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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Elizabeth Warren drop to below 50% in the betting after the la

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Elizabeth Warren drop to below 50% in the betting after the latest Democratic debate

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  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NYT: Charles Blow on Biden at debate - "Bless his heart. It feels like he’s just hanging on for dear life. At moments, it felt like he vanished, not just because it wasn’t his time to speak but because his aura of invincibility is flickering like a candle in a hurricane. But he yelled in his closing, so there’s that."

    Other columnists also gave him the thumbs down.

    Not looking good for the Dems at the moment.

    The problem the Dems have is that their leading moderate is not as mentally sharp as he once was.

    Yes, I know I take the piss out of @HYUFD, but he's absolutely right that the Biden of 2016 was a formidable candidate who would have hammered Trump.

    But Biden is four years older, and isn't (frankly) as coherent as he was then. His inability to count to three. His inability to think on his feet. His statements that he's going to abolish capital gains tax... no wait, he's going to increase it.

    He's a man who was once great, but is now rambling and only semi-coherent. Trump would absolutely hammer him.

    Which leads to one of two conclusions: if Biden fades before Iowa, then whichever moderate is ahead of him there is going to be going toe-to-tow with Warren. If Biden manages to hang on to second in Iowa, then I think Warren is going to wipe the floor with Biden over the course of the Primaries.

    My view is that Biden is losing ground in Iowa, has the least committed support, and doesn't have the ground organisation. I think that points to someone else winning there. And right now, Buttigieg is the guy making waves in Iowa.
    Only Biden can beat Warren. Buttigieg will be toast if he ends up against her
    Disagree. I think Warren hammers Biden.

    In fact, I think everyone hammers Biden.

    Incoherence is not an attractive quality in a candidate.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    edited October 2019
    Second! Like LibDems
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Is there anything to the Buttigieg hype? Someone said he has good organisation in Iowa and oodles of cash, but is it working?
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited October 2019
    Fourth?
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NYT: Charles Blow on Biden at debate - "Bless his heart. It feels like he’s just hanging on for dear life. At moments, it felt like he vanished, not just because it wasn’t his time to speak but because his aura of invincibility is flickering like a candle in a hurricane. But he yelled in his closing, so there’s that."

    Other columnists also gave him the thumbs down.

    Not looking good for the Dems at the moment.

    The problem the Dems have is that their leading moderate is not as mentally sharp as he once was.

    Yes, I know I take the piss out of @HYUFD, but he's absolutely right that the Biden of 2016 was a formidable candidate who would have hammered Trump.

    But Biden is four years older, and isn't (frankly) as coherent as he was then. His inability to count to three. His inability to think on his feet. His statements that he's going to abolish capital gains tax... no wait, he's going to increase it.

    He's a man who was once great, but is now rambling and only semi-coherent. Trump would absolutely hammer him.

    Which leads to one of two conclusions: if Biden fades before Iowa, then whichever moderate is ahead of him there is going to be going toe-to-tow with Warren. If Biden manages to hang on to second in Iowa, then I think Warren is going to wipe the floor with Biden over the course of the Primaries.

    My view is that Biden is losing ground in Iowa, has the least committed support, and doesn't have the ground organisation. I think that points to someone else winning there. And right now, Buttigieg is the guy making waves in Iowa.
    Only Biden can beat Warren. Buttigieg will be toast if he ends up against her
    Disagree. I think Warren hammers Biden.

    In fact, I think everyone hammers Biden.

    Incoherence is not an attractive quality in a candidate.
    I think we probably agree more than that actually. I should have said I don't think anyone on the Dem bench but Biden can beat Warren, but that doesn't mean he will. I still think Mayor Pete doesn't have a hope.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    The Dem supporters I have run into over here almost all expect it to be Warren
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,153

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,969
    IanB2 said:

    Second! Like LibDems

    First describes Lib Dems
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    £/$ is a roller coaster today

    Boris's antics these last weeks have added £ to the cost of my trip.
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    Chill bro ..
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TGOHF2 said:

    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    Chill bro ..
    Expectation management!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    TGOHF2 said:

    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    Chill bro ..
    I’m about to hit the drinks cabinet ! This is like waiting for an elephant to give birth !
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    Chill bro ..
    Expectation management!
    Logic ain’t it bruv - the DUP ain’t daft - they will draw it out for the lolz.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    nico67 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    Chill bro ..
    I’m about to hit the drinks cabinet ! This is like waiting for an elephant to give birth !
    Majestic and hilarious?
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    nico67 said:

    OMG .

    Let me guess the DUP causing the problems .
    No, that would be the insolvable problems.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280

    Fourth?

    and multiply?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    So, if the DUP move toward the deal the Labour leavers probably move away (workers protection etc), so if the ex-Cons for the most part vote the way they did before the deal fails, but is closer than it has been before, the extension is asked for as no deal agreed, and then we have an election?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sorry, what Netflix show is this?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    kle4 said:

    Is there anything to the Buttigieg hype? Someone said he has good organisation in Iowa and oodles of cash, but is it working?

    Yes. He's doing very well in Iowa. There have been two polls in the last fortnight: oOne poll showed him up 10 points to 17% in Iowa (vs Biden on 22) and the other showed him up 7 points.

    For Buttigieg to have a real chance, he needs to beat Biden in Iowa. If you read the New York Times piece, he has by far the best physical organisation there, and is clearly getting traction. Biden also has relatively weak infrastructure in Iowa, and that matters in a caucus state. (See Obama's path the Presidency.)

    Caucus states also matter with the 15% bar at the prescinct level. This means second preferences matter. If your Harris or Kloubocher supporter realises her woman is going to get 15%, then they join another grouping. And Buttigieg does very well on second preferences.

    I think Buttigieg probably beats Biden in Iowa, and may even (say 5-1 chance) win the state ahead of Warren.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    kle4 said:

    So, if the DUP move toward the deal the Labour leavers probably move away (workers protection etc), so if the ex-Cons for the most part vote the way they did before the deal fails, but is closer than it has been before, the extension is asked for as no deal agreed, and then we have an election?

    Surely the workers protection alignment issue is for the UK only, and wouldn't be relevant to the leaving agreement? It's a commitment the UK parliament might make to its electors. Not to the EU.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NYT: Charles Blow on Biden at debate - "Bless his heart. It feels like he’s just hanging on for dear life. At moments, it felt like he vanished, not just because it wasn’t his time to speak but because his aura of invincibility is flickering like a candle in a hurricane. But he yelled in his closing, so there’s that."

    Other columnists also gave him the thumbs down.

    Not looking good for the Dems at the moment.

    The problem the Dems have is that their leading moderate is not as mentally sharp as he once was.

    Yes, I know I take the piss out of @HYUFD, but he's absolutely right that the Biden of 2016 was a formidable candidate who would have hammered Trump.

    But Biden is four years older, and isn't (frankly) as coherent as he was then. His inability to count to three. His inability to think on his feet. His statements that he's going to abolish capital gains tax... no wait, he's going to increase it.

    He's a man who was once great, but is now rambling and only semi-coherent. Trump would absolutely hammer him.

    Which leads to one of two conclusions: if Biden fades before Iowa, then whichever moderate is ahead of him there is going to be going toe-to-tow with Warren. If Biden manages to hang on to second in Iowa, then I think Warren is going to wipe the floor with Biden over the course of the Primaries.

    My view is that Biden is losing ground in Iowa, has the least committed support, and doesn't have the ground organisation. I think that points to someone else winning there. And right now, Buttigieg is the guy making waves in Iowa.
    Only Biden can beat Warren. Buttigieg will be toast if he ends up against her
    Disagree. I think Warren hammers Biden.

    In fact, I think everyone hammers Biden.

    Incoherence is not an attractive quality in a candidate.
    I think we probably agree more than that actually. I should have said I don't think anyone on the Dem bench but Biden can beat Warren, but that doesn't mean he will. I still think Mayor Pete doesn't have a hope.
    If Mayor Pete wins Iowa, he is the de facto moderate candidate.

    Now that's far, far from a certainty. But we need to remember the extent to which early contests define who the candidates that matter are.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited October 2019

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    So, if the DUP move toward the deal the Labour leavers probably move away (workers protection etc), so if the ex-Cons for the most part vote the way they did before the deal fails, but is closer than it has been before, the extension is asked for as no deal agreed, and then we have an election?

    Surely the workers protection alignment issue is for the UK only, and wouldn't be relevant to the leaving agreement? It's a commitment the UK parliament might make to its electors. Not to the EU.
    I don't know, I just know that all but a handful of that grouping always seem to be looking for reasons to say no, after suggesting they were willing.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
  • Options
    MuninMunin Posts: 7
    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?
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    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    Not really.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
    Funnily I was at a New York pizza joint yesterday lunchtime, and had to veto several of the pizza options I fancied because they had added pineapple to the offering
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    He [Pete Buttigieg]’s certainly the strongest contender under the age of 70.

    This is a pretty damning indictment of the quality of the Democratic field that their best candidate who is not of an age that would normally be well into retirement, is no more than the mayor of a town in Indiana.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
    Funnily I was at a New York pizza joint yesterday lunchtime, and had to veto several of the pizza options I fancied because they had added pineapple to the offering
    How can you survive in such a country?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    A joke

    A Scotsman walked into a pub... (there is usually an Englishman and an Irishman in this joke but they're still in the World Cup.)

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    No. They reflect received wisdom of those prepared to stake money on such matters. As such they reflect the prejudices, blind spots and hopes of that unrepresentative group.
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
    And $16,000 in cash .

    A quick google of the surname is enlightening.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
    Funnily I was at a New York pizza joint yesterday lunchtime, and had to veto several of the pizza options I fancied because they had added pineapple to the offering
    How can you survive in such a country?
    Choose a non-pineapple option and take the first ship home.

    I am actually pining for a cup of tea made with water somewhere near boiling point when it hits the teabag.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    Evening all :)

    Well, the Dance of the Seven Veils this isn't and I certainly feel somewhat overdressed at this stage.

    The backpedalling and voltes face of the key players is wondrous to behold and there will be those who, when they see the new "Deal", will wonder why if this Deal is so good why Theresa May's WA was so bad.

    Now, of course, we have increased fatigue and the ditch. As I said earlier, tired people often make bad decisions and tired people often support bad decisions. The sheer ennui of the people has become a frantic desire to agree to almost anything in order to get this "over with".

    So everyone wants a Deal and many seem set to abandon whatever principals they once had in order to get a Deal and ignore everything they've said in the past three years to ensure a Deal "gets over the line".

    As someone else has said, this is now about Boris and his personal political survival - he's not interested in the ditch and remember he will always say whatever the audience in front of him wants to hear. The interests of the country seem now to be a poor second to that.

    That's politics but as I misquoted Churchill earlier this isn't the end or even the beginning of the end. I'm not even sure it's the end of the beginning either. I do suspect once we have agreed the WA and formally left the line toward the EU will soften considerably and the PD will almost certainly be full of good intentions and kind words.
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    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    They lost.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    TGOHF2 said:

    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..


    Think I know where: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0023616,-122.4294834,3a,75y,232.74h,83.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saNfS0sLwqIBOcecXwgIBYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    Across the ditch is the US.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
    Funnily I was at a New York pizza joint yesterday lunchtime, and had to veto several of the pizza options I fancied because they had added pineapple to the offering
    How can you survive in such a country?
    It's a shame the "make your own pizza, $2.50 per extra topping offer" doesn't work in reverse.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    TGOHF2 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    They lost.
    Too early to say
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    Spectacular failures in the last few big events, right enough, along with the polling. The two are probably linked I’d say
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    TGOHF2 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    They lost.
    it's worth a listen to though. (catch on +1)
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    the story is here

    https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

    but it's worth watching the video
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    TGOHF2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
    And $16,000 in cash .

    A quick google of the surname is enlightening.
    I get a load of businesses near here, a stack of NY lawyers, and a lot of articles about tennis.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
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    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    the story is here

    https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

    but it's worth watching the video
    Imagine ISIS threatened to blow up the BBC if we stopped entering the Eurovision Song Contest - we would rightly tell them to fcck off.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    He [Pete Buttigieg]’s certainly the strongest contender under the age of 70.

    This is a pretty damning indictment of the quality of the Democratic field that their best candidate who is not of an age that would normally be well into retirement, is no more than the mayor of a town in Indiana.
    I think its rather good. You could have Chelsea Clinton and Hunter Biden - they've got great CVs.

    I've blown my cash on this, but for precisely these sort of reasons I'd backed Gabbard.

    I'd quite like to know how to pronounce Buttigieg's name. We may need to know.
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    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    the story is here

    https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

    but it's worth watching the video
    Alex Thomson - enough said - he was probably the one under the balaclava...
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    TGOHF2 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    the story is here

    https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

    but it's worth watching the video
    Imagine ISIS threatened to blow up the BBC if we stopped entering the Eurovision Song Contest - we would rightly tell them to fcck off.
    I don't deny that. all I said was that it was interesting and worth watching. I've given no opinion on the matter.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    TGOHF2 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    anyone watching C4News at the moment? they've got an interview with an 'reconsittuted IRA' man (dissident republican).

    the story is here

    https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

    but it's worth watching the video
    Imagine ISIS threatened to blow up the BBC if we stopped entering the Eurovision Song Contest - we would rightly tell them to fcck off.
    And pass up such a win-win?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    its all based on rateable value.. guess at a third of your water bill as sewerage, it'll still cost you a bomb.. septic tanks are not allowed anymore, I think you have to have a klargester.. that has to be emptied annually or more often....
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
    that's how electricity meters should work with energy generation surely
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    spudgfsh said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
    that's how electricity meters should work with energy generation surely
    Alas, no. They should only run forwards.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Andrew said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..


    Think I know where: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0023616,-122.4294834,3a,75y,232.74h,83.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saNfS0sLwqIBOcecXwgIBYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    Across the ditch is the US.
    Not far from there are a bunch of Canadian houses that are directly opposite a playground in the US.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@49.002136,-122.7535906,3a,75y,18.07h,86.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3wYrrTiAnsDeUwsJ2VRWpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Spreadsheet Phil arguing against tax cuts on Andrew Neil - must be joining the Lib Dem’s soon ?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Approximately the same as TSE eating a pineapple pizza.
    Funnily I was at a New York pizza joint yesterday lunchtime, and had to veto several of the pizza options I fancied because they had added pineapple to the offering
    How can you survive in such a country?
    You mean they've gone "ananas"?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Omnium said:

    He [Pete Buttigieg]’s certainly the strongest contender under the age of 70.

    This is a pretty damning indictment of the quality of the Democratic field that their best candidate who is not of an age that would normally be well into retirement, is no more than the mayor of a town in Indiana.
    I think its rather good. You could have Chelsea Clinton and Hunter Biden - they've got great CVs.

    I've blown my cash on this, but for precisely these sort of reasons I'd backed Gabbard.

    I'd quite like to know how to pronounce Buttigieg's name. We may need to know.
    Gabbard was really wooden yesterday. I had high hopes for her, but she seriously disappointed me.
  • Options
    MuninMunin Posts: 7

    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    No. They reflect received wisdom of those prepared to stake money on such matters. As such they reflect the prejudices, blind spots and hopes of that unrepresentative group.
    Thanks Alastair, I'm angling towards that conclusion but thought if anyone knew of evidence to the contrary they'd be on this forum!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
    Our smart meter doesn’t display, due to crap internet service. Can’t be bothered to do anything about it as it’s the fourth time it’s gone awol. Reported it three time’s; had enough.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,616
    "Will Spain be held together by force?
    Madrid's brutal response to Catalan separatists is typical of a country forged by violence
    BY JASON WEBSTER"

    https://unherd.com/2019/10/will-spain-be-held-together-by-force/
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    If we're going to remain can we at least give Northern Ireland to the Irish ? Half of them want out anyway and the other half elect some of the most unlikeable politicians in the western world.
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    ydoethur said:

    spudgfsh said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
    that's how electricity meters should work with energy generation surely
    Alas, no. They should only run forwards.
    but if they ran in both directions you could be charged actual use of electricity when you use more than you generate or given a payment when using less.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    One more day of fine dining in NYC and I shall be aboard the good ship Queen Mary and mostly off the internet. What's the betting it will be resolved by the time I reach Southampton?

    Not fine dining but I love a Jackson Hole....
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
    You can follow Avenue 0 on Google Streetview and consider how plausible the original story was. It's nondescript farming country - not exactly a tourist destination. You could just about shoot the ditch in a 4x4 with forethought. Swerving to avoid a squirrel doesn't seem plausible.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    He [Pete Buttigieg]’s certainly the strongest contender under the age of 70.

    This is a pretty damning indictment of the quality of the Democratic field that their best candidate who is not of an age that would normally be well into retirement, is no more than the mayor of a town in Indiana.
    I think its rather good. You could have Chelsea Clinton and Hunter Biden - they've got great CVs.

    I've blown my cash on this, but for precisely these sort of reasons I'd backed Gabbard.

    I'd quite like to know how to pronounce Buttigieg's name. We may need to know.
    Gabbard was really wooden yesterday. I had high hopes for her, but she seriously disappointed me.
    I've not had time to watch the debate, so I'll defer to you. Disappointing then.

    I think/thought she is/was the one Democrat in the race that'd beat Trump.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
    You can follow Avenue 0 on Google Streetview and consider how plausible the original story was. It's nondescript farming country - not exactly a tourist destination. You could just about shoot the ditch in a 4x4 with forethought. Swerving to avoid a squirrel doesn't seem plausible.
    Did seem a bit odd, even for the Yanks.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    spudgfsh said:

    ydoethur said:

    spudgfsh said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’d vote for Pocahontas if I were a Septic.

    Septic? Weren't you a pharmacist?
    I had relatives who lived in homes out in the country, without main drainage!

    And I’ve had sepsis. NOT FUN.

    Not having mains drainage is WONDERFUL. I have a septic tank, it gets emptied every 7 yrs for about £200 that's £25 a year... How much do you pay a year for sewerage?
    TBH not sure; all part of the water charge. Mind you, after we had a water meter fitted some years ago we were charged nothing for about two years; the meter was faulty and stuck on zero. Was quite sorry when the Water Co realised!
    A couple of years ago I had an electricity meter that was faulty. When my solar panels were generating net power, it ran backwards.

    Unfortunately I replaced it with a SMART meter before fully realising what I had.
    that's how electricity meters should work with energy generation surely
    Alas, no. They should only run forwards.
    but if they ran in both directions you could be charged actual use of electricity when you use more than you generate or given a payment when using less.
    That would be the most logical way to reward people for solar panels, and would be cheaper than feed-in tariffs, but unfortunately that is not the way they are supposed to work.
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Oh the irony the amendment tabled by Rees Mogg about NI being in a different customs territory which passed on the original WA could now be an issue .

    The government might need to amend that before any vote otherwise it could make that vote illegal .
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,766
    edited October 2019
    IanB2 said:

    £/$ is a roller coaster today

    Boris's antics these last weeks have added £ to the cost of my trip.
    Holiday money?
    Holiday money??????

    Oh, @IanB2, you think you know exchange rate pain? What you think of as pain is merely a shadow. Pain has a face: and I have such sights to show you...

    (Foreshadowing... :) )
  • Options
    Yellow_SubmarineYellow_Submarine Posts: 647
    edited October 2019
    New court action from Jolyon Maughan. Even as an uber Remainer I don't understand it. The WAIB can repeal the restrictions he's referring to. We'll see but it has a bridge too far feel to it.
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    As predicted

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50067575


    A British family detained in the US after crossing the border from Canada intentionally entered the country illegally, officials have said.
    They said the vehicle was captured on video "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to enter the US.
    Two adults in the vehicle had previously been denied travel authorisation to the US, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said.

    Travellers gonna travel..

    The back story suggests the Brits may not have been as innocent as first impressions might suggest. They had previously applied for ESTAs but been rejected. The car was very full (eight occupants, I read somewhere). And its movements were tracked carefully by the US authorities and appear to have been pretty deliberate.
    You can follow Avenue 0 on Google Streetview and consider how plausible the original story was. It's nondescript farming country - not exactly a tourist destination. You could just about shoot the ditch in a 4x4 with forethought. Swerving to avoid a squirrel doesn't seem plausible.
    Did seem a bit odd, even for the Yanks.
    Their treatment may have been harsh by British standards. But *if* they compounded their error by telling a pack of lies it's easier to understand. The Yanks have a wonderful word - scofflaw - which we could do with over here.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited October 2019
    BETTING POST TIP: US ELECTIONS

    I was going to post this earlier today but was out, so here goes. This is for those interested in fixed odds.

    If you think Pete Buttigieg is going to be the Democratic nominee then you're presumably tempted by the 8/1 currently on offer from Ladbrokes.

    But wait a moment.

    If you scroll down you'll see the following two specials:

    Trump to beat Buttigieg 25/1
    Buttigigieg to beat Trump 25/1 (was 33/1 this morning)

    So this post assumes you think Buttigieg is going to get the nomination. If so, you're then gambling on whether Trump is likely to be impeached prior to November next year. If he's not then these 25/1 bets are much better than the current 8/1 and well worth the few extra months wait.

    I'd say the 25/1 looks like a good bet. And, dare I say it, an obvious arb. Bet on both and it's a winner.
  • Options
    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    Jonathan said:

    Sorry, what Netflix show is this?

    I’m willing to bet they televise all of this one day. The material is just too good.

    The only question is whether filmmakers (dress left) can make it objectively enough to appeal to both sides.
  • Options
    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    TGOHF2 said:
    one question, why?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    TGOHF2 said:
    I'm with Yellow Submarine on this one, I don't quite understand from his description why the Withdrawal Bill would not deal with any contraditions with other legislation - what prevents parliament from indicating it is happy with the new WA (if there is one)? The bill giving effect to that will come later.

    Given the unlikelihood of any WA getting passed, it might be better to let it get voted down than quibble about whether parliament can even consider it, the same as it would have been simpler for the government to seek parliamentary approval for A50 being triggered, since they would always have done so, rather than be forced to do it.
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    spudgfsh said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    one question, why?
    He’s making loadsamoney out of it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    A joke

    A Scotsman walked into a pub... (there is usually an Englishman and an Irishman in this joke but they're still in the World Cup.)

    Careful, the Nits aren’t known for their playful sense of humour.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    BETTING POST TIP: US ELECTIONS

    I was going to post this earlier today but was out, so here goes. This is for those interested in fixed odds.

    If you think Pete Buttigieg is going to be the Democratic nominee then you're presumably tempted by the 8/1 currently on offer from Ladbrokes.

    But wait a moment.

    If you scroll down you'll see the following two specials:

    Trump to beat Buttigieg 25/1
    Buttigigieg to beat Trump 25/1 (was 33/1 this morning)

    So this post assumes you think Buttigieg is going to get the nomination. If so, you're then gambling on whether Trump is likely to be impeached prior to November next year. If he's not then these 25/1 bets are much better than the current 8/1 and well worth the few extra months wait.

    I'd say the 25/1 looks like a good bet. And, dare I say it, an obvious arb. Bet on both and it's a winner.

    I think the 8-1 on Buttigieg is about right. I think the 15 or 16 he was on yesterday on Betfair was too generous.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    New court action from Jolyon Maughan. Even as an uber Remainer I don't understand it. The WAIB can repeal the restrictions he's referring to. We'll see but it has a bridge too far feel to it.

    Neither do it.

    It looks desperate.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    Andy_JS said:

    "Will Spain be held together by force?
    Madrid's brutal response to Catalan separatists is typical of a country forged by violence
    BY JASON WEBSTER"

    https://unherd.com/2019/10/will-spain-be-held-together-by-force/

    Madrid don’t muck about.

    By their standards Sturgeon would already be in jail and we’d have truckloads of police on the streets of Glasgow and Dundee.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019
    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection? I'd say they're much more likely to vote for the deal than against.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    Danny565 said:

    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection?
    Boris would be very well advised to epitomise magnanimity over that.

    They rebelled over No Deal, and he wanted to seriously threaten it to get a Deal, so the rationale will have expired if a Deal is secured. Readmission (no hard feelings) would be conditional on voting for it.

    Plus, he needs the votes and the unity.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,766
    isam said:

    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    Spectacular failures in the last few big events, right enough, along with the polling. The two are probably linked I’d say
    Pretty much. Betting markets act as a datagatherer, taking in sources and reaching a consensus. This enables them to discard rogue polls and are hence SLIGHTLY better at predicting who will get the most votes. But "slightly better" is not the same as "good".

    In the noughties academics were pretty solid in saying they were good, but since the post 2014 problems a slight reappraisal has taken place. There are many good academics who have written on the subject: Christopher Wliezen, Will Jennings, there's quite a list. But academic debate did rather get bogged down as wo whether adjusted polls beat adjusted bets.

    One academic that springs to mind is Leighton Vaughan Williams: if you Google him and "House Of Lords" you can get the testimony he gave regarding political betting to the enquiry.

    One thing I will say: the further away one is from "most votes", the more unreliable indicators become. So "most votes" beats "most seats" beats "overall majority" beats "government formation", for example.

    There is also the question on how exactly do you judge the accuracy of a probabilistic prediction, which is a whole subject in itself... :(
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection? I'd say they're much more likely to vote for the deal than against.
    I would expect it to be the other way round.

    The whip will only be restored to rebel conservatves who vote for the deal

    Mind you, I am not convinced there will be a deal to vote on this weekend
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2019
    TGOHF2 said:
    Hahah parody account stuff.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Danny565 said:

    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection? I'd say they're much more likely to vote for the deal than against.
    Greening is also not standing again.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection? I'd say they're much more likely to vote for the deal than against.
    I would expect it to be the other way round.

    The whip will only be restored to rebel conservatves who vote for the deal

    Mind you, I am not convinced there will be a deal to vote on this weekend
    Well, that was what I meant, they might be waiting for a concrete, public guarantee that they get the Whip back if they vote for the deal.

    Without that guarantee, it's not a very attractive offer to them to say "even if you vote for this sub-optimal deal, your political career is still over".
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited October 2019
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Munin said:

    Sorry folks, I've asked this question twice already but not received a response and I'm really interested to know the answer.

    A previous PB post showed just how bad betting markets have been at predicting important political events, like Trump and Brexit.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    Is there any solid evidence on the predictive power of political betting markets?

    Spectacular failures in the last few big events, right enough, along with the polling. The two are probably linked I’d say
    Pretty much. Betting markets act as a datagatherer, taking in sources and reaching a consensus. This enables them to discard rogue polls and are hence SLIGHTLY better at predicting who will get the most votes. But "slightly better" is not the same as "good".

    In the noughties academics were pretty solid in saying they were good, but since the post 2014 problems a slight reappraisal has taken place. There are many good academics who have written on the subject: Christopher Wliezen, Will Jennings, there's quite a list. But academic debate did rather get bogged down as wo whether adjusted polls beat adjusted bets.

    One academic that springs to mind is Leighton Vaughan Williams: if you Google him and "House Of Lords" you can get the testimony he gave regarding political betting to the enquiry.

    One thing I will say: the further away one is from "most votes", the more unreliable indicators become. So "most votes" beats "most seats" beats "overall majority" beats "government formation", for example.

    There is also the question on how exactly do you judge the accuracy of a probabilistic prediction, which is a whole subject in itself... :(
    Yeah I guess the same would be true of “to be placed” beating “winner” beating “forecast” beating “tricast” in a horse race. If the fundamentals are wrong, the derivatives get less accurate at each step?

  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    TGOHF2 said:
    Hahah parody account stuff.
    He’s arguing the Withdrawal Agreement would breach a law passed by the ERG to prevent a soft Brexit
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    Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    It is pronounced BOOT-UH-JEDGE for those asking.
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    justin124 said:

    Danny565 said:

    justin124 said:

    From his comments to Andrew Neil, it appears far from certain that Philip Hammond will vote for Johnson's Deal. Others such as Gauke and Greening might well take a similar view.

    Justine Greening didn't even vote for May's deal, so she'll definitely be a no.

    I guess Hammond and co might be waiting for guarantees of getting the Whip back and reselection? I'd say they're much more likely to vote for the deal than against.
    Greening is also not standing again.
    It is ok Justin, she will vote against unless it comes with a referendum attached

    However, it looks increasingly likely the EU will grant only a short extension and certainly not long enough to organise a referendum. Indeed there are EU countries, France among them, who do not want an anti EU country in the EU and the UK is top of that list
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