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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ethics man. God, mammon and investing

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ethics man. God, mammon and investing

“I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off,” St John’s College principal bursar Adrew Parker tells students demanding divestment from oil companies. https://t.co/NMnLXRPrBf

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Taxing negative externalities? Hmmm...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    rcs1000 said:

    Taxing negative externalities? Hmmm...

    No-one's ever thought of that before!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?
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    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.
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    A better strategy than divestment would be to buy stocks in bad companies and bleed them dry for short-term profit. Pay excessive dividends, gut R&D, mismanage them so the good people leave. However this is indistinguishable from standard British management.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    Can you please not tell anyone.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    That poll, though, is not enough.

    Klobuchar lacks the Nevada organisation of Warren or Buttigieg.

    So, coming third in New Hampshire doesn't really propel her into the first tier of candidates, as she's still trailing Buttigieg and doesn't have any likely wins coming up.

    Now, if she were to beat Buttigieg, now... that would be something.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    So... there's the big 538 poll on how people reacted to the Democratic debate.

    And it's broadly good news for Pete Buttigieg. He had the biggest increase in favourability; the biggest increase in "likely to beat Trump"; and the biggest increase in "would consider voting for this candidate".

    Klobuchar also showed progress. If she'd had her surge just a few weeks earlier, it might all be different.

    Who did badly?

    Well, um, that would be Joe Biden.

    See: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/democratic-debate-first-february-poll/
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    rcs1000 said:

    That poll, though, is not enough.

    Klobuchar lacks the Nevada organisation of Warren or Buttigieg.

    So, coming third in New Hampshire doesn't really propel her into the first tier of candidates, as she's still trailing Buttigieg and doesn't have any likely wins coming up.

    Now, if she were to beat Buttigieg, now... that would be something.
    Yup, agree. She needs to beat Buttigieg or at least run him very close, otherwise she deflates.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    rcs1000 said:

    That poll, though, is not enough.

    Klobuchar lacks the Nevada organisation of Warren or Buttigieg.

    So, coming third in New Hampshire doesn't really propel her into the first tier of candidates, as she's still trailing Buttigieg and doesn't have any likely wins coming up.

    Now, if she were to beat Buttigieg, now... that would be something.
    Yup, agree. She needs to beat Buttigieg or at least run him very close, otherwise she deflates.
    If she runs him close, but doesn't beat him, then the only winner is Bloomberg.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Sandpit said:

    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?

    Who gets to play Theresa May has still not been cast.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?

    That would have been a pretty good parliament if they hadn't set up a ticking time bomb where bad things happened unless parliament took action. Historically governments that can't do much tend to be the best governments.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Sandpit said:

    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?

    That would have been a pretty good parliament if they hadn't set up a ticking time bomb where bad things happened unless parliament took action. Historically governments that can't do much tend to be the best governments.
    Ha, you might have a point there. Wasn't it Belgium that had no government for more than a year?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Great piece Alastair
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    I was thinking more that his strategy was to make sure the snowflakes didn’t melt.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    ydoethur said:

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    I was thinking more that his strategy was to make sure the snowflakes didn’t melt.
    I hate us using the snowflake put-down
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    Why is he a wanker? Which of turning off the heating, and selling BP, reduces CO2? For that matter which damages nasty capitalist BP more effectively?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    I was thinking more that his strategy was to make sure the snowflakes didn’t melt.
    I hate us using the snowflake put-down
    You really don’t have any sense for irony or sarcasm, do you?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    That poll, though, is not enough.

    Klobuchar lacks the Nevada organisation of Warren or Buttigieg.

    So, coming third in New Hampshire doesn't really propel her into the first tier of candidates, as she's still trailing Buttigieg and doesn't have any likely wins coming up.

    Now, if she were to beat Buttigieg, now... that would be something.
    Yup, agree. She needs to beat Buttigieg or at least run him very close, otherwise she deflates.
    If she runs him close, but doesn't beat him, then the only winner is Bloomberg.
    Or possibly Warren, who is still hanging in there as a possible non-Sanders candidate. Warren can inherit support if Sanders implodes or might even attract support from moderates who want to stop Sanders. Bloomberg is carrying an awful lot of hopes but has not been tested. Look what is happening to Biden, or happened to Booker or Harris: great on paper but turned out to be paper tigers.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    On the contrary, it is manifestly required of his subordinates.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    IshmaelZ said:

    That bursar dude is a wanker but yes, divestment is a subsidy for evil people.

    Why is he a wanker? Which of turning off the heating, and selling BP, reduces CO2? For that matter which damages nasty capitalist BP more effectively?
    Like many university administrators, he displays a general contempt for his customers.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    Nice article. This had of course been done before, with the taxes on blank recording media in various places due to one use being piracy. The recording/film lobby have shown governments can be persuaded.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I sit on the investment committee of a medically focused university with a student body that only slight to the right of SOAS.

    As you can imagine this comes up every year when there is a new student intake

    The conflict is between our task to manage the endowment as effectively as possible (to build resources which we then use to subsidise the School’s charitable mission) vs investing in a way which is counter to our mission

    Where we currently are is no tobacco or defence. The most recent step was to sell divest from coal (respiratory). I fight hard against pulling out of natural resources entirely because they are such an important component of the U.K. market (and even more on dividends which are important for cash flow even though we operate on an absolute TSR basis)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    A better strategy than divestment would be to buy stocks in bad companies and bleed them dry for short-term profit. Pay excessive dividends, gut R&D, mismanage them so the good people leave. However this is indistinguishable from standard British management.

    That would require control of the companies, which is beyond the means of most investors.
    Divestment is a more sensible strategy, both for risk mitigation, and because it tends, at the margin, to increase the cost of capital for those companies,
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Charles said:

    I sit on the investment committee of a medically focused university with a student body that only slight to the right of SOAS.

    As you can imagine this comes up every year when there is a new student intake

    The conflict is between our task to manage the endowment as effectively as possible (to build resources which we then use to subsidise the School’s charitable mission) vs investing in a way which is counter to our mission

    Where we currently are is no tobacco or defence. The most recent step was to sell divest from coal (respiratory). I fight hard against pulling out of natural resources entirely because they are such an important component of the U.K. market (and even more on dividends which are important for cash flow even though we operate on an absolute TSR basis)

    Evidently you are not a wanker, Charles. :smile:
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?

    That would have been a pretty good parliament if they hadn't set up a ticking time bomb where bad things happened unless parliament took action. Historically governments that can't do much tend to be the best governments.
    Ha, you might have a point there. Wasn't it Belgium that had no government for more than a year?
    Belgium has seven layers of government and an asymmetrical devolutionary settlement where some areas of competence diverge on linguistic grounds and others on geographic. The absence of the top federal layer doesn't really impede the political program of the country even for an extended period.
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Starmer harm alarm:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51432440

    If his defence to allegedly mucking about with his own organisation's data is that he was indulging in unsanctioned pen testing, then this could get quite messy for him.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Italy has a long history with commercialising piss. The pharmaceutical company Serono started out purifying nuns’ urine to make a fertility drug.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    On the contrary, it is manifestly required of his subordinates.
    Which is why I remain surprised that Gove is still around.
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    Mr. Endillion, they spell his name both correctly and incorrectly in that article.

    Also, good morning, everyone.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    On the contrary, it is manifestly required of his subordinates.
    Which is why I remain surprised that Gove is still around.
    I think he has performed the necessary acts of obeisance.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    On the contrary, it is manifestly required of his subordinates.
    Which is why I remain surprised that Gove is still around.
    I think he has performed the necessary acts of obeisance.
    *winces at a bad mental image that conjured*
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    You’re thinking of Christ Church.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    On the contrary, it is manifestly required of his subordinates.
    Which is why I remain surprised that Gove is still around.
    I think he has performed the necessary acts of obeisance.
    *winces at a bad mental image that conjured*
    Apologies.
    It was entirely intentional.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Looks grim for Biden in NH:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/08/joe-biden-new-hampshire-112545
    But the damage had already been done with voters like Tricia Owens, a 59-year-old therapist from southern New Hampshire and Biden donor, who said she was so disappointed that she won’t volunteer for him “for a whole bunch of phone-banking” she had signed up for over the coming days.
    “I could not stop thinking about what he said about how he wouldn’t do well in New Hampshire,” she said, noting many New Hampshire voters are undecided “and then he said something stupid like that? I just thought it was so disrespectful to us in New Hampshire.”...
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020
    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    I have to say, I don’t like university administrators, or bean counters, er, bursars in general. In my experience they are utter Tristram Hunts.

    But I can’t fault his logic here or the way he exposes the hypocrisy of the campaigners. They’re quite happy to demand empty gestures but not actually make any personal sacrifices. And bearing in mind that St John’s college is four centuries old and built before central heating at a time when the climate was far harsher than now (and, for the matter of that, clothes were far less good at conserving heat) their reaction looks not only hypocritical but hysterical, in all senses of that word.

    Extinction Rebellion are third rate virtue signalling hypocrites. What’s even worse is the nauseating way they try to justify themselves - see here for a particularly ridiculous example (‘It’s not our fault we’re all hypocrites, when we’ve changed the system we’ll be nice’). They claim to care about the planet but not only take no steps to preserve it but actively do further damage.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited February 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    Nicely phrased. But it is difficult to give up using hydrocarbon transport when some dimwitted Merchant Banker (rhyming slang) has glued themselves to the electric train.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited February 2020

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited February 2020

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    It is obvious he does not actively manage the portfolio - but equally clear that he has considerable influence in setting investment priorities.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    On one occasion Newent Market Hall, a Tudor listed building, had to have the tiles replaced because they were so old and damaged.

    They were carefully manufactured at vast expense to exactly match the originals.

    English Heritage, unbelievably, then said they had not kept to the terms of consent because the tiles looked too fresh and new - in other words, they had not been weathered.

    Which was sort of the fucking point....
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    And I am telling you that a skill in googling webpages may not be leading you to the truth of the matter.

    Yet again, if you have money to invest, do you go a neurologist for advice ?
  • Options
    We need more snowflakes, preferably at the poles to reflect sunlight.
    If 'Snowflakes' can help in that process, so be it.
  • Options
    Mr. Doethur, wishing to be seen to be virtuous without sacrifice is a bit like wanting to be fitter and stronger without exercising.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Mr. Doethur, wishing to be seen to be virtuous without sacrifice is a bit like wanting to be fitter and stronger without exercising.

    Oooh, I’m interested. What process do I follow for that?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    And I am telling you that a skill in googling webpages may not be leading you to the truth of the matter.

    Yet again, if you have money to invest, do you go a neurologist for advice ?
    They are his own words.
    Are you saying he’s claiming a responsibility he does not hold ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, wishing to be seen to be virtuous without sacrifice is a bit like wanting to be fitter and stronger without exercising.

    Oooh, I’m interested. What process do I follow for that?
    Patience. They’re working on that.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    Yes.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    es.

    It is obvious he does not actively manage the portfolio - but equally clear that he has considerable influence in setting investment priorities.

    As I said, he will be a member of a 10 or 12 person committee. If he had some financial expertise, he might be an influential voice on the Committee, but as he is neurologist, my guess is he isn't. He will however have a vote.

    So, the bursar said correctly he could not arrange disinvestment "at short notice".

    Statement of the bleeding obvious, really.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, wishing to be seen to be virtuous without sacrifice is a bit like wanting to be fitter and stronger without exercising.

    Oooh, I’m interested. What process do I follow for that?
    Patience. They’re working on that.
    I’m good at patience. Nobody lays out a game of Napoleon like me. But even I can’t see the link to being fitter and stronger.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    Yes.
    Then you will know that the one thing it is not is "relatively simple".
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    This is quite funny:

    ‘Extinction Rebellion say most volunteers are unpaid and those who give their lives for the cause should be able to claim ‘voluntary living expenses (VLR) to cover basic costs.’


    If they’ve ‘given their lives’ surely they won’t need living expenses?

    Certainly not the £150,000 a year they’re paying themselves.

    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gloucestershires-extinction-rebellion-godmother-gail-3423635
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    This is quite funny:

    ‘Extinction Rebellion say most volunteers are unpaid and those who give their lives for the cause should be able to claim ‘voluntary living expenses (VLR) to cover basic costs.’


    If they’ve ‘given their lives’ surely they won’t need living expenses?

    Certainly not the £150,000 a year they’re paying themselves.

    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gloucestershires-extinction-rebellion-godmother-gail-3423635

    Ah Voluntary living expenses is another word for wages!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...
    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    Yes.
    Then you will know that the one thing it is not is "relatively simple".
    As I said, for an institution of their means, it is relatively so.
    The fact they even have a heating system evidences that it’s not impossible, and no doubt they have long term plans for changing it.
    Had the bursar wanted to hold a reasonable discussion with his students, no doubt we’d know more.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    And I am telling you that a skill in googling webpages may not be leading you to the truth of the matter.

    Yet again, if you have money to invest, do you go a neurologist for advice ?
    They are his own words.
    Are you saying he’s claiming a responsibility he does not hold ?
    He holds the responsibility -- in the sense that if St John's lose lots of money in bad investments, he carries the can.

    In any College Committee, you need three sorts of people.

    Someone to do the work, someone to take the credit, and someone to carry the can.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    On one occasion Newent Market Hall, a Tudor listed building, had to have the tiles replaced because they were so old and damaged.

    They were carefully manufactured at vast expense to exactly match the originals.

    English Heritage, unbelievably, then said they had not kept to the terms of consent because the tiles looked too fresh and new - in other words, they had not been weathered.

    Which was sort of the fucking point....
    While I yield to no one in my disdain for the planning authorities, this is not quite as silly as it sounds.

    My other half is a bricklayer by trade and specialised in restoring heritage buildings. You don’t want new brickwork to look out of place next to the original. You can do remarkable things with soot and yoghurt, I’m told.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Doethur, wishing to be seen to be virtuous without sacrifice is a bit like wanting to be fitter and stronger without exercising.

    Oooh, I’m interested. What process do I follow for that?
    Patience. They’re working on that.
    I’m good at patience. Nobody lays out a game of Napoleon like me. But even I can’t see the link to being fitter and stronger.
    I might have expressed myself better.
    For now. you have to volunteer as a lab rat:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/a-pill-to-make-exercise-obsolete
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited February 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    It is normally extremely difficult to make even internal changes to grade 1 listed buildings.
    Hence ‘relatively’.
    I’m pretty sure that they didn’t have gas central heating before the buildings were listed...

    Of course he might have engaged in a reasonable discussion of these points rather than indulging in a rhetorical gesture.
    Have you ever tried to make changes to a listed building? I have.
    On one occasion Newent Market Hall, a Tudor listed building, had to have the tiles replaced because they were so old and damaged.

    They were carefully manufactured at vast expense to exactly match the originals.

    English Heritage, unbelievably, then said they had not kept to the terms of consent because the tiles looked too fresh and new - in other words, they had not been weathered.

    Which was sort of the fucking point....
    While I yield to no one in my disdain for the planning authorities, this is not quite as silly as it sounds.

    My other half is a bricklayer by trade and specialised in restoring heritage buildings. You don’t want new brickwork to look out of place next to the original. You can do remarkable things with soot and yoghurt, I’m told.
    It wasn’t next to any originals. It was the restoration of a whole roof to mint condition.

    As for the last sentence, the mind boggles somewhat...
  • Options
    Mr. Doethur, it's the same way you can win money at betting without risking any stakes.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    And I am telling you that a skill in googling webpages may not be leading you to the truth of the matter.

    Yet again, if you have money to invest, do you go a neurologist for advice ?
    They are his own words.
    Are you saying he’s claiming a responsibility he does not hold ?
    He holds the responsibility -- in the sense that if St John's lose lots of money in bad investments, he carries the can.

    In any College Committee, you need three sorts of people.

    Someone to do the work, someone to take the credit, and someone to carry the can.
    I took care to not to go into a detailed discussion of the bursar’s responsibilities (because it wasn’t really very relevant), all to no avail. Whether or not the bursar can act unilaterally, the college could act if it had the will. It evidently doesn’t.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Mr. Doethur, it's the same way you can win money at betting without risking any stakes.

    Becoming a bookmaker?
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    edited February 2020


    Nigelb said:

    es.

    It is obvious he does not actively manage the portfolio - but equally clear that he has considerable influence in setting investment priorities.

    As I said, he will be a member of a 10 or 12 person committee. If he had some financial expertise, he might be an influential voice on the Committee, but as he is neurologist, my guess is he isn't. He will however have a vote.

    So, the bursar said correctly he could not arrange disinvestment "at short notice".

    Statement of the bleeding obvious, really.
    I bet that Committee will only give the most basic guidance (risk appetite) to an investment bank as well. Nobody (even a collective committee) wants to be blamed if they buy (sets say ) Thomas Cook shares and then they go bust. Better be able to moan at investment banks.

    Good point made against the students though. Sacrifice something more direct to you than virtue signalling protesting against something that will not hurt you one way or another
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "I am not able to arrange any divestment at short notice. But I can arrange for the gas central heating in college to be switched off"

    It sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious.

    The Bursar cannot arrange disinvestment at short notice because he is just one member of a College Committee that takes such decisions. He probably won't even be a very important member of the Committee (after all, Professor Parker is a neurologist and has no expertise in financial matters like investment).

    As regards heating, Professor Parker is in sole control of the College's thermostat.

    Meeks as usual doesn't understand.

    A College's bursar is in charge of rather more mundane things like payroll, accounts and student finances. He does not direct the investment policy, and has at most a rather minor role in influencing it.

    So the Professor is just stating the facts.

    That would be the Home Bursar in this case.
    The Principal Bursar “holds the responsibility for the assets of the College, including its buildings and their contents, the investment portfolio that supports the College’s teaching and research activities, as well as HR responsibility for non-academic staff....”
    So, you seriously believe that the College bursar -- someone with expert training in neurology but not in finance -- has been put in sole charge of an investment portfolio of 551 million pounds.
    I am quoting from his list of responsibilities.

    And I am telling you that a skill in googling webpages may not be leading you to the truth of the matter.

    Yet again, if you have money to invest, do you go a neurologist for advice ?
    They are his own words.
    Are you saying he’s claiming a responsibility he does not hold ?
    He holds the responsibility -- in the sense that if St John's lose lots of money in bad investments, he carries the can.

    In any College Committee, you need three sorts of people.

    Someone to do the work, someone to take the credit, and someone to carry the can.
    I took care to not to go into a detailed discussion of the bursar’s responsibilities (because it wasn’t really very relevant), all to no avail. Whether or not the bursar can act unilaterally, the college could act if it had the will. It evidently doesn’t.
    Sorry about that. It’s an excellent article.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    "Do something" like what? Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? Fuck knows how you know whether it's antiquated or not, but fossil fuel burning systems burn fossil fuel. "Antiquated" is merely about 10% efficiency gains. "Save the planet, but only if it causes me not the slightest possible inconvenience or discomfort" isn't going to work, and the professor of neurology (who is possibly almost as intelligent and scientifically well-informed as you are) nails the point admirably.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Interesting story. The Bursar is behaving childishly. How dare anyone question his authority. Sometimes the power gained from managing someone else’s money goes to their heads.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    I sit on the investment committee of a medically focused university with a student body that only slight to the right of SOAS.

    As you can imagine this comes up every year when there is a new student intake

    The conflict is between our task to manage the endowment as effectively as possible (to build resources which we then use to subsidise the School’s charitable mission) vs investing in a way which is counter to our mission

    Where we currently are is no tobacco or defence. The most recent step was to sell divest from coal (respiratory). I fight hard against pulling out of natural resources entirely because they are such an important component of the U.K. market (and even more on dividends which are important for cash flow even though we operate on an absolute TSR basis)

    'Trump Digs Coal' was one of his slogans, he has wihdrawn from the Paris climate agreement, yet coal companies in the US are going bust and mines being shut down. Renewables are cheaper in many cases than fossil fuels.
    The direction of travel is clear, enlightened self interest will mean that fossil fuel companies will become worse investments over time.
    https://www.ft.com/content/2586fa10-e122-11e9-b112-9624ec9edc59
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90402331/its-now-cheaper-to-build-new-renewables-than-it-is-to-build-natural-gas-plants
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    ydoethur said:

    This is quite funny:

    ‘Extinction Rebellion say most volunteers are unpaid and those who give their lives for the cause should be able to claim ‘voluntary living expenses (VLR) to cover basic costs.’


    If they’ve ‘given their lives’ surely they won’t need living expenses?

    Certainly not the £150,000 a year they’re paying themselves.

    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gloucestershires-extinction-rebellion-godmother-gail-3423635

    Have a go at 300 times 50 again?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    edited February 2020
    Jonathan said:

    Interesting story. The Bursar is behaving childishly. How dare anyone question his authority. Sometimes the power gained from managing someone else’s money goes to their heads.

    But whose money is he managing? It's something that I've never really been able to work out when it comes to Oxbridge colleges.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    egg said:

    Theres no way he taxed urine. Really?

    I suppose the opposition said That’s just taking the piss. But when they taxed piss themselves it was hailed in the news sheets as a master stroke to get the empire booming. Rather like Boris mansion tax, and raid on our pensions.

    Not sure that I believe that Telegraph scoop but if Boris' backers don't realise by now that he has no principles whatsoever, then they should wake up fast. Extensive though Johnson's vocabulary may appear, it doesn't include the word loyalty.
    Boris might just be the person to begin shifting the tax burden onto wealth, on a Nixon in China basis. Income is becoming harder and harder to pin down (within any one jurisdiction), so it is the inevitable direction of travel.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    "Do something" like what? Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? Fuck knows how you know whether it's antiquated or not, but fossil fuel burning systems burn fossil fuel. "Antiquated" is merely about 10% efficiency gains. "Save the planet, but only if it causes me not the slightest possible inconvenience or discomfort" isn't going to work, and the professor of neurology (who is possibly almost as intelligent and scientifically well-informed as you are) nails the point admirably.
    I don't know the heating system either.
    Maybe it already has an energy supplier that uses renewables, maybe he's looked into ground source heat pumps and changed all the lighting to LEDs.
    Or maybe not.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    "Do something" like what? Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? Fuck knows how you know whether it's antiquated or not, but fossil fuel burning systems burn fossil fuel. "Antiquated" is merely about 10% efficiency gains. "Save the planet, but only if it causes me not the slightest possible inconvenience or discomfort" isn't going to work, and the professor of neurology (who is possibly almost as intelligent and scientifically well-informed as you are) nails the point admirably.
    The two students of St Johns who raised this matter are not compelled to live in College accommodation.

    They could choose to rent a house in Oxford in which the heating system was as exactly as they preferred. They would be taking responsibility.

    In fact, the Professor of Neurology is simply repeating that advice given by the excellent and sadly deceased Professor David MacKay

    https://www.withouthotair.com/download.html

    The two things we can do to combat climate change are take less flights to Hungary and to turn our thermostats down.

    "Turning the thermostat down is the single most effective energy- saving technology available to a typical person – every degree you turn it down will reduce your heating costs by 10%; and heating is likely to be the biggest form of energy consumption in most British buildings. Figure 16 shows data from my house."

    Of course, David MacKay was energy advisor to the Labour and Coalition Government's. He published his wonderful book with his own money and made it freely available.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is quite funny:

    ‘Extinction Rebellion say most volunteers are unpaid and those who give their lives for the cause should be able to claim ‘voluntary living expenses (VLR) to cover basic costs.’


    If they’ve ‘given their lives’ surely they won’t need living expenses?

    Certainly not the £150,000 a year they’re paying themselves.

    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gloucestershires-extinction-rebellion-godmother-gail-3423635

    Have a go at 300 times 50 again?
    I was just testing, honestly... :smile:

    (In fact, I misread it as £3000 a week.)
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    edited February 2020
    On investment in 'vice' shares and bonds: If taken to extremes (ie no investment at all in them then they would cease .Would that be a problem now ?
    Oil and gas - yes , society would grind to a halt
    Defence - I would argue less of a problem
    Tobacco- no real problem, Society gets healthy.

    So I would say somebody is doing the short term world a favour by still investing in oil an gas. Oil and gas needs to be invested in currently to mange it through a transition phase to clean energy .Students from Oxford should be able to see that logic #i would of thought and the Bursar was indirectly pointing it out that society cannot yet live without oil and gas.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830



    I took care to not to go into a detailed discussion of the bursar’s responsibilities (because it wasn’t really very relevant), all to no avail. Whether or not the bursar can act unilaterally, the college could act if it had the will. It evidently doesn’t.

    Not evidently at all, I would absolutely bet that the college has its position actively under review (and on ethical grounds, not just the way the rdsb share price is plummeting like a paralysed falcon). He was saying what *he personally* could do *at short notice*. Not since Cnut's holding back the sea thing has an excellent gag been so diametrically misinterpreted.
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    My own personal investment decisions (i like to play direct shares as a punter) is to only definitely not invest in defence shares. Whilst I dont like tobacco personally its a personal choice to smoke but not really a personal choice to not get bombed by a F15 ! Not investing in gambling companies would also be very hypocritical of me!
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    "Do something" like what? Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? Fuck knows how you know whether it's antiquated or not, but fossil fuel burning systems burn fossil fuel. "Antiquated" is merely about 10% efficiency gains. "Save the planet, but only if it causes me not the slightest possible inconvenience or discomfort" isn't going to work, and the professor of neurology (who is possibly almost as intelligent and scientifically well-informed as you are) nails the point admirably.
    I don't know the heating system either.
    Maybe it already has an energy supplier that uses renewables, maybe he's looked into ground source heat pumps and changed all the lighting to LEDs.
    Or maybe not.
    Well if you don't know what is the point of that post? A celebration of international blowhardery day? Are you going to tell us which of those things you have done?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Andy Street is a very good politician in terms of not answering questions.
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    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Interesting topic - it is certainly easier to tweet and shriek at someone else to sell shares than it is to give up daddy giving you and your stuff a lift to Uni in his Range Rover at the start of each term.

    Or indeed, Daddy's investment portfolio, where dividends from hydrocarbons companies helped pay for his offspring's private education....
    The position is exactly analogous to saying, pre-Wilberforce, that you will have nothing to do with investment in slave ships but absolutely have to have sugar in your tea. By nailing do-nothing blowhardery so accurately the bursar has actually done the climate a huge favour.
    As Alastair might have pointed out, it would be relatively simple for a college with the assets of St. John’s to do something about their antiquated heating system, should they care to. The analogy is far from exact.
    "Do something" like what? Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? Fuck knows how you know whether it's antiquated or not, but fossil fuel burning systems burn fossil fuel. "Antiquated" is merely about 10% efficiency gains. "Save the planet, but only if it causes me not the slightest possible inconvenience or discomfort" isn't going to work, and the professor of neurology (who is possibly almost as intelligent and scientifically well-informed as you are) nails the point admirably.
    I don't know the heating system either.
    Maybe it already has an energy supplier that uses renewables, maybe he's looked into ground source heat pumps and changed all the lighting to LEDs.
    Or maybe not.
    Well if you don't know what is the point of that post? A celebration of international blowhardery day? Are you going to tell us which of those things you have done?
    Why make it personal?
    I didn't make fun of your "Convert it to run on nuclear fusion? " despite it being stupid.
    And yes, as a matter of fact, I have done all three - not that it matters.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Just a thought as well, but probably the Bursar would be very happy to turn the CH off as it would save an absolute fortune in gas bills.

    Even turning it down to 18° (Newsflash - I find that temperature perfectly adequate) would probably save a huge sum of money
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Have the people of Ireland just voted for their own version of our useless 2017 Parliament?

    That would have been a pretty good parliament if they hadn't set up a ticking time bomb where bad things happened unless parliament took action. Historically governments that can't do much tend to be the best governments.
    Ha, you might have a point there. Wasn't it Belgium that had no government for more than a year?
    Belgium has seven layers of government and an asymmetrical devolutionary settlement where some areas of competence diverge on linguistic grounds and others on geographic. The absence of the top federal layer doesn't really impede the political program of the country even for an extended period.
    Exactly not like the centralised dictatorship we have here
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    This must surely be the finest excuse for late running of trains in the history of railways:

    Meanwhile, Southeastern train services have been disrupted by a trampoline blowing onto the line.

    Link (with photo):

    Storm Ciara: Travel disruption as UK hit by severe gales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425482
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    Just a thought as well, but probably the Bursar would be very happy to turn the CH off as it would save an absolute fortune in gas bills.

    There will be some Fellows living in College, of course -- but I am sure the heating arrangements for their rooms are different.

    Fellows Rooms are normally heated by incineration of swans and wigeon.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    ydoethur said:

    Just a thought as well, but probably the Bursar would be very happy to turn the CH off as it would save an absolute fortune in gas bills.

    Even turning it down to 18° (Newsflash - I find that temperature perfectly adequate) would probably save a huge sum of money

    Surely in this story the Bursar instead of being pompous should serve his customers, reduce investments in fossil fuels, and fund more efficient heating.
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    ydoethur said:

    This must surely be the finest excuse for late running of trains in the history of railways:

    Meanwhile, Southeastern train services have been disrupted by a trampoline blowing onto the line.

    Link (with photo):

    Storm Ciara: Travel disruption as UK hit by severe gales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425482

    Not as good as this excuse as used by Northern in December.


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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    ydoethur said:

    This must surely be the finest excuse for late running of trains in the history of railways:

    Meanwhile, Southeastern train services have been disrupted by a trampoline blowing onto the line.

    Link (with photo):

    Storm Ciara: Travel disruption as UK hit by severe gales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425482

    That is a common occurrence. Network Rail would gladly ban trampolines from being anywhere near railway lines.
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    Ethics? That's that county in Southern England with all those people with fake tans and indecipherable accents right?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    My son has just entered a Bank of England essay writing competition about this, pretty much. The absolute key to Alastair's excellent piece is that if you want to stop people investing in getting oil out of the ground you need to stop the demand for oil. Those focusing on the investment are doomed to fail as long as there is sufficient demand for the product to be sold at a profit.

    The tipping point for that change may be closer than we think. When it comes it will be momentous. And those that are invested in those oil giants will suffer. There is a huge amount of capital tied up in getting oil out of the ground and processed. That capital could quickly turn from asset to liability if the demand were to go and all that is left is the clean up costs.
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    My own personal investment decisions (i like to play direct shares as a punter) is to only definitely not invest in defence shares. Whilst I dont like tobacco personally its a personal choice to smoke but not really a personal choice to not get bombed by a F15 ! Not investing in gambling companies would also be very hypocritical of me!

    I tried as small experiment with som einvestments handled by Nutmeg.
    With the same ammount and same Risk setting in two different funds, one normal, one 'Socially Responsible'. I couldn't see much difference in returns, so I switched to Socially Responsible. This matches with what they have found - see the table on their website.
    https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-do-socially-responsible-portfolios-perform/

    "Our analysis has shown that there are no meaningful (statistically reliable) differences in the performance of strategies incorporating an SRI focus and those that don’t."
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983

    Ethics? That's that county in Southern England with all those people with fake tans and indecipherable accents right?

    Indecipherable accents!! This from someone in the North!!!!
This discussion has been closed.