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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you are betting on the Iowa caucuses be warned – Betfair co

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you are betting on the Iowa caucuses be warned – Betfair could be paying out on a different winner than Ladbrokes

We all know that tonight’s Iowa caucuses are a unique form of election and are highly complicated. That perception could be even more the case tonight when it comes to working out the winner.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2020
    FPT
    nico67 said:

    Endillion said:

    nico67 said:

    The UK can kiss goodbye to Horizon and other collaborative projects .All non EU countries involved in those accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ .

    Why should the UK be treated differently ? If you want to take part in projects which the EU run then it’s not rocket science that you’ll be under the ECJ . If you don’t like that then sod off to be blunt !

    Er, because international trade isn't a "project which the EU runs"?
    I wasn’t talking about trade . Horizon and other science projects aswell as Erasmus are EU projects with the ability of some non EU members to take part . If you want to take part you accept the ECJ . That’s it , if you don’t like it don’t take part .
    So the solution seems to be to launch our own alternatives to Horizon then.

    Considering we have multiple world leading universities and punch well above our weight with scientific research, technology and Nobel Laureates etc while the EU lacks even having any leading universities I see little reason for us to subcontract out to an inferior foreign entity our scientific programs.

    We can and should cooperate globally but the cold reality of that is that until the EU develops we may end up cooperating more across the Atlantic.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Better speak to an ex-MP with immense flexibility of principles who posts here.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    There's some awful figures about Sanders supporters saying they won't vote for other candidates at the General if Sanders loses.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    See Quammen`s excellent book on the topic: "Spillover: Animal Infections and the Next Human Pandemic"
  • Options
    matt said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Better speak to an ex-MP with immense flexibility of principles who posts here.
    Sanders supporters are no better than Corbynistas. They're going to doom us to 4 more years of Trump and won't even feel guilty about it.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    On topic: I saw a report (can`t remember where) saying that 7 of the 9 last democratic nominees won the Iowa caucus. So there must be a winner in order to come up with such a statistic. I`m confused.
  • Options

    matt said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Better speak to an ex-MP with immense flexibility of principles who posts here.
    Sanders supporters are no better than Corbynistas. They're going to doom us to 4 more years of Trump and won't even feel guilty about it.
    When the full scale of Labour's defeat at the GE became apparent, there were lots of reports about US 'progressives' learning the lesson about not choosing a far-left candidate. That lesson seems to have been forgotten already.
  • Options
    Alistair said:
    Following Sanders own example. Sanders isn't a Democrat.
  • Options
    Hmm. I have a pair of dubious looking messages from BestTips, whom I've never heard of.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
  • Options

    FPT

    nico67 said:

    Endillion said:

    nico67 said:

    The UK can kiss goodbye to Horizon and other collaborative projects .All non EU countries involved in those accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ .

    Why should the UK be treated differently ? If you want to take part in projects which the EU run then it’s not rocket science that you’ll be under the ECJ . If you don’t like that then sod off to be blunt !

    Er, because international trade isn't a "project which the EU runs"?
    I wasn’t talking about trade . Horizon and other science projects aswell as Erasmus are EU projects with the ability of some non EU members to take part . If you want to take part you accept the ECJ . That’s it , if you don’t like it don’t take part .
    So the solution seems to be to launch our own alternatives to Horizon then.

    Considering we have multiple world leading universities and punch well above our weight with scientific research, technology and Nobel Laureates etc while the EU lacks even having any leading universities I see little reason for us to subcontract out to an inferior foreign entity our scientific programs.

    We can and should cooperate globally but the cold reality of that is that until the EU develops we may end up cooperating more across the Atlantic.
    Be careful with universities because, like Iowa, it depends what you count.

    By coincidence, my browser is open at Nature's (our leading scientific research journal) 2019 tables, which show that for Natural Sciences research in 2018, Britain came fourth behind the United States, China, and, erm, Germany.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01921-0

    For physical sciences, the only European institutions at the top are in France, Germany and Switzerland. (Though if Oxford and Cambridge were to merge, or the University of London to report as one institution, things might be different.)
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01920-1

    So while we Brits punch above our weight, it is not as if the Continentals are back in the Stone Age. Pb used to have a very wise poster called @SeanT who never comes here any more, but used to warn against Osborne's cuts while China was throwing money at anyone with a white coat and bunsen burner. He may have had a point.
  • Options

    matt said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Better speak to an ex-MP with immense flexibility of principles who posts here.
    Sanders supporters are no better than Corbynistas. They're going to doom us to 4 more years of Trump and won't even feel guilty about it.
    As you say it is a real pickle for the Dems. If Sanders loses then some of the Democrat base may not turn up for the general election and Trump wins. If Sanders wins then the base will turn out but he may scare off some of the suburban women and independents.

    And the Dems really need to win this election as I'm not sure Bader Ginsburg can hang on for another 5 years.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
    It could be correct - flu wipes out a lot of old folk. Flu is serious.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432

    FPT

    nico67 said:

    Endillion said:

    nico67 said:

    The UK can kiss goodbye to Horizon and other collaborative projects .All non EU countries involved in those accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ .

    Why should the UK be treated differently ? If you want to take part in projects which the EU run then it’s not rocket science that you’ll be under the ECJ . If you don’t like that then sod off to be blunt !

    Er, because international trade isn't a "project which the EU runs"?
    I wasn’t talking about trade . Horizon and other science projects aswell as Erasmus are EU projects with the ability of some non EU members to take part . If you want to take part you accept the ECJ . That’s it , if you don’t like it don’t take part .
    So the solution seems to be to launch our own alternatives to Horizon then.

    Considering we have multiple world leading universities and punch well above our weight with scientific research, technology and Nobel Laureates etc while the EU lacks even having any leading universities I see little reason for us to subcontract out to an inferior foreign entity our scientific programs.
    One reason is that, in this area at least, we got more money out than we put in
    (see, e.g. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01566-z )
    I don't have the figures to hand, but the above goes up to 2019, I think, so incorporates a possible dip -I don't know whether there are figures on that, but a general concensus in my field that it has happened - in applications/approved applications since 2016.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Even if you value ejection of Trump literally over anything else, there's the problem that polling suggests that all the candidates are much of a muchness in terms of who can beat Trump. For some reason Buttigieg is consistently worse, but only by a couple of points.

    Lots of us, including me, feel that Sanders has exploitable issues that Trump will seize on. But there's a view that Trump will launch a barrage against anyone and robust resilience to it is what matters. On that count Sanders may score quite well.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2020
    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Option two favors Sanders. Option three might see a different winner. Simply, in some rural precincts, votes might be worth 2-3x what they are in Des Moines.
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    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is:
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Chilling. One wonders whether this lot wanted freedom from Europe so that they could dismantle our democracy.
  • Options
    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Chilling. One wonders whether this lot wanted freedom from Europe so that they could dismantle our democracy.
    Wait until you see what they try and do to the independent judiciary. Genuinely worrying behaviour.
  • Options

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Even if you value ejection of Trump literally over anything else, there's the problem that polling suggests that all the candidates are much of a muchness in terms of who can beat Trump. For some reason Buttigieg is consistently worse, but only by a couple of points.

    Lots of us, including me, feel that Sanders has exploitable issues that Trump will seize on. But there's a view that Trump will launch a barrage against anyone and robust resilience to it is what matters. On that count Sanders may score quite well.
    I just don't believe this match-up polling.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760
    edited February 2020

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is:
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Chilling. One wonders whether this lot wanted freedom from Europe so that they could dismantle our democracy.
    Whist it would be a stretch to say that those who voted for Leave did not want such a thing - plainly most did not - it isn't difficult to think that those in power wanted exactly that. Think of it as asset-stripping.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Alistair said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    There's some awful figures about Sanders supporters saying they won't vote for other candidates at the General if Sanders loses.
    I read the last bit as "if General Sanders loses". Helluva promotion from Colonel.

    I suspect that in practice most of them will in the end vote for whoever is opposing Trump. Time is a great healer, and they'll have had several months to process.

    On the chance that they don't: I wonder whether we'll experience a similar phenomenon here if (as expected) Starmer beats out RLB to the Labour leadership? I would guess not, but it would be very funny. The campaign doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere near nasty enough for this to be plausible, but a) there's still a long way to go and b) I'm unclear that that's the driver in the US either.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    viewcode said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is:
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Chilling. One wonders whether this lot wanted freedom from Europe so that they could dismantle our democracy.
    Whist it would be a stretch to say that those who voted for Leave did not want such a thing - plainly most did not - it isn't difficult to think that those in power wanted exactly that. Think of it as asset-stripping.
    I'm curious as to why the government needed to leave the EU to ban specific journalists from No 10 briefings?

    Also, who were the "people in power" who wanted us to leave the EU? Cos it certainly doesn't include Boris Johnson. I'm struggling with the notion that Dominic Cummings invented the Leave campaign solely or primarily to damage the left wing media apparatus by keeping them out the loop on major stories.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Frightening. It'll be handouts and no questions, even from the selected, next.
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    Deeply unimpressive from the Government, in contrast (for once) with the political journalists. Kudos to them.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    See Quammen`s excellent book on the topic: "Spillover: Animal Infections and the Next Human Pandemic"
    Yep. Having been either housebound or bedridden for a week I have done a lot of thinking about this

    It is inevitable that one day a virus like this will cross the barrier, and be genuinely fucking terrible and lethal - 30, 40% mortality - rather than the relatively kindly SARS and corona that we have experienced to date.

    What will that do to us? How would we cope?

    I also now realize that health experts and microbiologists and epidemiologists must already be anticipating this, hence their reaction to my possible case, which is a mixture of concern, chaos, denial, and honest but anxious ignorance

    I could be just another man flu. Or Typhoid Mary
    Go back just over 100 years. 'Spanish' flu killed more people that than WWI did.
  • Options
    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
  • Options
    Mr. Eagles, be fair. Just trying to unify the country (admittedly, against him).
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Yes, but it's hardly a surprise now is it?... :(
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
    Is he wrong on the point about previous administrations having an "inner lobby"?

    I did see that he'd had a bust up with the lobby over live tweeting, which he won.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
    Is he wrong on the point about previous administrations having an "inner lobby"?

    I did see that he'd had a bust up with the lobby over live tweeting, which he won.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1224352927579623425
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
    Is he wrong on the point about previous administrations having an "inner lobby"?

    I did see that he'd had a bust up with the lobby over live tweeting, which he won.
    There’s an inner lobby for briefings by Number 10 but as far I understand there’s never been an inner lobby when the briefing is from a non Number 10 civil servant.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
    Yes. Flu is underestimated. It kills the old and weak. Still.

    Also we’ve got lazy in saying a bad cold is flu. They are quite different.
    My bad. I may have exaggerated the stats. I did google it when I was ill with... weird Asian flu. Influenza is nasty but it seems to range from about 3% mortality to 0.03%, tho the severe outbreaks (eg 1918) are at the much higher end.
    Imagine if 1918 happened every year.

    That could be the future with Mexicanlagervirus.
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
    Is he wrong on the point about previous administrations having an "inner lobby"?

    I did see that he'd had a bust up with the lobby over live tweeting, which he won.
    There’s an inner lobby for briefings by Number 10 but as far I understand there’s never been an inner lobby when the briefing is from a non Number 10 civil servant.
    Back to the days when The Times had its own briefings apart from the other papers?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Anorak said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anorak said:

    What an absolute shower of snowflakes this government is.
    EDIT: This is fundamentally un-British behaviour. Fair play to the Mail and Telegraph for walking out in solidarity.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1224345957409656839

    Shameful behaviour from Boris the coward.

    No chance I renew my membership in May.
    Guido has a different take on events...

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/
    Of course he does.
    Is he wrong on the point about previous administrations having an "inner lobby"?

    I did see that he'd had a bust up with the lobby over live tweeting, which he won.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1224352927579623425
    That doesn't sound good. But then neither was this:

    https://tinyurl.com/zn9uads

    A vote to leave would cause a profound economic shock creating instability and uncertainty which would be compounded by the complex and interdependent negotiations that would follow. The central conclusion of the analysis is that the effect of this profound shock would be to push the UK into recession and lead to a sharp rise in unemployment.

    Two scenarios have been modelled to provide analysis of the adverse impact on the economy: a ‘shock’ to the economy, and a ‘severe shock’.

    In the ‘shock’ scenario, a vote to leave would result in a recession, a spike in inflation and a rise in unemployment. After two years, the analysis shows that GDP would be around 3.6% lower in the shock scenario compared with a vote to remain. In this scenario, the fall in the value of the pound would be around 12%, and unemployment would increase by around 500,000, with all regions experiencing a rise in the number of people out of work.

    In the ‘severe shock’ scenario, the rise in uncertainty, the effect on financial conditions and the transition effects are larger. The analysis shows that after two years the level of GDP would be 6% lower, the fall in the value of the pound would be 15% and unemployment would increase by around 800,000.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    Boris isn't exactly popular among contributors on this site - I still come here everyday - so it doesn't hurt to hear the other side of the story.
  • Options
    Andrew Sparrow in that well-known Boris-sycophant rag The Guardian rather supports the No 10 account:

    [A No 10 source] pointed out that the Guardian was invited to today’s briefing, as well as the Times, the BBC, ITV and Sky. He also said that there were selective lobby briefings when Theresa May was PM.

    In fact, the practice goes back much further than that. Years ago I wrote a history of the lobby, and this was even happening in the 1960s, when the term “white commonwealth” was used to describe those journalists favoured by Harold Wilson who were given special access during his premiership.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/feb/03/brexit-news-boris--johnson-speech-barnier-cabinet-ministers-claims-uk-does-not-need-trade-deal-with-eu-ahead-of-pms-speech-live-news
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    Boris isn't exactly popular among contributors on this site - I still come here everyday - so it doesn't hurt to hear the other side of the story.
    Paul Staines is a terrible ‘journalist’.

    Many in the Tory party haven’t forgiven him for the disgusting homophobic smears against William Hague when William & Ffion we’re going through a bad time trying to start a family.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
  • Options

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Crimes against humanity on their websites, including the full horror of autoplaying videos when you are trying to read an article.
  • Options
    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
  • Options

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Well the i has been bought by The Daily Mail owners.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Apart from being pure anti-Tory propaganda?
  • Options
    Mr. Stodge, the Praetorians killed more emperors than they saved.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
    Your point was wrong, Hillary did not seek to uselessly maximise votes in California, any more than Trump sought to maximise votes in Arkansas.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Crimes against humanity on their websites, including the full horror of autoplaying videos when you are trying to read an article.
    And not letting me view their site because I have an ad-blocker, despite the fact that the blocker is turned off and I can see the bloody adverts behind the big "turn off your adblocker" notice.
  • Options
    According to this article published just a couple of weeks before the 2016 Presidential Election in the analysed period: https://adage.com/article/campaign-trail/states-where-trump-clinton-spending-most-on-advertising/306377

    Only Trump and pro-Trump PACs were advertising in Wisconsin
    Only Clinton and pro-Clinton PACs were advertising in California

    In the final weeks of the campaign Clinton went campaigning in California. She did not visit Wisconsin.

    Trump won Wisconsin's 10 electoral college votes by 0.77%. California was not close.
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    Anorak said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Crimes against humanity on their websites, including the full horror of autoplaying videos when you are trying to read an article.
    And not letting me view their site because I have an ad-blocker, despite the fact that the blocker is turned off and I can see the bloody adverts behind the big "turn off your adblocker" notice.
    I very occasionally want to read an Independent article (usually John Rentoul), so I use a different browser without ad-blocking. The experience is so ghastly that I usually give up after a few seconds, or just give the piece a cursory read before immediately closing the page.

    Why does no-one produce a browser which simply blocks all animations, without a single exception, unless you explicitly authorise them? That way you wouldn't need to bother with ad-blockers.
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    Andrew Sparrow in that well-known Boris-sycophant rag The Guardian rather supports the No 10 account:

    [A No 10 source] pointed out that the Guardian was invited to today’s briefing, as well as the Times, the BBC, ITV and Sky. He also said that there were selective lobby briefings when Theresa May was PM.

    In fact, the practice goes back much further than that. Years ago I wrote a history of the lobby, and this was even happening in the 1960s, when the term “white commonwealth” was used to describe those journalists favoured by Harold Wilson who were given special access during his premiership.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/feb/03/brexit-news-boris--johnson-speech-barnier-cabinet-ministers-claims-uk-does-not-need-trade-deal-with-eu-ahead-of-pms-speech-live-news

    So much ado about nothing?
  • Options
    Worrying story involving an Air Canada plane developing in Madrid ...
    https://twitter.com/matthewbennett/status/1224344633796329474
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Circulation for the Indie
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854

    Mr. Stodge, the Praetorians killed more emperors than they saved.

    My analogy was chosen with some care, Mr Dancer. I'm well aware the Praetorians effectively offered the Empire for sale after the death of Commodus.

    I suspect there is a cadre of bloggers and commentators who may believe they now own the soul of the Conservative Party and can make or break a leader, whether Prime Minister or not.

    They may even believe they brought down May and perhaps Cameron too.
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    Andrew Sparrow in that well-known Boris-sycophant rag The Guardian rather supports the No 10 account:

    [A No 10 source] pointed out that the Guardian was invited to today’s briefing, as well as the Times, the BBC, ITV and Sky. He also said that there were selective lobby briefings when Theresa May was PM.

    In fact, the practice goes back much further than that. Years ago I wrote a history of the lobby, and this was even happening in the 1960s, when the term “white commonwealth” was used to describe those journalists favoured by Harold Wilson who were given special access during his premiership.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/feb/03/brexit-news-boris--johnson-speech-barnier-cabinet-ministers-claims-uk-does-not-need-trade-deal-with-eu-ahead-of-pms-speech-live-news

    So much ado about nothing?
    Regular readers will know I'm not exactly a Boris fan, but yes I think it might be. It sounds to me as though the problem was the cack-handedness of the civil servant who was supposed to let in the invited journalists.

  • Options
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
    Your point was wrong, Hillary did not seek to uselessly maximise votes in California, any more than Trump sought to maximise votes in Arkansas.
    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Andrew Sparrow in that well-known Boris-sycophant rag The Guardian rather supports the No 10 account:

    [A No 10 source] pointed out that the Guardian was invited to today’s briefing, as well as the Times, the BBC, ITV and Sky. He also said that there were selective lobby briefings when Theresa May was PM.

    In fact, the practice goes back much further than that. Years ago I wrote a history of the lobby, and this was even happening in the 1960s, when the term “white commonwealth” was used to describe those journalists favoured by Harold Wilson who were given special access during his premiership.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/feb/03/brexit-news-boris--johnson-speech-barnier-cabinet-ministers-claims-uk-does-not-need-trade-deal-with-eu-ahead-of-pms-speech-live-news

    So much ado about nothing?
    Well, there goes your prospective career with ITV.
  • Options

    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.

    It was even worse than that - the unions had heard from their local contacts that things weren't going too well in Wisconsin, and were organising a GOTV operation to shore up the Dem vote. Hillary's central campaign stopped them from doing it.
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    Mr. Stodge, it didn't do Didius Julianus much good for long.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150

    Anorak said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Crimes against humanity on their websites, including the full horror of autoplaying videos when you are trying to read an article.
    And not letting me view their site because I have an ad-blocker, despite the fact that the blocker is turned off and I can see the bloody adverts behind the big "turn off your adblocker" notice.
    I very occasionally want to read an Independent article (usually John Rentoul), so I use a different browser without ad-blocking. The experience is so ghastly that I usually give up after a few seconds, or just give the piece a cursory read before immediately closing the page.

    Why does no-one produce a browser which simply blocks all animations, without a single exception, unless you explicitly authorise them? That way you wouldn't need to bother with ad-blockers.
    I use the "reader view" in Firefox (which I believe is designed for smart mobiles, but is fine on a laptop too).

  • Options
    Mr. Endillion, Cupid's butt-shaft!
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Andrew Sparrow in that well-known Boris-sycophant rag The Guardian rather supports the No 10 account:

    [A No 10 source] pointed out that the Guardian was invited to today’s briefing, as well as the Times, the BBC, ITV and Sky. He also said that there were selective lobby briefings when Theresa May was PM.

    In fact, the practice goes back much further than that. Years ago I wrote a history of the lobby, and this was even happening in the 1960s, when the term “white commonwealth” was used to describe those journalists favoured by Harold Wilson who were given special access during his premiership.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/feb/03/brexit-news-boris--johnson-speech-barnier-cabinet-ministers-claims-uk-does-not-need-trade-deal-with-eu-ahead-of-pms-speech-live-news

    So much ado about nothing?
    Regular readers will know I'm not exactly a Boris fan, but yes I think it might be. It sounds to me as though the problem was the cack-handedness of the civil servant who was supposed to let in the invited journalists.

    And also much as they may not like it, the press are not the story.

    The egos of journalists need to be kept in control as a big ego can easily result in poor reporting.
  • Options
    geoffw said:

    Anorak said:

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Crimes against humanity on their websites, including the full horror of autoplaying videos when you are trying to read an article.
    And not letting me view their site because I have an ad-blocker, despite the fact that the blocker is turned off and I can see the bloody adverts behind the big "turn off your adblocker" notice.
    I very occasionally want to read an Independent article (usually John Rentoul), so I use a different browser without ad-blocking. The experience is so ghastly that I usually give up after a few seconds, or just give the piece a cursory read before immediately closing the page.

    Why does no-one produce a browser which simply blocks all animations, without a single exception, unless you explicitly authorise them? That way you wouldn't need to bother with ad-blockers.
    I use the "reader view" in Firefox (which I believe is designed for smart mobiles, but is fine on a laptop too).

    Yes, I use that sometimes, but it doesn't always work. For example it sometimes gives you only part of the article.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    edited February 2020

    Worrying story involving an Air Canada plane developing in Madrid ...
    https://twitter.com/matthewbennett/status/1224344633796329474

    Landing gear "fell off"...circling to dump fuel.

    Edit: burn, not dump.

    Over to PPrune we go.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
    Your point was wrong, Hillary did not seek to uselessly maximise votes in California, any more than Trump sought to maximise votes in Arkansas.
    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.
    I seem to recall some disbelieving posts on the subject at the time.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
    Your point was wrong, Hillary did not seek to uselessly maximise votes in California, any more than Trump sought to maximise votes in Arkansas.
    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.
    I was unaware of the detail. It seems as if she (or her campaign managers) were indeed copper-bottomed dimwits.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    That was quite a speech today by Boris, thanks @moonshine for referencing it. I can't imagine any other politician giving such an engaging and informative talk.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    stodge said:

    tlg86 said:
    Guido is the Praetorian Guard protecting Emperor Boris.

    Those who only get their news from him will get their prejudices re-enforced but that's the point, isn't it? You don't go to Guido for objective reporting.

    The day Guido turns on Boris will be significant.
    What on earth though, has either the I or the Indie done wrong?
    Well the i has been bought by The Daily Mail owners.
    The Mirror Group may have bought the Express but it didn't seem to affect its stance ... sadly.
  • Options
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Hillary did not seek to maximise votes in California. That would have been colossal waste of resources, and a route only an idiot would have taken.
    I think that was my point.
    Your point was wrong, Hillary did not seek to uselessly maximise votes in California, any more than Trump sought to maximise votes in Arkansas.
    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.
    I was unaware of the detail. It seems as if she (or her campaign managers) were indeed copper-bottomed dimwits.
    Worse than that -- Team Hillary had made precisely the same mistake when losing to Obama in the primaries, and learned nothing.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    Afternoon again all :)

    I wonder how much Boris's speech today compared with this:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/full-text-boris-johnsons-brexit-speech/

    I thought it was today's speech - perhaps it is.
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    This is an example of a very BBC article - Joaquin Phoenix being universally “praised” for speaking out against ‘systemic racism’. And it’s mostly a Twitter dump that the BBC have used to create the headline.

    There is precisely no counter argument. No challenge that the argument on ‘system racism’ may be overblown. No evidence of that very serious charge given. No explanation included of the rationale for the decisions over the nominations or the awards from BAFTA themselves. No positive suggestions of how they might be changed. Not even (and it’s not a line of criticism I like) pointing out of the hypocrisy in that he himself accepted an award, and is White, It’s a lot of rhetoric, and grandstanding waffle.

    And this seems to be par for the course for BBC journalism these days.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51355206
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    Ireland Update :


  • Options

    This is an example of a very BBC article - Joaquin Phoenix being universally “praised” for speaking out against ‘systemic racism’. And it’s mostly a Twitter dump that the BBC have used to create the headline.

    There is precisely no counter argument. No challenge that the argument on ‘system racism’ may be overblown. No evidence of that very serious charge given. No explanation included of the rationale for the decisions over the nominations or the awards from BAFTA themselves. No positive suggestions of how they might be changed. Not even (and it’s not a line of criticism I like) pointing out of the hypocrisy in that he himself accepted an award, and is White, It’s a lot of rhetoric, and grandstanding waffle.

    And this seems to be par for the course for BBC journalism these days.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51355206

    I hate the way that more and more BBC "News" articles are just Twitter dumps.

    Twitter is not news and its not representative.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Sanders is a terrible campaigner, I can tell this because he lost to Hilary and Hillary is the worst presidential campaigner of all time.

    They knew they were in trouble in the rust belt and deliberately chose not to campaign there. It wasn't accidentally leaving them out, it was deliberate strategy.
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    Here are the committee for BAFTA both for film and television:

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/television-committee

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/film-committee

    They both have BAME representation, including Noel Clarke who wrote Kidulthood, and the television one is overwhelmingly female.

    Do we think (just possibly) that rather than being all ghastly racists there is something else going on? Like, this year the best nominees won??
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Sanders is a terrible campaigner, I can tell this because he lost to Hilary and Hillary is the worst presidential campaigner of all time.

    They knew they were in trouble in the rust belt and deliberately chose not to campaign there. It wasn't accidentally leaving them out, it was deliberate strategy.
    It was unforgivable madness. To "save face" and not make it look like Trump was close they let Trump win.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,376
    edited February 2020

    This is an example of a very BBC article - Joaquin Phoenix being universally “praised” for speaking out against ‘systemic racism’. And it’s mostly a Twitter dump that the BBC have used to create the headline.

    There is precisely no counter argument. No challenge that the argument on ‘system racism’ may be overblown. No evidence of that very serious charge given. No explanation included of the rationale for the decisions over the nominations or the awards from BAFTA themselves. No positive suggestions of how they might be changed. Not even (and it’s not a line of criticism I like) pointing out of the hypocrisy in that he himself accepted an award, and is White, It’s a lot of rhetoric, and grandstanding waffle.

    And this seems to be par for the course for BBC journalism these days.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51355206

    I hate the way that more and more BBC "News" articles are just Twitter dumps.

    Twitter is not news and its not representative.
    Not just the BBC. It is surprising how many stories on the papers' sites are Twitter dumps, or straight lifts from other papers. Journalism is hard and expensive and no-one seems to be doing it any more.

    ETA my own pet peeve for 20 or more years is the BBC taking its lead from the American news channels, especially overnight and at weekends when more senior staff have gone home, meaning American domestic stories are given far too much prominence.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2020

    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.

    It was even worse than that - the unions had heard from their local contacts that things weren't going too well in Wisconsin, and were organising a GOTV operation to shore up the Dem vote. Hillary's central campaign stopped them from doing it.
    Turned the bus round to Iowa which she had no chance in.

    Hilary's Campaign staff were seemingly obsessed with proving that Obama had won in the 'wrong' way. They were obsessed with projecting strength, thus the trips to Arizona and the like. I read the strength and assumed Clinton was a lock so did not green out my position.

    So furious with them.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760
    Alistair said:

    rpjs said:

    Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

    Anyone in 2020 preferring to see the candidature of Sanders over the ejection of Trump should be ashamed of themselves.

    Oh please, do I have to post my explanation that American political parties are Not Like British ones, again? Perhaps I should write a macro.

    There's a lot of feeling here that the mainstream "moderate" politicians of either party have failed to make any difference. That's why Trump won, and it's why, when Trump's failure is clear as the economy weakens, Sanders or Warren can win as well.

    For the record, when the New York primary swings round at the end of April I will be voting for whichever of Sanders or Warren appears to be best placed, and if neither is clearly ahead, I will vote for Sanders.
    Trump won because he won swing states in the Midwest because Hillary ignored them and concentrated on maximising votes in places like New York and California.

    Believing Sanders is the solution to that is like believing drinking absinthe will sober you up.
    Sanders is a terrible campaigner, I can tell this because he lost to Hilary and Hillary is the worst presidential campaigner of all time.

    They knew they were in trouble in the rust belt and deliberately chose not to campaign there. It wasn't accidentally leaving them out, it was deliberate strategy.
    Given this, and the increasing possibility[1] that Sanders may be candidate in Nov, should we not be piling onto Trump?

    [1] Yes I know you don't believe so @rcs1000 , but run with me for a minute... :(
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,617

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
    Yes. Flu is underestimated. It kills the old and weak. Still.

    Also we’ve got lazy in saying a bad cold is flu. They are quite different.
    My bad. I may have exaggerated the stats. I did google it when I was ill with... weird Asian flu. Influenza is nasty but it seems to range from about 3% mortality to 0.03%, tho the severe outbreaks (eg 1918) are at the much higher end.
    Imagine if 1918 happened every year.

    That could be the future with Mexicanlagervirus.
    One of the characteristics of the Spanish Flu of 1918 was that it wasn't just the old and infirm who succumbed. There was an unusually high mortality of the previously fit and well. There was ne excellent docu-drama on it last year, to be repeated shortly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0blmn5l/clips
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Alistair said:

    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.

    It was even worse than that - the unions had heard from their local contacts that things weren't going too well in Wisconsin, and were organising a GOTV operation to shore up the Dem vote. Hillary's central campaign stopped them from doing it.
    Turned the bus round to Iowa which she had no chance in.

    Hilary's Campaign staff were seemingly obsessed with proving that Obama had won in the 'wrong' way. They were obsessed with projecting strength, thus the trips to Arizona and the like. I read the strength and assumed Clinton was a lock so did not green out my position.

    So furious with them.
    The irony being that their strategy worked on you, but not enough actual voters to justify it.
  • Options

    This is an example of a very BBC article - Joaquin Phoenix being universally “praised” for speaking out against ‘systemic racism’. And it’s mostly a Twitter dump that the BBC have used to create the headline.

    There is precisely no counter argument. No challenge that the argument on ‘system racism’ may be overblown. No evidence of that very serious charge given. No explanation included of the rationale for the decisions over the nominations or the awards from BAFTA themselves. No positive suggestions of how they might be changed. Not even (and it’s not a line of criticism I like) pointing out of the hypocrisy in that he himself accepted an award, and is White, It’s a lot of rhetoric, and grandstanding waffle.

    And this seems to be par for the course for BBC journalism these days.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51355206

    I hate the way that more and more BBC "News" articles are just Twitter dumps.

    Twitter is not news and its not representative.
    Indeed. What forum does the BBC engage with to drive content that’s informed by opinion outside of Twitter, for example? Does it scrape the Daily Mail comments, for example, in a similar manner? Or does it review a sample of who’s written into local newspapers around the UK to determine what the balance of public opinion might be?

    Of course, we know the answer: it’s much easier for BBC online journalists to churn out content inside an hour or two based on Twitter accounts they already follow, and have sympathy with.

    It might be easier, but it reinforces the bubble and pisses off people outside it.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,979
    edited February 2020

    Here are the committee for BAFTA both for film and television:

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/television-committee

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/film-committee

    They both have BAME representation, including Noel Clarke who wrote Kidulthood, and the television one is overwhelmingly female.

    Do we think (just possibly) that rather than being all ghastly racists there is something else going on? Like, this year the best nominees won??

    It's an argument I agree with but not one you can ever win (so I don't bother anymore).

    There are valid reasons for encouraging people but it does risk lesser quality content being promoted over better items.
  • Options

    Here are the committee for BAFTA both for film and television:

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/television-committee

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/film-committee

    They both have BAME representation, including Noel Clarke who wrote Kidulthood, and the television one is overwhelmingly female.

    Do we think (just possibly) that rather than being all ghastly racists there is something else going on? Like, this year the best nominees won??

    Ironically your man did get closer to the issue when saying I’m ashamed to say that I’m part of the problem, because I’ve not ensured that the sets I’ve worked on are inclusive. If there are no Black directors or Asian leading actresses then it is leaving it too late to try and fix it at the awards ceremonies.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.

    It was even worse than that - the unions had heard from their local contacts that things weren't going too well in Wisconsin, and were organising a GOTV operation to shore up the Dem vote. Hillary's central campaign stopped them from doing it.
    Turned the bus round to Iowa which she had no chance in.

    Hilary's Campaign staff were seemingly obsessed with proving that Obama had won in the 'wrong' way. They were obsessed with projecting strength, thus the trips to Arizona and the like. I read the strength and assumed Clinton was a lock so did not green out my position.

    So furious with them.
    In an alternative universe, Hillary wasn't so stupid and we didn't get Trump and Margaret Beckett didn't vote for Corbyn to go on the ballot, so the alternative Labour leader properly backed staying in the EU and we didn't Brexit.
    Political chaos theory in practise.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
    Yes. Flu is underestimated. It kills the old and weak. Still.

    Also we’ve got lazy in saying a bad cold is flu. They are quite different.
    My bad. I may have exaggerated the stats. I did google it when I was ill with... weird Asian flu. Influenza is nasty but it seems to range from about 3% mortality to 0.03%, tho the severe outbreaks (eg 1918) are at the much higher end.
    Imagine if 1918 happened every year.

    That could be the future with Mexicanlagervirus.
    One of the characteristics of the Spanish Flu of 1918 was that it wasn't just the old and infirm who succumbed. There was an unusually high mortality of the previously fit and well. There was ne excellent docu-drama on it last year, to be repeated shortly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0blmn5l/clips
    I shall look forward to that. One of the Spanish flu issues, AIUI, is that populations of NW & Mid Europe had been weakened by the privations of wartime.
    Didn't apply to Spain and Portugal, of course.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Here are the committee for BAFTA both for film and television:

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/television-committee

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/film-committee

    They both have BAME representation, including Noel Clarke who wrote Kidulthood, and the television one is overwhelmingly female.

    Do we think (just possibly) that rather than being all ghastly racists there is something else going on? Like, this year the best nominees won??

    It's an argument I agree with but not one you can ever win (so I don't bother anymore).

    There are valid reasons for encouraging people but it does risk lesser quality content being promoted over better items.
    There is a problem: drama and drama schools are far less common in inner city areas and places like RADA probably feel to applicants as “raah” as they sound. Also, I expect many American studios in Hollywood *like* their British actors English, posh and public school. By the same token, good diction and articulation - whilst mischaracterised as posh and elitist - is important for getting roles in Shakespearean plays and films where articulate, clean English is prized, and there’s rarely an excuse for laziness in pronunciation.

    However, rather than talk about any of that some Hollywood actors like to collect their award and throw around accusations of racism at others. It really pisses me off.

    Quite aside from the sheer nerve, hypocrisy and pomposity it ends up fuelling and reinforcing racial divisions, on both side, rather than breaking them down, which is unhealthy at best for the rest of us and downright dangerous at worst.
  • Options

    Here are the committee for BAFTA both for film and television:

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/television-committee

    http://www.bafta.org/about/key-personnel/film-committee

    They both have BAME representation, including Noel Clarke who wrote Kidulthood, and the television one is overwhelmingly female.

    Do we think (just possibly) that rather than being all ghastly racists there is something else going on? Like, this year the best nominees won??

    Ironically your man did get closer to the issue when saying I’m ashamed to say that I’m part of the problem, because I’ve not ensured that the sets I’ve worked on are inclusive. If there are no Black directors or Asian leading actresses then it is leaving it too late to try and fix it at the awards ceremonies.
    Even that is too late. How are such actresses or directors trained up? And, would such training up be genuinely colour-blind or would they be patronisingly confined to films like urban ghetto ones or BAME history ones?

    If race is to become irrelevant in awards then we need to get past cultural appropriation and all that nonsense and just train up very good directors, actors and actresses who are able to put themselves to and perform in any role.

    That means being so good that they make people forget what colour or race they are at all in their performances, which matters for front stage nominees, and doesn’t matter at all for back stage ones.
  • Options
    Endillion said:

    Alistair said:

    She chose to spend money advertising in California while not spending any more advertising in Wisconsin.
    She chose to do repeated visits in the final weeks to California while never visiting Wisconsin.

    As you said only an idiot would do that. She did that.

    It was even worse than that - the unions had heard from their local contacts that things weren't going too well in Wisconsin, and were organising a GOTV operation to shore up the Dem vote. Hillary's central campaign stopped them from doing it.
    Turned the bus round to Iowa which she had no chance in.

    Hilary's Campaign staff were seemingly obsessed with proving that Obama had won in the 'wrong' way. They were obsessed with projecting strength, thus the trips to Arizona and the like. I read the strength and assumed Clinton was a lock so did not green out my position.

    So furious with them.
    The irony being that their strategy worked on you, but not enough actual voters to justify it.
    The strategy worked wrong way around though. The strategy convinced him that she was a guaranteed win when she should have known she wasn't. The problem is you normally don't want your voters to think you've already won because you want your voters to turn out.

    She actively suppressed her own GOTV then was horrified that she lost. Its the worst political strategy I've ever seen.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Worrying story involving an Air Canada plane developing in Madrid ...
    https://twitter.com/matthewbennett/status/1224344633796329474

    Landing gear "fell off"...circling to dump fuel.

    Edit: burn, not dump.

    Over to PPrune we go.
    Its down! Safe and sound looks like
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    FPT for stocky

    Quite a few minor ones but massive brief juddering fever was the first - spasming so hard I couldn’t hold a phone - and also nearly fainting.

    Yet now I feel like I am clearly recovering. But the docs still don’t know what it is and I guess they are being super cautious. In case it if corona

    I have already given it to my wife and her mum and her best friend so they have a point about contagion

    It’s a fascinating insight into what a bad virus might really do. Coronavirus is relatively benign. A death rate of 2%. Ordinary flu is probably worse.

    But imagine if avian flu did take off and become humanly contagious. A death rate of 60%????

    We are one viral mutation away from societal breakdown

    You think >2% of people who catch flu die?
    Yes. Flu is underestimated. It kills the old and weak. Still.

    Also we’ve got lazy in saying a bad cold is flu. They are quite different.
    My bad. I may have exaggerated the stats. I did google it when I was ill with... weird Asian flu. Influenza is nasty but it seems to range from about 3% mortality to 0.03%, tho the severe outbreaks (eg 1918) are at the much higher end.
    Imagine if 1918 happened every year.

    That could be the future with Mexicanlagervirus.
    One of the characteristics of the Spanish Flu of 1918 was that it wasn't just the old and infirm who succumbed. There was an unusually high mortality of the previously fit and well. There was ne excellent docu-drama on it last year, to be repeated shortly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0blmn5l/clips
    I shall look forward to that. One of the Spanish flu issues, AIUI, is that populations of NW & Mid Europe had been weakened by the privations of wartime.
    Didn't apply to Spain and Portugal, of course.
    The "Spanish" bit is a misnomer - there's no obvious linkage with Spain. But it's clear that WWI had a significant impact on both the severity and spread of the disease.

    The link below has some good discussions of Spanish flu, and pandemics more generally (if you filter out the insurance-specific considerations).
    https://media.swissre.com/documents/pandemic_influenza_a_21st_century_model_en.pdf
  • Options
    Does anyone know what time the Iowa results are expected to start coming through?

    Also does anyone have a good link to follow the results, video or text is good.

    Thanks in advance
This discussion has been closed.