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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Grand Entrance. Sir Keir Starmer’s electoral challenges

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Grand Entrance. Sir Keir Starmer’s electoral challenges

It’s the honour and privilege of my life to be elected as Leader of the Labour Party. I will lead this great party into a new era, with confidence and hope, so that when the time comes, we can serve our country again – in government. pic.twitter.com/F4X088FTYY

Read the full story here


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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Morning.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    New Jersey’s unemployment system is crashing under the stain, apparently....

    https://twitter.com/manicode/status/1246497036389793792
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Coming back to Alistair's final point - the M4 corridor would be a good place for Labour to start really asking what voters want....heading west from Slough all the way into S Wales there is literally a a swathe of seats that need to tumble into their hands if they are serious about changing. KS needs to shift the London bias pretty sharpish.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    You highlight Bedford which is my seat and on General Election night the exit poll projection had it is a 99% certain Conservative gain. Labour held it with the smallest majority it had on the night of 145 which would have been a bit smaller if I hadn't tactically voted. I think it ought to be classified as a part metropolitan seat largely down to the large proportion of the population that commute to London and the very good train services, 6 an hour some of them taking less than 40 minutes. The borough has an elected mayor which has never been held by the Tories in the six mayoral elections that have been held. In the local elections last May not a single Council seat in the parliamentary constituency went Tory
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    I think it’s a very good article.... but I’m struggling slightly to see what this might mean in the face of the pandemic.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Well China certainly seems to have relaxed its lockdown, but how sensible is this ???

    https://twitter.com/QiZHAI/status/1246632280749039617
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I thought this was a very interesting article.

    I’ve seen a least 2 stories now (the Guardian/LG story and the previous UAE/ventilator story) on “why won’t the government take the masks that I’ve sourced from them.

    There is a very unpleasant trading environment out there and I’m glad the government isn’t participating

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2020/03/30/i-spent-a-day-in-the-coronavirus-driven-feeding-frenzy-of-n95-mask-sellers-and-buyers-and-this-is-what-i-learned/#43556f9956d4
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited April 2020
    FPT @TheValiant

    The post of Leader of the Conservative and Unionist party was created in 1922 (hence ‘the 1922 committee’). You are correct that from then until 2001 every Tory leader had been PM. By contrast six Labour leaders - Henderson, Lansbury, Gaitskell, Foot, Kinnock and Smith - had not been.

    Prior to 1922 there had been a small number of semi-official leaders who had not been PM, notably Austen Chamberlain (Leader in the Commons 1921-22) Lord Lansdowne (Leader in the Lords 1903-1916) and Sir Stafford Northcote (Leader in the Commons 1876-1885). However, they were not officially party leaders.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    TGOHF666 said:

    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.

    If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.

    If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
    Somehow I knew it would be you raisin that question.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    You highlight Bedford which is my seat and on General Election night the exit poll projection had it is a 99% certain Conservative gain. Labour held it with the smallest majority it had on the night of 145 which would have been a bit smaller if I hadn't tactically voted. I think it ought to be classified as a part metropolitan seat largely down to the large proportion of the population that commute to London and the very good train services, 6 an hour some of them taking less than 40 minutes. The borough has an elected mayor which has never been held by the Tories in the six mayoral elections that have been held. In the local elections last May not a single Council seat in the parliamentary constituency went Tory

    Shame on you voting for an anti-Semitic party
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    The US CDC has not briefed in the last month....

    https://twitter.com/SamanthaVpi/status/1246615616074612736
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Charles said:

    I thought this was a very interesting article.

    I’ve seen a least 2 stories now (the Guardian/LG story and the previous UAE/ventilator story) on “why won’t the government take the masks that I’ve sourced from them.

    There is a very unpleasant trading environment out there and I’m glad the government isn’t participating

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2020/03/30/i-spent-a-day-in-the-coronavirus-driven-feeding-frenzy-of-n95-mask-sellers-and-buyers-and-this-is-what-i-learned/#43556f9956d4

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1246622359924203521
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Stroud is a funny one. It’s actually a faded not quite ex industrial seat (Renishaws remains, plus one factory in Cam producing baize for snooker tables, but with the closure of Listers in Dursley that’s about it). So you would expect it to reflect the northern or north midlands marginals. However, because Stroud itself is on a good railway line to London and the other major urban areas (Cam and Dursley and Wotton) have excellent transport links to Bristol it has become a sort of upper-middle-class dormitory. Lots of wealthy professors trying to prove how much they care about the planet by driving their electric vehicles into Filton every day. That’s how it’s the headquarters of those nutters in Extinction Rebellion, for example.

    But that leaves Labour with some issues. All the weight and experience on the Left in the area goes with the Greens (even David Drew, while out of Parliament, sat as an independent councillor associated with the Greens). Meanwhile the older working class is walking away from Labour, as it is in the North. So it faces the classic dilemma it has across the country in microcosm - workers or middle classes? And you can’t have both, because the workers earn their living in things the middle classes believe should be got rid of.

    If I am honest, I think Labour were fortunate to regain Stroud in 2017 and it was partly because Neil Carmichael is Richard Burgon on speed. They may find it very hard to do so again. The coalition they would need just doesn’t cohere.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.

    If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
    Perhaps a little whine will be fermented ?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited April 2020

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    The PM is the PM. I don’t see that there can be any “acting” about it. The leadership of the Conservative Party is irrelevant.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    He seems to be following the pattern of our own @GideonWise (who I hope is feeling better today). I think (hope) that’s the pattern of the disease rather than any sign it’s especially malignant in him.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Once travel is enabled, we should send a delegation to South Korea to learn everything we can about their response, and to invite them to send some of their people back to the UK to work with us on improving our approach should either this or another disease outbreak like it happen again.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited April 2020
    “Labour need to find a voice for parts of Britain that are not particularly affluent but don’t necessarily look like backdrops for Billy Elliot or Hovis adverts. But who knows, if they find that voice, perhaps they will be heard by voters in their former heartlands too? “

    So they chose a Human Rights Lawyer who did everything possible to thwart Brexit
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    The PM is the PM. I don’t see that there can be any “acting” about it. The leadership of the Conservative Party is irrelevant.
    Yes, but it’s like Harman or Beckett’s leadership of the Labour Party. They were both, legally, the leader. However, it was understood that it was a temporary arrangement pending a leadership election. I don’t think Betfair paid out on any bets on Harman succeeding Miliband.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    edited April 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Well China certainly seems to have relaxed its lockdown, but how sensible is this ???

    https://twitter.com/QiZHAI/status/1246632280749039617

    That will be the Peak District, 9.00 am on the day our lock-down ends....
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    isam said:

    “Labour need to find a voice for parts of Britain that are not particularly affluent but don’t necessarily look like backdrops for Billy Elliot or Hovis adverts. But who knows, if they find that voice, perhaps they will be heard by voters in their former heartlands too? “

    So they chose a Human Rights Lawyer who did everything possible to thwart Brexit

    We used to be told working class Labour voters held grudges against the Tories for generations, going all the way back to the Jarrow marchers. The Labour Party better hope that doesn't hold true for Brexit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    He's not been resting properly with all his working from home. I know Hancock was working through it, but he's younger and slimmer than Johnson.
    Rest is critical with this virus.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    The people I know who have had it, and the ones who have got into difficulties, have all found the nastiest part occurring later in the illness: 10 days on. Seems to be something connected to the lungs going into Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome.

    Professor John Wilson says: “The lining of the respiratory tree becomes injured, causing inflammation. This in turn irritates the nerves in the lining of the airway. Just a speck of dust can stimulate a cough.

    “But if this gets worse, it goes past just the lining of the airway and goes to the gas exchange units, which are at the end of the air passages.

    “If they become infected they respond by pouring out inflammatory material into the air sacs that are at the bottom of our lungs.”

    If the air sacs then become inflamed, Wilson says this causes an “outpouring of inflammatory material [fluid and inflammatory cells] into the lungs and we end up with pneumonia.”

    He says lungs that become filled with inflammatory material are unable to get enough oxygen to the bloodstream, reducing the body’s ability to take on oxygen and get rid of carbon dioxide.

    “That’s the usual cause of death with severe pneumonia,” Prof John Wilson, president-elect of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians and a respiratory physician.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/coronavirus-what-happens-to-peoples-lungs-acute-respiratory-when-they-get-covid-19

    And, yes, I very much wish Boris to get better.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.

    If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
    Somehow I knew it would be you raisin that question.
    They have bigger issues, currantly.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    It only means that he is not yet recovering, I think.

  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    The PM is the PM. I don’t see that there can be any “acting” about it. The leadership of the Conservative Party is irrelevant.
    Yes, but it’s like Harman or Beckett’s leadership of the Labour Party. They were both, legally, the leader. However, it was understood that it was a temporary arrangement pending a leadership election. I don’t think Betfair paid out on any bets on Harman succeeding Miliband.
    Were they? Or was the post vacant? Not necessarily an accurate guide but wiki says that they were both Leader of the Opposition. But not leader of the Labour Party.

    The Queen doesn’t appoint people to be PM on a temporary basis.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Good morning, everyone.

    Once travel is enabled, we should send a delegation to South Korea to learn everything we can about their response, and to invite them to send some of their people back to the UK to work with us on improving our approach should either this or another disease outbreak like it happen again.

    Agreed. There was one particular weekend: 21st-23rd February when everyone was politely ordered to remain indoors and they sprayed everywhere: literally a massive deep clean including huge lorries out on the streets. Daegu remained in a tighter lockdown but I'm sure that initial fast response helped quell the spread and meant they could adhere to social distancing (they are the country that invented the term) without lockdown.

    Much as I admire the zealous social media campaign to keep us all indoors, if you're wearing proper protective gear outdoors you are very unlikely to catch it.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    I think as much as we might like it to be Hancock or Sunak, it'd be Raab with everyone else staying in post. Boris really needs to rest.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    The PM is the PM. I don’t see that there can be any “acting” about it. The leadership of the Conservative Party is irrelevant.
    Yes, but it’s like Harman or Beckett’s leadership of the Labour Party. They were both, legally, the leader. However, it was understood that it was a temporary arrangement pending a leadership election. I don’t think Betfair paid out on any bets on Harman succeeding Miliband.
    Were they? Or was the post vacant? Not necessarily an accurate guide but wiki says that they were both Leader of the Opposition. But not leader of the Labour Party.

    The Queen doesn’t appoint people to be PM on a temporary basis.
    Under the constitution of the Labour Party, they were both leader. That has now changed (the words ‘pro tem’ have been added) but at the time they were the legal leader.

    It’s different in the Liberal Democrats who have a recognised office of Acting Leader.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    This is a very good article on interpreting the testing figures.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-case-counts-are-meaningless/

    Worth reading in full.

    ... Failure to account for testing strategies can also render comparisons between states and countries meaningless. According to two recent epidemiological studies, which tried to infer the true number of infected people from the reported number of deaths, there is roughly a 20-fold difference in case detection rates between the countries that are doing the best job of it, such as Norway and the worst job, such as the United Kingdom. (The United States is probably somewhere in the middle of the pack by this standard.) That means, for example, that in one country that reports 1,000 COVID-19 cases, there could actually be 5,000 infected people, and in another country that reports 1,000 cases, there might be 100,000!...

    ... There are quite a few things to look at here. The most obvious and probably the most important one is simply that a 15-day delay between when someone gets infected and when their case shows up in the data as a positive test makes a huge difference. Even if everything else was going perfectly — 100 percent of the population was being tested and the tests are 100 percent accurate — with an R of 2.6, a 15-day delay would result in there being about 18 times more newly infected people in the population than the number of newly reported positive tests at any given time....


    ...
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.

    Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...

    ...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.

    Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:

    For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):

    Kensington (9,162)
    Watford (4,890)
    Chipping Barnet (4,720)
    Warrington South (3,722)
    Truro and Falmouth (2,589)
    Southport (2,352)
    Wycombe (2,329)
    High Peak (2,160)
    Burnley (2,149)
    Rushcliffe (1,957)
    Bury South (1,913)
    North West Durham (1,687)
    Gedling (1,600)
    Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482)
    Delyn (1,481)

    There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.

    For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):

    Wimbledon (11,915)
    Cities of London and Westminster (7,671)
    Finchley and Golders Green (6,785)
    Carshalton and Wallington (5,452)
    South Cambridgeshire (4,899)
    Cheadle (4,515)
    Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064)
    Cheltenham (1,940)
    Winchester (1,738)
    Guildford (1,178)
    Hazel Grove (1,085)
    Lewes (749)
    Esher and Walton (95)

    These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.

    Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    “ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”

    This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought.
    Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.

    If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
    Somehow I knew it would be you raisin that question.
    They have bigger issues, currantly.
    You pipped me to that one.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    tlg86 said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
    Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    Not so much a technical deliberate fudge, as the consequence of an evolved unwritten constitution though. There are bits which rely on precedent from several centuries ago, other bits more recent. And not always guaranteed to to avoid an element of contradiction.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    Thank you for the answers, anyway. Pb at its best.

    I'm not sure I can ethically bring myself to bet on this one. When I ordered my protective gear in January I did think of buying up 200 masks at the same time at a tenner a piece (it's a good one) but couldn't bring myself to do it. Benefitting from other people's misfortune may be the American Dream (John Green) but I can't be so overt about it. And karma teaches me not to roll the dice with this virus.

    G'day to you all.

    xx
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,715
    tlg86 said:

    Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.

    Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...

    ...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.

    Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:

    For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):

    Kensington (9,162)
    Watford (4,890)
    Chipping Barnet (4,720)
    Warrington South (3,722)
    Truro and Falmouth (2,589)
    Southport (2,352)
    Wycombe (2,329)
    High Peak (2,160)
    Burnley (2,149)
    Rushcliffe (1,957)
    Bury South (1,913)
    North West Durham (1,687)
    Gedling (1,600)
    Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482)
    Delyn (1,481)

    There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.

    For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):

    Wimbledon (11,915)
    Cities of London and Westminster (7,671)
    Finchley and Golders Green (6,785)
    Carshalton and Wallington (5,452)
    South Cambridgeshire (4,899)
    Cheadle (4,515)
    Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064)
    Cheltenham (1,940)
    Winchester (1,738)
    Guildford (1,178)
    Hazel Grove (1,085)
    Lewes (749)
    Esher and Walton (95)

    These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.

    Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?

    What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
    The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
    Have you seen the original British version. ? The US copy is good but the British unbelievable good
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    How do you know he is working a lot , one or two video conferences cannot tell you that.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    .
    Maybe, maybe not. Is it perhaps actually an advantage that we have an officially designated successor, but not a legally determined one? There are pros and cons. Under another eg. US system the succession is automatic and the successor has total authority. But if they’re a dud...

    Anyone know what would happen in France?

  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,810
    ydoethur said:

    Stroud is a funny one. It’s actually a faded not quite ex industrial seat (Renishaws remains, plus one factory in Cam producing baize for snooker tables, but with the closure of Listers in Dursley that’s about it). So you would expect it to reflect the northern or north midlands marginals. However, because Stroud itself is on a good railway line to London and the other major urban areas (Cam and Dursley and Wotton) have excellent transport links to Bristol it has become a sort of upper-middle-class dormitory. Lots of wealthy professors trying to prove how much they care about the planet by driving their electric vehicles into Filton every day. That’s how it’s the headquarters of those nutters in Extinction Rebellion, for example.

    But that leaves Labour with some issues. All the weight and experience on the Left in the area goes with the Greens (even David Drew, while out of Parliament, sat as an independent councillor associated with the Greens). Meanwhile the older working class is walking away from Labour, as it is in the North. So it faces the classic dilemma it has across the country in microcosm - workers or middle classes? And you can’t have both, because the workers earn their living in things the middle classes believe should be got rid of.

    If I am honest, I think Labour were fortunate to regain Stroud in 2017 and it was partly because Neil Carmichael is Richard Burgon on speed. They may find it very hard to do so again. The coalition they would need just doesn’t cohere.

    I don't think the mix of quite strong somewheres and urban professionals, trending in opposite directions, in a single seat is that rare. My pointers that the W Yorks valleys were trending red over the last few years ultimately came to naught on the blue tide in 2019, but swings were relatively low. Looking at this interplay, and the balance of it, is key to enough seats to be interesting. This is the key interplay in Calder Valley (Con hold but they needn't bother by 2030), Colne Valley, Dewsbury (some of which spans Labour trending villages whose residents mostly wouldn't even know how or why they would ever need to drive to Dewsbury), High Peak, even Stalybridge & Hyde (where the red counter/underswing in the traditionally Tory Staley and Gee Cross/Werneth wards probably held off a Tory gain in a constituency that was said to have the highest proportion of manufacturing jobs in the UK 20 years ago).

    I'm sure we could go round the entire Peak District edge and Cheshire picking out a dozen seats with this interplay, seeing slightly less trendy post-industrial small places moving blue (Penistone & Stockbridge) and more trendy ones moving red (Staffs Moorlands would be a big ask for Labour, but I'd guess would trend red over time).

    And the point is, everywhere has a commutable rural edge where this mix will.exist and which to some extent is seeing a flight from towns.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I may give the British version a go then. I just have a fascination with American politics, having studied it. But that recommendation may propel me to watch the original. Michael Dobbs worked on both versions.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    How do you know he is working a lot , one or two video conferences cannot tell you that.
    I don’t. Although perhaps he shouldn’t be working at all. Of all the jobs I would think it’s difficult to “half do”. But if he is doing little and is getting a lot of rest, then good.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
    To be honest, it’s only a problem when the Tories are in government. However, this is of course most of the time!

    Labour has clear rules on what happen in those circumstances - the cabinet meet, nominate one of their number, and then advise the Sovereign to appoint that person. But the Tories’ rules on the leadership are very obscure, and tend to be about expediency than practicality.

    It should be noted though that the last time this was an issue, when Eden resigned in 1957, that is roughly the procedure they adopted themselves. However, to complicate matters Eden was on sick leave and had nominated Butler to chair the cabinet and effectively act as PM in his absence.

    It is a point that could do with clarifying. An addition to the Cabinet manual stating that the Cabinet immediately meet under a nominated office holder, listed in order by seniority of rank, or just the longest serving minister, to elect an interim successor would make things much easier.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
    Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
    I thought him a lightweight in last summers race, but he has been a better Health Secretary than I expected, and is far better than the other politicians at the press conferences. He actually responds to questions intelligently rather than defaulting to evasion and bluster.

    I don't think any Health Secretary has made it to PM since the NHS was created.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
    The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
    Of course it was. It had Ian Richardson in it. Compared to Ian Richardson Kevin Spacey is Chris Martin to Donald Bradman.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:
    Should she have got the job in the first place ?

    "Ms Sturgeon’s recent appointment of Catherine Calderwood as Scotland’s Chief Medical Officer has also come under fire because she is a “gynaecologist without a scientific background”."

    Meanwhile Scotland has a top expert who is sidelined for wrong thinking..

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262843/nicola-sturgeon-news-snp-scotland-coronavirus-hugh-pennington-coronavirus-uk-death-cases
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688


    Saw this yesterday. Fabulous isn't it? :smiley:
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.

    I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
    The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
    Of course it was. It had Ian Richardson in it. Compared to Ian Richardson Kevin Spacey is Chris Martin to Donald Bradman.
    Music better as well !
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    I doubt it. I think you listen too much, draw to many of the same conclusions as, EiT on how different realistic actions would have resulted in an ultimately different course. You overestimate the extent to which actions in South Korea/Japan etc could have been replicated here, and with same outcomes. And you assume that presumed Govt failings are a consequence of bad decision making as opposed to lack of capacity/availability. The end result would have still been lockdown (in this country as in most of Europe). And I think Hancock has greater confidence of NHS staff than he does (although that may be nonsense).
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    Not so much a technical deliberate fudge, as the consequence of an evolved unwritten constitution though. There are bits which rely on precedent from several centuries ago, other bits more recent. And not always guaranteed to to avoid an element of contradiction.
    more like a buggers muddle to me.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
    Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
    I thought him a lightweight in last summers race, but he has been a better Health Secretary than I expected, and is far better than the other politicians at the press conferences. He actually responds to questions intelligently rather than defaulting to evasion and bluster.

    I don't think any Health Secretary has made it to PM since the NHS was created.
    He just lies better than the other ones, still useless.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    alex_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    I doubt it. I think you listen too much, draw to many of the same conclusions as, EiT on how different realistic actions would have resulted in an ultimately different course. The end result would have still been lockdown (in this country as in most of Europe). And I think Hancock has greater confidence of NHS staff than he does (although that may be nonsense).
    Simply untrue.

    Europe was slow to react and enabled some really crass events to go ahead.

    Asian countries got their act together very fast because they have experience of this. Hong Kong was scarred by SARS and Singapore and South Korea were really quick out of the blocks.

    That's where Jeremy Hunt comes in. He was warning us long before the Government acted, and he really pissed off Cummings by doing so.

    Why was Jeremy Hunt so quick to spot this danger? Obviously he's very sharp but of course he has massive Asian connections: not only has his business enterprises been rooted there, he lived in Japan has a Chinese wife and speaks Mandarin.

    Hunt was shit hot compared to Johnson's characteristically blustering lazy approach in the early stages.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
    Crikey.

    Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?

    I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
    About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.

    Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
    Not so much a technical deliberate fudge, as the consequence of an evolved unwritten constitution though. There are bits which rely on precedent from several centuries ago, other bits more recent. And not always guaranteed to to avoid an element of contradiction.
    more like a buggers muddle to me.
    Morning Malc.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    alex_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    I have no medical experience and little idea of the progress of this disease. But do you think they should be getting worried that his symptoms are taking so long to improve? Should somebody not be ordering him to stop working, and actually rest properly?
    How do you know he is working a lot , one or two video conferences cannot tell you that.
    I don’t. Although perhaps he shouldn’t be working at all. Of all the jobs I would think it’s difficult to “half do”. But if he is doing little and is getting a lot of rest, then good.

    Most he will be doing is reading papers and taking phone calls/video calls. Not exactly breaking sweat and he has droves of minions to do the work. Hard to see it being much more taxing than reading a book or newspaper.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    And Alex, most Asian countries have avoided lockdown because of their approach. South Korea being a good example.

    We're so flaming arrogant in this country. All that shit Hancock spouted the other day about how we are trying to find a vaccine and a cure. Er, because no other countries are already doing that of course?

    We are a second-rate nation at best. Sorry. But true.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927


    I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    isam said:


    I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
    Absolutely!

    And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.

    You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
    Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
    I thought him a lightweight in last summers race, but he has been a better Health Secretary than I expected, and is far better than the other politicians at the press conferences. He actually responds to questions intelligently rather than defaulting to evasion and bluster.

    I don't think any Health Secretary has made it to PM since the NHS was created.
    He just lies better than the other ones, still useless.
    malcy, have you maybe tried sliding out the bottom of the bed? Cuz it seems neither side of the bed is the right one for you to get out of.....
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    You seem like the obsessive here.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:


    I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
    Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    You seem like the obsessive here.
    Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Hancock - without a leadership contest.
    Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
    I thought him a lightweight in last summers race, but he has been a better Health Secretary than I expected, and is far better than the other politicians at the press conferences. He actually responds to questions intelligently rather than defaulting to evasion and bluster.

    I don't think any Health Secretary has made it to PM since the NHS was created.
    I think you’re right. Neville Chamberlain is the only one I can think of at any point, in fact.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    You seem like the obsessive here.
    I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have fought off the Piers Morgan led shrieks for lockdown and we would be Sweden over the channel with schools and work carrying on.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,349

    isam said:


    I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
    Absolutely!

    And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.

    You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
    Of course if one does it they will all want to do it and then social distancing breaks down. Brighton was v bad yesterday so i am told.. these people risk infecting or geing infected. Simples. Stay at home save lives.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Good morning, all

    "precedents are made to be set" just doesn't look right.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    You seem like the obsessive here.
    I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have
    Well obviously you haven't seen evidence. He wasn't PM or in office. What kind of an argument is that? ;)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611

    My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients

    Though elsewhere in the country:
    BBC News - Coronavirus: The NHS workers wearing bin bags as protection
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52145140

    The misery is not evenly spread.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    I doubt it. I think you listen too much, draw to many of the same conclusions as, EiT on how different realistic actions would have resulted in an ultimately different course. The end result would have still been lockdown (in this country as in most of Europe). And I think Hancock has greater confidence of NHS staff than he does (although that may be nonsense).
    Simply untrue.

    Europe was slow to react and enabled some really crass events to go ahead.

    Asian countries got their act together very fast because they have experience of this. Hong Kong was scarred by SARS and Singapore and South Korea were really quick out of the blocks.

    That's where Jeremy Hunt comes in. He was warning us long before the Government acted, and he really pissed off Cummings by doing so.
    .
    But that’s the point. The Govt’s had experience of SARS. But so did the people. They were likely far more responsive to the message. They also probably had better and more reliable intelligence from China.

    I’m not saying that Hunt’s instincts mightn’t have been better. And he might not have taken better decisions if he had been in a position to do so. But I still think we would have ended up in the same place (lockdown). Like most of the rest of the world, some of which are still quite possibly unaffected enough to pursue a different course.

  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients

    Wow. I've heard some rumours to that effect around where I live. There are allegedly 200 cases in total in Devon and I heard that A&E has been empty because people don't want to go near hospitals ...
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    isam said:


    I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
    Absolutely!

    And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.

    You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
    . Brighton was v bad yesterday so i am told..
    No it wasn't.

    It was fake news using footage from last August. In fact it spawned some very funny memes last night on twitter.

    If you go somewhere remote and don't go near people you're not a virus vector.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients

    Wow. I've heard some rumours to that effect around where I live. There are allegedly 200 cases in total in Devon and I heard that A&E has been empty because people don't want to go near hospitals ...
    Yesterday my daughter reported 170+ empty beds at Bournemouth hospital
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    You seem like the obsessive here.
    I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have
    Well obviously you haven't seen evidence. He wasn't PM or in office. What kind of an argument is that? ;)
    So your assertion that he would have avoided a lockdown if PM is a whimsical dream based on prejudice ?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.

    Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?

    (Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)

    Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.

    It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).

    This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
    Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.

    By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
    I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
    Thank you. That's very helpful.

    There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
    Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.

    Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
    Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
    As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.

    He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
    Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.

    Some wounds wont heal..
    Of course now that we have Got Brexit Done, that consideration is obsolete. Hunt is head and shoulders above anyone on the Government front bench, not that that is a very high bar.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.

    There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.

    For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.

    I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients

    Though elsewhere in the country:
    BBC News - Coronavirus: The NHS workers wearing bin bags as protection
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52145140

    The misery is not evenly spread.
    This is the problem. Ideally lockdowns and responses to Coronavirus would be localised not national. But experience of Italy and Spain makes that impossible. Lockdown London and leave Devon operating as normal, and London decamps.
This discussion has been closed.