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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s Johnson’s bad luck that the floods have happened in Yorks

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s Johnson’s bad luck that the floods have happened in Yorkshire home of many of his GE2019 target seats

Most of our media may not have worked out or care who Boris Johnson really is, but the people of Yorkshire certainly have pic.twitter.com/AZiCKizzVm

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    You can’t trust Boris.
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    Evening all
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited November 2019
    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
  • Options
    In all honesty, I still predict a Hung Parliament.

    I reckon the final result is somewhere around 35% for the Tories, 33% for Labour.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Remember the swing to con caused by tbp not standing will predominantly be piling up in already safe seats.
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    oh come on. This is small beer...

    And we wouldn't want to suspect for one moment that Smithson is doing something that those despised politicians might also do... hedge his bets?
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    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
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    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595
    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
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    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Too soon. Unless the rain cometh again.

    Four weeks to go. Be completely forgotten unless you live there.
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    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    lol - The Tories only really stand paper candidates in some seats anyway. They do next to nothing in those seats but they do send out the free (taxpayer funded) party leaflet via royal mail. The DT is really desperate in their attempts to sell Johnson.

    I have thought it will be interesting to see who buys it when the current owners get shot of it. It would not surprise me if a Russian Oligarch purchases it at a much higher value than the market price! :wink:
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    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    I wish they would desist from landslide talk
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    It's the ComRes
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited November 2019

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    That was with Electoral Calculus, on UNS I make it 37 Tory gains from Labour and 7 Tory losses to the LDs, add in 8 Tory losses to the SNP based on the last Scotland only Panelbase poll (being generous to the SNP, today's YouGov subsample sees just 5 losses) and you get 22 net Tory gains overall making an overall Tory majority of 28
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

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    We should know within a couple of weeks how things are going.

    If Survation - who shows the lowest lead - is indicating a close race, 6 points at the moment in it, with MoE that could be 4 points - then that should be a guage of the overall trend.

    I reckon if within two weeks if the gap is below 8 points, it's squeeky bum time and the Lib Dem vote will almost entirely go to Labour as a tactical vote.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2019

    "Most of our media may not have worked out or care who Boris Johnson really is, but the people of Yorkshire certainly have"

    .... The sleaziest party leader in my lifetime by a country mile.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited November 2019

    In all honesty, I still predict a Hung Parliament.

    I reckon the final result is somewhere around 35% for the Tories, 33% for Labour.

    I do too, though I'm not bullish enough to predict specific percentages.
    Ok, that's a little more definitive, although it does once again prove the lie of many a 'I'll do anything to stop X' comment, since she'll risk either winning a majority next time rather than extract a heavy price for some concession. I know the stakes are high, but no one even being willing to work together is a worrying place to be.
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    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
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    Jonathan Lis doesn't like Boris? Gee there's a newsworthy shock from his prior quotes posted here I would have put him down as a Boris voter ... :/
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    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    I wish they would desist from landslide talk
    Obviously trying to reassure their Left readers that it is still ok to vote Jezza as there is no way he will be PM.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    All part of the climate change issue. When it affects the older population then the parties start to take notice. We are seeing that a bit with the Australian fires and flooding of Venice too.

    The shots of Johnson getting an earful in Yorkshire was big on the BBC 10 o'clock news.
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    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    I wish they would desist from landslide talk
    Obviously trying to reassure their Left readers that it is still ok to vote Jezza as there is no way he will be PM.
    It it's a Hung Parliament, he almost certainly will be. Which is why I've backed him.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
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    https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1194633658772025350

    The man most responsible for Corbyn as possible next PM.
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2019
    FPT

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    I'm sure that the Conservatives would prefer 40% with ComRes to even 42% with YouGov. Until November ComRes was the company giving the smallest lead for the Conservatives. A month ago ComRes were posting Con leads of 4% (Con 33, Lab 29). Two months ago it was a Con lead of 2% (Con 29, Lab 27). They were the last company to have Labour ahead, in July. Now it's a 10% Con lead.

    What's more I don't think that ComRes have the technical capacity to filter out the BXP voting intention option in 317 Con-held seats. If so, unlike the latest YouGov, this poll won't have captured the full impact of the BXP standing down in Con-held seats.
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    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    kle4 said:

    In all honesty, I still predict a Hung Parliament.

    I reckon the final result is somewhere around 35% for the Tories, 33% for Labour.

    I do too, though I'm not bullish enough to predict specific percentages.
    Ok, that's a little more definitive, although it does once again prove the lie of many a 'I'll do anything to stop X' comment, since she'll risk either winning a majority next time rather than extract a heavy price for some concession. I know the stakes are high, but no one even being willing to work together is a worrying place to be.
    Is Swinson an undercover Corbynista? She seems to be doing everything she can to attract con voters and repel lab.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    Yep, that is why dealing with climate change matters. Something Labour, LibDems and Greens need to go big with.

    It is not just about dams and dykes, but also about reforestation, soakaways and building developments away from flood plains.
  • Options

    FPT

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    I'm sure that the Conservatives would prefer 40% with ComRes to even 42% with YouGov. Until November ComRes was the company giving the smallest lead for the Conservatives. A month ago ComRes were posting Con leads of 4% (Con 33, Lab 29). Two months ago it was a Con lead of 2% (Con 29, Lab 27). They were the last company to have Labour ahead, in July. Now it's a 10% Con lead.

    What's more I don't think that ComRes have the technical capacity to filter out the BXP voting intention option in 317 Con-held seats. If so, unlike the latest YouGov, this poll won't have captured the full impact of the BXP standing down in Con-held seats.
    On YouGov the net gain was 1 point right? Which within MoE is potentially no change?

    People assume the BXP goes to the Tories - have these people been to the North?
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    kle4 said:

    In all honesty, I still predict a Hung Parliament.

    I reckon the final result is somewhere around 35% for the Tories, 33% for Labour.

    I do too, though I'm not bullish enough to predict specific percentages.
    Ok, that's a little more definitive, although it does once again prove the lie of many a 'I'll do anything to stop X' comment, since she'll risk either winning a majority next time rather than extract a heavy price for some concession. I know the stakes are high, but no one even being willing to work together is a worrying place to be.
    Is Swinson an undercover Corbynista? She seems to be doing everything she can to attract con voters and repel lab.
    Most marginals are Con/Lib Dem, places like Winchester and Guildford.

    Swinson doesn't need Labour votes, she needs tactical votes.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2019

    https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1194633658772025350

    The man most responsible for Corbyn as possible next PM.

    I think he is just miserable, because he is having to visit the North, and in the winter to boot.
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    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
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    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    Does re-emphasise the austerity narrative though, which is what Corbyn will want
  • Options
    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    edited November 2019

    https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1194633658772025350

    The man most responsible for Corbyn as possible next PM.

    Is there some competition going around to get as many Labour election-losers as possible into one shot?
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited November 2019
    Interesting attempt here, seems they're trying to adjust out house effects a la 538. Not sure this'll work with mid-campaign polling changes, and BXP pulling candidates, but worth a go nevertheless.


    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1194747998884028421
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595

    FPT

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    I'm sure that the Conservatives would prefer 40% with ComRes to even 42% with YouGov. Until November ComRes was the company giving the smallest lead for the Conservatives. A month ago ComRes were posting Con leads of 4% (Con 33, Lab 29). Two months ago it was a Con lead of 2% (Con 29, Lab 27). They were the last company to have Labour ahead, in July. Now it's a 10% Con lead.

    What's more I don't think that ComRes have the technical capacity to filter out the BXP voting intention option in 317 Con-held seats. If so, unlike the latest YouGov, this poll won't have captured the full impact of the BXP standing down in Con-held seats.
    On YouGov the net gain was 1 point right? Which within MoE is potentially no change?

    People assume the BXP goes to the Tories - have these people been to the North?
    We have Schrodingers BXP, simultaneously taking votes off Labour in the former coalfields, but off the Tories elsewhere. Or is it the other way round...

    I remember in 2017 a lot of PBers lazily chalked up former UKIPers to the Tories, and got their fingers burnt.
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    Outgoing European Council President Donald Tusk has urged British voters not to "give up" on stopping Brexit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50413638
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Just got a leaflet from the local LibDems

    No mention of revoke. Multiple references to giving people the final say on Brexit.

    Has the policy changed ?
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    Yep, that is why dealing with climate change matters. Something Labour, LibDems and Greens need to go big with.

    It is not just about dams and dykes, but also about reforestation, soakaways and building developments away from flood plains.
    We agree on that and Boris too talking about it today

    All politicians need to come together to map a path to climate change that is doable and does not catapult the poor into abject poverty
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,890
    kle4 said:


    Ok, that's a little more definitive, although it does once again prove the lie of many a 'I'll do anything to stop X' comment, since she'll risk either winning a majority next time rather than extract a heavy price for some concession. I know the stakes are high, but no one even being willing to work together is a worrying place to be.

    I agree with this. The people vote, MPs are elected and Parliament convenes. The MPs should then somehow work together to run the country. A second General Election in 6 months will see the LD vote collapse, that was exactly why the LDs wanted a coalition with FTP-Bill in 2010.
  • Options
    Andrew said:

    Interesting attempt here, seems they're trying to adjust out house effects a la 538. Not sure this'll work with mid-campaign polling changes, and BXP pulling candidates, but worth a go nevertheless.


    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1194747998884028421

    So to be clear, 40/28 is after adjustment or before adjustment?
  • Options
    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    Yep, that is why dealing with climate change matters. Something Labour, LibDems and Greens need to go big with.

    It is not just about dams and dykes, but also about reforestation, soakaways and building developments away from flood plains.
    We agree on that and Boris too talking about it today

    All politicians need to come together to map a path to climate change that is doable and does not catapult the poor into abject poverty
    We could just build new homes on higher ground...
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    Does re-emphasise the austerity narrative though, which is what Corbyn will want
    Corbyn is toxic and will not be pm
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Outgoing European Council President Donald Tusk has urged British voters not to "give up" on stopping Brexit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50413638

    All they have to do is get Labour to within 4% or so, and dare the LDs to truly not back them in exchange for a referendum. Boom, Remain wins.

    The LDs can say no messing about with a Labour renegotiation, just Remain up against the May deal (since it is less popular), as the price for cooperation.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2019

    https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1194633658772025350

    The man most responsible for Corbyn as possible next PM.

    There are other male culprits. But yes.

    For the woman, it's a close call between Harriet Harman (who pushed Andy Burnham into a choice between resigning or backing her welfare cuts agenda) and Margaret Beckett ("Yes I'll give Jeremy the final nomination needed to get him onto the ballot"). But probably the latter.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    Does re-emphasise the austerity narrative though, which is what Corbyn will want
    Corbyn is toxic and will not be pm
    Unlawful “Fuck Business” Boris has your endorsement.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
    In 2017 the LD vote was weaker at this stage and the LD vote is now much more loyal given Swinson's hard Remain stance in a Brexit election and Corbyn's Brexit dithering
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,890

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    Yep, that is why dealing with climate change matters. Something Labour, LibDems and Greens need to go big with.

    It is not just about dams and dykes, but also about reforestation, soakaways and building developments away from flood plains.
    We agree on that and Boris too talking about it today

    All politicians need to come together to map a path to climate change that is doable and does not catapult the poor into abject poverty
    Yes.

    But why did no politician do any of this in 2005 or 2006 ... or 2009 or 2010 or 2011 or ... 2019. The problems of flooding in England were well known in 2005 independent of whether there is an increased risk due to climate change.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
    Labour can be the tactical choice in current Lab held seats threatened by the Cons, but with the LDs in second place in SE, SW and East England surely it is obviously the tactical choise in many other places.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/labour-tax-plan-could-stop-parents-passing-on-homes-to-kids-10095642/
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited November 2019
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:


    Ok, that's a little more definitive, although it does once again prove the lie of many a 'I'll do anything to stop X' comment, since she'll risk either winning a majority next time rather than extract a heavy price for some concession. I know the stakes are high, but no one even being willing to work together is a worrying place to be.

    I agree with this. The people vote, MPs are elected and Parliament convenes. The MPs should then somehow work together to run the country. A second General Election in 6 months will see the LD vote collapse, that was exactly why the LDs wanted a coalition with FTP-Bill in 2010.
    I imagine they feel trapped - back Corbyn in any way and see a polling drop, obviously they won't enable Brexit Boris, but another snap election sees a high chance of another squeeze, as you say, not least because I doubt Labour would go into yet another GE with an equivocal stance. While they do want to stop Brexit, for the party it would be easier if they did not get the chance and could ride the outrage at it happening, and likely badly, without annoying former Lab or Cons by backing either.

    As we finally saw with the GE being called though, eventually you just run out of road - the cost to stop Brexit might be higher than they'd like, but if they mean what they say they might have no choice.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited November 2019


    So to be clear, 40/28 is after adjustment or before adjustment?

    After. Comres is usually pretty favourable to Labour so that fits. The opposite was true with Kantar a few days back, they adjusted that from 10pts to 4pts (which seems a little much imo, but ymmv)

    You can see some of the innards of the projections at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nUxnVJIFRo9A806IHtkTcd_Cxn1hO4P98nHCnBgeMFI/edit#gid=586083410
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,890
    Foxy said:

    FPT

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    I'm sure that the Conservatives would prefer 40% with ComRes to even 42% with YouGov. Until November ComRes was the company giving the smallest lead for the Conservatives. A month ago ComRes were posting Con leads of 4% (Con 33, Lab 29). Two months ago it was a Con lead of 2% (Con 29, Lab 27). They were the last company to have Labour ahead, in July. Now it's a 10% Con lead.

    What's more I don't think that ComRes have the technical capacity to filter out the BXP voting intention option in 317 Con-held seats. If so, unlike the latest YouGov, this poll won't have captured the full impact of the BXP standing down in Con-held seats.
    On YouGov the net gain was 1 point right? Which within MoE is potentially no change?

    People assume the BXP goes to the Tories - have these people been to the North?
    We have Schrodingers BXP, simultaneously taking votes off Labour in the former coalfields, but off the Tories elsewhere. Or is it the other way round...

    I remember in 2017 a lot of PBers lazily chalked up former UKIPers to the Tories, and got their fingers burnt.
    You have a longer memory than some others on PB.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    From which side?
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,890
    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
    Labour can be the tactical choice in current Lab held seats threatened by the Cons, but with the LDs in second place in SE, SW and East England surely it is obviously the tactical choise in many other places.
    You need to get out on the stump, my friend. Corbyn is loathed...and i mean really loathed, by people. Even by Labour voters.

    It is really difficult to see where Labour is going to get the votes to increase to 35%. And this time Remainers know he is the biggest Brexiteer of them all.

    Like a WW1 general you're fighting the last war...
  • Options
    The latest Northern Ireland polling shows the nationalist vote higher than the unionist vote. Should that actually happen in the GE it would be seismic. The direction of travel is only one way. Johnson’s deal will just hurry it along a little.
    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1194716512411631617?s=21
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?

    The clips played on the radio today had people tell Boris it was about time he turned up - as if he could personally assist - then when asked what was required the locals said actually nothing now, but help was too late in coming (which it always is in these situations).

    Secondly we have very high standards for drainage in this country. The following guide explains the design principles of Sustainable urban drainage systems (SuDS) near to me
    https://www.bristol.gov.uk/documents/20182/34524/West+of+England+sustainable+drainage+developer+guide+section+1/864fe0d2-45bf-4240-95e2-a9d1962a0df9

    Unfortunately world class standards like these are not applicable retrospectively to existing settlements. But if you think the government should be building expensive concrete structures in areas susceptible to flooding which need on-going maintenance and displace flooding downstream so it looks like they are doing something.
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited November 2019
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
    Indeed, it is all about GOTV in the end. This is why I am so sceptical about a winter election. Enthused people will vote; it is the fickle outriders that make or break a parties election. I still suspect a bit of an upset, not a Labour majority but a very well hung parliament.
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
    We had a terrible problem for years until multi million pound groynes were installed which has prevented the flooding. However, the sea is breaking down the sea defences in Old Colwyn creating a real threat that it could break through and take down the Euston - Holyhead main line and the adjacent A55 severing Colwyn Bay from the rest of North Wales and the Irish ferries

    It is very serious and millions are going to have to be found urgently to reconstruct the whole of the sea defences and railway embankment in that area
  • Options
    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    Does re-emphasise the austerity narrative though, which is what Corbyn will want
    Corbyn is toxic and will not be pm
    Unlawful “Fuck Business” Boris has your endorsement.
    Virtually every word out of Corbyn and McDonnell's mouth is "Fuck Business". So I take it you'll never vote for them either?
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    Outgoing European Council President Donald Tusk has urged British voters not to "give up" on stopping Brexit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50413638

    The hidden agenda the EU have been pursuing all along, while purporting to be negotiating in good faith. Now it's out in the open. Good riddance to them and him.

    And, to follow the lead of the United States of America and Trump, another disgraceful intervention in a UK election this time by the President of the aspiring United States of Europe. Maybe he'll clarify and tell us whether we should vote Lab or Lib Dem. Or open up an official EU tactical voting site.
  • Options

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
    Indeed, it is all about GOTV in the end. This is why I am so sceptical about a winter election. Enthused people will vote; it is the fickle outriders that make or break a parties election. I still suspect a bit of an upset, not a Labour majority but a very well hung parliament.
    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1194733920153219073

    5K majority.
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    Andrew said:

    Interesting attempt here, seems they're trying to adjust out house effects a la 538. Not sure this'll work with mid-campaign polling changes, and BXP pulling candidates, but worth a go nevertheless.


    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1194747998884028421

    So to be clear, 40/28 is after adjustment or before adjustment?
    40/30 was ComRes' figure, which was adjusted by 326 to give 40/28
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited November 2019

    Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?

    The clips played on the radio today had people tell Boris it was about time he turned up - as if he could personally assist - then when asked what was required the locals said actually nothing now, but help was too late in coming (which it always is in these situations).

    I'm inclined to agree. I don't expect people in a terrible situation to react any differently, and I'm sure I would do the same, but senior politicians showing up doesn't achieve anything. Outside a complete bungling, would most of us even know what a good response looked like? It's like when they have difficulty selecting Chairs for high profile enquiries and suddenly everyone is an expert on what makes a good choice when I'm sure I'd not be the best at it.

    Nevertheless, someone might get hamstrung by a perceived poor response and shots of angry locals, even if it was ok in the grand scheme of responses, so it still matters in that sense.
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,890

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.

    John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/labour-tax-plan-could-stop-parents-passing-on-homes-to-kids-10095642/
    Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?

    Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
    We had a terrible problem for years until multi million pound groynes were installed which has prevented the flooding. However, the sea is breaking down the sea defences in Old Colwyn creating a real threat that it could break through and take down the Euston - Holyhead main line and the adjacent A55 severing Colwyn Bay from the rest of North Wales and the Irish ferries

    It is very serious and millions are going to have to be found urgently to reconstruct the whole of the sea defences and railway embankment in that area
    +1 We only live on a small island. We have to protect the land we have got given rising levels of sea and incidences of severe weather.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
    You were forecasting the Con and Lab vote shares both in the mid-30s. If the LDs are sub 10% that leaves a massive number of voters unaccounted for.
  • Options
    DUP getting punted in Belfast? It's a possibility

    https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1194751645227331587
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited November 2019

    Outgoing European Council President Donald Tusk has urged British voters not to "give up" on stopping Brexit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50413638

    The hidden agenda the EU have been pursuing all along, while purporting to be negotiating in good faith. Now it's out in the open. Good riddance to them and him.

    And, to follow the lead of the United States of America and Trump, another disgraceful intervention in a UK election this time by the President of the aspiring United States of Europe. Maybe he'll clarify and tell us whether we should vote Lab or Lib Dem. Or open up an official EU tactical voting site.
    I'm confused by this line:

    In a speech, he also said Brexit would likely mark the "real end of the British Empire".

    Aren't we supposed to regard that as a good thing in the modern age? Therefore we should Brexit to ensure it?
  • Options
    I think there's another element at play. People assume Labour won't win hence they'll vote for them anyway.

    Labour manifesto will be out before the first TV debate I would think.

    I suspect Corbyn and Labour's numbers will improve post that. Is there still a majority for "don't know" when choosing party leaders?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    In 2017 the Lib Dem vote was stronger at this stage and went down during the campaign.

    The Lib Dems I think will drop below 10% as it becomes clearer Labour is the tactical choice.

    Anyone looked at the "don't knows" recently? They mostly went to Labour last time, is there 10% of the vote in there?
    Labour can be the tactical choice in current Lab held seats threatened by the Cons, but with the LDs in second place in SE, SW and East England surely it is obviously the tactical choise in many other places.
    You need to get out on the stump, my friend. Corbyn is loathed...and i mean really loathed, by people. Even by Labour voters.

    It is really difficult to see where Labour is going to get the votes to increase to 35%. And this time Remainers know he is the biggest Brexiteer of them all.

    Like a WW1 general you're fighting the last war...
    I want Labour voters to switch to LDs in Tory held seats. Loathing Corbyn helps there.

  • Options
    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/labour-tax-plan-could-stop-parents-passing-on-homes-to-kids-10095642/
    Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?

    Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
    Should help drive quite a few rich Southern Remainers back to the Tories. Nice. :smile:
  • Options
    OK, so far 5 polls this week with field work ending on or since Sunday - average Con lead 10%.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    PaulM said:

    Just got a leaflet from the local LibDems

    No mention of revoke. Multiple references to giving people the final say on Brexit.

    Has the policy changed ?

    The LibDem policy is that the people should have the final say. And the final say is 'revoke'. If necessary, they will have a referendum:

    Should the UK revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU?

    [ ] Yes
    [ ] Definitely
    [ ] Damn Right
    [ ] No, no, not there, it tickles. Ooohhhh hit me with your revoke pledge again.
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.

    John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
    I always wonder if JM got some sympathy votes in 1992 after he was hit in the face with eggs? It is certainly something I remember well.

    On the other side of the coin Harold Wilson famously caught an egg that was thrown at him! Bet Ted Heath wished he could have avoided the person who stubbed a cigarette out on his neck! :wink: Heath won in that election as well but security was not that tight back then.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
    Out of interest can you name where the money for flooding has been found in the South East or London?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods

    Yes. Its bollocks.
    I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes

    It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
    One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.

    John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
    Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
  • Options

    OK, so far 5 polls this week with field work ending on or since Sunday - average Con lead 10%.

    Sounds disasterous - but remember it was 20 points this time last time.

    If Labour can gain about 7 points on average, it's squeeky bum time.

    They can take about 2 points from the Greens, who always get squeezed. 2 points from the Lib Dems (tactical) and some don't knows come back, bit of a youth surge and you can see quite easily how we end up in a Hung Parliament.

    Johnson's strategy is to win the North, I don't think that will happen.

    Apparently he will win Wales too - I remember when May was due to clean up in Wales, didn't Labour gain seats?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
    Indeed, it is all about GOTV in the end. This is why I am so sceptical about a winter election. Enthused people will vote; it is the fickle outriders that make or break a parties election. I still suspect a bit of an upset, not a Labour majority but a very well hung parliament.
    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1194733920153219073

    5K majority.
    Not exactly looking to move forward are they?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,595
    blueblue said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/labour-tax-plan-could-stop-parents-passing-on-homes-to-kids-10095642/
    Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?

    Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
    Should help drive quite a few rich Southern Remainers back to the Tories. Nice. :smile:
    To the LibDems, not the Tories :)
  • Options

    FPT

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    I'm sure that the Conservatives would prefer 40% with ComRes to even 42% with YouGov. Until November ComRes was the company giving the smallest lead for the Conservatives. A month ago ComRes were posting Con leads of 4% (Con 33, Lab 29). Two months ago it was a Con lead of 2% (Con 29, Lab 27). They were the last company to have Labour ahead, in July. Now it's a 10% Con lead.

    What's more I don't think that ComRes have the technical capacity to filter out the BXP voting intention option in 317 Con-held seats. If so, unlike the latest YouGov, this poll won't have captured the full impact of the BXP standing down in Con-held seats.
    On YouGov the net gain was 1 point right? Which within MoE is potentially no change?

    People assume the BXP goes to the Tories - have these people been to the North?
    You're clutching at straws. As John O'Farrell said, in his book that came back to haunt him in Eastleigh, it's the hope that gets you.

    These people aren't assuming anything. They are going on hard polling evidence.
    e.g.
    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Deltapoll-MoS191109.pdf

    Compare Page 1 with Page 5.
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited November 2019
    Foxy said:

    blueblue said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Telegraph saying 110 seat majority for Tories on their new poll.

    No 2017 flashbacks here, nossir.
    Wait till you see the new dementia tax...
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/labour-tax-plan-could-stop-parents-passing-on-homes-to-kids-10095642/
    Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?

    Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
    Should help drive quite a few rich Southern Remainers back to the Tories. Nice. :smile:
    To the LibDems, not the Tories :)
    Not if there’s the slightest whiff Swinson will enable Corbyn in any way.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.

    We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.

    I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.

    How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
    That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
    Indeed, it is all about GOTV in the end. This is why I am so sceptical about a winter election. Enthused people will vote; it is the fickle outriders that make or break a parties election. I still suspect a bit of an upset, not a Labour majority but a very well hung parliament.
    Labour potential voters are enthused by Corbyn?

    LOL right

  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I think there's another element at play. People assume Labour won't win hence they'll vote for them anyway.

    In other words, yet another similarity with 2017?

    It's possible I suppose, but I think the accumulation of the experience of the previous election, Labour's polling numbers creeping up, a less idiotic Tory manifesto and the debates will mean there'll be more scrutiny of Labour's offer this time around - and, presumably, the idea that at least some of it might be implemented (even if Labour can only form a minority Government with the backing of Remain parties) should be taken more seriously by the media.
  • Options

    OK, so far 5 polls this week with field work ending on or since Sunday - average Con lead 10%.

    Sounds disasterous - but remember it was 20 points this time last time.

    If Labour can gain about 7 points on average, it's squeeky bum time.

    They can take about 2 points from the Greens, who always get squeezed. 2 points from the Lib Dems (tactical) and some don't knows come back, bit of a youth surge and you can see quite easily how we end up in a Hung Parliament.

    Johnson's strategy is to win the North, I don't think that will happen.

    Apparently he will win Wales too - I remember when May was due to clean up in Wales, didn't Labour gain seats?
    You do seem to be getting a bit carried away with the hope the electorate will see Corbyn as PM but trust me, he will never be PM
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Foxy said:

    Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
    Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.

    There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
    The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
    Out of interest can you name where the money for flooding has been found in the South East or London?
    Look on the environmental agency website should you want the figures.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    PaulM said:

    Just got a leaflet from the local LibDems

    No mention of revoke. Multiple references to giving people the final say on Brexit.

    Has the policy changed ?

    The LibDem policy is that the people should have the final say. And the final say is 'revoke'. If necessary, they will have a referendum:

    Should the UK revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU?

    [ ] Yes
    [ ] Definitely
    [ ] Damn Right
    [ ] No, no, not there, it tickles. Ooohhhh hit me with your revoke pledge again.
    You missed

    [ ] None of the above (T&C apply)*


    * (in tiny print) Revoke.
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    Is that right? I thought it was 10 points?
  • Options
    The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.

    There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.

    Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".

    Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
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