984 in terms of claiming to be the polar opposite of what it would actually amount to.
The Kinnockite grouping has been chuntering about backing MV4 if the social/environmental/level playing field provisions in the PD were *beefed up*.
Boris has ( so far ) entirely removed them. One of the more mystifying aspects of the PB Brexit echo chamber is why Kinnock is going to ride to the resuce just at the moment the Tories have moved even further from his position.
Read the Wales opinion poll this morning to understand Kinnock's position
Opinion polls only matter at an election.
They have to retain their Labour rosette first and that's going to be a lot harder.
The trend is away from labour and it is a real problem in the Valleys and for Kinnock
Is that why Labour made 3 gains in Wales in 2017 - and nearly took 3 more - including Aberconway?
Oh Justin. That was then, this is now and believe me if you had to put up with Labour's collapsing NHS and Education in our Principality you may have a different view altogether
Comments
For it to subsequently burn down somebody has to set fire to it, which SNP and LD won't do (lose chance to stop brexit), ex-Cons won't do (potential no deal, careers instantly end in ridiculous failure) and Lab won't do (they need to get brexit out of the way before they fight an election).
That is hard to reconcile and difficult to see the same treatment would be given to Nicola and Co here for primarily political differences and an unauthorised Independence Election.
Watson takes temporary charge
1. Made it clear that if the EU offered nothing then they were not running the risk of the UK leaving on 31st October without a deal. [As previously argued by Johnson.]
2. Put additional pressure on Johnson to accept any old reheated gruel they offered up because of Johnson's fear of the consequences of extending beyond 31st October. [As now argued by Newton-Dunn, and clearly something that Johnson could never publically acknowledge.]
Sacrificing the UK's negotiating position in this way does not matter to Remainers promoting the Benn Act because the aim of the Act was quite clearly to stop the UK leaving in any meaningful way at all, whether with or without a deal.