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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New LAB member polling has them rating Corbyn as their most fa

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited January 21 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New LAB member polling has them rating Corbyn as their most favourable ever

Jeremy Corbyn is the most popular leader of the past century among Labour members (partly because a quarter don’t seem to know who Clement Attlee is)

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 12,499
    First like Jezza.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,210
    edited January 21
    Result distorted by influx of SWP, Tories, Greens, LDs and assorted Trot factions.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 12,499
    If I was polled, I'd be very unfavourable to Smith. It was incredibly inconsiderate of him to die when he did and thus allowing Blair to become PM.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    dr_spyn said:

    Result distorted by influx of SWP, Tories, Greens, LDs and assorted Trot factions.

    And their candidate is 4/1 to be leader
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,535
    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    A real reminder to LAB members about why so many GE2017 voters defected last month:
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited January 21
    dr_spyn said:
    I think Starmer just won the leadership election.
    He might win outright on first preferences.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,742
    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 17,864

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,742

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 8,023
    speedy2 said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think Starmer just won the leadership election.
    He might win outright on first preferences.
    Very hard to see anyone else now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,535
    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    The first paragraph was from a recording in 2016 and the rest is recent.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 17,864
    dr_spyn said:
    Blair McDougall keeping up his 100% record since 2014.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 28,877
    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    I think the central point is delusional.

    Jess Phillips hasn't just lost to the British electorate in the most crushing post-war defeat, Jeremy Corbyn has.

    Jess Phillips has lost the leadership election because the voters she needs to appeal to, are the same voters who think Jeremy Corbyn is the best leader Labour has ever had.

    The gulf in reality between regular voters who gave Jeremy Corbyn the worst Labour results ever, and party member who consider him the best ever, is one that Jess couldn't bridge.

    Doesn't mean that Jess is the wrong person to be leader, quite the opposite, once someone like Jess does become leader the Tories might lose an election.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 17,864
    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    Actually I'm probably being unfair on Blair, he does possess self awareness. It does sound incredibly unsubtle and whiny.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    RCS

    FPT

    Yes, the French treat the French Canadians like the English would treat the Americans, were we still richer and more important than them.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 28,598
    That poll suggests that Labour party members don't know much about their party's history and they have affection for leaders that don't challenge them. Leadership candidates should take note.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 29,370

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    If I had a vote, this would make me more likely to vote for Sanders. The enemy of my enemy, etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 79,777
    edited January 21
    Ramsay MacDonald has a positive net rating!

    He's a splitter who did fuck off and join the Tories.

    Labour members need some history lessons.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,742

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    Actually I'm probably being unfair on Blair, he does possess self awareness. It does sound incredibly unsubtle and whiny.
    Blair managed to win national elections. Hilary lost one winnable primary and one winnable general and otherwise won as a democrat in new York.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 79,777
    edited January 21
    Looks like the Brummie will back the working class guy. Unity.

  • speedy2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
    The trouble is it is a bit like some of what we have seen here, and it ties in with the Corbyn/Jess stuff. It is one thing to prefer Mayor Pete to Bernie or vice versa but as with Corbyn and Jess, without going OTT and tipping over into saying this guy is so far beyond the pale that erstwhile supporters should instead vote for Boris or Trump.
  • That poll suggests that Labour party members don't know much about their party's history and they have affection for leaders that don't challenge them. Leadership candidates should take note.

    well, quite.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,742

    speedy2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
    The trouble is it is a bit like some of what we have seen here, and it ties in with the Corbyn/Jess stuff. It is one thing to prefer Mayor Pete to Bernie or vice versa but as with Corbyn and Jess, without going OTT and tipping over into saying this guy is so far beyond the pale that erstwhile supporters should instead vote for Boris or Trump.
    Seems amazing to me that she hesitated to fully support Bernie against Trump
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 29,122

    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    I think the central point is delusional.

    Jess Phillips hasn't just lost to the British electorate in the most crushing post-war defeat, Jeremy Corbyn has.

    Jess Phillips has lost the leadership election because the voters she needs to appeal to, are the same voters who think Jeremy Corbyn is the best leader Labour has ever had.

    The gulf in reality between regular voters who gave Jeremy Corbyn the worst Labour results ever, and party member who consider him the best ever, is one that Jess couldn't bridge.

    Doesn't mean that Jess is the wrong person to be leader, quite the opposite, once someone like Jess does become leader the Tories might lose an election.
    Owen just comes across to me as snarky.
  • rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 29,122
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,518
    This polling just confirms that Labour is packed with political onanists.

    More interested is pleasing themselves, they have forgotten the purpose of a political party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
  • I agree with that. She's the unknown quantity. She has a huge amount to learn, but it would be exceptionally difficult for a man to politically attack her. The whole hooker hoops and 'our jess' is an act, but so is most of what boris does is also.
    She was the high risk high reward candidate.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    speedy2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
    The trouble is it is a bit like some of what we have seen here, and it ties in with the Corbyn/Jess stuff. It is one thing to prefer Mayor Pete to Bernie or vice versa but as with Corbyn and Jess, without going OTT and tipping over into saying this guy is so far beyond the pale that erstwhile supporters should instead vote for Boris or Trump.
    The question of will Hillary endorse Trump against Sanders might be asked more frequently in the next few days since the Iowa Polls show momentum for Sanders:

  • Nothing very surprising here.

    You can appreciate why Jeremy Corbyn has a 71% favourable rating when you think about how he won three landslide election victories, was integral in enacting the minimum wage, negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, ran a government that pumped billions into the NHS, promoted gay rights, devolved power to Scotland & Wales etc.

    And I suppose it's also obvious why Tony Blair has a 62% negative rating with his dreadful record of losing elections, the blind eye he turned to antisemitism, and the fact he basically spent his entire career on the fringes, never actually enacting a single one of his ideas or doing one iota of good for the working people he claimed to represent.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,883
    I love this meme from some Labour supporters that "X candidate is feared by the Tories". The Tories won't fear any of them, that's why Labour is in the shit.

    I think Jess would have been one of the more difficult candidates for the Conservatives to tackle though, but she'd be hobbled by battles within her own party.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    edited January 21
    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    Attacking Jess for coming from ‘a comfortably well off middle class background’ whilst praising Diane Abbott without mentioning that she came from in all likelihood a more comfortably off middle class background is a bit much.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,883
    kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.

    Wow. And just as the primaries are getting underway. Regardless of how true this is, what is her game?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 224
    edited January 21

    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.
    yeah, not sure how you can argue against this.

    He's just another in the long line of left wing sub-journalist blowhards.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    I agree with that. She's the unknown quantity. She has a huge amount to learn, but it would be exceptionally difficult for a man to politically attack her. The whole hooker hoops and 'our jess' is an act, but so is most of what boris does is also.
    She was the high risk high reward candidate.
    Yes me too, brand Jess was perfectly positioned to get the votes of the well off middle class who like to think they’re edgy
  • This polling just confirms that Labour is packed with political onanists.

    More interested is pleasing themselves, they have forgotten the purpose of a political party.

    Some, including perhaps those who left the party in 2019, might argue the blue team tipped too far the other way. It's all about winning, even if that involves running against the last government you were a member of, both in policy and personnel terms. Where is the happy medium?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,883

    speedy2 said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think Starmer just won the leadership election.
    He might win outright on first preferences.
    Very hard to see anyone else now.
    I really don't see how Jess withdrawing has any impact whatsoever. She was never in the frame (other than in her own mind....).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 17,807
    speedy2 said:

    speedy2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
    The trouble is it is a bit like some of what we have seen here, and it ties in with the Corbyn/Jess stuff. It is one thing to prefer Mayor Pete to Bernie or vice versa but as with Corbyn and Jess, without going OTT and tipping over into saying this guy is so far beyond the pale that erstwhile supporters should instead vote for Boris or Trump.
    The question of will Hillary endorse Trump against Sanders might be asked more frequently in the next few days since the Iowa Polls show momentum for Sanders:

    And the answer - don't be silly.

    I note Biden seems to be closing in on Sanders in NH.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 7,861

    I love this meme from some Labour supporters that "X candidate is feared by the Tories". The Tories won't fear any of them, that's why Labour is in the shit.

    I think Jess would have been one of the more difficult candidates for the Conservatives to tackle though, but she'd be hobbled by battles within her own party.
    The Tories should fear almost 'anbody but Corbyn' (let's exclude RLB). The main reason Boris won was Corbyn.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,815

    I agree with that. She's the unknown quantity. She has a huge amount to learn, but it would be exceptionally difficult for a man to politically attack her. The whole hooker hoops and 'our jess' is an act, but so is most of what boris does is also.
    She was the high risk high reward candidate.
    'Hooker hoops' made me laugh more than it should have.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305
    edited January 21
    kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    Jesus. He's about as benign as the editor of Pravda or the party apparatchik whose signature sent dissidents to the gulag...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,883

    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/jess-phillips-the-latest-victim-of-centrist-hack-syndrome-cd81c602264e

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.
    Indeed. Although that doesn't extend to actually giving him a kicking.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305

    This polling just confirms that Labour is packed with political onanists.

    More interested is pleasing themselves, they have forgotten the purpose of a political party.

    Some, including perhaps those who left the party in 2019, might argue the blue team tipped too far the other way. It's all about winning, even if that involves running against the last government you were a member of, both in policy and personnel terms. Where is the happy medium?
    If there is no functioning Opposition then it's for the governing party to provide the opposition to itself. In this case they did so brilliantly.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,883
    edited January 21
    kinabalu said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.

    Wow. And just as the primaries are getting underway. Regardless of how true this is, what is her game?
    Presumably trying to prevent the Democrats performing Seppuku.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616

    Jesus. He's about as benign as the editor of Pravda or the party apparatchik whose signature sent dissidents to the gulag...

    A comment which demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that you have little knowledge of his output. I do.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    Nothing very surprising here.

    You can appreciate why Jeremy Corbyn has a 71% favourable rating when you think about how he won three landslide election victories, was integral in enacting the minimum wage, negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, ran a government that pumped billions into the NHS, promoted gay rights, devolved power to Scotland & Wales etc.

    And I suppose it's also obvious why Tony Blair has a 62% negative rating with his dreadful record of losing elections, the blind eye he turned to antisemitism, and the fact he basically spent his entire career on the fringes, never actually enacting a single one of his ideas or doing one iota of good for the working people he claimed to represent.

    Politics is like an ancient tragedy, how the character meets his end matters most.

    Like a Shakespearean tragic figure, Blair in the end was hated by everyone.

    Conservatives hate him because he was a social liberal and he beat them.
    Labour hates him because of his economic conservatism.
    Liberals hate him because of his belligerent foreign policy.

    And of course everyone hates him because his legacy was catastrophic, the country is still in worse shape today than in 1997.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 24,677
    edited January 21
    kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    Owen Jones v Dan Hannan (from before the EU referendum). They disagree with almost everything the other has to say, but they are both very polite and prepared to listen to each other’s opinions.
  • glwglw Posts: 5,800

    I love this meme from some Labour supporters that "X candidate is feared by the Tories". The Tories won't fear any of them, that's why Labour is in the shit.

    I think Jess would have been one of the more difficult candidates for the Conservatives to tackle though, but she'd be hobbled by battles within her own party.
    The optimal outcome for the Tories is probably Starmer saddled with a Corbynite deputy and shadow cabinet, which would maximise the in-fighting.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,211
    GMB

    Nandy and Rayner

    Now Nandy just needs 1 more affiliate. It can be a tiny tiny Socialist Society.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 28,598

    kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    Jesus. Jones is about as benign as the editor of Pravda or the party apparatchik whose signature sent dissidents to the gulag...
    I wonder. Stuff like this often attracts criticism because of its source but when all's said and done he has a point.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 346
    Breaking: GMB backing Nandy.



    A better option than Starmer IMHO.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Nigelb said:

    speedy2 said:

    speedy2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hillary Clinton on Bernie Sanders:

    He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
    ...
    It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women.

    And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sanders-nobody-likes-him-nobody-wants-to-work-with-him

    Is this similar to Blair putting the boot into (any) Labour candidates, or does Hilary still have clout?
    Hard to understand what she thinks this will achieve, except reassure wavering Sanders supporters that a more centrist candidate isn't for them. Apart from anything else she sounds incredibly childish... "nobody likes him"!?!?
    It's a translation of "I HATE HIM".

    Fanatical Hillary supporters were voting for Joe Biden anyway, so it won't have any impact apart from free publicity for Sanders.
    The trouble is it is a bit like some of what we have seen here, and it ties in with the Corbyn/Jess stuff. It is one thing to prefer Mayor Pete to Bernie or vice versa but as with Corbyn and Jess, without going OTT and tipping over into saying this guy is so far beyond the pale that erstwhile supporters should instead vote for Boris or Trump.
    The question of will Hillary endorse Trump against Sanders might be asked more frequently in the next few days since the Iowa Polls show momentum for Sanders:

    And the answer - don't be silly.

    I note Biden seems to be closing in on Sanders in NH.
    The media tends to ask silly questions for publicity, even if the answer might be obvious and boring.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    MarqueeMark is spot on – Jess was never a realistic contender.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 28,598

    Breaking: GMB backing Nandy.



    A better option than Starmer IMHO.
    And Then There Were Three, since we're making half-allusions to rubbish rock bands.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 232
    That 71% favourability rating for Corbyn is pretty irrelevant. If you share much of his politics and think he's a decent human being, but recognise that he was a disaster electorally, you'd give him a positive rating. Doesn't mean you don't think Labour should ever choose someone like him again.

    I guess it's inevitable that people will spin it as delusional Labour members who are bound to choose Long-Bailey, but anyone who genuinely believes that is, themselves, delusional.

    If 71% of labour members wanted him to continue as leader, that would be a story worth discussing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616

    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...

    What do you mean he "literally" had a go? He punched him or something?

    Look -

    53,000 tweets, umpteen articles across several outlets, countless TV and radio slots, two serious and well regarded books - and not too much to be ashamed about in all of that.

    He's an important voice for the Left in this country. He's articulate and effective. This is why he gets so much grief.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 21,744
    I think choosing a woman would put a spring in the step of Lab and they could position it as a new beginning. RLB evidently would not take them forward one iota with their main left-centrist ex-supporters; Lisa Nandy would do, but I do not think she has acquired the gravitas required to face Boris yet. Which leaves the only person I can see facing BoJo over the dispatch box and landing blows while enthusing the PLP. Step forward our Em.

    Of course this poll shows that she won't get past the membership but then such is the state of Lab right now.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305
    kinabalu said:

    Jesus. He's about as benign as the editor of Pravda or the party apparatchik whose signature sent dissidents to the gulag...

    A comment which demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that you have little knowledge of his output. I do.
    I've read an awful lot of the nonsense he's put out over the years, and have seen plenty of his interviews and panel appearances.

    There's nothing benign about him unless you agree with him. He's a dogmatic machine activist who would be utterly merciless to his opposition if it were Corbyn with a majority of 80 instead of Boris.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616

    yeah, not sure how you can argue against this.

    He's just another in the long line of left wing sub-journalist blowhards.

    You can argue against it by having a good knowledge of his output and at least the semblance of a critical faculty untainted by softhead bias.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 28,877
    edited January 21
    FPT


    Is HS2 the best solution for dealing with northern commuter rail issues, or is it a solution looking for a problem?

    Road overcrowding may not be easy, but I suspect £100bn could find quite some bang for buck if spent on roads.

    The problem is an almost religious dislike of roads and cars despite that being how most transport is actually done on spurious "environmental" grounds - and I call it spurious because we are not looking at an active service in the North until the mid 2030s and by the mid 2030s we'll likely all be driving electric vehicles anyway so the environmental concerns from cars will largely have gone by then. We should be planning our roads based on cars no longer being an environmental problem but we are doing the exact opposite.

    Taking the town and transport planners I know, they hate cars more than they hate Tories. And don't bet on that changing when they're all electric, that's more of an excuse. It's ideological.
    Absolutely that is the real issue. The car is one of the greatest inventions mankind has ever come up with, it is liberating, it is not fixed to a single track and it should be at the forefront of thinking not the back of it.

    The ideological hatred of the car needs to be tackled head on, there are no environmental arguments against it going forwards that is an excuse as you say.

    The countries most important infrastructure is not the rail network, it is the motorway network and it is pathetic that no proper traditional motorways are built anymore. The M6 Toll being a sorry excuse for a new motorway.

    Our motorway infrastructure was mostly built in the 60s and 70s and if we want to be upgrading our infrastructure that would not be a bad place to start. I believe more miles are travelled on motorways than on our entire rail network put together yet it ranks nowhere as a priority; instead of chucking a hundred billion pounds on just one single rail route I bet a lot more could be done with a hundred billion pounds building and improving new roads.
  • kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...
    Classic Owen.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 24,677
    glw said:

    I love this meme from some Labour supporters that "X candidate is feared by the Tories". The Tories won't fear any of them, that's why Labour is in the shit.

    I think Jess would have been one of the more difficult candidates for the Conservatives to tackle though, but she'd be hobbled by battles within her own party.
    The optimal outcome for the Tories is probably Starmer saddled with a Corbynite deputy and shadow cabinet, which would maximise the in-fighting.
    Doesn’t the leader now pick the ShadCab, after EdM changed the rules?

    Starmer is IMO certainly the most likely of the candidates to attract those who just voted blue back to the red team - he looks and acts like a PM-in-waiting, and is the only candidate who does.

    The Corbynites aren’t goi g away though, and the next leader (whoever wins) is going to have one hell of a job uniting the party behind them. If one of the young ladies wins, they’d be well advised to talk about a nine-year project targeting the 2029 election, while expecting to make insufficient gains in 2024.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305
    kinabalu said:

    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...

    What do you mean he "literally" had a go? He punched him or something?

    Look -

    53,000 tweets, umpteen articles across several outlets, countless TV and radio slots, two serious and well regarded books - and not too much to be ashamed about in all of that.

    He's an important voice for the Left in this country. He's articulate and effective. This is why he gets so much grief.
    He's a shameless propagandist. His first book completely missed the point of what its eponym means to the working class. He's been effective in keeping Labour out of power for all the time that he's been campaigning for them.

    He also came out with this hilarious bilge, so at least he once made me laugh inadvertently:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/04/russell-brand-endorsed-labour-tories-should-be-worried
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616
    isam said:

    Attacking Jess for coming from ‘a comfortably well off middle class background’ whilst praising Diane Abbott without mentioning that she came from in all likelihood a more comfortably off middle class background is a bit much.

    He didn't attack her for coming from a comfortable background. He attacked her for attacking Abbott.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 28,877
    kinabalu said:

    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...

    What do you mean he "literally" had a go? He punched him or something?

    Look -

    53,000 tweets, umpteen articles across several outlets, countless TV and radio slots, two serious and well regarded books - and not too much to be ashamed about in all of that.

    He's an important voice for the Left in this country. He's articulate and effective. This is why he gets so much grief.
    If sheer volume of the sound of his own voice is what it takes to be effective then yes absolutely he is an incredibly effective self publicist.

    If convincing rather than putting off the rest of the country is what it takes to be considered effective then I would posit he is not that effective.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,139
    edited January 21
    TOPPING said:

    I think choosing a woman would put a spring in the step of Lab and they could position it as a new beginning. RLB evidently would not take them forward one iota with their main left-centrist ex-supporters; Lisa Nandy would do, but I do not think she has acquired the gravitas required to face Boris yet. Which leaves the only person I can see facing BoJo over the dispatch box and landing blows while enthusing the PLP. Step forward our Em.

    Of course this poll shows that she won't get past the membership but then such is the state of Lab right now.

    I do think she would be the most effective against the current PM.

    I feel she is quicker to think than Sir KS and knows how to land blows both above and below the belt. She has a sense of humour, gravitas (I think more so than Sir KS) and can do empathy. Usually she is good on the media and despite the obvious dig at her position as Her Ladyship people can relate to her.

    She would be a good leader and has the potential to be a very good politican.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 28,877
    Owen Jones is "effective" in the same way as Labour 2019 "won the argument"
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,440
    Bad news for RLB - the one way RLB might have won was by the route EdM won - ie by getting unions not just to nominate but putting glossy leaflets telling members how to vote in with their ballot papers. That was how EDM won even when DavidM won more votes of members.

    But now we have big unions as follows:

    UNISON (1.4m members) - Starmer
    UNITE (1.3m members) - TBA
    GMB (600k members) - Nandy
    USDAW (400k members) - Starmer
    CWU (200k members) - TBA

    So even if RLB gets UNITE and CWU she isn't going to have an advantage over Starmer in this area.

    Which in turn means that as long as Starmer wins by reasonable amount amongst members it's unlikely votes of union members will overturn it.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,139
    MikeL said:

    Bad news for RLB - the one way RLB might have won was by the route EdM won - ie by getting unions not just to nominate but putting glossy leaflets telling members how to vote in with their ballot papers. That was how EDM won even when DavidM won more votes of members.

    But now we have big unions as follows:

    UNISON (1.4m members) - Starmer
    UNITE (1.3m members) - TBA
    GMB (600k members) - Nandy
    USDAW (400k members) - Starmer
    CWU (200k members) - TBA

    So even if RLB gets UNITE and CWU she isn't going to have an advantage over Starmer in this area.

    Which in turn means that as long as Starmer wins by reasonable amount amongst members it's unlikely votes of union members will overturn it.

    But good news for the rest of us?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 29,122


    Major union in breach of copyright case?
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    kinabalu said:

    Owen Jones has built a lucrative career by being gratuitously mean-spirited to others, and then crying foul when they are gratuitously mean-spirited right back at him.

    This is true of some of his "fans" but not of him. I have followed and read Jones for years and he is on the whole benign in spirit. His attacks on people and things are almost always informed by his sincerely held political views and are usually well supported by evidence and/or logic. He is the subject of far more crap than he dishes out. Far more.
    Jesus. Jones is about as benign as the editor of Pravda or the party apparatchik whose signature sent dissidents to the gulag...
    I wonder. Stuff like this often attracts criticism because of its source but when all's said and done he has a point.
    True
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Attacking Jess for coming from ‘a comfortably well off middle class background’ whilst praising Diane Abbott without mentioning that she came from in all likelihood a more comfortably off middle class background is a bit much.

    He didn't attack her for coming from a comfortable background. He attacked her for attacking Abbott.
    Mentioning she came from a comfortable background was not intended to be a positive, he did so in order to disparage her while comparing her to someone posher
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305

    Owen Jones is "effective" in the same way as Labour 2019 "won the argument"

    Remember his hilarious 'Unseat' campaign with Momentum, lauched in August 2017?

    The group apparently sought 'to create a series of Portillo moments' (!) Well, Owen, you succeeded pretty spectacularly with that one, just not in the way you intended! :lol:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    MikeL said:

    Bad news for RLB - the one way RLB might have won was by the route EdM won - ie by getting unions not just to nominate but putting glossy leaflets telling members how to vote in with their ballot papers. That was how EDM won even when DavidM won more votes of members.

    But now we have big unions as follows:

    UNISON (1.4m members) - Starmer
    UNITE (1.3m members) - TBA
    GMB (600k members) - Nandy
    USDAW (400k members) - Starmer
    CWU (200k members) - TBA

    So even if RLB gets UNITE and CWU she isn't going to have an advantage over Starmer in this area.

    Which in turn means that as long as Starmer wins by reasonable amount amongst members it's unlikely votes of union members will overturn it.

    Good roundup. Sir Keir has union backing to the tune of 1.8m trade unionists going by your figures, which exceeds the total possible for Becky, unless she mops up every single undeclared affiliated union (highly unlikely she will do that).
  • kinabalu said:

    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...

    What do you mean he "literally" had a go? He punched him or something?

    Look -

    53,000 tweets, umpteen articles across several outlets, countless TV and radio slots, two serious and well regarded books - and not too much to be ashamed about in all of that.

    He's an important voice for the Left in this country. He's articulate and effective. This is why he gets so much grief.
    He's not an idiot - he keeps it the right side of the line, but is pretty mean-spirited just the same. Yesterday's example being his reaction to the idea of Tom Watson getting a peerage... "yuck".

    His books are well written but aren't particularly well regarded. They are what they are - populist polemics, preaching to the choir (as are a lot of books by journos on the right). I don't begrudge people with a good turn of phrase making a few bob, but let's not make him out to be some sort of intellectual titan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 24,677

    FPT


    Is HS2 the best solution for dealing with northern commuter rail issues, or is it a solution looking for a problem?

    Road overcrowding may not be easy, but I suspect £100bn could find quite some bang for buck if spent on roads.

    The problem is an almost religious dislike of roads and cars despite that being how most transport is actually done on spurious "environmental" grounds - and I call it spurious because we are not looking at an active service in the North until the mid 2030s and by the mid 2030s we'll likely all be driving electric vehicles anyway so the environmental concerns from cars will largely have gone by then. We should be planning our roads based on cars no longer being an environmental problem but we are doing the exact opposite.

    Taking the town and transport planners I know, they hate cars more than they hate Tories. And don't bet on that changing when they're all electric, that's more of an excuse. It's ideological.
    Absolutely that is the real issue. The car is one of the greatest inventions mankind has ever come up with, it is liberating, it is not fixed to a single track and it should be at the forefront of thinking not the back of it.

    The ideological hatred of the car needs to be tackled head on, there are no environmental arguments against it going forwards that is an excuse as you say.

    The countries most important infrastructure is not the rail network, it is the motorway network and it is pathetic that no proper traditional motorways are built anymore. The M6 Toll being a sorry excuse for a new motorway.

    Our motorway infrastructure was mostly built in the 60s and 70s and if we want to be upgrading our infrastructure that would not be a bad place to start. I believe more miles are travelled on motorways than on our entire rail network put together yet it ranks nowhere as a priority; instead of chucking a hundred billion pounds on just one single rail route I bet a lot more could be done with a hundred billion pounds building and improving new roads.
    Agreed 100%, until the last bit.

    We need HS2 AND road improvements. - and for freight they’re competing, so capacity for more rail freight means fewer lorries on the motorways.

    I sometimes wonder what it would cost to nationalise the M6 Toll, but if it’s anything like the rest of the Brownian PFI projects it will be pretty much impossible.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040



    Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Very unusual frock Lisa has chosen for the announcement, certainly.

  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 232
    kinabalu said:

    yeah, not sure how you can argue against this.

    He's just another in the long line of left wing sub-journalist blowhards.

    You can argue against it by having a good knowledge of his output and at least the semblance of a critical faculty untainted by softhead bias.
    There are things I would criticise Owen Jones for (self-righteousness; assuming bad faith in opponents), but they are minor flaws in a political sphere inhabited by Johnson and Cummings. The hatred he's getting on here is irrational.


  • Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Christ.


  • Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Parody exception would almost certainly apply. It evokes an existing work while being noticeably different from it; is intended to be humorous; and it represents fair dealing in that the amount of material is pretty minor and unlikely to negatively impact on the market for the original.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    edited January 21
    The Aga Makers Union has declared for Sir Keir.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305
    kicorse said:

    kinabalu said:

    yeah, not sure how you can argue against this.

    He's just another in the long line of left wing sub-journalist blowhards.

    You can argue against it by having a good knowledge of his output and at least the semblance of a critical faculty untainted by softhead bias.
    There are things I would criticise Owen Jones for (self-righteousness; assuming bad faith in opponents), but they are minor flaws in a political sphere inhabited by Johnson and Cummings. The hatred he's getting on here is irrational.
    Irrational? Labour's propagandist-in-chief thought he was going to overturn our entire economy and society and remake it in the image of the far left before the electorate gave their opinion on the subject. Ignominious silence is the least he could offer the country as recompense.

    It's going to be maaany decades before I feel like being remotely generous to him.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 305



    Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Parody exception would almost certainly apply. It evokes an existing work while being noticeably different from it; is intended to be humorous; and it represents fair dealing in that the amount of material is pretty minor and unlikely to negatively impact on the market for the original.
    Vote Yara Greyjoy!
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,883
    kinabalu said:

    He literally had a go at a Labour MP for, apparently, accidentally unfollowing him on twitter...

    What do you mean he "literally" had a go? He punched him or something?

    Look -

    53,000 tweets, umpteen articles across several outlets, countless TV and radio slots, two serious and well regarded books - and not too much to be ashamed about in all of that.

    He's an important voice for the Left in this country. He's articulate and effective. This is why he gets so much grief.
    Fascinating.

    Where have such influential thought leaders brought your party?
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 232

    kicorse said:

    kinabalu said:

    yeah, not sure how you can argue against this.

    He's just another in the long line of left wing sub-journalist blowhards.

    You can argue against it by having a good knowledge of his output and at least the semblance of a critical faculty untainted by softhead bias.
    There are things I would criticise Owen Jones for (self-righteousness; assuming bad faith in opponents), but they are minor flaws in a political sphere inhabited by Johnson and Cummings. The hatred he's getting on here is irrational.
    Irrational? Labour's propagandist-in-chief thought he was going to overturn our entire economy and society and remake it in the image of the far left before the electorate gave their opinion on the subject. Ignominious silence is the least he could offer the country as recompense.

    It's going to be maaany decades before I feel like being remotely generous to him.
    Considering that Owen Jones is probably on the receiving end of many irrational comments like that every day, perhaps my criticism of him was unfair!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 7,616
    edited January 21
    rkrkrk said:

    This from Owen Jones is pretty cutting. Feels a little gratuitously mean-spirited but I think the central point holds.

    "Centrist Hack Syndrome" :smile:

    BTW, this YouGov "analysis" is pisspoor. They clearly want to say that Labour members are astonishingly ignorant of the great Attlee and as to be expected of such morons love the ghastly Corbyn and so they just go ahead and say this even though the data shows nothing of the sort.

    The DKs for Attlee are about the same as for Callaghan, Wilson, less than for Gaitskell, MacDonald, and not much greater than for Foot and Smith. And the DK does not mean "never heard of" - it means "do not know enough to give a rating". That is quite different. Attlee was 75 years ago.

    Ed Miliband has just a 1 pt less favourable rating than Corbyn and a better net rating. Smith, Attlee and Wilson all have better nets than Corbyn. The one Corbyn really beats by miles is - quelle surprise - the Great Satan Tony Blair.

    And yet -

    "Jeremy Corbyn is the most popular leader of the past century among Labour members (partly because a quarter don’t seem to know who Clement Attlee is)."

    Pathetic.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    The Aga Makers Union has declared for Sir Keir.

    His old man would sack them all if they didn’t
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,883



    Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Very unusual frock Lisa has chosen for the announcement, certainly.

    Dragon Skin is so this year.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,883

    Breaking: GMB backing Nandy.



    A better option than Starmer IMHO.
    Is that enough to get Nandy onto the ballot paper?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,139
    edited January 21
    The use of photoshop (I assume) to attach heads to bodies is almost going to the objectification of women in the GMB posters. I could see this not getting universal acclaim in many instances (including this one).

    I'll have to be careful or they will bring out the woke in me!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,055
    edited January 21
    Personal preference and all that, but surely even objectively it makes no sense to rate Corbyn as the best. It's just tribalism gone mad - results do matter, as do not overcoming obstacles.



    Major union in breach of copyright case?
    Nah. I do like this approach - sure it's a serious time for the party, but have some fun about things. I will say Nandy generally looks a very friendly person, whether that is accurate or not.
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