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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first morning of the official campaign period in three Twe

SystemSystem Posts: 11,016
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first morning of the official campaign period in three Tweets

Not the finest hour for these two senior Tories. I'm sure their opponents on December 12th will have noticed. https://t.co/m56aDCAJPk

Read the full story here


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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2019
    Apparently Tory MP Mims Davies is attempting to move from Eastleigh, which voted Leave, to Mid Sussex, which voted Remain.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,262
    edited November 2019
    I cairn not believe it!
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    I'm not sure how much will register just yet. Lots of things that ought to be important turn out not to be.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
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    If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,589
    edited November 2019
    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    MPs in Cabinet and across parliament have been resigning all over the show for months - not sure the Cairns stuff will have any cut-through.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    I'm not sure how much will register just yet. Lots of things that ought to be important turn out not to be.

    I also wonder if Tory gaffes hogging the headlines are better than letting Corbyn pick up any momentum and give his speeches a wide audience. No one will now hear what he had to say today because Cairns and Boris have the headlines.
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    Are those Ipsos-MORI ratings the ones from their end of October poll?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.

    Is this a competition as to which party can have the most awful start to the campaign?
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    The tories are having such a bad election campaign they are 17 points head of rivals who are pretty divided, with leadership that the pollster says is dropping in popularity.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited November 2019
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Tory MP Mims Davies is attempting to move from Eastleigh, which voted Leave, to Mid Sussex, which voted Remain.

    She should be rebuffed without a second’s thought. Doing a chicken run and deserting your constituents is unpardonable (with the sole exception if the seat is fundamentally altered/abolished through boundary changes....and even then).
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    AndyJS said:

    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.

    Is this a competition as to which party can have the most awful start to the campaign?
    Corbyn having his Howard Flight moment
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Are those Ipsos-MORI ratings the ones from their end of October poll?

    I think they are.
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    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.

    She was only selected 10 days ago.
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,589
    edited November 2019
    AndyJS said:

    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.

    Is this a competition as to which party can have the most awful start to the campaign?
    The local CLP selected her, but HQ want to impose one of the losing candidates (Keir Morrison).

    Top work.
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    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Brom said:

    I'm not sure how much will register just yet. Lots of things that ought to be important turn out not to be.

    I also wonder if Tory gaffes hogging the headlines are better than letting Corbyn pick up any momentum and give his speeches a wide audience. No one will now hear what he had to say today because Cairns and Boris have the headlines.
    I think it’s optimistic to suggest that a tactic of dominating the news cycle by being completely crap in a variety of creative ways is better than allowing your opponents’ message airtime - but we are in unusual times so maybe it will come to be seen as a genius move by political students in the future.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,915
    It doesn't look great but there's nothing here that'll affect the voter a la Dementia tax.

    Tories dealing with their messes quickly it seems.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103
    I am expecting a LibDem poster saying "Jo Swinson 13% more popular than Boris Johnson" and on the microdot attached "when Don't Knows see how wonderful she is"........
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    Is this the first time Boris has been in positive net approval territory?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103
    Is that a legally binding contract, Nigel?

    No?

    So just like a manifesto then......
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
    Doubt many voters in Wales outside the Tories know who he is or what he was
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    AndyJS said:

    Sally Gimson, the Lab candidate for Bassetlaw, has been forced to stand down.

    Is this a competition as to which party can have the most awful start to the campaign?
    Genuine question - aside from partisans who will always be convinced that their opponents are having an awful campaign, is anyone other than the Tories really having a bad time of it? A few candidates standing down after a rushed selection process is embarrassing but nothing out of the ordinary; yesterday’s issues for the Conservative campaign were on an unusual level. What else is going on in the Labour and Lib Dem campaigns that qualifies as ‘awful’?

    This isn’t to minimise the polling for Labour which is, well, minimal, but thinking of the campaign specifically it looks kind of ok as far as I can see.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
    Just have Boris announce he is going to look again at the tidal lagoons if elected - and is minded to make Wales the first country in the world powered by waves....
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,527
    Polruan said:

    Brom said:

    I'm not sure how much will register just yet. Lots of things that ought to be important turn out not to be.

    I also wonder if Tory gaffes hogging the headlines are better than letting Corbyn pick up any momentum and give his speeches a wide audience. No one will now hear what he had to say today because Cairns and Boris have the headlines.
    I think it’s optimistic to suggest that a tactic of dominating the news cycle by being completely crap in a variety of creative ways is better than allowing your opponents’ message airtime - but we are in unusual times so maybe it will come to be seen as a genius move by political students in the future.
    TBF, it worked like a charm for Trump, for a while.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Our campaign start has been sub-optimal no question.

    The best I can say is that i'd rather it happen at the start and give people the wake up call to sort themselves out for the rest of the campaign than it happen with a week to go.

    Hopefully voters aren't fully focused yet.
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    I am expecting a LibDem poster saying "Jo Swinson 13% more popular than Boris Johnson" and on the microdot attached "when Don't Knows see how wonderful she is"........

    Maybe "59% of voters are not dissatisfied with Swinson, compared to 54% for Johnson and 25% for Corbyn. Only Swinson can defeat Johnson..."
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    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.
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    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Pulpstar said:

    It doesn't look great but there's nothing here that'll affect the voter a la Dementia tax.

    Tories dealing with their messes quickly it seems.

    Exactly - I'd take a thousand JRM interviews over a single Dementia Tax.

    If "Tory gaffes" drowns out Labour's enormo-bribes in the media it could even prove to be a net positive for the blue team! :lol:
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    LOL nearly as many unsatisfied with Swinson as with Boris despite there also being so many Don't Knows with Swinson.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,527

    Is that a legally binding contract, Nigel?

    No?

    .....
    No - more of a Gingrich type contract.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,416
    According to Wkipedia, Sally Gimson (Lab Bassetlaw candidate) 's husband briefly worked as a Conservative Party researcher and wrote for the Spectator and The Telegraph. He has also written a book on Bojo. I know people can have spouses with different political views, but this doesn' t sound like an identikit Corbynist candidate.
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    marke09 said:

    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
    Doubt many voters in Wales outside the Tories know who he is or what he was
    They may know the SOS as the roll features lots of Wales news channels and local media as decisions affect made people in Wales and are reported on
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,992
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    JohnO said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Tory MP Mims Davies is attempting to move from Eastleigh, which voted Leave, to Mid Sussex, which voted Remain.

    She should be rebuffed without a second’s thought. Doing a chicken run and deserting your constituents is unpardonable (with the sole exception if the seat is fundamentally altered/abolished through boundary changes....and even then).
    She should read what happened in Aberdeen South where some decades ago the sitting Tory decamped to a safer seat which he promptly lost only to see his successor hold the seat he abandoned!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.

    I do remember us Tories feeling in 1987 that it was all going horribly wrong....

    That said, all Tory campaigns seem to get blasted as shite. It is partly a media looking to make a Tory campaign shite..... If Channel 4 say we're having a so-so camapaign, it will mean Boris has a majority of 250!
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Dura_Ace said:
    Well, he is speaking. So duh.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2019
    I said this was much more serious than the Moggster & was probably a resigning matter on pb.com yesterday. So it has come to pass.

    Ross England sounds like a typically arrogant & unpleasant & entitled Tory Boy. I hope this is the end of his political career.

    Alun Cairns is probably a bit unlucky that this has blown up now (I think because the appeal against the original rape case was dismissed last week, and so details are only now becoming public of things that happened many months ago). But, it does look as though Cairns did breach the ministerial code to me. Cairns said he knew nothing, the Judge said he send a letter. Either Cairns is lying or the Judge is lying.

    But, if the Tories want a rapid rebuttal against Labour calls for full disclosure of what happened -- they could point to the extraordinary secrecy regarding the death of Carl Sergeant. This is a huge scandal, no-one knows what happened, it led to a death of an AM and resignation of a First Minister, no report has ever been made public by Welsh Labour.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Welsh Labour voted not to release it.
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    Could also be interpreted as he does not think he is not competent enough to lead a coalition/minority government....
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.

    I do remember us Tories feeling in 1987 that it was all going horribly wrong....

    That said, all Tory campaigns seem to get blasted as shite. It is partly a media looking to make a Tory campaign shite..... If Channel 4 say we're having a so-so camapaign, it will mean Boris has a majority of 250!
    I was travelling quite a bit during the 2017 campaign so may not have an accurate recollection, but my memory was that the narrative started off with Labour having a terrible terrorist-loving nuclear-disarming Diane-Abbott-in-general campaign, and it was only when the Tories tried to combine a presidential-style campaign with simultaneously hiding their candidate away, and then generously threw in the dementia tax, that the narrative shifted. Fair, or am I remembering those happier times with an unjustified rose tint?
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    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    I said this was much more serious than the Moggster & was probably a resigning matter on pb.com yesterday. So it has come to pass.

    Ross England sounds like a typically arrogant & unpleasant & entitled Tory Boy. I hope this is the end of his political career.

    Alun Cairns is probably a bit unlucky that this has blown up now (I think because the appeal against the original rape case was dismissed last week, and so details are only now becoming public of things that happened many months ago). But, it does look as though Cairns did breach the ministerial code to me. Cairns said he knew nothing, the Judge said he send a letter. Either Cairns is lying or the Judge is lying.

    But, if the Tories want a rapid rebuttal against Labour calls for full disclosure of what happened -- they could point to the extraordinary secrecy regarding the death of Carl Sergeant. This is a huge scandal, no-one knows what happened, it led to a death of an AM and resignation of a First Minister, no report has ever been made public by Welsh Labour.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Welsh Labour voted not to release it.

    The Tories are ironically being too nice about these kinds of things. Imagine if the US Republicans had that kind of material to work with!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,527

    marke09 said:

    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
    Doubt many voters in Wales outside the Tories know who he is or what he was
    They may know the SOS as the roll features lots of Wales news channels and local media as decisions affect made people in Wales and are reported on
    I think it a fair bet quite a few more know who he is after today’s media coverage.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Could also be interpreted as he does not think he is not competent enough to lead a coalition/minority government....

    With the febrile atmosphere and open contempt between parties I find it difficult to see how any coalition can be brought together...or indeed how a minority government could possibly function given the decision required on Brexit.

    I can only see us going back to the ballot box in the event of a hung parliament.
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    I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.
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    Jo Swinson going backwards in net satisfaction as voters get to know her more ...
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    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    blueblue said:

    I said this was much more serious than the Moggster & was probably a resigning matter on pb.com yesterday. So it has come to pass.

    Ross England sounds like a typically arrogant & unpleasant & entitled Tory Boy. I hope this is the end of his political career.

    Alun Cairns is probably a bit unlucky that this has blown up now (I think because the appeal against the original rape case was dismissed last week, and so details are only now becoming public of things that happened many months ago). But, it does look as though Cairns did breach the ministerial code to me. Cairns said he knew nothing, the Judge said he send a letter. Either Cairns is lying or the Judge is lying.

    But, if the Tories want a rapid rebuttal against Labour calls for full disclosure of what happened -- they could point to the extraordinary secrecy regarding the death of Carl Sergeant. This is a huge scandal, no-one knows what happened, it led to a death of an AM and resignation of a First Minister, no report has ever been made public by Welsh Labour.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Welsh Labour voted not to release it.

    The Tories are ironically being too nice about these kinds of things. Imagine if the US Republicans had that kind of material to work with!
    There is a lot that goes on in Wales that should be exposed, and it is a pity that both opposition politicians (of all stripes) and the Welsh press are so fecking incompetent.

    Wales is basically run like Goodfellas. We have the made men of Welsh Labour, untouchable.

    Carl Sergeant gets whacked, just like Tommy and Morrie.

    The mobsters attend the funeral, tears in their eyes.
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    Cookie said:

    According to Wkipedia, Sally Gimson (Lab Bassetlaw candidate) 's husband briefly worked as a Conservative Party researcher and wrote for the Spectator and The Telegraph. He has also written a book on Bojo. I know people can have spouses with different political views, but this doesn' t sound like an identikit Corbynist candidate.

    Ah, I have his Boris book, and his survey of past PMs. I'd not made the connection.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330

    If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?

    It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
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    If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?

    It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
    Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,376
    edited November 2019

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Deleted on the grounds of taste and decency.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Labour should be within 3 or 4 points in the next polls.
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    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.

    More 97 I would have said.
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    SunnyJim said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Labour should be within 3 or 4 points in the next polls.
    Like @RichardNabavi I don't see this making any real difference. It's eating up airtime as well, which is no bad thing for the party in the lead.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,915
    Now's the time to sell your story to the redtops if you've been involved with a Tory MP :D
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Terrible start from the tories, but will it matter? If Boris is the good campaigner people say and people are less keen on corbyn then the next week or so should show the tories retain their strong leading position.

    If either of those things are not true then the very high leads from many pollsters are easily cut into and suddenly the narrative is 2017 all over again.

    Its possible.
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    Williamson (Derby North), Hepburn (Jarrow) and Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green) reported as not being endorsed by the NEC

    Williamson and Hepburn are currently suspended from Labour.

    Godsiff lost the trigger ballot for reselection.

    There are 3 other MPs (Osamor, Sharma and Lewell-Buck) who lost the trigger ballot but didn't have time to undergo the open selection. They should learn their fate today too.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    To be fair companies usually have contracts not manifestos 😝
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    Brom said:

    I'm not sure how much will register just yet. Lots of things that ought to be important turn out not to be.

    I also wonder if Tory gaffes hogging the headlines are better than letting Corbyn pick up any momentum and give his speeches a wide audience. No one will now hear what he had to say today because Cairns and Boris have the headlines.
    Yes, whether by accident or design, the blue team is making full use of Lynton Crosby's dead cat tactic. Boris is a fan.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Williamson (Derby North), Hepburn (Jarrow) and Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green) reported as not being endorsed by the NEC

    Williamson and Hepburn are currently suspended from Labour.

    Godsiff lost the trigger ballot for reselection.

    There are 3 other MPs (Osamor, Sharma and Lewell-Buck) who lost the trigger ballot but didn't have time to undergo the open selection. They should learn their fate today too.

    Plus Vaz
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    SunnyJim said:


    Could also be interpreted as he does not think he is not competent enough to lead a coalition/minority government....

    With the febrile atmosphere and open contempt between parties I find it difficult to see how any coalition can be brought together...or indeed how a minority government could possibly function given the decision required on Brexit.

    I can only see us going back to the ballot box in the event of a hung parliament.
    By talking, compromising, negotiating - same way minority administrations have worked the world over. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they are bad, just like majority administrations. The PM is effectively saying he can only lead if he gets a big majority, he is probably right on that, other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    Jo Swinson going backwards in net satisfaction as voters get to know her more ...

    It's not about direction of travel though. As somebody here said recently.....
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Pulpstar said:

    Now's the time to sell your story to the redtops if you've been involved with a Tory MP :D

    I hope Tissue Price was suitably cautious in his postings on pb.com !!

    An indiscreet comment here, a poor comparison there, a few words that can be twisted around ... and he could end up splashed all over the news.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,721
    SunnyJim said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    .

    Labour should be within 3 or 4 points in the next polls.
    If they are going to catch up, then yes. However bear in mind there are two specific groups of pollsters, and they differ on the lead. If the next pollster is one such then such a movement would be misinterpreted, when it's just a house effect.
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    Ah yes. How I could have forgotten about him!

    Williamson (Derby North), Hepburn (Jarrow) and Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green) reported as not being endorsed by the NEC

    Williamson and Hepburn are currently suspended from Labour.

    Godsiff lost the trigger ballot for reselection.

    There are 3 other MPs (Osamor, Sharma and Lewell-Buck) who lost the trigger ballot but didn't have time to undergo the open selection. They should learn their fate today too.

    Plus Vaz
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,721

    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.

    More 97 I would have said.
    I would be very surprised if it was 97. I'm willing to believe 79 or 83.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,721

    blueblue said:

    I said this was much more serious than the Moggster & was probably a resigning matter on pb.com yesterday. So it has come to pass.

    Ross England sounds like a typically arrogant & unpleasant & entitled Tory Boy. I hope this is the end of his political career.

    Alun Cairns is probably a bit unlucky that this has blown up now (I think because the appeal against the original rape case was dismissed last week, and so details are only now becoming public of things that happened many months ago). But, it does look as though Cairns did breach the ministerial code to me. Cairns said he knew nothing, the Judge said he send a letter. Either Cairns is lying or the Judge is lying.

    But, if the Tories want a rapid rebuttal against Labour calls for full disclosure of what happened -- they could point to the extraordinary secrecy regarding the death of Carl Sergeant. This is a huge scandal, no-one knows what happened, it led to a death of an AM and resignation of a First Minister, no report has ever been made public by Welsh Labour.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Welsh Labour voted not to release it.

    The Tories are ironically being too nice about these kinds of things. Imagine if the US Republicans had that kind of material to work with!
    There is a lot that goes on in Wales that should be exposed, and it is a pity that both opposition politicians (of all stripes) and the Welsh press are so fecking incompetent.

    Wales is basically run like Goodfellas. We have the made men of Welsh Labour, untouchable.

    Carl Sergeant gets whacked, just like Tommy and Morrie.

    The mobsters attend the funeral, tears in their eyes.
    It would rather help if, y'know, the Welsh voted them out occasionally... :)
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    viewcode said:

    This feels very like 1987: a decent Labour campaign, Tory jitters, a Tory landslide.

    More 97 I would have said.
    I would be very surprised if it was 97. I'm willing to believe 79 or 83.
    2017 surely? Too many Tory seats for Johnson to resign, too few to govern. Maybe 48:52 in seats?
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    ...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.

    Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?

    They were never going to be elected by the party membership.

    Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.

    We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.

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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    viewcode said:

    blueblue said:

    I said this was much more serious than the Moggster & was probably a resigning matter on pb.com yesterday. So it has come to pass.

    Ross England sounds like a typically arrogant & unpleasant & entitled Tory Boy. I hope this is the end of his political career.

    Alun Cairns is probably a bit unlucky that this has blown up now (I think because the appeal against the original rape case was dismissed last week, and so details are only now becoming public of things that happened many months ago). But, it does look as though Cairns did breach the ministerial code to me. Cairns said he knew nothing, the Judge said he send a letter. Either Cairns is lying or the Judge is lying.

    But, if the Tories want a rapid rebuttal against Labour calls for full disclosure of what happened -- they could point to the extraordinary secrecy regarding the death of Carl Sergeant. This is a huge scandal, no-one knows what happened, it led to a death of an AM and resignation of a First Minister, no report has ever been made public by Welsh Labour.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Welsh Labour voted not to release it.

    The Tories are ironically being too nice about these kinds of things. Imagine if the US Republicans had that kind of material to work with!
    There is a lot that goes on in Wales that should be exposed, and it is a pity that both opposition politicians (of all stripes) and the Welsh press are so fecking incompetent.

    Wales is basically run like Goodfellas. We have the made men of Welsh Labour, untouchable.

    Carl Sergeant gets whacked, just like Tommy and Morrie.

    The mobsters attend the funeral, tears in their eyes.
    It would rather help if, y'know, the Welsh voted them out occasionally... :)
    That is a fair point.

    And do you know, there was one occasion in the recent past when Labour could have failed to form a Government !!

    On 3 May 2007, Labour won 26 of 60 seats. There was an agreement between teh leaders of the three opposition parties, Plaid Cymru, Tories and LibDems to form a Rainbow Alliance Government.

    It didn't happen because the LibDems chickened out at a special conference.

    The LibDems, they never miss an opportunity to let Wales down ...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    PClipp said:

    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
    In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.

    It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt

    What a nasty man he has turned into
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.

    Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2019
    The biggest danger for the Tories is arguably complacency, so from that point of view the more things that go wrong the better, (as long as they're not too serious).
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited November 2019
    Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
    In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.

    It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt

    What a nasty man he has turned into
    Mr M has described himself as a narcissist, I dont think he'll be too worried what anyone else thinks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50184281
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.

    Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.

    We can just speculate pleasantly on the extreme bollocking that Rees-Mogg got from Dom.

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    edited November 2019
    Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
    In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.

    It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt

    What a nasty man he has turned into
    Having them “put down” is less unpleasant, or did you miss that comment?
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    AndyJS said:

    The biggest danger for the Tories is arguably complacency, so from that point of view the more things that go wrong the better, (as long as they're not too serious).

    This is my view.

    There will be a few boots going up ars*s in the Tory campaign team which will hopefully sharpen them up.
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    I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.

    Stuff like Cairns ain't great when (like last night) it leads the TV news. However, I agree most of the stuff we obsess about here and on Twitter isn't going to make a difference to 80pc of voters.

    Couple of things on Cairns:

    1. Will Boris appoint a new SoS? The ministerial/civil service codes are clear that existing ministers continue in post. But other MPs have ceased to be, so appointing one may look a bit weird. I guess asking a junior to step up and leave a consequent vacancy is a possible outcome?

    2. I see Corbyn's calling for him to stand down as a candidate. If I was him, I'd keep shtum till nominations close, then exploit his not-very-firm looking 2k majority!
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    Can't really see the events of this morning making much of a dent on the polls. We need much bigger 'events' than this. The main reason I think that there won't be too much movement in polling comes down to differentials or lack of.

    Brexit - There is a clear choice between the parties that wasn't there in 2017.

    Spending/Economy - There is much less differential than 2017 with all parties promising a spending spree to a degree. In my experience, faced with the prospect of all parties promising to spunk our the financial prosperity of our children and grandchildren, the electorate would probably decide that the tories will go about that in the least irresponsible manner.

    Possible that Labour might benefit from a few LD and GREEN votes peeling off to them with this already indicated in the polls. Can't see TBP hurting anyone disproportionately, given the Brexit fundamentals.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,223
    The media always want to run with the previous story. In 2017 the story was the worst political campaign in history so let's run with that again. The evidence that anyone is listening is, well, mixed at best.

    What we are seeing both in the Tories and indeed Labour is the clearing of at least the doormat of the Augean Stables (which, in fairness, had been cleaned only 30 years earlier) that is the Parliament of 2017. Hopefully there is a lot more of that to come.
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    SunnyJim said:

    ...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.

    Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?

    They were never going to be elected by the party membership.

    Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.

    We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.

    Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,223

    SunnyJim said:

    ...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.

    Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?

    They were never going to be elected by the party membership.

    Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.

    We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.

    Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
    If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
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    a

    Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
    In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.

    It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt

    What a nasty man he has turned into
    Mr M has described himself as a narcissist, I dont think he'll be too worried what anyone else thinks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50184281
    I'm certainly not worried about the opinions of affluent reactionaries who are chortlingly inflicting the most severe act of self-damage that this country has experienced in living memory, while seeking to exploit the opportunities that the disaster will throw up.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    SunnyJim said:

    ...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.

    Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?

    They were never going to be elected by the party membership.

    Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.

    We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.

    Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
    A consensual approach cannot start by predetermining the particular outcome you are aiming for.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,721
    Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    Charles said:

    I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?

    The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.

    Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
    IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
    In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
    The Young Conservatives from the 1980s are on the phone. They'd like a word.
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    I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.

    Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.

    A case of "What can you expect from a pig but a grunt"? Hardly a ringing endorsement of the man.
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    XtrainXtrain Posts: 337
    Pulpstar said:

    Now's the time to sell your story to the redtops if you've been involved with a Tory MP :D

    Remind me is Keith Vaz standing?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Move Parliament to Milton Keynes
    Philippa Perry, psychotherapist"

    https://unherd.com/2019/11/how-to-humanise-westminster/
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    Personally, I like Rory Stewart and could see myself voting for a Tory party with him as leader. However had he been elected leader, around 80-100 MPS would have defected to TBP and we would be facing a more hung parliament that ever.

    Boris won't be long term, but he might get us over a couple of important hurdles that previously looked insurmountable
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,223
    Does anyone know for definite whether Theresa May is standing again? It's not particularly obvious why she would but I have not seen anything to the contrary.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
This discussion has been closed.