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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The spread markets the Tories down a touch but still heading f

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The spread markets the Tories down a touch but still heading for a majority

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  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO
  • Options

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    If they were there wouldn't be any winnings to be made by betting on them. The trick is knowing in what way they're wrong!
  • Options

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    then you will be able to make money.
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    I think the Tories were around 400 with the spreads this time in 2017.
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    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.
  • Options
    camelcamel Posts: 815
    wholly off topic:

    In 1989 Euros the Greens managed 2.3m votes.

    After 30 years of campaigning, and in an era when green issues have come to the fore, culminating in a climate emergency, this year they managed 1.8m votes in the Euros.

    Meanwhile a party campaigning on a relatively minor constitutional issue managed 5.2m votes, two months after being created.

    It must be disheartening to be in green politics. I admire their dogged determination as much as I admire their asceticism. They should try to sign up that Farage fella, though.

  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    edited November 2019
    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
  • Options
    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,597
    edited November 2019
    The Labour candidate for Gordon has quit (she of the anti-Semitic blog posts, I know it's hard to keep track).

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/exclusive-labour-officials-accused-of-covering-up-mp-hopeful-s-antisemitism-1.492144
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019
    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    Thinking back to how bearings bank went down, a fraudster asking for money when declaring profits much less than what was asking for given the money despite no income coming in from what he was selling, that occurred because the people who should have picked up on it weren’t stupid, it was just a new world to them and they didn’t understand it, they were out of their depths in terms of monitoring and auditing it.

    So what’s stopping betting on and getting involved in GE19 from turning out like a Tour de France, when what you thought was fair and heroic turns out to be unfair and illegal?
  • Options

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
    Shadsy and Betfair will not pay out at 320.
  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    edited November 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    Are the LDs happy to support Welsh independence, but opposed to Scottish independence?

    The electoral pact with PC seems to be a little odd.

    Equally are they happy with fiscal irresponsibility on a mind-staggering scale, but going to object to Corbyns slightly less, but still wild and irrational spending plans?

    The electoral pact with the Greens seems to be a little odd.


    Obviously the arguments for having this pact are quite easy to make, but it seems to me that this is a poor choice. in a GE.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,759

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
    Shadsy and Betfair will not pay out at 320.
    Oh for getting purposes you mean.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    edited November 2019
    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    On that topic, does she have an opinion on teaching establishments who have given original nativity a twist having Jasper Dandelion and Horlicks bringing things like Xboxes, and Jesus has come to save the planet from environmental disaster, is that misguided or still pretty much on the right track?
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    FPT:
    Drutt said:

    Conversation in Bristol West pub at lunchtime today:
    Me (looks at news on phone): look LDs aren't standing here [describes pact, standing aside for Greens]
    Me, aside: fuck it's cost me a fiver
    Colleague 1: oh no I was going to vote for them
    Colleague 2: yeah me too
    C1: don't know who to vote for now
    C2: nor do i
    C1: hmm
    C2: oh

    In this year's locals, there were jointly branded leaflets going out in one of the Oxfordshire districts (either South or VoWH, can't remember which) with both Lib Dem and Green logos on, saying that each party endorsed the other. Wouldn't be surprised to see the same in the Unite to Remain seats.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's five minutes since the last major party candidate had to resign, so have any more stood down since then?
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    egg said:

    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    Thinking back to how bearings bank went down, a fraudster asking for money when declaring profits much less than what was asking for given the money despite no income coming in from what he was selling, that occurred because the people who should have picked up on it weren’t stupid, it was just a new world to them and they didn’t understand it, they were out of their depths in terms of monitoring and auditing it.

    So what’s stopping betting on and getting involved in GE19 from turning out like a Tour de France, when what you thought was fair and heroic turns out to be unfair and illegal?

    That's not what happened at Barings.

    He made huge profits on unauthorised trades, then eventually it went bad, then he made it worse by trying to cover the loss.
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    camel said:

    wholly off topic:

    In 1989 Euros the Greens managed 2.3m votes.

    After 30 years of campaigning, and in an era when green issues have come to the fore, culminating in a climate emergency, this year they managed 1.8m votes in the Euros.

    Meanwhile a party campaigning on a relatively minor constitutional issue managed 5.2m votes, two months after being created.

    It must be disheartening to be in green politics. I admire their dogged determination as much as I admire their asceticism. They should try to sign up that Farage fella, though.

    It's always been easier to sell snake oil than genuine remedies.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    I can see the Greens getting two seats (although one is presumably more likely). I don't see how they could get the four seats needed for you to not lose money.
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    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    egg said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    On that topic, does she have an opinion on teaching establishments who have given original nativity a twist having Jasper Dandelion and Horlicks bringing things like Xboxes, and Jesus has come to save the planet from environmental disaster, is that misguided or still pretty much on the right track?
    Isn't that in the Green manifesto? How have you got hold of an early copy? :lol:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited November 2019
    viewcode said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
    PB recently published this magnificent analysis on when the betting markets (including the spreads) get it wrong boy do they get it wrong.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1170798735397412866
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    AndyJS said:

    It's five minutes since the last major party candidate had to resign, so have any more stood down since then?

    No, but great news - Salma Yaqoob is in the running for Birmingham Hall Green. So that will be another scandal.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    And is she a Unionist? I assume she is when in Scotland but not when she's in Wales.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,445

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    then you will be able to make money.
    I think the point is that the over/under is a better forecaster of the most likely result, because the current spread (for smaller parties) effectively also contains a call option.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    viewcode said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
    Someone needs a source or link for a personal opinion?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
    320 would be difficult; I think 321 or 322 would be better.
  • Options
    I’m buying the Conservatives and selling the Lib Dems at current prices. I have,however, moved to Spreadex given that Sporting Index has severely restricted my stakes and are not prepared to move on that.

    You can draw your own conclusions about the ethics of a market-making company with substantial spreads that seeks to deter punters with good track records but who will take large stakes from others.
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    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,759

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
    Shadsy and Betfair will not pay out at 320.
    Oh for getting purposes you mean.
    If you are gusy guying a gottle of geer in Gasinstoke, then yes.
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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,776

    The Labour candidate for Gordon has quit (she of the anti-Semitic blog posts, I know it's hard to keep track).

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/exclusive-labour-officials-accused-of-covering-up-mp-hopeful-s-antisemitism-1.492144

    In retrospect, this sort of trial by Twitter targetting of the SNP after the 2015 landslide now looks like blessing in disguise - any skeletons in the closet would surely have come to light by now.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    rcs1000 said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    then you will be able to make money.
    I think the point is that the over/under is a better forecaster of the most likely result, because the current spread (for smaller parties) effectively also contains a call option.
    It's the difference between mean and median is a better way of saying this.

    A line bet forecasts the median a spread bet forecasts the mean.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited November 2019
    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Don’t forget the tens of tories who wouldn’t sign the no deal pledge that have stood down. Not that they did something wrong but a key contributor to Turnover
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    sarissa said:

    The Labour candidate for Gordon has quit (she of the anti-Semitic blog posts, I know it's hard to keep track).

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/exclusive-labour-officials-accused-of-covering-up-mp-hopeful-s-antisemitism-1.492144

    In retrospect, this sort of trial by Twitter targetting of the SNP after the 2015 landslide now looks like blessing in disguise - any skeletons in the closet would surely have come to light by now.
    Most candidates are good eggs, and the SNP have fewer candidates than most...
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    Facebook: we would let Tories run 'doctored' Starmer video as ad

    Social network says policy of allowing misinformation opens up political debate

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/07/facebook-we-would-let-tories-run-doctored-starmer-video-as-ad
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
    As Mike Reid used to say “runaround” before it’s too late.
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    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north
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    sarissa said:

    The Labour candidate for Gordon has quit (she of the anti-Semitic blog posts, I know it's hard to keep track).

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/exclusive-labour-officials-accused-of-covering-up-mp-hopeful-s-antisemitism-1.492144

    In retrospect, this sort of trial by Twitter targetting of the SNP after the 2015 landslide now looks like blessing in disguise - any skeletons in the closet would surely have come to light by now.
    The SNP seems to have sharpened up on this since the selection of the disastrous Neil Hay (Paco McSheepie).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32433723

    It all looks a bit mild now, compared to the running open sewer of politics circa 2019.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,759

    viewcode said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
    PB recently published this magnificent analysis on when the betting markets (including the spreads) get it wrong boy do they get it wrong.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/10/when-the-betting-markets-got-it-wrong/

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1170798735397412866
    It is a magnificent article. Indeed, PB publishes many magnificent articles. If only there was a way I could rank my choices and choose the one that gave the best option... :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Actually the mid price of the spreads says the Tories will not win a majority, for betting purposes the line they have to reach is 326.

    320 does it in reality though doesn't it?
    320 if Flint and Zadrozny are elected I reckon.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    then you will be able to make money.
    I think the point is that the over/under is a better forecaster of the most likely result, because the current spread (for smaller parties) effectively also contains a call option.
    It's the difference between mean and median is a better way of saying this.

    A line bet forecasts the median a spread bet forecasts the mean.
    That is a more elegant way of saying it!
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Ave_it said:

    egg said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    On that topic, does she have an opinion on teaching establishments who have given original nativity a twist having Jasper Dandelion and Horlicks bringing things like Xboxes, and Jesus has come to save the planet from environmental disaster, is that misguided or still pretty much on the right track?
    Isn't that in the Green manifesto? How have you got hold of an early copy? :lol:
    Ave It! 😆
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,759
    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
    Someone needs a source or link for a personal opinion?
    Ah, it was IMHO. I didn't notice. Curse this newfangled internet thing!
  • Options

    Facebook: we would let Tories run 'doctored' Starmer video as ad

    Social network says policy of allowing misinformation opens up political debate

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/07/facebook-we-would-let-tories-run-doctored-starmer-video-as-ad

    Yeah nothing improves political debate quite like a load of lies. Social media is killing democracy.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    135 seats could be enough for Jo Swinson to enter Downing Street.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854

    I’m buying the Conservatives and selling the Lib Dems at current prices. I have,however, moved to Spreadex given that Sporting Index has severely restricted my stakes and are not prepared to move on that.

    I've not had any problem with Sporting Index but I'm a small player and a fairly new customer. My main spread market is distances at race meetings - some courses lend themselves to wide margin winners under particular conditions and others don't.

    As far as the 2019 GE is concerned, I'm on a BUY of Conservative seats at 325. As I've said here before, I think as a contest it's already over and the question is whether the Conservatives win big or very big. Obviously I hadn't bargained on the campaigning ineptitude of CCHQ but Labour are worse so I see very little downside at 325 but if the Conservative share starts to collapse I'd cash out.

    I really don't know about Labour and suspect the spread of 210-218 isn't far off the truth. I agree the LD seat total looks like a SELL at 42 but a couple of constituency polls and the strong targeting makes me think the Party could easily end up in the mid 30s so the downside is there and the upside may not be much.

    I don't know enough about Scotland or Wales to make even an uninformed bet
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2019
    Let's remind ourselves of Labour's 1983 manifesto:

    "Our approach is different. We will expand the economy, by providing a strong and measured increase in spending. Spending money creates jobs. Money spent on railway electrification means jobs, not only in construction, but also in the industries that supply the equipment - as well as faster and better trains. If we increase pensions and child benefits, it means more spending power for the elderly and for parents, more bought in shops, more orders for goods, and more jobs in the factories. More spending means that the economy will begin to expand: and growth will provide the new wealth for higher wages and better living standards, the right climate for industry to invest, and more resources for the public services.

    ..........

    But the scale of borrowing will not be nearly as great as the increase in spending. Spending generates new income and new savings. As the economy recovers we shall be able to spend less on keeping people unemployed. And when people get jobs they will also pay income tax and spend more on goods which are taxed. Last year benefit payments, and tax revenues foregone - because of unemployment - cost the nation some £17,000 million. There are also important savings to be made by cancelling the present government 5 massive expenditure programmes on Trident and on PWR nuclear reactors."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml
  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    AndyJS said:

    135 seats could be enough for Jo Swinson to enter Downing Street.

    More chance of Watford going top of the premier league - this week!
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    Thinking back to how bearings bank went down, a fraudster asking for money when declaring profits much less than what was asking for given the money despite no income coming in from what he was selling, that occurred because the people who should have picked up on it weren’t stupid, it was just a new world to them and they didn’t understand it, they were out of their depths in terms of monitoring and auditing it.

    So what’s stopping betting on and getting involved in GE19 from turning out like a Tour de France, when what you thought was fair and heroic turns out to be unfair and illegal?

    That's not what happened at Barings.

    He made huge profits on unauthorised trades, then eventually it went bad, then he made it worse by trying to cover the loss.
    He was declaring imaginary profits, asking for more money, what he claimed he had sold wasn’t bring in income, but that’s not my point, he got away with the crime because trading like that was new way of doing things for old style bank, and those monitoring and auditing in back office were out of their depths for new fangled things.

    Is there fairness and legality in the harvesting and use of data on us, the people, in this election? Are those policing the law around these databases and systems out of their depth in what is going on?
  • Options
    camelcamel Posts: 815

    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
    The candidate in Pudsey's comments were hardly egregious. In the clip I heard she absolutely didn't make the comparison between celebrating the death of Blair and Hitler.

    Overblown.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    viewcode said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    Spreads are not accurate in terms of forecasting IMHO

    Source? Linky? (Genuine question)
    Someone needs a source or link for a personal opinion?
    Ah, it was IMHO. I didn't notice. Curse this newfangled internet thing!
    LOL.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    AndyJS said:

    135 seats could be enough for Jo Swinson to enter Downing Street.

    I'd love to see someone ask Corbyn about his thoughts on propping up the LDs in government.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    edited November 2019
    Ave_it said:

    AndyJS said:

    135 seats could be enough for Jo Swinson to enter Downing Street.

    More chance of Watford going top of the premier league - this week!
    Relegation 6-pointer at Carrow Road for your boys tomorrow evening or is it a case of two bald men fighting over a comb and both will be hosting the Tractor Boys in the Championship next season?
  • Options

    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north

    Only on high ground still. Rain and wind is a greater threat in December than snow. There are a number of flooding incidents closing train lines today, for example. The ground is saturated in many places.
  • Options
    egg said:

    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    In 2015, not very.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Facebook: we would let Tories run 'doctored' Starmer video as ad

    Social network says policy of allowing misinformation opens up political debate

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/07/facebook-we-would-let-tories-run-doctored-starmer-video-as-ad

    Yeah nothing improves political debate quite like a load of lies. Social media is killing democracy.
    Social media certainly having impact on society, culture, politics and democracy. Rather like those who stood on bridge at Chernobyl to watch the fire, maybe we don’t appreciate at the time what is happening to us.
  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    No its a Labour of love!

    Or is it a CON of love? :lol:
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    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    stodge said:

    Ave_it said:

    AndyJS said:

    135 seats could be enough for Jo Swinson to enter Downing Street.

    More chance of Watford going top of the premier league - this week!
    Relegation 6-pointer at Carrow Road for your boys tomorrow evening or is it a case of two bald men fighting over a comb and both will be hosting the Tractor Boys in the Championship next season?
    Hello Stodge - we are both down, hopefully we can avoid finishing bottom.

    Yes Ipswich next season normally we beat them!

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    @Stodge - re winning distances....

    My apologies if it's telling granny how to suck eggs but I do hope you have in your notebook 'Buy WDs at Fakenham when going heavy'.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north

    Hope not. I’m at a mega lash wedding in Richmond.
  • Options

    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north

    Hope not. I’m at a mega lash wedding in Richmond.
    Forecast for north and Scotland
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    Exiting the stage with dignity is a skill that some people fail to master.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    PClipp said:



    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?

    It's all they have, my friend. Getting on to areas like policy and Boris's record in Government and the record of the Government since 2017 isn't what they want to talk about.

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    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    I wasn't aware of that but I had noticed a sharp increase in the number of childish remarks about her.

    Do they really pay people to do that kind of thing?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is how Jo Swinson could enter Downing Street with 135 seats:

    Con 310
    LD 135
    Lab 130
    SNP 50
    PC 5
    Grn 1
    Ind 1
    NI 18
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    AndyJS said:

    Let's remind ourselves of Labour's 1983 manifesto:

    "Our approach is different. We will expand the economy, by providing a strong and measured increase in spending. Spending money creates jobs. Money spent on railway electrification means jobs, not only in construction, but also in the industries that supply the equipment - as well as faster and better trains. If we increase pensions and child benefits, it means more spending power for the elderly and for parents, more bought in shops, more orders for goods, and more jobs in the factories. More spending means that the economy will begin to expand: and growth will provide the new wealth for higher wages and better living standards, the right climate for industry to invest, and more resources for the public services.

    ..........

    But the scale of borrowing will not be nearly as great as the increase in spending. Spending generates new income and new savings. As the economy recovers we shall be able to spend less on keeping people unemployed. And when people get jobs they will also pay income tax and spend more on goods which are taxed. Last year benefit payments, and tax revenues foregone - because of unemployment - cost the nation some £17,000 million. There are also important savings to be made by cancelling the present government 5 massive expenditure programmes on Trident and on PWR nuclear reactors."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml

    The days when people spoke in thousands of millions instead of American billions ...
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    egg said:

    Facebook: we would let Tories run 'doctored' Starmer video as ad

    Social network says policy of allowing misinformation opens up political debate

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/07/facebook-we-would-let-tories-run-doctored-starmer-video-as-ad

    Yeah nothing improves political debate quite like a load of lies. Social media is killing democracy.
    Social media certainly having impact on society, culture, politics and democracy. Rather like those who stood on bridge at Chernobyl to watch the fire, maybe we don’t appreciate at the time what is happening to us.
    I go through my Facebook feed and delete anybody that posts politics, it’s not there for that and if any of my ‘friends’ think their rant will change my vote they are mistaken. I lost 50% of my social contact base over the referendum and I’m not going down that road again. Don’t talk about it in social settings, keep gob shut, only actually get involved in process technicalities not policies. Life is, socially,to short to fall out over politics. If people revert to type and make racist or homophobic comments I’ll challenge them but not linkedtopolitics but human values.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854

    @Stodge - re winning distances....

    My apologies if it's telling granny how to suck eggs but I do hope you have in your notebook 'Buy WDs at Fakenham when going heavy'.

    Oh yes - I'm going to have a look at Ffos Las on Sunday. That's another track with large winning distances when it gets really heavy but it's not wet enough yet.

    Lingfield is another venue when you can buy distances all day when the ground is Heavy - they go on Tuesday but it's a 6-race card with a Polytrack Bumper so an element of caution advised..
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    egg said:

    egg said:

    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    Thinking back to how bearings bank went down, a fraudster asking for money when declaring profits much less than what was asking for given the money despite no income coming in from what he was selling, that occurred because the people who should have picked up on it weren’t stupid, it was just a new world to them and they didn’t understand it, they were out of their depths in terms of monitoring and auditing it.

    So what’s stopping betting on and getting involved in GE19 from turning out like a Tour de France, when what you thought was fair and heroic turns out to be unfair and illegal?

    That's not what happened at Barings.

    He made huge profits on unauthorised trades, then eventually it went bad, then he made it worse by trying to cover the loss.
    He was declaring imaginary profits, asking for more money, what he claimed he had sold wasn’t bring in income, but that’s not my point, he got away with the crime because trading like that was new way of doing things for old style bank, and those monitoring and auditing in back office were out of their depths for new fangled things.

    Is there fairness and legality in the harvesting and use of data on us, the people, in this election? Are those policing the law around these databases and systems out of their depth in what is going on?
    TSE was succinct in what he said about Barings, and essentially right. Other comments above aren't right, and the original poster is very far from right.

    Of course there's fairness in harvesting data. Everything you see, hear, or feel is available to you to make decisions. If you had an army of scribes stick that in a database then that'd be fine.

    We're just not used to people having total recollection of what happened last night. (Or on the shopping trip, or whether you went for large fries)



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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Andrew Neil asking Nadeem Zadawi on Sky “are you seriously suggesting Mr Corbyn wants wealthy people shot or starved to death?”

    Zadawi answers “you’ll have to ask him”
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    edited November 2019

    I’m buying the Conservatives and selling the Lib Dems at current prices. I have,however, moved to Spreadex given that Sporting Index has severely restricted my stakes and are not prepared to move on that.

    You can draw your own conclusions about the ethics of a market-making company with substantial spreads that seeks to deter punters with good track records but who will take large stakes from others.

    I have no time for SPIN. Bunch of spivs and vipers. It's not only the spread. They also take the markets down when you most need to trade. And they are happy to exploit ambiguity.

    I once got burned by setting a £200 stop-loss, which they didn't adequately explain was by point only and not absolute.

    So I actually lost £420 which they were very aggressive in chasing to collect.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    camel said:

    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
    The candidate in Pudsey's comments were hardly egregious. In the clip I heard she absolutely didn't make the comparison between celebrating the death of Blair and Hitler.

    Overblown.
    It’s an election. Everything will be like an Arm after a flu jab.

    8 years ago on social media they liked a fantastic goal, but that was scored by the evil rivals of the constituency they delighted last week to be selected for, in this febrile bubble once that like is discovered they’re toast. 😏
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    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    Is this for real!? I cant tell anymore.....
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    egg said:

    So these databases the parties harvest and crunch details about us to target us, how do we actually know they are all legal, Does anyone come in to inspect them to sign certificate that they are playing fair, like an MOT?

    How big a crime is it to steal a General Election through breaking the law?

    Thinking back to how bearings bank went down, a fraudster asking for money when declaring profits much less than what was asking for given the money despite no income coming in from what he was selling, that occurred because the people who should have picked up on it weren’t stupid, it was just a new world to them and they didn’t understand it, they were out of their depths in terms of monitoring and auditing it.

    So what’s stopping betting on and getting involved in GE19 from turning out like a Tour de France, when what you thought was fair and heroic turns out to be unfair and illegal?

    It was Barings Bank, and anyone who thinks the board did not know what was going on when they transferred huge amounts to Singapore to cover losses is naive in the extreme. No doubt they were duped (due to incompetent oversight) initially, but then they knew and after failing to recover the position adopted the 2nd Law of Management - the search for the guilty and sacrifice of the fall guy (the 1st Law being that any decision communicated should be sufficiently ambiguous that if it goes well you can take the credit and if badly, the blame can be placed elsewhere - also useful in this case).
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    stodge said:

    @Stodge - re winning distances....

    My apologies if it's telling granny how to suck eggs but I do hope you have in your notebook 'Buy WDs at Fakenham when going heavy'.

    Oh yes - I'm going to have a look at Ffos Las on Sunday. That's another track with large winning distances when it gets really heavy but it's not wet enough yet.

    Lingfield is another venue when you can buy distances all day when the ground is Heavy - they go on Tuesday but it's a 6-race card with a Polytrack Bumper so an element of caution advised..
    Yes, I have Ffffffos in my book too.

    I am sure the traders know all about these places but there seems to be no limit to how heavy the ground can get in Norfolk and Pembrokeshire, and how slowly the horses can come home.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    edited November 2019
    One or two candidates will be way ahead of the pack, because of the combination of the 15% threshold (admittedly at the precinct level) and the monetary costs of being a player.

    Kamala Harris is reducing the size of her operation to focus on Iowa. She's not going to win (or even be top three) in Iowa. Cory Booker is not going to make the December debate.

    After Iowa, there will be at most four candidates left: Biden, Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg. And if Buttigieg doesn't make the top two, it'll be three candidates.

    That pretty much ensures there will be either (a) a clear favourite by the end of Super Tuesday, or (b) a long drawn out head-to-head between two candidates, one from the left wing (Sanders or Warren) and one from moderate one (Biden or Buttigieg).
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited November 2019
    I note that the Liberal Democrats are standing down for the Greens in Cannock Chase.

    I think this is probably for a number of reasons. First off, in 2017 the Greens were ahead of the Liberal Democrats. Admittedly, it was by 815 to 794 but as Churchill said, a majority of one is a majority. Second, the Liberal Democrat organisation round here is only just emerging from years of being effectively moribund. They also hadn’t picked their candidate afaik. Meanwhile the Greens are small, but well-organised, vocal and prominent. They also have in Paul Woodhead a local candidate who will be standing in his third election. Third, the obvious Liberal Democrat targets are all in Birmingham and that is where they will doubtless want to focus local energy (unless they take leave of their senses and target Lichfield and Sutton Coldfield).

    At the same time, I think it’s an error. I would have voted Liberal Democrat without a qualm, but I am almost certainly not going to vote Green, less because of their views than because they have nothing useful to say on a national level. So it is not going to have he effect they hoped.

    It also leaves me with an extremely difficult decision to make.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2019
    Very strange:

    The BBC was apparently happy for Nick Conrad to continue to work for them for 5 years as a radio presenter after his controversial comments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854

    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north

    Here's an early view of the chart for Thursday December 12th at 6pm:

    http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/runs/2019110706/run1m/cfs-0-852.png?06

    This chart will change A LOT in the next five weeks so don't take as gospel. The short term remains cold and unsettled through next week so not much fun for canvassers or deliverers.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    rcs1000 said:

    I can see the Greens getting two seats (although one is presumably more likely). I don't see how they could get the four seats needed for you to not lose money.

    The Bristol one does look hopeful for them
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    IanB2 said:

    Andrew Neil asking Nadeem Zadawi on Sky “are you seriously suggesting Mr Corbyn wants wealthy people shot or starved to death?”

    Zadawi answers “you’ll have to ask him”

    #? Woe, Jeremy Corbyn #?
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited November 2019
    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    SNP & Labourites - esp BJO here for example - have been doing that for weeks haven't they?
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.

    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.


    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    I am sure that dealing with Boris and Jeremy seems very similar to being a primary school teaching assistant - specialising in special needs pupils.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    IanB2 said:

    Andrew Neil asking Nadeem Zadawi on Sky “are you seriously suggesting Mr Corbyn wants wealthy people shot or starved to death?”

    Zadawi answers “you’ll have to ask him”

    Of course not. He’s not a big eater but he wouldn’t starve himself to death.
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    stodge said:

    Weekend

    Here comes the winter weather with snow in the north

    Here's an early view of the chart for Thursday December 12th at 6pm:

    http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/runs/2019110706/run1m/cfs-0-852.png?06

    This chart will change A LOT in the next five weeks so don't take as gospel. The short term remains cold and unsettled through next week so not much fun for canvassers or deliverers.
    You have just added another to the numerous reasons why turnout might be low on election day.
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    AndyJS said:

    Very strange:

    The BBC was apparently happy for Nick Conrad to continue to work for them for 5 years as a radio presenter after his controversial comments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

    That's why Sky News are going big on this today.

    All the 'the BBC are monitoring your internet' tinfoil hat nonsense aimed at Kirsty Strickland should have seen him booted out.

    Sky reporting that it came up in the selection meeting, but he still got the nod.

    One of the other candidates was a female Counterterrorism expert, for goodness' sake. Why not pick her over some two bit shock jock with a history of unwise comments on rape cases?
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019

    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    Is this for real!? I cant tell anymore.....
    No. You won’t find anything like that going on.

    But amidst it all we have PB. It’s early days, but PB is having an excellent election so far, some of the headers have been better than you’ll get in a daily paper, and the banter is fun, informed, informative, and largely respectful so far. 👍🏻

    Though Byronic will be a miss when he goes to Antarctica for the Playgirl shoot 🙁
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    egg said:

    camel said:

    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
    The candidate in Pudsey's comments were hardly egregious. In the clip I heard she absolutely didn't make the comparison between celebrating the death of Blair and Hitler.

    Overblown.
    It’s an election. Everything will be like an Arm after a flu jab.

    8 years ago on social media they liked a fantastic goal, but that was scored by the evil rivals of the constituency they delighted last week to be selected for, in this febrile bubble once that like is discovered they’re toast. 😏
    There was a 12 second gap before she came up with Hitler.

    I like to imagine she was going to say "yeah we had a proper piss up when thatcher died", had second thoughts and conjured up hitler, an individual whose reputation it is literally impossible to traduce.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    PClipp said:

    Ave_it said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC points West has Jo Swinson trying explain why there is a pact with The Greens in Bristol West.
    She can't trust Labour on Remain, but avoided explaining why Greens policies are at variance with Lib Dem values.

    Jo won't have to worry about this in 5 weeks time and she can go back to being a primary school teaching assistant.
    It was a couple of days ago that Tory HQ sent out instructions to Tory workers to get online and make all the disparaging remarks they could about Jo Swinson - no matter how nonsensical. . Have they instructed you to keep going with that particular strategy? And do they pay you for it?
    SNP & Labourites - esp BJO here for example - have been doing that for weeks haven't they?
    Yes they are like all the party bots who religiously post the message of the day from the party they support. Do thetget paid? Noidea
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    I suspect the next one to go will be Mims Davies, the Conservative MP in Eastleigh. Not due to scandal but because she has been changing her mind on what she is doing every other day. She must be so confused that she could even start believing a word Boris says.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    camel said:

    egg said:

    camel said:

    Cookie said:

    Another Labour PPC gone for anti-Semitism. The party is riddled with it.

    So what's that so far? Three for views on the Jews (Cov S, Pudsey and Gordon?) and one for death threats to people deemed insufficiently in favour of transsexuals (Edin SW)? Plus the candidate in Bassetlaw forced out for not being extreme enough? Is that right?
    Are Cov South and Pudsey confirmed binnings, or are they still on the ropes?
    The candidate in Pudsey's comments were hardly egregious. In the clip I heard she absolutely didn't make the comparison between celebrating the death of Blair and Hitler.

    Overblown.
    It’s an election. Everything will be like an Arm after a flu jab.

    8 years ago on social media they liked a fantastic goal, but that was scored by the evil rivals of the constituency they delighted last week to be selected for, in this febrile bubble once that like is discovered they’re toast. 😏
    There was a 12 second gap before she came up with Hitler.

    I like to imagine she was going to say "yeah we had a proper piss up when thatcher died", had second thoughts and conjured up hitler, an individual whose reputation it is literally impossible to traduce.
    edit *traduce controversially.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971
    Just seen the list of remain alliance seats. The LDs standing down in Exeter is fantastic news for Ben Bradshaw. He must be ecstatically happy.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    AndyJS said:

    Very strange:

    The BBC was apparently happy for Nick Conrad to continue to work for them for 5 years as a radio presenter after his controversial comments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

    That's why Sky News are going big on this today.

    All the 'the BBC are monitoring your internet' tinfoil hat nonsense aimed at Kirsty Strickland should have seen him booted out.

    Sky reporting that it came up in the selection meeting, but he still got the nod.

    One of the other candidates was a female Counterterrorism expert, for goodness' sake. Why not pick her over some two bit shock jock with a history of unwise comments on rape cases?
    One of the more broken aspects of our democracy, in a field of stiff competition, is candidate selection.
This discussion has been closed.