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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With three hours to go before the Iowa caucuses Betfair punter

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With three hours to go before the Iowa caucuses Betfair punters make Bernie a 62% chance

The latest weather for Des Moines has it down going down to minus 6 tonight which could be a big disincentive to those Democratic supporters who were considering taking part in the caucuses. In past elections something like 26% of Iowans have participated which makes this a massive test for the pollsters. Will those who said they’d participate in these events which can lat two hours actually do so.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    First like Bernie?
  • Options
    Boo.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    Bernie is too short.

    Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

  • Options

    Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

    Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Bernie is too short.

    Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

    Klobucher is 1.01 on BF
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2020

    Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

    Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.
    Thanks what about the other questions?

    Are they campaigning on constitutional change demanding a border poll while ignoring other issues, like the SNP? Or are they campaigning on more mundane domestic matters?
  • Options

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    To a degree but he was a member of the Corbyn cabinet which allowed the anti semitism problem to remain unresolved

    Indeed it will be interesting to hear the comments from the ECHR report, not only on the issues of anti semitism in the labour party, but who if anyone they single out as having failed to address the issue

    Lisa Nandy is labour's safer bet and could be more of a problem to the conservatives
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    rcs1000 said:

    Bernie is too short.

    Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

    Klobucher is 1.01 on BF
    Hmmm: maybe you bet on her by simply selling Bernie at 1.62
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768
    PT:
    rcs1000 said:

    Paoli said:


    One difficulty with being a "human rights lawyer" is Keir Starmer has a long history of arguing for early release of prisoners and representing terrorists. For example, In 2007, he represented Paul Stellato in the House of Lords, arguing Stellato should be released on licence. When eventually released, Stellato tried to buy hand grenades on the dark web and had to go bback inside. There are lots of other examples. Labour's new leader could be placed in an interesting position over the announcement that terrorist prisoners won't now be eligible for automatic early release.

    Surely the "taxicab" principle applies.
    Sure, but I don't think Johnson and Cummings would let that get in the way of a good smear.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    speedy2 said:

    Results so far with non Iowa satellite caucus results included mostly from a Florida nurcing home:

    Klobuchar 50 votes
    Buttigieg 41
    Biden 33
    Bernie 31
    Warren 20
    Yang 3
    Steyer 2

    The only pattern emerging is that non-retirees like Bernie very much, retirees hate Bernie very much, but the polls already told us that.

    Actually, I think the poll tells us a couple of things:

    1. Bernie has organised the Unions well. If this was heavily-Unionised Nevada, he'd be killing it.

    2. Klobuchar is getting a bit more traction than you might expect.

    3. Biden and Warren are not doing that great.

    4. Yang and Steyer aren't going to be the Democratic nominee.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Bernie is too short.

    Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

    Klobucher is 1.01 on BF
    Hmmm: maybe you bet on her by simply selling Bernie at 1.62
    The last price matched was 95
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited February 2020

    Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

    Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.
    Thanks what about the other questions?

    Are they campaigning on constitutional change demanding a border poll while ignoring other issues, like the SNP? Or are they campaigning on more mundane domestic matters?
    Sinn Féin will work for Irish Unity

    The only people not talking about Irish Unity are the government. The institutions in the north are back up and running, we need a national forum, a citizens Assembly to have the discussion and we need to start the planning for the Unity referendum.

    Sinn Féin will:

    Seek the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

    Publish a White Paper on Irish Unity.

    Establish a Joint Oireachtas Committee on Irish Unity.

    Secure a referendum, north and south, on Irish Unity.

    But they have policies on other things.

    https://www.sinnfein.ie/policies
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Bernie is too short.

    Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

    NYT, polling average has Biden & Sanders on 22, Buttigieg 18, Warren, 15.

    So yeh, could go anyway and the latter are buys.
  • Options
    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    So far only 180 people have voted, almost all of them not in Iowa.
    Still a long way to go till around 100-150k vote.

    The whole caucus process could take another 9 hours.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?
    According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

    Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.
  • Options
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    edited February 2020
    speedy2 said:

    So far only 180 people have voted, almost all of them not in Iowa.
    Still a long way to go till around 100-150k vote.

    The whole caucus process could take another 9 hours.

    Yeah, but they're a completely representative sample :smile:

    More seriously: they might influence later votes. If Klobuchar is seen to be doing well, then it will potentially influence voters making their second choice
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768
    DavidL said:


    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/sep/21/keir-starmer-director-public-prosecutions

    "My background is not typical of a lawyer or a DPP," he says. "My dad was a toolmaker before he retired, so he worked in a factory all his life. My mum was a nurse, and she's been physically disabled for years."

    Of course caring about his upbringing is bollocks. Johnson went to Eton for fucks sake.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?
    According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

    Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.
    Not saying it did and I have no criticism of him for making the most of his opportunities. It’s just that you seemed to be laying on the ordinariness of his background a bit thick, that’s all. Not quite as privileged as Corbyn and massively more successful academically would be fair.
  • Options

    Blimey. This is not looking good...

    twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1224456028663599107/photo/1

    I think this is very irresponsible of the Daily Mail. We shouldn't be telling potential terrorists how many people are likely overseeing them.
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    speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    rcs1000 said:

    speedy2 said:

    Results so far with non Iowa satellite caucus results included mostly from a Florida nurcing home:

    Klobuchar 50 votes
    Buttigieg 41
    Biden 33
    Bernie 31
    Warren 20
    Yang 3
    Steyer 2

    The only pattern emerging is that non-retirees like Bernie very much, retirees hate Bernie very much, but the polls already told us that.

    Actually, I think the poll tells us a couple of things:

    1. Bernie has organised the Unions well. If this was heavily-Unionised Nevada, he'd be killing it.

    2. Klobuchar is getting a bit more traction than you might expect.

    3. Biden and Warren are not doing that great.

    4. Yang and Steyer aren't going to be the Democratic nominee.
    It's very very early, we are talking that only 0.1% of the expected vote is in and most of it counted is from people outside of Iowa.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,724
    @eadric , @TheScreamingEagles

    I was a bit puzzled by @eadrics comments on the previous page. Germany after 1945 was split into two jurisdictions (the GDR and the DDR) by the demands of a government outside the country. On unification one of them was reabsorbed into the other and the border ceased to exist

    Similarly after 192blah Ireland was split into two jurisdictions (NI and SI, later the Irish Free State and so on) by the demands of a government outside the country. Should they unwisely (imho) vote for unification, one will be absorbed into the other and the border cease to exist
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?
    According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

    Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.

    I did my 11+ a year earlier than Starmer and went to a voluntary aided state grammar school. Three years later its governors were given the choice of taking the school comprehensive or independent. They chose the former. Looks like Starmer’s chose the latter.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    speedy2 said:

    So far only 180 people have voted, almost all of them not in Iowa.
    Still a long way to go till around 100-150k vote.

    The whole caucus process could take another 9 hours.

    You’re not really selling this.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2020

    Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

    Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.
    Thanks what about the other questions?

    Are they campaigning on constitutional change demanding a border poll while ignoring other issues, like the SNP? Or are they campaigning on more mundane domestic matters?
    Sinn Féin will work for Irish Unity

    The only people not talking about Irish Unity are the government. The institutions in the north are back up and running, we need a national forum, a citizens Assembly to have the discussion and we need to start the planning for the Unity referendum.

    Sinn Féin will:

    Seek the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

    Publish a White Paper on Irish Unity.

    Establish a Joint Oireachtas Committee on Irish Unity.

    Secure a referendum, north and south, on Irish Unity.

    But they have policies on other things.

    https://www.sinnfein.ie/policies
    Their third policy on that link, so clearly giving it high priority even if its not as high as the SNP.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    edited February 2020
    Yes and no.

    You see, the one group of states where that's not true is... the rust belt.

    Unemployment is rising in Pennsylvania, Michigan Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin, while it's heading ever lower in most of the rest of the country.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768
    Rush Limbaugh reveals advanced lung cancer diagnosis live on radio show

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51365762
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2020
    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?
    According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

    Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.
    Not saying it did and I have no criticism of him for making the most of his opportunities. It’s just that you seemed to be laying on the ordinariness of his background a bit thick, that’s all. Not quite as privileged as Corbyn and massively more successful academically would be fair.
    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:
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    rcs1000 said:

    Yes and no.

    You see, the one group of states where that's not true is... the rust belt.

    Unemployment is rising in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, while it's heading ever lower in most of the rest of the country.
    Come on Dems! You screwed up 4 years ago ignoring these States, for the love of everything decent concentrate there now.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    CatMan said:

    Rush Limbaugh reveals advanced lung cancer diagnosis live on radio show

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51365762

    I'm no fan, but poor bastard.
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    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    So he's not all bad then. Next you'll be telling us he likes Die Hard as a Christmas Movie.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
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    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Some distant familial connection? Could Starmer survive that?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,406
    We need prisons in sub-saharan Africa for these people. Real redemption sometimes requires a big life change.
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    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Keep Calmer and Vote Starmer!
  • Options
    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    edited February 2020


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

    Well, it is the biggest city - and it has Underground trains!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    I think the most important thing we need to know about him is his opinion of the new Star Wars trilogy.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2020
    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Well I wouldn't. But a) that is the law, b) apparently May didn't see these people as being life long ideologues and c) the government have been far too concerned about the backlash from certain sections of the media (see how much incoming Boris got after London Bridge).

    Hopefully they get their act together and make changes.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Some distant familial connection? Could Starmer survive that?
    Probably... but could @Charles?!
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    The government does get to set the law - and sentencing guidelines and early release policies etc

    A start would be ensuring nobody gets early release without the parole board saying they are safe. For any crime not just terrorism.

    Then some method of holding the parole board to account for recidivism for those they've deemed safe would be a good second step.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    rcs1000 said:

    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

    Don’t believe everything you read Robert. Unless it’s on PB of course.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    But these guys are getting out half way through.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited February 2020


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
  • Options
    CatMan said:


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    I think the most important thing we need to know about him is his opinion of the new Star Wars trilogy.
    I imagine given his politics he is extremely in-favour of the strong female lead and the amount of diversity on show, and thus wouldn't dare to suggest that the stories were rather shit.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,599

    rcs1000 said:

    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

    Well, it is the biggest city - and it has Underground trains!
    The Clockwork Orange. They made a film about it, I believe.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    CatMan said:

    DavidL said:


    The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/sep/21/keir-starmer-director-public-prosecutions

    "My background is not typical of a lawyer or a DPP," he says. "My dad was a toolmaker before he retired, so he worked in a factory all his life. My mum was a nurse, and she's been physically disabled for years."

    Of course caring about his upbringing is bollocks. Johnson went to Eton for fucks sake.
    But Boris isn't running to lead a socialist party that wants to wage class war on the rich...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    The government does get to set the law - and sentencing guidelines and early release policies etc

    A start would be ensuring nobody gets early release without the parole board saying they are safe. For any crime not just terrorism.

    Then some method of holding the parole board to account for recidivism for those they've deemed safe would be a good second step.
    Sure, and you can change the law. But that won't affect the sentences of people set in the past.
  • Options
    DavidL said:


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.
    Really?

    I was planning on doing a thread comparing Boris Johnson to Daniel Cleaver and Sir Keir as Mark D'Arcy.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,599


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    The government does get to set the law - and sentencing guidelines and early release policies etc

    A start would be ensuring nobody gets early release without the parole board saying they are safe. For any crime not just terrorism.

    Then some method of holding the parole board to account for recidivism for those they've deemed safe would be a good second step.
    I assumed that was how it worked already.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658

    DavidL said:


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.
    Really?

    I was planning on doing a thread comparing Boris Johnson to Daniel Cleaver and Sir Keir as Mark D'Arcy.
    Who's playing Bridget in that thread?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion
    But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    edited February 2020

    isam said:

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.
    And why do you think they are let out early?

    From this morning:-

    “ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

    We are not honest with the public about this.

    We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

    But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

    We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

    The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    When will we have Iowa results ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    But these guys are getting out half way through.
    If someone needs close surveillance on release, it does raise the question of why they're being released. Surely the parole board should only recommend people for release who they think are unlikely to reoffend.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion
    But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?
    Obviously not!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    edited February 2020

    DavidL said:


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....
    D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.
    Really?

    I was planning on doing a thread comparing Boris Johnson to Daniel Cleaver and Sir Keir as Mark D'Arcy.
    Apparently Fielding has admitted this. Never going to find the link. Actually easy https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7878643/amp/Is-Labour-leadership-hopeful-Keir-Starmer-real-Mark-Darcy.html
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
  • Options
    I have had a nibble on Klobucher and Warren for Iowa.

    Just a bit of fun, beer money only. DYOR.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

    There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.
    Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion
    But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?
    Plus the people who decide if they are fit for release are not the judges but the parole board.

    Once they've been sentenced, that kinda ends the role of the judge.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658
    edited February 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.
    And why do you think they are let out early?

    From this morning:-

    “ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

    We are not honest with the public about this.

    We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

    But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

    We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

    The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?
    You could take it one stage further: Are the outraged Daily Mail and Daily Express readers prepared to pay a bit more in tax to fund the extra prison places?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.
    And why do you think they are let out early?

    From this morning:-

    “ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

    We are not honest with the public about this.

    We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

    But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

    We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

    The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?
    As always, @Cyclefree nails it.
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
    It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

    Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
    It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

    Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.
    And very humble to boot.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
    Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,265
    edited February 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

    Well, it is the biggest city - and it has Underground trains!
    The Clockwork Orange. They made a film about it, I believe.
    "There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Dom, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our Raab-oodocks what to do with the evening.

    "The Kensington Milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus GM Soya or Corn Syrup or Chlorinated Chicken, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old No-deal Brexit."
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
    Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.
    Yes and the longer they spend in Belmarsh...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592
    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Perhaps ask the party that has headed the Home Office for the last decade.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658

    rcs1000 said:

    From USA Today:

    Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

    On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.


    Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

    Well, it is the biggest city - and it has Underground trains!
    The Clockwork Orange. They made a film about it, I believe.
    "There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Dom, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our Raab-oodocks what to do with the evening.

    "The Kensington Milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus GM Soya or Corn Syrup or Chlorinated Chicken, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old No-deal Brexit."
    :lol:
  • Options
    According to CNN there is an IOWA caucus being held in Scotland tonight
  • Options


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
    It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

    Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.
    And very humble to boot.
    Indeed, apparently I have a way with words which sticks in the minds of people.

    Not many people open a report with 'Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
    Clearly they thought that he was a threat and they were right. But do you really want to live in a country where you can be locked up indefinitely because someone in authority has deemed you a threat?
  • Options
    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
    Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.
    Maybe we could try converting them to Zen Buddhism?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,658


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
    It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

    Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.
    And very humble to boot.
    Indeed, apparently I have a way with words which sticks in the minds of people.

    Not many people open a report with 'Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'
    Bugger - you've just made me Google that to check the spelling...

    What's Mrs P going to think when she does the weekly review of my search history? 😱
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,406
    We always come back to prisons costing too much. That's why I strongly feel that prisons for the worst, violent crimes should be moved to Africa. The remainder should be built in the UK's forgotten towns, and work for prisoners should be integral. Paid minimum wage, charged for board and lodging, the rest to spend or save for release.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.
    And why do you think they are let out early?

    From this morning:-

    “ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

    We are not honest with the public about this.

    We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

    But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

    We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

    The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?
    As always, @Cyclefree nails it.
    Up to a point. With the current regime we already lock up more for longer than any other Western European country. Do we really want to double this?
  • Options
    marke0903 said:

    According to CNN there is an IOWA caucus being held in Scotland tonight

    There are also caucus' in the Caucasus.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Perhaps ask the party that has headed the Home Office for the last decade.
    Point of pedantry, it is the Justice Department that runs the prisons.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

    Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

    FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

    Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

    Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?
    Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

    He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.
    Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?
    Clearly they thought that he was a threat and they were right. But do you really want to live in a country where you can be locked up indefinitely because someone in authority has deemed you a threat?
    No, but if this fellow was let out early whilst being deemed dangerous enough to require such surveillance, something’s not right.

    Was he let out early?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    We need prisons in sub-saharan Africa for these people. Real redemption sometimes requires a big life change.

    I don't think we have any Empire left there for a penal colony, though we do have a few South Atlantic islands that might be suitable.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited February 2020


    Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

    The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard? :wink:

    Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.
    Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together. :wink:
    I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

    I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

    *Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.
    I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...
    When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

    I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

    I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.
    I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?
    It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

    Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.
    And very humble to boot.
    Indeed, apparently I have a way with words which sticks in the minds of people.

    Not many people open a report with 'Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'
    Bugger - you've just made me Google that to check the spelling...

    What's Mrs P going to think when she does the weekly review of my search history? 😱
    Blame PB, I used a similar line in a PB thread last year.

    ‘Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt’ is a maxim that has served me well in life, I might revise that maxim to ‘Never trust anybody who says a no deal Brexit will be fine.’ I suspect many MPs are also guided by the latter maxim.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/06/30/if-boris-johnson-tries-to-deliver-on-his-promise-of-a-no-deal-brexit-on-halloween-then-a-vote-of-no-confidence-seems-inevitable/
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2020
    Totally O/T....Why I am a big fan of ice hockey....spot of local rivalry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmVD_YrK-Y
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