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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UK coronavirus death toll up 381 in a single day – the worst y

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UK coronavirus death toll up 381 in a single day – the worst yet

UPDATE on coronavirus (#COVID19) testing in the UK:As of 9am 31 March, a total of 143,186 people have been tested of which 25,150 tested positive.As of 5pm on 30 March, of those hospitalised in the UK, 1,789 have sadly died. pic.twitter.com/ctiAd1ty9p

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273
  • Options
    Poor Peter Hitchens.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,844
    edited March 2020
    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    Poor Peter Hitchens.

    Has he got it?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,972
    Mr. Eagles, reminds me of when Rimmer's on trial.

    Being Rimmer is his crime. It is also his punishment.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    On the mortality expectations for the Blitz, as it happens I'm in the middle of reading a very interesting book about the lead-up to WWII:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Churchill-Appeasing-Hitler-British/dp/1785904752

    (As it happens, the author is a very good friend of my brother-in-law, and so I know him quite well).

    There was a very strong belief in the mantra that 'the bomber will always get through', and a lot of planning was done on this basis. So they thought cities within range would be entirely defenceless. It was one reason why Chamberlain was so stubbornly set on appeasement. Of course it turned out quite differently; fighters were much faster than the bombers and the bombers didn't always get through, far from it. Daytime bombing was soon found to be impractically dangerous, and night-time bombing was difficult.

    I might have a read of that, I enjoy reading about that time period.

    Will 'The bomber always get though' well yes and no.

    It was defiantly the prevailing theory in most places both the UK and to some extent Germany in the late 1930s. and may explain why fighters where to some extent neglected, relative to bombers.

    A lot of books I read tent to ridicule that thought, but looking at the numbers the bombers nearly always did get through. in the Battle of Britten, on a good day Fighter command could shot down 3% on average it was a bit below 2%. so largely the statement is correct. the problem for the bombers, was they were not as effective as expected and as popularly remembered and needed to fly a lot of missions, to achieve there aim, a 2% change of being shot down is manageable as a one off, a 2% change every mission ones or possibly twice a day for weeks or months is something else. for Command, on top of this was a damaged % normally close to or slightly over the shot down % so 5% a day was not unusual.

    The problem with the 'boomer will always get though' is not that the stament is totally incorrect, but that it focuses on one mission not a campaign, and there for not a helpful planing focuses.

    A bit like saying, 99.8% of healthy people will recover OK form COVID even if they need an ICU Bed, forgetting that this % may not hold when there are lots of people wanting to get in to ICU beds.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    US death figure now over 3000. 3 in every 4 Americans are in isolation.
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    Totally agree.
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    There was too much fanfare yesterday about the measures already working because much of the public aren’t going to be experts in exponential growth !

    They’ll see today’s horrible death numbers and wonder what the hell is going on . Not sure these daily briefings are really warranted especially as the governments advisers aren’t normally used to this level of media scrutiny.

    And sometimes don’t realize that what they say even if true and understandable in science quarters can be misinterpreted by the wider public .
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited March 2020
    The new figures mean the UK has had the biggest increase in Covid 19 deaths in the last 24 hours in the world after Spain.

    We have also had the 4th biggest increase in Covid 19 cases after the USA, Spain and Iran (with Germany, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands next on the list)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Doesn't this now include deaths outside of hospitals?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    It is what he does best. That is why perpetual opposition is his goal. What an absolute tool!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,598
    Cuomo complaining that New York Hospitals are not a coherent body - divided up between multiple private hospitals and public hospitals split between NYC, Long Island, Westchester County etc. He's basically calling for a "National" Health Service - "one coordinated system" - I expect Trump will react with his usual mature, calm and thoughtful reflection....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316
    BigRich said:

    On the mortality expectations for the Blitz, as it happens I'm in the middle of reading a very interesting book about the lead-up to WWII:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Churchill-Appeasing-Hitler-British/dp/1785904752

    (As it happens, the author is a very good friend of my brother-in-law, and so I know him quite well).

    There was a very strong belief in the mantra that 'the bomber will always get through', and a lot of planning was done on this basis. So they thought cities within range would be entirely defenceless. It was one reason why Chamberlain was so stubbornly set on appeasement. Of course it turned out quite differently; fighters were much faster than the bombers and the bombers didn't always get through, far from it. Daytime bombing was soon found to be impractically dangerous, and night-time bombing was difficult.

    I might have a read of that, I enjoy reading about that time period.

    Will 'The bomber always get though' well yes and no.

    It was defiantly the prevailing theory in most places both the UK and to some extent Germany in the late 1930s. and may explain why fighters where to some extent neglected, relative to bombers.

    A lot of books I read tent to ridicule that thought, but looking at the numbers the bombers nearly always did get through. in the Battle of Britten, on a good day Fighter command could shot down 3% on average it was a bit below 2%. so largely the statement is correct. the problem for the bombers, was they were not as effective as expected and as popularly remembered and needed to fly a lot of missions, to achieve there aim, a 2% change of being shot down is manageable as a one off, a 2% change every mission ones or possibly twice a day for weeks or months is something else. for Command, on top of this was a damaged % normally close to or slightly over the shot down % so 5% a day was not unusual.

    The problem with the 'boomer will always get though' is not that the stament is totally incorrect, but that it focuses on one mission not a campaign, and there for not a helpful planing focuses.

    A bit like saying, 99.8% of healthy people will recover OK form COVID even if they need an ICU Bed, forgetting that this % may not hold when there are lots of people wanting to get in to ICU beds.
    Without radar combined with complex control system introduced by Dowding, the bomber would always have got through.

    The RAF system meant that nearly 100% of the scrambled fighters ended up finding enemies to shoot at - something which the calculations previously had dismissed as impossible.

    This had an important effect on the German bomber crews - they were *alwys* attacked. On virtually every mission.

    Then you had people like Sailor Malan - who like to find a damaged bomber on the way back, and shoot it up - avoiding the engines and pilot. So that when it crash landed back in France, the ground crews would have to hose out the remains of the crew.....
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited March 2020
    As the deaths edge up in the UK, as they inevitably will, the important statistic to home in on is the number in ICU and on ventilators. This is where Italy, Spain and France are all feeling the strain massively despite heroic efforts to expand capacity. I hope the UK experts are on to this as of course wrt ventilators. Have also seen reports that Germany is bracing for large increases in deaths. There have, I believe, been big spikes in Belgium and Netherlands too. I think the next 3/4 weeks are going to get quite scary all over the continent.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I may get this thing and it may kill me.

    I live on my own and am pretty fit, mid-50's, female. So I have fair odds. But I've also applied a Maslow hierarchy of needs to my life. What's my most basic need? The answer is not to get the virus. If I have to sacrifice other 'needs' above that one at the base then so be it.

    So I'm taking lockdown seriously, disinfecting everything that comes through my door, going out rarely and, when I do, I'm wearing full protective gear.

    It might not work and I might get the bloody thing, but that's just my approach. I also feel it's my responsibility to others.

    It's an obvious point but we need a vaccine and/or we need a cure. Until we get them no-one is safe.

    What a time, 'eh?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,114
    "One thing is for sure the more old people are losing their lives the more people are taking note of the government warnings."

    Shouldn't that read "One thing is for sure the more old people are losing their lives the more old people are taking note of the government warnings."?

  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    tlg86 said:

    Doesn't this now include deaths outside of hospitals?

    no I dont believe so
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    HYUFD said:

    The new figures mean the UK has had the biggest increase in Covid 19 deaths in the last 24 hours in the world after Spain.
    We have also had the 5th biggest increase in Covid 19 cases after the USA, Spain, Iran and France (and just ahead of Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    The notion of a league table of Coronavirus deaths is neither tasteful or helpful. Report the figures and use them for productive reference by all means.
  • Options
    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    edited March 2020

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    Of course. Why do you think I have been cacking myself for the past 13 days? I am extremely familiar with the age-adjusted mortality rates. The risk for younger adults is low but not negligible.

    The Chinese didn't lockdown a whole city region just to save 70+ year olds. The Italians haven't, the Spanish haven't, we haven't. When the reality that this virus is deadly in all age-groups smacks people in the face, then they will wake up. Until then we have to listen to their drivel.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited March 2020
    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    I love the idea of a 'boris break'. BTW Do we have any reports of how he and Hancock are doing? Oh I just thought could we not rename the breaks 'Hancock's half hours' :smiley:
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,114
    HYUFD said:

    The new figures mean the UK has had the biggest increase in Covid 19 deaths in the last 24 hours in the world after Spain.

    We have also had the 4th biggest increase in Covid 19 cases after the USA, Spain and Iran (with Germany, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands next on the list)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Apart from countries like Italy and France that haven't reported yet!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    I love the idea of a 'boris break'. BTW Do we have any reports of how he and Hancock are doing? Oh I just thought could we not rename the breaks 'Hancock's half hours' :smiley:
    Well enough for a Cabinet meeting this morning. Not sure how many days he's got left locked away.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,960
    BigRich said:

    On the mortality expectations for the Blitz, as it happens I'm in the middle of reading a very interesting book about the lead-up to WWII:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Churchill-Appeasing-Hitler-British/dp/1785904752

    (As it happens, the author is a very good friend of my brother-in-law, and so I know him quite well).

    There was a very strong belief in the mantra that 'the bomber will always get through', and a lot of planning was done on this basis. So they thought cities within range would be entirely defenceless. It was one reason why Chamberlain was so stubbornly set on appeasement. Of course it turned out quite differently; fighters were much faster than the bombers and the bombers didn't always get through, far from it. Daytime bombing was soon found to be impractically dangerous, and night-time bombing was difficult.

    I might have a read of that, I enjoy reading about that time period.

    Will 'The bomber always get though' well yes and no.

    It was defiantly the prevailing theory in most places both the UK and to some extent Germany in the late 1930s. and may explain why fighters where to some extent neglected, relative to bombers.

    A lot of books I read tent to ridicule that thought, but looking at the numbers the bombers nearly always did get through. in the Battle of Britten, on a good day Fighter command could shot down 3% on average it was a bit below 2%. so largely the statement is correct. the problem for the bombers, was they were not as effective as expected and as popularly remembered and needed to fly a lot of missions, to achieve there aim, a 2% change of being shot down is manageable as a one off, a 2% change every mission ones or possibly twice a day for weeks or months is something else. for Command, on top of this was a damaged % normally close to or slightly over the shot down % so 5% a day was not unusual.

    The problem with the 'boomer will always get though' is not that the stament is totally incorrect, but that it focuses on one mission not a campaign, and there for not a helpful planing focuses.

    A bit like saying, 99.8% of healthy people will recover OK form COVID even if they need an ICU Bed, forgetting that this % may not hold when there are lots of people wanting to get in to ICU beds.
    Those figures don't seem to square with these, from Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure they're right:' Bomber Command crews suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4 percent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war.'
    While 'killed' didn't necessarily mean their plane was shot down, being a PoW did.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
    If you have high blood pressure like me you're better not knowing!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,179
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    I love the idea of a 'boris break'. BTW Do we have any reports of how he and Hancock are doing? Oh I just thought could we not rename the breaks 'Hancock's half hours' :smiley:
    Well enough for a Cabinet meeting this morning. Not sure how many days he's got left locked away.
    Out on Friday this week iirc. A GP on the Labour team has written to him to say he should stay another 7 days as WHO now say 14 days isolation with symptoms.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
    If you have high blood pressure like me you're better not knowing!
    Fortunately my blood pressure is bob-on!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,005
    edited March 2020

    BigRich said:

    On the mortality expectations for the Blitz, as it happens I'm in the middle of reading a very interesting book about the lead-up to WWII:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Churchill-Appeasing-Hitler-British/dp/1785904752

    (As it happens, the author is a very good friend of my brother-in-law, and so I know him quite well).

    There was a very strong belief in the mantra that 'the bomber will always get through', and a lot of planning was done on this basis. So they thought cities within range would be entirely defenceless. It was one reason why Chamberlain was so stubbornly set on appeasement. Of course it turned out quite differently; fighters were much faster than the bombers and the bombers didn't always get through, far from it. Daytime bombing was soon found to be impractically dangerous, and night-time bombing was difficult.

    I might have a read of that, I enjoy reading about that time period.

    Will 'The bomber always get though' well yes and no.

    It was defiantly the prevailing theory in most places both the UK and to some extent Germany in the late 1930s. and may explain why fighters where to some extent neglected, relative to bombers.

    A lot of books I read tent to ridicule that thought, but looking at the numbers the bombers nearly always did get through. in the Battle of Britten, on a good day Fighter command could shot down 3% on average it was a bit below 2%. so largely the statement is correct. the problem for the bombers, was they were not as effective as expected and as popularly remembered and needed to fly a lot of missions, to achieve there aim, a 2% change of being shot down is manageable as a one off, a 2% change every mission ones or possibly twice a day for weeks or months is something else. for Command, on top of this was a damaged % normally close to or slightly over the shot down % so 5% a day was not unusual.

    The problem with the 'boomer will always get though' is not that the stament is totally incorrect, but that it focuses on one mission not a campaign, and there for not a helpful planing focuses.

    A bit like saying, 99.8% of healthy people will recover OK form COVID even if they need an ICU Bed, forgetting that this % may not hold when there are lots of people wanting to get in to ICU beds.
    Without radar combined with complex control system introduced by Dowding, the bomber would always have got through.

    The RAF system meant that nearly 100% of the scrambled fighters ended up finding enemies to shoot at - something which the calculations previously had dismissed as impossible.

    This had an important effect on the German bomber crews - they were *alwys* attacked. On virtually every mission.

    Then you had people like Sailor Malan - who like to find a damaged bomber on the way back, and shoot it up - avoiding the engines and pilot. So that when it crash landed back in France, the ground crews would have to hose out the remains of the crew.....
    Bloody Saffers.

    Call me a sentimentalist but I think I preferred the lads who felt a twinge of discomfort while trying to kill their fellow airmen, or simply didn't think about it as young men tend not to.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161

    I may get this thing and it may kill me.

    I live on my own and am pretty fit, mid-50's, female. So I have fair odds. But I've also applied a Maslow hierarchy of needs to my life. What's my most basic need? The answer is not to get the virus. If I have to sacrifice other 'needs' above that one at the base then so be it.

    So I'm taking lockdown seriously, disinfecting everything that comes through my door, going out rarely and, when I do, I'm wearing full protective gear.

    It might not work and I might get the bloody thing, but that's just my approach. I also feel it's my responsibility to others.

    It's an obvious point but we need a vaccine and/or we need a cure. Until we get them no-one is safe.

    What a time, 'eh?

    You will not get it - unless it decides it likes a challenge.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Cuomo complaining that New York Hospitals are not a coherent body - divided up between multiple private hospitals and public hospitals split between NYC, Long Island, Westchester County etc. He's basically calling for a "National" Health Service - "one coordinated system" - I expect Trump will react with his usual mature, calm and thoughtful reflection....

    The big metric here is likely to be about how many beds, doctors, ICU beds and so on and in this regarded NY and the USA are better than almost anywhere else.

    the urge to control everything is understandable but wrong. IMO, letting dicition making be local and letting people on the ground change policy when appropriate with out heaving to get permition form the governor is a strength not a weakness.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Tory PMs may come and go, but Corbynites will always lead the opposition.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    36.5%, if I've calculated it correctly, is a new high in the +ve rate for the test. Bearing in mind a false positive rate of 25% has been quoted, it would suggest almost half of those tested have the virus.

    Five days in a row with the positive test rate above 30%.

    False negatives (people testing negative, but who do have disease) not false positives at 25%. As the test is for COVID19 RNA, there is probably a very low false positive rate (test positive, but really dont have it).
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/comparative-accuracy-of-oropharyngeal-and-nasopharyngeal-swabs-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19/
    Worth a read of this from the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine.
    Was a Chinese source suggesting there were issues when people lived in the same space as someone who was infected - swab might find get RNA from viruses that got in the nose etc but hadn't actually caused an infection. This got a bit of an airing on PB but seems the paper was withdrawn.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32133832/
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    Well complaints, if merited, will be of some use, but if he is talking up a plan where there is one that's pretty petty.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980

    HYUFD said:

    The new figures mean the UK has had the biggest increase in Covid 19 deaths in the last 24 hours in the world after Spain.
    We have also had the 5th biggest increase in Covid 19 cases after the USA, Spain, Iran and France (and just ahead of Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    The notion of a league table of Coronavirus deaths is neither tasteful or helpful. Report the figures and use them for productive reference by all means.
    To an extent it is eg countries who are seeing lower reported rises like South Korea and Germany are models to follow
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,179

    Tory PMs may come and go, but Corbynites will always lead the opposition.
    Saturday can't come quick enough so that we can see the back of this idiot.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
    If you have high blood pressure like me you're better not knowing!
    Just seen it! What a total spanner! He'll be old one day, in fact he is no spring- chicken as we speak!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled

    Its past 10k already.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,598
    Thread:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1245014379063541762?s=20

    Tomkins supports most of ScotGov's proposals, except for suspension of trial by jury, and exempting ScotGov from FoI requests.
  • Options
    ABZABZ Posts: 441
    felix said:

    As the deaths edge up in the UK, as they inevitably will, the important statistic to home in on is the number in ICU and on ventilators. This is where Italy, Spain and France are all feeling the strain massively despite heroic efforts to expand capacity. I hope the UK experts are on to this as of course wrt ventilators. Have also seen reports that Germany is bracing for large increases in deaths. There have, I believe, been big spikes in Belgium and Netherlands too. I think the next 3/4 weeks are going to get quite scary all over the continent.

    I agree with all of this bar the timeline - I think the next 2 weeks are going to be the worst and that most places will have peaked at, or just after, Easter. Moreover, the maximum number of new cases in the UK should peak (and accordingly the demand upon the NHS) early next week. After that, it should level off and then get better. Still very tough though.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The new figures mean the UK has had the biggest increase in Covid 19 deaths in the last 24 hours in the world after Spain.
    We have also had the 5th biggest increase in Covid 19 cases after the USA, Spain, Iran and France (and just ahead of Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    The notion of a league table of Coronavirus deaths is neither tasteful or helpful. Report the figures and use them for productive reference by all means.
    To an extent it is eg countries who are seeing lower reported rises like South Korea and Germany are models to follow
    It is ranking them in order of fatalities I object to. I see no statistical modelling purpose for listing unweighted raw numbers.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited March 2020
    I wonder how many of the viruses now exist. Thousands of trillions by now, surely?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,114
    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121

    Tory PMs may come and go, but Corbynites will always lead the opposition.
    I laughed heartily as I have assumed you included Brown, Blair, Callaghan and even Wilson within your statement.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion is allowed.

  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
    If you have high blood pressure like me you're better not knowing!
    Fortunately my blood pressure is bob-on!
    I've got mine back under control after a very wobbly couple of weeks. Last night it was actually just below 120/80! Next stage, I'm going to brave going out for an hour's walk later. Late at night, mind, none of this daytime madness.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316
    edited March 2020
    Vicki Young, who was just on BBC24 seems to be actually able to thinks well as find and present interesting information. Why can't she be asking questions of the government?
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion of the science and impact is allowed.

    As must corbyn then
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,844
    Im off now next time you hear from me i will be 60 and up to my nose in Bit

    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled

    Its past 10k already.
    Its not just look at the actual numbers
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    nichomar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion of the science and impact is allowed.

    As must corbyn then
    Corybn is welcome to his opinion and should be heard.

    As will Keith Starmers.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,339
    edited March 2020
    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    if you believe the Chinese figures. or anybody's figures for that matter... I don't doubt people have died, but is the cause of death always correct....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    I think we can safely dismiss the Chinese statistics entirely.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121

    Vicki Young, who was just on BBC24 seems to be actually able to thinks well as find and present interesting information. Why can't she be asking questions of the government?

    I suspect her boss and Minister for Propaganda, Laura Kuenssberg will have something to say about that.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    If you believe Chinese figures
    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status/1244673648717213696?s=20
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    RobD said:

    I wonder how many of the viruses now exist. Thousands of trillions by now, surely?

    Does anyone know what you call a single virus entity?

    It isn't an organism or a cell. Is it just called a virus?
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    I think we can safely dismiss the Chinese statistics entirely.
    China will end up with the lowest fatality rate per head of population by a factor of 100+

    The wonders of communism eh ?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,305

    Tory PMs may come and go, but Corbynites will always lead the opposition.
    Saturday can't come quick enough so that we can see the back of this idiot.
    Which of Corbyn's points do you object to and how quickly can you reverse ferret when the government does them anyway?
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Foxy said:

    36.5%, if I've calculated it correctly, is a new high in the +ve rate for the test. Bearing in mind a false positive rate of 25% has been quoted, it would suggest almost half of those tested have the virus.

    Five days in a row with the positive test rate above 30%.

    False negatives (people testing negative, but who do have disease) not false positives at 25%. As the test is for COVID19 RNA, there is probably a very low false positive rate (test positive, but really dont have it).
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/comparative-accuracy-of-oropharyngeal-and-nasopharyngeal-swabs-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19/
    Worth a read of this from the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine.
    Was a Chinese source suggesting there were issues when people lived in the same space as someone who was infected - swab might find get RNA from viruses that got in the nose etc but hadn't actually caused an infection. This got a bit of an airing on PB but seems the paper was withdrawn.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32133832/
    To be clear - should have said this - the CEBM research reckoned there should be great caution about false negatives and positives for the current testing due to the lack of high quality studies on the issue.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    I haven't heard what that plank has said today.
    If you have high blood pressure like me you're better not knowing!
    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    Yes but there are so many of them and they are forever on the news 'reviewing papers' etc. Both on left and right. They add so little.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316

    Vicki Young, who was just on BBC24 seems to be actually able to thinks well as find and present interesting information. Why can't she be asking questions of the government?

    I suspect her boss and Minister for Propaganda, Laura Kuenssberg will have something to say about that.
    No, it's because she's not playing Gotcha! She seems to think that journalism is about finding information and presenting it clearly. What a maroon, eh?
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Gove going for the bore the public into submission approach.

    Brings in a grey man in a grey suit with a grey voice.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    felix said:

    I love the idea of a 'boris break'. BTW Do we have any reports of how he and Hancock are doing? Oh I just thought could we not rename the breaks 'Hancock's half hours' :smiley:

    Hancock's Half Hours works better. But you know "Boris". Anything whatsoever to do with him has to be named in his honour.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion is allowed.

    Young is an ignorant former druggie. Anyone who takes any notice of what he says is almost as daft as he is.
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    There is a God after all . What a welcome tonic . Although apparently the UK invite was lost in the post/ the UK left the EU and we can’t stand anything with Europe in the name/ we missed the deadline because the email invite ended up in the spam folder .

    Not sure which excuse will be wheeled out !
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion is allowed.

    Young is an ignorant former druggie. Anyone who takes any notice of what he says is almost as daft as he is.
    But he should be allowed to give his opinion in a free society no ?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    There's a plateau cos the number tested has plateaued!
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,114
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    I think we can safely dismiss the Chinese statistics entirely.
    Please yourself.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italy

    Active cases: 77.635 (+2.107 net)
    Deaths: 12.428 (+837)
    Healed: 15.729 (+1.109)

    Total cases: 105.792 (+4.053)
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Im off now next time you hear from me i will be 60 and up to my nose in Bit

    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled

    Its past 10k already.
    Its not just look at the actual numbers
    Yes it is.

    Don't mix up number of tests with number of people - many people who get tested get tested more than once.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,114
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    If you believe Chinese figures
    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status/1244673648717213696?s=20
    "Sources".
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161

    Does anyone know what you call a single virus entity?

    It isn't an organism or a cell. Is it just called a virus?

    I don't know but this reminds me of the single hair that I have on my chest. That has a name. I call it Tony. Because it's Tony one I've got.

    Sorry.

    Lockdown.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion is allowed.

    Young is an ignorant former druggie. Anyone who takes any notice of what he says is almost as daft as he is.
    But he should be allowed to give his opinion in a free society no ?
    Just as all of us are. However there is no reason why his opinion should be given any prominence by the media.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    If you believe Chinese figures
    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status/1244673648717213696?s=20
    "Sources".
    https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1244752488009543680?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1244347639006547968?s=20
    https://twitter.com/steve_hanke/status/1244687837460455431?s=20
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,447
    @Cycledree Gardening Corner (6)

    I am looking for a shrub with early flowers to go into the bed below to peak over the wall in a few years.

    The wall is about 1.5m, and there is wind shelter but the planting will be on the North side of the wall.

    Any suggestions are most welcome.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1245022294818291713
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316

    There's a plateau cos the number tested has plateaued!

    The plateau is in hospital admitted cases.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    QM2 update: the passenger who tested positive has been tested again and is now negative; in the absence of symptoms they are assuming the first test was a false positive. Passengers have been allowed out of their cabins and the ship is preparing to dock in Durban for provisions and fuel.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    506968 tests in Italy so far. Up from 477359 as yesterday
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    This is why the Toby Young comments are so stupid. Really I sometimes despair at the quality of journalism in the UK.
    Young is a columnist, he barely qualifies as a journalist.

    He's basically a bloke with a blog who's got it syndicated in a national paper. No one would give a shit what he said if he didn't have the prestige of being published in a paper.
    His opinion is valid and discussion is welcome.

    We don't want to get to a Man made global warming situation were a group tells us no discussion is allowed.

    Young is an ignorant former druggie. Anyone who takes any notice of what he says is almost as daft as he is.
    But he should be allowed to give his opinion in a free society no ?
    Just as all of us are. However there is no reason why his opinion should be given any prominence by the media.
    Media is driven by sales, clicks etc.

    If Mr Young were receiving none , outlets would not use them.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    IanB2 said:

    QM2 update: the passenger who tested positive has been tested again and is now negative; in the absence of symptoms they are assuming the first test was a false positive. Passengers have been allowed out of their cabins and the ship is preparing to dock in Durban for provisions and fuel.

    People are still on cruises?
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Ah, first for a change.

    The figure seems to have been revised upwards to 393. Even more disturbing is that according to Sky they included 28 patients with no underlying health conditions, one of whom was a 19 year old.

    This is grim, grim, grim.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-367-die-in-england-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-11966273

    Many young people are dying from this around the world. A 12 year old girl in Belgium today too. If you infected every adolescent and under 30 with this virus in order to develop herd immunity, you would still be looking at many of them dying even if the % is a lot less than for the elderly. That part never seems to get mentioned. One of the biggest global communication mistakes early on was that this was just a disease of the elderly.
    I've been discussing this at work quite a bit this past week, mainly since I'm currently talking to one of my few life insurance clients and we needed to put together something in the way of coherent advice (tricky, given how fast things are moving).

    Anyway, the current understanding seems to be that this disease basically works as a multiplicative scale to your general risk factor. Current best guess is that it exposes you to a year's worth of mortality during the month after you start showing symptoms. In life actuarial terms, qx (probability of dying in the next year, as a function of age) is roughly doubled. So a 30 year old might have a 0.2% (1 in 500) chance of dying this year, instead of 0.1% (1 in 1000). Whereas for a 60 year old, it increases from say 1% to 2%.

    Therefore, although it can affect anyone, in overall number terms the vast majority of deaths will be among the elderly. The profile of deaths by age band for the UK as a whole during 2020 should be similar to other years, excluding hard-to-model knock-on effects like improvements to road safety and better air quality. Therefore, in proportional terms, it's clearly wrong to say this is a disease of the elderly, but in absolute terms, it's a bit more murky. The issue is probably that people tend to underestimate the rate at which younger people die - it happens infrequently, but usually there's some cause (road or industrial accident, underlying medical condition) that allows people to file it away under "exception - doesn't apply generally".

    This is substantially different to the previous major pandemic to hit Europe (Spanish Flu in 1919 onwards), which showed more as an additive increase to mortality - so everyone in the UK had say a 0.6% chance of dying from it, irrespective of age or other risk factors. This would have changed the profile of deaths considerably, since it sits on top of the normal death pattern which is predominantly older people.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    It's a salutary thought that this daily death rate is more than three times the peak death rate in China (based on confirmed cases) and that the number of confirmed cases in the UK is only about a third of the number of confirmed cases in China at that time.

    If you believe Chinese figures
    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status/1244673648717213696?s=20
    "Sources".
    https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1244752488009543680?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1244347639006547968?s=20
    https://twitter.com/steve_hanke/status/1244687837460455431?s=20
    Nick Palmer to the green courtesy phone, Nick Palmer....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    That will be because the ventilator has arrived....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    MattW said:

    @Cycledree Gardening Corner (6)

    I am looking for a shrub with early flowers to go into the bed below to peak over the wall in a few years.

    The wall is about 1.5m, and there is wind shelter but the planting will be on the North side of the wall.

    Any suggestions are most welcome.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1245022294818291713

    Whatever the gardening question I have a standard response:

    Plant something native that is good for wildlife.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,844
    edited March 2020

    Im off now next time you hear from me i will be 60 and up to my nose in Bit

    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled

    Its past 10k already.
    Its not just look at the actual numbers
    Yes it is.

    Don't mix up number of tests with number of people - many people who get tested get tested more than once.
    Where is your source official numbers do not show that 8,400 released today for Monday for example

    Friday and Saturday are here too both below 10,000 (9114 & 8278) no matter how you measure it.

    Show your evidence / workings

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-ministers-accused-of-overstating-scale-of-coronavirus-testing
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,357

    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    That will be because the ventilator has arrived....
    Singular? NHS so cash strapped we're sharing one?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,844

    Im off now next time you hear from me i will be 60 and up to my nose in Bit

    3rd week tomorrow since

    "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000," he said.

    Presumably misspoke or misled

    Its past 10k already.
    Its not just look at the actual numbers
    Yes it is.

    Don't mix up number of tests with number of people - many people who get tested get tested more than once.
    0/10 see me
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593

    There's a plateau cos the number tested has plateaued!

    The plateau is in hospital admitted cases.
    It is in positive tests.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    kinabalu said:

    It is bad but the trend could be worse. I feel quite optimistic today. I definitely sense that social distancing has taken root. Just got back a few minutes ago from my Boris Break and people are staying well away from each other. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. The virus will not be spreading so easily now. It will be hacked off and on the retreat. That will take some time to work through into the numbers but I think that one month from now we in the UK will be breathing a little easier.

    That will be because the ventilator has arrived....
    Singular? NHS so cash strapped we're sharing one?
    Apparently you can if I heard the news right
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,844

    Italy

    Active cases: 77.635 (+2.107 net)
    Deaths: 12.428 (+837)
    Healed: 15.729 (+1.109)

    Total cases: 105.792 (+4.053)

    So the UK has now overtaken Italy in terms of new active cases net of healed.

    Are our numbers of healed being under reported?
This discussion has been closed.