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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    GIN1138 said:

    Hope Gina and Jolyon aren't knocking up a judge in Edinburgh to get one final injunction to keep us in! :D

    Unfortunate choice of words.
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    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    They are just being realistic and implementing what has been agreed in the PD. Why are you criticising the Govt for doing what hey have said they will do?
    Which bit of "UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU" did you not understand?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    From the BBC. MEP’s have voted for universal charging cables for mobiles. Same charger for Samsung, Apple etc.
    At first sight that’s a Good Idea.
    Won’t happen in UK of course!

    So no company can innovate with a newer, better cable?

    Hopefully everyone moves on to wireless charging but banning innovation doesn't seem smart. Almost all companies have already moved to standard ones anyway.
    They're not actually insisting on a common cable, the story is wrong. They are insisting on common charging standards. That means the cable to charger interface has to be standard.
    Do you mean they all have to be eg USB Type C? So no Lightning etc?

    Or the connection to the charger block so they all need to be USB? Aren't they all already USB?
    The idea is that we'll have chargers that conform to a common standard, but that the phone interface is up to manufacturers.

    The result of this is that iPhones will get a lightning-to-usb c cable, and charging bricks will all have USB c output and conform USB-PD standards.

    This does not mean you can't innovate. You can have your own snazzy high power interface. But if the device at the other end doesn't support it, you need to fall back to USB-PD.

    The idea, rightly or wrongly, is to reduce e-waste by being able to reduce the number of chargers in existence.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Shame on @TheScreamingEagles for never using this in a thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

    Hand in your pop culture card!

    Maybe at 5 minutes to it'll be posted :o
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,134
    At this moment we really need Jeremy, the man who always brings people together.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    When is Jo Maugham QC going to lay down his Hadouken! move?

    He’s cutting it pretty fine..
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    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    Lordy. We've got at least another eleven months of Boris rippling his pects in everyone's faces, just to keep his boys and girls swooning. Will this never end?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    True, but what has the EU learnt?
    That they have the upper hand in the negotiations.
    Well, yeah, they have an advantage - sure.

    But, that wasn’t my question..

    What has the EU learnt from Brexit?
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,134

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    True, but what has the EU learnt?
    That they have the upper hand in the negotiations.
    Obviously since high-handedness is their forte.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Five minutes left.

    You can still boil an egg whilst in the EU.

    I wonder what they'll do with the last £173,611?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    Bedtime
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    Never quite sure whether Johnson really believes his own nonsense or whether it's just a (successful) ploy to keep his supporters in happy ignorance while he does his thing.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I am refreshing the European Union page on Wikipedia. Sad. :D
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    Last minute guys...
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    Sigh
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    They are just being realistic and implementing what has been agreed in the PD. Why are you criticising the Govt for doing what hey have said they will do?
    Which bit of "UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU" did you not understand?
    They’re trying to make a WTO-exit credible to increase leverage in the primary trade talks. To be credible, we have to be prepared and be seen to be prepared and to go through with it if our bluff is called.

    I think that’s a fair, if high risk, strategy.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Last minute guys...

    I need to dig up that it's happening gif.... :D
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,731
    edited January 2020
    Referee's looking at his watch. He's going to blow it any second.
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    Well, yeah, they have an advantage - sure.

    But, that wasn’t my question..

    What has the EU learnt from Brexit?

    Very little, if anything.

    Whether it matters now is moot TBH. Obviously the EU is greatly diminished by Brexit, but there's no point them crying over milk they spilt five years ago.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    They are just being realistic and implementing what has been agreed in the PD. Why are you criticising the Govt for doing what hey have said they will do?
    Which bit of "UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU" did you not understand?
    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    BONG.

    Cheerieu.....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Brexit happened. Continent cut off.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,134
    bong!
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    isamisam Posts: 40,894
    I feel a bit claustrophobic on this little island
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    It's 1956!
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
    The EU are offering no tariffs and quotas but will impose border controls.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691
    So.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    We’re out.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Fireworks over Yorkshire!
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    In the style of Sir Jimmy Goldsmith:

    OUT! OUT! OUT! OUT!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Only 11 bongs? Rationing started pretty quickly.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    Where's Marty McFly?
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    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    Has the sky fallen on our heads yet?
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Now what?
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    The hangover begins.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    Next.
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    Blimey! A few fireworks here in suburban Ilford!
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    dodrade said:

    Has the sky fallen on our heads yet?

    No, thousands of pounds are flooding into the NHS.
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    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
    If he is going to impose customs posts, perhaps you can enlighten us on where they will be on goods travelling from the Republic of Ireland to Great Britain via Northern Ireland. Or do I have to bring up hemispatial neglect again?
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited January 2020
    The EU maps on Wikipedia have been changed.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Fireworks in deepest remania central Cardiff! Genuinely surprised. Almost subversive round here.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    They are just being realistic and implementing what has been agreed in the PD. Why are you criticising the Govt for doing what hey have said they will do?
    Which bit of "UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU" did you not understand?
    They’re trying to make a WTO-exit credible to increase leverage in the primary trade talks. To be credible, we have to be prepared and be seen to be prepared and to go through with it if our bluff is called.

    I think that’s a fair, if high risk, strategy.
    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    Rejoin! Rejoin! Rejoin!
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    Wikipedia has already been updated
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Jonathan said:

    dodrade said:

    Has the sky fallen on our heads yet?

    No, thousands of pounds are flooding into the NHS.
    Unfortunately it is going to require many billions to pay for higher drug prices
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Now what?

    We sit back and watch the Leavers cry as their Pyrrhic victory turns to ashes at the hands of Boris's ineptitude.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,443
    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    nico67 said:

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    They are just being realistic and implementing what has been agreed in the PD. Why are you criticising the Govt for doing what hey have said they will do?
    Which bit of "UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU" did you not understand?
    They’re trying to make a WTO-exit credible to increase leverage in the primary trade talks. To be credible, we have to be prepared and be seen to be prepared and to go through with it if our bluff is called.

    I think that’s a fair, if high risk, strategy.
    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

    It’s perfectly credible.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Thanks Jezza. We couldn't have done it without you. :D
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    dodrade said:

    Has the sky fallen on our heads yet?

    No, thousands of pounds are flooding into the NHS.
    Unfortunately it is going to require many billions to pay for higher drug prices
    Farage’s Britain begins
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Now what?

    We sit back and watch the Leavers cry as their Pyrrhic victory turns to ashes at the hands of Boris's ineptitude.
    PB is addictive, isn't it? :D
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    isamisam Posts: 40,894
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    It is the only reason it happened.
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    kinabalu said:

    BEST president IMO is LBJ. Achieved a lot in a short time and most of it good.

    Does that include the Vietnam war ?
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,134
    kinabalu said:

    Rejoin! Rejoin! Rejoin!

    It's a wake for the woke.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    viewcode said:

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
    If he is going to impose customs posts, perhaps you can enlighten us on where they will be on goods travelling from the Republic of Ireland to Great Britain via Northern Ireland. Or do I have to bring up hemispatial neglect again?
    On that particular bit, in the Irish Sea, as required, or digitally. And yes, I know he says he won’t etc blah blah blah, so don’t bother pointing that out to me.

    Try and make a new interesting point rather than an old and boring one, gone over a million times.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    Enlargement was a noble idea. It should have been phased. Hubris.
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    nico67 said:

    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

    It's delusional claptrap, certainly, but I have a horrible feeling that they do believe it.

    2020 is just going to be a repeat of the Withdrawal Agreement negotiation: stupid bluster from the Brexiteers, followed by the inevitable climbdown when they bump up against their own brain-dead, self-imposed deadline.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Greetings fellow children of Nigel.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201


    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
    I have not mentioned no deal at all, why bring it in unless your argument is so weak that it is not worth stating. My point is that as soon as the PD was released by the EU/UK it was 100% clear that there would be customs checks and SPS checks at the border. Only a complete idiot thinks this is being done now for leverage, it was all agreed a long time ago and is the default outcome.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Is that all there is to a Brexit?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRZZC-DH7M
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618
    welshowl said:

    Fireworks in deepest remania central Cardiff! Genuinely surprised. Almost subversive round here.

    The noise from fireworks carries far.
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    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
    We hum the same old lines to a different crowd
    And everybody wants to cheer it
    We run on endless time to reach a higher cloud
    But we never ever seem to get near it
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    I felt a huge sigh of relief at 11pm to be honest.

    I never wanted to be in that organisation, and didn’t agree with either its vision or objectives.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    nico67 said:

    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

    It's delusional claptrap, certainly, but I have a horrible feeling that they do believe it.

    2020 is just going to be a repeat of the Withdrawal Agreement negotiation: stupid bluster from the Brexiteers, followed by the inevitable climbdown when they bump up against their own brain-dead, self-imposed deadline.
    We hold ALL the cards.
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    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,697

    Blimey! A few fireworks here in suburban Ilford!

    Yeah. I can hear them as well in Bootle.
    EU not as popular as we thought in Merseyside.....
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    It is the only reason it happened.
    At least someone might have learnt something.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    Fireworks in deepest remania central Cardiff! Genuinely surprised. Almost subversive round here.

    The noise from fireworks carries far.
    No, these were in the next street.
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    The Berkshire sky is deathly silent.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    No maybe about it.

    The maybe is would Cameron have become PM if the restrictions had been imposed.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    nico67 said:

    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

    It's delusional claptrap, certainly, but I have a horrible feeling that they do believe it.

    2020 is just going to be a repeat of the Withdrawal Agreement negotiation: stupid bluster from the Brexiteers, followed by the inevitable climbdown when they bump up against their own brain-dead, self-imposed deadline.
    Chill, and get with the programme.

    You’re uncharacteristically remoaney tonight.
  • Options


    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
    I have not mentioned no deal at all, why bring it in unless your argument is so weak that it is not worth stating. My point is that as soon as the PD was released by the EU/UK it was 100% clear that there would be customs checks and SPS checks at the border. Only a complete idiot thinks this is being done now for leverage, it was all agreed a long time ago and is the default outcome.
    Take it up with Peter Foster, he's the one quoting UK negotiators saying it will give us leverage.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    It is a bit rich of Labour to be claiming it was a well intentioned. They have already admitted it was designed to upset the Right. "I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn't its main purpose - to rub the Right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dont-listen-to-the-whingers-london-needs-immigrants-6786170.html
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    theProletheProle Posts: 948
    welshowl said:

    Fireworks in deepest remania central Cardiff! Genuinely surprised. Almost subversive round here.

    Sure it isn't just someone starting up one of the Class 37s locos currently living on Canton Depot?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited January 2020

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    It is a bit rich of Labour to be claiming it was a well intentioned. They have already admitted it was designed to upset the Right. "I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn't its main purpose - to rub the Right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dont-listen-to-the-whingers-london-needs-immigrants-6786170.html
    Ah, is that schadenfreude i'm feeling right now? :D
  • Options
    alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    viewcode said:

    welshowl said:

    Fireworks in deepest remania central Cardiff! Genuinely surprised. Almost subversive round here.

    The noise from fireworks carries far.
    It's probably Sunderland.
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    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Now what?

    We sit back and watch the Leavers cry as their Pyrrhic victory turns to ashes at the hands of Boris's ineptitude.
    Because, let me guess, Boris owns Brexit? It's not that I don't sympathise, but nothing looks more impotent than premature schadenfreude.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618

    viewcode said:

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
    If he is going to impose customs posts, perhaps you can enlighten us on where they will be on goods travelling from the Republic of Ireland to Great Britain via Northern Ireland. Or do I have to bring up hemispatial neglect again?
    On that particular bit, in the Irish Sea, as required, or digitally. And yes, I know he says he won’t etc blah blah blah, so don’t bother pointing that out to me.

    Try and make a new interesting point rather than an old and boring one, gone over a million times.
    "In the Irish Sea"? I have this image of a shed on a raft.

    More seriously, I appreciate you find it boring, but it is also important and relevant. The inability/refusal of people to come to terms with this point - as evinced by your uncharacteristically rude response - is notable.
  • Options
    alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    dodrade said:

    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!

    12 mins now and the sky hasn't fallen in.
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201


    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
    I have not mentioned no deal at all, why bring it in unless your argument is so weak that it is not worth stating. My point is that as soon as the PD was released by the EU/UK it was 100% clear that there would be customs checks and SPS checks at the border. Only a complete idiot thinks this is being done now for leverage, it was all agreed a long time ago and is the default outcome.
    Take it up with Peter Foster, he's the one quoting UK negotiators saying it will give us leverage.
    Dear oh dear, "Oh it is not me it is the big boy at the Telegraph." Pathetic.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    alterego said:

    dodrade said:

    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!

    12 mins now and the sky hasn't fallen in.
    Look at all the new hospitals.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    alterego said:

    dodrade said:

    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!

    12 mins now and the sky hasn't fallen in.
    But we haven't left yet...


    oh.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Jonathan said:

    alterego said:

    dodrade said:

    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!

    12 mins now and the sky hasn't fallen in.
    Look at all the new hospitals.
    Easy, we've only made about £200k off this so far.
  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Don't like being outside EU

    Cyclefree Meeks Tyson and the other moneyed left were right. Can we come back please?

    😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    If this report is accurate, the fantasists running the government have learnt nothing:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/31/boris-johnson-ramps-pressure-eu-plans-impose-full-customs-border/

    “We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”
    ...
    UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU.

    A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

    And, there we have it. The EU *are* worried about it, that comment is very telling, but they just don’t believe them.

    The difference between Boris and May is that he may well mean it, and he has the votes to do it too.
    If he is going to impose customs posts, perhaps you can enlighten us on where they will be on goods travelling from the Republic of Ireland to Great Britain via Northern Ireland. Or do I have to bring up hemispatial neglect again?
    On that particular bit, in the Irish Sea, as required, or digitally. And yes, I know he says he won’t etc blah blah blah, so don’t bother pointing that out to me.

    Try and make a new interesting point rather than an old and boring one, gone over a million times.
    "In the Irish Sea"? I have this image of a shed on a raft.

    More seriously, I appreciate you find it boring, but it is also important and relevant. The inability/refusal of people to come to terms with this point - as evinced by your uncharacteristically rude response - is notable.
    Yaaaaaaaaawwwnnn

    You asked a stupid question. So I gave a stupid answer.

    We’ve all moved on from NI border now. That’s so 2019.

    Next.
  • Options
    @kinabalu

    Another surge continues also, the ALLIANCE surge!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079

    Does that include the Vietnam war ?

    Certainly not. But glamour boy JFK is much to blame for that by my reading. He gets cut a lot of slack on account of being shot with a high powered rifle in Dealey Plaza on that fateful November day at some point in the early 60s.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    It is a bit rich of Labour to be claiming it was a well intentioned. They have already admitted it was designed to upset the Right. "I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn't its main purpose - to rub the Right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dont-listen-to-the-whingers-london-needs-immigrants-6786170.html
    They sowed the wind, and have reaped the whirlwind.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2020


    What bit of the political declaration that says we will not be in a customs union do you not understand?

    No bit.

    So, are you seriously repeating the garbage about how the EU will fold if we threaten no deal? Really? I mean, really, really?
    I have not mentioned no deal at all, why bring it in unless your argument is so weak that it is not worth stating. My point is that as soon as the PD was released by the EU/UK it was 100% clear that there would be customs checks and SPS checks at the border. Only a complete idiot thinks this is being done now for leverage, it was all agreed a long time ago and is the default outcome.
    Take it up with Peter Foster, he's the one quoting UK negotiators saying it will give us leverage.
    Dear oh dear, "Oh it is not me it is the big boy at the Telegraph." Pathetic.
    Not at all. I prefaced my original post with 'If this report is accurate..'. Peter Foster is generally extremely well-informed, but maybe he's got this wrong. If so then clearly my conclusion would be different.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    RobD said:

    Now what?

    We sit back and watch the Leavers cry as their Pyrrhic victory turns to ashes at the hands of Boris's ineptitude.
    PB is addictive, isn't it? :D
    Not really. The last six weeks collective w*nkfest of the PB Tories has not exactly made edifying reading. I have only popped back here for the non-event, damp squib that is Brexit. There are no parties in the street around here, no fireworks. This is not a nation celebrating its freedom.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    GIN1138 said:

    Thanks Jezza. We couldn't have done it without you. :D

    THIS. 1000x THIS. Tweet of the evening.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    alterego said:

    dodrade said:

    Personally I think the first ten minutes have been a great success!

    12 mins now and the sky hasn't fallen in.
    Look at all the new hospitals.
    Easy, we've only made about £200k off this so far.
    You can just feel the control flooding back.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618
    Ave_it said:

    Don't like being outside EU

    Cyclefree Meeks Tyson and the other moneyed left were right. Can we come back please?

    😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

    Stop using smilies! I have a stockpile of exclamation marks for your return!! If you don't use them I will have to use them myself!!!!!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,894

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe this is one of the reasons why it happened:

    "Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said.
    The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU nine years ago was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".
    Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219

    No maybe about it.

    The maybe is would Cameron have become PM if the restrictions had been imposed.
    What’s amazing is that the Blair government didn’t seem to consider the way it would alter the votes of the millions of British people affected. Genuine hubris.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,134
    Still Euromillions on the national lottery.
    Hanging on in there.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    Now what?

    We sit back and watch the Leavers cry as their Pyrrhic victory turns to ashes at the hands of Boris's ineptitude.
    PB is addictive, isn't it? :D
    Not really. The last six weeks collective w*nkfest of the PB Tories has not exactly made edifying reading. I have only popped back here for the non-event, damp squib that is Brexit. There are no parties in the street around here, no fireworks. This is not a nation celebrating its freedom.
    Ah, thought you had returned since you have your old avatar back. My apologies.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    edited January 2020
    Jonathan said:

    nico67 said:

    It’s not credible though . The ports haven’t even got the infrastructure to cope , this is just more delusional clap trap to keep the WW2 wannabes happy .

    It's delusional claptrap, certainly, but I have a horrible feeling that they do believe it.

    2020 is just going to be a repeat of the Withdrawal Agreement negotiation: stupid bluster from the Brexiteers, followed by the inevitable climbdown when they bump up against their own brain-dead, self-imposed deadline.
    We hold ALL the cards.
    No, but we do hold some cards.

    The balance of advantage lies somewhere between 30-70 to the EU to 40-60 to the EU, depending on the issue. On financial services and the city it might even be at parity.

    Yet, the debate always seems to plunge new depths of reducto ad absurdium and hinge on whether it’s 100-0, or 0-100.

    It’s pointless, repetitive, unenlightening and depressing.
This discussion has been closed.