One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
Just as a matter of interest, aren't you concerned that this leads to ever greater stratification, with a well off class of home owners, whose children go on to own houses, and who go to university, etc., and an underclass who's chance of escape is practically nil?
Yeah, can we not talk about the Democratic Party's primaries?
I'm headed for the poor house.
I'm fine so long as Bloomberg doesn't win, which while unlikely isn't nearly as unlikely as when I laid him at 67. In fairness, this was after he said he wouldn't run and before he said he would. But it's left me so exposed to him I'm not willing to top up on the insane 8/1 he is right now. Ridiculously short, I'd make him 20-30s or so, personally. Here's my book, note I have a separate bet on Biden which wins £360 (£40 at 9/1, placed shortly before Biden announced he was running).
I have a similar book except you’re 8 or 9 times more aggressive than me.
Oh, and I thought it’d be good to lay Sanders a bit at 3s too.
I have laid Bernie at 3.3
I wobbled seriously earlier, but I am feeling a bit more steady on this.
I’ve heard some laughable ideas in my time, but I’m not sure anything beats a suggestion that the Conservatives might call a General Election in a year! Might call into question the idea that pb.com is a place for serious political debate!
Hold on a second. I thought this was a place for serious discussions about the merits (or not) of pineapple on pizza? We're supposed to be debating politics?
Don't be silly.
There are no merits to putting pineapple on pizza.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
The fact Nationwide are pushing equity release for expensive holidays too not just helping your children buy a property is just a marketing ploy to push their profits, nothing more
I've explained to my kids that I want the last cheque I write to bounce. Frankly, I've fed and clothed and kept them warm for the last twelve years, and I think it's time they started doing something for me. Enough of all the giving.
Well you are a liberal, that is up to you, I am a conservative and a strong believer in the family and inherited wealth. For me family obligations continue from birth to death for all generations to help each other
Erm, I'm pretty sure that was irony. Don't think too many liberals would say that to a 12-year-old!
Free market liberals like RCS would (if not maybe the soggy social democrat sandal wearers but they would be keener on paying for a big state to provide for them instead)
With no intervention and a proper free market, society bifurcates in a generation or two and then you get revolution. If you try to impose a proper level playing field with communism, society ossifies within a generation or two.
You want as many people playing Monopoly as possible. But to get them to play, they need at least a small chance of being able to win...
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
Just as a matter of interest, aren't you concerned that this leads to ever greater stratification, with a well off class of home owners, whose children go on to own houses, and who go to university, etc., and an underclass who's chance of escape is practically nil?
The principle that (for some people at least) it is not enough to succeed, the others must also suffer is so well established by now it's probably a trope. It's even a plot point in "1984"...
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
Absolutely bizarre campaign from Nationwide. It looks and feels like an outrageous spoof.
Ok, run VT. Scene 1, take 45 and action! Voiceover, cue...
"...Dear Selfish Boomer Bastard. About to retire? Have vulnerable children? Then f*** them right up the a*** by spending their inheritance now. While they toil to pay your pension, why not buy stacks of stupid wine and really expensive holidays? Then when you've got nothing left, they'll still have to pay the care home to look after you! The Nationwide Selfish Boomer Bastard account. Because you weren't using that conscience, were you?..."
I think there's little doubt if he had stood again hed have won.
I doubt he would have done. I think he got the benefit of the doubt after 2017, but wanting him to stay on doesn't appear to be a very common position now.
Last summer a members poll already had 40% saying he should stand down before an election - It's very unlikely that wouldn't be higher now, given what happened on 12th December.
I'm on a train. It's quiet. There are no drunks nor thugs in the carriage. The train is on time. This is so unusual I am frightened to move in case I disrupt the space-time continuum. Spooky....
And now I never shall. I'm surprised poor cyclefree has not fallen into shocked catatonia.
I have. My convalescence has been severely set back by viewing such horrors. I will have to console myself tomorrow with a treat from one of the Lake District’s best bakeries.
I'm on a train. It's quiet. There are no drunks nor thugs in the carriage. The train is on time. This is so unusual I am frightened to move in case I disrupt the space-time continuum. Spooky....
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
The fact Nationwide are pushing equity release for expensive holidays too not just helping your children is just a marketing ploy to push their profits, nothing more
I'm not talking about actual old people like my grandparents who were amazingly unselfish, it's my parents generation that are. Obviously this is all fairly alien to me because I'm Asian and passing down wealth is in our blood. However, the advert is playing vey badly with a generation that's already unimpressed with high street banks, the first of Starling/Monzo to offer mortgages will absolutely clean up.
Surely the point is to appeal to customers with money that the bank can get their mitts on, not to skint Millenials?
I have passed on a fair bit of dosh to Fox jr, mostly to put him in the position that I was 30 years ago when finishing Uni. I had fee free university, even a student grant. I have not given him a silver spoon for his mouth, just not setting him off in independent life without the chains of debt.
You paid his tuition fees? Martin Lewis is shouting really loudly at you! Forget student loans, give him a house deposit. Of much more use.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
The fact Nationwide are pushing equity release for expensive holidays too not just helping your children is just a marketing ploy to push their profits, nothing more
I'm not talking about actual old people like my grandparents who were amazingly unselfish, it's my parents generation that are. Obviously this is all fairly alien to me because I'm Asian and passing down wealth is in our blood. However, the advert is playing vey badly with a generation that's already unimpressed with high street banks, the first of Starling/Monzo to offer mortgages will absolutely clean up.
Surely the point is to appeal to customers with money that the bank can get their mitts on, not to skint Millenials?
I have passed on a fair bit of dosh to Fox jr, mostly to put him in the position that I was 30 years ago when finishing Uni. I had fee free university, even a student grant. I have not given him a silver spoon for his mouth, just not setting him off in independent life without the chains of debt.
You paid his tuition fees? Martin Lewis is shouting really loudly at you! Forget student loans, give him a house deposit. Of much more use.
Lefties and sound economics are not often bedfellows..
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
I’m not convinced that the last point is correctly founded in the U.K. context.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
I’m not convinced that the last point is correctly founded in the U.K. context.
It's more general lending than property, but fundamentally correct. Pretty much every UK lender that went bust was offering aggressively priced credit, the most notorious example of which was the 125% LTV mortgage. The crash still might not have happened without the credit crunch, but I don't think it's disputable that banks and building societies weren't pricing risk on lending very effectively in the run-up.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
I’m not convinced that the last point is correctly founded in the U.K. context.
It's more general lending than property, but fundamentally correct. Pretty much every UK lender that went bust was offering aggressively priced credit, the most notorious example of which was the 125% LTV mortgage. The crash still might not have happened without the credit crunch, but I don't think it's disputable that banks and building societies weren't pricing risk on lending very effectively in the run-up.
In 2010 I sat in on a meeting where a team were considering bringing in a 110% mortgage product. I piped up and asked them WTF they were thinking as that was a really stupid idea. They started to rip me to shreds until an Exec who had been lurking on the call piped up to say I was right and they should be ashamed of themselves.
In times of low returns on capital and the need for sales volumes, stupid ideas will keep popping back up.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
I’m not convinced that the last point is correctly founded in the U.K. context.
It's more general lending than property, but fundamentally correct. Pretty much every UK lender that went bust was offering aggressively priced credit, the most notorious example of which was the 125% LTV mortgage. The crash still might not have happened without the credit crunch, but I don't think it's disputable that banks and building societies weren't pricing risk on lending very effectively in the run-up.
In 2010 I sat in on a meeting where a team were considering bringing in a 110% mortgage product.
Wasn't Northern Rock was it? Oh no.....they actually did that....at 125% - there's no bad idea that can't be made worse.....
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
I think this is the usual point in the conversation where I point out that many people have poor parents who have no money to provide help, and that such people might not hold the [rude word] people in that [rude word] advert with such insouciance.
Yes but they will always be renting anyway regardless
No, they wont. Some people pay their own deposit (buffs nails modestly)
If you are poor near zero chance of being able to afford to pay for your own deposit, certainly in London and the Home Counties
The Green Belt Must Be Destroyed.
No, just control immigration and you can still build enough housing without destroying the green belt. Plus lending beyond peoples means to repay to buy property was what caused the 2008 crash
I’m not convinced that the last point is correctly founded in the U.K. context.
It's more general lending than property, but fundamentally correct. Pretty much every UK lender that went bust was offering aggressively priced credit, the most notorious example of which was the 125% LTV mortgage. The crash still might not have happened without the credit crunch, but I don't think it's disputable that banks and building societies weren't pricing risk on lending very effectively in the run-up.
In 2010 I sat in on a meeting where a team were considering bringing in a 110% mortgage product.
Wasn't Northern Rock was it? Oh no.....they actually did that....at 125% - there's no bad idea that can't be made worse.....
I'm on a train. It's quiet. There are no drunks nor thugs in the carriage. The train is on time. This is so unusual I am frightened to move in case I disrupt the space-time continuum. Spooky....
A train that will take you far away?
I know where I hope the train will take me, but I can't know for sure...
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Except in reality most of the older generation are not that selfish, I and most of my friends and partner all got help to get on the property ladder from our parents.
The fact Nationwide are pushing equity release for expensive holidays too not just helping your children is just a marketing ploy to push their profits, nothing more
I'm not talking about actual old people like my grandparents who were amazingly unselfish, it's my parents generation that are. Obviously this is all fairly alien to me because I'm Asian and passing down wealth is in our blood. However, the advert is playing vey badly with a generation that's already unimpressed with high street banks, the first of Starling/Monzo to offer mortgages will absolutely clean up.
Surely the point is to appeal to customers with money that the bank can get their mitts on, not to skint Millenials?
I have passed on a fair bit of dosh to Fox jr, mostly to put him in the position that I was 30 years ago when finishing Uni. I had fee free university, even a student grant. I have not given him a silver spoon for his mouth, just not setting him off in independent life without the chains of debt.
You paid his tuition fees? Martin Lewis is shouting really loudly at you! Forget student loans, give him a house deposit. Of much more use.
No, not his tuition fees. He has the full loan amount there, but I did pay his living expenses and also his fees for his law conversion course. He is earning now, but I will reimburse him his fee repayments when he passes the threshold to start repaying.
Student debt is clearly going to be a big issue in all future elections, and I think it only a matter of time before the whole loan book is written off, so daft to pay off as a lump sum. What I have attempted to do is to put Fox jr in a position where he is not constrained by it.
One of my mates just brought up the new Nationwide advert that's been doing the rounds. I think they have inadvertently captured everything that is wrong about the most selfish generation in existence. The old man character is absolutely the worst kind of hypocrite and I think Nationwide have not understood how poorly their advert is playing among younger people.
Lol, that is pretty tone deaf. It's not too bad if you don't already hold a slightly 'OK Boomer' worldview, but the bit where she says (paraphrasing) "I feel guilty about not passing on wealth because I inherited" and he replies (almost word for word) "When we're on a great holiday drinking wine I won't be thinking about anyone but myself" is not as benign/amusing as Nationwide seem to think!
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
Seems quite plausible. Anyone think much time will be spent in Canada?
It is quite possible, but it doesn't matter a lot that if they move on even further. I can see why they want to escape the toxic British Media, though in a globalised world that escape is very hard to achieve.
The British Media will harass Harry until he is dead, and then cry hypocritically over him.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
Yes, but that's what I mean about subtext - it takes on issues of nationalism etc without us needing to be told beforehand 'this is about Trump you dummies!'
A lot of star trek, next generation particularly, was about utopian ideals which at times was less than subtle criticism of current times, and that's fine, I loved next gen. It's just unfortunate he feels the need to batter us over the head with it before we even see it.
If there was a racist character called Bonald Drump for example it'd be a bit unnecessary as the point about a better society contrasted with Trump would exist without it. But 'taking on' Trump suggests to me they'll be very unsubtle while thinking they are oh so clever.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
Don't new governments usually get a modest polling bounce?
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
Indeed, those Empires broke up within my lifetime, creating numerous new nation states. Was Britain truly a nation state when we had an Empire?
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
By centuries I meant about 3-4 at most. It is pretty unusual in the grand scheme.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
By centuries I meant about 3-4 at most. It is pretty unusual in the grand scheme.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
Indeed, those Empires broke up within my lifetime, creating numerous new nation states. Was Britain truly a nation state when we had an Empire?
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
By centuries I meant about 3-4 at most. It is pretty unusual in the grand scheme.
Only for the first few emerging examples. Nation states as we currently perceive them only became the European norm after Versailles, and were later imposed upon the former colonial world as a parting gift.
We are waiting for the appearance of technologically proficient aliens to accelerate the inevitable demise of the nation state. That or Chinese dominance.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
By centuries I meant about 3-4 at most. It is pretty unusual in the grand scheme.
Norman Davies book, Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe is an interesting read on this. Someone here recommended it some months ago. There's a comment in it that he expects Britain to break up before too long; it's done very well, so far, in the context of European history.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
By centuries I meant about 3-4 at most. It is pretty unusual in the grand scheme.
Only for the first few emerging examples. Nation states as we currently perceive them only became the European norm after Versailles, and were later imposed upon the former colonial world as a parting gift.
Granddaughter 2, who will before too long will be able to choose between being a Thai and being a Brit has to date thought of herself as British, although she lives, and always has lived, in Thailand. However she had to write an essay on 'colonialism' recently and it has awakened her pride in Thai-ness; the only part of S/SE Asia never ruled by a Western invader.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
That's unfortunate. For one thing that they are coming right out and saying so suggests it'll be a subtle as a brick about it rather than merely being cutting subtext.
I haven't seen any Star Trek apart from the original 1960s series, and that not for decades, but in it the Federation is not just a continent wide political union, but an interplanetary one, so implicitly is based on an end to nation states. Ditto the multi-species universe of Star Wars, which has interplanetary Empire, and Rebel council, with political, diplomatic and military structures.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
On the point of nation states being obsolete in the future its interesting it's so common a predicted view, as nation states have been dominant for many centuries now and can be very stubborn. Some sci fi stories get around it with the idea earth itself is still run by nations or unions of nations, but theres some unified body essentially acting as the face of humanity in the stars, a la Mass Effect and the Systems Alliance.
Arguably the nation state in its current conception hasn’t actually been around for very long. The empires of ancient history and the family monarchies of medieval times were very different beasts. It is simply that we look back at history through the prism of our current circumstances.
Indeed, those Empires broke up within my lifetime, creating numerous new nation states. Was Britain truly a nation state when we had an Empire?
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
Don't new governments usually get a modest polling bounce?
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
Don't new governments usually get a modest polling bounce?
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
That’s hardly news. The point is rather that if you drive through a policy without majority support, any significant negative consequences are likely to come back and bite you.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I think they're saying there's very little than could happen for Bailey to win the thing. Rory could get some traction to give him a chance at being first but most likely he wont even beat Bailey. Others on here have flagged up skybet 3/1 Bailey coming second as great value. Pulpstar was one I think, whose betting opinion i rate highly. Ladbrokes seem to agree with him.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
Financial sophisticates like yourself will only be mildly inconvenienced. That doesn’t necessarily make it a bad policy.
For every person who is inconvenienced by this I suspect it will help 100 if not 1,000 others.
Equally it's not actually going far enough - the ban should be attached to the credit cards not on the betting companies as it may just move things offshore.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
Financial sophisticates like yourself will only be mildly inconvenienced. That doesn’t necessarily make it a bad policy.
I agree. Credit cards are the most readily accessible mode of credit. If someone is using credit to gamble they have a problem.
A lot of people using credit cards will not be using credit but their convenience but debit cards are as flexible these days (provided you have the money in your account). I think that this will target problem gamblers quite effectively. Along with FOBTs it appears that government's tolerance of a fairly rapacious gambling sector is reaching its limits. I suspect more steps will follow.
Especially annoying is that there's a great, ready-made narrative that fits both the post-DS9 Alpha Quadrant and relates to modern Western politics.
Martok struggles to lead the Klingons as the nobility resent his authority. Federation torn between remaining militant or returning to a more peaceful footing. Division everywhere, but some threat (could be Borg but they did that quite a bit with Voyager) demands unity.
I don't think politics in sci-fi/fantasy is inherently a problem. But people don't like being preached to.
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
Don't new governments usually get a modest polling bounce?
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
That’s hardly news. The point is rather that if you drive through a policy without majority support, any significant negative consequences are likely to come back and bite you.
Which might be the story of the next five years.
Yes, the Parliamentary majority is a manifestation of our FPTP system, not a change in the underlying feeling within the country. The Tories know this, hence the interest in voter suppression in the manifesto.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
Financial sophisticates like yourself will only be mildly inconvenienced. That doesn’t necessarily make it a bad policy.
For every person who is inconvenienced by this I suspect it will help 100 if not 1,000 others.
Equally it's not actually going far enough - the ban should be attached to the credit cards not on the betting companies as it may just move things offshore.
One of the Faculty of Advocates pension fund's best investments in the last couple of years has been Mastercard. Whilst welcoming the gains I find this troubling. The business policies of credit card companies make the gambling industry look like innocents. The government has been pressurising "interest free" offers quite effectively but there is a huge amount to do.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
Financial sophisticates like yourself will only be mildly inconvenienced. That doesn’t necessarily make it a bad policy.
I agree. Credit cards are the most readily accessible mode of credit. If someone is using credit to gamble they have a problem.
A lot of people using credit cards will not be using credit but their convenience but debit cards are as flexible these days (provided you have the money in your account). I think that this will target problem gamblers quite effectively. Along with FOBTs it appears that government's tolerance of a fairly rapacious gambling sector is reaching its limits. I suspect more steps will follow.
Debit cards can be debt cards just as much as credit cards, and the APR for being overdrawn far worse.
Ash Sarker will be along directly to explain (1) it’s a myth Labour has lost the working class (2) Labour won the arguments and (3) the red wave is coming.
Don't new governments usually get a modest polling bounce?
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
That’s hardly news. The point is rather that if you drive through a policy without majority support, any significant negative consequences are likely to come back and bite you.
Which might be the story of the next five years.
It had majority support. It was legitimate.. its like labour taking the lead in the polls after after the general election and then claiming the Govt isnt legitimate. Its bullshit..
"You paid his tuition fees? Martin Lewis is shouting really loudly at you! Forget student loans, give him a house deposit. Of much more use".
Foxy said: "No, not his tuition fees. He has the full loan amount there, but I did pay his living expenses and also his fees for his law conversion course. He is earning now, but I will reimburse him his fee repayments when he passes the threshold to start repaying.
Student debt is clearly going to be a big issue in all future elections, and I think it only a matter of time before the whole loan book is written off, so daft to pay off as a lump sum. What I have attempted to do is to put Fox jr in a position where he is not constrained by it".
Nice one Foxy, correct tactics. Pledges such as Corbyn`s over student loans has made it very unwise to repay any faster than is necessary. Very irresponsible policy statement.
If a parent had cleared their child`s loan, wholly or partially, and then a future government wiped the book, the parent would have no chance of clawing back payments voluntarily made.
The graduate can make repayments even less than need-be by making larger pension plan contributions. As I`ve pointed out before, student "loans" are best thought of a graduate tax which ceases after 30 years.
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
Financial sophisticates like yourself will only be mildly inconvenienced. That doesn’t necessarily make it a bad policy.
I agree. Credit cards are the most readily accessible mode of credit. If someone is using credit to gamble they have a problem.
A lot of people using credit cards will not be using credit but their convenience but debit cards are as flexible these days (provided you have the money in your account). I think that this will target problem gamblers quite effectively. Along with FOBTs it appears that government's tolerance of a fairly rapacious gambling sector is reaching its limits. I suspect more steps will follow.
Debit cards can be debt cards just as much as credit cards, and the APR for being overdrawn far worse.
Nanny state nonsense.
I think that you will find the debt profile very different (although this is something to keep an eye on). The credit checks on who gets an authorised overdraft are very different from those offered credit cards in their junk mail.
Especially annoying is that there's a great, ready-made narrative that fits both the post-DS9 Alpha Quadrant and relates to modern Western politics.
Martok struggles to lead the Klingons as the nobility resent his authority. Federation torn between remaining militant or returning to a more peaceful footing. Division everywhere, but some threat (could be Borg but they did that quite a bit with Voyager) demands unity.
I don't think politics in sci-fi/fantasy is inherently a problem. But people don't like being preached to.
Star Trek, TOS particularly, has always taken on political issues head on.
Plato's Stepchildren and Let That Be Your Last Battlefield took on America's racism/segregation issues and were being accused of preaching to their audience.
The Voyage Home was accused of preaching to viewers on Climate Change/animal extinction but they turned out to be right.
Comments
I wobbled seriously earlier, but I am feeling a bit more steady on this.
Dem primary voters want to win. Bernie can't win.
It's over before it has begun.
https://labourlist.org/2020/01/labour-candidates-raise-concerns-over-official-leadership-hustings/
After these concerns were raised:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1216772406276247553
My wallet fears him, Paul.
You want as many people playing Monopoly as possible. But to get them to play, they need at least a small chance of being able to win...
How does this make sense?
I'm currently green/zero on everyone but Bloomberg and Steyr
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1216755169473503233?s=20
Or was it? ....
Starting to find his teflon nature a little annoying.
"...Dear Selfish Boomer Bastard. About to retire? Have vulnerable children? Then f*** them right up the a*** by spending their inheritance now. While they toil to pay your pension, why not buy stacks of stupid wine and really expensive holidays? Then when you've got nothing left, they'll still have to pay the care home to look after you! The Nationwide Selfish Boomer Bastard account. Because you weren't using that conscience, were you?..."
...aaaand cut!
Last summer a members poll already had 40% saying he should stand down before an election - It's very unlikely that wouldn't be higher now, given what happened on 12th December.
I have just watched the Nationwide ad. I can only assume it's entirely deliberate.
It’s much worse than it appears... they are measuring BMG against actual result of 45% and 33%. BMG final poll firmly in hung parliament territory.
It should be really measured against change from their last BMG poll.
Con 44% +5
Lab 29% -4
Libdem 11% -2
In times of low returns on capital and the need for sales volumes, stupid ideas will keep popping back up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II1q9JSaISY
https://twitter.com/PatriciaTreble/status/1216875779260329985?s=20
https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/magway/pitches/bd7LNZ
Student debt is clearly going to be a big issue in all future elections, and I think it only a matter of time before the whole loan book is written off, so daft to pay off as a lump sum. What I have attempted to do is to put Fox jr in a position where he is not constrained by it.
The same goes for the future worlds of Starship Troopers and Alien. It does seem more or less assumed in all Science Fiction set so far in the future that nationalism and nation states are obsolete.
The British Media will harass Harry until he is dead, and then cry hypocritically over him.
A lot of star trek, next generation particularly, was about utopian ideals which at times was less than subtle criticism of current times, and that's fine, I loved next gen. It's just unfortunate he feels the need to batter us over the head with it before we even see it.
If there was a racist character called Bonald Drump for example it'd be a bit unnecessary as the point about a better society contrasted with Trump would exist without it. But 'taking on' Trump suggests to me they'll be very unsubtle while thinking they are oh so clever.
I think this is the same BMG poll, the underlying positions haven't really changed.
https://twitter.com/HackedOffHugh/status/1216401880823279625?s=19
http://www.martinjacques.com/articles/civilization-state-versus-nation-state-2/
PS - she doesn't want a vote anyway.....
The gambling watchdog has confirmed that the use of credit cards for betting is to be banned from April.
The move, aimed at tackling problem gambling and protecting other vulnerable customers, was announced by the Gambling Commission following several reviews.
The ban, due to take effect on 14 April, covers all online and offline betting activities.
https://news.sky.com/story/credit-card-deposits-for-online-betting-to-be-banned-from-april-11908234
I use them all the time. It’s an investment tool like any other.
We had the vote... we have to.leave.
The point is rather that if you drive through a policy without majority support, any significant negative consequences are likely to come back and bite you.
Which might be the story of the next five years.
Equally it's not actually going far enough - the ban should be attached to the credit cards not on the betting companies as it may just move things offshore.
A lot of people using credit cards will not be using credit but their convenience but debit cards are as flexible these days (provided you have the money in your account). I think that this will target problem gamblers quite effectively. Along with FOBTs it appears that government's tolerance of a fairly rapacious gambling sector is reaching its limits. I suspect more steps will follow.
Mr. HYUFD/Mr. kle4, it sounds irksome.
Especially annoying is that there's a great, ready-made narrative that fits both the post-DS9 Alpha Quadrant and relates to modern Western politics.
Martok struggles to lead the Klingons as the nobility resent his authority. Federation torn between remaining militant or returning to a more peaceful footing. Division everywhere, but some threat (could be Borg but they did that quite a bit with Voyager) demands unity.
I don't think politics in sci-fi/fantasy is inherently a problem. But people don't like being preached to.
You can simply do a cash advance to pay for it instead, just as you can still indulge alcohol and drug addiction with it.
This strikes me as “something must be done”; this is something, therefore we must do this.
Nanny state nonsense.
"You paid his tuition fees? Martin Lewis is shouting really loudly at you! Forget student loans, give him a house deposit. Of much more use".
Foxy said: "No, not his tuition fees. He has the full loan amount there, but I did pay his living expenses and also his fees for his law conversion course. He is earning now, but I will reimburse him his fee repayments when he passes the threshold to start repaying.
Student debt is clearly going to be a big issue in all future elections, and I think it only a matter of time before the whole loan book is written off, so daft to pay off as a lump sum. What I have attempted to do is to put Fox jr in a position where he is not constrained by it".
Nice one Foxy, correct tactics. Pledges such as Corbyn`s over student loans has made it very unwise to repay any faster than is necessary. Very irresponsible policy statement.
If a parent had cleared their child`s loan, wholly or partially, and then a future government wiped the book, the parent would have no chance of clawing back payments voluntarily made.
The graduate can make repayments even less than need-be by making larger pension plan contributions. As I`ve pointed out before, student "loans" are best thought of a graduate tax which ceases after 30 years.
Plato's Stepchildren and Let That Be Your Last Battlefield took on America's racism/segregation issues and were being accused of preaching to their audience.
The Voyage Home was accused of preaching to viewers on Climate Change/animal extinction but they turned out to be right.