Mind you, Sir Keir's absurd motherhood-and-apple-pie piece in the Guardian, full of contradictions, can hardly help his cause either.
Lisa has been by far the best of the candidates so far. Arguably helped by lack of pressure (no one expects her to actually win), but on the other hand she was first to the Andrew Neil grilling, which does her great credit.
Yes, she's been saying some interesting things (as has Jess Phillips). But that's not enough.
Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips have both been compelling and interesting voices. They are also both principled people that stuck to their positions and spoke up for them. Starmer meanwhile is white, pale and stale. The only time he stood up to Corbyn was to force him into a Brexit position that worsened the scale of defeat at the election.
Both are complete donkeys, neither could run a bath.
Speaking of running, I watched the local half marathon at the weekend, one of the runners was dressed as a chicken , another an egg. I thought it would be interesting to see the finish!
IDK, but I think there's a lot of wishful thinking on Nandy. She's made more of a splash than others have in this early period, but it just feels like the fundamentals favour RLB and Starmer too much. Maybe good union endorsements will change that.
Nandy has nothing to lose. She is having such a good campaign that no winner will dare keep her out of a big shadow post.
Surely RLB would? Nandy has criticised the messiah in far too direct a way to go unpunished. And as isam notes below, RLB has a good chance even with concerns about the 'poll'. She's offering a lot of the members what they want - the same thing as now, but packaged better (they hope).
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
Mind you, Sir Keir's absurd motherhood-and-apple-pie piece in the Guardian, full of contradictions, can hardly help his cause either.
Lisa has been by far the best of the candidates so far. Arguably helped by lack of pressure (no one expects her to actually win), but on the other hand she was first to the Andrew Neil grilling, which does her great credit.
Yes, she's been saying some interesting things (as has Jess Phillips). But that's not enough.
Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips have both been compelling and interesting voices. They are also both principled people that stuck to their positions and spoke up for them. Starmer meanwhile is white, pale and stale. The only time he stood up to Corbyn was to force him into a Brexit position that worsened the scale of defeat at the election.
Both are complete donkeys, neither could run a bath.
Speaking of running, I watched the local half marathon at the weekend, one of the runners was dressed as a chicken , another an egg. I thought it would be interesting to see the finish!
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
NickP rated Corbyn highly. He is yet to make his mind up on the current contenders.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
Mind you, Sir Keir's absurd motherhood-and-apple-pie piece in the Guardian, full of contradictions, can hardly help his cause either.
Lisa has been by far the best of the candidates so far. Arguably helped by lack of pressure (no one expects her to actually win), but on the other hand she was first to the Andrew Neil grilling, which does her great credit.
Yes, she's been saying some interesting things (as has Jess Phillips). But that's not enough.
Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips have both been compelling and interesting voices. They are also both principled people that stuck to their positions and spoke up for them. Starmer meanwhile is white, pale and stale. The only time he stood up to Corbyn was to force him into a Brexit position that worsened the scale of defeat at the election.
Both are complete donkeys, neither could run a bath.
Speaking of running, I watched the local half marathon at the weekend, one of the runners was dressed as a chicken , another an egg. I thought it would be interesting to see the finish!
IDK, but I think there's a lot of wishful thinking on Nandy. She's made more of a splash than others have in this early period, but it just feels like the fundamentals favour RLB and Starmer too much. Maybe good union endorsements will change that.
Nandy has nothing to lose. She is having such a good campaign that no winner will dare keep her out of a big shadow post.
Surely RLB would? Nandy has criticised the messiah in far too direct a way to go unpunished. And as isam notes below, RLB has a good chance even with concerns about the 'poll'. She's offering a lot of the members what they want - the same thing as now, but packaged better (they hope).
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
Mind you, Sir Keir's absurd motherhood-and-apple-pie piece in the Guardian, full of contradictions, can hardly help his cause either.
Lisa has been by far the best of the candidates so far. Arguably helped by lack of pressure (no one expects her to actually win), but on the other hand she was first to the Andrew Neil grilling, which does her great credit.
Yes, she's been saying some interesting things (as has Jess Phillips). But that's not enough.
Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips have both been compelling and interesting voices. They are also both principled people that stuck to their positions and spoke up for them. Starmer meanwhile is white, pale and stale. The only time he stood up to Corbyn was to force him into a Brexit position that worsened the scale of defeat at the election.
Both are complete donkeys, neither could run a bath.
Would you have Nandy as the better of the two? (I would)
If the ability to run a bath is key then Labour will be a smelly lot for a long while.
Their next leader is important though. As a Tory I just want to see the least dangerous of them. I think that's Nandy. She's also the most likely to actually win a GE, but I can take that risk in that there won't be the frothing lunacy of Long-Bailey (much improved from Corbyn though) or the weird sleaziness and not quite definable thing that is Starmer.
Nandy definitely better than Phillips by a mile, Tories should be praying for RLB or Phillips, both of them are losers.
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
Although Gibraltar stayed a part of the UK, and became a mafia microstate*, so not entirely convinced that argument holds.
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
And he never weighed more than a hundred pounds.
The Madison Diet alone would have got him elected.....
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
FDR wasn't very tall most of the time
(I feel I can get away with this as a wheelchair user myself!)
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Well, it was achieved by bribing Irish MPs to give up sovereignty, and thereafter followed by religious bars in public life against the majority, regular periods of martial law and retraction of civil liberties, not to mention famine, until the 1920s. In the northern part, the aforementioned (except the famine) continued until the 1990s. Parliament passed a martial law measure in Ireland about once a year, against the wishes of its MPs. The extent to which this is democratic is up to you, but it is certainly colonial.
I definitely trust YouGov over Survation but this poll scared me into joining the Labour Party, leaving the Tories unopposed for the next 5 years and in office for the next 10 is quite a terrifying prospect.
Labour has a male female crisis in its top team regardless who wins. Starmer is the leading man in labour and he’s about as exciting as half drunk five day old bottle of volvic. So, if based solely on merit and talent the cabinet of the next leader will look like one of those bizarre sci fi movies where women have taken over. LOTO if not Starmer a woman, sCoE a woman, shomsec a woman, sFS a woman, deputy leader is a woman, etc etc etc. Inevitable result of such lack of balance going into next GE = catastrophic defeat.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
Why is Abruzzo in Italy supposed to be a part of the Commonwealth Union?
I explained:
Core membership based around the six majority English-speaking "Anglosphere" countries: Australia, Canada, Republic of Ireland, New Zealand, United Kingdom and United States, along with their dependencies, external territories and associated states, and the 12 other Commonwealth Realms, which are in personal union with the UK Monarchy, as well as the 26 other European Union member states, which are in political union with the UK and Ireland, along with their dependencies and external territories.
I still think Starmer is certain to lose a run off against either Long-Bailey or Nandy In fact my bet tonight is Nandy wins because the left are seeing her as the stop Kier and the Labour moderates seizing control of Labour and undoing all the good work of recent years. Why would they throw their weight behind Nandy and not Long-Bailey? Because if this moment in time continues it Lisa who looks like a winner not Bex.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Making Sir Keir the anti establishment candidate?
The outsider, in the sense he’ll have none of the machine helping him.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
So Arsenal should sign Pinckney then, not Madison?
YES ask the Overseas Territories to send MPs. If nothing else, as in France, it will add a delicious exoticism to General Elex.
“We’re still waiting for the vote from the sub Antarctic, so, over to the Caribbean, and the Cayman Islands... no, wait, I’n hearing that Bermuda is on a knife edge”
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
I definitely trust YouGov over Survation but this poll scared me into joining the Labour Party, leaving the Tories unopposed for the next 5 years and in office for the next 10 is quite a terrifying prospect.
I suspect there are some members, who may have been considering Nandy or Phillips, who will be scared by this into getting behind Starmer now. Starmer is still likely ahead IMHO, but it shows us Corbynsceptics really can't get complacent. As for the deputy leadership, I think the question is merely whether Rayner wins in the first round or not. I really can't see any realistic way she can lose this now.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
How tall is he?
Ed Miliband comes across as short, but in real life he’s just off six foot. Stature sometimes isn’t dependent on actual height.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
So Arsenal should sign Pinckney then, not Madison?
Sadly, football related puns are wasted on me. I’ve heard of Arsenal, but that’s about it.
Mind you, Sir Keir's absurd motherhood-and-apple-pie piece in the Guardian, full of contradictions, can hardly help his cause either.
Lisa has been by far the best of the candidates so far. Arguably helped by lack of pressure (no one expects her to actually win), but on the other hand she was first to the Andrew Neil grilling, which does her great credit.
Yes, she's been saying some interesting things (as has Jess Phillips). But that's not enough.
Fully agreed.
What’s your assessment of her chances of winning the Unite endorsement? And, if she does, it’s effect on her chances of victory?
Long-Bailey is nailed on for Unite. Nandy looks like she’ll get the GMB.
Lisa will get GMB. I wouldn’t say it’s nailed on that Becky gets Unite. Probable, but not nailed on.
If Nandy gets Unite it would be huge. It would show the hard left is in a state of total civil war.
I must admit I know not the actual mechanism for the Unite nomination. Does its Executive Council actually wield any power, or does Red Len simply decide and the rest is window dressing?
Len answered this himself. They will have a husting/grilling of the candidates in front the executive and then the executive will vote.
Of course not voting same way as Stalin, sorry Len = gulag, sorry I mean labour democracy 2020
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Making Sir Keir the anti establishment candidate?
The outsider, in the sense he’ll have none of the machine helping him.
Just kidding, I can see why he is not the establishment candidate in the context of Corbyn’s Labour. It just amused me to remember how people refused to see JRM or Farage as anti establishment at the referendum, because they were posh/privileged, when the establishment being referred to was that of Cameron/Osborne/Clegg, of which Rees-Mogg and Farage were outsiders
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
How tall is he?
Ed Miliband comes across as short, but in real life he’s just off six foot. Stature sometimes isn’t dependent on actual height.
It's more likely that a left-wing Labour government would incorporate the overseas territories. A Conservative government would never do so. The reasons for this are left as an exercise to the reader, but the motive is fairly base.
We shouldn’t just be asking for the Overseas Territories to send MPs, we should be confidently asking what parts of the Commonwealth might rejoin the UK.
Belize is a sure thing, and we should say Yes. Beautiful chunk of Central America.
Tuvalu and Kiribati in Polynesia are a good bet.
Probably too late to entice the Seychelles home, which is a shame
Labour has a male female crisis in its top team regardless who wins. Starmer is the leading man in labour and he’s about as exciting as half drunk five day old bottle of volvic. So, if based solely on merit and talent the cabinet of the next leader will look like one of those bizarre sci fi movies where women have taken over. LOTO if not Starmer a woman, sCoE a woman, shomsec a woman, sFS a woman, deputy leader is a woman, etc etc etc. Inevitable result of such lack of balance going into next GE = catastrophic defeat.
I like the new Excite-ometer Scale you have developed..... I look forward to further reference points, a la Beaufort Scale.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
So Arsenal should sign Pinckney then, not Madison?
Sadly, football related puns are wasted on me. I’ve heard of Arsenal, but that’s about it.
Let’s talk Paleontology then. A new Rex has been discovered called Gunnersaurus.
It's more likely that a left-wing Labour government would incorporate the overseas territories. A Conservative government would never do so. The reasons for this are left as an exercise to the reader, but the motive is fairly base.
Immigration
It really depends on the size of the country related to its population and culture. France recently reincorporated the troubled, Muslim, Indian Ocean Island of Mayotte as a fully-fledged departement. Which shows that 1. This stuff actually happens, and 2. France is “brave”
We don’t have to be that brave, but if we are feeling really brave we should reincorporate Papua New Guinea.
Nearly all of these territories are under the British Crown already, so the constitutional leap will not be enormous
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
Incidentally, if you want an entertaining glimpse into Brexit-as-others-see-it, I recommend a Twitter search amongst right wing French nationalists, of which there are very many.
About half of them think Brexit is a proof that Britain is an abject puppet of America, and this is the final and most pathetic example, and we are about to be force fed chlorinated chicken like geese being fattened for foie gras. These same people confusingly fear us as cleverly plotting to bring down the EU.
Frexiteers, meanwhile (and again there are lots) think Brexit is a shining example of what a truly sovereign nation can do, if it is still brave enough, and that Britain must - albeit through gritted French teeth - be praised as a noble pioneer. The same people think France would do Frexit much better than silly Britain.
We shouldn’t just be asking for the Overseas Territories to send MPs, we should be confidently asking what parts of the Commonwealth might rejoin the UK.
Belize is a sure thing, and we should say Yes. Beautiful chunk of Central America.
Tuvalu and Kiribati in Polynesia are a good bet.
Probably too late to entice the Seychelles home, which is a shame
Even if they wanted to there doesn't seem much appetite to expand what the UK is anymore. Neocolonialism, harking after empire or whatever.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
Momentum can be important. Corbyn himself got it (in several ways of course). But sometimes the fundamentals limit how much momentum might help. How much do the membership want things to change after the drubbing that was just received? How much change do they think she is offering (which may not be what she is actually offering) and how much do people who would not normally like her change still back her?
I suspect there are some members, who may have been considering Nandy or Phillips, who will be scared by this into getting behind Starmer now. Starmer is still likely ahead IMHO, but it shows us Corbynsceptics really can't get complacent.
No, it's AV.
After looking at the detailed numbers of that poll and seeing that even the silver lining for Nandy is an illusion (most of her 2nd preferences come from Starmer), I am very pessimistic. But that's no reason not to vote for her.
I don't particularly like Starmer (like everyone else, I'm a Nandy-man), but up until now he's always looked to me to have the advantage that he looks like a Prime Minister. But! It now appears he's very short! We now that the tallest candidate always wins in the US Presidential contests. Is the same true of British elections? Neil Kinnock, as I remember, was absolutely tiny - like a normal Welshman, but to 4/5 scale.
Madison was five inches shorter than Pinckney.
So Arsenal should sign Pinckney then, not Madison?
Sadly, football related puns are wasted on me. I’ve heard of Arsenal, but that’s about it.
Let’s talk Paleontology then. A new Rex has been discovered called Gunnersaurus.
We shouldn’t just be asking for the Overseas Territories to send MPs, we should be confidently asking what parts of the Commonwealth might rejoin the UK.
Belize is a sure thing, and we should say Yes. Beautiful chunk of Central America.
Tuvalu and Kiribati in Polynesia are a good bet.
Probably too late to entice the Seychelles home, which is a shame
Even if they wanted to there doesn't seem much appetite to expand what the UK is anymore. Neocolonialism, harking after empire or whatever.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
Momentum can be important. Corbyn himself got it (in several ways of course). But sometimes the fundamentals limit how much momentum might help. How much do the membership want things to change after the drubbing that was just received? How much change do they think she is offering (which may not be what she is actually offering) and how much do people who would not normally like her change still back her?
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
It's more likely that a left-wing Labour government would incorporate the overseas territories. A Conservative government would never do so. The reasons for this are left as an exercise to the reader, but the motive is fairly base.
Immigration
It really depends on the size of the country related to its population and culture. France recently reincorporated the troubled, Muslim, Indian Ocean Island of Mayotte as a fully-fledged departement. Which shows that 1. This stuff actually happens, and 2. France is “brave”
We don’t have to be that brave, but if we are feeling really brave we should reincorporate Papua New Guinea.
Nearly all of these territories are under the British Crown already, so the constitutional leap will not be enormous
Papua New Guinea?
That would be extremely brave. It makes rural Pakistan look developed.
Labour has a male female crisis in its top team regardless who wins. Starmer is the leading man in labour and he’s about as exciting as half drunk five day old bottle of volvic. So, if based solely on merit and talent the cabinet of the next leader will look like one of those bizarre sci fi movies where women have taken over. LOTO if not Starmer a woman, sCoE a woman, shomsec a woman, sFS a woman, deputy leader is a woman, etc etc etc. Inevitable result of such lack of balance going into next GE = catastrophic defeat.
Because of course history says that it's impossible to win elections if you have a big gender imbalance in your cabinet....
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
We shouldn’t just be asking for the Overseas Territories to send MPs, we should be confidently asking what parts of the Commonwealth might rejoin the UK.
Belize is a sure thing, and we should say Yes. Beautiful chunk of Central America.
Tuvalu and Kiribati in Polynesia are a good bet.
Probably too late to entice the Seychelles home, which is a shame
Even if they wanted to there doesn't seem much appetite to expand what the UK is anymore. Neocolonialism, harking after empire or whatever.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momenbetting on.
Momentum can be important. Corbyn himself got it (in several ways of course). But sometimes the fundamentals limit how much momentum might help. How much do the membership want things to change after the drubbing that was just received? How much change do they think she is offering (which may not be what she is actually offering) and how much do people who would not normally like her change still back her?
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
Empire might be making a comeback (if not in that specific example), but I doubt using that term.
Though I've been reading Vanished Kingdoms by Norman Davies, and frankly states (or polities) existing at all seems to be so bloody convoluted and fragile I'm amazed any make it past 50 years!
It's more likely that a left-wing Labour government would incorporate the overseas territories. A Conservative government would never do so. The reasons for this are left as an exercise to the reader, but the motive is fairly base.
Immigration
It really depends on the size of the country related to its population and culture. France recently reincorporated the troubled, Muslim, Indian Ocean Island of Mayotte as a fully-fledged departement. Which shows that 1. This stuff actually happens, and 2. France is “brave”
We don’t have to be that brave, but if we are feeling really brave we should reincorporate Papua New Guinea.
Nearly all of these territories are under the British Crown already, so the constitutional leap will not be enormous
France has full FOM with and gives parliamentary representation to its inhabited overseas possessions and has done for decades. Upgrading Mayotte to a full DOM is an administrative exercise and doesn’t give its people any enhanced access to metropolitan France.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
Sounds plausible. Do you think RLB or SKS would seen an improvement in fortunes, or stagnation?
It's more likely that a left-wing Labour government would incorporate the overseas territories. A Conservative government would never do so. The reasons for this are left as an exercise to the reader, but the motive is fairly base.
Immigration
It really depends on the size of the country related to its population and culture. France recently reincorporated the troubled, Muslim, Indian Ocean Island of Mayotte as a fully-fledged departement. Which shows that 1. This stuff actually happens, and 2. France is “brave”
We don’t have to be that brave, but if we are feeling really brave we should reincorporate Papua New Guinea.
Nearly all of these territories are under the British Crown already, so the constitutional leap will not be enormous
Papua New Guinea?
That would be extremely brave. It makes rural Pakistan look developed.
It wasn’t even British. It was colonized by Australia and Germany.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
Nandy cant win not sure her current odds are that generous.
Fact is it's a 2 horse race
If you are not green on RLB and SKS you are going to lose money.
Empire might be making a comeback (if not in that specific example), but I doubt using that term.
Though I've been reading Vanished Kingdoms by Norman Davies, and frankly states existing at all seems to be so bloody convoluted and fragile I'm amazed any make it past 50 years!
***
The continuance of British Crown rule has now gone beyond an anachronism, into being a Definite Thing, to my mind. It is Brand Britain, and people want a part of it.
We have now had two referendums in entirely developed, self confident countries, where this had been tested. Australia, with the vote on a republic, and New Zealand, with the vote on the flag. Both voted to retain their British ties, real or symbolic.
FFS we should be capitalising on this, not apologising for it. Countries like Scotland WANT to be loyal servants to the Crown in London. Let us avail them
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
A political union?
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
I don't get the deal with Nandy, or why she is even a candidate. She seems pleasant but very uncharismatic. And she has no record to speak of.
Same reason why some people liked Rory Stewart, Dan Jarvis, John Kasich, Jon Huntsman, John McCain, Tony Blair. Blair actually won but criticising his own party wasn't all he had going for him by the mid-90s.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
This vote is about who wins the Labour Party and the Left always takes the long view.
I don't get the deal with Nandy, or why she is even a candidate. She seems pleasant but very uncharismatic. And she has no record to speak of.
I found her pretence of considering supporting a Brexit deal but never sullying herself to do so irritating and disingenuous at best, but I'd say she has a certain level of charisma and has shown some measure of critical thinking. I feel like she might be perceived as lacking presence, for want of a better word, in a way that Thornberry for example does not. She needs a chance to show some steel, and I do think she is being talked up too much out of hope.
But as to having no record to speak of, I don't even know what that means. What sort of record should someone have to be LOTO, or even PM? There are senior positions we might regard as useful indications of quality but they are not essential and nothing truly compares to the top job. Record of her views? She's surely stated views on many topics before, what is required to prove their worth? Would younger candidates' inability to demonstrate decades of passionate yet fruitless campaigning be a hindrance?
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
Sounds plausible. Do you think RLB or SKS would seen an improvement in fortunes, or stagnation?
I dont see Lab even back to 2017 levels in 2024 never mind forming a Government.
Under Nandy the Blue formally red wall may return depending how BREXIT goes.
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
A political union?
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
It would end up like East and West Pakistan.
NZ is a beautiful, smart, remote, developed, sparsely populated group of South Pacific islands, under the British Crown. It is a perfect fit with the UK. They get to feel connected to the centre of the world, especially London, we get to feel we’ve got somewhere to escape to, if it all turns to shit.
Do it. I genuinely wonder if NZ would agree. Sold properly, I think they might. Oz is trickier.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
This vote is about who wins the Labour Party and the Left always takes the long view.
I'm a Corbynite but we lost RLB is not a future PM.
The long game for me is a Lab Govt.
Nandy does a Kinnock in 2024
RLB/SKS dont even get us close to 2017 levels unless BREXIT is a complete disaster 30 to 40 seats better off in 2024 with Nandy compared to Mr or Mrs Boring
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
A political union?
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
It would end up like East and West Pakistan.
NZ is a beautiful, smart, remote, developed, sparsely populated group of South Pacific islands, under the British Crown. It is a perfect fit with the UK. They get to feel connected to the centre of the world, especially London, we get to feel we’ve got somewhere to escape to, if it all turns to shit.
Do it. I genuinely wonder if NZ would agree. Sold properly, I think they might. Oz is trickier.
Australia has already rejected any loosening of movement between them and the UK
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
That's bottling it. Ask yourself: "Leaving aside Lisa Nandy, of the remaining candidates, who* would Boris Johnson most want to be next Labour leader?" And then cast a preference vote for every candidate bar that one.
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
A political union?
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
It would end up like East and West Pakistan.
NZ is a beautiful, smart, remote, developed, sparsely populated group of South Pacific islands, under the British Crown. It is a perfect fit with the UK. They get to feel connected to the centre of the world, especially London, we get to feel we’ve got somewhere to escape to, if it all turns to shit.
Do it. I genuinely wonder if NZ would agree. Sold properly, I think they might. Oz is trickier.
Point of pedantry but New Zealand is not “under the British Crown”. Like the other “Dominions” of the day, and “Commonwealth realms” today, it has had a legally separate monarchy since it adopted the Statute of Westminster in 1947.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ul
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
This vote is about who wins the Labour Party and the Left always takes the long view.
I'm a Corbynite but we lost RLB is not a future PM.
The long game for me is a Lab Govt.
Nandy does a Kinnock in 2024
RLB/SKS dont even get us close to 2017 levels unless BREXIT is a complete disaster 30 to 40 seats better off in 2024 with Nandy compared to Mr or Mrs Boring
This is pretty much bang on. Nandy is the best bet.
The Total Tory refusal to give a new indyref (Completely rightly) will also open up Scotland, which a northern MP like Nandy will be better able to exploit. I predict the Nats will descend into civil war between the ultras who want UDI and the civics, like Sturgeon, who will say they must wait. Also Salmond will shortly be in court for rape.
I don't get the deal with Nandy, or why she is even a candidate. She seems pleasant but very uncharismatic. And she has no record to speak of.
Same reason why some people liked Rory Stewart, Dan Jarvis, John Kasich, Jon Huntsman, John McCain, Tony Blair. Blair actually won but criticising his own party wasn't all he had going for him by the mid-90s.
I can't help thinking there were other reasons why John McCain was so well-liked.
I thought they 'defeated divisive nationalists - in places like Catalonia' by cracking granny skulls and imprisoning elected politicians. I'm sure that's not what Nandy meant, right?
Aren't (some) Catalan nationalists currently propping up the socialists in Spain?
They are. Unionist parties having won most votes in Catalonia in the November 2019 general election.
Unionist parties won most votes in Scotland in last month's general election too but glad to see Nandy prepared to stand up to Nats much as the Spanish have done (even without the referendum we gave the Scots in 2014)
A union with New Zealand would be both popular, and practical, in both countries
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
A political union?
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
It would end up like East and West Pakistan.
NZ is a beautiful, smart, remote, developed, sparsely populated group of South Pacific islands, under the British Crown. It is a perfect fit with the UK. They get to feel connected to the centre of the world, especially London, we get to feel we’ve got somewhere to escape to, if it all turns to shit.
Do it. I genuinely wonder if NZ would agree. Sold properly, I think they might. Oz is trickier.
Australia has already rejected any loosening of movement between them and the UK
Fair enough, but an equal points system for Australia and the EU would be reasonable. New Zealand however is closer culturally and economically to the UK than Australia is, Australia is closer to the USA
I definitely trust YouGov over Survation but this poll scared me into joining the Labour Party, leaving the Tories unopposed for the next 5 years and in office for the next 10 is quite a terrifying prospect.
I suspect there are some members, who may have been considering Nandy or Phillips, who will be scared by this into getting behind Starmer now. Starmer is still likely ahead IMHO, but it shows us Corbynsceptics really can't get complacent. As for the deputy leadership, I think the question is merely whether Rayner wins in the first round or not. I really can't see any realistic way she can lose this now.
IIUC it's AV so no need to put Starmer first for tactical reasons.
I'm very happy for the left to have somebody they like as deputy - they pushed the party into a ditch but you can't deny they were pushing...
In the fifties Malta voted for a similar arrangement with the UK, but in those days British Governments didn't recognise referendums. A change of government led to independence rather than integration.
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
Imagine if Malta was a fully integrated part of the UK, Britain would have a nice holiday place without needing Iberia or another EU country and Malta would not be a mafia micro-state.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
Although Gibraltar stayed a part of the UK, and became a mafia microstate*, so not entirely convinced that argument holds.
I reckon the fact there are no Corbynistas on here has given us a really distorted, echo chamber view of the race. RLB has just been written off because no one agrees with her
I don’t think anyone who knows the Labour party would have written her off. We all know it’s going to be very close. Long-Bailey is the establishment candidate with sll the organisational benefits that brings.
Is she though? These things go on real momentum not contrived factions. If the wet Starmer looks like winning and Nandy looks better bet than the currently underperforming Long-Bailey at stopping him, unions will come out for Nandy instead. Interesting few weeks ahead.
The unions get you on the ballot, then it's one member one vote. Long-Bailey will have more tools at her disposal to contact those members on a more regular basis. In a tight race it will be a huge advantage.
Are you underestimating Nandys momentum? Widely praised for recent speech’s and media performances, uncompromising change tack to win message is almost Blairesque not in its ideology but in its smack of determined leadership, and unions coming out for her. Nandy is the only candidate who currently has momentum so the only one we should be betting on.
She was my number one choice before I saw the Labour List poll! Nandy undoubtedly has Momentum, but ultimately the electorate will split in two: those who want continuity Corbyn and those who don’t. The former will vote Long-Bailey, the latter whoever is thought best placed to beat her, or Keir Starmer to put it another way.
I'm voting Nandy first preference.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
Sounds plausible. Do you think RLB or SKS would seen an improvement in fortunes, or stagnation?
I dont see Lab even back to 2017 levels in 2024 never mind forming a Government.
Under Nandy the Blue formally red wall may return depending how BREXIT goes.
Nandy could get back to biggest party st a push.
She does not look or sound prime minister material. That said, we currently have a clown for PM for treats an announcement about N Ireland as though he is announcing a game show final, so anything is possible. The answer for Labour is to find a leader that looks and sounds credible. Starmer is closest to this mould. Nandy is way off.
YES ask the Overseas Territories to send MPs. If nothing else, as in France, it will add a delicious exoticism to General Elex.
“We’re still waiting for the vote from the sub Antarctic, so, over to the Caribbean, and the Cayman Islands... no, wait, I’n hearing that Bermuda is on a knife edge”
Splendid. Do it.
I am in Bermuda tomorrow so will give you an up to the minute report.
Comments
On the other hand Irish Republicans still refer to British "colonial rule" despite Ireland having had more MP's at Westminster than Scotland did.
France would have even kept Algeria if not for De Gaulle deciding otherwise, it was fully politically integrated into the French Republic.
British Governments as usual were fools to reject it, free land by the sunny beach and they said no.
* Albeit not as bad a one as Malta
The Madison Diet alone would have got him elected.....
(I feel I can get away with this as a wheelchair user myself!)
Richmond Park: Starmer and Rayner
Bosworth: Starmer and Rayner
So, if based solely on merit and talent the cabinet of the next leader will look like one of those bizarre sci fi movies where women have taken over. LOTO if not Starmer a woman, sCoE a woman, shomsec a woman, sFS a woman, deputy leader is a woman, etc etc etc. Inevitable result of such lack of balance going into next GE = catastrophic defeat.
Core membership based around the six majority English-speaking "Anglosphere" countries: Australia, Canada, Republic of Ireland, New Zealand, United Kingdom and United States, along with their dependencies, external territories and associated states, and the 12 other Commonwealth Realms, which are in personal union with the UK Monarchy, as well as the 26 other European Union member states, which are in political union with the UK and Ireland, along with their dependencies and external territories.
In fact my bet tonight is Nandy wins because the left are seeing her as the stop Kier and the Labour moderates seizing control of Labour and undoing all the good work of recent years. Why would they throw their weight behind Nandy and not Long-Bailey? Because if this moment in time continues it Lisa who looks like a winner not Bex.
So Arsenal should sign Pinckney then, not Madison?
“We’re still waiting for the vote from the sub Antarctic, so, over to the Caribbean, and the Cayman Islands... no, wait, I’n hearing that Bermuda is on a knife edge”
Splendid. Do it.
As for the deputy leadership, I think the question is merely whether Rayner wins in the first round or not. I really can't see any realistic way she can lose this now.
Of course not voting same way as Stalin, sorry Len = gulag, sorry I mean labour democracy 2020
Belize is a sure thing, and we should say Yes. Beautiful chunk of Central America.
Tuvalu and Kiribati in Polynesia are a good bet.
Probably too late to entice the Seychelles home, which is a shame
It really depends on the size of the country related to its population and culture. France recently reincorporated the troubled, Muslim, Indian Ocean Island of Mayotte as a fully-fledged departement. Which shows that 1. This stuff actually happens, and 2. France is “brave”
We don’t have to be that brave, but if we are feeling really brave we should reincorporate Papua New Guinea.
Nearly all of these territories are under the British Crown already, so the constitutional leap will not be enormous
About half of them think Brexit is a proof that Britain is an abject puppet of America, and this is the final and most pathetic example, and we are about to be force fed chlorinated chicken like geese being fattened for foie gras. These same people confusingly fear us as cleverly plotting to bring down the EU.
Frexiteers, meanwhile (and again there are lots) think Brexit is a shining example of what a truly sovereign nation can do, if it is still brave enough, and that Britain must - albeit through gritted French teeth - be praised as a noble pioneer. The same people think France would do Frexit much better than silly Britain.
Scenes.
After looking at the detailed numbers of that poll and seeing that even the silver lining for Nandy is an illusion (most of her 2nd preferences come from Starmer), I am very pessimistic. But that's no reason not to vote for her.
As the Sussexes head to Canada, to rule, by celebrity, that British Dominion, I wonder if Empire is having a bit of a comeback. It is so much more glamorous than boring old trading-bloc-expansion, the last century version of the same.
That would be extremely brave. It makes rural Pakistan look developed.
Not sure I will state a 2nd preference.
I dont think RLB or SKS will win a GE.
Nandy just might.
Unfortunately Nandy will come 3rd I think
Though I've been reading Vanished Kingdoms by Norman Davies, and frankly states (or polities) existing at all seems to be so bloody convoluted and fragile I'm amazed any make it past 50 years!
Fact is it's a 2 horse race
If you are not green on RLB and SKS you are going to lose money.
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Empire might be making a comeback (if not in that specific example), but I doubt using that term.
Though I've been reading Vanished Kingdoms by Norman Davies, and frankly states existing at all seems to be so bloody convoluted and fragile I'm amazed any make it past 50 years!
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The continuance of British Crown rule has now gone beyond an anachronism, into being a Definite Thing, to my mind. It is Brand Britain, and people want a part of it.
We have now had two referendums in entirely developed, self confident countries, where this had been tested. Australia, with the vote on a republic, and New Zealand, with the vote on the flag. Both voted to retain their British ties, real or symbolic.
FFS we should be capitalising on this, not apologising for it. Countries like Scotland WANT to be loyal servants to the Crown in London. Let us avail them
Where would government sit? What economies of scale are there with administration?
From a trade perspective, NZ exports commodities, while we export (largely) services. We would have very different priorities in negotiations.
What if NZ was booming and the UK was suffering, who would interest rates be set for?
It would end up like East and West Pakistan.
But as to having no record to speak of, I don't even know what that means. What sort of record should someone have to be LOTO, or even PM? There are senior positions we might regard as useful indications of quality but they are not essential and nothing truly compares to the top job. Record of her views? She's surely stated views on many topics before, what is required to prove their worth? Would younger candidates' inability to demonstrate decades of passionate yet fruitless campaigning be a hindrance?
Under Nandy the Blue formally red wall may return depending how BREXIT goes.
Nandy could get back to biggest party st a push.
Do it. I genuinely wonder if NZ would agree. Sold properly, I think they might. Oz is trickier.
The long game for me is a Lab Govt.
Nandy does a Kinnock in 2024
RLB/SKS dont even get us close to 2017 levels unless BREXIT is a complete disaster 30 to 40 seats better off in 2024 with Nandy compared to Mr or Mrs Boring
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/07/brexit-australian-trade-minister-cant-imagine-visa-free-travel-deal-with-uk
*The answer is almost certainly RLB.
The Total Tory refusal to give a new indyref (Completely rightly) will also open up Scotland, which a northern MP like Nandy will be better able to exploit. I predict the Nats will descend into civil war between the ultras who want UDI and the civics, like Sturgeon, who will say they must wait. Also Salmond will shortly be in court for rape.
I'm very happy for the left to have somebody they like as deputy - they pushed the party into a ditch but you can't deny they were pushing...
None of these countries want to be ruled by Britain. Get a grip.