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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With 49 CLPs now having decided just under two thirds are goin

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited January 24 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With 49 CLPs now having decided just under two thirds are going to Starmer

After what has been the biggest night so far of CLP meetings the overall picture is looking broadly the same and the big outstanding question is whether the Shadow Foreign Secretary, Emily Thornberry will make the cut.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 381
    Be funny if Starmer is favourite throughout then does a D Miliband and loses at the last minute.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 28,729
    Getting hard to see a path to the starting line for Thornberry. A pity for the Labour party and probably a bit of a relief to Boris.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 25,389
    houndtang said:

    Be funny if Starmer is favourite throughout then does a D Miliband and loses at the last minute.

    Depends on who beats him. If it’s Nandy, agreed. If it’s the egregious Wrong Daily...

    The real action right now is for Deputy Leader, where it’s becoming increasingly hard to see anyone other than Rayner making the ballot without some kind of stitch up.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 52,498
    Good morning, everyone.

    Interesting stat.

    Mr. L, I'm not sure Thornberry would be the asset some think. If I were trying to win back disaffected Northerners then she wouldn't be my pick.

    Starmer stands a better chance, in that regard.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 381
    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629
    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,984

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 25,389
    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 21,744
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 25,389
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment.
    True, though.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    edited January 24
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    Peter Hitchens had a row with her on QT some time back, and wrote an interesting follow up to it on his blog.

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2012/06/the-phoney-outrage-of-emily-thornberry-slime-factories-on-overtime.html

    He has been quite complimentary to her in later articles

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2016/09/why-im-sort-of-slightly-sympathetic-towards-emily-thornberry.html
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,984
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
  • isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    Peter Hitchens had a row with her on QT some time back, and wrote an interesting follow up to it on his blog.

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2012/06/the-phoney-outrage-of-emily-thornberry-slime-factories-on-overtime.html

    He has been quite complimentary to her in later articles

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2016/09/why-im-sort-of-slightly-sympathetic-towards-emily-thornberry.html
    Her backstory is almost entirely fiction. The “my brother is a builder” was such a fake story that she managed to get away with. Impressive really.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    edited January 24

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    We have a very lavish coffee-table book in red velvet on the Bulgarian monarchy, presented to my wife by King Boris's son, ex-King Simeon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 25,389
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    We have a very lavish coffe-table book in red velvet on the Bulgarian monarchy, presented to my wife by King Boris's son, ex-King Simeon.
    How bougie
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    Like me when I say with a straight face that I grew up on the mean streets of inner-city Birmingham.

    I grew up in Solihull.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613
    I don’t know if this was commented on yesterday, but it looks like EU Parliament ratification will be a formality.

    Main EU Parliament plenary vote on Wednesday, and then the European Council ratify on Thursday.

    The A50 process is then complete and we leave fully and legally at 11pm next Friday.

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200123IPR70904/brexit-the-withdrawal-agreement-passes-the-first-european-parliament-test
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 28,729

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Fascinating. I'd not heard that before.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 17,358

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    Wasn't it King Boris' son who became Prime Minister of Bulgaria after the Communist regime fell? Is he still about in Bulgarian politics?
    Strange country in some ways; went there in 1984 as part of a 'sort of' official group. The first week at each reception, and they were daily, we were served 'our delicious fruits'; strawberries. The second week it was cherries.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 28,729
    Normally at the Wanderers you would have been confident of a result one way or another with bowlers on top but the consensus seems to be no play today and not great for tomorrow. A draw has got to be an improving possibility.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    edited January 24
    DavidL said:

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Fascinating. I'd not heard that before.
    There have been several attempts to film it. Spielberg tried, but was thwarted at the time by the non-support of King Boris's widow, who lived to a very ripe old age.

    As a story, it does rather leave Schindler's List in the shade.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 13,470
    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880

    I don’t know if this was commented on yesterday, but it looks like EU Parliament ratification will be a formality.

    Main EU Parliament plenary vote on Wednesday, and then the European Council ratify on Thursday.

    The A50 process is then complete and we leave fully and legally at 11pm next Friday.

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200123IPR70904/brexit-the-withdrawal-agreement-passes-the-first-european-parliament-test

    Surely there weren't any Remainers clinging to the dream they might block Brexit?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 17,807

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It was rank bad manners.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 943
    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    I) is the most difficult, and nigh on impossible in the short term. Even if its claimed that Labour are united, voters will not believe it unless Momentum is destroyed as a political force.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629
    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    We have a very lavish coffe-table book in red velvet on the Bulgarian monarchy, presented to my wife by King Boris's son, ex-King Simeon.
    How bougie
    Doesn't that depend on whether we actually keep it on the coffee table?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    I) is the most difficult, and nigh on impossible in the short term. Even if its claimed that Labour are united, voters will not believe it unless Momentum is destroyed as a political force.
    Most voters don't know what ‘Momentum’ is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 25,389

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    I) is the most difficult, and nigh on impossible in the short term. Even if its claimed that Labour are united, voters will not believe it unless Momentum is destroyed as a political force.
    Most voters don't know what ‘Momentum’ is.
    It’s a concept in physics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 28,729
    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    That was my thought. And it is going to be hard. Cameron was very good at it. So was Blair over a shorter period but trying to get a positive message over when you spend your entire life criticising someone else's ideas is not easy. Most leaders of the Opposition have struggled. I think she is sufficiently robust. Not sure about RLB or Nandy although the latter might grow into it. SKS bores me already.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    edited January 24
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    What is it? She says they lived on a council estate and were so poor when her father left that her pet cats had to be put down.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 943

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    I) is the most difficult, and nigh on impossible in the short term. Even if its claimed that Labour are united, voters will not believe it unless Momentum is destroyed as a political force.
    Most voters don't know what ‘Momentum’ is.
    Ok lets not argue about semantics. The hard left needs eradicating as Kinnock did, expel the lot of them! The Labour party will not win whilst the hard left holds influence within its ranks.
  • Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    I) is the most difficult, and nigh on impossible in the short term. Even if its claimed that Labour are united, voters will not believe it unless Momentum is destroyed as a political force.
    Most voters don't know what ‘Momentum’ is.
    But they do know the broad theme that “labour isn’t the party it used to be.”
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    We have a very lavish coffee-table book in red velvet on the Bulgarian monarchy, presented to my wife by King Boris's son, ex-King Simeon.
    They (and I) would love to see that!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 52,498
    Thanks for the interesting snippet about the King Boris. Hadn't heard that before.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 21,744
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It was rank bad manners.
    There is a kernel of truth in it as she was treated like an officer while involved in courts martial and I can see her understandable confusion.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 943

    Thanks for the interesting snippet about the King Boris. Hadn't heard that before.

    I went and looked it up. the site I looked at said that reason for his death was uncertain, it might have been a heart attack or poison..
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 21,744
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    What is it? She says they lived on a council estate and were so poor when her father left that her pet cats had to be put down.

    Yes. Hysterically funny, right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    The diagram above is a perfect representation of Thornberry's problem: she has no support north of the Severn-Thames line. She is seen as the candidate of the Metropolitan South. (For which Keith Stormer is very grateful...)
  • It seems like only 2017 that CCHQ was blaming their loss of majority on Momentum's support for Labour.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,907
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    What is it? She says they lived on a council estate and were so poor when her father left that her pet cats had to be put down.

    Her dad was a senior academic at the LSE who taught me there in the 1960s
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,907

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
    Boris is not Tony Blair
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Bulgarians are very proud of that, and there is still a substantive monarchist minority in Bulgaria, which includes my parents-in-law.
    Wasn't it King Boris' son who became Prime Minister of Bulgaria after the Communist regime fell? Is he still about in Bulgarian politics?
    Strange country in some ways; went there in 1984 as part of a 'sort of' official group. The first week at each reception, and they were daily, we were served 'our delicious fruits'; strawberries. The second week it was cherries.
    Yes, and no.

    King Simeon became PM for a few years in the noughties (and got Bulgaria into the EU) but fell from power at the next election, partly due to vested interests in Bulgaria which he was challenging. It’s a corrupt country, sadly, and that really holds it back.

    Lots of fruit there. They also grow a lot of roses. It was the Roman province of “Thrace” and used to be quite a wealthy one.

    Now, it’s more like a very affordable Spain. Although, you can’t get a good steak there you can get delicious salads, pork, lamb and wine for a pittance. Same with spa treatments and spa resorts. Younger generation speak fluent English and will be delighted to see (non lager lout) Brits, which means avoiding Sunny Beach and the Black Sea resorts. Instead, try Bansko for skiing or Plovdiv (excellent Roman ruins, including an intact original amphitheatre) or Sofia for a city break. Older generation will speak Russian, but little or no English, and be more circumspect about the West, although curious about the UK.

    Both are very moderately but consistently respectful of religious traditions through the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in a “CofE” type way.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880

    Thanks for the interesting snippet about the King Boris. Hadn't heard that before.

    I went and looked it up. the site I looked at said that reason for his death was uncertain, it might have been a heart attack or poison..
    He was not the first person to cross Hitler who died in the same way though. There is a gloriously sinister guy (even by Nazi standards) who lurks in the shadows, who was said to be Hitler's Poisoner.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 23,297

    FPT "Here you go: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution

    2% of Danish Jews were killed
    13% of Italian Jews were killed
    21% of Estonian
    22% of French
    34% of Romanain
    90% of Polish"

    The country with the fascinating story regarding the Holocaust is Bulgaria. It started the war with 50,000 Jews. Despite being an Axis country, it ended the war with 50,000 Jews. Entirely down to the efforts of King Boris, who played a cunning game of chess with Hitler. He was ordered to send them to the death camps, but delayed and delayed and then delayed some more - then he moved them all out into the countryside.

    He won in that he saved their lives. He lost in that he was poisoned - probably with snake venom - on the orders of Hitler.

    Your “entirely down to the efforts of Boris” appears highly questionable according to the history.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,984
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    What is it? She says they lived on a council estate and were so poor when her father left that her pet cats had to be put down.

    Her father had a successful career at the UN but apparently abandoned his wife and children into poverty. Which is what I heard, and as far as I can tell from a tiny bit of research true. But it appears Thornberry spent part of her childhood with her father in much more comfortable surroundings.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It was rank bad manners.
    There is a kernel of truth in it as she was treated like an officer while involved in courts martial and I can see her understandable confusion.
    We heard "kernel".

    She heard "Colonel".

    We can all start the day knowing we have had Colonel knowledge of Emily Thornberry.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613

    I don’t know if this was commented on yesterday, but it looks like EU Parliament ratification will be a formality.

    Main EU Parliament plenary vote on Wednesday, and then the European Council ratify on Thursday.

    The A50 process is then complete and we leave fully and legally at 11pm next Friday.

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200123IPR70904/brexit-the-withdrawal-agreement-passes-the-first-european-parliament-test

    Surely there weren't any Remainers clinging to the dream they might block Brexit?
    I think the line is ‘we always thought this would happen, and on the EU’s terms” and they’ve now moved on to putting on their football colours again ready to cheer the EU on from the sidelines during the next phase of the negotiations.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 943

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
    Boris is not Tony Blair
    fortunately he is not. He won't be taking us into illegal wars.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,909
    edited January 24

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
    Boris is not Tony Blair
    fortunately he is not. He won't be taking us into illegal wars.
    I bet Johnson won't be as reviled by his party in 20 years time as Blair is by his party now.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    What is it? She says they lived on a council estate and were so poor when her father left that her pet cats had to be put down.

    Yes. Hysterically funny, right?
    I dont think so, why do you say that?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,984
    edited January 24

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
    Depends whether voters care about Johnson's dishonesty and incompetence. I'm not sure enough of them will.

    Blair wasn't honest either, though.

    Should add Blair was much better at PMQs than Johnson is based on this week's showing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 67,819
    edited January 24
    Starmer leads in every region in terms of CLP nominations but without going over 50% in the Midlands and the North West. Nandy does best in London and the West Midlands and Thornberry's only nominations so far have come from the South East
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,055
    More details on Bercow i see. If he is not a bully how unfortunate for him that his public persona that many like about him - his pompous self importance, his withering put downs at the slightest provocation; his confidence to make his own decisions regardless of advice - make it seem quite believable he would be terrible to work for.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 67,819
    edited January 24

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour leader had four tasks.

    1. Stop splits and unite Labour
    2. Be an interesting and effective LoO maintaining interest for five long years
    3. Build a coalition to get Labour safely over 40% and start to regularly win elections
    4. Be a credible PM candidate when the time comes.

    Challenging, but doable. I reckon (2) is the hardest. Thornberry might be good at that.

    Keir will be ripping Boris a new one on the daily.
    And yet, no-one will notice.

    He will be Labour's William Hague. Roundly beating Blair at PMQs. With no electoral effect at all.
    He won't be Hague, he is far more presentable and telegenic, Tories should not get complacent about Starmer, he is the best of the Labour field and provided Labour reject Long Bailey it will be seen by the public as a shift more towards the centre.

    Boris can still beat Starmer but assuming no effort will be required is dangerously complacent, especially as the Tories will soon be over 10 years in power
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 25,921
    kle4 said:

    More details on Bercow i see. If he is not a bully how unfortunate for him that his public persona that many like about him - his pompous self importance, his withering put downs at the slightest provocation; his confidence to make his own decisions regardless of advice - make it seem quite believable he would be terrible to work for.

    Too many snowflakes about, pathetic creatures that need hand holding and constant attention and praise or they think they are being bullied.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,013
    Interesting morning thread, especially Casino's briefing on Bulgaria, all of which was new to me.

    On topic, we had our monthly CLP meeting last night (the nomination meeting is not till Feb 4) for an election post-mortem. Lots of new members taking part, and an amicable atmosphere. General agreement on the causes of defeat (Corbyn's reputation, Brexit, lack of clear Labour theme, lack of cheery optimism), a variety of views on what was needed, from more centrism (appeal to the insecure middle class) to more focused socialism (a couple of key themes, not a dozen). Nobody expressed a clear preference or aversion on leadership candidates. I suspect we'll end up with a Starmer or Nandy nomination, with RLB getting a third of the vote, but I'm guessing.

    Good analysis by Polly today - I absolutely recognise her description much of the electorate - the soaraway wealthy, the preoccupied middle, the non-voting very poor.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/boris-johnson-poverty-voters-pmqs-child-poverty-benefits
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 17,807
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It was rank bad manners.
    There is a kernel of truth in it as she was treated like an officer while involved in courts martial and I can see her understandable confusion.
    There seems to be general confusion about her claims. Perhaps if she’d better marshalled her arguments...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 4,329
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It was rank bad manners.
    There is a kernel of truth in it as she was treated like an officer while involved in courts martial and I can see her understandable confusion.
    Civvies aboard the Grey Funnel Line have their status assessed by the Captain to ascertain where their grot will be and where they will mess. We had quite a few of these on Ark Royal and the boss applied a ruthless apartheid policy based on whether they could play bridge or not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,055
    edited January 24
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    More details on Bercow i see. If he is not a bully how unfortunate for him that his public persona that many like about him - his pompous self importance, his withering put downs at the slightest provocation; his confidence to make his own decisions regardless of advice - make it seem quite believable he would be terrible to work for.

    Too many snowflakes about, pathetic creatures that need hand holding and constant attention and praise or they think they are being bullied.
    People can be too sensitive, and mere sternness or lack of positive reinforcement is not bullying. However that doesnt mean that horrible bullies do not exist in workplaces, nor that it is unacceptable at any age to act so, no matter the age or position of the victim. Someone who feels the need to act in such a manner is deeply pathetic, boosting their ego by treating others like crap.

    In short, certainly the accusation of being bullied is not proof it is so. But it happens and is never necessary. We all know stern or tough people who did not and so not bully. Same reasons teachers dont need to cane kids - they can control matters without it, theres no need for it.

    Edit: and I say that as someone critical of overuse of the term bullying especially in partisan reporting of media questioning of politicians. Eg tough interviewers bullying candidates
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 25,921
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    More details on Bercow i see. If he is not a bully how unfortunate for him that his public persona that many like about him - his pompous self importance, his withering put downs at the slightest provocation; his confidence to make his own decisions regardless of advice - make it seem quite believable he would be terrible to work for.

    Too many snowflakes about, pathetic creatures that need hand holding and constant attention and praise or they think they are being bullied.
    People can be too sensitive, and mere sternness or lack of positive reinforcement is not bullying. However that doesnt mean that horrible bullies do not exist in workplaces, nor that it is unacceptable at any age to act so, no matter the age or position of the victim. Someone who feels the need to act in such a manner is deeply pathetic, boosting their ego by treating others like crap.

    In short, certainly the accusation of being bullied is not proof it is so. But it happens and is never necessary. We all know stern ir tough people who did not bully. Same reasons teachers dont need to cane kids - they can control matters without it.
    Totally agree
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 67,819
    US Senators caught doing crossword puzzles and making paper airplanes in the Trump impeachment trial

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51231047
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment.
    True, though.
    Any evidence for this, or just a baseless smear?
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment.
    True, though.
    Any evidence for this, or just a baseless smear?
    Didn't you just make a comment accusing someone of being a bigot despite their consistency? It has disappeared...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment. She is fab. Go Em.
    Unfortunately, five minutes with Google suggests Thornberry is accentuating the negative as far as the poverty of her childhood is concerned. Not to say it's all untrue, though.
    I was thinking more of her bizarre claims that she was a Colonel in the British Army, which she invented to try and pretend she had a more distinguished military career than Julian Brazier.
    In general I would be supportive, but that was a major error.
    It’s a private matter!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 2,040
    edited January 24
    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment.
    True, though.
    Any evidence for this, or just a baseless smear?
    Didn't you just make a comment accusing someone of being a bigot despite their consistency? It has disappeared...
    I did, on the previous thread though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    edited January 24
    HYUFD said:
    17% swing to the Tories and 27% to the LibDems against Labour in London? Suggests they might just have bigger issues than the Hindus......
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 52,055
    Love this
    Mr_Bake said:

    Kim Il-sung is still the president of NK despite being dead for 25 years. With a "when will event x happen" there is often the opportunity that x will never happen, with that option missing from the selection.

  • eekeek Posts: 6,900
    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 31,880
    Off to do stuff.

    Enjoy your last full Friday in the EU.....
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,742



    Good analysis by Polly today - I absolutely recognise her description much of the electorate - the soaraway wealthy, the preoccupied middle, the non-voting very poor.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/boris-johnson-poverty-voters-pmqs-child-poverty-benefits

    Thanks for sharing, this was very interesting. I'm also wondering whether Labour banging on about homelessness and extreme poverty is a mistake (obviously we should do things about those issues, but is it wise to campaign so much on them when they don't affect many voters?).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 6,629
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
    Can’t Boris move those jobs to Leeds?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 12,499
    rkrkrk said:



    Good analysis by Polly today - I absolutely recognise her description much of the electorate - the soaraway wealthy, the preoccupied middle, the non-voting very poor.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/boris-johnson-poverty-voters-pmqs-child-poverty-benefits

    Thanks for sharing, this was very interesting. I'm also wondering whether Labour banging on about homelessness and extreme poverty is a mistake (obviously we should do things about those issues, but is it wise to campaign so much on them when they don't affect many voters?).
    Surely the problem is that for voters aged 60+, what passes as poverty today doesn't come close to what they saw/experienced as children.
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    houndtang said:

    Thornberry would be a dream for the Tories. The living embodiment of the liberal elite.

    Like Boris Johnson?
    Actually not like Johnson. Thornberry had quite an unpriveleged upbringing, I believe, and got to where she is through her own efforts.
    She’s almost as fluent a liar as he is though. That’s one reason why stories about the modesty of her background should be treated with considerable care.
    What a snide comment.
    True, though.
    Any evidence for this, or just a baseless smear?
    Didn't you just make a comment accusing someone of being a bigot despite their consistency? It has disappeared...
    I did, on the previous thread though.
    Phew, I'm glad you cleared that up!
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    HYUFD said:
    17% swing to the Tories and 27% to the LibDems against Labour in London? Suggests they might just have bigger issues than the Hindus......
    What do you expect now JC is stepping down?!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 52,498
    Mr. 86, that comment does remind me of the young Labour chap at an Ed Miliband era conference tweeting about his poverty from his iPad.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,984

    HYUFD said:
    17% swing to the Tories and 27% to the LibDems against Labour in London? Suggests they might just have bigger issues than the Hindus......
    The Britain Elects council elections previews are a great read. An understated treasure. It seems the previous Labour councillor in one of those wards defrauded a charity out of an inheritance owing to them. He resigned to be replaced by a candidate with a very dodgy Twitter feed who was suspended from the party but couldn't be removed from the ballot paper in time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,131
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:
    17% swing to the Tories and 27% to the LibDems against Labour in London? Suggests they might just have bigger issues than the Hindus......
    What do you expect now JC is stepping down?!
    Are Labour losing their remainers to the Lib Dems now they're a pro Brexit party ?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 4,329
    edited January 24

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
    Can’t Boris move those jobs to Leeds?
    9 out of 10 React Native developers, who expressed a preference, wanted to live in Armley.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 67,819
    edited January 24
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:
    17% swing to the Tories and 27% to the LibDems against Labour in London? Suggests they might just have bigger issues than the Hindus......
    What do you expect now JC is stepping down?!
    Are Labour losing their remainers to the Lib Dems now they're a pro Brexit party ?
    The LD vote was down in 2/3 of the wards up last night, plus even Layla Moran has said the relationship must move to alignment with the EU not reversing Brexit, no different to Starmer more local factors as FF43 says
  • isamisam Posts: 29,895

    The ideal cv for Labour leader seems to be

    Rent a flat above a shop,
    Cut your hair and get a job,
    Smoke some fags and play some pool,
    Pretend you never went to school.

    That song is a perfect description of the way people who move into an urban area marvel at and boast of the things that a lot of those who were born and bred there want to get away from
  • eekeek Posts: 6,900
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
    Can’t Boris move those jobs to Leeds?
    9 out of 10 React Native developers, who expressed a preference, wanted to live in Armley.
    Facebook looks at Silicon Valley wages and goes - hmm we save 50% in London and get the pick of European talent, they don't need to go elsewhere and save more.

    For them London is an ideal location, great links to the US and a place senior management like going to.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 17,807
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
    Can’t Boris move those jobs to Leeds?
    9 out of 10 React Native developers, who expressed a preference, wanted to live in Armley.
    HMP ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 52,498
    Mr. Eek, it's a few months ago but I think I remember reading that property prices in Silicon Valley are insane (to the extent that even most of London is significantly cheaper).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    More details on Bercow i see. If he is not a bully how unfortunate for him that his public persona that many like about him - his pompous self importance, his withering put downs at the slightest provocation; his confidence to make his own decisions regardless of advice - make it seem quite believable he would be terrible to work for.

    Too many snowflakes about, pathetic creatures that need hand holding and constant attention and praise or they think they are being bullied.
    People can be too sensitive, and mere sternness or lack of positive reinforcement is not bullying. However that doesnt mean that horrible bullies do not exist in workplaces, nor that it is unacceptable at any age to act so, no matter the age or position of the victim. Someone who feels the need to act in such a manner is deeply pathetic, boosting their ego by treating others like crap.

    In short, certainly the accusation of being bullied is not proof it is so. But it happens and is never necessary. We all know stern or tough people who did not and so not bully. Same reasons teachers dont need to cane kids - they can control matters without it, theres no need for it.

    Edit: and I say that as someone critical of overuse of the term bullying especially in partisan reporting of media questioning of politicians. Eg tough interviewers bullying candidates
    It’s not inconsistent with Bercow’s pompous and belittling behaviour in the chamber, which we can all see on live TV, so it doesn’t surprise me to learn he’s alleged to be an arse off camera as well.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 33,613
    tlg86 said:

    rkrkrk said:



    Good analysis by Polly today - I absolutely recognise her description much of the electorate - the soaraway wealthy, the preoccupied middle, the non-voting very poor.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/boris-johnson-poverty-voters-pmqs-child-poverty-benefits

    Thanks for sharing, this was very interesting. I'm also wondering whether Labour banging on about homelessness and extreme poverty is a mistake (obviously we should do things about those issues, but is it wise to campaign so much on them when they don't affect many voters?).
    Surely the problem is that for voters aged 60+, what passes as poverty today doesn't come close to what they saw/experienced as children.
    Our tolerances of what constitutes poverty have changed too. Hunger and no heating (and limited lighting) were far more common in the 1970s than today, but we now view any of that as wholly unacceptable.

    There are also social/market trends creating a level of poverty, or at least making it much harder. I find it hard to keep up (in my 30s) with the almost compulsory technological innovations banks and utility providers make on their services and billing, which seem to change every 18 months and get ever more digital and smartphone “appy” with the passwords ever more fiendishly complicated.

    God knows how the elderly cope.
  • eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yet with the tax being introduced in April, Facebook announced this week a 1,000 new highly paid jobs in London.
    Can’t Boris move those jobs to Leeds?
    9 out of 10 React Native developers, who expressed a preference, wanted to live in Armley.
    Facebook looks at Silicon Valley wages and goes - hmm we save 50% in London and get the pick of European talent, they don't need to go elsewhere and save more.

    For them London is an ideal location, great links to the US and a place senior management like going to.
    London does give the pick of European talent but that is partly due to FoM with the EU.
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