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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CO-19: It won’t be long before the global total tops the milli

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CO-19: It won’t be long before the global total tops the million mark

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    Ist like 'murica.
  • How much of that will be America?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Never had less faith in a statistic than this one.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    My reply isn the last thread about predictions


    It's the overall number of deaths that is doubling every 3 days, not the daily rate of deaths...

    We have circa 1000 dead today....in 3 days we will have overall 2000 dead (ie so we will see daily rises into the 300's in the next three days)

    In 6 days we will have 4000 dead...which will be daily rises into the low 600's

    In 9 days we will have 8000 dead...and then rises to 1000 a day plus....on a 3 day rule

    If it's 4 days doubling.....we will rises of 250 a day for the next 4 days....

    If it's 5 days doubling....we will see rates of 200 a day...so we will already be close to the worst....

    We can see why flattening the curve will save tens of thousands of lives....
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .
  • OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    OllyT said:

    isam said:
    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .
    I read about one team, I can't remember if it was rugby, football or American football, where the stars were prepaerd to take a considerable pay cut so that the all players could still get paid.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    The practical issue is that number of masks is simply not available. You might as well prescribe extract of moon beams until it is.

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    There aren't any masks...you cannot get masks...

    Anyhow....I would feel really guilty walking around in a mask knowing that they have been rationed for NHS staff....and there is me protecting my sorry ass doing a spot of shopping....I'd have to donate my masks if I had them which I haven't so I do not face this moral dilemma...

    That said...I think you are wrong about masks.....the Asians are much more likely to take instructions from authority...that's why...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
    Yes, and players contracts will end before we know who gets promoted or relegated.

    Sports clubs, like theatres, hotels, pubs, restaurants all are at risk of going under.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    The practical issue is that number of masks is simply not available. You might as well prescribe extract of moon beams until it is.

    It's OK. @eadric's got plenty he can lend us...
  • kyf_100 said:

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.
    I suspect the clubs with sugar daddies and those who are well run with little external debt will be fine, it'll be the ones that are up to their eyeballs in debt and are dependent on revenues to service debts that are buggered.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    There aren't any masks...you cannot get masks...

    Anyhow....I would feel really guilty walking around in a mask knowing that they have been rationed for NHS staff....and there is me protecting my sorry ass doing a spot of shopping....I'd have to donate my masks if I had them which I haven't so I do not face this moral dilemma...

    That said...I think you are wrong about masks.....the Asians are much more likely to take instructions from authority...that's why...
    "even a bandana".
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 892
    edited March 2020
    Football won't restart this season, will be voided I suspect

    Would just encourage people to go to each others houses to watch the games and have a few drinks together

    Personally very much doubt next season will take place either
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is even more important than that to reduce the time we have to spend in future lockdowns until a vaccine is found

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    The practical issue is that number of masks is simply not available. You might as well prescribe extract of moon beams until it is.

    I agree with eadric here. People in our neighbourhood are making their own washable masks out of cotton cloth, though most people still aren't wearing them much.

    A local hospital put simple sewing instructions on the internet, I would share but it's in German. An important thing is to include something like a thin piece of metal to shape over the nose apparently
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Total shut down in Spain only essential work to continue construction to stop not sure what else yet
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Football won't restart this season, will be voided I suspect

    Would just encourage people to go to each others houses to watch the games and have a few drinks together

    Personally very much doubt next season will take place either

    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    My suggestion.

    This season is abandoned. The 20/21 season starts in August/September.

    Promote those teams in promotion positions when th season was abandoned. Team in first play-off spot goes up.

    No teams relegated.

    Each team starts the 20/21 season with the points they had at the end of the abandoned 19/20 season - except the promoted teams, who have half the points they had at the time the season was abandoned.

    Then play the full season and relegate sufficient teams to restore the leagues to the appropriate number at the end of the season.
  • Football won't restart this season, will be voided I suspect

    Would just encourage people to go to each others houses to watch the games and have a few drinks together

    Personally very much doubt next season will take place either

    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.
    No doubt

    But there will be a desire to pretend next season will happen until it is clear it won't in my opinion

    This season will be binned by mid June and next season delayed a month later
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    kyf_100 said:

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.
    I suspect the clubs with sugar daddies and those who are well run with little external debt will be fine, it'll be the ones that are up to their eyeballs in debt and are dependent on revenues to service debts that are buggered.
    It raises an interesting question as to what is a football club's true value.

    Is it the intellectual property rights, is it the brand, the logo, the strip?

    Is it the players, who generate the product (winning games)?

    Or is it the fans, the customers, without whom neither of the above would matter.

    Imagine Manchester United goes bust. It's unlikely the fans would suddenly start supporting Manchester City. In the way that people might switch to kit kats if penguin biscuits went bust.

    But what if Man U went under and another club, Manchester Athletic was created, with a new logo and kit but signed all of Man U's laid off players. Would people transfer their allegiance?

    It's an interesting question and perfectly possible some clubs will go to the wall, just as many overextended businesses will.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    cking hell Ireland looks to have soared in % terms.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775
    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    I would like to know the answer to that too.

    A wild guess/positive spin would be that they decided to prioritise expanding ICU provision and ventilators, rather than keeping a more accurate count of mild cases. If there are a fair number of asymptomatic cases then testing those with mild symptoms doesn't gain you much, particularly if you already tell anyone with symptoms to stay home anyway, and when the number of cases is high enough that contact tracing becomes impractical.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    eadric said:

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    There aren't any masks...you cannot get masks...

    Anyhow....I would feel really guilty walking around in a mask knowing that they have been rationed for NHS staff....and there is me protecting my sorry ass doing a spot of shopping....I'd have to donate my masks if I had them which I haven't so I do not face this moral dilemma...

    That said...I think you are wrong about masks.....the Asians are much more likely to take instructions from authority...that's why...
    At the end of all this, we will probably have learned to obey, the hard way.

    This is remarkable

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-to-china-the-virus-is-now-a-foreign-problem-and-theyre-creating-a-fortress-to-keep-it-so-11965056
    Might I humbly suggest the Chinese authorities also concentrate on stopping the bat nose licking or whatever it is that started all this.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Football won't restart this season, will be voided I suspect

    Would just encourage people to go to each others houses to watch the games and have a few drinks together

    Personally very much doubt next season will take place either

    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.
    No doubt

    But there will be a desire to pretend next season will happen until it is clear it won't in my opinion

    This season will be binned by mid June and next season delayed a month later
    Its absurd to void two seasons when its completely avoidable to have to void two.

    Gary Neville's got the right idea. Just take as long as it takes to finish this one, then deal with next season with the information available then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited March 2020
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775
    Pulpstar said:

    cking hell Ireland looks to have soared in % terms.

    Yes, but number of deaths is still small, so percentage increase is not a robust statistic.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    An infant has died of COVID in Illinois reports State Governor
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    I don't dismiss the privacy concerns but when the alternatives are that NO-ONE can re-enter society or that we will see the death cycle ratchet up again, it's an obvious choice to make.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
    The point is that it's wrong to claim that we have fewer cases per head than South Korea.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    edited March 2020


    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.

    Other sports face similar problems - rugby union, horse racing as well.

    The PL and Championship have nine rounds of matches outstanding which wouldn't be too bad - four weeks of two games a week plus one final round so achievable.

    The problem is you also have three rounds of FA Cup and European matches to complete.

    We're looking at six weeks of 2-3 games per week for some teams and 1-2 for others so start mid June end late July and start the new season without a break. It might be achievable, it might not.

    Matches played behind closed doors under tight security to begin with perhaps with relaxation later on.

    For horse racing the flat season will need to be re-considered. The Guineas looks doubtful (early May) but the Derby and Ascot (which are as much social as sporting occasions and therefore staging them without spectators seems impractical) are June.

    Oddly enough, the large events in each sport look more vulnerable than the day-to-day. Horse racing re-commencing at smaller fixtures behind closed doors in early May looks feasible subject to medical cover so a midweek Lingfield card would be a better option than Chester or the Dante meeting at York?

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    IshmaelZ said:

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    There aren't any masks...you cannot get masks...

    Anyhow....I would feel really guilty walking around in a mask knowing that they have been rationed for NHS staff....and there is me protecting my sorry ass doing a spot of shopping....I'd have to donate my masks if I had them which I haven't so I do not face this moral dilemma...

    That said...I think you are wrong about masks.....the Asians are much more likely to take instructions from authority...that's why...
    "even a bandana".
    I'd look a complete cunt wandering around Oxford North walking a little fluffy white accessory dog sporting a bandana (is it OK to use the C word on this site?)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    I don't dismiss the privacy concerns but when the alternatives are that NO-ONE can re-enter society or that we will see the death cycle ratchet up again, it's an obvious choice to make.
    The greater concern is that it would create a perverse incentive for anyone who likes their odds of having a mild case to deliberately try to catch the virus.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    44% of those tested in New York yesterday were positive......
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    Sky News report: one policeman in Alexandra Township in South Africa trying to get thousands of people to stand more than one metre apart. He didn't have much success.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    NYTimes:

    Dr. Anthony Fauci, the administration’s most outspoken advocate of emergency virus measures, faces a torrent of false claims that he is mobilizing to undermine the president.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited March 2020
    Floater said:

    44% of those tested in New York yesterday were positive......


    Hopefully we are a in a truce now....but that is really shocking....

    Cumo saw hospital acute admissions on a 4.7 day doubling...something that would have indicated that they are over or close to the worst.....

    New York is going to be horrendous if that testing figure is right...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,462
    stodge said:


    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.

    Other sports face similar problems - rugby union, horse racing as well.

    The PL and Championship have nine rounds of matches outstanding which wouldn't be too bad - four weeks of two games a week plus one final round so achievable.

    The problem is you also have three rounds of FA Cup and European matches to complete.

    We're looking at six weeks of 2-3 games per week for some teams and 1-2 for others so start mid May end late June and start the new season without a break. It might be achievable, it might not.

    Matches played behind closed doors under tight security to begin with perhaps with relaxation later on.

    For horse racing the flat season will need to be re-considered. The Guineas looks doubtful (early May) but the Derby and Ascot (which are as much social as sporting occasions and therefore staging them without spectators seems impractical) are June.

    Oddly enough, the large events in each sport look more vulnerable than the day-to-day. Horse racing re-commencing at smaller fixtures behind closed doors in early May looks feasible subject to medical cover so a midweek Lingfield card would be a better option than Chester or the Dante meeting at York?

    No reason FA Cup couldnt be finished next season with a December final with the 2020-21 League cup cancelled. Champs League its realistically just Man City and they can play their first team in that and reserves in Prem games and still finish second. Europa League prem teams have played their reserves in more often than not anyway. Get it done.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    My guess this morning was that we will go past the million in about 10 days. I think that the rate of growth will start to slow given the number of countries in lockdown.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    He's not talking about "the death rate from it once you have it", you moron.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
    I read somewhere today if you put your cloth mask in the oven for some minutes at 70° that will sterilise your mask very effectively.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    DavidL said:

    My guess this morning was that we will go past the million in about 10 days. I think that the rate of growth will start to slow given the number of countries in lockdown.

    4 days I think.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    I don't dismiss the privacy concerns but when the alternatives are that NO-ONE can re-enter society or that we will see the death cycle ratchet up again, it's an obvious choice to make.
    The greater concern is that it would create a perverse incentive for anyone who likes their odds of having a mild case to deliberately try to catch the virus.
    Hopefully the testing would focus on continuing absence of the virus rather than the presence of the antibody - because CONTAINMENT WORKED and there aren't enough people who have the antibody.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited March 2020

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    That's right......and the antibody certificate...or virus clean...you won't necessarily need to have had the virus (to be shown in an shared App) needs to be 100% reliable...

    Or we get the vaccine.....

    That is the only way you can get the economy again in any meaningful way....

    Sadly we are stuck in quasi lockdown until that happens...


  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,409
    RobD said:
    No. First statistics. Then tests. Now masks.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    Sounds like an absolutely brilliant way to get 90% of the under 60s attending pox parties so they can get it and get back to working, getting paid, seeing friends, having a life. i.e. it will not "flatten the curve"!

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    What’s the guesses as to how and when the restrictions will be relaxed?

    Giving it no thought, I’d say 3 weeks we can have visitors to the house, social distancing still, some more shops can open... pubs, restaurants etc about a month after that?

    Testing is the key. Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home.

    Incidentally do we know why the UK has fallen behind other countries on the amount of testing? At one point we were testing more but other countries seem to have overtaken us.
    "Once we can routinely and rapidly test people, those who test negative or have the antibody can go about their business while the rest stay at home."

    We are in danger of entering a dystopian scenario. Those with the antibody certificate can reenter society, those without must be locked in their homes.

    I don't dismiss the privacy concerns but when the alternatives are that NO-ONE can re-enter society or that we will see the death cycle ratchet up again, it's an obvious choice to make.
    The greater concern is that it would create a perverse incentive for anyone who likes their odds of having a mild case to deliberately try to catch the virus.
    Hopefully the testing would focus on continuing absence of the virus rather than the presence of the antibody - because CONTAINMENT WORKED and there aren't enough people who have the antibody.
    Sadly, that horse has bolted into the far distance and the stable door is swinging wide open.....this virus is no longer containable...there might have been a window of opportunity...but the majority of the world is going to get it....

    The other game changer is proven anti virals that mitigate the worst excesses of this disease....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,409
    Scott_xP said:
    Actually I find that figure a lot more positive than I thought it would be based on some of the news reports from Italy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    The Vatican city is up to a staggering 7,491 per million infection rate after 2 new cases today brought the total to 6.
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
    I read somewhere today if you put your cloth mask in the oven for some minutes at 70° that will sterilise your mask very effectively.

    Nope, needs to be 121c (250f) for at least 30 minutes.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Here's ana rticle that's out of date before it's written.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe

    There'll be 90k workers to do this domestically once we're out of lockdown.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
    I read somewhere today if you put your cloth mask in the oven for some minutes at 70° that will sterilise your mask very effectively.

    Nope, needs to be 121c (250f) for at least 30 minutes.
    If you put your mask in the oven, your lungs are likely to suffer more damage from inhaling the smoke.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    My guess this morning was that we will go past the million in about 10 days. I think that the rate of growth will start to slow given the number of countries in lockdown.

    4 days I think.
    3 days tops
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    The next two weeks will be the toughest yet in the fight against coronavirus in France, Prime Minister Edouard Philippe has warned.

    Doctors in the greater Paris region have warned their intensive care units will be full by the end of the weekend, whilst healthcare services in the east of France are already struggling to cope.

    “We are fighting a battle that will take time,” Philippe said in a televised address. “The first two weeks of April will be harder than the two we have just lived through.”

    The army and emergency workers were this weekend stepping up the transfer of patients to less-affected regions, using a military helicopter and a specially-adapted TGV train, in an attempt to free up intensive care beds in worst-hit areas.

    By Saturday, the death toll in France was 2,314, with more than 37,575 confirmed cases, according to official figures.

    However, the government tally only accounts for those dying in hospital, so the figure is likely to be much higher. Authorities say they will be able to compile data on deaths in retirement homes from next week, which is likely to result in an increase in the official death toll.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    He's not talking about "the death rate from it once you have it", you moron.
    You cannot measure death rate unless of those who have it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    DavidL said:

    The Vatican city is up to a staggering 7,491 per million infection rate after 2 new cases today brought the total to 6.

    Rutland now has 2 cases, it seems to be everywhere. 2 deaths on the IoW too.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
    I read somewhere today if you put your cloth mask in the oven for some minutes at 70° that will sterilise your mask very effectively.

    Nope, needs to be 121c (250f) for at least 30 minutes.
    A pressure cooker will do that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
    The point is that it's wrong to claim that we have fewer cases per head than South Korea.
    Not at the time that chart was taken
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    He's not talking about "the death rate from it once you have it", you moron.
    You cannot measure death rate unless of those who have it
    Confirmed cases:

    United Kingdom - 17,089
    South Korea - 9,478
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
    The point is that it's wrong to claim that we have fewer cases per head than South Korea.
    Not at the time that chart was taken
    It would still have been wrong because confirmed cases are a subset of actual cases.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    tyson said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    There aren't any masks...you cannot get masks...

    Anyhow....I would feel really guilty walking around in a mask knowing that they have been rationed for NHS staff....and there is me protecting my sorry ass doing a spot of shopping....I'd have to donate my masks if I had them which I haven't so I do not face this moral dilemma...

    That said...I think you are wrong about masks.....the Asians are much more likely to take instructions from authority...that's why...
    "even a bandana".
    I'd look a complete cunt wandering around Oxford North walking a little fluffy white accessory dog sporting a bandana (is it OK to use the C word on this site?)
    Not sure - the furthest I`ve ever gone is twat
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    On the homemade mask movement in the Czech Republc
    https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-czechs-facing-up-to-covid-19-crisis-by-making-masks-mandatory
    A featured story in this morning’s edition of Novinky.cz, an online news site, warns that “improperly treated masks may increase the risk of infection.” Quoting health officials from across the world, it noted that surgical masks must be changed regularly, whereas in the Czech Republic many people are wearing the same mask each day because of a shortage of stock, and they can become contaminated easily after being touched.

    Indeed, concerns have been raised by Czech media in recent days that the demand for medical masks among the public because of the regulation is causing shortages in hospitals, where they are needed most greatly. Many pharmacies and hospitals have now run out of stock, and the authorities are sequestering the current stock for use for doctors and other front-line medical staff and patients.
    I read somewhere today if you put your cloth mask in the oven for some minutes at 70° that will sterilise your mask very effectively.

    Nope, needs to be 121c (250f) for at least 30 minutes.
    A pressure cooker will do that.
    30 minutes in Milton too?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    tyson said:

    Floater said:

    44% of those tested in New York yesterday were positive......


    Hopefully we are a in a truce now....but that is really shocking....

    Cumo saw hospital acute admissions on a 4.7 day doubling...something that would have indicated that they are over or close to the worst.....

    New York is going to be horrendous if that testing figure is right...
    Yeah - I probably overreacted the other day - sorry, I should have just let it slide

    I can imagine the stress your under

    As it happens I got news this evening about PPE situation here which both shocked and angered me.

    It sounds like its more a distribution issue but jeez........
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    Pulpstar said:

    Here's ana rticle that's out of date before it's written.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe

    There'll be 90k workers to do this domestically once we're out of lockdown.

    More like 900k. A lot of businesses which employ a lot of people are never going to open again.
  • stodge said:


    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.

    Other sports face similar problems - rugby union, horse racing as well.

    The PL and Championship have nine rounds of matches outstanding which wouldn't be too bad - four weeks of two games a week plus one final round so achievable.

    The problem is you also have three rounds of FA Cup and European matches to complete.

    We're looking at six weeks of 2-3 games per week for some teams and 1-2 for others so start mid May end late June and start the new season without a break. It might be achievable, it might not.

    Matches played behind closed doors under tight security to begin with perhaps with relaxation later on.

    For horse racing the flat season will need to be re-considered. The Guineas looks doubtful (early May) but the Derby and Ascot (which are as much social as sporting occasions and therefore staging them without spectators seems impractical) are June.

    Oddly enough, the large events in each sport look more vulnerable than the day-to-day. Horse racing re-commencing at smaller fixtures behind closed doors in early May looks feasible subject to medical cover so a midweek Lingfield card would be a better option than Chester or the Dante meeting at York?

    No reason FA Cup couldnt be finished next season with a December final with the 2020-21 League cup cancelled. Champs League its realistically just Man City and they can play their first team in that and reserves in Prem games and still finish second. Europa League prem teams have played their reserves in more often than not anyway. Get it done.

    I really am of the opinion football as we know it may not survive covid 19

    Already the broadcasters are seeing a collapse in their sports income and this can only get worse as we emerge into an economic disaster with lost jobs, businesses and confidence

    At the end of June the broadcasters are likely to be locked in a huge legal fight with the football authorities. Clubs will see a collapse in season ticket sales and income from broadcasting

    Players will be seeing large reductions in wages and transfer, as clubs see revenue drop from season ticket sales, broadcast income, and sponsorship

    I see no pathway to football starting before late august but the chaos amongst clubs, players and supporters is going to be catastrophic. Indeed how many clubs will have players fit enough to play at the highest level and indeed how many will still be at the clubs they are today

    I love football, but I believe everyone needs to accept it cannot be the same and even thinking about it is absurd in the context of the people's priorities, and the nations, post covid 19
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.

    But it isn't Everton that would go bust - it's those unfortunate enough to own the club when the music stopped.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
    The point is that it's wrong to claim that we have fewer cases per head than South Korea.
    Not at the time that chart was taken
    It would still have been wrong because confirmed cases are a subset of actual cases.
    Take it up with John Hopkins University if you dispute the figures
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.

    I make that argument about Virgin Atlantic.

    And I make that argument because if you can't ever go bankrupt, because the government will bail you out, then it is an optimal strategy to lever up as much as possible.

    The reason why wealth inequality has increased in the last ten years is because of wealthy people being able to engage in a massive carry trade: borrow at 3%, invest at 5%. Free money. Oodles of free money. The more you leverage yourself, the richer you become.

    If Virgin Atlantic go bust, it is shit for people who have loads of Virgin miles, like me. It's shit for Richard Branson. It's shit for the CEO, and various other people who own shares.

    But it does not affect the productive power of the economy. Someone will come along, and buy Virgin Atlantic out of the administrators or recievers.

    And even if they don't, then someone will lease some planes (they already exist) and setup a new route from LA to London. The amount of work done in the economy will be the same.

    What we will have done, though, is make it clear to the wealthy that they cannot engage, at the public's expense, in a massive carry trade that does nothing for the real economy.

    Bailing out Virgin Atlantic is corporatism. It stunk in the 1970s. And it stinks now. It doesn't save jobs, it merely encourages the uber-wealthy to borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
    A fair point.

    I don't think the productive power of the economy will be damaged by, say, Man U going to the wall, either.

    Surely the biggest swindle is the banks being able to borrow money at nothing or next to nothing, then loaning it out to the likes of you or me at 12% (for a business loan - 40% on an agreed overdraft!). I don't understand why the government doesn't loan or even give people the money directly.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441

    Scott_xP said:
    Actually I find that figure a lot more positive than I thought it would be based on some of the news reports from Italy.
    It's very interesting. In essence, seriously obese people clearly have a poorer prognosis once within the ICU and males are much more susceptible. This all confirms reports from other countries. I think the definition of 'very severe comorbidities' they have used is quite narrow - for example, 'standard' hypertension or several other factors that are commonly mentioned as increasing risk are not included. Hence, I suspect the fraction of those who have been in the ICU with one of these milder symptoms would be a bit higher. Given this, I think the report might (although clearly it's not super positive) be better in some sense than at first glance and might reinforce what @SandyRentool said.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    The news from Spain tonight is awful. The extension of the shutdown to now cover all non-essential work is pretty much the last throw of the dice. There is not much else they can do now if this doesn't work. Extraordinary how quickly it has come to this.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's ana rticle that's out of date before it's written.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe

    There'll be 90k workers to do this domestically once we're out of lockdown.

    More like 900k. A lot of businesses which employ a lot of people are never going to open again.
    Well we will have plenty of people to harvest the crops I suppose.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The Vatican city is up to a staggering 7,491 per million infection rate after 2 new cases today brought the total to 6.

    Rutland now has 2 cases, it seems to be everywhere. 2 deaths on the IoW too.
    Orkney still zero, I believe??
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    stodge said:


    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.

    Other sports face similar problems - rugby union, horse racing as well.

    The PL and Championship have nine rounds of matches outstanding which wouldn't be too bad - four weeks of two games a week plus one final round so achievable.

    The problem is you also have three rounds of FA Cup and European matches to complete.

    We're looking at six weeks of 2-3 games per week for some teams and 1-2 for others so start mid May end late June and start the new season without a break. It might be achievable, it might not.

    Matches played behind closed doors under tight security to begin with perhaps with relaxation later on.

    For horse racing the flat season will need to be re-considered. The Guineas looks doubtful (early May) but the Derby and Ascot (which are as much social as sporting occasions and therefore staging them without spectators seems impractical) are June.

    Oddly enough, the large events in each sport look more vulnerable than the day-to-day. Horse racing re-commencing at smaller fixtures behind closed doors in early May looks feasible subject to medical cover so a midweek Lingfield card would be a better option than Chester or the Dante meeting at York?

    No reason FA Cup couldnt be finished next season with a December final with the 2020-21 League cup cancelled. Champs League its realistically just Man City and they can play their first team in that and reserves in Prem games and still finish second. Europa League prem teams have played their reserves in more often than not anyway. Get it done.

    I really am of the opinion football as we know it may not survive covid 19

    Already the broadcasters are seeing a collapse in their sports income and this can only get worse as we emerge into an economic disaster with lost jobs, businesses and confidence

    At the end of June the broadcasters are likely to be locked in a huge legal fight with the football authorities. Clubs will see a collapse in season ticket sales and income from broadcasting

    Players will be seeing large reductions in wages and transfer, as clubs see revenue drop from season ticket sales, broadcast income, and sponsorship

    I see no pathway to football starting before late august but the chaos amongst clubs, players and supporters is going to be catastrophic. Indeed how many clubs will have players fit enough to play at the highest level and indeed how many will still be at the clubs they are today

    I love football, but I believe everyone needs to accept it cannot be the same and even thinking about it is absurd in the context of the people's priorities, and the nations, post covid 19
    I had an overwhelming sense of nostalgia today for football....but you are right
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,462

    stodge said:


    If we can't guarantee next season can take place uninterrupted then it'd be absurd to void this season. Just continue this season next season. Better one two-year season than no seasons for two years.

    Other sports face similar problems - rugby union, horse racing as well.

    The PL and Championship have nine rounds of matches outstanding which wouldn't be too bad - four weeks of two games a week plus one final round so achievable.

    The problem is you also have three rounds of FA Cup and European matches to complete.

    We're looking at six weeks of 2-3 games per week for some teams and 1-2 for others so start mid May end late June and start the new season without a break. It might be achievable, it might not.

    Matches played behind closed doors under tight security to begin with perhaps with relaxation later on.

    For horse racing the flat season will need to be re-considered. The Guineas looks doubtful (early May) but the Derby and Ascot (which are as much social as sporting occasions and therefore staging them without spectators seems impractical) are June.

    Oddly enough, the large events in each sport look more vulnerable than the day-to-day. Horse racing re-commencing at smaller fixtures behind closed doors in early May looks feasible subject to medical cover so a midweek Lingfield card would be a better option than Chester or the Dante meeting at York?

    No reason FA Cup couldnt be finished next season with a December final with the 2020-21 League cup cancelled. Champs League its realistically just Man City and they can play their first team in that and reserves in Prem games and still finish second. Europa League prem teams have played their reserves in more often than not anyway. Get it done.

    I really am of the opinion football as we know it may not survive covid 19

    Already the broadcasters are seeing a collapse in their sports income and this can only get worse as we emerge into an economic disaster with lost jobs, businesses and confidence

    At the end of June the broadcasters are likely to be locked in a huge legal fight with the football authorities. Clubs will see a collapse in season ticket sales and income from broadcasting

    Players will be seeing large reductions in wages and transfer, as clubs see revenue drop from season ticket sales, broadcast income, and sponsorship

    I see no pathway to football starting before late august but the chaos amongst clubs, players and supporters is going to be catastrophic. Indeed how many clubs will have players fit enough to play at the highest level and indeed how many will still be at the clubs they are today

    I love football, but I believe everyone needs to accept it cannot be the same and even thinking about it is absurd in the context of the people's priorities, and the nations, post covid 19
    Players and agents may well earn less, especially over the next few years, but its probably a blip, the logic of the elite players earning more will continue to be driven by global interest and online pay tv and that will remain the longer term trend.

    Football still would work fine as a spectacle whether the players were amateur or billionaires. The players dont need to be as fit as they would be normally, if the opposition are also less fit, so that part is fine.

    The Soton chairman said the govt were keen on them starting behind closed doors before the lockdown ends. Clubs and TV will also want that. So we will restart as soon as the players can be convinced, which will be the tricky point.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.

    I make that argument about Virgin Atlantic.

    And I make that argument because if you can't ever go bankrupt, because the government will bail you out, then it is an optimal strategy to lever up as much as possible.

    The reason why wealth inequality has increased in the last ten years is because of wealthy people being able to engage in a massive carry trade: borrow at 3%, invest at 5%. Free money. Oodles of free money. The more you leverage yourself, the richer you become.

    If Virgin Atlantic go bust, it is shit for people who have loads of Virgin miles, like me. It's shit for Richard Branson. It's shit for the CEO, and various other people who own shares.

    But it does not affect the productive power of the economy. Someone will come along, and buy Virgin Atlantic out of the administrators or recievers.

    And even if they don't, then someone will lease some planes (they already exist) and setup a new route from LA to London. The amount of work done in the economy will be the same.

    What we will have done, though, is make it clear to the wealthy that they cannot engage, at the public's expense, in a massive carry trade that does nothing for the real economy.

    Bailing out Virgin Atlantic is corporatism. It stunk in the 1970s. And it stinks now. It doesn't save jobs, it merely encourages the uber-wealthy to borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
    A fair point.

    I don't think the productive power of the economy will be damaged by, say, Man U going to the wall, either.

    Surely the biggest swindle is the banks being able to borrow money at nothing or next to nothing, then loaning it out to the likes of you or me at 12% (for a business loan - 40% on an agreed overdraft!). I don't understand why the government doesn't loan or even give people the money directly.
    I'm OK with Manchester United going bust too!

    What we're all discovering right now is which football clubs did a good job of negotiating their insurance, and which did a poor one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    tlg86 said:

    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.

    But it isn't Everton that would go bust - it's those unfortunate enough to own the club when the music stopped.
    Spot on.

    Rangers went bust.

    Rangers still exists.

    The whole point about being a shareholder, is that you're first against the wall. That's the deal implicit in capitalism. You get the spoils, but there has to be an element of risk.

    I feel a lot happier about bailing out workers than I do about bailing out Richard Branson or the Glazers.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    So depressingly simple



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    https://twitter.com/kateparkersb/status/1243976918568800257?s=21

    We currently have even fewer cases per head than South Korea where they wear plenty of masks but the restaurants and bars are still open, keeping 2 metres from others and only going out for exercise or to buy food to take home is probably more important.

    The testing the South Koreans did early and often is probably more important

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1243913186576867333?s=20
    I think number of deaths is a more robust figure for comparison. UK has 5 times as many deaths per capita as South Korea.
    Maybe but that is irrelevant in terms of masks, which only stop the spread of coronavirus a bit, they do not affect the death rate from it once you have it.
    The number of ventilators you have in your health service and the rate of smoking amongst the population is more relevant to the death rate
    The point is that it's wrong to claim that we have fewer cases per head than South Korea.
    Not at the time that chart was taken
    It would still have been wrong because confirmed cases are a subset of actual cases.
    We have a policy of not wanting to know how many cases we have. South Korea (and perhaps Germany) have the opposite policy.

    We will, therefore, have a much higher death rate.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Juventus has announced that it has reached an agreement with the coach of its first team, Maurizio Sarri, and its players for a salary reduction from March to June, both months included. "In the coming weeks, the individual agreements will end. The economic and financial effects derived from the agreement reached are positive for approximately 90 million euros for the fiscal year 2019/2020," says the club.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.

    But it isn't Everton that would go bust - it's those unfortunate enough to own the club when the music stopped.
    Spot on.

    Rangers went bust.

    Rangers still exists.

    The whole point about being a shareholder, is that you're first against the wall. That's the deal implicit in capitalism. You get the spoils, but there has to be an element of risk.

    I feel a lot happier about bailing out workers than I do about bailing out Richard Branson or the Glazers.
    Agreed re workers.

    As a Man U fan seeing United go bust would be worth it if it meant the Glazers were sent packing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    ABZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Actually I find that figure a lot more positive than I thought it would be based on some of the news reports from Italy.
    It's very interesting. In essence, seriously obese people clearly have a poorer prognosis once within the ICU and males are much more susceptible. This all confirms reports from other countries. I think the definition of 'very severe comorbidities' they have used is quite narrow - for example, 'standard' hypertension or several other factors that are commonly mentioned as increasing risk are not included. Hence, I suspect the fraction of those who have been in the ICU with one of these milder symptoms would be a bit higher. Given this, I think the report might (although clearly it's not super positive) be better in some sense than at first glance and might reinforce what @SandyRentool said.
    619/775 were still ventilated, so neither in the dead nor discharged group. It is clear that quite long term ventilation is required compared to other conditions.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.

    I make that argument about Virgin Atlantic.

    And I make that argument because if you can't ever go bankrupt, because the government will bail you out, then it is an optimal strategy to lever up as much as possible.

    The reason why wealth inequality has increased in the last ten years is because of wealthy people being able to engage in a massive carry trade: borrow at 3%, invest at 5%. Free money. Oodles of free money. The more you leverage yourself, the richer you become.

    If Virgin Atlantic go bust, it is shit for people who have loads of Virgin miles, like me. It's shit for Richard Branson. It's shit for the CEO, and various other people who own shares.

    But it does not affect the productive power of the economy. Someone will come along, and buy Virgin Atlantic out of the administrators or recievers.

    And even if they don't, then someone will lease some planes (they already exist) and setup a new route from LA to London. The amount of work done in the economy will be the same.

    What we will have done, though, is make it clear to the wealthy that they cannot engage, at the public's expense, in a massive carry trade that does nothing for the real economy.

    Bailing out Virgin Atlantic is corporatism. It stunk in the 1970s. And it stinks now. It doesn't save jobs, it merely encourages the uber-wealthy to borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
    A fair point.

    I don't think the productive power of the economy will be damaged by, say, Man U going to the wall, either.

    Surely the biggest swindle is the banks being able to borrow money at nothing or next to nothing, then loaning it out to the likes of you or me at 12% (for a business loan - 40% on an agreed overdraft!). I don't understand why the government doesn't loan or even give people the money directly.
    Banks are making nothing like this NET
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.

    But it isn't Everton that would go bust - it's those unfortunate enough to own the club when the music stopped.
    Spot on.

    Rangers went bust.

    Rangers still exists.

    That is a controversial assertion in Scottish football.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780

    kyf_100 said:

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.

    OllyT said:

    Re the announcement that the PL want to finish the season behind closed doors.

    With things like the Olympics cancelled for a year what the f**k is the obsession with trying to finish the PL season? It comes across as highly insensitive given all the dire problems people are now facing on a daily basis. Greed pure and simple.

    What really finished it for me was the Barcelona players refusing to accept a pay cut to a mere £100,000 or £200,000 a week, for the time being. With many of their compatriots in terrible trouble it just shows how far these guys are up their own backsides.

    Once this crisis is finally over I wonder if it is going to result in a lot of people viewing a lot of things differently. The super rich would be well-advised to maintain low profiles for the foreseeable future .

    Because if the PL do not finish the PL season they will owe the broadcasters around £750 million.
    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.
    I suspect the clubs with sugar daddies and those who are well run with little external debt will be fine, it'll be the ones that are up to their eyeballs in debt and are dependent on revenues to service debts that are buggered.
    Of course, some sugar daddies are themselves massively overlevered... or massively overlevered *and* dependent on high commodity prices.

    It would be a real shame to see some Premier League clubs go bust. I'd feel gutted if one or two went to the wall...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    People have an emotional attachment to football clubs that they don’t have to airlines. Letting Virgin Atlantic go bust would disappoint a few. Letting Everton go bust would devastate tens of thousands.

    But it isn't Everton that would go bust - it's those unfortunate enough to own the club when the music stopped.
    Spot on.

    Rangers went bust.

    Rangers still exists.

    The whole point about being a shareholder, is that you're first against the wall. That's the deal implicit in capitalism. You get the spoils, but there has to be an element of risk.

    I feel a lot happier about bailing out workers than I do about bailing out Richard Branson or the Glazers.
    Generally the shareholders take the losses when their failures caused the losses. Not when they're shut down by the government. If the shareholders go bust due to government actions then it puts a perverse incentive to the shareholders to frustrate or seek to circumvent the government actions - is that what we want to encourage?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.

    I make that argument about Virgin Atlantic.

    And I make that argument because if you can't ever go bankrupt, because the government will bail you out, then it is an optimal strategy to lever up as much as possible.

    The reason why wealth inequality has increased in the last ten years is because of wealthy people being able to engage in a massive carry trade: borrow at 3%, invest at 5%. Free money. Oodles of free money. The more you leverage yourself, the richer you become.

    If Virgin Atlantic go bust, it is shit for people who have loads of Virgin miles, like me. It's shit for Richard Branson. It's shit for the CEO, and various other people who own shares.

    But it does not affect the productive power of the economy. Someone will come along, and buy Virgin Atlantic out of the administrators or recievers.

    And even if they don't, then someone will lease some planes (they already exist) and setup a new route from LA to London. The amount of work done in the economy will be the same.

    What we will have done, though, is make it clear to the wealthy that they cannot engage, at the public's expense, in a massive carry trade that does nothing for the real economy.

    Bailing out Virgin Atlantic is corporatism. It stunk in the 1970s. And it stinks now. It doesn't save jobs, it merely encourages the uber-wealthy to borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
    Thank you Res100, totally agree.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    alterego said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Too big to fail?

    Let them go bankrupt, the stadiums will still exist and the demand for football will still be there. The best players will get jobs with the new clubs once normality resumes.

    That is the argument some on here are making for the rest of the economy, for the small business owner and the high street shop. So why not football as well.

    I make that argument about Virgin Atlantic.

    And I make that argument because if you can't ever go bankrupt, because the government will bail you out, then it is an optimal strategy to lever up as much as possible.

    The reason why wealth inequality has increased in the last ten years is because of wealthy people being able to engage in a massive carry trade: borrow at 3%, invest at 5%. Free money. Oodles of free money. The more you leverage yourself, the richer you become.

    If Virgin Atlantic go bust, it is shit for people who have loads of Virgin miles, like me. It's shit for Richard Branson. It's shit for the CEO, and various other people who own shares.

    But it does not affect the productive power of the economy. Someone will come along, and buy Virgin Atlantic out of the administrators or recievers.

    And even if they don't, then someone will lease some planes (they already exist) and setup a new route from LA to London. The amount of work done in the economy will be the same.

    What we will have done, though, is make it clear to the wealthy that they cannot engage, at the public's expense, in a massive carry trade that does nothing for the real economy.

    Bailing out Virgin Atlantic is corporatism. It stunk in the 1970s. And it stinks now. It doesn't save jobs, it merely encourages the uber-wealthy to borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
    A fair point.

    I don't think the productive power of the economy will be damaged by, say, Man U going to the wall, either.

    Surely the biggest swindle is the banks being able to borrow money at nothing or next to nothing, then loaning it out to the likes of you or me at 12% (for a business loan - 40% on an agreed overdraft!). I don't understand why the government doesn't loan or even give people the money directly.
    Banks are making nothing like this NET
    Agreed. The banks are carrying the bad debt risk here are they not?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting to know what the stats for Italy is. The anecdotal on the ground reporting doesn't give the indication that it is anywhere near 50%. Seems lot of reports where basically they say that bloke other there is the only one in 2 weeks, all the rest are dead or in exactly the same state.

    The report does also seem to suggest that a good proportion of those 50% that have died, the doctors didn't think they would make it when they were admitted.

    It seems more they are indicating as the tsunami comes, the really old, the really frail, the really sick, all the evidence says have no chance and there will be triage rather than have them on a ventilator for 3 weeks with no likely improvement.
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