I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.
Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.
But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
I think that is probably right, and have previously raised the rebuttal problem here: parties cannot respond to claims if they do not know those claims are being made in the first place.
Poor old Jeremy: unable to effectively rebut holding a position he's expressed, in writing, dozens of times, because it's "only" being plastered all over the internet.
Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.
All three parties will also be led by men representing London seats.
At long last. Men and Londoners - the forgotten minorities.
Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.
All three parties will also be led by men representing London seats.
At long last. Men and Londoners - the forgotten minorities.
Not just any men but white men, the true minority.
Although in their defence, Sir Keir is the only one of those three with impeccable working class roots.
I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.
Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.
And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?
You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
Why? It'#s massively entertaining watching a bunch of self-important pricks turn into red faced blobs that look like they're being wanked to death by a seven handed gorilla.
We've had to listen to endless Remainer snobbery, sneering and generalised stupid twattishness for three and half years. Suddenly it is all worth it. Payback time!
You're breaking character again. Byronic voted Remain.
I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.
Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.
But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
Yes, but that is looking at it the wrong way round. The mystery isn't that voters were put off by Corbyn's IRA sympathies in 2019, it is that they weren't in 2017. Part of what happened was simply that the Conservative 2017 campaign was so abysmal that Corbyn and McDonnell got a virtually free ride, which was less the case in 2019. I suspect that there were two reasons why voters wised up in 2019: firstly the anti-Semitism scandal in Labour made them look again at Corbyn, and secondly the Conservatives probably did do some good targeted campaigning on social media.
The EU is definitely losing a member, so not quite intact. However, with 27 other members it can be somewhat sanguine about losses compared with the loss to the United Kingdom of just one nation, which could be fatal.
If you think the European Union will outlive the United Kingdom, it is rational to prioritise the relationship with it.
Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.
Oh.
To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.
eg Germany, Italy, Austria.
So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.
However, it is now being addressed.
Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?
It is now, in part, resolved.
There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices
I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
Understood, but if you were entirely right one would expect to see investment into the UK collapsing. It isn't. The statistical picture is mixed, but on some measures investment is booming
"The value of foreign investment into the UK outstripped British investment abroad for only the second time on record last year, as the Americans piled in to the country and the Europeans withdrew."
‘The greatest capitalist machine that’s ever been invented by the human mind’ - Maurice Glasman
Interesting interview, talks of the reasons left wingers should have voted Leave, from about 21 mins. It’s the reason I did, and why I joined UKIP so I am obviously convinced. Would be interesting to hear others views on his reasoning
Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.
Oh.
To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.
eg Germany, Italy, Austria.
So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.
However, it is now being addressed.
Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?
It is now, in part, resolved.
There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices
I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
Understood, but if you were entirely right one would expect to see investment into the UK collapsing. It isn't. The statistical picture is mixed, but on some measures investment is booming
"The value of foreign investment into the UK outstripped British investment abroad for only the second time on record last year, as the Americans piled in to the country and the Europeans withdrew."
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.
Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.
But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
I think that is probably right, and have previously raised the rebuttal problem here: parties cannot respond to claims if they do not know those claims are being made in the first place.
Poor old Jeremy: unable to effectively rebut holding a position he's expressed, in writing, dozens of times, because it's "only" being plastered all over the internet.
That's not really the point.
Political advertising has always been contentious, but in the past, any arguments/controversies have been about posters/ads that we've all been able to see, and that were directly linked to the party promoting them.
I got lots of anti-Labour ads during the election on facebook, but none of them were from the Tory party directly. They were from proxies (local councillors, ex-SPADs etc., affiliations not mentioned in the ads), who appeared to have come into a little money recently and had decided to run their own ad campaigns (and if you believe that...)
The IRA stuff was a further level of accountability away, with ads that appear to have been shared in private groups, or targeted in a much more focused way. There would be very little scrutiny, and much more opportunity to exaggerate, or even lie.
It doesn't matter which party you support - For most people, surely that's a step in the wrong direction for democracy?
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.
Oh.
To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.
eg Germany, Italy, Austria.
So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.
However, it is now being addressed.
Uncertainty on terms of trade are just beginning.
In any case is a certain hit worse than the possibility of dodging the punch?
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
Indeed the idea that the Coalition was a mistake seems to be becoming a divine modern Lib Dem 'origin myth'. The idea the Coalition had its good points and it was a mistake for the Lib Dems not to embrace their successes is now heresy.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
I have really messed up on the Liberal leadership betting. I am red on Davey but I now reckon members will take the safe and experienced option this time.
The EU is definitely losing a member, so not quite intact. However, with 27 other members it can be somewhat sanguine about losses compared with the loss to the United Kingdom of just one nation, which could be fatal.
If you think the European Union will outlive the United Kingdom, it is rational to prioritise the relationship with it.
Henig showing his obsessions once again.
The EU won't be intact next month let alone in years to come.
If Scotland goes that is objectively less significant to our country than the UK leaving the EU.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
Er, it is.
Unless you know better than the guy who actually founded and created Twitter?
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
I wonder if Davey will apologise to Andrew Neil for his involvement in the Coalition with the same fulsome mea culpa as Jo Swinson.....
There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
Understood, but if you were entirely right one would expect to see investment into the UK collapsing. It isn't. The statistical picture is mixed, but on some measures investment is booming
"The value of foreign investment into the UK outstripped British investment abroad for only the second time on record last year, as the Americans piled in to the country and the Europeans withdrew."
The UK has its problems and Brexit will have its pains, but its daft to say we are heading into dystopia.
I wonder what Remainers will do if - heaven forbid - Brexit really isn't that bad at all. How will they cope with the cognitive dissonance?
My observations on that is that the UK has some real advantages that offset weaknesses. Brexit doesn't help but if people have good reasons for investing in the UK, Brexit probably won't stop them. The opposite is also true. If you want to stop operations in the UK anyway, the fact Brexit makes life difficult for you doesn't necessarily make a difference to your decision. We're seeing that with car manufacturing. A lot of investment decisions are marginal. You look at a number of possible locations and choose the easiest or most profitable one. Brexit is seeing many of those decisions go away from the UK.
Those FDI and Fintech figures are good, but not as good as they almost certainly would have been without Brexit. The Fintech investments in particular seem to be by American companies. A big issue there is data protection. The US has weak DP, for now, and so those are attractive investments. The EU has strict DP. The UK probably would have done well in the EU DP garden, but that option has gone now.
In summary I don't particularly expect a UK economic collapse. The relative decline will be relatively faster is where it's at, I think.
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
I wonder if Davey will apologise to Andrew Neil for his involvement in the Coalition with the same fulsome mea culpa as Jo Swinson.....
She still managed to get a few Cameroon’s from here’s vote!!
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
That is a colossal mistake because HS2 is simply about increasing capacity on a railway line was already full. This could impact in lots of those CON gains in the North West
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
That is a colossal mistake because HS2 is simply about increasing capacity on a railway line was already full. This could impact in lots of those CON gains in the North West
Just because capacity is needed doesn't justify a blank cheque where the costs won't stop escalating rapidly.
Capacity and improvements are needed in lots of places. The M6/M62 can be pretty full at the best of times too but that doesn't justify a blank cheque to expand them.
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
That is a colossal mistake because HS2 is simply about increasing capacity on a railway line was already full. This could impact in lots of those CON gains in the North West
Nelson reckons they will announce a change (London-Brum downgraded/redesigned to be cheaper), priority given to Man to Leeds line. Andy Street will be very pissed off.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
Taking the election result well I see.
What has the election got to do with it?
@Byronic follows certain people on Twitter and uses it to colour his worldview of all “Remainers”.
He’s just as guilty of being inside a bubble as Corbynistas.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
Wrong about what?
You whine on about Twitter being full of “Remainers who can’t get over Brexit”. I simply point out that Twitter is also full of far right-wing Brexitieer frothers.
Your argument that Twitter leans left-wing is rather irrelevant.
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
That is a colossal mistake because HS2 is simply about increasing capacity on a railway line was already full. This could impact in lots of those CON gains in the North West
Nelson reckons they will announce a change (London-Brum downgraded/redesigned to be cheaper), priority given to Man to Leeds line. Andy Street will be very pissed off.
Connecting the "Northern Powerhouse" parts of the rail earlier rather than later always seemed reasonable given its justifications as benefits for the North.
Though I suspect if the money being spent on HS2 were instead spent on building/improving/expanding the motorway network instead then that would be far more beneficial.
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
Ed Davey looks like a stereotype leader, if that makes sense.
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
I wonder if Davey will apologise to Andrew Neil for his involvement in the Coalition with the same fulsome mea culpa as Jo Swinson.....
I don't think so. He was quite robust in defending his actions in coalition at the LD hustings, and it didn't do him any harm. Jo was quite happy to speak up for her role in it too.
It became more of an issue in the GE with Labour/LD swing voters and tactical voters.
Compared with the fiasco of the post 2015 Tory government it will be looked back on positively as a golden period.
The Lib Dems problem is their MP gene pool is so small. The MPs they do have are pavement politicians, which is fine - it gets them elected in their constituencies - but doesn't give them the bigger picture needed for direction and leadership. Their new intake of candidates didn't get elected, which is a shame because there was some talent there. Despite her mistakes I still think Swinson would make a better leader than the eligible crop.
I think it is going to be Davey while the new intake find their feet, gain experience and develop their own personal philosophy and following.
Really nothing else makes sense. But we are talking about the Lib Dems here.
HS2 looks doomed, at least in its current form. Seems to have been a steady stream of articles saying it has problems or is going to or should be dropped since the Xmas break.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
That is a colossal mistake because HS2 is simply about increasing capacity on a railway line was already full. This could impact in lots of those CON gains in the North West
Nelson reckons they will announce a change (London-Brum downgraded/redesigned to be cheaper), priority given to Man to Leeds line. Andy Street will be very pissed off.
Connecting the "Northern Powerhouse" parts of the rail earlier rather than later always seemed reasonable given its justifications as benefits for the North.
Though I suspect if the money being spent on HS2 were instead spent on building/improving/expanding the motorway network instead then that would be far more beneficial.
There isn't really much you can do to the M62 to improve the route from Leeds to Manchester.
There is a lot you can do to improve the railway from Leeds to Manchester.
On topic: I got £3 on at 143. Seemed to be worth a punt, but I've no idea whether she has any chance or not. Maybe she does - the LibDems seem to have a strange urge to trash even further the only actual success they have had in the last half-century or more, and Ed Davey is 'tainted' with that success.
I wonder if Davey will apologise to Andrew Neil for his involvement in the Coalition with the same fulsome mea culpa as Jo Swinson.....
I don't think so. He was quite robust in defending his actions in coalition at the LD hustings, and it didn't do him any harm. Jo was quite happy to speak up for her role in it too.
It became more of an issue in the GE with Labour/LD swing voters and tactical voters.
Compared with the fiasco of the post 2015 Tory government it will be looked back on positively as a golden period.
Davey's problem is that economically he has positioned himself somewhere to the right of Boris. How does that appeal to LibDem members, let alone the wider electorate?
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
What percentage of twitter do you think comprises moany remainers?
Piece on the Overton window for democrats moving left in the US (with the usual question on whether this benefits the right by vacating the centre - I think those calculations are too simplistic);
Any reason for Bernie’s drop in price back to near parity with Biden ?
I'm fairly sure it is the Ipsos poll has him leading nationally and an Emerson poll with him leading in New Hampshire (though note it showed him down from the previous Emerson poll of NH).
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
Wrong about what?
You whine on about Twitter being full of “Remainers who can’t get over Brexit”. I simply point out that Twitter is also full of far right-wing Brexitieer frothers.
Your argument that Twitter leans left-wing is rather irrelevant.
I agree with Byronic. You're wrong and can't admit it.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
Wrong about what?
You whine on about Twitter being full of “Remainers who can’t get over Brexit”. I simply point out that Twitter is also full of far right-wing Brexitieer frothers.
Your argument that Twitter leans left-wing is rather irrelevant.
I agree with Byronic. You're wrong and can't admit it.
OK so perhaps you can answer the question: what percentage of twitter comprises moany remainers?
I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.
Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.
But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
I think that is probably right, and have previously raised the rebuttal problem here: parties cannot respond to claims if they do not know those claims are being made in the first place.
Poor old Jeremy: unable to effectively rebut holding a position he's expressed, in writing, dozens of times, because it's "only" being plastered all over the internet.
Utterly ridiculous. Cricket does itself no favours sometimes.
Celebrating in the batsman’s face like that isn’t really cricket, it’s only a minor offence and the reason he is banned is that he keeps doing such things
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
Taking the election result well I see.
What has the election got to do with it?
@Byronic follows certain people on Twitter and uses it to colour his worldview of all “Remainers”.
He’s just as guilty of being inside a bubble as Corbynistas.
Er...he's shown you multiple studies proving that Twitter is dominated by left wing/liberal group think, and as usual you've ignored the evidence and stick to your prior assumptions. You are a very stubborn and pig headed, and very god damn awful at making arguments. You should reflect but you won't.
I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.
Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.
But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
Yes, but that is looking at it the wrong way round. The mystery isn't that voters were put off by Corbyn's IRA sympathies in 2019, it is that they weren't in 2017. Part of what happened was simply that the Conservative 2017 campaign was so abysmal that Corbyn and McDonnell got a virtually free ride, which was less the case in 2019. I suspect that there were two reasons why voters wised up in 2019: firstly the anti-Semitism scandal in Labour made them look again at Corbyn, and secondly the Conservatives probably did do some good targeted campaigning on social media.
Surely the turning point was Salisbury. Up to then you could believe that Corbyn had perhaps reformed his opinions ( if you wanted to).
Then a foreign state conducted an assassination attempt on british soil where eventually unrelated british person died. Corbyn’s response was to disbelieve the evidence from UK security services, and to say that this evidence should be provided to Russia so that they had a right of reply.
If you think this proposal went down well in the red wall then I disagree, it is the type of Islington / metropolitan view that goes down well with left wing intellectuals.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
No. As, unsurprisingly, I find them very boring and dreary
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
Except it’s not. You’re just stuck in your London bubble.
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
Worldwide Twitter leans left-wing obviously. That has nothing to do with Brexit I might add.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
I never said there were no rightwingers. I said that there were way more liberals and lefties (and, hence, Remainers). There are. It's just a fact. The stats show it. Dorsey admits it. "Progressive" businesses advertise on the Twitter explicitly because of this etc etc
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
Wrong about what?
You whine on about Twitter being full of “Remainers who can’t get over Brexit”. I simply point out that Twitter is also full of far right-wing Brexitieer frothers.
Your argument that Twitter leans left-wing is rather irrelevant.
I agree with Byronic. You're wrong and can't admit it.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
Taking the election result well I see.
What has the election got to do with it?
@Byronic follows certain people on Twitter and uses it to colour his worldview of all “Remainers”.
He’s just as guilty of being inside a bubble as Corbynistas.
Er...he's shown you multiple studies proving that Twitter is dominated by left wing/liberal group think, and as usual you've ignored the evidence and stick to your prior assumptions. You are a very stubborn and pig headed, and very god damn awful at making arguments. You should reflect but you won't.
No. There’s evidence that Twitter leans left. That has nothing to do with his whining about “Remainers” in his bubble on Twitter. You’re arguing about the wrong thing.
Surely the turning point was Salisbury. Up to then you could believe that Corbyn had perhaps reformed his opinions ( if you wanted to).
Then a foreign state conducted an assassination attempt on british soil where eventually unrelated british person died. Corbyn’s response was to disbelieve the evidence from UK security services, and to say that this evidence should be provided to Russia so that they had a right of reply.
If you think this proposal went down well in the red wall then I disagree, it is the type of Islington / metropolitan view that goes down well with left wing intellectuals.
Yes you are right, Salisbury was probably one of the key points. Of course his stance on this was nothing new, but it was widely noticed.
Actually, I have just found one FBPE type on Twitter who was genuinely threatening Brexit-related-suicide last night.
Apparently the police got to him and he is OK. And possibly he is an unstable type anyway, but wow.
I wonder what Brexit Day itself will be like. Perhaps we underestimate what a wrench and a trauma it will be, for some, whereas for others it will be a gleeful triumph.
Actually, I have just found one FBPE type on Twitter who was genuinely threatening Brexit-related-suicide last night.
Apparently the police got to him and he is OK. And possibly he is an unstable type anyway, but wow.
I wonder what Brexit Day itself will be like. Perhaps we underestimate what a wrench and a trauma it will be, for some, whereas for others it will be a gleeful triumph.
I may just quietly drink through it.
Do you get off on delusions of your own superiority? Jesus.
@Byronic Twitter is also full of xenophobic far right racist leave supporters who are excited for the start of their anglo-saxon utopia. I assume you’re also following them with equal amounts of critical thinking.
Taking the election result well I see.
What has the election got to do with it?
@Byronic follows certain people on Twitter and uses it to colour his worldview of all “Remainers”.
He’s just as guilty of being inside a bubble as Corbynistas.
Er...he's shown you multiple studies proving that Twitter is dominated by left wing/liberal group think, and as usual you've ignored the evidence and stick to your prior assumptions. You are a very stubborn and pig headed, and very god damn awful at making arguments. You should reflect but you won't.
No. There’s evidence that Twitter leans left. That has nothing to do with his whining about “Remainers” in his bubble on Twitter. You’re arguing about the wrong thing.
This is now a pointless and boring argument. You specialise in them; but I can't be arsed. Enough and endex.
Actually, I have just found one FBPE type on Twitter who was genuinely threatening Brexit-related-suicide last night.
Apparently the police got to him and he is OK. And possibly he is an unstable type anyway, but wow.
I wonder what Brexit Day itself will be like. Perhaps we underestimate what a wrench and a trauma it will be, for some, whereas for others it will be a gleeful triumph.
I may just quietly drink through it.
FAR TOO LONG on twitter, my friend.
And you know what David Cameron said about transitioning international male models who spend too much time on twitter, now, don't you.
Yes, but that is looking at it the wrong way round. The mystery isn't that voters were put off by Corbyn's IRA sympathies in 2019, it is that they weren't in 2017. Part of what happened was simply that the Conservative 2017 campaign was so abysmal that Corbyn and McDonnell got a virtually free ride, which was less the case in 2019. I suspect that there were two reasons why voters wised up in 2019: firstly the anti-Semitism scandal in Labour made them look again at Corbyn, and secondly the Conservatives probably did do some good targeted campaigning on social media.
Surely the turning point was Salisbury. Up to then you could believe that Corbyn had perhaps reformed his opinions ( if you wanted to).
Then a foreign state conducted an assassination attempt on british soil where eventually unrelated british person died. Corbyn’s response was to disbelieve the evidence from UK security services, and to say that this evidence should be provided to Russia so that they had a right of reply.
If you think this proposal went down well in the red wall then I disagree, it is the type of Islington / metropolitan view that goes down well with left wing intellectuals.
Perhaps. I do also think we tend to miss an important point about 2017 when we blame the dementia tax or the Maybot, which is the two terrorist attacks during the election campaign: the Manchester Arena bomb and the London Bridge van attack and stabbings. A visitor from Mars would say these should have boosted the Conservative vote (law and order) and diminished Labour (friends of terrorists) except that it made police cuts -- Tory cuts; Home Secretary Theresa May's cuts -- a central issue.
CCHQ noticed, which is why Boris shot that fox by promising not just more police but 20,000 more: the same number Theresa May had cut. No coincidence.
Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.
All three parties will also be led by men representing London seats.
You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.
I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.
Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.
All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
Some truth in that. But as I've said before, given the abuse hurled at them by Remainers, for the last four years - and long before - it's only human to expect a little gloating and exultation in the Leave/eurosceptic camp, as we actually quit.
This will rise to a peak on 11pm Jan 31. Hardcore Remainers are probably best advised to abstain from social media. or indeed social intercourse, until that day is past.
And then - to be serious - on Feb 1 we need to reunite as a country. It won't be easy. After all this bitterness (on both sides). But it is our only hope.
And naturally Remainers are entitled to start the campaign to Rejoin, and if they do so, then good luck to them. Going on past examples it should take them about five decades.
The Remain/Rejoin campaign next time could not be worse than the last one. If they think Brexit is a disaster they only have to look at their campaign for the reason.
Peak Leaver: a Leaver blaming Remainers for the dreadful decision that they advocated.
Peak Leaver has been somewhat overused. Characteristic would be closer to the mark.
‘Peak’ comes at the end of the month. After that, it turns into meeting expectations.
Apologies for an off topic question - does anyone know whether there is any impediment to varying an English will in favour of a child born between the time of the death of the person who made the will and the will going to probate?
Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.
All three parties will also be led by men representing London seats.
Utterly ridiculous. Cricket does itself no favours sometimes.
Celebrating in the batsman’s face like that isn’t really cricket, it’s only a minor offence and the reason he is banned is that he keeps doing such things
One might note Buttler recently received a demerit for calling Philander a ‘tucking knobhead’. I like the system as it only really punishes consistently bad behaviour. The odd outburst like that just gets a conditional warning.
Apologies for an off topic question - does anyone know whether there is any impediment to varying an English will in favour of a child born between the time of the death of the person who made the will and the will going to probate?
That's a wonderful question. I've no idea what the answer is.
Edit: But given that a deed of variation can move the assets into a trust, the answer must effectively be Yes, I think, although IANAL.
Comments
Can anyone explain how Barbados 1994 or Melbourne 1998 are options but the Boycott / Greig victory in Trinidad 1974 isn't ?
https://twitter.com/GreensladeR/status/1218093808044453889?s=20
Although in their defence, Sir Keir is the only one of those three with impeccable working class roots.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1218078898010890241
The EU is definitely losing a member, so not quite intact. However, with 27 other members it can be somewhat sanguine about losses compared with the loss to the United Kingdom of just one nation, which could be fatal.
If you think the European Union will outlive the United Kingdom, it is rational to prioritise the relationship with it.
Wondering if its worth a watch?
"The value of foreign investment into the UK outstripped British investment abroad for only the second time on record last year, as the Americans piled in to the country and the Europeans withdrew."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/foreign-investment-rises-as-americans-replace-europeans-d2x0cw8gd
In some of the most crucial sectors, like tech, FDI into Britain is going postal
https://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=253432
The UK has its problems and Brexit will have its pains, but its daft to say we are heading into dystopia.
I wonder what Remainers will do if - heaven forbid - Brexit really isn't that bad at all. How will they cope with the cognitive dissonance?
Interesting interview, talks of the reasons left wingers should have voted Leave, from about 21 mins. It’s the reason I did, and why I joined UKIP so I am obviously convinced. Would be interesting to hear others views on his reasoning
https://youtu.be/Pa5vsa1FLKY
If it is still the case (and there are other factors that could be causing this lack of demand) we are in for a large recession in the near future.
Best puns already snaffled.
Political advertising has always been contentious, but in the past, any arguments/controversies have been about posters/ads that we've all been able to see, and that were directly linked to the party promoting them.
I got lots of anti-Labour ads during the election on facebook, but none of them were from the Tory party directly. They were from proxies (local councillors, ex-SPADs etc., affiliations not mentioned in the ads), who appeared to have come into a little money recently and had decided to run their own ad campaigns (and if you believe that...)
The IRA stuff was a further level of accountability away, with ads that appear to have been shared in private groups, or targeted in a much more focused way. There would be very little scrutiny, and much more opportunity to exaggerate, or even lie.
It doesn't matter which party you support - For most people, surely that's a step in the wrong direction for democracy?
Tho I doubt Twitter is anywhere near as "full of" these people as it is full of Remoaners. Twitter is a left leaning, Remainery kinda place
In any case is a certain hit worse than the possibility of dodging the punch?
The EU won't be intact next month let alone in years to come.
If Scotland goes that is objectively less significant to our country than the UK leaving the EU.
Unless you know better than the guy who actually founded and created Twitter?
https://mashable.com/article/jack-dorsey-admits-twitter-bias-is-left-leaning/
Those FDI and Fintech figures are good, but not as good as they almost certainly would have been without Brexit. The Fintech investments in particular seem to be by American companies. A big issue there is data protection. The US has weak DP, for now, and so those are attractive investments. The EU has strict DP. The UK probably would have done well in the EU DP garden, but that option has gone now.
In summary I don't particularly expect a UK economic collapse. The relative decline will be relatively faster is where it's at, I think.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/09/twitter-left-leftwing-customers-small-business
"A study has found that the social media platform’s users skew leftwards and that offers businesses opportunities – and pitfalls"
Indeed, Twitter is SO leftwing... it's owner Jack Dorsey has "recently learnt that some employees “feel silenced” by predominantly liberal voices at Twitter - as he says in an interview with New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/09/14/twitter-staff-feel-silenced-left-wing-workforce/
Utterly absurd to claim otherwise.
Today's is in Telegraph from Fraser Nelson.
But to suggest there is not a significant right-wing element is ridiculous.
The meme of “twitter is full of lib-tards” is just that. A meme.
https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1217934926852567040
Capacity and improvements are needed in lots of places. The M6/M62 can be pretty full at the best of times too but that doesn't justify a blank cheque to expand them.
Enough.
I had forgotten how boring it can be to argue on PB, when people who are clearly wrong just can't admit it. YAWN.
@Byronic follows certain people on Twitter and uses it to colour his worldview of all “Remainers”.
He’s just as guilty of being inside a bubble as Corbynistas.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-01-17/heartbeat-and-yes-minister-star-derek-fowlds-dies-aged-82/
You whine on about Twitter being full of “Remainers who can’t get over Brexit”.
I simply point out that Twitter is also full of far right-wing Brexitieer frothers.
Your argument that Twitter leans left-wing is rather irrelevant.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1218127286509166594
Though I suspect if the money being spent on HS2 were instead spent on building/improving/expanding the motorway network instead then that would be far more beneficial.
It became more of an issue in the GE with Labour/LD swing voters and tactical voters.
Compared with the fiasco of the post 2015 Tory government it will be looked back on positively as a golden period.
There is a lot you can do to improve the railway from Leeds to Manchester.
https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-am-c7f2efaa-81d0-461e-8a27-b62c6f867c3f.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
Then a foreign state conducted an assassination attempt on british soil where eventually unrelated british person died. Corbyn’s response was to disbelieve the evidence from UK security services, and to say that this evidence should be provided to Russia so that they had a right of reply.
If you think this proposal went down well in the red wall then I disagree, it is the type of Islington / metropolitan view that goes down well with left wing intellectuals.
Once is just about explicable. Twice would not be.
Apparently the police got to him and he is OK. And possibly he is an unstable type anyway, but wow.
I wonder what Brexit Day itself will be like. Perhaps we underestimate what a wrench and a trauma it will be, for some, whereas for others it will be a gleeful triumph.
I may just quietly drink through it.
Something about South Africans and Yorkshiremen or too small a sample?
Jesus.
And you know what David Cameron said about transitioning international male models who spend too much time on twitter, now, don't you.
Himself and Michelle O'Neill suffer from the nervous about to laugh syndrome.
They must be long lost relatives.
CCHQ noticed, which is why Boris shot that fox by promising not just more police but 20,000 more: the same number Theresa May had cut. No coincidence.
I like the system as it only really punishes consistently bad behaviour. The odd outburst like that just gets a conditional warning.
Edit: But given that a deed of variation can move the assets into a trust, the answer must effectively be Yes, I think, although IANAL.