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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited December 2019
    The SNP is the answer to the idea that it was Brexit alone that caused Labour to lose.

    This is all about Corbyn, Milne and their cult.
  • Labour moderates can at least be happy this has killed the left project. Imo unfairly - Corbyn's favoured policies poll well, and his scandals etc were already major news stories in 2017. Difference is he was railroaded into supporting a second referendum which goes down like cold sick. If he'd have stuck to 'respect the referendum, but here is a better approach to making a deal' Labour would have done better I think.

    We're learning what 2016 should have taught. There is a majority for Brexit. We went from understanding this and accepting it in the immediate aftermath, to allowing ourselves to be deluded into thinking a second ref would go differently. We deluded ourselves into thinking the first ref hadn't counted because of the bus/legalistic stuff from Jolyon/'Russian bots' etc etc.

    My worry is we'll either go full on Blairite Europhile or Phil Woolasy pro-Brexit reactionary from here, rather than Corbyn's actually moderate position on Brexit...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    DavidL said:

    Esher and Walton

    bet365 Cons 1/2
    Skybet LibDem 7/2

    take your pick

    Given the trends tonight that is surely free money?
    We haven't seen any Remainy seats in the South East report yet, but I'd have thought the Cons would be unlikely to lose there.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    I'm about to have nice chilled glass of Sancerre and some Camembert.
    I was given a hamper from a place in Arundel today that has both of those items inside
  • Turnout looks down 3% on announcements so far? Or is it regional?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited December 2019
    Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Chingford and Chipping Barnet predicted to stay Tory, but Putney goes Labour. Wimbledon on a knife-edge.
  • Yokes said:

    North Down Update : The Alliance Party (Stephen Farry) Vote Count Will Increase Immensely.

    There Is A Possibility There Will Be A Re Count. (North Down)

    The DUP are still narrow favourites..
    Indeed but If they get within few or several hundred, you can be almost certain they'll win next time, similar scenario to Belfast North.
  • Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Water
    Me too.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Bath Ales Wild Hare.
  • East Kilbride count: 66.6% (+3) Turnout in Rutherglen and Hamilton West (SLab defence)

    Feedback: SNP confident of Re-gain
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    Is Boris now thinking “fuck it I might as well sell the NHS”?

    😂😂
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    I'm about to have nice chilled glass of Sancerre and some Camembert.
    Anything 40%+ that’s left in the pantry.

    Now on to the Southern Comfort of all things, gathering dust in a corner for several years - tastes okay, as it turns out, with plenty of ice and lime.
  • The Green Party MUST disband as a political party.

    You either join the Tory party or join the Labour Party while we continue to have first past the post system.

    EVERY LIBERAL DEMOCRAT HAS BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS

    The Lib Dems aren't at fault. They're too weak to be blamed for any of this. Labour's ineptitude is entirely its own doing.
    Blyth valley was lost because the Green Party and Liberal Democrat party Didn’t stand down.

    How many Tory seats would be in trouble if the Brexit party ran?

    The Liberal Democrat need to decide your either a Tory or labour but they must disband in RI r first past the post system.

    A Tory won blyth valley because the lib democrat won’t back down
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    IanB2 said:

    The Liberal Democrat’s MUST disband as a political party.

    Either you support labour or you support tories with first past the post system.

    Just nonsense.
    Jo Swinson is a Tory. She pandered to austerity to get a government job.

    And she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats. Jo Swinson career has been to deliver the tories result after result.

    We have a broken country because the Liberal Democrat’s won’t back down. The party is a disgrace.
    "she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats"

    :lol:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,234

    ... thanks BBC for totally changing your webpage...

    Dude, sympathies... :(

  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Jonathan said:

    The SNP demonstrate what the left could have done in this election.

    Demanding Independence from who?
    Brussels?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    I'm downing any old shyte I can chuck down my throat......
  • IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Chateau Musar 2003
    Good choice
  • What's the link to your spreadsheet @FrancisUrquhart ? TIA.
  • Come back Alan Johnson and Ed Balls....FFS these Maomentum student politics tw@ts need to shut up and bugger off.

    Indeed. Balls is a fucking class act. How has Labour lost these guys?
    Ask @TheScreamingEagles he might have a clue.
    He polled very badly on a personal level as people realised he was Gordon Brown's consigliere and his assertions Labour hadn't left the UK exposed to the great financial crash.

    My legendary modesty prevents me from mentioning my brilliant campaigning skills.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Is Boris now thinking “fuck it I might as well sell the NHS”?

    QTWTAIN

    I reckon that Boris Johnson is basically planning to squash Labour by becoming, in essence, an anti-EU analogue of New Labour. But we shall see in due course.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters

    One metropolitan elite has been replaced by another. If Boris is anything, he is metropolitan elite.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,093

    IanB2 said:

    The Liberal Democrat’s MUST disband as a political party.

    Either you support labour or you support tories with first past the post system.

    Just nonsense.
    Jo Swinson is a Tory. She pandered to austerity to get a government job.

    And she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats. Jo Swinson career has been to deliver the tories result after result.

    We have a broken country because the Liberal Democrat’s won’t back down. The party is a disgrace.
    Absurd.

    The Labour loss would have been just as bad in a straight two-way contest.

    Labour had the chance to keep its promise to reform the voting system when in power, but broke its promise. Labour had the chance to put a credible leader and a broad based reform platform before the voters, but chose to go with Corbyn and an incredible platform. Labour had the chance to work with other Remain parties to defeat the Tories, but preferred to try and go it alone.
  • Yokes said:

    Belfast North : Some Areas Had 80% Approx Turnout, Ardoyne And Few Unionist Areas. Still On A Knife Edge. #Exciting

    You do know Ardoyne includes a Unionist community right?
    Yes but majority nationalist.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Fever-Tree Ginger Beer

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,081
    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Southern Rhone, cheese and biscuits, having tidied up my book nicely.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,178

    Yokes said:

    North Down Update : The Alliance Party (Stephen Farry) Vote Count Will Increase Immensely.

    There Is A Possibility There Will Be A Re Count. (North Down)

    The DUP are still narrow favourites..
    Indeed but If they get within few or several hundred, you can be almost certain they'll win next time, similar scenario to Belfast North.
    That makes no sense at all. 1. North Belfast has no SDLP candidate this time, it wont be so next time. 2. North Down's Alliance surge is just as likely to fade as sustain. it is not inevitable.
  • “Senior SLab figure” at East Kilbride count (does not want to be named) firmly blames Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Cardiff North: 51% chance Lab, 49% Con.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    speedy2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    speedy2 said:

    California and New York vote Democrats.
    Arkansas and W.Virginia vote Republicans.
    But that wasn't always so.

    California and NY voted Republican in the very recent past, whil Arkansas and W Virginia voted Democrat. (And, indeed, one of WV's Senators is a Democrat.)
    The transformation is the same and in the same direction.
    When Pelosi announced they were going ahead with articles of impeachment the other day, the 6 committee chairmen on stage with her ALL represented either CA or NY. Pelosi is also from CA.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Pepsi for me. Not sure how people can drink since you miss all the fun of the 4am declarations... :o
  • So if Alister Jack loses his seat who becomes the Tory Viceroy of Scotland?

    Gove?
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    I wonder if the Tories are ahead in Wales on vote percentage.
  • Seems to be the solution is a Northern Labour leader that stays far away from Remain and backs soft policies like railway nationalisation and maybe tuition fees - and that's it.
  • Jonathan said:

    The SNP is the answer to the idea that it was Brexit alone that caused Labour to lose.

    This is all about Corbyn, Milne and their cult.

    What's the difference between now and 2017? Labour commitment to a second referendum.
  • SNP confident that we have held Lanark and Hamilton East.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Is the big guy on ITV there to stop a fight between Farage and Miller?
  • Multiple voter fraud allegations in Scotland. People turning up to vote only to be told they'd already voted :open_mouth:

    Next General Election must require ID cards after this.

    We don't have ID cards in this country!
    No but we do in Northern Ireland. If you don't have photo ID you can get free-of-charge photo ID cards specifically to use in the election.
  • Is Boris now thinking “fuck it I might as well sell the NHS”?

    QTWTAIN

    I reckon that Boris Johnson is basically planning to squash Labour by becoming, in essence, an anti-EU analogue of New Labour. But we shall see in due course.
    Yes, absolutely, I was being a tad facetious. The north is about to get massively reinvestment in rail etc.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    All my friends are Labour, drinking with them tomo...tonight now blimey.
  • Is Boris now thinking “fuck it I might as well sell the NHS”?

    Johnson can do what he fucking well likes. Ditch the revolution agreements, break up the BBC, bring back hanging. Dizzying it must be...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Seems to be the solution is a Northern Labour leader that stays far away from Remain and backs soft policies like railway nationalisation and maybe tuition fees - and that's it.

    What's rail nationalisation and tuition fees going to do for the working class voters that have apparently deserted Labour?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,844
    Newcastle north rumoured to be close. End of days stuff
  • Is Boris now thinking “fuck it I might as well sell the NHS”?

    Johnson can do what he fucking well likes. Ditch the revolution agreements, break up the BBC, bring back hanging. Dizzying it must be...
    That was supposed to be 'devolution'...
  • RobD said:

    Pepsi for me. Not sure how people can drink since you miss all the fun of the 4am declarations... :o

    You underestimate me, sir.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    edited December 2019
    Artist said:

    I wonder if the Tories are ahead in Wales on vote percentage.

    Gower 50:50. Not sure how the Tories don't take that.....

    EDIT: BBC saying Labour "concerned" there.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300

    Fever-Tree Ginger Beer

    Coffee. (pint mug of)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Why does it feel like we've already had 50 results when in fact it's only 3?
  • Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    What classical music do you suggest listening to whilst watching the red
    Dominoes fall?
    1812 finale if Tory.
    Tchaikovsky Pathetique finale if Labour.
    MASH theme song if Swinson and friends.

  • theprof said:

    Turnout looks down 3% on announcements so far? Or is it regional?

    You don t average turnout dummy - trust the tv
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Pepsi for me. Not sure how people can drink since you miss all the fun of the 4am declarations... :o

    You underestimate me, sir.
    Challenge accepted? :p
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited December 2019
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Liberal Democrat’s MUST disband as a political party.

    Either you support labour or you support tories with first past the post system.

    Just nonsense.
    Jo Swinson is a Tory. She pandered to austerity to get a government job.

    And she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats. Jo Swinson career has been to deliver the tories result after result.

    We have a broken country because the Liberal Democrat’s won’t back down. The party is a disgrace.
    Absurd.

    The Labour loss would have been just as bad in a straight two-way contest.

    Labour had the chance to keep its promise to reform the voting system when in power, but broke its promise. Labour had the chance to put a credible leader and a broad based reform platform before the voters, but chose to go with Corbyn and an incredible platform. Labour had the chance to work with other Remain parties to defeat the Tories, but preferred to try and go it alone.
    I agree with you about the voting system, but Lib-Lab failure in co-operation will surely play a big part here. The rejoinder is that would be a greater loss in core Leave seats, but we may see a lot of key seats outside there with a badly split anti-Brexit vote tonight.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    The Liberal Democrat’s MUST disband as a political party.

    Either you support labour or you support tories with first past the post system.

    Just nonsense.
    Jo Swinson is a Tory. She pandered to austerity to get a government job.

    And she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats. Jo Swinson career has been to deliver the tories result after result.

    We have a broken country because the Liberal Democrat’s won’t back down. The party is a disgrace.
    Of course it is. Jo Swinson? Jew Swinson, I wouldn't be surprised.
  • Stockton North FFS
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,093

    Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters

    As I said upthread, it’s just the voting system. Underneath all this it’s still 50/50.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Southern Rhone, cheese and biscuits, having tidied up my book nicely.
    Tea. Can't face any more wine - it's not helping tbh.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,776

    Osborne dropping truth bombs on labour.

    I so miss him.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited December 2019
    Jonathan said:

    The SNP is the answer to the idea that it was Brexit alone that caused Labour to lose.

    This is all about Corbyn, Milne and their cult.

    But only 2-3 seats voted Leave in Scotland.
    When the Conservatives are winning 75% of the Leave vote it is Brexit.
    Dissatisfaction with Corbyn looks like a projection of the Leave vote.
  • Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters

    With respect Big G I think that's rubbish. Take a look at who bankrolls the Tories. They are the epitome of the metropolitan elite. Anyone who thinks that this is a victory for the common man is being played. It's sad that this US style culture war crap has taken root here.
  • So if Alister Jack loses his seat who becomes the Tory Viceroy of Scotland?

    Gove?

    Andrew Neil?
  • RobD said:

    Seems to be the solution is a Northern Labour leader that stays far away from Remain and backs soft policies like railway nationalisation and maybe tuition fees - and that's it.

    What's rail nationalisation and tuition fees going to do for the working class voters that have apparently deserted Labour?
    What do you propose they offer? Tory-lite and support Brexit? I'm genuinely curious.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Swing charts are updating :o
  • What has surprised me is how few results we've had so far. People always used to say high turnout favours the Tories and that seems to be borne out,
  • Gareth Snell thinks he's lost.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Gareth Snell thinks he's lost.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996

    Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters

    They literally elected a millionaire London MP of multi-continental descent born as an expatriate in New York.
  • I am Nostradamus, this is what I wrote in the summer of 2018.

    After the huge, near comedic swings and wins from third place we’ve seen in Scotland at recent elections, and with so many known unknowns to come, only the Heir to the Throne of the Kingdom of Idiots could confidently predict the outcome of the next general election in Scotland.

    If Labour’s strategy to make further gains in Scotland is to rely in major falls in the support of other parties then that might be a flawed approach.


    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/11/labours-gains-in-scotland-were-mostly-down-to-the-snp-misplacing-nearly-half-a-million-voters-not-because-of-some-great-love-for-corbyn/
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Gina Miller on ITV looks destroyed.
  • so Peter Bottomley Father of the House?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    David Miliband shortening for next Labour Leader...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,093

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Liberal Democrat’s MUST disband as a political party.

    Either you support labour or you support tories with first past the post system.

    Just nonsense.
    Jo Swinson is a Tory. She pandered to austerity to get a government job.

    And she refused to stand down Liberal Democrat’s in labour seats. Jo Swinson career has been to deliver the tories result after result.

    We have a broken country because the Liberal Democrat’s won’t back down. The party is a disgrace.
    Absurd.

    The Labour loss would have been just as bad in a straight two-way contest.

    Labour had the chance to keep its promise to reform the voting system when in power, but broke its promise. Labour had the chance to put a credible leader and a broad based reform platform before the voters, but chose to go with Corbyn and an incredible platform. Labour had the chance to work with other Remain parties to defeat the Tories, but preferred to try and go it alone.
    I agree with you about the voting system, but Lib-Lab failure in co-operation will surely play a big part here. The rejoinder is that would be a greater loss in core Leave seats, but we may see a lot of key seats outside there with a badly split anti-Brexit vote tonight.
    For sure. And Labour were invited to join in the Remain alliance talks, but - as ever with Labour - chose to take the tribal approach and stand everywhere itself.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited December 2019

    Well I can finally say after all these years the Metropolitan elite have been shown the door by the ordinary folk and not before time

    I had to get it off my chest and nothing personal to any of our posters

    With respect Big G I think that's rubbish. Take a look at who bankrolls the Tories. They are the epitome of the metropolitan elite. Anyone who thinks that this is a victory for the common man is being played. It's sad that this US style culture war crap has taken root here.
    Not just the metropolitan elite, in fact, but the transnational mega-wealthy elite.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    edited December 2019
    Seismic. We have not known such scenes since Blair was in his prime.
  • Ian Murray blaming the potential loss of Edinburgh South on Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn.

    Not sure who my soon-to-be ex MP Paul Sweeney will blame it on. His head may explode.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Snell hinting of 3 Tory MPs in stoke on Trent?
  • Gareth Snell unleashing the bitter recriminations on BBC1.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Gareth Snell concedes
  • Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Water
    Water
    Everywhere
  • Angus Robertson (SNP): “the SNP vote that didn’t turn out in 2017 has turned out today”.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286

    Stockton North FFS

    The Tories almost took it in 1983 through an SDP split when one of the Gang Of Four, Bill Rodgers, was the Alliance candidate.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    edited December 2019
    Cotswold Cider No-Brainer.

    I have a brace of Henry Westons Vintage Reserve downstairs, which @ydoethur will be pleased to know was payment for playing the organ at a carol service the other day. Given that I am currently in dispute with our vicar to the extent that Sunday’s nativity service may have no organist, I’m betting I might be bought off with more cider by this time next week.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Gareth Snell unleashing the bitter recriminations on BBC1.

    Sounds like the three horsemen of the apocalypse...
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Kensington

    bet365 Lab 4/7
    Skybet Con 9/4

    not as big an arb as Esher
  • Drutt said:

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Bath Ales Wild Hare.
    Sloe & mulberry gin – in an unusually large glass. For sloe gin.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Snell thinks he's lost
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    AlistairM said:

    Gina Miller on ITV looks destroyed.

    They've finally lost.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Remainer tears.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    AlistairM said:

    Gina Miller on ITV looks destroyed.

    Will she be taking the election result to court?
  • Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Water
    Water
    Everywhere
    And
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777

    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Water
    Water
    Everywhere
    And not a drop to drink.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,234
    Byronic said:

    I've moved on to Chateau Talbot, 2009

    Others?

    Schloer. Still on the white grape one. I'll probably leave the red grape one for next week. Still have some Doritos left
  • AlistairM said:

    Gina Miller on ITV looks destroyed.

    She's such a bitter loser...
  • Ian Murray blaming the potential loss of Edinburgh South on Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn.

    Not sure who my soon-to-be ex MP Paul Sweeney will blame it on. His head may explode.
    ... and no grey matter was found.
This discussion has been closed.