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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » WH2020: New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo, moves to 3rd favourit

SystemSystem Posts: 11,019
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » WH2020: New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo, moves to 3rd favourite in the Dem nomination betting

With the coronavirus epidemic dominating the headlines almost right across the world a new name has appeared in the top three on the Betfair WH2020 Dem nomination market. He’s Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York which has the worst figures of any state in the US .

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Hello!
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Hello
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited March 2020
    It's madness. Now is the time to lay him if you've got the money free (eg if you've laid others). Even if Biden is toppled by this situation it's a big step to Cuomo becoming nominee. Sanders, for starters, might have something to say about it. And the chances of Biden being replaced are far slimmer than people seem to think. People and the press like the idea of exciting events and so over-rate their likelihood.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Third!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    This made me smile



  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Hello!

    Hello

    Staunch !
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    I agree with Mike.

    Biden confuses me, to be honest (no difficulty there - he confuses himself too). On the one hand, I see the subdued, rambling, aged man that prompted me to predict a Sanders nomination (I think between Iowa and NH); on the other, there's a politician who has come through around a dozen primary debates, most of them as front-runner, more or less unscathed.

    But if there is a vacancy, Cuomo would be a good fit for it. Team Bernie would of course do their absolute nut.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Quincel said:

    It's madness. Now is the time to lay him if you've got the money free (eg if you've laid others). Even if Biden is toppled by this situation it's a big step to Cuomo becoming nominee. Sanders, for starters, might have something to say about it. And the chances of Biden being replaced are far slimmer than people seem to think. People and the press like the idea of exciting events and so over-rate their likelihood.

    Agreed. I don't like Cuomo's current odds. I do like Mike's 180/1.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,268
    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,859
    Quincel said:

    It's madness. Now is the time to lay him if you've got the money free (eg if you've laid others). Even if Biden is toppled by this situation it's a big step to Cuomo becoming nominee. Sanders, for starters, might have something to say about it. And the chances of Biden being replaced are far slimmer than people seem to think. People and the press like the idea of exciting events and so over-rate their likelihood.

    Shh Mikes trying to get people to back so he can Lay at a profit!!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,859
    HYUFD said:
    I agree with Nigel TBF (only on that one sentence)
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    I agree with Mike.

    Biden confuses me, to be honest (no difficulty there - he confuses himself too). On the one hand, I see the subdued, rambling, aged man that prompted me to predict a Sanders nomination (I think between Iowa and NH); on the other, there's a politician who has come through around a dozen primary debates, most of them as front-runner, more or less unscathed.

    But if there is a vacancy, Cuomo would be a good fit for it. Team Bernie would of course do their absolute nut.

    I am not much of a follower of US politics, but even a casual watch gives the impression that Biden and Sanders need to retire from politics and make way for younger contenders.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    HYUFD said:
    Extraordinary. But I wonder if Trump's flippancy is the driving factor here - Americans are supporting him because they desperately want him to be right.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,592
    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    David, forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be mixing up the furlough payments, which are a grant, with the 80% government backed loan guarantees, which are indeed debt at seemingly commercial bank rates.
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    HYUFD said:
    Extraordinary. But I wonder if Trump's flippancy is the driving factor here - Americans are supporting him because they desperately want him to be right.
    He's also probably not wrong trying to blame it all on China, in an electoral sense. Effective way to deflect blame from his own failings.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,268
    On topic I don't see how this works. Biden and Sanders are both very, very weak candidates with lots of flaws and it is not surprising that Democrats flailing about in their desperation to get rid of Trump are looking for better but the Americans have a primary season for a reason. It tests the candidates, it allows direct comparisons, it involves the base and it generates money and profile for the successful candidates in a range of states.

    The failure to participate until it was too late rightly did for Bloomberg. Cuomo did not participate at all. He has not earned the right and, for all their faults, Biden and Saunders have.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I agree with Mike.

    Biden confuses me, to be honest (no difficulty there - he confuses himself too). On the one hand, I see the subdued, rambling, aged man that prompted me to predict a Sanders nomination (I think between Iowa and NH); on the other, there's a politician who has come through around a dozen primary debates, most of them as front-runner, more or less unscathed.

    But if there is a vacancy, Cuomo would be a good fit for it. Team Bernie would of course do their absolute nut.

    I am not much of a follower of US politics, but even a casual watch gives the impression that Biden and Sanders need to retire from politics and make way for younger contenders.
    I don't particularly blame them, to be honest. Yes, they should, in theory. But if the younger candidates were there, ready and able to win then they would have done. Unlike 2016, there were two dozen rather than two candidates to choose from - yet still Sanders and Biden were the ones left standing.
  • Options
    It all depends on events (dear boy). As there are a lot of primaries that haven't been run and America is getting worse not better it would be perfectly sensible for the DNC to void the primary process. Which gives them the option to chose someone who isn't a Covid-19 primary target as the candidate.

    Trump is a global embarrassment. Surely the DNC aren't going to be bound by a half-finished contest to chose the least worst alternative to Sanders. They absolutely need to find someone who can demolish the Donald. That person is Governor Cuomo.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    HYUFD said:
    Extraordinary. But I wonder if Trump's flippancy is the driving factor here - Americans are supporting him because they desperately want him to be right.
    Yes, I agree.

    Capt. Trump, RMS Even Biglier Titanic: " 'Tis but a scratch! Full steam ahead!"
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    France has extended the usual winter eviction ban for 2 months precisely to avoid this kind of situation. There needs to be more protection for tenants in these situations, shouldn't be forced to rely on the kindness of strangers.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    People - if you read the story, she is renting a room in the landlady's house. What would you do?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,580
    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    I didn't think the 80% furlough grant was a loan at all ?
    The real question is how soon it might actually be paid.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,361

    It all depends on events (dear boy). As there are a lot of primaries that haven't been run and America is getting worse not better it would be perfectly sensible for the DNC to void the primary process. Which gives them the option to chose someone who isn't a Covid-19 primary target as the candidate.

    Trump is a global embarrassment. Surely the DNC aren't going to be bound by a half-finished contest to chose the least worst alternative to Sanders. They absolutely need to find someone who can demolish the Donald. That person is Governor Cuomo.

    Ted Heath and Theresa May warn us that single-issue elections normally turn out not to be.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,268
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    David, forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be mixing up the furlough payments, which are a grant, with the 80% government backed loan guarantees, which are indeed debt at seemingly commercial bank rates.
    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Hello

    Is there anybody out there?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    I didn't think the 80% furlough grant was a loan at all ?
    The real question is how soon it might actually be paid.
    It is indeed a grant. They are expecting to pay it not before end of April but no commitment to this date yet. But they havent said who qualifies. Assuming everyone does is not something I am comfortable with for planning purposes.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Been avoiding here for the last week or 2 after it got taken over by the incurably pessimistic.

    Now pretty clear Italy is on a trajectory for sub 20k deaths in wave 1, and the UK with the advantage of advance warning is set to be materially less than that.

    The economic impacts of this, though diffuse and so easy to ignore, will have a far greater impact so one can only hope that plans are well afoot for the unwind of measures. Clearly the government can't say anything until we do hit peak without running out of capacity, but once we do they should be removing the least effective, most disruptive measures (i.e. school closures) PDQ.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    David, forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be mixing up the furlough payments, which are a grant, with the 80% government backed loan guarantees, which are indeed debt at seemingly commercial bank rates.
    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.
    I think it's either/or, rather than a top up.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348

    HYUFD said:
    I agree with Nigel TBF (only on that one sentence)
    +1.. you could have added , Gordon Brown was unfit to be PM and every pronouncement he has made since then confirms it. He is an idiot.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,066
    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    David, forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be mixing up the furlough payments, which are a grant, with the 80% government backed loan guarantees, which are indeed debt at seemingly commercial bank rates.
    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.
    The assumption is that for those employees for whom £2500 is not very much of their wages, that they can look after themselves for a period of months through accumulated wealth. They still can be subsidised to £2500 and are also spending far less than normal with no leisure or hospitality facilities available. It depends on your business choices though, it is not something they are entitled to.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    I didn't think the 80% furlough grant was a loan at all ?
    The real question is how soon it might actually be paid.
    It will at least 6 months, the infrastructure within Governemnt and the DWP is simply not there to administer it. People are completely deluded if they think the money will start flowing in April.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Divvie, has Austin Powers become a minister?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,066

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    People - if you read the story, she is renting a room in the landlady's house. What would you do?
    Hope I'd have behaved differently?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    David, forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be mixing up the furlough payments, which are a grant, with the 80% government backed loan guarantees, which are indeed debt at seemingly commercial bank rates.
    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.
    The assumption is that for those employees for whom £2500 is not very much of their wages, that they can look after themselves for a period of months through accumulated wealth. They still can be subsidised to £2500 and are also spending far less than normal with no leisure or hospitality facilities available. It depends on your business choices though, it is not something they are entitled to.
    I agree. Apart from a Fortnum's wine delivery (half bottles are very helpful in the present circs!) which has just arrived, my discretionary spending this week has been £0. £2500 ought to be enough to tide most people in furlough over.

  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891
    maaarsh said:

    Been avoiding here for the last week or 2 after it got taken over by the incurably pessimistic.

    Now pretty clear Italy is on a trajectory for sub 20k deaths in wave 1, and the UK with the advantage of advance warning is set to be materially less than that.

    You imply that you find 20 000 deaths was no reason to be pessimistic.

  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20

    Did she take them up on the offer?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    People - if you read the story, she is renting a room in the landlady's house. What would you do?
    Hope I'd have behaved differently?
    Seconded
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    Wow.

    Just - wow.

    No wonder MaxPB keeps referring to parasites.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,361
    OT just back from Sainsbury's. The 2m-separated queue even to be allowed into the store stretched a fair old way. I'm not sure this system will cope with the normal Saturday crowd, even allowing for most being four or five yards apart.

    Toilet roll (own brand only) near the entrance to confuse people looking in the normal aisle; no soap (except for the £9 fancy soap I had to buy because I'm running out of the £1 stuff) or sanitiser; no paper towels, tissues or paracetamol. A 3-items per customer limit even on things I normally buy six of each week.

    There are still one or two anomalies. Asking for card payments rather than cash is fine but get rid of the cardboard promotional wrap round the card reader, as customers are forced to touch it. Maybe have someone visibly cleaning card reader keyboards and trolley handles.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    It all depends on events (dear boy). As there are a lot of primaries that haven't been run and America is getting worse not better it would be perfectly sensible for the DNC to void the primary process. Which gives them the option to chose someone who isn't a Covid-19 primary target as the candidate.

    Trump is a global embarrassment. Surely the DNC aren't going to be bound by a half-finished contest to chose the least worst alternative to Sanders. They absolutely need to find someone who can demolish the Donald. That person is Governor Cuomo.

    Ted Heath and Theresa May warn us that single-issue elections normally turn out not to be.
    And if the American political system had mechanisms to deliver the right answer, we wouldn’t have gotten into this fine mess to begin with.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,361
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    People - if you read the story, she is renting a room in the landlady's house. What would you do?
    Hope I'd have behaved differently?
    Seconded
    As would most of us. Now swap sides and ask if you'd have behaved differently if you were the doctor. Would you have continued to expose your landlady to risks that you'd have PPE against at work?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20

    People will have to get creative to get round the social distancing rules.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    People - if you read the story, she is renting a room in the landlady's house. What would you do?
    Hope I'd have behaved differently?
    Seconded
    It is certainly possible that you would have behaved differently. But facing a high risk in your own home? That takes a certain cold blooded bravery.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    France has extended the usual winter eviction ban for 2 months precisely to avoid this kind of situation. There needs to be more protection for tenants in these situations, shouldn't be forced to rely on the kindness of strangers.
    It is high time a few of these landlords were named and shamed across the country, if only to encourage the others.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    US markets looking to open 2% up. FTSE flat.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,066

    Mr. Divvie, has Austin Powers become a minister?

    Now is not the time for Minister for Shagging jokes in Scotland.
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,435

    HYUFD said:
    Extraordinary. But I wonder if Trump's flippancy is the driving factor here - Americans are supporting him because they desperately want him to be right.
    He's also probably not wrong trying to blame it all on China, in an electoral sense. Effective way to deflect blame from his own failings.
    May be worth noting that Trump's ratings haven't sky-rocketed. In fact Macron and Boris have seen much bigger uplifts. A decent US President would probably have done much better. And this is before the cost of the pandemic impacts and questions get asked.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Barnesian said:

    US markets looking to open 2% up. FTSE flat.

    They’ve been open for an hour
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    Trump with best approval ratings since beginning of his presidency. Still net 6% disapproval according to 538.




  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,435

    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20

    She deftly palmed it off, to be fair. The CMO for Scotland is doing a good presentational job.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited March 2020

    I agree with Mike.

    Biden confuses me, to be honest (no difficulty there - he confuses himself too). On the one hand, I see the subdued, rambling, aged man that prompted me to predict a Sanders nomination (I think between Iowa and NH); on the other, there's a politician who has come through around a dozen primary debates, most of them as front-runner, more or less unscathed.

    But if there is a vacancy, Cuomo would be a good fit for it. Team Bernie would of course do their absolute nut.

    I am not much of a follower of US politics, but even a casual watch gives the impression that Biden and Sanders need to retire from politics and make way for younger contenders.
    I don't particularly blame them, to be honest. Yes, they should, in theory. But if the younger candidates were there, ready and able to win then they would have done. Unlike 2016, there were two dozen rather than two candidates to choose from - yet still Sanders and Biden were the ones left standing.
    If Biden and Sanders stood down (and Hilary!!) then another candidate would have to be picked. Would they really be weaker than a bloke who might not make it to November or another one who cannot remember his wife's name?

    Another less well known candidate might rise to the challenge if allowed to do so

    Over here we seem to be electing Starmer, who does not exactly glow with talent but looks like a towering statesman compared to Corbyn
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20

    She deftly palmed it off, to be fair. The CMO for Scotland is doing a good presentational job.
    It's easy to screw up over these.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.

    The company can keep them officially working (I guess from home) and pay full salary, or alternatively can put all or some of them on furlough, claim £2500 for each p/m from HMG, and top up to full whack out of reserves.

    That is my understanding of the choice you have.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    US markets looking to open 2% up. FTSE flat.

    They’ve been open for an hour
    They're now up 4%
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
    Well said. Oddest suggestion yet.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
    Well said. Oddest suggestion yet.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    eristdoof said:

    maaarsh said:

    Been avoiding here for the last week or 2 after it got taken over by the incurably pessimistic.

    Now pretty clear Italy is on a trajectory for sub 20k deaths in wave 1, and the UK with the advantage of advance warning is set to be materially less than that.

    You imply that you find 20 000 deaths was no reason to be pessimistic.

    I imply that it's not an exceptionally large number compared to several silly projects, the normal level of deaths per week, or the number of people who will indeed die indirectly because the world economy has been rendered smaller in the process. I'm not saying we shouldn't have taken action, but that once we hit peak without breaking the NHS, the balance of risk becomes overwhelmingly on the side of the economic impact.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I am sorry I haven't made that clear. Reading it again it seems a bit confused. In the case of my company £2500 a month, generous though it is, will not cover very much of the wages so we will have to make good the shortfall from our reserves. As I said we can do this for a period but that period is a short number of months.

    The company can keep them officially working (I guess from home) and pay full salary, or alternatively can put all or some of them on furlough, claim £2500 for each p/m from HMG and top up to full salary out of reserves.

    That is my understanding of the choice you have.
    That is of course still dependent on the employment contract - there is no new automatic right for businesses to furlough workers. Id imagine, given the economic climate, most workers will be happy to accept the change.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Barnesian said:

    Trump with best approval ratings since beginning of his presidency. Still net 6% disapproval according to 538.

    Can't imagine that'll last as the number of cases rockets, and the horror stories dominate the press.

    Exactly one month ago today he was boasting about only 15 cases, that it was all nothing, and would soon be zero. Today they'll catch China on the number of cases, over 80 thousand. In a week's time, 200k.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,528
    edited March 2020
    eristdoof said:

    maaarsh said:

    Been avoiding here for the last week or 2 after it got taken over by the incurably pessimistic.

    Now pretty clear Italy is on a trajectory for sub 20k deaths in wave 1, and the UK with the advantage of advance warning is set to be materially less than that.

    You imply that you find 20 000 deaths was no reason to be pessimistic.

    Italy has about 635,000 deaths a year on average. A spike in deaths of 20000 would be about 3% of the annual deaths - so like some really bad flu years. It would be an excellent outcome if it stayed that way. I can hardly believe it will be like that though. Keep hoping - same hope for the UK.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    edited March 2020
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    "Dyson gets order to produce 10,000 newly-designed ventilators for NHS" according to the Guardian.

    I hope they are also going to place an order with Ventilator Challenge UK too - wouldn't want to see us putting all our eggs in one untested basket.

    It would also be sensible to take up the UK's allocation of the EU's procurement. Guaranteed delivery of a proven product in two weeks time. If you don't need it, you can sell or pass it on.
    Do you know the terms of that arrangement?

    If it was without strings then I am very sceptical that the government would not take it up.

    Why do you think they did?

    "Brexit ideology" is not a credible response.
    The only risk with going ahead with the EU allocation of ventilators is the cost of equipment. Which is trivial in the scheme of things. If the government finds they are surplus to requirements, it can sell them on. It's a no brainer.

    The risks are much higher of depending on a manufacturer, who hasn't made this equipment before to productise a new design in a matter of days without testing in the field. It is sensible to mitigate that risk.

    Brexit is the only reason I can see for not doing so. The government hasn't actually put forward a justification for not doing so..
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628

    OT just back from Sainsbury's. The 2m-separated queue even to be allowed into the store stretched a fair old way. I'm not sure this system will cope with the normal Saturday crowd, even allowing for most being four or five yards apart.

    Toilet roll (own brand only) near the entrance to confuse people looking in the normal aisle; no soap (except for the £9 fancy soap I had to buy because I'm running out of the £1 stuff) or sanitiser; no paper towels, tissues or paracetamol. A 3-items per customer limit even on things I normally buy six of each week.

    There are still one or two anomalies. Asking for card payments rather than cash is fine but get rid of the cardboard promotional wrap round the card reader, as customers are forced to touch it. Maybe have someone visibly cleaning card reader keyboards and trolley handles.

    Just done the same. Long queue but it was in the sunshine and as friendly as it could be 2m apart and was fast and well organised.

    Most stuff in stock, including loo rolls that I didn't need and tinned tomatoes which I did need. Plenty of meat (none last week). Still no flour (ordinary or bread) nor rice. I tried to jump the queue at checkout not realising there was a queue with the 2m gap. Embarrassed!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,066
    edited March 2020

    Things have taken a turn in the Scottish Government daily update.

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1243161388400422913?s=20

    She deftly palmed it off, to be fair. The CMO for Scotland is doing a good presentational job.
    Yep, Catherine Calderwood seems to be part of a line of tough, capable women in Scottish public life.

    The jury remains very much out as to whether Leslie Evans fits that template.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,361
    OT official Chinese government hackers are reported to be at it again.
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/03/26/fireeye_apt41_chinese_hackers_zoho_citrix_cisco/
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    Here is the latest world data. It appears the latest UK figures for deaths have not been added for some reason.


  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,580

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    The government has gone further than it has in our history in underwriting 80% of the wages of those who have temporarily run out of work because of the CV and they have gone further than most other countries but have they gone far enough?

    For me the problem ultimately is that these payments are a loan. If the company receiving the money is in a business that is likely to bounce back quickly and catch up some of the lost production because there is even more pent up demand for their business this works but for the vast majority of businesses what they are facing is a one time hit in their business which is pretty likely to be a permanent loss. How do they then repay this additional debt? There is also a significant minority of businesses, airlines, cruise companies, holiday companies generally, who are likely to take a much longer term hit and have no realistic chance of paying back debt out of reduced incomes.

    I am the director of a company. We are having a board meeting this afternoon to work out what to do about our staff. We will suffer a very significant reduction in income over the next 3-4 months. After that we might recoup some of it as the courts get back to business but, frankly, the courts were pretty damn busy before this hit and have limited additional capacity to deal with a backlog. What is likely to happen is that new work will be displaced by the old not recouping what has been lost.

    What do we do? Fortunately we have sufficient reserves to see us out 3-4 months, more if we can get access to government funds. My guess is that we will keep most of our staff on pretty much full wages for now but our pot of money will be depleted. How long this lasts is the key question to which there is no clear answer. If we hadn't had those reserves I am really not clear how loans would have helped. The quid pro quo for keeping staff on should be grants not loans. Otherwise unemployment will rocket.

    I didn't think the 80% furlough grant was a loan at all ?
    The real question is how soon it might actually be paid.
    It will at least 6 months, the infrastructure within Governemnt and the DWP is simply not there to administer it. People are completely deluded if they think the money will start flowing in April.
    That is the rub.
    Providing it does get paid, eventually, that will be fine for many businesses. Any significant delay could/will be fatal for others. Hence the daily stories of mass layoffs.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,592
    "Covid tracker app shows one in 10 users have symptoms of coronavirus

    The app, made by King's College London, is the first of its kind and attracted 650,000 users within a day of launching"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/25/monitoring-app-suggests-65-million-people-uk-may-already-have/
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    HYUFD said:
    A French presidential candidate just has to be less unpopular than the next least bad candidate. The bar is lower than for the US where it's binary.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,361
    kjh said:

    OT just back from Sainsbury's. The 2m-separated queue even to be allowed into the store stretched a fair old way. I'm not sure this system will cope with the normal Saturday crowd, even allowing for most being four or five yards apart.

    Toilet roll (own brand only) near the entrance to confuse people looking in the normal aisle; no soap (except for the £9 fancy soap I had to buy because I'm running out of the £1 stuff) or sanitiser; no paper towels, tissues or paracetamol. A 3-items per customer limit even on things I normally buy six of each week.

    There are still one or two anomalies. Asking for card payments rather than cash is fine but get rid of the cardboard promotional wrap round the card reader, as customers are forced to touch it. Maybe have someone visibly cleaning card reader keyboards and trolley handles.

    Just done the same. Long queue but it was in the sunshine and as friendly as it could be 2m apart and was fast and well organised.

    Most stuff in stock, including loo rolls that I didn't need and tinned tomatoes which I did need. Plenty of meat (none last week). Still no flour (ordinary or bread) nor rice. I tried to jump the queue at checkout not realising there was a queue with the 2m gap. Embarrassed!
    Yes -- that happened with queues inside and outside the shop. It might be best to deploy staff or better signs so people can see what is happening, rather than risk a punch-up.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,816
    For @DavidL

    Information I've received is that:
    "Rules as set out in official statements

    1) Furloughed members of staff must not work for the employer during the period of furlough.

    2) Furlough is from 1 March 2020, so is to be backdated. It will last for at least 3 months and will be extended if necessary. Note that while the scheme is backdated to the beginning of March as it is intended to support all those employed then, a firm will only be eligible to claim the grant once they have agreed the furlough with their staff and staff have stopped working for the employer. This will of course be subject to employment law in the usual way.

    3) It is available to employees on the payroll at 29 February 2020.

    4) All UK businesses are eligible, 'any employer on the country, small or large, charitable or non-profit' to use the Chancellor's words.

    5) The scheme pays a grant (not a loan) to the employer.

    6) The grant will be paid to the employer through a new online system which is being built for this purpose.

    7) The employer will pay the employee through payroll, using the Real Time Information (RTI) system as usual, as required by the employment contract. This contract may be renegotiated but that is a matter for employment law. So RTI system reporting of payroll will continue as normal.

    8) Scheme will be administered by HMRC:

    • Relevant employees must be designated as furloughed employees.
    • Employers will submit information to HMRC through a new online portal.
    • As this will take time to build, businesses should look to the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme to support cash flow in the meantime. The narrative used in the information released so far says ‘if your employer cannot cover staff costs due to COVID-19 they may be able to access support…’. This is a conditional phrase which may relate to existing funds available to the employer. We do not yet know how these might be determined, nor whether there is a bar of some description.

    9) Maximum grant will be calculated per employee and is the lower of:

    • 80% of ‘wages’. The notes published so far, use the phrase ‘wage for all employment costs up to a cap of £2,500 per month’. It is our understanding that this includes employers' NIC and pension contributions. Wages will be determined by reference to a defined period (yet to be announced).
    • £2,500 per month."
  • Options
    FossFoss Posts: 694
    edited March 2020
    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    "Dyson gets order to produce 10,000 newly-designed ventilators for NHS" according to the Guardian.

    I hope they are also going to place an order with Ventilator Challenge UK too - wouldn't want to see us putting all our eggs in one untested basket.

    It would also be sensible to take up the UK's allocation of the EU's procurement. Guaranteed delivery of a proven product in two weeks time. If you don't need it, you can sell or pass it on.
    Do you know the terms of that arrangement?

    If it was without strings then I am very sceptical that the government would not take it up.

    Why do you think they did?

    "Brexit ideology" is not a credible response.
    The only risk with going ahead with the EU allocation of ventilators is the cost of equipment. Which is trivial in the scheme of things. If the government finds they are surplus to requirements, it can sell them on. It's a no brainer.

    The risks are much higher of depending on a manufacturer, who hasn't made this equipment before to productise a new design in a matter of days without testing in the field. It is sensible to mitigate that risk.

    Brexit is the only reason I can see for not doing so. The government hasn't actually put forward a justification for not doing so..
    If the terms of entry to the scheme forbid attempting to outbid the scheme and grab the lot, then entry to the scheme would put us at a disadvantage.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Barnesian said:

    Here is the latest world data. It appears the latest UK figures for deaths have not been added for some reason.

    Given that 80% of China's coronavirus test kits are useless, should we multiply their case counts by five?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited March 2020
    On the government salary packages - £2500 a month seems pretty fair - there's precious little to spend money on right now beyond food and a bit of petrol for going back and forth to the shops. Those with high fixed outgoings and those who despite high incomes spend every penny - welcome to the real world and do without for a while - they are not alone.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Yes, I like that. It's a wide open goal so no need to showboat. Just slot it home.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I agree with Mike.

    Biden confuses me, to be honest (no difficulty there - he confuses himself too). On the one hand, I see the subdued, rambling, aged man that prompted me to predict a Sanders nomination (I think between Iowa and NH); on the other, there's a politician who has come through around a dozen primary debates, most of them as front-runner, more or less unscathed.

    But if there is a vacancy, Cuomo would be a good fit for it. Team Bernie would of course do their absolute nut.

    I am not much of a follower of US politics, but even a casual watch gives the impression that Biden and Sanders need to retire from politics and make way for younger contenders.
    I don't particularly blame them, to be honest. Yes, they should, in theory. But if the younger candidates were there, ready and able to win then they would have done. Unlike 2016, there were two dozen rather than two candidates to choose from - yet still Sanders and Biden were the ones left standing.
    If Biden and Sanders stood down (and Hilary!!) then another candidate would have to be picked. Would they really be weaker than a bloke who might not make it to November or another one who cannot remember his wife's name?

    Another less well known candidate might rise to the challenge if allowed to do so

    Over here we seem to be electing Starmer, who does not exactly glow with talent but looks like a towering statesman compared to Corbyn
    But it's not as if other candidates were "not allowed". There were more than 20 of them who contested the nomination: the public had the chance to support and vote for them and chose not to. If there really were a great candidate in the wings, wouldn't they have shone out over the last year? They shouldn't (and don't) have to wait their turn.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Opened the cupboard with my stored flour, pasta, porridge and other pandemic essentials to discover it has been visited by a mouse who gained access through the hole in the back for the powerlead for the adjacent dishwasher. Naughty mouse has helped himself by sampling most of my lockdown emergency supplies.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
    Ultimately the COVID19 costs will need to be paid for. People who maintained very high incomes throughout are good candidates for a larger contribution.
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    MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755
    Andy_JS said:

    "Covid tracker app shows one in 10 users have symptoms of coronavirus

    The app, made by King's College London, is the first of its kind and attracted 650,000 users within a day of launching"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/25/monitoring-app-suggests-65-million-people-uk-may-already-have/

    When we get the antibodies test maybe we can work out rates of hypochondria nervosa amongst the general population.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
    Ultimately the COVID19 costs will need to be paid for. People who maintained very high incomes throughout are good candidates for a larger contribution.
    Doctors?
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    SockySocky Posts: 404
    FF43 said:



    [Taking the EU allocation of ventilators] Brexit is the only reason I can see for not doing so. The government hasn't actually put forward a justification for not doing so..

    If we can manufacture enough for our own use why grab some we don't need from the EU? Their need does appear to be greater than ours at the moment.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "NHS doctor 'evicted from home due to landlady's fears over COVID-19'

    The medic says she was "feeling pretty broken" after being evicted, but random acts of kindness since have lifted her spirits."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-from-home-due-to-landladys-fears-over-covid-19-11963799

    Landlords.
    Not quite fair. She had a house share. The landlady behaved in a shitty way, but was terrified. It's hard to condemn someone who was young and scared.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    "Dyson gets order to produce 10,000 newly-designed ventilators for NHS" according to the Guardian.

    I hope they are also going to place an order with Ventilator Challenge UK too - wouldn't want to see us putting all our eggs in one untested basket.

    It would also be sensible to take up the UK's allocation of the EU's procurement. Guaranteed delivery of a proven product in two weeks time. If you don't need it, you can sell or pass it on.
    Do you know the terms of that arrangement?

    If it was without strings then I am very sceptical that the government would not take it up.

    Why do you think they did?

    "Brexit ideology" is not a credible response.
    The only risk with going ahead with the EU allocation of ventilators is the cost of equipment. Which is trivial in the scheme of things. If the government finds they are surplus to requirements, it can sell them on. It's a no brainer.

    The risks are much higher of depending on a manufacturer, who hasn't made this equipment before to productise a new design in a matter of days without testing in the field. It is sensible to mitigate that risk.

    Brexit is the only reason I can see for not doing so. The government hasn't actually put forward a justification for not doing so..
    Why do we have to do it with the EU?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    egg said:

    “whatever it takes” part two.

    For the record, who actually thinks whatever it takes part one is doable, delivered as promised?

    (I am expecting the lefties on here to simply reply yes, and those economically right of centre and government supporters to remain largely silent)

    My view from the beginning is that the missing element is a temporary supertax.
    What the fuck for?
    Ultimately the COVID19 costs will need to be paid for. People who maintained very high incomes throughout are good candidates for a larger contribution.
    Doctors?
    Possibly. Doctors aren't left off paying tax. If we want to collectively reward healthcare workers at the end of this, a bonus would be the appropriate way to do it.
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