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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The money goes on 78 year old Bernie to win Iowa

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited January 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The money goes on 78 year old Bernie to win Iowa

We are now less than four weeks off the Iowa caucuses – the first election in the prolonged process of choosing the Democratic nominee. Even though the polls have Buttigieg, Biden and Bernie level-pegging that’s not how punters see it. The 78yo socialist from Vermont who is not even a Democrat is attracting the bets as having the best chance.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    edited January 2020
    Bugger.

    I'm going to be living in the poor house after primary season.
  • Options
    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    Is there a chance of any amendments to the EU Withdrawal bill passing?
  • Options
    Oh was that a primus inter pares?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    Latest Iowa poll has Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg all tied for the lead on 23%

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YoVEJY6TBhHvfrmNoApfpvOHNtNM6t6O/view
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    Mail Diary reports the Bullingdon Club might soon be forced to take members from Oxford Brookes due to falling membership
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    Lot can happen in four weeks.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    Man United defence and commitment are abject.
  • Options
    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    dodrade said:

    Is there a chance of any amendments to the EU Withdrawal bill passing?

    What did you have in mind?
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Lot can happen in four weeks.

    Just in terms of Iowa, the caucus system favors candidates who have super-enthusiastic supporters. That's not really Biden's profile.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,139
    HYUFD said:

    Mail Diary reports the Bullingdon Club might soon be forced to take members from Oxford Brookes due to falling membership

    I'm hoping you've made that up because if so it's excellent. Seriously, it is.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,437
    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,437
    dodrade said:

    Is there a chance of any amendments to the EU Withdrawal bill passing?

    Nothing the government doesn’t back.

    There will come a time in this parliament where more Tory MPs will be rebellious but not in the first votes following an election on a bill they all promised to support.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mail Diary reports the Bullingdon Club might soon be forced to take members from Oxford Brookes due to falling membership

    I'm hoping you've made that up because if so it's excellent. Seriously, it is.
    It is true (though you have to scroll down past the story about Andrew Scott's love life)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7852091/Fleabag-star-Andrew-Scott-accepts-offer-night-new-man-posing-shirtless-Grindr.html
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    How well does Klobuchar, sorry KLOBUCHAR, have to do in Iowa to see her price fall
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mail Diary reports the Bullingdon Club might soon be forced to take members from Oxford Brookes due to falling membership

    I'm hoping you've made that up because if so it's excellent. Seriously, it is.
    It is true (though you have to scroll down past the story about Andrew Scott's love life)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7852091/Fleabag-star-Andrew-Scott-accepts-offer-night-new-man-posing-shirtless-Grindr.html
    Looks like they've been inspired by Boris' policy of expanding into non-traditional areas of support!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Sanders caucuses with the Democrats though elected as an Independent, it is true to say though he would be the most leftwing Democratic nominee since George McGovern took on Richard Nixon in 1972
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Maybe the American Left need to go through their Corbyn phase too before they learn that lesson?
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    Just abject and reminds me of the 1980s when I would drive the 80 miles home after matches with my daughter in tears. Mind you, I think they are worse today.

    Ole has had his chance and failed and sentiment cannot come into it
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    He's the only manager to take points off Liverpool this season, and you lot play us a week on Sunday, so he shouldn't be sacked.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    edited January 2020

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mail Diary reports the Bullingdon Club might soon be forced to take members from Oxford Brookes due to falling membership

    I'm hoping you've made that up because if so it's excellent. Seriously, it is.
    It is true (though you have to scroll down past the story about Andrew Scott's love life)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7852091/Fleabag-star-Andrew-Scott-accepts-offer-night-new-man-posing-shirtless-Grindr.html
    Looks like they've been inspired by Boris' policy of expanding into non-traditional areas of support!
    More like Old Etonians and Harrovians who ended up at Brookes rather than Magdalen and Christ Church
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,139
    HYUFD said:
    I can't actually click on Mail online (virus protection) so will have to take your word for it.

    Amazing though. Writing jokes will soon become impossible if things carry on like this.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,911
    ...
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    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    I can't actually click on Mail online (virus protection) so will have to take your word for it.

    Amazing though. Writing jokes will soon become impossible if things carry on like this.
    Why would the best university in Oxford want to be associated with the dump that is the University of Oxford?
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    Nandy now 7.8. Was 11 this afternoon.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    I can't actually click on Mail online (virus protection) so will have to take your word for it.

    Amazing though. Writing jokes will soon become impossible if things carry on like this.
    Why would the best university in Oxford want to be associated with the dump that is the University of Oxford?
    I believe the Bullingdon Club is no longer an official Oxford University society
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Sanders caucuses with the Democrats though elected as an Independent, it is true to say though he would be the most leftwing Democratic nominee since George McGovern took on Richard Nixon in 1972
    And that went really well.

    Bloomberg is not exactly charismatic but at least he knows how to run things. Biden is bordering on senile already. Warren is occasionally amusing but has never ran anything and Buttigieg has been mayor of a small town. Its tragic. As we have seen all too recently we are talking about a position that gives the holder the power of life and death over pretty much anyone on the planet.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    It's what I keep asking.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    He's the only manager to take points off Liverpool this season, and you lot play us a week on Sunday, so he shouldn't be sacked.
    Rashford is frankly far too good for this team. If I was his agent I would be popping across to Spain on a regular basis.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    Is Thornberry def not?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    TOPPING said:

    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    Is Thornberry def not?

    I think she technically is but last I saw she had the support of 1 MP, possibly herself.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    Is Thornberry def not?

    I think she technically is but last I saw she had the support of 1 MP, possibly herself.
    Gah. Is she still seeing herself in court over Flint?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Arsene.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    He is a member of the Democratic Caucus and there is no such thing as a Democratic Party member, though you can register as a Democrat
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,953
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Sanders caucuses with the Democrats though elected as an Independent, it is true to say though he would be the most leftwing Democratic nominee since George McGovern took on Richard Nixon in 1972
    And that went really well.

    Bloomberg is not exactly charismatic but at least he knows how to run things. Biden is bordering on senile already. Warren is occasionally amusing but has never ran anything and Buttigieg has been mayor of a small town. Its tragic. As we have seen all too recently we are talking about a position that gives the holder the power of life and death over pretty much anyone on the planet.
    I suspect Bloomberg will run as a third party Independent candidate if the general election ends up Trump v Sanders and has a good chance of getting the highest third party vote since Ross Perot
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    Is Thornberry def not?

    I think she technically is but last I saw she had the support of 1 MP, possibly herself.
    Gah. Is she still seeing herself in court over Flint?
    Dunno.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited January 2020
    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    There's no such thing as "party membership" in the US, or at least not in the UK sense where you pay a membership fee, get a membership card and can participate in internal party elections and organization. In the US, people self-select which party they affiliate with. Many, but not all, states allow you to register that affiliation when you register to vote, and as a broad rule states that do so tend to have "closed" primaries where only registered supporters of a given party can vote in that party's primaries. (Until recently my state, New York, had a very long cut-off for changing party registration to stop people deciding which to register with close to the primary date.) . Other states have "open" primaries where you chose on the day which party's primary you're going to vote in.

    So in one sense, Sanders can't "be a Democrat" as there's no membership for him to obtain. It's not at all uncommon for candidates to secure, through primary elections, a party's nomination and not be at all in sympathy with the principles that the party is traditionally associated with, with David Clarke, the former "Democratic" sheriff of Milwaukie County, Wisconsin, being a good example. (US parties also don't really have policies in the sense that UK ones do, it's the candidates that have policies.)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Sanders caucuses with the Democrats though elected as an Independent, it is true to say though he would be the most leftwing Democratic nominee since George McGovern took on Richard Nixon in 1972
    And that went really well.

    Bloomberg is not exactly charismatic but at least he knows how to run things. Biden is bordering on senile already. Warren is occasionally amusing but has never ran anything and Buttigieg has been mayor of a small town. Its tragic. As we have seen all too recently we are talking about a position that gives the holder the power of life and death over pretty much anyone on the planet.
    I suspect Bloomberg will run as a third party Independent candidate if the general election ends up Trump v Sanders and has a good chance of getting the highest third party vote since Ross Perot
    Probably but he won't win. Trump will.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,597

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    He's the only manager to take points off Liverpool this season, and you lot play us a week on Sunday, so he shouldn't be sacked.
    He may be gone by then. There's an FA Cup replay a week tonight against the team that on Saturday restricted MU to fewer shots on target (zero) than in any other game during the last 4 years. With a W2 D3 L0 record against MU since promotion.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Jess isn't planning Rejoin. The reporting of her interview wasn't very precise. She supports a close relationship with the EU, and wouldn't rule out rejoining depending on how events transpire. She wants to leave that until later and concentrate on other issues.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    edited January 2020
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
    If Klopp told me to eat a pizza with a pineapple topping I would eat said pizza without question or complaint.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
    If Klopp told me to eat a pizza with a pineapple topping I would eat said pizza without question or complaint.
    Don't let him near your Amazon Music account though.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    Poch would be the best choice. Sign him up before he goes elsewhere.

    The Man U job is like Arsenal, a poisoned chalice.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    edited January 2020
    One of the benefits of a (working class) Yorkshire accent, I can be abusive to fecking plebs and get away with it.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1214666205920972802
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    rpjs said:

    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    There's no such thing as "party membership" in the US, or at least not in the UK sense where you pay a membership fee, get a membership card and can participate in internal party elections and organization. In the US, people self-select which party they affiliate with. Many, but not all, states allow you to register that affiliation when you register to vote, and as a broad rule states that do so tend to have "closed" primaries where only registered supporters of a given party can vote in that party's primaries. (Until recently my state, New York, had a very long cut-off for changing party registration to stop people deciding which to register with close to the primary date.) . Other states have "open" primaries where you chose on the day which party's primary you're going to vote in.

    So in one sense, Sanders can't "be a Democrat" as there's no membership for him to obtain. It's not at all uncommon for candidates to secure, through primary elections, a party's nomination and not be at all in sympathy with the principles that the party is traditionally associated with, with David Clarke, the former "Democratic" sheriff of Milwaukie County, Wisconsin, being a good example. (US parties also don't really have policies in the sense that UK ones do, it's the candidates that have policies.)
    Thanks for that. It partly explains why 'crossing the floor' to switch parties is a fair bit more common in the US than in our own system. People such as Ronald Reagan - John Connally - John Lindsay come to mind. Indeed I believe that Hubert Humphrey started off as a Republican supporting Wendell Wilkie in 1940 against FDR. The party Whipping system in Congress is also much looser.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
    If Klopp told me to eat a pizza with a pineapple topping I would eat said pizza without question or complaint.
    Surely it would be a sign his judgment had unaccountably deserted him ?
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,597
    TOPPING said:

    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    I kid you not but last week on checking my old political betting spreadsheet I realised that I had wagered a significant sum on Starmer for next leader as far back in Dec 2015, when he was still a very long shot.

    The down side of that is that it would only make RLB winning even more unbearable, so to mitigate the risk of hospitalisation through self-inflicted personal injury I laid a bit off on her at 7/2.

    I am only red on the rest, but would still be delighted if Nandy won. Personal betting outcomes pale into insignificance compared to what is at stake for Labour in this election.
  • Options

    One of the benefits of a (working class) Yorkshire accent, I can be abusive to fecking plebs and get away with it.

    twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1214666205920972802

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjJFv1NDBg
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
    If Klopp told me to eat a pizza with a pineapple topping I would eat said pizza without question or complaint.
    Surely it would be a sign his judgment had unaccountably deserted him ?
    Klopp is infallible.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    Some on the left of the party are asking the same about Biden:
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/01/06/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-biden-not-same-party-094642

    Both questions are foolish.
    The Democrats figured out what the Tories long ago did - in an FPTP type system, you need to be a broad church. Let’s hope they don’t forget that.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Man United defence and commitment are abject.

    Could be OGS's last game. Its bad enough that we consistently get beaten by small teams like Arsenal but until now we have been better against the big boys.
    But who is around to replace him that would both want to go to Manchester United and be of the calibre Man U would want.
    Pocchettino. Has some limitations but brilliant at bringing on the sort of young talent that Man U have, especially in the attacking players. Whether he would want it is another question.
    He's won fewer titles (as a manager) than OGS in fact Poch has never won anything.

    Best thing that ever happened was Woodward scaring off Klopp when he tried to hire Klopp.
    Klopp is a genius and apparently a very nice man with it.
    If Klopp told me to eat a pizza with a pineapple topping I would eat said pizza without question or complaint.
    Surely it would be a sign his judgment had unaccountably deserted him ?
    Klopp is infallible.
    Not if he starts peddling pineapple.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,911

    TOPPING said:

    Jesus my next lab leader book is crap. Green only on people not standing.

    I kid you not but last week on checking my old political betting spreadsheet I realised that I had wagered a significant sum on Starmer for next leader as far back in Dec 2015, when he was still a very long shot.

    The down side of that is that it would only make RLB winning even more unbearable, so to mitigate the risk of hospitalisation through self-inflicted personal injury I laid a bit off on her at 7/2.

    I am only red on the rest, but would still be delighted if Nandy won. Personal betting outcomes pale into insignificance compared to what is at stake for Labour in this election.
    I thought you were a Tory?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    justin124 said:

    rpjs said:

    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    There's no such thing as "party membership" in the US, or at least not in the UK sense where you pay a membership fee, get a membership card and can participate in internal party elections and organization. In the US, people self-select which party they affiliate with. Many, but not all, states allow you to register that affiliation when you register to vote, and as a broad rule states that do so tend to have "closed" primaries where only registered supporters of a given party can vote in that party's primaries. (Until recently my state, New York, had a very long cut-off for changing party registration to stop people deciding which to register with close to the primary date.) . Other states have "open" primaries where you chose on the day which party's primary you're going to vote in.

    So in one sense, Sanders can't "be a Democrat" as there's no membership for him to obtain. It's not at all uncommon for candidates to secure, through primary elections, a party's nomination and not be at all in sympathy with the principles that the party is traditionally associated with, with David Clarke, the former "Democratic" sheriff of Milwaukie County, Wisconsin, being a good example. (US parties also don't really have policies in the sense that UK ones do, it's the candidates that have policies.)
    Thanks for that. It partly explains why 'crossing the floor' to switch parties is a fair bit more common in the US than in our own system. People such as Ronald Reagan - John Connally - John Lindsay come to mind. Indeed I believe that Hubert Humphrey started off as a Republican supporting Wendell Wilkie in 1940 against FDR. The party Whipping system in Congress is also much looser.
    That's right. The separation of powers principal means that the need to have strong control over the legislative party isn't as strong here, although that said, in recent years the Republicans have become a much more united and disciplined party in Congress than has been traditional.

    I should also add that there are of course party organizations from precinct and town committees on up all the way to the DNC and RNC but they are more administrative than anything else. No-one can really be "expelled" from the party although within a caucus in a legislature they could be expelled from that caucus. That's usually only happens when someone gets convicted of a crime, not usually for ideological reasons.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    One of the benefits of a (working class) Yorkshire accent, I can be abusive to fecking plebs and get away with it.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1214666205920972802

    James Blunt stopped world war 3 happening by disobeying an order so he gets a lot of slack from me.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Clinton is shorter odds than two candidates who are still in the race.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Bernie Sanders could actually win this thing

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-democratic-primary/index.html

    Oh FFS x 1000.

    Not only am I red on Bernie, but he will lose even more biggly than Warren McGovern.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
    Maybe not. BUT HE CANNOT WIN AGAINST TRUMP.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Alistair said:

    Clinton is shorter odds than two candidates who are still in the race.

    Michelle Obama should be shorter odds than her.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Alistair said:

    One of the benefits of a (working class) Yorkshire accent, I can be abusive to fecking plebs and get away with it.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1214666205920972802

    James Blunt stopped world war 3 happening by disobeying an order so he gets a lot of slack from me.
    And he got invited to live at Carrie Fishers house in LA and write songs.
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    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    There is an extra problem with Iowa.

    No Iowa poll has included Bloomberg.
    Bloomberg won't campaign in Iowa, but Iowa has no filing requirements or a deadline.
    If you have supporters they can simply go in the Iowa caucus and say that they support you as a first choice and that's it basically.

    Given that Biden is averaging 20% in Iowa and the threshold for delegates is 15%, and Bloomberg is averaging nationally 5% but don't poll him in Iowa, what would Biden get in the Iowa polls if Bloomberg was included ?
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited January 2020

    Bernie Sanders could actually win this thing

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-democratic-primary/index.html

    Oh FFS x 1000.

    Not only am I red on Bernie, but he will lose even more biggly than Warren McGovern.

    I'm not entirely sure he would lose to Trump, who is historically unpopular, and whose surprise Rust Belt wins could be vulnerable to Sanders' left-populism. Given that he's promising to give the US an NHS for the first time, and the lack of one is financially crippling large numbers of ordinary voters, Sanders vs Trump would be an extremely unpredictable contest.
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    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
    Maybe not. BUT HE CANNOT WIN AGAINST TRUMP.

    During an Iran War ?
    Of course Bernie Sanders can win if there is a big war in the Middle East.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    One of Labour's few thinkers, Crudas, has gone for Nandy.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    speedy2 said:

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
    Maybe not. BUT HE CANNOT WIN AGAINST TRUMP.

    During an Iran War ?
    Of course Bernie Sanders can win if there is a big war in the Middle East.
    Good point, but sadly I think you are wrong. Let's hope we don't test this one.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Bernie Sanders could actually win this thing

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-democratic-primary/index.html

    Oh FFS x 1000.

    Not only am I red on Bernie, but he will lose even more biggly than Warren McGovern.

    I'm not entirely sure he would lose to Trump, who is historically unpopular, and whose surprise Rust Belt wins could be vulnerable to Sanders' left-populism. Given that he's promising to give the US an NHS for the first time, and the lack of one is financially crippling large numbers of ordinary voters, Sanders vs Trump would be an extremely unpredictable contest.
    No the Rust Belt will not be vulnerable to left-populism, imho. Not this cycle anyway.

    No, no, no. no. Dems don't do it. You may feel good for a night or two, but you will have four years to repent your stupidity.
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    speedy2 said:

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
    Maybe not. BUT HE CANNOT WIN AGAINST TRUMP.

    During an Iran War ?
    Of course Bernie Sanders can win if there is a big war in the Middle East.
    USA have pulled out so unlikely.
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    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    speedy2 said:

    Oh FFS. I am so red on Bernie.

    Are the Dems of Iowa absolutely bonkers? I think not. Buttigieg will win Iowa.

    Sanders still has a lot of pulling power amongst US "progressives" - it's a lot like the Corbyn cult but with the important distinction that Sanders is not a moron.
    Maybe not. BUT HE CANNOT WIN AGAINST TRUMP.

    During an Iran War ?
    Of course Bernie Sanders can win if there is a big war in the Middle East.
    USA have pulled out so unlikely.
    Trump is still kicking and screaming on the trigger, so lets not discard that possibility.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    There's still a debate (in Iowa) to go. The latest poll had it as a three way tie between Biden, Buttigieg, and Sanders, with Warren still very much in contention.

    Right now, if any of the candidates is trading about a 35-40% chance for Iowa, I would simply sell them.

    I would also note, as I have done a number of times, that Sanders has far from the best ground game in Iowa. Buttigieg has 27 field offices, Warren has 23, Biden 21, Klobuchar 11 and Sanders 9. Now, I know that this isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but Iowa is an organisation game. And I'm not sure how well organised Sanders is relative to his opponents.

    If he is going to win, and he might well win of course, then it will be because Warren goes backwards fast. She's the one to watch.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Not to some of us!

    (I suspect the Labour Party MP in the family might go for her. Not confirmed, but...)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    edited January 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    There's still a debate (in Iowa) to go. The latest poll had it as a three way tie between Biden, Buttigieg, and Sanders, with Warren still very much in contention.

    Right now, if any of the candidates is trading about a 35-40% chance for Iowa, I would simply sell them.

    I would also note, as I have done a number of times, that Sanders has far from the best ground game in Iowa. Buttigieg has 27 field offices, Warren has 23, Biden 21, Klobuchar 11 and Sanders 9. Now, I know that this isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but Iowa is an organisation game. And I'm not sure how well organised Sanders is relative to his opponents.

    If he is going to win, and he might well win of course, then it will be because Warren goes backwards fast. She's the one to watch.

    Edit to add: Sanders has recently opened a number of new offices - in Ankeny, Council Bluffs and Decorah. All of these are pretty rural. I may be being too pessimistic on his chances.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Phillips is running just to give Liz Kendall supporters someone to vote for.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    IanB2 said:

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Phillips is running just to give Liz Kendall supporters someone to vote for.
    I never saw Liz as the Gobby Fishwife Tendency.....
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    speedy2 said:

    There is an extra problem with Iowa.

    No Iowa poll has included Bloomberg.
    Bloomberg won't campaign in Iowa, but Iowa has no filing requirements or a deadline.
    If you have supporters they can simply go in the Iowa caucus and say that they support you as a first choice and that's it basically.

    Given that Biden is averaging 20% in Iowa and the threshold for delegates is 15%, and Bloomberg is averaging nationally 5% but don't poll him in Iowa, what would Biden get in the Iowa polls if Bloomberg was included ?

    It's a fair point... but (having been to Des Moines a few months ago), I'm not convinced there are that many Bloomberg supporters. Simply, this is retail politics. The average Iowan caucuas goer has probably seen at least one candidate in person, and so their Biden (or Klobuchar or Sanders) second preference is probably in the polls.

    In Des Moines, almost every TV advert is for a candidate. In one evening I must have seen five Steyer commercials. Around a third of yards have a sign (Gabbard, by the way, does rather better in yard signs than polls). The place is "Primary Crazy".
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    edited January 2020
    Owen Jones plans to wean himself off (a bit) from Twitter as his New Year/Labour lost (how/why?) resolutions.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/changing-my-relationship-with-twitter-ff4d3c0106b5

    He's right though - more time reading books is good.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Pundits and co desperate for horse race alert
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    IanB2 said:

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Phillips is running just to give Liz Kendall supporters someone to vote for.
    I never saw Liz as the Gobby Fishwife Tendency.....
    No fish are caught in Birmingham, except tench from the water under spaghetti junction.
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    rpjs said:

    justin124 said:

    rpjs said:

    justin124 said:

    Why is Bernie Sanders permitted to run in Democratic Primaries/Caucuses when he is not a party member?

    There's no such thing as "party membership" in the US, or at least not in the UK sense where you pay a membership fee, get a membership card and can participate in internal party elections and organization. In the US, people self-select which party they affiliate with. Many, but not all, states allow you to register that affiliation when you register to vote, and as a broad rule states that do so tend to have "closed" primaries where only registered supporters of a given party can vote in that party's primaries. (Until recently my state, New York, had a very long cut-off for changing party registration to stop people deciding which to register with close to the primary date.) . Other states have "open" primaries where you chose on the day which party's primary you're going to vote in.

    So in one sense, Sanders can't "be a Democrat" as there's no membership for him to obtain. It's not at all uncommon for candidates to secure, through primary elections, a party's nomination and not be at all in sympathy with the principles that the party is traditionally associated with, with David Clarke, the former "Democratic" sheriff of Milwaukie County, Wisconsin, being a good example. (US parties also don't really have policies in the sense that UK ones do, it's the candidates that have policies.)
    Thanks for that. It partly explains why 'crossing the floor' to switch parties is a fair bit more common in the US than in our own system. People such as Ronald Reagan - John Connally - John Lindsay come to mind. Indeed I believe that Hubert Humphrey started off as a Republican supporting Wendell Wilkie in 1940 against FDR. The party Whipping system in Congress is also much looser.

    With all four examples, it was a completely different time. Both parties had their liberal and conservative wings. (Which made for interesting quirks. Lyndon Johnson urged the nation to support Nixon's invasion of Cambodia. Wallace could be a die-hard racist and a big support of New Deal-like programs. etc. etc.)

    Bloomberg can do what he does because he's from one of the few political micro-climates that support liberal-ish Republicans. And because he can merrily throw millions down into a rat-hole.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Given who he 'writes' for, this can hardly be viewed as an objective analysis.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    IanB2 said:

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Phillips is running just to give Liz Kendall supporters someone to vote for.
    I never saw Liz as the Gobby Fishwife Tendency.....
    No fish are caught in Birmingham, except tench from the water under spaghetti junction.
    Nothing in Edgbasston?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Telegraph.

    "Lisa Nandy is the one candidate for Labour leader I could ever dream of voting for."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/aliens-among-us-running-leader-labour-party/
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    speedy2 said:

    There is an extra problem with Iowa.

    No Iowa poll has included Bloomberg.
    Bloomberg won't campaign in Iowa, but Iowa has no filing requirements or a deadline.
    If you have supporters they can simply go in the Iowa caucus and say that they support you as a first choice and that's it basically.

    Given that Biden is averaging 20% in Iowa and the threshold for delegates is 15%, and Bloomberg is averaging nationally 5% but don't poll him in Iowa, what would Biden get in the Iowa polls if Bloomberg was included ?

    Well, unless he gets 15% in a precinct, it's not it. The organisers say "OK, you didn't make the cut. Who's your next choice?"
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    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    rcs1000 said:

    speedy2 said:

    There is an extra problem with Iowa.

    No Iowa poll has included Bloomberg.
    Bloomberg won't campaign in Iowa, but Iowa has no filing requirements or a deadline.
    If you have supporters they can simply go in the Iowa caucus and say that they support you as a first choice and that's it basically.

    Given that Biden is averaging 20% in Iowa and the threshold for delegates is 15%, and Bloomberg is averaging nationally 5% but don't poll him in Iowa, what would Biden get in the Iowa polls if Bloomberg was included ?

    It's a fair point... but (having been to Des Moines a few months ago), I'm not convinced there are that many Bloomberg supporters. Simply, this is retail politics. The average Iowan caucuas goer has probably seen at least one candidate in person, and so their Biden (or Klobuchar or Sanders) second preference is probably in the polls.

    In Des Moines, almost every TV advert is for a candidate. In one evening I must have seen five Steyer commercials. Around a third of yards have a sign (Gabbard, by the way, does rather better in yard signs than polls). The place is "Primary Crazy".
    The problem that I'm highlighting is that Iowa Polls are commiting malpractice in that they do not ask for all the candidates that can receive votes, especially one that is 5th nationally.

    Given that Iowa is extremely close and there is a 15% threshold that's a big problem, we don't know how many Bloomberg suppporters are in Iowa or who does it hit more and by how much.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    IanB2 said:

    Re the comments on Jess Phillips and rejoin FPT:

    Rejoin is a foolish argument to run at this juncture because it keeps the EU issue alive. And that benefits the Tories because they can run another election on the EU.

    Frankly the Labour Party should try everything they can to avoid talking about Europe.

    In the future it might be a viable argument but we’re at least 15-20 years away from the time when it’s even something that could be seriously thought about. The EU will need to be persuaded that there has been a dramatic shift in UK sentiment and the rejoiners will have to win a lot of arguments for Europe that, at present, public sentiment doesn’t back. No rebate. No euro opt out. Etc, etc.

    Phillips is running just to give Liz Kendall supporters someone to vote for.
    I never saw Liz as the Gobby Fishwife Tendency.....
    No fish are caught in Birmingham, except tench from the water under spaghetti junction.
    Nothing in Edgbasston?
    Or Sutton Codfield?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The question we all need answering: has it got a printer in there?

    (Of course it fucking has, Jess....)
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    He's not a Democrat. FFS, get a grip. Are the Democrats really going to leave us with that psychopathic egotist in the Whitehouse for another 4 years? There must be someone serious with an ability to think further ahead than the next tweet.

    Sanders caucuses with the Democrats though elected as an Independent, it is true to say though he would be the most leftwing Democratic nominee since George McGovern took on Richard Nixon in 1972
    It's difficult, in the same way that choosing Corbyn was difficult. I see him as the only real left-winger in the race, and if he got elected that'd be wonderful if you're like me. But the selection of negative attacks available would be almost as awesome as Corbyn had to deal with, in a country where socialism has only just come back into (some) fashion.
This discussion has been closed.